View Full Version : Snakes on the AT?
Todd Kirkendol
01-29-2005, 11:08
Call me Indiana Jones, but how many of you that have thru-hiked have actually encountered snakes? I know snakes wont bother us if we dont bother them, but how likely is it for a thru-hiker to "accidentally" step on a Copperhead or Rattlesnake? Are snake-proof gaiters an over kill? I have heard that the trail is pretty clear of "Mr. No Shoulders," but hikers should be careful going into the brush to do their business. Any personal stories? Thanks.
You don't have to be a thru hiker to encounter snakes. They are there and plenty of them but in the 35 years of hiking the AT I have never stepped on one. Did set up my tent up once a couple of years ago and a short time later found a timber rattler about 3 foot from my tent and another one about 15 foot from my tent. Strange but I did not see them while setting up camp. They did not bother me and with a stick the closest one was moved further away. I have never even considered snake proof gaiters. They are not a worry.
I have seen a black snake on the trail a few times. They tend to like sunny spots on the foot path. Never have seen any other (Copperhead or Rattlesnake) right on the AT. Now get off the trail and down in some rough spots or on a creek bank and chances are you might be in for a surprise. Last year my dog saw a black snake 10 feet up the trail before we got close to it. We passed by with no disturbance. Turned and looked back at the snake, still there basking in the sunlight.
Happy Trails,
Chip :)
Here are photos of 4 species that I saw on my hike in 2000.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/3242/size/big/sort/3/cat/500
http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/3216/size/big/sort/3/cat/500
http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/3858/size/big/sort/3/cat/500
If you leave them alone, they won't hurt you.
oldfivetango
01-29-2005, 11:41
Greetings All,
Ok- you asked for a snake story and here's mine.The only snake I ever
stepped on was in my driveway! Before you think I'm a blind idiot you need to hear the details.I go to fetch the garbage can back from the street.I rock the can back and turn it to take off back towards the house.All of the sudden my right foot comes down on something really spongy that feels like a hose and I do not even have to wonder what it was- I instinctively KNEW what it was.
It was a common black snake that had climbed up into the little recess above the axle on the bottom of the can to get warm in the morning sun.I am sure he was quite comfy until I came along and ruined his day!The important thing was that neither of us suffered any ill effects as he did not bite and I got off him as soon as something "didn't feel quite right".
Ok,Ok I realize that this is of mostly absolutely no value for someone out on the trail except for the fact that if your foot comes down on something "spongy"-pick it up quick! I may be a newbie to the trail community but have spent years in the woods.I have worn the leggings and snake boots mostly for tick protection-i have never gotten seed ticks when wearing leg cover.I will wear the gaiters in the summer-at my age you don't care how you look to the "in" crowd by the way.A cap or hat goes a long way toward keeping the big deadly dog tick off your scalp as well.I use deet on clothing only-hats,socks,shoes etc-that stuff will eat leather and plastic so be careful with it.
I think something can be said for using the lightest footwear you can get away with-not only for the weight issue but for the sensitivity you may have at a critical moment.If your body weight comes down on "Mr.No Shoulders" what you think he is going to do.He is going to plead "self-defense" to the judge-that's what-can't say as I blame him.
In the end I would not wear snake leggings or boots for the same reason I would not carry my firearm-I would just rather die than carry the weight.
Alot can be said for hanging a bear bag,avoiding weird people,and watching where you put your foot down.Also,sometimes in summer you can smell a rattlesnake is what I have been told-has a goaty odor.Anyone else heard that or is it a wives tail?
Anyway-be careful and have a nice hike.
Cheers to all,
Oldfivetango:bse
orangebug
01-29-2005, 11:51
...Also,sometimes in summer you can smell a rattlesnake is what I have been told-has a goaty odor.Anyone else heard that or is it a wives tail?...That's no rattlesnake.
That's my ex-wife! :banana
Also,sometimes in summer you can smell a rattlesnake is what I have been told-has a goaty odor.Anyone else heard that or is it a wives tail?
I haven't heard or smelled that one, but the next time I smell a goat on the trail, I'll look around for sure. Copperheads can smell like a cucumber, but not always. This I know from experience.
Rain Man
01-29-2005, 11:52
I hiked the AT in GA in a July and August. Saw a variety of snakes every day. Not a one of them was doing anything but trying to get away from us.
You don't sound like one of the kooks, but those with irrational fears of snakes simply have a phobia. How's that for stating a redundant obvious? LOL
I took two teenage boys. On one mountain top (Big Cedar perhaps), one of the boys climbed down the huge slabs of rock there as we sunned after lunch. On the way back up, he grabbed a ledge and pulled up till his face was there. In front of his nose was a copperhead. Here's a pic of it--
http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1327/sort/1/cat/500/page/1
Actually, it was about a yard away and no real danger to him, but it was an exciting find.
Frankly, I'd rather have snakes than the real "danger," -- mice, which make no effort to get away from you, but just the opposite.
:sun
Rain Man
.
Todd Kirkendol
01-29-2005, 12:14
I am from the swampy bottoms of West Tennessee. Though we dont have may Rattlesnakes down this way, we do have an abudence on Copperheads and Cotton Mouths. The Cotton Mouth is known for it's aggresive behavior. Dont know if there are any of this species on the AT, but I have always heard that you can smell them before you see them. On hot summer days they smell like fresh cut watermelon.
Yeah, snakes.
One when I was a kid, about thirteen I think, I slipped my bare feet into my rubber boots I had left out on our patio. There was a garter snake in the right boot. I cannot really say which of us freaked the most, but I never felt quite the same way about rubber boots. To this day I refuse to hike in themhttp://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif
Smile
Nothing to be concerned about if you're making the usual amount of hiker noise and commotion. They're aware of you before you're aware of them. My wife came within 3 feet of this specimen. He rattled, and that froze us instantly.
Timber Rattler (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1468/size/big/sort/1/cat/500 )
Timber Rattler (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1469/size/big/sort/1/cat/500)
Jack Tarlin
01-29-2005, 13:49
Todd---
To directly answer your question, you have an excellent chance of encountering poisonous snakes on the A.T., tho your chances of actually stepping on one are rather small; they generally know when someone is coming, tho this is certainly not always the case.
Some quick snake advice/comments:
*In my experience, you are likeliest to encounter rattlers in Pennsylvania, especially in the first few days after Duncannon. This is a REALLY lousy place to hike with a radio or Walkman.
*Copperheads are fond of water as they like to eat fish, frogs, and other samll water creatures. Avoid camping too close to streams. In my experience, I've encountered copperheads most often in central and Northern Virginia
*Timber rattlers and Copperheads generally don't travel far from their birth dens; most scientists seem to think they don't go more than a mile to a mile and a half from where they were born, so if you see a rattler on or near the Trail, be aware that he probably lives very close by, so you might want to hike on a bit before setting up camp. Plus, both rattlers and copperheads are family oriented and like to den with relatives, so if you see a single member of either species, there's an excellent chance that his pals are quite close by, so be on alert and keep on hiking for a bit. I've seen as many as seven in one day in central PA.
*Poisonous snakes generally want nothing to do with you; they have enough sense to know that you're not food and they don't want to waste their limited venom on something they can't eat. (And in fact, many bites from poisonous snakes don't result in envenomation; apparently, they're really selective about letting the poison out; it's almost as if they know their supply is limited and don't want to waste it).
*Nearly all bites result in fools either teasing, or more likely, attempting to handle or pick up a poisonous snake. I know that sounds really stupid ("Hey, Marge, watch me pick up this venomous reptile!") but it happens all the time. The best thing to do if you're lucky enough to encounter one of these beautiful creatures is keep your distance, take a picture or two, and move on. You might---repeat might---want to gently lift the snake off the Trail, especially if you know there are other hikers just behind you, or you might want to re-trace your steps thirty or forty feet and leave a small note on the Trail warning folks what possibly lies just ahead. This is a particularly kind thing to do if you know there's someone behind you hiking with a dog. And if you know for sure that there are folks immediately behind you, you might want to wait a few minutes til they arrive and warn them in person.
*Never harm, or God forbid, kill a poisonous (or for that matter, any) snake. In many cases it's highly illegal, and in all cases, is simply wrong. You are a visitor in this animal's home, and have no more right to take it's life than if a guy entered your home in the afternoon and proceeded to kill you. These are really wonderful creatures, and they demand and deserve our respect and consideration, as well as our distance.
oldfivetango
01-29-2005, 16:38
In the midst of reading the snake advice thread I came upon a little idea.
Lets get the AT Conservancy to put a homeless boa at each of the shelters.
Presto-no more mice!
Cheers to all,
Oldfivetango:bse
In the midst of reading the snake advice thread I came upon a little idea.
Lets get the AT Conservancy to put a homeless boa at each of the shelters.
Presto-no more mice!
Cheers to all,
Oldfivetango:bse
Obviously you have never stopped at that shelter in Northern Virginia with the copperheads in residence.
Critterman
01-29-2005, 18:25
I was day hiking on the AT last june in penn. just north of the maryland line and amost stepped on a timber rattler lying on the trail. He never rattled and was completely unconcerned about me. I went around him but thought best to move him off the trail. I tossed rocks in his direction with out result and finally landed one on him. He moved off trail but never rattled.
I bet for every snake I have seen on the trail, I've hiked over or beside three+ more I didn't see. Easy 95+ % of the snakes I've seen while hiking were non-poisonous. Almost sat on a garter snake a few years back. Heard a rattler last year and did not stop to investigate. Now year before last, a different situation:
Hiking alone, great day, about time for a snack and a dump so was looking for that perfect multipurpose "area". Found a wonderful rest rock off the trail, with a wasteland of dead fall tree remnants (the kinda place nobody in their right mind ever goes on purpose) maybe 150 feet off the trail (perfect I thought).
I carefully navigated into the midst of the deadfall and spotted the perfect "three way cross" of limb for a seat. As I was about to swing a leg over the last log in the way, I heard Mr. (or Mrs?) rattlesnake. As I put that foot back down on "this" side of the log, I heard it again. I stepped back and realized there was a big gap between log & ground, so snake had easy access to me feetz. Let's just say: 1) I was a few seconds from squatting very near a rattlesnake 2) I went ahead a couple of miles before picking a safer site.
After getting back a few feet (and looking very close for more) all I could do was laugh, thinking about that old joke. You know the one.
Anyways. My bad. His place. I shoulda known better.
Atop Cold Mountain in VA, friends and I were stopping for lunch on a huge rock in a fairly clear field. A huge rattlesnake came from under that truck-sized rock we were using for our picnic table. He was over 3 ft. long, probably closer to 4 ft. He wasn't the only rattler that came out, there were several others. This monster wouldn't move on and he wouldn't go back under. The potential danger was that someone could easily have stepped on him because he was in an area that was kind of odd for a snake. As mentioned somewhere above, if you don't surprise a snake you won't have a problem, they will get away given a chance. I personally don't think snake chaps are worthwhile for the trail. You kind of train yourself to spot them. About the odor mentioned, I do know that a black snake emits a musty odor, and I think most all snakes probably do. Maybe "goaty" is a pretty good description. I know about black ones from first-hand experience. I was remodeling a house and had a wall open to the outside. As I entered the house with some tools, I saw a black snake headed under the oven. I had to grab him with my hands and a pair of vice-grips to keep him from disappearing into the house. As I wrestled to pull him back, there was a very distinct pungent odor. It was really hard to pull him backwards too, like pulling against the grain.
WalkinHome
01-29-2005, 19:35
Seems to me if you can smell a snake, YOU ARE TOO CLOSE!. IMHO, all snakes have the right of way. As Jack says, we are in their home. Be safe.
He rattled, and that froze us instantly.
Amazing how those instincts that we humans have buried suddenly come to life. I was merrily hiking along on the trail last year when I suddenly froze and didn't even know why until I spotted the rattler about 20 feet ahead of me. He hadn't even rattled. Pure instinct.
I have a set of short snake proof gaiters but wouldn't think of hiking with them, way too heavy. I have smelled both snakes and their eggs. b.t.w., copperheads give birth to live young, most others lay eggs. "Chicken" snake eggs really smell. Copperhead's must give off a scent when surprised or messed with but I don't recall smelling one that I just happened to see at a reasonable distance and didn't poke at.
I know it's not proper to kill a poisonous snake but my first reaction is to find a rock/stick and smash it's big head in. I was raised this way. Let the non-poisonous ones go and smash the copperheads, cottonmouths and rattlesnakes.
I don't recall intentionally killing any, oh, in about 10 years though. Last time was in our yard near Spring Texas, 6 copperheads over about 3 months. I was at war and our kids were small then. I used to see them all the time riding mountain bikes around there and they were not bashful. No warning, no slithering away, they usually held their ground and didn't warn anything. Blended in really well in the pine needles......
While researching family history here in Tennessee, I checked old newspapers (as far back as I could find them) and discovered it very common and frequent for children to have been bitten by copperheads during the hot weeks of late summer, early fall. Some years, every week would have several reports of copperhead bite but NO report of death that I found. I understand it's painful and the bite area will rot away but I am not aware of many deaths from this sorta bite.
There are three flavors of copperhead in North America. I think they all have about the same attitudes and habits and don't look too dissimilar. Usually never exceed about 3 feet in length but can get a bit flabby if well fed. Young ones sometimes have blue/bluegreen tails and seem darker than their parents. I'm not sure the details but they must have darker and lighter "phases" depending on things like when they last shed, eating habits and age. I have heard they taste good if properly prepared but i don't want to try.
My friend and I found this timber rattler (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4001/sort/1/cat/500/page/1) just a few miles into our first overnighter on the AT. Seems like you'll be likely to see some poisonous snakes on a thru, but I'm not sure how much real danger there is of being bitten.
orangebug
01-29-2005, 21:23
Copperheads are a dangerous bite to children and elderly folks. Not much of a problem to the bulk of us, except that we would be pretty sick for a few days.
Rattlers are a whole nother business. They can kill, cause amputations and make the victim extremely ill. There is a tendency for rattle snake victims to be young males with elevated serum ethanol levels. Their behavior often results in multiple bites, while other rattlesnake bites of humans are about 50% "dry."
Leave snakes alone, especially around shelters. I was reading in JAMA of two deaths in WV last year from hantavirus, from handling mice in forest and a rural cabin. I much prefer any snake bite to hantavirus.
saimyoji
01-30-2005, 00:42
Just thought I'd add that in a pinch, even venomous snakes are ok to eat, just cleanly remove their head and stomach. Though venomous, they are not poisonous. The perfect survival food. :bse
Timberwolf
01-30-2005, 01:34
Your chances of being bitten are 100 fold if you try to handle them. The musk smell they emit is another warning mechanism. Some species like the hogged nose snake can be just plane fowl (they also play dead when disturbed and the smell helps with the whole dead thing). Remember, most animals on the trail have a very evolved sense of smell which aids in detecting danger as well as food. Scents are just another form of communication that says "dont touch" or "stay away". I would say that some snakes emit a stinky dirty foot smell but that wouldn't be any help to a hiker. Ill go with "goaty"
Timberwolf
01-30-2005, 01:42
Also, Please never injure or kill a snake of any kind. They are soooo detrimental to ecobalence that one snake loss damages the entire species reproductive survival. BTW real nice pick on the entwined snakes Lobo.
saimyoji
01-30-2005, 01:46
NOTE: Hognose snake is NOT venomous. The only venomous snakes here in PA are the Copperhead and Timber Rattler. Unless they've been released by irresponsible pet owners....
Todd---
*In my experience, you are likeliest to encounter rattlers in Pennsylvania, especially in the first few days after Duncannon. This is a REALLY lousy place to hike with a radio or Walkman.
Yes, I have a "phobia" when it comes to snakes as mentioned here. At first sighting, I freak out, jump, and land 2 miles away. But, I "deal with it" and it doesn't keep me off the trail.
*Pennsylvania" - Yes...! In the '70's I hiked the Del. Water Gap to the PA TPK many times and there was a sign: "Entering Rattlesnake Gap" In that 1 - 2 mile stretch I would see 15 - 20 snakes sunning themselves and it was totally nerve wracking - FOR ME!
No gaiters - Will NOT kill them - Never been bit - I ***DO*** use my staff to "reach over" (prod) the other side of big limbs & rocks before stepping over them.
Finally, I carry some "Snake Bite Medicine" (Jack!). In all these years, I haven't been bitten; so, it MUST work...<g>...!
NOTE: Hognose snake is NOT venomous. The only venomous snakes here in PA are the Copperhead and Timber Rattler. Unless they've been released by irresponsible pet owners....
The 3rd poisonous snake found in PA is the Eastern Massasauga, a small rattlesnake that grows to be about 20-30 inches long. It is an endangered species and is only found in 6 counties in the westcentral section of the state.
Kerosene
01-30-2005, 11:16
Obviously you have never stopped at that shelter in Northern Virginia with the copperheads in residence.That would be the Manassas Gap Shelter, 10.7 miles north of Front Royal. There used to be copperheads underneath the shelter and a gigantic wood rat in the rafters. I had the "pleasure" of spending the night keeping an eye on the wood rat in September 2001. Since that time, I understand that trail club has eliminated the concrete "sunning area" and closed up the holes to keep the snakes away, and I haven't heard recent reports about the rat. Otherwise it was a pretty nice shelter with a lovely spring.
Rain Man
01-30-2005, 11:27
That would be the Manassas Gap Shelter, 10.7 miles north of Front Royal. There used to be copperheads underneath the shelter and a gigantic wood rat in the rafters. I had the "pleasure" of spending the night keeping an eye on the wood rat in September 2001. Since that time, I understand that trail club has eliminated the concrete "sunning area" and closed up the holes to keep the snakes away, and I haven't heard recent reports about the rat. Otherwise it was a pretty nice shelter with a lovely spring.
Thus, another example of how reports are passed along as current truth, when they aren't. This snake phobia just controls some people, and they then have to go out of their way to justify it. Thankfully, people are beginning to come around to intelligence, fact, and judgment, in spite of being undoubtedly scared.
:sun
Rain Man
.
saimyoji
01-30-2005, 13:59
The 3rd poisonous snake found in PA is the Eastern Massasauga, a small rattlesnake that grows to be about 20-30 inches long. It is an endangered species and is only found in 6 counties in the westcentral section of the state.
...thanks for reminding me. :)