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medic mullins
05-26-2011, 09:42
What else other then deet works ?

Surplusman
05-26-2011, 09:52
Supposedly Sawyer SP544 20% Picaridin works as well as DEET but without some of the drawbacks, like melting plastic.

I don't know from personal experience, though. But I am going to try it out on my next hike.

medic mullins
05-26-2011, 10:11
your the second person who said that to me im on trailo in leaving a town hmm i wonder where i can buy it

mister krabs
05-26-2011, 10:15
Repel also has a picardin 20% spray, Repel sportsman.

medic mullins
05-26-2011, 10:18
mister knabs always there with good help !!thanks

Snowleopard
05-26-2011, 10:30
I've been avoiding insect repellents on my body by using permethrin on my clothes with a permethrin treated caped cap. When the bugs are bad, a full bug suit is the best, or at least a headnet.

There is a new DEET product that goes on your clothes and lasts 6 weeks, http://www.rei.com/product/815046/3m-ultrathon-clothing-and-gear-insect-repellent

medic mullins
05-26-2011, 10:45
i also use a bug neet my doctors says he think deet cause cancer

what kind of hat do u use ?

mister krabs
05-26-2011, 11:04
mister knabs always there with good help !!thanks


Ha! Thanks, but not so much most of the time, just bored and good at google. :D

Here's what I would have posted if I was being my normal smartass self.

picardin spray (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=20%25+picardin)

:banana

Snowleopard
05-26-2011, 11:07
My hat is like this one:
http://www.rei.com/product/708136/exofficio-insect-shield-cape-hat
It is kind of warm when the cape is down, but I like it better than headnets. I'm going to try experimenting with better ventilated hats plus netting (maybe a netting cape). Usually, black flies and mosquitos don't come all the way in to my face with this hat. This has worked in what I'd describe as moderately bad mosquitos and black flies. When they're really bad, a full head net and gloves is best.

There is no perfect solution. I doubt that permethrin and deet are totally safe, and picaridin is less effective. On the other hand, Lyme disease is getting common here and mosquito borne diseases are becoming more common; I'm most concerned about Lyme. I know one person in the Boston suburbs who has had Lyme a couple times. So, my choice is long pants, long sleeve shirt, caped hat or bugnet, all treated with permethrin, and if things get bad enough I'll use deet on exposed skin. If you really want to avoid chemicals, you could use the original bugsuit: http://www.bugjacket.com/ I think you'd have to treat the pants and socks with deet or permethrin to keep ticks out.

medic mullins
05-26-2011, 11:20
Mister knabs=every post you make = me laughing my head off and you also know you stuff well

snowlepord , im really worried about lyme too you have some great ideas ,and thanks for the help you should try out the columbia omni cool hat it has neting if you want u can pm and i can mail you my mine i used it twice , u can have it for free , i found that i just like my bug net with no hat cause of heat but i did need sun protection i curently got a or gortex hat but it seem to hold in the heat as well how ever bugs seem to staty away from it >?

Stray dog
05-26-2011, 13:18
It is not a spray, but wild thyme works like magic against mosquitos and black flies.

Surplusman
05-26-2011, 13:36
Adding to what I posted earlier, apparently 20% picaridin is what you want, not the 10% stuff. I know that the 10% really doesn't work that well. I used it when working on a grounds crew here in western MA.

One other repellent you could try, if you're really daring, is Old Time Woodsman's Fly Dope. This stuff, in one form or another, has been around since the 1880's. I also used it against black flies, mosquitoes, and other assorted little nasties, and it worked for me very well. It's basically made from pine tar, castor oil, and pennyroyal oil. The biggest drawback is its "scent." It's hard to describe, but once you've gotten even a whiff it, you'll never forget it.

http://www.predatorpee.com/old_woodsman.html

medic mullins
05-26-2011, 13:36
stray dog thank you im looking into that now

medic mullins
05-26-2011, 13:38
surplus thanks man my nana swears by that stuf i wonder if its safe for dogs

hikerboy57
05-26-2011, 13:42
Adding to what I posted earlier, apparently 20% picaridin is what you want, not the 10% stuff. I know that the 10% really doesn't work that well. I used it when working on a grounds crew here in western MA.

One other repellent you could try, if you're really daring, is Old Time Woodsman's Fly Dope. This stuff, in one form or another, has been around since the 1880's. I also used it against black flies, mosquitoes, and other assorted little nasties, and it worked for me very well. It's basically made from pine tar, castor oil, and pennyroyal oil. The biggest drawback is its "scent." It's hard to describe, but once you've gotten even a whiff it, you'll never forget it.

http://www.predatorpee.com/old_woodsman.html
JEEZ, I remember that stuff from the seventies. the smell repels all life forms.And for me it didnt even work(mid June NH)

medic mullins
05-26-2011, 13:45
really hikerboyz hmm now im lost cause some else here just said the same thing you did .................hmmm i like the the thyme one the best its seems like its safe

long island bob
05-26-2011, 13:52
I've used Sassafras leaves (tucked under my ehad band or attached to my pack straps.

It's not as effective as maxi-deet but it works as well as the diluted Deet you most often find in stores.

Blissful
05-26-2011, 13:55
I used natural stuff in '07 on the AT in MD around this time of year, ended up with a nice assortment of deerfliy bites. Or the mass of insects that follow you like a cloud in MA
And try wearing full clothed gear sprayed with permethrin though in 100% humidity with 90 degree temps like have now in VA. I mean I am all for it, but in this kind of hot weather, you have to have skin protection or melt in sweat filled clothes. Esp in tick infested areas.

DEET all the way. No issues

And everything causes cancer...

Jersey Tim
05-26-2011, 14:12
This might sound like tree-hugger BS, but I've had good luck recently with something called BioUD, which I got as a freebie this spring. The label says the active ingredient is undecanone, which I had never heard of, so I looked into it and apparently it's some kind of natural repellent discovered at NC State. (Yes, "natural repellent" was a red flag for me too, but I gave it a shot anyway.) I don't know what the research looks like, but I did find one study claiming positive results that I'll link below. Beyond that, all I can say it that it's actually worked really well for me so far this year vs. mosquitoes and ticks.

http://www.ajtmh.org/content/81/4/685.abstract

medic mullins
05-26-2011, 14:13
Blissfull i like that post its so true what does not cause cancer ,,,,,,that sasphers plant does it smell like fruity pebbles ?

medic mullins
05-26-2011, 14:14
jersey time how do i get that free sample ?

WingedMonkey
05-26-2011, 14:51
Adding to what I posted earlier, apparently 20% picaridin is what you want, not the 10% stuff. I know that the 10% really doesn't work that well. I used it when working on a grounds crew here in western MA.

Just to add a note that Picaridin is also a man-made chemical.

woodsy
05-26-2011, 14:52
clay based mud works , get mudded up.

http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/insect-repellent/

Snowleopard
05-26-2011, 14:53
medic mullins, thanks for the hat offer, that's very generous. I already have a couple of similar hats so give it to somebody else.

Not all natural insect repellents are safe. I've had some of them trigger my asthma from 20' away; maybe they're fine for some but not for me. That's the main reason I avoid deet; I can probably get away with using a little bit but not slathering my body with it.

blissful said, "Or the mass of insects that follow you like a cloud in MA ..." That's what I call moderately bad. Really bad is when the mosquitos are unable to fight their way through the blackflies :( For the times when each person has their own cloud, a trick I learned from a book on canoeing in N. Canada: sidle up to another person and chat long enough for your clouds to merge; then jump away and leave your cloud with the other person.

and, "And try wearing full clothed gear sprayed with permethrin though in 100% humidity with 90 degree temps like have now in VA." Yes. :( :( I start to melt at 80deg and not humid, so I'm not happy with wearing all these clothes in summer.

Jersey Tim
05-26-2011, 16:13
jersey time how do i get that free sample ?
There was a table at Sam's Club giving away little ounce-size spray bottles in March. You could try writing to the company and seeing if they'll send you one to compare with more traditional stuff. Here's their link:

http://www.homs.com/

moshi
05-26-2011, 17:02
What else other then deet works ?

eucalyptus and rosemary oil.

When I do long distance (extended periods of time) I take high levels of B-Complex multi + additional B6 & B12.*

I begin increasing my levels about two weeks prior to my leaving and then continue with increased dosage during time of hike.*

*You should check with your physician before starting this regiment.

hikerboy57
05-26-2011, 17:12
the only things shown to be effective on ticks are DEET and permethin. B complex vitamins alter your body chemistry,make you smell bad to bugs(and hikers too) ive used them myself, and it does seem to keep flying insects away, but doesnt have any effect on ticks.I havent tried picaradin, so I cant tell you about that. And absolutely dont believe anything you hear about Avon skin so soft. Has no effect on mosquitoes, black flies, although most mosquitoes reported smoother skin.

birchy
05-26-2011, 17:17
Crushed Sassafrass leaves work but you have to refresh them often

LIhikers
05-26-2011, 20:32
My wife, who gets eaten alive by every kind of bug if she doesn't use something, has good luck with repelents that have eucalyptus oil as the main ingredient.

medic mullins
05-26-2011, 22:57
How about garlic ?Does it do anything ?

Chop
05-26-2011, 23:27
Interesting on the cancer comment by a doctor.

I have talked with my physician regarding this over the years. He has said that our absorption rate is not high enough to take in harmful amounts of deet.

We know lyme can kill. Deet is effective. I have had lyme before...don't want it again. I am treating clothes with permethrin and using deet on the exposed areas.

medic mullins
05-27-2011, 20:09
tonight the only thing working is deet

Hooch
05-27-2011, 20:31
I'm a recent convert to permethrin treating on my clothing. I swear by it now.


How about garlic ?Does it do anything ?
Keeps vampires away at the shelter after dark. :banana

Tinker
06-07-2011, 09:32
Try to remember that it is hazardous to aquatic life (the Sawyer bottle says EXTREMELY toxic to fish and aquatic organisms), and don't go swimming in clothing treated with it. A couple of years ago I almost forgot on a very hot day, and, realizing I didn't have a pair of untreated shorts in my pack I had to forgo taking a dip to cool off. Now I pack a pair of very unflattering (and untreated) running shorts just for that purpose.

Blissful
06-07-2011, 10:12
Try to remember that it is hazardous to aquatic life (the Sawyer bottle says EXTREMELY toxic to fish and aquatic organisms), and don't go swimming in clothing treated with it. A couple of years ago I almost forgot on a very hot day, and, realizing I didn't have a pair of untreated shorts in my pack I had to forgo taking a dip to cool off. Now I pack a pair of very unflattering (and untreated) running shorts just for that purpose.


This is a really great point as my hubby loves to take a dip. Thanks

garlic08
06-07-2011, 10:30
I am another satisfied non-Deet, permethrin on clothing, long sleeves, long trousers and wide-brim hat with head net hiker. Not a single tick on the AT with this system, and very few mosquito and black fly bites even in June in New England. I don't need sunscreen, either, even out here in the desert.

Using Permethrin bothers me a little, but not as much as DEET. My wife got some on her drinking tube once. Before the tube melted, she drank a little water through it and ended up with a racing pulse and shortness of breath for a couple of days. No more DEET for us.

virgil
06-07-2011, 10:33
I use a product made by Liquid Fence. It has all natural ingredients. I know it's a terrible name but they make a whole range of products. www.liquidfence.com (http://www.liquidfence.com). Their insect repellent product is named Liquid Net. It smells great and it works quite well. I've been using it for several years.