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Crazy Larry #1
05-27-2011, 10:39
Nature Boy Hiking was assaulted on the AT approximately two miles south of Waynesbore, Va on Monday night. He does not have a clue as to who did it. He was dragged out of his tent and beaten.

I bet someone here might know about what happened and If anyone has any info or questions about the incident you can contact Marc Cyr at 540-377-2270.

Elder
05-27-2011, 11:18
The COWARDS who did this probably found/followed him here or Facebook, etc.
Someone will know or suspect who did this.
Trash like this is not smart enough to not talk, or brag.
When the hiking community identifies the privy-scum, they better hike fast to the Law and confess...

or don't go into the deep dark woods..:eek:

here there be dragons...

k.reynolds70
05-27-2011, 11:57
Wait--two miles south of Waynesboro?

So he was just camped in the woods along the AT?
Or was he camped in Rockfish Gap around all those sketchy dilapidated buildings?

This is sad news for the hiking community and for Waynesboro, but just like the assault of the Gumm Brothers in Damascus not too long ago--it was probably local white trash giving the wonderful community of Waynesboro a bad name.

TOW--do you have any more info on this incident or where exactly it took place?

I hope that Nature Boy is alright and finds this a minor error in his hike, god bless him.

Hope swift action is found

ShelterLeopard
05-27-2011, 12:09
Wow. I can actually not believe this- this is terrible. Nature Boy, I hope you are okay.

long island bob
05-27-2011, 13:12
Is this the same nature boy who does all those 40-mile per day speed hikes?

Either way I wish him a speedy recovery.

MDFastPack
05-27-2011, 14:03
Sad that there are people like this, but I agree that it was most likely some local trash.

jersey joe
05-27-2011, 14:24
It happened around mile 846. It is the same guy doing big milage and going for the record.

k.reynolds70
05-27-2011, 14:38
Mile 846 is the Glass Hollow Overlook, a dry campsite north of Humpback Rocks.
There is another thread about him that on here, people are buzzing on it saying that the perpetrators called him by name, and knew where he was staying that night.
Someone suggested that other hikers did this. I have hope in humanity that other hikers didn't do this...

Carl in FL
05-27-2011, 15:17
What on earth would be a possible motivation to beat up on a hiker? I just don't get it.

Creek Dancer
05-27-2011, 15:29
Mile 846 is the Glass Hollow Overlook, a dry campsite north of Humpback Rocks.
There is another thread about him that on here, people are buzzing on it saying that the perpetrators called him by name, and knew where he was staying that night.
Someone suggested that other hikers did this. I have hope in humanity that other hikers didn't do this...

This location is rather close to the road. My guess is that it was not a hiker, but rather someone who could easily get in a car and leave the scene quickly. Pure speculation, of course.

I hope Nature Boy heals quickly.

Toolshed
05-27-2011, 15:31
Maybe we all chip in and build a reward pot to help find the scumbags responsible....

Del Q
05-27-2011, 15:45
If this was a "hiker" / hikers in this case, which I totally doubt, and I ran into them, they would be walking really funny with my Leki poles (yes, plural) up their butts, then staked to the ground, covered in honey and other hikers peanut butter, even the hungriest thru hikers would donate, and import army ants to have their way with them...............as sour as they would probably taste!

Carl in FL
05-27-2011, 15:56
No, please, let me send you a bucket or two of these fine fire ants we have here. People beg for death after a bite or two. Trust me.

TIDE-HSV
05-27-2011, 15:58
No, please, let me send you a bucket or two of these fine fire ants we have here. People beg for death after a bite or two. Trust me.
You have that right. Many years ago, a friend and I climbed the fence at the Bama golf course and fished out golf balls with our toes from the pond on the old ninth fairway. When I put my shorts back on, I found that I'd put them down on a mound of fire ants in the dark...

leaftye
05-27-2011, 16:11
If he was indeed called out by name, then there's some doubt in my mind that he's entirely innocent. I don't know this guy and I don't know the full story, so I'd like to find out more before passing judgement.

Mr Boston
05-27-2011, 16:15
I had read on FB that he was diagnosed with a concussion. He also had a CT scan and the results looked good, with time he should have a full recovery. His pace had him averaging about 40 miles per day. Let's hope hope Nature Boy can recover as fast as he hikes!

RGB
05-27-2011, 17:50
Probably some hick piece of *****. Someone whose life was so *****ty and uninteresting that they had to do this to make themselves feel better. This is why I never sleep within a mile of any road.

double d
05-27-2011, 18:06
Anyone who is attacked, especially a hiker in the total dark who can not defend themselves, needs justice to be done. I hope they find the attackers and they get long jail sentences. Time will tell, but the story seems somewhat odd because the attackers knew his name (is that the official report from Nature Boy?). Why that is needs to be understood, but Good luck to him.

long island bob
05-27-2011, 18:12
Anyone who is attacked, especially a hiker in the total dark who can not defend themselves, needs justice to be done. I hope they find the attackers and they get long jail sentences. Time will tell, but the story seems somewhat odd because the attackers knew his name (is that the official report from Nature Boy?). Why that is needs to be understood, but Good luck to him.


Well, if he was going for the record, there MIGHT have been some loal media reports about him.

99.9999% of all rural folks (northern or southern) are as good or better than their suburban and urban counterparts.

But I can imagine a few folks from "the other part" who heard about NB's attempt for the record, decided that "nature boy" must be a euphemism for "socilaist tree-hugging queer" and went to look for him.

long island bob
05-27-2011, 18:12
pardon the typing. There is no "edit" function on this forum is there?

Skidsteer
05-27-2011, 18:25
pardon the typing. There is no "edit" function on this forum is there?

There was no edit function in the old days until the "socilaist tree-hugging queers" demanded it. :D

J/K, you get edit privileges if you are a donating member (http://www.whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=donating_member).

sbhikes
05-27-2011, 18:29
You know, they could have used Nature Boy as an epithet not even knowing it was his name. I think this is really shocking.

RGB
05-27-2011, 18:31
Well, if he was going for the record, there MIGHT have been some loal media reports about him.

99.9999% of all rural folks (northern or southern) are as good or better than their suburban and urban counterparts.

But I can imagine a few folks from "the other part" who heard about NB's attempt for the record, decided that "nature boy" must be a euphemism for "socilaist tree-hugging queer" and went to look for him.

My sentiments exactly. For some reason just walking in the woods isn't as manly as walking in the woods, shooting something, and strapping it to your truck.

mweinstone
05-27-2011, 18:43
maby we can learn a bit from looking at this like this:
our hiker is okay and lives to chase the blaze amore

our hiker has become the undoing of evil if we catch them. good for many

our hiker is a good reflection of us. and reflects thehighest level of acheivment here

our hiker inspires year after year, many who only veiw from achair afar.

my joy is this hiker is of mine and i can call him bro.

Del Q
05-27-2011, 19:29
Agree on the never camp close to roads.........I have not done the math but my bet is on Willy / Nature Boy, my money says he will be back and walking in the next week.

Based on what he has done already, Virginia (short of the heat) is nice trail, he will ROCK AND RISE AGAIN!!!!!!

long island bob
05-27-2011, 19:54
There was no edit function in the old days until the "socilaist tree-hugging queers" demanded it. :D

J/K, you get edit privileges if you are a donating member (http://www.whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=donating_member).

Hmm, given my typing skills a donation might be a good investment,

long island bob
05-27-2011, 20:03
My sentiments exactly. For some reason just walking in the woods isn't as manly as walking in the woods, shooting something, and strapping it to your truck.


It's not that,
but you and I do not disagree a whole lot.

In general, country folk are good folk. I read Earl Shaffer's book (he was country folk) and he couldn't find a bad word to say about them.

I've read many version of Grandma Gatewood's story (she was country folk) and she never fhound a bad word to say about them.

I read Bill Bryson's books and I found it had
- 0% useful information
- 10% humor
- 90% attacks on country folks as idiot in-bred murderous red necks (he couldn't find a single country folk the liked until he passed the 100-mile wilderness.)
- the ONLY example (and I've read a fair number of books about hiking the AT) where a person went into the trip with one set of ideas, and learned absolutely zero along the way.
- Heck Brysin even thought that because Shafer wanted to remain "rural" after hiking the trail that THAT was some sort of evidence that hiking the AT makes people go insane. (Bryson really is that kind of a bigotted idiot.)



Alas I digress. I wish Nature Boy well and I am sorry to temporarily steer the topic.


GBNB

long island bob
05-27-2011, 20:04
Edit BB's "book" not "books"

Carl in FL
05-27-2011, 20:14
Hmm, given my typing skills a donation might be a good investment,

Way off topic but, given the vast knowledge and resources I found here, a
small contribution just seemed like the right thing to do. I didn't even know
there was an "editorial bonus".

Del Q
05-27-2011, 21:09
I have traveled most of the USA and a bit outside of our borders. I think that people are mostly good, that has been my experience, with 6,000,000,000 people rollicking around our globe, there are bound to be some serious problems.

JAK
05-27-2011, 21:10
Hmm, given my typing skills a donation might be a good investment,Donate if you can, but don't eidt.

Its a sign of weekness. They will cut you down.

Lugnut
05-27-2011, 21:24
Too bad you can't edit. You misspelled weakness! :D

Cookerhiker
05-27-2011, 21:28
Donate if you can, but don't eidt.

Its a sign of weekness. They will cut you down.


Too bad you can't edit. You misspelled weakness! :D

He also omitted the apostrophe: the contraction form of "it is" should be it's.

Lugnut
05-27-2011, 21:30
Bonus points for Cookerhiker. :banana

JAK
05-27-2011, 21:53
At least I spelled eidt correctly.

singing wind
05-27-2011, 22:05
I am so very sorry to hear this news.
Nature Boy ~ prayers for your recovery and a safe journey wherever you go...

RGB
05-27-2011, 22:44
It's not that,
but you and I do not disagree a whole lot.

In general, country folk are good folk. I read Earl Shaffer's book (he was country folk) and he couldn't find a bad word to say about them.

I've read many version of Grandma Gatewood's story (she was country folk) and she never fhound a bad word to say about them.

I read Bill Bryson's books and I found it had
- 0% useful information
- 10% humor
- 90% attacks on country folks as idiot in-bred murderous red necks (he couldn't find a single country folk the liked until he passed the 100-mile wilderness.)
- the ONLY example (and I've read a fair number of books about hiking the AT) where a person went into the trip with one set of ideas, and learned absolutely zero along the way.
- Heck Brysin even thought that because Shafer wanted to remain "rural" after hiking the trail that THAT was some sort of evidence that hiking the AT makes people go insane. (Bryson really is that kind of a bigotted idiot.)



Alas I digress. I wish Nature Boy well and I am sorry to temporarily steer the topic.


GBNB

Don't get me wrong, there a lot of good Southern folk and I've found great trail magic/helpful people in the NC/TN/VA area. It just seems to be a common theme recently what with the Damascus incident and now this. Last summer a couple of guys (good ol' boys, you could call them) drove out of the Watauga Lake parking lot and threw a couple of rocks at me while I was taking a break at a table. Wasn't surprised to see a Dixie flag sticker on their truck. Luckily, I was in too good of a mood to be bothered even by that kind of behavior. Let's just say there's a lot of people from this area that are not being very good representatives.

Reishi
05-28-2011, 08:36
As somebody who is just getting into hiking, this is nuts to read.

double d
05-28-2011, 09:48
This thread is about Nature Boy, but why is it whenever there is a violent felony in a rural setting do many folks here at WB defend rural people as 99% good or better then suburban-urban residence? Afraid of stereotypes, maybe? Certainly someone who lives in rural Vermont is usually much different (in terms of education, economic class and values) then someone who lives in rural Mississippi, but........who cares?

brill540
05-28-2011, 10:33
I would be afraid to attack a hiker. They all have knives and spears, and are in incredible shape.

RGB
05-28-2011, 11:57
This thread is about Nature Boy, but why is it whenever there is a violent felony in a rural setting do many folks here at WB defend rural people as 99% good or better then suburban-urban residence? Afraid of stereotypes, maybe? Certainly someone who lives in rural Vermont is usually much different (in terms of education, economic class and values) then someone who lives in rural Mississippi, but........who cares?

+1

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

chiefiepoo
05-28-2011, 11:59
Last summer a couple of guys (good ol' boys, you could call them) drove out of the Watauga Lake parking lot and threw a couple of rocks at me while I was taking a break at a table. Wasn't surprised to see a Dixie flag sticker on their truck. Luckily, I was in too good of a mood to be bothered even by that kind of behavior. Let's just say there's a lot of people from this area that are not being very good representatives.

Speaks to the nature of their character. Throwing rocks while they were running away.

tlap
05-28-2011, 12:18
This thread is about Nature Boy, but why is it whenever there is a violent felony in a rural setting do many folks here at WB defend rural people as 99% good or better then suburban-urban residence?

And if someone were beaten in the city, others would defend the good upstanding folks there.

Thugs are thugs. There may some variation in local accent and style of dress but they're all pitiful, hate-filled beings.

STICK
05-28-2011, 12:23
Certainly someone who lives in rural Vermont is usually much different (in terms of education, economic class and values) then someone who lives in rural Mississippi, but........who cares?


What is that supposed to mean... :)

WingedMonkey
05-28-2011, 12:31
Could one thread wonder so far on so many presumptions and theories? He got hurt? He's faking it? Hiker's did it? Rednecks did it? City folks would never hurt anyone? Country folk would never hurt any one? Your grammar sucks? Your spelling sucks?
Blah Blah Blah.
Is there some facts in here some where?
:-?

weary
05-28-2011, 14:06
Could one thread wonder so far on so many presumptions and theories? He got hurt? He's faking it? Hiker's did it? Rednecks did it? City folks would never hurt anyone? Country folk would never hurt any one? Your grammar sucks? Your spelling sucks?
Blah Blah Blah.
Is there some facts in here some where?
:-?
Sure. A guy who was attempting a "record" hike was hurt. The words he used to report his injuries are his words. Everything else is supposition.

10-K
05-28-2011, 14:47
Could one thread wonder so far on so many presumptions and theories? He got hurt? He's faking it? Hiker's did it? Rednecks did it? City folks would never hurt anyone? Country folk would never hurt any one? Your grammar sucks? Your spelling sucks?
Blah Blah Blah.
Is there some facts in here some where?
:-?

No.... not really.

But what else would we talk about? Thru hiker season is over and nobody needs us again until next year.

We're all alone.

ChinMusic
05-28-2011, 15:16
Could one thread wonder so far on so many presumptions and theories? He got hurt? He's faking it? Hiker's did it? Rednecks did it? City folks would never hurt anyone? Country folk would never hurt any one? Your grammar sucks? Your spelling sucks?
Blah Blah Blah.
Is there some facts in here some where?
:-?
Blah Blah Blah

jrwiesz
05-28-2011, 15:23
Blah Blah Blah

Listening to some Zep - Achillies Last Stand, it's all good! :sun

jesse
05-28-2011, 15:23
...Certainly someone who lives in rural Vermont is usually much different (in terms of education, economic class and values) then someone who lives in rural Mississippi...

Double d you are a moron.

jrwiesz
05-28-2011, 15:26
Double d you are a moron.

Question Mark? :sun

mweinstone
05-28-2011, 15:33
just got a call from nature . wants to know where its boy is. says it wont be doing any growing untill we give back the boy. says were all gonna die unless it resumes summer. says if we dont give back boy by breakfast, it will jump to winter and freeze us all to death with no summer squash. it also said if we dont hand over who did it to him north jersy becomes dessert .

jrwiesz
05-28-2011, 15:39
now it's clapton, rive of tears for NB :sun

long island bob
05-28-2011, 16:17
Don't get me wrong, there a lot of good Southern folk and I've found great trail magic/helpful people in the NC/TN/VA area. It just seems to be a common theme recently what with the Damascus incident and now this. Last summer a couple of guys (good ol' boys, you could call them) drove out of the Watauga Lake parking lot and threw a couple of rocks at me while I was taking a break at a table. Wasn't surprised to see a Dixie flag sticker on their truck. Luckily, I was in too good of a mood to be bothered even by that kind of behavior. Let's just say there's a lot of people from this area that are not being very good representatives.


I think of it this way:

New York City violent crime rates per 100,000 population:
Murder 5.6
Rape 9.9
Robbery 221.4
Assault 314.9
Total 552

Nassau county (NY suburb with $600,000 homes) violent crime rates per 100,000 population:
Murder 12
Rape 56
Robbery 613
Assault 638
Total 1,318

Waynesboro, VA violent crime rates per 100,000 population:
Murder 0
Rape 40.3
Robbery 90.1
Assault 165.8
Total 296.2

Staunton VA, violent crime rates per 100,000 population:
Murder 8.3
Rape 8.3
Robbery 29.1
Assault 83.1
Total 128.8

Yes this crime occurred in the rural south so, statistically, it is likely the perpetrators are rural Southerners

ButI find it hilarious (and sometimes bigotted) when some folks try to imply hicks are thugs. I realize that's not what YOU were trying to do, that's why I chose to reply to your post. (I don't come to this forum to be confrontational.)

Anyway I hope Nature Boy heals soon. I wish him well.

weary
05-28-2011, 18:41
Double d you are a moron.
Perhaps not. Maybe he's just ignorant about some things. Just as some country folks in every state are ignorant about some things. And just as many urban people in every state are ignorant about some things.

It's my observation that few in either class think being ignorant about some things is anything to worry about. Which is why I've always pushed, so far without success, for a broader range of discussion topics dealing with such matters on this and other internet sites.

mweinstone
05-28-2011, 18:57
us city folks are ignorant. you southerners are all cool. trust me. i know. you guys act normal, say thank you, open doors and dont shoot each other over snow shoveling a parking spot. us city folks eat garbage food, dont care about trees and vote for idiots. you country bumbkins dress comfy and sing songs and eat together. us yanks dress like freaks, talk like gangsters and hate everyone.

who wants to argue with that?

jrwiesz
05-28-2011, 19:00
...I've always pushed, so far without success, for a broader range of discussion topics dealing with such matters on this and other internet sites.

Have you visited here?

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/

There's discussions. :sun

Pedaling Fool
05-28-2011, 19:05
This thread is about Nature Boy, but why is it whenever there is a violent felony in a rural setting do many folks here at WB defend rural people as 99% good or better then suburban-urban residence?
The reason some feel compelled to defend rural people is because many feel the need to overreact when stories like this come up and as a result tend to paint all rural folks with a broad brush, probably not intentionally, but when you read many of the posts they are unfairly stereotyping.

Afraid of stereotypes, maybe? Certainly someone who lives in rural Vermont is usually much different (in terms of education, economic class and values) then someone who lives in rural Mississippi, but........who cares?
I just don't know what you mean by that.

Carl in FL
05-28-2011, 19:11
us city folks are ignorant. you southerners are all cool. trust me. i know. you guys act normal, say thank you, open doors and dont shoot each other over snow shoveling a parking spot. us city folks eat garbage food, dont care about trees and vote for idiots. you country bumbkins dress comfy and sing songs and eat together. us yanks dress like freaks, talk like gangsters and hate everyone.



What a great reason to hike SOBO. The further you travel toward the
south, the classier you get.


[Disclaimer: It's just a joke. I grew up north of Philly and then moved south. I still haven't found "normal"]

tigerpaw
05-28-2011, 19:17
So someone who is in rural Vermont would know the difference between "residence" and "residents"? How about someone from a suburban Chicago location?

The real question here should be, "Is NB ok and will he continue?"

leaftye
05-28-2011, 19:20
What a great reason to hike SOBO. The further you travel toward the south, the classier you get.

That's most true when hiking the PCT SOBO.

mweinstone
05-28-2011, 19:38
i can predict most things. hell i know thats nuts dont worry. but true. wanna try me?everything i ever said would happen, did. or will. i predicted years ago that computers would be replaced by the workers they replaced by nessesty one day. thats my single wildest predidtion. still waiting for that one. but i also predict stuff about how we hike. and it keeps comming true. i predict one day, these three things will be virtualy obsolete for use on thru hikes going north in spring:
tent floors
groundsheets
pack covers

because it lightens the load too much to denie and makes for a better time. we will lay under tarptents with our raincoat and plastic bag and food bag under us. crazy? yes.
but as to this threds topic, i predict southbounding, the correct direction our trail flows, will be heavily preferred for the reason that it avoids the troubles we see here year after year that are due to the crowd being a target for trouble. thin straggely streams of southbounders will have a better time by far. they allways have . but will more and more.

Lugnut
05-28-2011, 22:05
So someone who is in rural Vermont would know the difference between "residence" and "residents"? How about someone from a suburban Chicago location?

The real question here should be, "Is NB ok and will he continue?"

No he won't continue for now. According to his FB post he's headed home to Ohio to recuperate.

Feral Bill
05-28-2011, 22:07
What a great reason to hike SOBO. The further you travel toward the
south, the classier you get.


[Disclaimer: It's just a joke. I grew up north of Philly and then moved south. I still haven't found "normal"]

Not likely to find it here.

Best to NB

Winged
05-28-2011, 22:31
No he won't continue for now. According to his FB post he's headed home to Ohio to recuperate.

What a shame. Wish him a speedy recovery.

SassyWindsor
05-28-2011, 23:54
My solution is to stealth camp far away from trail access points coupled with a Walther PPK loaded with .380 hollow points, always at my fingertips, especially when in my tent.

Jonnycat
05-29-2011, 01:00
My solution is to stealth camp far away from trail access points coupled with a Walther PPK loaded with .380 hollow points, always at my fingertips, especially when in my tent.

http://i52.tinypic.com/ranmrl.jpg

txag
05-29-2011, 01:14
Because of the 007 association I wanted to buy a Walther PPK but after much further research decided to buy a Sig .380 instead. Evidentally the Walther will "draw blood" when fired more easily. I'm not thrilled with clearances on the Sig either. Get a light .38 revolver instead.

stranger
05-29-2011, 01:54
Can Samuel H. Gardner verify his whereabouts on the evening in question?

JAK
05-29-2011, 04:18
I know hindsight is 20/20,
but a few claymores and trip wires would have worked wonders.

mweinstone
05-29-2011, 05:12
that was the single coolest peice of a speed hike i ever saw.

Pedaling Fool
05-29-2011, 07:59
After all this time and posts I'm still fuzzy about the details, such as where exactly he was camped... But can anyone answer this one question: Did he report this crime?

skooch
05-29-2011, 08:20
should I be scared cause I kinda am now. I haven't told my husband about this incident yet.

jbwood5
05-29-2011, 08:41
After all this time and posts I'm still fuzzy about the details, such as where exactly he was camped... But can anyone answer this one question: Did he report this crime?

If he was on the AT corridor, there could end up being a Federal investigation. If he was in the hospital, there should have been a report filed, at least with the local authorities.

Just a couple of thoughts on this....

I question that he was actually called by name when the crime occurred. It was 1:00 AM in the morning and he was asleep in his tent. I suspect they were saying "hey there boy" or something like that. Nature Boy may have mistaken that for his name, thinking they were actually calling him by his trail name. He was probably not alert enough to hear clearly.

For the old timers that remember a bit about the trail corridor, the original property owners granted permission for the trail to cross their lands. Occasionally there was a problem, but rarely. Sometimes land changed hands or was passed down to a new generation and the new owners did not want the trail crossing their property. At sometime later (I'm going to guess early 1980's), the feds decided to guarantee that the trail corridor would be permanent and they began condemnation proceedings to take a 100 foot corridor across certain private lands. This created a lot of animosity between the property owners and hikers.

When I was hiking years ago, I would hear stories of these angry landowners harassing hikers by setting their dogs out, hanging fish line with hooks across the trail, dumping garbage on the trail, smashing car windows for those parked at trail heads, and personal attacks on hikers. The local authorities seemed to be more sympathetic toward the land owners than the hikers, so the harassment continued for a number of years. Parts of North Carolina and Tennessee seemed to be some of the worst areas.

Most of this harassment subsided in recent times, but some of the next generation of families still carry this hatred from hearing stories from their parents or neighbors. We still see a lot of vandalism of cars on Hwy 19E near Elk Park. If you ever stop there, you will see an inch of broken car glass window pieces around the parking area.

I'm guessing that Nature Boy was a victim of this harassment, probably by older teens or young adults who still think that hikers don't belong in the area. I really hope they can send a Federal Marshall out there to camp in the area a few nights and find these criminals. I have hiked through these areas a few times (usually solo) and have not had a problem, but I always had my guard up and chose not to tent camp until I got well north of the Elk Park area (closer to Dennis Cove).

Pedaling Fool
05-29-2011, 08:57
jbwood5, you didn't answer my question, but I'm ready for some more bloviating:)

jbwood5
05-29-2011, 08:57
After all this time and posts I'm still fuzzy about the details, such as where exactly he was camped... But can anyone answer this one question: Did he report this crime?


should I be scared cause I kinda am now. I haven't told my husband about this incident yet.

It is probably best not to mention it. Look in your guide book and try to see where this area is at. Camp near the shelters where there will be other people around. If you are near the area, try to walk through with other hikers (everyone will be thinking the same as you, so it should not be problem hiking with a group).

The first time I hiked in the area (starting solo), I was unaware of any previous history of angry landowners and other hikers filled me in. We actually had a group of 6 people who did not know each other until the day we went through the bad areas.

I really think you will have no problem and it should not be on your mind. Many years have passed since those old days and this is the first time I have heard of such an assault. There will be people looking to get these bad guys and they may be caught way before you get there.

Just John

double d
05-29-2011, 08:59
any update on Nature Boy? The old saying that all of us hear from time to time,"but what if someone attacks you while your sleeping in your tent" seems to hold true here with NB.

Pedaling Fool
05-29-2011, 09:02
any update on Nature Boy?
You should read before you post; he's headed back to Ohio;)

double d
05-29-2011, 09:05
You should read before you post; he's headed back to Ohio;)

You're correct, thanks John, I seemed to have missed that fact that NB is headed back to Ohio. Thats tough for him, sorry to hear he's headed back, thanks for the update John.

fiddlehead
05-29-2011, 09:15
.. But can anyone answer this one question: Did he report this crime?

He said he reported it to a ranger. I forget his name but he even gave his phone no. on his facebook and said if anyone has questions, they should talk to said ranger"

I imagine his head hurt too much to answer everyone's questions.

This is so sad.
I hope he comes back to hiking again.

leaftye
05-29-2011, 09:20
Can Samuel H. Gardner verify his whereabouts on the evening in question?

Yes.

___________

DapperD
05-29-2011, 09:43
If he was on the AT corridor, there could end up being a Federal investigation. If he was in the hospital, there should have been a report filed, at least with the local authorities.

Just a couple of thoughts on this....

I question that he was actually called by name when the crime occurred. It was 1:00 AM in the morning and he was asleep in his tent. I suspect they were saying "hey there boy" or something like that. Nature Boy may have mistaken that for his name, thinking they were actually calling him by his trail name. He was probably not alert enough to hear clearly.

For the old timers that remember a bit about the trail corridor, the original property owners granted permission for the trail to cross their lands. Occasionally there was a problem, but rarely. Sometimes land changed hands or was passed down to a new generation and the new owners did not want the trail crossing their property. At sometime later (I'm going to guess early 1980's), the feds decided to guarantee that the trail corridor would be permanent and they began condemnation proceedings to take a 100 foot corridor across certain private lands. This created a lot of animosity between the property owners and hikers.

When I was hiking years ago, I would hear stories of these angry landowners harassing hikers by setting their dogs out, hanging fish line with hooks across the trail, dumping garbage on the trail, smashing car windows for those parked at trail heads, and personal attacks on hikers. The local authorities seemed to be more sympathetic toward the land owners than the hikers, so the harassment continued for a number of years. Parts of North Carolina and Tennessee seemed to be some of the worst areas.I remember reading Colonel Chaco's thread about his hike where he was nearly assaulted by some rowdies in North Carolina:http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34757

OutdoorsMan
05-29-2011, 09:44
My solution is to stealth camp far away from trail access points coupled with a Walther PPK loaded with .380 hollow points, always at my fingertips, especially when in my tent.

That's an awfully heavy weapon for backpacking IMO. I would suggest something like a Ruger LCP instead.

leaftye
05-29-2011, 09:58
That's an awfully heavy weapon for backpacking IMO. I would suggest something like a Ruger LCP instead.

Make sure you attach a bayonet to that thing.

Old Hiker
05-29-2011, 11:10
My solution is to stealth camp far away from trail access points coupled with a Walther PPK loaded with .380 hollow points, always at my fingertips, especially when in my tent.

I thought all law-abiding UK citizens gave up their handguns?? :eek: :rolleyes: :sun

DavidNH
05-29-2011, 11:22
This has to be the saddest story I've ever read on any hiking forum. How any one could beat up a hiker is beyond me.

I hope this lowlife gets caught and sent to jail asap.

David

Cookerhiker
05-29-2011, 11:38
I too hope that he reported the crime. If crimes, especially violent ones like this and the one last year outside Damascus go unreported and unprosecuted, it will only embolden bullies who perceive that hikers are easy pickins' because they're too timid to report to authorities and face the perpetrators.

I'm confident that law enforcement personnel along the AT corridor will do their utmost to solve the crime; the Damascus police's investigation was outstanding.

Lord Helment
05-29-2011, 12:04
agree with cookerhiker

Carl in FL
05-29-2011, 12:19
This has to be the saddest story I've ever read on any hiking forum. How any one could beat up a hiker is beyond me.

I hope this lowlife gets caught and sent to jail asap.

David

Agreed. The second saddest aspect of this affair, after reading some of
the history of that region, is that potential newcomers will be discouraged,
or just decide to find another "safer" pastime.

If so motivated by the past, this sort of thing rises above a random
assault and becomes a targeted hate crime, at the very least, and could
be considered domestic terrorism, as harsh or extreme as that sounds.

Let's hope this gets nipped here and now, before the potential for an area
feud becomes real.

max patch
05-29-2011, 12:58
This has to be the saddest story I've ever read on any hiking forum. How any one could beat up a hiker is beyond me.




Agreed. The second saddest aspect of this affair, after reading some of
the history of that region, is that potential newcomers will be discouraged,
or just decide to find another "safer" pastime.



The third saddest part of this affair is that some losers felt the need to call Nature Boy a liar and that his whole story was a lie.

nufsaid
05-29-2011, 13:04
If so motivated by the past, this sort of thing rises above a random
assault and becomes a targeted hate crime, at the very least, and could
be considered domestic terrorism, as harsh or extreme as that sounds.



Carl, get a grip. And yes, it does sound extreme.

nufsaid
05-29-2011, 13:10
I too hope that he reported the crime. If crimes, especially violent ones like this and the one last year outside Damascus go unreported and unprosecuted, it will only embolden bullies who perceive that hikers are easy pickins' because they're too timid to report to authorities and face the perpetrators.


I totally agree.

weary
05-29-2011, 13:48
The third saddest part of this affair is that some losers felt the need to call Nature Boy a liar and that his whole story was a lie.
The fourth saddest part of this affair is that it has renewed calls for sleeping with loaded fire arms, while on the trail, a practice that if carried out enough, sooner or later will result in a firearm accident in which an innocent person will be killed or injured.

hikerboy57
05-29-2011, 13:57
The fourth saddest part of this affair is that it has renewed calls for sleeping with loaded fire arms, while on the trail, a practice that if carried out enough, sooner or later will result in a firearm accident in which an innocent person will be killed or injured.
The last thing needed on the trail are untrained people carrying firearms for protection, shooting at noises in the night.Better that these crimes be reported to the authorities. Hopefully, capture and successful prosecution would add a deterrant.
But , what if it were you assaulted while on a thru, they catch the perpetrator(s) and prosecute. are you taking time off the trail(or later, from work) to go to trial?I think this might be part of the reason crimes go unreported.

leaftye
05-29-2011, 13:58
It's time we pull some random land owner out of his house and beat him brutally. I'll bring the pitchforks. Who's bringing the torches?





Seriously though, sucks for Nature Boy, especially if he did nothing whatsoever to instigate this event. I still have to wonder if he's entirely innocent, especially since he hasn't filed a criminal report, not that that warrants the type of beating he got...maybe.

hikerboy57
05-29-2011, 14:02
Ill bring the feathers, who'll bring the tar?

Toolshed
05-29-2011, 14:04
I thought all law-abiding UK citizens gave up their handguns?? :eek: :rolleyes: :sunNot all of us.....

Toolshed
05-29-2011, 14:09
The last thing needed on the trail are untrained people carrying firearms for protection, shooting at noises in the night.....<snipped>

Really???
Right to untrained people shooting in the night at noises??? :datz:datz

bfitz
05-29-2011, 14:18
should I be scared cause I kinda am now. I haven't told my husband about this incident yet.No, you shouldn't be. This kind of thing is so rare on the AT that even one single mostly unverified account gets this much attention. For all we know the person who was all about setting records and being the fastest just wanted a face-saving excuse to go home, or some some personal business was at play...a completely random night-time assault of that nature without a robbery or other motive is extremely unlikely ANYPLACE, especially someplace like the trail. Statistically speaking, you're far safer on the trail than you are right now in your home reading this. Predators go for easy prey...they lurk in malls and parking lots, they don't hike 40 miles into the woods in the hopes of finding the perfect victim (which the kind of people hikers tend to be aren't even when off the trail). And brains are better weapons than guns, and there is no place on earth you NEED a gun if you have a brain. That doesn't mean don't bring one, it just means your gun is useless anyway if you don't have the requisite intellect to get by without it.

jesse
05-29-2011, 14:21
...this sort of thing rises above a random
assault and becomes a targeted hate crime...

Aren't all crimes hate crimes?

hikerboy57
05-29-2011, 14:22
Really???
Right to untrained people shooting in the night at noises??? :datz:datz
we've had the gun debate on WB a number of times, and I have no problem with someone carrying, as long as they know how to use it.I've been backpacking for over 25 yrs, and grew up on the streets of NYC , and I've NEVER felt the need to carry a gun.Most assaults happen with absolutely no warning, so the gun needs to be easily accessible, and the willingness to use it as well.But someone with little or no experience is an accident waiting to happen.

leaftye
05-29-2011, 14:28
Aren't all crimes hate crimes?

No.


___________

kayak karl
05-29-2011, 14:30
Really???
Right to untrained people shooting in the night at noises??? :datz:datz
explain????? REALLY? you disagree. untrained people with firearms are dangerous. half don't know where the safety is. others couldn't hit a barn. i do classes. im scared on field day. i have hit the dirt on the range. some people should not have firearms.

leaftye
05-29-2011, 14:32
I'm not even sure where the closest barn in, so I'd probably miss it. I'm pretty good at hitting center on a target though. Not always my target though.

mweinstone
05-29-2011, 15:06
ive carryed a gun around these city streets since i was old enough to do so. ive received trainning in the marines and kept proficient with many years of range membership. im fully aware of what it would take to make me pull it out and it sits on my person like the back of my hand. im a crackshot and very aware of the rules. and still, i would never ever carry outside of my own city. its just too easy to depend on when not needed and that would result in jail for the user. and my familiarity with my own city is further insurance that i will know when not to use it. in a situation in witch people are from all over and not just from your hood, you never know what the norm of behavior is compared to te city streets you grew up on. as long as ive carryed, ive never needed it. and as long as its been since i sold my 3 weapons for food and test strip money, i have felt just as safe and secure. because a gun dosnt imply safe or secure. it implys ability to defend and protect. and when the need to defend or protect is absent, as it is most days and nights here in philly, its a good thing. to me, a gun carryied in the city is only for the protection of others. my life is not up for protecting that way. i will lay down for the criminal who must kill me. i will only shoot him if he threatens another.

jbwood5
05-29-2011, 15:08
explain????? REALLY? you disagree. untrained people with firearms are dangerous. half don't know where the safety is. others couldn't hit a barn. i do classes. im scared on field day. i have hit the dirt on the range. some people should not have firearms.

One shot into the ground would have probably sent those thugs running.... and at 1 AM in the morning after covering 40 some miles on the trail, any shot fired is not likely going hit a target. You sure wouldn't want liquored up perpetrators to get a hold of that gun anyhow.

Like everyone here, I'd like to see a full report with details and see it filed with an official crime report. Anyone see a newspaper story? There still is so much missing information, though I believe this really happened.

Carl in FL
05-29-2011, 15:13
Aren't all crimes hate crimes?

Well, morally, yes; legally, no. The feds seem determined to highlight certain
victims as more aggrieved than others.

And yes, this one single incident does not rise to the level of domestic
terrorism; that was over the top. But it becomes a candidate if there exists a
pattern of targeting a certain group for categorical reasons.

Look, I just hope NB recovers as best as can be expected, and this incident
becomes a very minor bit of history.

Toolshed
05-29-2011, 15:19
explain????? REALLY? you disagree. untrained people with firearms are dangerous. half don't know where the safety is. others couldn't hit a barn. i do classes. im scared on field day. i have hit the dirt on the range. some people should not have firearms.

My point was that we went right to gun-owners being untrained people shooting at noises in the dark. A complete bypass of those with CCWP's, training and common sense. BTW, I personally don't know anyone that owns or carries that is untrained, doesn't head out to the range on ocassion.

Aside from criminals, Karl, Do you really think that 50% percent of people that legally purchased handguns and obtained CCWPs have no idea of where the safety is?

Newb
05-29-2011, 15:41
I hope nature boy filed a police report.

Red Hat
05-29-2011, 19:40
I know that Natureboy is disappointed, but hey, more than 800 miles in less than 20 days is pretty awesome! It took me two months to do what he did, of course I'm old and slow. and for the naysayers, this was not anywhere in NC where the animosity runs deep. (I spoke to several when I went through and understand their complaints, but they are getting used to hikers and don't blame us, just the govt.) this was VA just south of Waynesboro, land that has been public for years.

stranger
05-30-2011, 00:52
Yes.

___________

That was a joke...but thanks for looking into it:D

Pedaling Fool
05-30-2011, 07:48
There was a real need for Hate Crime legislation in our history http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes, but like most issues once it gets into the public domain (discussion of) it becomes perversed. Hikers (and many other groups) don't need special hate crime protection.

Mother Natures Son
05-30-2011, 07:57
I remember back when the the AT was routed off the 18 miles of roads in the Cumberland Valley. (PA) Many of the locals didn't like the hikers because the feds took their land. It came to a draw one day when some thru-hikers drank too much in Boiling Springs. To make a long story short, it took a lot of people (on both sides) to keep a major brawl from developing. Still to this day, hikers aren't always welcome in all parts of trail towns. I wonder "if" this is what happened here?

Free Range Chicken
05-30-2011, 08:01
How did they know his name? EVERYONE on the trail knows his name. He has gained so much fame in the past few months that he is legendary and well deserves it. People he met on the trail would say "You're that guy!" Most people love a hero and a winner, but unfortunately, there are a few sad souls who seem to want to tear people down and ruin their plans. Jealousy or meanness, who knows.
I met Nature Boy last summer, before he was famous. He is a great guy- quiet but friendly, willing to spend time talking with a rookie about thru hiking. He loves to hike and run and challenge himself. He was on track to meet his goal. He had his heart set on it.
The crime has been reported. He has not announced any plans except to heal from the concussion.

Trillium
05-30-2011, 08:23
VERY good response, thanks B.

No, you shouldn't be. This kind of thing is so rare on the AT that even one single mostly unverified account gets this much attention. For all we know the person who was all about setting records and being the fastest just wanted a face-saving excuse to go home, or some some personal business was at play...a completely random night-time assault of that nature without a robbery or other motive is extremely unlikely ANYPLACE, especially someplace like the trail. Statistically speaking, you're far safer on the trail than you are right now in your home reading this. Predators go for easy prey...they lurk in malls and parking lots, they don't hike 40 miles into the woods in the hopes of finding the perfect victim (which the kind of people hikers tend to be aren't even when off the trail). And brains are better weapons than guns, and there is no place on earth you NEED a gun if you have a brain. That doesn't mean don't bring one, it just means your gun is useless anyway if you don't have the requisite intellect to get by without it.

stranger
05-30-2011, 22:21
Something ain't right here...don't know what, but something ain't right.

Something this rare happening to someone so in the limelight, having that both come together seems extremely unlikely...miles from a road crossing with no motive.

However, why make this up? Certainly an easier out would be a fictional stress fracture or tendonitis...so I can't see any motive to lie.

This guy was crushing miles, 45 mile days, absolutely crushing it. He has my respect for what he has accomplished on this hike.

Once again...gotta hand it to Ward, he managed this 21 years ago with much heavier gear, little publicity and he set the bar.

This got me thinking though...in 2001 after a very late night at Gyp's Tavern just north of DWG, I fell out of a parked truck onto my face, smashed my glasses and knocked myself senseless...I kept walking, maybe Nature Boy should have been drunk, might of saved him : )

stranger
05-30-2011, 22:25
I remember back when the the AT was routed off the 18 miles of roads in the Cumberland Valley. (PA) Many of the locals didn't like the hikers because the feds took their land. It came to a draw one day when some thru-hikers drank too much in Boiling Springs. To make a long story short, it took a lot of people (on both sides) to keep a major brawl from developing. Still to this day, hikers aren't always welcome in all parts of trail towns. I wonder "if" this is what happened here?

I seriously doubt it, you ever hike a 40 mile day? Don't think there is any time for pubs and drinking

max patch
05-30-2011, 22:57
This location is rather close to the road.




miles from a road crossing with no motive.



I have no idea.

stranger
05-31-2011, 03:40
I was under the impression it was not close to a road, a few miles atleast. For the AT a few miles is remote, as I've crossed a road 5-6 times in a single day

LBJ
05-31-2011, 07:21
Come on, you all know deep in your hearts that this whole thing was a hoax.

fiddlehead
05-31-2011, 07:30
Come on, you all know deep in your hearts that this whole thing was a hoax.

Speak for yourself.
I know no such thing
If you
know something we don't, don't hint around.
Come out with it.

LBJ
05-31-2011, 07:37
Speak for yourself.
I know no such thing
If you
know something we don't, don't hint around.
Come out with it.

Think, what are the odds of at random, someone having thier shoes stolen? say 100 to 1. Then on the same hike being chosen to being beat up? Another 100 to 1? 100 X 100 = 10,000 to 1. I don't like the odds.

fiddlehead
05-31-2011, 07:42
I had my shoes taken by a coyote once.
My brother mistakenly took someone else's (thru-hikers) shoes once.

You want to call me a liar? Ok, but you should have some proof if you want to be taken seriously.

DAJA
05-31-2011, 07:44
On a northern Ontario hike I had my shoes stolen in the middle of the night.. I was a four day walk from the trailhead.. The next morning I began the trek back to my car in my flip flop camp shoes... Two nights after that I had my hung food stolen... Carabiner and bearline hanging neatly in the tree, but the bag of food was gone. At this point it was clear I had someone stalking me, so I never bothered stopping the remaining 23 hrs out to the car.

Reported it to police, who first couldn't believe anyone still "backpacked"... Then informed me that there where several "odd balls" and "loners" living in the woods around here.. They didn't take it serious and told me I wasn't ever at risk and to stick to "developed" hiking trails in the future..

d.o.c
05-31-2011, 07:49
holy crap whats wrong with people... hope justice is done and nature boy recovers fast and well..

LBJ
05-31-2011, 07:50
I had my shoes taken by a coyote once.
My brother mistakenly took someone else's (thru-hikers) shoes once.

You want to call me a liar? Ok, but you should have some proof if you want to be taken seriously.

Where in any of my posts did I call anyone a liar? I enjoy elaborate jokes, such as this "record attempt" was and just want everyone to see it for what it was.

jbwood5
05-31-2011, 08:10
Come on, you all know deep in your hearts that this whole thing was a hoax.

Don't think it is a hoax. I only know the guy from his ultra-running races, his numerous posts on Trail Journals and other web pages. I can tell you that the 100 mile trail runs he ran are extremly well monitored with numerous check points so you can't falsify your effort there. Also, both 100 mile foot races are very rugged and similar and sometimes tougher than the AT. His first 100 was the Pinhotti Trail and the 2nd was a Georgia race held near Dawsonville in extremely muddy, rainy, miserable conditions. These runs take place all day and all night. Nature Boy finished near the top. He was in a little tent camped in a muddy field near the start finish/line and the area was being continuously drenched with cold rain I think the completion rate of all the entrants was about 33%. I was there and I can speak for Nature Boy's mental toughness.

According to his reports which seem to be verified by others, he has thru-hiked the AT 3 times. Others could verify his efforts there.

I highly doubt that he would get any corporate sponsorship without his background thoroughly being checked. If he pulled off a hoax, he would be banned from any further sponsorship for life. As it stands, he is still in good standing with those sponsors and they will want him to try again.

The more I dig into this situation, the more I am learning. It appears that there was an assault last year, first posted on WB by Lone Wolf.
http://www.swvatoday.com/news/article/county_men_charged_in_beating/8434/

This sounds like a similar situation. The sad thing is that the County dropped all the charges.

http://www2.tricities.com/news/2011/jan/26/4/breaking-news-prosecutor-declines-pursue-charges-d-ar-800960/

So for all we know it could be the same 3 thugs who moved up the trail. They certainly aren't welcome around Damascus.

No, I don't think this was a hoax.

fiddlehead
05-31-2011, 08:17
Where in any of my posts did I call anyone a liar? I.

Maybe here:


Come on, you all know deep in your hearts that this whole thing was a hoax.

Elder
05-31-2011, 09:11
No Hoax, No Lie.
Improbable as it is . It Happened.
I met with him the day after..want to call ME a liar?

Hey Alligator..1 vote to ban LBJ.

Cookerhiker
05-31-2011, 09:45
Where in any of my posts did I call anyone a liar? I enjoy elaborate jokes, such as this "record attempt" was and just want everyone to see it for what it was.

You're saying it's a "hoax" but no one lied?:-?



.... The sad thing is that the County dropped all the charges......

Please don't mislead readers by casting aspersions on the county. As you probably learned from researching this incident, the only reason charges were dropped was the victims refused to testify.

jbwood5
05-31-2011, 10:16
You're saying it's a "hoax" but no one lied?:-?




Please don't mislead readers by casting aspersions on the county. As you probably learned from researching this incident, the only reason charges were dropped was the victims refused to testify.

That is why I posted the link. No need to repost everything in the original report.

I would be in the same situation as 2 victims except I would have originally filed a report which they did not. It is virtually impossible to come a thousand miles to a several day trial while you are working, trying to support a family, and trying to move on with your life. You see this same thing happen in many unprosecuted rapes because the victim wants to move on. In a trial you have to re-live the nightmare all over again.
Unfortunately, charges get dropped and criminals persist... but I see these guys have been busted for unrelated drug charges so they seem to be on this earth to wreak havoc and they will get their day in h'll.

Nothing against the County or area was implied. I love the area. I love Damascus. I stayed at the Place and I stayed at the Appalcahian Inn house next to The Place back when it was a place to rent many years ago. All my experiences have been positive on the trail and in these areas. I know local people get very sensitive about a beautiful area getting a bad reputation, but it doesn't matter where you are. Stuff happens. For all the readers, it is most likely (99.999%) that you will not have an encounter anywhere on the trail. Just use common sense.

The problem I have is with the legal system. The prosecuter has the proof and evidence to press charges but generally in this Country the party charged has the right to face the party making the accusations in a court of law. That is what makes up a case and without both parties in court there usually is not a case.... or the case becomes too weak to stick.

Fog Horn
05-31-2011, 10:26
I don't understand this crime at all. Is it related to his record attempt? No one else seems to be rivalling his goal, so a Nancy Kerrigan style hit wouldn't make sense. Was someone just really afraid of seeing him succeed?

I just don't get it. Why would anyone do this?!

jbwood5
05-31-2011, 10:46
QUOTE=Fog Horn;1166559]I don't understand this crime at all. Is it related to his record attempt? No one else seems to be rivalling his goal, so a Nancy Kerrigan style hit wouldn't make sense. Was someone just really afraid of seeing him succeed?

I just don't get it. Why would anyone do this?![/QUOTE]

That is something we all have a difficult time understanding. Why are there just mean people out there? It may go back bullying where the perpetrator gets some kind satisfaction or feeling of power by beating up other people. Perhaps they were abused by their parents. This is often thought to be the cause for some of these crimes.

My only thought on the subject is that we need to teach our young people the beauty and value of life, keep them busy with productive acrivities, and many of the Christian ways of treating people the same way you want to be treated. Obviously there is much more, but I can't go on without creating an entire off-topic discussion. :)

Blissful
05-31-2011, 11:16
Some hikers I met in Shenandoah at our picnic talked about the welt on the side of his face. They saw him in Waynesboro. And met him trying to hike but could not.

So lets put to rest anything of a hoax.

Mr Boston
05-31-2011, 11:21
I don't understand this crime at all. Is it related to his record attempt? No one else seems to be rivalling his goal, so a Nancy Kerrigan style hit wouldn't make sense. Was someone just really afraid of seeing him succeed?

I just don't get it. Why would anyone do this?!

To me it sounds like a stalker or crime of opportunity. He was very open in his postings on Facebook, often telling all of his "friends" where he was setting up camp. I guess all it takes is one person with bad intentions to be following his progress.
The night before the incident, Nature boy commented "I'm loosing my mind....everywhere I go someone seems to be waiting for me. People are telling me my schedule and standing by my tent waiting for me"

I hope the law involved is doing a good job investigating this crime.

DapperD
05-31-2011, 13:33
I don't understand this crime at all. Is it related to his record attempt? No one else seems to be rivalling his goal, so a Nancy Kerrigan style hit wouldn't make sense. Was someone just really afraid of seeing him succeed?

I just don't get it. Why would anyone do this?!Assuming this is true (as other's here are stating) and it was committed by someone unknown to him, then I would say it would most likely be due to other's jealousy, general unhappiness, and/or animosity directed towards people out living and enjoying their lives:-?.

mweinstone
05-31-2011, 15:17
dapper, jelosy aint it. pure evil dont stop at being just jelouse. to beat someone takes damage.the perps were damaged severly. all criminals like them are. they have tourtured animals and lite cats and swung them on ropes and stuff like that. were not talking about folks who can be reintegrated into sociaty after simple jail and theropy. we need to kill bad people. just like we kill bad grizzlys or bad lions or bad rats or anything that threatens human life. by loosing our guts for killing evil, we open the door to evil . and when evil sees an open door, well, its party time.

Fog Horn
05-31-2011, 16:40
To me it sounds like a stalker or crime of opportunity. He was very open in his postings on Facebook, often telling all of his "friends" where he was setting up camp. I guess all it takes is one person with bad intentions to be following his progress.
The night before the incident, Nature boy commented "I'm loosing my mind....everywhere I go someone seems to be waiting for me. People are telling me my schedule and standing by my tent waiting for me"

I hope the law involved is doing a good job investigating this crime.


Its funny because a while back, when I first joined whiteblaze I made a comment that for my safety I would likely fudge the date of any trail journal or facebook entry so that no one would know where I was unless I was checking in with them some other way. People said that I was paranoid, and that no one would harm me by knowing where I was.

Now, I KNOW that I'm going to fudge my numbers. Sure, I'm not quasi famous like he is, but as mentioned, it only takes one person.

CowHead
05-31-2011, 16:44
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/176269 and here's one where the person got 8 years for assaulting a hiking, it happens on the trail it happens in the towns you should always be thinking safety look both way's before crossing a road, don't mess with a bear and her cubs, never talk to strangers on the trail that don't smell as bad as you do...

max patch
05-31-2011, 16:52
Its funny because a while back, when I first joined whiteblaze I made a comment that for my safety I would likely fudge the date of any trail journal or facebook entry so that no one would know where I was unless I was checking in with them some other way. People said that I was paranoid, and that no one would harm me by knowing where I was.

Now, I KNOW that I'm going to fudge my numbers. Sure, I'm not quasi famous like he is, but as mentioned, it only takes one person.

If I had saw your post I would have recommended you have a time lag when posting an online trail journal. Females have been stalked in the past; its easy for someone to figure out where you're gonna be if you post in real time.

As a matter of fact, when Wingfoot ran Trailplace he used to host trail journals. One of the females was met at a road crossing by a guy who developed a crush on her and was able to figure out where she would be. After that happened WF started to automatically delay posting journal updates.

10-K
05-31-2011, 16:58
As a matter of fact, when Wingfoot ran Trailplace he used to host trail journals. One of the females was met at a road crossing by a guy who developed a crush on her and was able to figure out where she would be. After that happened WF started to automatically delay posting journal updates.

Now that's really creepy......

jbwood5
05-31-2011, 17:06
Its funny because a while back, when I first joined whiteblaze I made a comment that for my safety I would likely fudge the date of any trail journal or facebook entry so that no one would know where I was unless I was checking in with them some other way. People said that I was paranoid, and that no one would harm me by knowing where I was.

Now, I KNOW that I'm going to fudge my numbers. Sure, I'm not quasi famous like he is, but as mentioned, it only takes one person.

Use your first instincts. They are usually right. Most Trail Journal reports use to be delayed, but now with instant technology they can almost be live. I am not a fan of live technology that tells everyone where I am at nor am I a fan of Facebook which tends to reveal too much personal information. My employer discourages Facebook use too, and they have a rule that we are not to have contact with media without pre-approval (hence they extend that rule to include some social network media - it's the type of job).

I like to use trail journals as a log or diary and I refer back to them often, usually months or years later. No need to identify your location every day. Those reading your adventure will enjoy it just as much, weeks later.

You should be cautious and it is wise to think ahead, and I think you are by your statement.

As most people have stated you should not have any problems with the type of issue here and it should not be an overall concern, only that you should be aware. With the AT, you are going to meet people (very kind hikers) who will want to help you and be sure no one bothers you. Camp at or near the shelters and avoid staying near the road crossings unless you are with a group of fellow hikers.

Have an awesome hike!!!!

Just John

10-K
05-31-2011, 17:17
Its funny because a while back, when I first joined whiteblaze I made a comment that for my safety I would likely fudge the date of any trail journal or facebook entry so that no one would know where I was unless I was checking in with them some other way. People said that I was paranoid, and that no one would harm me by knowing where I was.

Now, I KNOW that I'm going to fudge my numbers. Sure, I'm not quasi famous like he is, but as mentioned, it only takes one person.

And... remember, statistically you're morel likely to be bitten by a venomous snake than attacked on the trail....

PennyPincher
05-31-2011, 17:25
Jennifer Pharr Davis is about to start her attempt. I know she is aware of the attack on NB. I for one can do without the updates if it means keeping her safer from nutjobs.

restless
05-31-2011, 17:26
And... remember, statistically you're morel likely to be bitten by a venomous snake than attacked on the trail....

10-K-

Just wondering, what are the statistical odds of a snake biting a bear who is attacking someone who just assaulted a hiker? All these posts have me scratchin' my head!!!

10-K
05-31-2011, 17:33
10-K-

Just wondering, what are the statistical odds of a snake biting a bear who is attacking someone who just assaulted a hiker? All these posts have me scratchin' my head!!!

I'm having way too much fun with the snakebite stats!

hikerboy57
05-31-2011, 17:34
10-K-

Just wondering, what are the statistical odds of a snake biting a bear who is attacking someone who just assaulted a hiker? All these posts have me scratchin' my head!!!
statisticaly, you're more likely to get hit by lightning than getting bitten by a snake.

10-K
05-31-2011, 17:42
statisticaly, you're more likely to get hit by lightning than getting bitten by a snake.

I'm not sure about that... http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/primer/lightning/ltg_damage.html - looks like ~300 people per year get lit up....

But, saying you're almost 300 times more likely to get struck by lightening than getting attacked by a bear sounds a lot better...

hikerboy57
05-31-2011, 17:51
I'm not sure about that... http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/primer/lightning/ltg_damage.html - looks like ~300 people per year get lit up....

But, saying you're almost 300 times more likely to get struck by lightening than getting attacked by a bear sounds a lot better...
10-k then lets go with that. I was going to throw in shark attacks, but apparently you have to be well below treeline.

restless
05-31-2011, 17:56
10-k then lets go with that. I was going to throw in shark attacks, but apparently you have to be well below treeline.

While we're at it:
http://www.funny2.com/odds.htm

10-K
05-31-2011, 18:08
While we're at it:
http://www.funny2.com/odds.htm

That's great - it really puts our fears in perspective.

UPDATE: You *are* more likely to get struck by lightening than killed by a bear: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:hsrBlI8WNJ4J:www.fs.fed.us/outdoors/naturewatch/implementation/Human-Wildlife-Interactions/Be-Bear-Aware-Program.pdf+odds+of+getting+attacked+by+a+bear&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShv_5e-IXQjzPjuw_p47F9HKB6Lh3J24_DMmklUj1Saop6TvI2vd-vkJ9dwT9IwMAe7hmZ1xNvpqIj7GNTZ-EDivbJxI3UvddJagMHH36IjuokZf8gDQaEz6Jq4BGny1WRAjKJ q&sig=AHIEtbSG_pL9zFqFkbBrDTP08YGfzGWzGQ&pli=1

This is a great read btw....

hikerboy57
05-31-2011, 18:22
odds of becoming a pro athlete 22000-1., odds of a successful thru 10-1.
well I never turned pro, so I guess a thru hike is the next best thing.Thanks, restless. I now want to learn to speak cherokee

mweinstone
05-31-2011, 18:26
are "odds" just hopes made mathamatical? or are they fears, made statistical? or are they imagination, carryed away? or are they blame , exsplained? not sure about this whole odds thing.

nufsaid
05-31-2011, 18:29
Camp at or near the shelters and avoid staying near the road crossings unless you are with a group of fellow hikers.
Just John

I agree about the road crossings. Not so sure about the shelters.

Skidsteer
05-31-2011, 18:49
are "odds" just hopes made mathamatical? or are they fears, made statistical? or are they imagination, carryed away? or are they blame , exsplained? not sure about this whole odds thing.

They are fears in written form to make it easier for us to obsess, freeze up, and die young.

hikerboy57
05-31-2011, 19:45
are "odds" just hopes made mathamatical? or are they fears, made statistical? or are they imagination, carryed away? or are they blame , exsplained? not sure about this whole odds thing.
what do odds mean to the guy that got hit by lightning, some more than once.
My stistics teacher used to hate me, when I kept on insisting the odds of an event happening or not happening is 1 in 2.
the odds thing is sometimes rather odd.

Lone Wolf
05-31-2011, 21:21
As a matter of fact, when Wingfoot ran Trailplace he used to host trail journals. One of the females was met at a road crossing by a guy who developed a crush on her and was able to figure out where she would be. After that happened WF started to automatically delay posting journal updates.

it's amazin' how lots of ladies do the journal thing, posting pics of themselves and dates of where they are. online journals are bad.

BobTheBuilder
05-31-2011, 21:36
are "odds" just hopes made mathamatical? or are they fears, made statistical? or are they imagination, carryed away? or are they blame , exsplained? not sure about this whole odds thing.

They are made up, plain and simple. Easy example - Odds of being US President 10,000,000 to 1. OK, so there are 300 million Americans. That means that 30 people alive today will be US President? Keep in mind that there have been 44 in the last 220 years or so. A cursory look at the rest reveals more or less the same thing. All made up.

Lone Wolf
05-31-2011, 21:39
there's more to the story........

Fog Horn
05-31-2011, 22:12
there's more to the story........

Do tell?

Which story?

tigerpaw
05-31-2011, 22:50
Come on...all 300 million Americans are not eligible to be elected President...

Feral Bill
05-31-2011, 23:10
are "odds" just hopes made mathamatical? or are they fears, made statistical? or are they imagination, carryed away? or are they blame , exsplained? not sure about this whole odds thing.

Sometimes you are a genious.

mweinstone
05-31-2011, 23:16
im allways a genious. i just dont have a woman. so i go astray. but im fixing this friday night. im in love with one of our own. and she me. we mate on the morrow. then i should be sounding much more normal. and thank you all for putting up with me during this sexually frustrated time .lol.

odds: mans wish and hope and attempt at control.
stats: mans subconcious fear of odds
man: an odd statistical improbibility resulting in more of the same.
woman: unchartable depth concerning no known topography, statistics, odds or control. and mans hope, wish and fear.

modiyooch
05-31-2011, 23:46
is there a news article associated with this attack? If there are any updates to this incident, could a new thread be started? thanks

mweinstone
06-01-2011, 00:09
no. only downdates and old thred. sorry.

rickb
06-01-2011, 06:48
And... remember, statistically you're morel likely to be bitten by a venomous snake than attacked on the trail....

I think you may overstating the danger of venomous snakes along the AT.

In point of fact, 5 thru hikers were unable to complete their 2000 mile walks because they were killed by a complete stranger in the middle of their journeys.

In contrast, there has not been one single case a venomous snake ever killing an AT thru hiker.

More over, there have been very, very few reports of non-lethal attacks by venomous snakes. At least so far as what goes reported, I believe statistics show that you are far more likely to be attacked by a person on the AT than bitten by a venomous snake.

10-K
06-01-2011, 08:20
I think you may overstating the danger of venomous snakes along the AT.

In point of fact, 5 thru hikers were unable to complete their 2000 mile walks because they were killed by a complete stranger in the middle of their journeys.

In contrast, there has not been one single case a venomous snake ever killing an AT thru hiker.

More over, there have been very, very few reports of non-lethal attacks by venomous snakes. At least so far as what goes reported, I believe statistics show that you are far more likely to be attacked by a person on the AT than bitten by a venomous snake.

Aren't statistics fun? :)

Who said anything about getting killed? I used the words, "bitten" and "attacked".

I'd be willing to bet a lot more than 5 people have gotten snakebit hiking the AT in the past 70 or so years.... I could be wrong about that, but I'd bet a small sum on it.

10-K
06-01-2011, 08:22
How about this...

My fallback position on this topic is that you're statistically more likely to be killed by a human than a bear.... :)

D'Artagnan
06-01-2011, 13:27
Odds of a Matthewski post without spelling goofs: 14,387,087,001,327:1

:D -- Sorry, dude, just having a little fun with you. Keep on doing what you do 'cause nobody does it better!

LBJ
06-01-2011, 16:25
[QUOTE=rickb;1166954]I think you may overstating the danger of venomous snakes along the AT.


In contrast, there has not been one single case a venomous snake ever killing an AT thru hiker.

Ah, probabilities. You are more likely to be struck by lightning and be bitten by a rattlesnake simultaneously than to win Powerball.

LBJ
06-01-2011, 16:30
Some hikers I met in Shenandoah at our picnic talked about the welt on the side of his face. They saw him in Waynesboro. And met him trying to hike but could not.

So lets put to rest anything of a hoax.

MY cousin knows a guy that talked to someone that..........

DapperD
06-01-2011, 17:43
MY cousin knows a guy that talked to someone that..........Kind of like that game they call telephone:rolleyes::http://www.mangeorge.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/man_on_phone.gif

restless
06-01-2011, 17:47
Sometimes you are a genious.

Othertimes, he is just down right entertaining!!!

pistol p
06-01-2011, 19:19
it's amazin' how lots of ladies do the journal thing, posting pics of themselves and dates of where they are. online journals are bad.

Yeah, the whole day to day, blog as you go thing (especially for the ladies), is a not a good idea. Put a weeks delay on the post, or something. You could just enjoy yourself and let others wait for your emails, phone calls, or postcards. I prefer to post/blog when I get home. Too busy clearing my head and breathing the clean air, to worry about telling people what I'm doing...But, to each their own.

kanga
06-01-2011, 19:25
i really don't get the whole blogging thing in the first place. i think trail journals online is ridiculous. who gives a damn where you **** that day?

ocourse
06-01-2011, 20:17
I'd like to know what kind of tent the victim carries. It must be pretty light to make 40+ MPD.

jbwood5
06-01-2011, 20:43
I'd like to know what kind of tent the victim carries. It must be pretty light to make 40+ MPD.

Here is a link to his gear:

http://www.trailjournals.com/gear.cfm?trailname=11523

Looks like the tent was Sierra Designs at about 2+ pounds.

Jonnycat
06-01-2011, 20:47
i really don't get the whole blogging thing in the first place. i think trail journals online is ridiculous. who gives a damn where you **** that day?

I'm the same way. When I get on the trail, my focus is experiencing the trail and becoming a part of it, not processing my day in order to regurgitate it for everyone else's consumption.

lutefisk
06-01-2011, 20:49
it's amazin' how lots of ladies do the journal thing, posting pics of themselves and dates of where they are. online journals are bad.
Yeah, and leaving jugs unattended. Wait, that was another thread...

fiddlehead
06-01-2011, 21:29
i really don't get the whole blogging thing in the first place. i think trail journals online is ridiculous. who gives a damn where you **** that day?

People want to know.
When we did our speed hike, in 2001-2002, so often, people requested that we post more often and please include our mileage for the day.
We often just didn't have the energy to do it and probably updated about once a week.
It wasn't enough for those following us.
They wanted to know.

In todays world, that is a lot easier to do than it was 10 years ago.

I hope someday we all can learn the truth about who did this and why.

Lugnut
06-01-2011, 21:56
I'm like the majority of hikers: nobody gives a damn where I am! :D

Violent Green
06-02-2011, 10:13
Here is a link to his gear:

http://www.trailjournals.com/gear.cfm?trailname=11523

Looks like the tent was Sierra Designs at about 2+ pounds.

His gear is heavier than I would have imagined it to be for someone trying to do 40 mpd. (compared to others who have attempted various records) Anyone know what his base weight was?

Ryan

double d
06-02-2011, 10:23
it's amazin' how lots of ladies do the journal thing, posting pics of themselves and dates of where they are. online journals are bad.
LW: I've always wondered about that myself, why would someone post their exact location? It just throws common sense out the window.

jbwood5
06-02-2011, 11:01
His gear is heavier than I would have imagined it to be for someone trying to do 40 mpd. (compared to others who have attempted various records) Anyone know what his base weight was?

Ryan

According to his entries in the preparation section of his journal, he was not taking any cooking gear. Here is what it says:

My last prep hike I was carrying 16 pounds with three days food and water, I am hoping to be able to bring that weight down to 15 pounds or below.

I just read through his Trail Journal. The situation is so sad. He had dedicated most of his life in 2011 to training and preparing for this hike.
The journal is still good reading and shows what it takes to be this extreme.

Blissful
06-02-2011, 11:03
I post my journal in towns every few days. Sure one could likely figure out where I might be trail-wise. Its ridiculous that we have to shelter our lives so much from a possible boogie man that I can't let loved ones know what is happening. If someone is so hard pressed to read my journal, figure out where I am and come after me, they'll do it anyway. You're still safer in the woods then when I go out in my neighborhood or around town. And better chance of getting killed stepping in my car.

Oh, did you hear cell phones cause cancer?

We're all gonna die one way or the other. I leave that timing up to God.

Creek Dancer
06-02-2011, 11:17
You can let loved ones know what is happening without telling the whole world where you are, or where you were recently, on the trail. If you can post on a on-line journal, you can send a private email to your loved ones.

And I agree that we are safer in the woods, than downtown.

~Luna~
06-04-2011, 14:38
I always hike alone but never give specifics on when or where, especially on facebook... and I carry a snub nose taurus .357... and yes I live in NC so you consider me a redneck hick packing.. NB is the unfortunate example of why you shouldn't publicize and why you should carry your own protection.

Skidsteer
06-04-2011, 14:42
I always hike alone but never give specifics on when or where, especially on facebook... and I carry a snub nose taurus .357... and yes I live in NC so you consider me a redneck hick packing.. NB is the unfortunate example of why you shouldn't publicize and why you should carry your own protection.

Like......

WingedMonkey
06-04-2011, 14:54
There have been no facts or evidence that this assault was a result of his postings. I know of no record of any assults on the AT that were a result oft a hikers location being known because of journal postings. Maybe I missed some facts?

max patch
06-04-2011, 14:58
There have been no facts or evidence that this assault was a result of his postings. I know of no record of any assults on the AT that were a result oft a hikers location being known because of journal postings. Maybe I missed some facts?

The fact that they knew his name is evidence that it wasn't a random attack. They knew who he was and where he was. Circumstantial perhaps, but good enough for me.

WingedMonkey
06-04-2011, 15:08
The fact that they knew his name is evidence that it wasn't a random attack. They knew who he was and where he was. Circumstantial perhaps, but good enough for me.

I've never used the moniker "Nature Boy", and yet I've been called that dozens of time in the woods by strangers, both friendly and unfriendly.

~Luna~
06-04-2011, 15:16
I see your logic on the nature boy nickname, regardless though, no one knows but the perpetrators at this point. I would still not encourage letting everyone know through facebook for this example as well as the simple fact that you're advertising your home to burglary if you live alone.

double d
06-04-2011, 17:27
Have there been any arrests? Which law enforcement agency(s) are investigating this crime? This is a very serious felony committed against NB and there needs to be arrest, convications and sentences handed out.

10-K
06-04-2011, 17:28
Have there been any arrests? Which law enforcement agency(s) are investigating this crime? This is a very serious felony committed against NB and there needs to be arrest, convications and sentences handed out.

I'm behind on all this - was it reported?

double d
06-05-2011, 02:18
I'm behind on all this - was it reported?
Hello 10-K: No, I haven't heard anything, I've tried doing a internet search, but nothing came up.

restless
06-05-2011, 08:24
I'm behind on all this - was it reported?

Yes, it was reported to Blue Ridge Parkway Law Enforcement. Didn't make the news because one hiker getting assaulted is usually not a newsworthy event.

mweinstone
06-05-2011, 17:14
every time my brother from another mother restless posts from his blue ridge parkway shenendoha life, i see my trail on appel orchard mountain.....post again......xooxoxo oneball matty. god im jelouse of you restless and you may enjoy that jelosy. im proud to be this jelouse. this jelosy feels good. i will endevor to see you alot more often my love.

Captn
06-05-2011, 22:07
Another reason I carry a 4" blade .....

People think twice about screwing with you.

tolkien
06-06-2011, 01:04
Probably some hick trash. All over these parts.

DAJA
06-06-2011, 08:08
I get called "Nature Boy" at least once a day by co-workers, loose associates, distant family friends, sometimes even random strangers. Also commonly called, Tree Hugger, Hippy Dippy Type, Mother Natures Son, and so on...

I wouldn't read to much into the perps calling him "Nature Boy". Being awaken from a dead sleep, pulled from a tent and beaten, likely skewed his perception of the incident.

My bet is this was a strickly random, one off event. Wrong place at the wrong time, sadly.

mweinstone
06-06-2011, 08:17
hikers who your theory could work for but dosnt:

hippy, who no one is beating unless your the size and streangth of the only wanderer.

dude, who wouldnt wake when dragged so it wouldnt be fun for them

dirtbag
dorkus
hikerhead
hikertrash
looser

any of these names with a"yo!" in front of it makes your theory work. problem is, hikers are honest and perseptive. nattybo knows he was called by his name maby cause he was there and used his realtime data he collected . maby?

Hoop Time
06-06-2011, 17:03
I heard some talk about this today while out shooting some photos for an upcoming AT Journeys story I am working on.

From what I heard, there apparently are some unanswered questions about the whole incident. I was told police were trying to find Nature Boy to talk to him because of some things that seemed out of whack or contradictory.

I am not going to post unsubstantiated rumors or hearsay, but from what I heard, there might be more to this whole story than what has been posted in this thread.

Lone Wolf
06-06-2011, 18:23
there's more to the story........




From what I heard, there apparently are some unanswered questions about the whole incident. I was told police were trying to find Nature Boy to talk to him because of some things that seemed out of whack or contradictory.

I am not going to post unsubstantiated rumors or hearsay, but from what I heard, there might be more to this whole story than what has been posted in this thread.

i still believe the whole story is BS

MuddyWaters
06-06-2011, 19:07
I know that few want to believe that you need to be able to protect yourself, but I believe that you you do. At all times, in all circumstances. How you choose to do that is a personal choice though.

Police and authorities do not prevent crimes. They ONLY solve them afterwards. ....Sometimes.

There are a good deal of bad people in the world. Yes odds are slim, but it doesnt matter if the odds are 100:1 or 100,000,000:1 if you are that 1. And somebody WILL be. Hoping that it isnt you is just that.....hoping. You have as much chance as the next person unless you put your odds in your favor.

As Mark Twain said.."There are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics"

It is not improbably in areas with few other people around to stumble across persons doing something illegal, and then become a target. In that situation the situation can escalate to the point where they need to get rid of the evidence (you). It can result from you simply witnessing someone hitting a wife or girlfriend, or a rape, or stumbling upon someone cooking meth, or poaching deer, or harrassing someone else, or stealing something, or vandalizing something.

hikerboy57
06-06-2011, 19:08
see thats why I like to carry a blowgun and a few poison darts.

hikerboy57
06-06-2011, 19:14
I know that few want to believe that you need to be able to protect yourself, but I believe that you you do. At all times, in all circumstances. How you choose to do that is a personal choice though.

Police and authorities do not prevent crimes. They ONLY solve them afterwards. ....Sometimes.

There are a good deal of bad people in the world. Yes odds are slim, but it doesnt matter if the odds are 100:1 or 100,000,000:1 if you are that 1. And somebody WILL be. Hoping that it isnt you is just that.....hoping. You have as much chance as the next person unless you put your odds in your favor.

As Mark Twain said.."There are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics"

It is not improbably in areas with few other people around to stumble across persons doing something illegal, and then become a target. In that situation the situation can escalate to the point where they need to get rid of the evidence (you). It can result from you simply witnessing someone hitting a wife or girlfriend, or a rape, or stumbling upon someone cooking meth, or poaching deer, or harrassing someone else, or stealing something, or vandalizing something.
Police DO prevent crimes, which is why we havent had a major terrorist attack since 9-11. and you watch way too much TV. Yes, theres a lot of bad people in the world, but there are far more good people. The best self defense you have s your brain, and without one, any weapon is useless and dangerous.Your odds argumenbt applies to lightning and a million othr misplaced fears.

MuddyWaters
06-06-2011, 20:11
1. I dont watch TV at all
2. large scale terrorism and violent crimes are not the same thing.

Anyone that wanted to commit a small act of terrorism can easily do so. Easily. Terrorist just dont want to kill 1 person, or 10 people, then have evidence left that is damaging, they want to kill 10,000 which is much harder to do without a trail.

Someone can drive a car into a crowd of kids at a school, then shoot themselves. Simple terrorism and the police cannot do anything to prevent it or stop it.

Someone can hook up a $100 pump to a home water piping in a rented house in a subdivision and backflow common hazardous materials into the water and hurt the whole subdivision. Police cannot do anything to stop it or prevent it.

Someone can walk into a mall and shoot 15 random people, then turn the gun on themselves and the police cannot do anything to prevent it.

And I assure you, If you happen upon a rape at a remote parking area with nobody else around, the police will not protect you then either. Neither will "the other good people". You either can protect yourself, which you are entitled to do , or you can just hope that you never have to.

Some people carry mace, some practice martial arts, some carry a knife, some carry a gun, some carry a big stick. The common denominator is that you need to have a plan.

Lone Wolf
06-06-2011, 20:18
1.

Some people carry mace, some practice martial arts, some carry a knife, some carry a gun, some carry a big stick. The common denominator is that you need to have a plan.

99.9% of folks don't

hikerboy57
06-06-2011, 20:19
I dont know where you live, but im sorry you feel that way. Ive lived in NYC my entire life, have SEEN cops STOPPING crimes, and you seem to forget you only hear about the ones that werent stopped. Ive never felt the need to carry a weapon, and on the AT the threat is close to nonexistent. Everyone has a choice in life, to live in paranoid fear, or to live. I prefer to look for the good in people, to givr them the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong, and to always find the common ground. My wits have kept me away from most dangerous situations, and have also gotten me out of a few.And I carry my swiss army knife,with corkscrew attachment, just in case.

FarmRookie 2015
06-06-2011, 21:22
Police DO prevent crimes, which is why we havent had a major terrorist attack since 9-11. and you watch way too much TV. Yes, theres a lot of bad people in the world, but there are far more good people. The best self defense you have s your brain, and without one, any weapon is useless and dangerous.Your odds argumenbt applies to lightning and a million othr misplaced fears.

While they no doubt prevent the ocasional crime, they mostly investigate in the aftermath.

DapperD
06-06-2011, 21:41
I know that few want to believe that you need to be able to protect yourself, but I believe that you you do. At all times, in all circumstances. How you choose to do that is a personal choice though.

Police and authorities do not prevent crimes. They ONLY solve them afterwards. ....Sometimes.

There are a good deal of bad people in the world. Yes odds are slim, but it doesnt matter if the odds are 100:1 or 100,000,000:1 if you are that 1. And somebody WILL be. Hoping that it isnt you is just that.....hoping. You have as much chance as the next person unless you put your odds in your favor.

As Mark Twain said.."There are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics"

It is not improbably in areas with few other people around to stumble across persons doing something illegal, and then become a target. In that situation the situation can escalate to the point where they need to get rid of the evidence (you). It can result from you simply witnessing someone hitting a wife or girlfriend, or a rape, or stumbling upon someone cooking meth, or poaching deer, or harrassing someone else, or stealing something, or vandalizing something.I can understand your reasoning in saying that the police do not "prevent" crimes, that they only follow up afterward. However I also, as other's have stated, do not believe this to always be the case. There are many crimes that have been/are thwarted by police, such as when they happen upon one occuring, see one taking place on cameras strategically placed in inner city high crime areas, subways, etc...also subway predators being caught by police officers posing as victims, etc...so this is not always the case. I do believe your argument that in a life and death situation you will most likely only be able to rely on your own abilities to get yourself safe if you are in an isolated area and with no other persons to provide help being available. Stubbling across a major crime such as a murder, etc...would definately put one in harms way if the individual(s) were willing to cover up their crime by insuring no one was able to report it. Then you would be put in a life and death situation. Let's say this did occur. Then the only real attempts to save onself would be at that moment to either fight or take flight. If you could run and be able to out run and elude your attackers, then this would probably be the best choice and strategy. However if you could not, then the only way to survive at that moment would be to engage them, and that would not be with fists, clubs, knives, mace, etc...it would be with a firearm. This is what you would need available in order to stand a decent chance of survival against a single or multiple opponent(s) hell bent on attack/murder. So unless you are willing to carry a firearm (which in all likelyhood would be a handgun), there really would not be too much one could do other than run if a person or persons who is/are commiting this type of major crime that you have inadvertently stumbled upon, and then decide you are a liability and in all likelyhood are armed themselves:-?. Unfortunately the majority of hikers/backpackers are most likely not carrying a firearm, and unless they are willing to/are and know how to use it and use it well, then they will always remain vulnerable to a violent isolated encounter with a dangerous individual(s).

Trillium
06-06-2011, 22:22
While we're at it:
http://www.funny2.com/odds.htm

Odds of dating a supermodel: 88,000 to 1


I can just hear the guys on here saying: "So, you're saying there's a chance." :D

mweinstone
06-06-2011, 22:35
policeing is done by men and women in uniform because it prevents crime. its called crime prevention. and when a crime is commited that they have no way to stop...they are still a presence that stops most others. so the crimes that get thru are getting thru cause the cops cant prevent all crime. but they fully stop and prevent most. with cops, you cant just go steal food and medical supplys and clothes you may despratly need. with cops, you can learn where to get those things. with cops, you sleep protected and watched and the crimes that would definatly be being perpitrated against you are being prevented by their driving around all night while their babys grow up with only mommy at home in the dark scary night. but that child grows up knowing the night is dangerous and that her daddy sacraficed singing her bedtime songs and dtories cause he was doing what brave people do when things need preventing. cops dont prevent crimes? then how is it im alive. ive been helped by cops presence when i may have been killed and without them ever knowing. your wrong sir. living wrong as apposed to dead wrong. and prolly somewhat due to a cop somewhere sometime that may have helped you when the situation could have gone any way. disrespect cops and ill be unable to lambast you kind sir. but i also will be unable to seace my unending ranting. and i will be boreing you. so no. you are not correct.

weary
06-06-2011, 23:21
99.9% of folks don't
And most of the 99.9+++% live long, safe, productive -- even reasonably happy -- lives, nevertheless.

Even I, who routinely made a lot of people angry -- some bitter enemies -- while earning a living, never encountered a situation where any defense would have been useful.

darkage
06-07-2011, 01:11
I sleep with an un-clicked blade next to my body, someone would have a rough night tryin to jump me in my sleep ... this is a very very rare occurance, yet by a punk ... still ... its very unlikely this would happen, yet the chance is still there ... otherwise this forum wouldn't be 11 pages+ .... but with trail journals and whiteblaze and facebook/twitter and any other source of information basicly within public reach, its the chance people take using those methods of updating family/friends ... you don't think this sort of thing will happen, but being prepared for it is a must ... be vigilant of those around you ... being caught by surprise is what will get you killed ...

mweinstone
06-07-2011, 06:33
I sleep with an un-clicked blade next to my body, someone would have a rough night tryin to jump me in my sleep ... this is a very very rare occurance, yet by a punk ... still ... its very unlikely this would happen, yet the chance is still there ... otherwise this forum wouldn't be 11 pages+ .... but with trail journals and whiteblaze and facebook/twitter and any other source of information basicly within public reach, its the chance people take using those methods of updating family/friends ... you don't think this sort of thing will happen, but being prepared for it is a must ... be vigilant of those around you ... being caught by surprise is what will get you killed ...

it was in 77 or 78. at about 8 or 9 thousand feet at the base of gannet peak in the winds. my tentmate was scared of bears. so he left his swiss army knife open and stuck in the dirt bettween us and went to sleep. early in the am, i woke to something flailing in the tent wildly. it was my tentmate. he had rolled over and cut his finger deeply. he was so polite, he searched for first aid in the dark quietly as to not wake me. i turnned on my lamp and found a soaked with blood tent, bags and tentmate. what a dummy.

~Luna~
06-07-2011, 07:36
Everyone has their own choice to carry or not carry protection.. that's what makes America great... I would rather be safe than sorry!;)

double d
06-07-2011, 07:56
So what do we know now? Did NB get attacked or not? Did he (or someone else) file a false report to the police? Did he run off to Ohio for good? Fact is indeed more stranger then fiction.

double d
06-07-2011, 07:57
I dont know where you live, but im sorry you feel that way. Ive lived in NYC my entire life, have SEEN cops STOPPING crimes, and you seem to forget you only hear about the ones that werent stopped. Ive never felt the need to carry a weapon, and on the AT the threat is close to nonexistent. Everyone has a choice in life, to live in paranoid fear, or to live. I prefer to look for the good in people, to givr them the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong, and to always find the common ground. My wits have kept me away from most dangerous situations, and have also gotten me out of a few.And I carry my swiss army knife,with corkscrew attachment, just in case.

Good points!

darkage
06-07-2011, 15:43
it was in 77 or 78. at about 8 or 9 thousand feet at the base of gannet peak in the winds. my tentmate was scared of bears. so he left his swiss army knife open and stuck in the dirt bettween us and went to sleep. early in the am, i woke to something flailing in the tent wildly. it was my tentmate. he had rolled over and cut his finger deeply. he was so polite, he searched for first aid in the dark quietly as to not wake me. i turnned on my lamp and found a soaked with blood tent, bags and tentmate. what a dummy.

Unclicked, not unsheathed ... sucked to have been him ...

pistol p
06-07-2011, 17:32
see thats why I like to carry a blowgun and a few poison darts.


Hikerboy, I see that you, too, are a ninja.

Hoop Time
06-08-2011, 10:39
Having spent many years as a cops reporter, I can tell you that there are very few random assaults. Most victims of violent crimes are targeted and most are committed by someone who knows the victim.

The biggest exceptions are cases where the victim is attacked during a theft, whether someone is home during a burglary, or a mugging/robbery on the street.

In those cases the perps were targeting something of value and the victim was "in the way."

I know we all think our hiking gear is very valuable, but in reality, crooks are not roaming the great outdoors looking to steal steripens and alcohol stoves.

For many years I have camped on fly fishing trips at a Pa. state park that is relatively easily accessible by car. Folks there routinely leave valuable fly rods and other gear unsecured and the only thing I have ever heard of being taken was a cooler.

That was recovered later the next day in the woods not far from the owner's camp site. The meat and food that was inside was gone. The cooler had big marks on each side and on the top from the claws and teeth of the bear that had taken it.

If carrying a weapon helps you sleep better at night, that is up to you. But the likelihood you will ever need/use it for protection is slimmer than a New York fashion model with a heroin habit.

Buffalo Skipper
06-08-2011, 10:45
Having spent many years as a cops reporter, I can tell you that there are very few random assaults. Most victims of violent crimes are targeted and most are committed by someone who knows the victim.

The biggest exceptions are cases where the victim is attacked during a theft, whether someone is home during a burglary, or a mugging/robbery on the street.

In those cases the perps were targeting something of value and the victim was "in the way."

I know we all think our hiking gear is very valuable, but in reality, crooks are not roaming the great outdoors looking to steal steripens and alcohol stoves.

For many years I have camped on fly fishing trips at a Pa. state park that is relatively easily accessible by car. Folks there routinely leave valuable fly rods and other gear unsecured and the only thing I have ever heard of being taken was a cooler.

That was recovered later the next day in the woods not far from the owner's camp site. The meat and food that was inside was gone. The cooler had big marks on each side and on the top from the claws and teeth of the bear that had taken it.

If carrying a weapon helps you sleep better at night, that is up to you. But the likelihood you will ever need/use it for protection is slimmer than a New York fashion model with a heroin habit.

Very well put. Thanks.

swjohnsey
06-09-2011, 13:38
I sleep with an un-clicked blade next to my body, someone would have a rough night tryin to jump me in my sleep ... this is a very very rare occurance, yet by a punk ... still ... its very unlikely this would happen, yet the chance is still there ... otherwise this forum wouldn't be 11 pages+ .... but with trail journals and whiteblaze and facebook/twitter and any other source of information basicly within public reach, its the chance people take using those methods of updating family/friends ... you don't think this sort of thing will happen, but being prepared for it is a must ... be vigilant of those around you ... being caught by surprise is what will get you killed ...

Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

double d
06-09-2011, 13:56
Looks like NB has some explaining to do and he ain't been talkin' or so it seems.

darkage
06-09-2011, 14:07
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

i hear ya ...

weary
06-09-2011, 18:24
I sleep with an un-clicked blade next to my body, someone would have a rough night tryin to jump me in my sleep ... this is a very very rare occurance, yet by a punk ... still ... its very unlikely this would happen, yet the chance is still there ... otherwise this forum wouldn't be 11 pages+ .... but with trail journals and whiteblaze and facebook/twitter and any other source of information basicly within public reach, its the chance people take using those methods of updating family/friends ... you don't think this sort of thing will happen, but being prepared for it is a must ... be vigilant of those around you ... being caught by surprise is what will get you killed ...
Neither in these 11 pages, and nor in scores of pages in similar threads, no one has yet reported an incident in which a weapon had protected them from harm.

Pedaling Fool
06-09-2011, 18:44
Normally I like thread-drift, but find it irritating for two reasons on this thread. 1. Lack of originality, i.e. weapons on the AT...yawn 2. Normally thread-drift takes place after the initial issue has been answered, but I'm still confused about the whole thing. I have no more clue about this topic than when it was first reported.

hikerboy57
06-09-2011, 18:55
Neither in these 11 pages, and nor in scores of pages in similar threads, no one has yet reported an incident in which a weapon had protected them from harm.
Thanks, weary, its about time someone brought that up. now lets see....

Red Hat
06-09-2011, 19:17
Looks like NB has some explaining to do and he ain't been talkin' or so it seems.

He owes no one any explanation! He told what happened, then he went home to rest and recover. If you choose not to believe him, that is your problem. Why you think he owes you an explanation is beyond me. And anyone who knows Nature Boy will agree. He's no publicity hound. He's a quiet guy. Has been as long as I've known him.

Red Hat
06-09-2011, 19:24
So what do we know now? Did NB get attacked or not? Did he (or someone else) file a false report to the police? Did he run off to Ohio for good? Fact is indeed more stranger then fiction.

1. Nature Boy was attacked
2. He did not originally file a police report, but when contacted by the local authorities, did give them information as to the incident
3. He went home to Ohio temporarily, but has since returned to Georgia

According to a mutual friend (with rescue experience) who saw him the morning after the incident, he had obvious injuries and a concussion. There was no doubt as to the attack.

max patch
06-09-2011, 19:31
Looks like NB has some explaining to do and he ain't been talkin' or so it seems.

Why? Because some internet trolls said he was lying about the whole thing with no proof to make those allegations?

double d
06-09-2011, 20:45
1. Nature Boy was attacked
2. He did not originally file a police report, but when contacted by the local authorities, did give them information as to the incident
3. He went home to Ohio temporarily, but has since returned to Georgia

According to a mutual friend (with rescue experience) who saw him the morning after the incident, he had obvious injuries and a concussion. There was no doubt as to the attack.

Red Hat: Thanks for the follow up because I hate to see anyone attacked, especially someone hiking the AT. I'm glad that he has returned to the AT and we bring those who attacked him to justice.

Lone Wolf
06-09-2011, 21:41
Neither in these 11 pages, and nor in scores of pages in similar threads, no one has yet reported an incident in which a weapon had protected them from harm.


Thanks, weary, its about time someone brought that up. now lets see....

could be cuz 100% of all murder, rape, assault and robbery victims weren't armed or able to protect themselves? sheeple

Skidsteer
06-09-2011, 21:46
could be cuz 100% of all murder, rape, assault and robbery victims weren't armed or able to protect themselves? sheeple

Lol, debate over.

Point Man Chef
06-09-2011, 22:21
dit.....to.



could be cuz 100% of all murder, rape, assault and robbery victims weren't armed or able to protect themselves? sheeple

Lone Wolf
06-09-2011, 22:49
could be cuz 100% of all murder, rape, assault and robbery victims weren't armed or able to protect themselves? sheeple

and i'm pretty sure the perps committing these crimes can sniff out easy targets then prey on them. gonna happen more and more. thanks to the internet and popularity of the AT

slow
06-09-2011, 23:11
could be cuz 100% of all murder, rape, assault and robbery victims weren't armed or able to protect themselves? sheeple

So,you did pack for them 10000,00 miles ...with no real true thru AT hike?:-?

Lone Wolf
06-09-2011, 23:15
So,you did pack for them 10000,00 miles ...with no real true thru AT hike?:-?

huh? you're confused......

LDog
06-10-2011, 00:17
[QUOTE=weary;1170057]Neither in these 11 pages, and nor in scores of pages in similar threads, no one has yet reported an incident in which a weapon had protected them from harm.

Darkage sleeps with a knife and has not been harmed ... So there!

WingedMonkey
06-10-2011, 00:35
and i'm pretty sure the perps committing these crimes can sniff out easy targets then prey on them. gonna happen more and more. thanks to the internet and popularity of the AT

My dear friend, how did you go from this never happened to he was an easy target?

Lone Wolf
06-10-2011, 00:40
My dear friend, how did you go from this never happened to he was an easy target?

honey i'm talkin about the actual victims in the past. "he" never saw any attacker(s). lotsa speculation...

virgil
06-10-2011, 00:47
fog horn, u r right. fudge your dates and numbers. i was thinking about that the other day when i was reading a trail journal. it's probably best to be walking about a week ahead of your entries or just be posting your entries a week or so late. i know it's a little paronoid, but be careful out there. the advice to camp around other people (which i don't always heed) is also good advice. take care.

hikerboy57
06-10-2011, 07:33
and i'm pretty sure the perps committing these crimes can sniff out easy targets then prey on them. gonna happen more and more. thanks to the internet and popularity of the AT
Why would you think thru hikers would be targetted at all? Whats the reward? And P.S. there have been many instances of people becomiing victims of there own weapons, so I think your 100% number is a bit off. But still, I support and respect your right to carry, Im just against untrained people with weapons that arent prepared to use them.And I insist your brain is your best defense.

max patch
06-10-2011, 07:39
. "he" never saw any attacker(s). lotsa speculation...

yeah...from the trolls.

Lone Wolf
06-10-2011, 07:48
yeah...from the trolls.

i don't know what or who trolls are but i, like many, find the story fishy

general
06-10-2011, 08:55
Neither in these 11 pages, and nor in scores of pages in similar threads, no one has yet reported an incident in which a weapon had protected them from harm.

i wouldn't advertise the fact that i'd shown someone the business end of my pistol, if i had.

max patch
06-10-2011, 09:09
This whole "NB is a liar" fiasco reminds me of a couple months ago when weinstone made the allegation that crazyhair was not a navy seal and was a liar. After getting everyone in an uproar about "crazyhair the liar" the truth came out that crazyhair had been a navy seal and weinstone was wrong.

This is all just more WB BS.

Jack Tarlin
06-10-2011, 09:51
Hey, Max, quick point: When a crime, especially a crime of violence occurs on the A.T., it's really important that it be reported to local authorities so they can do their best to find the perpetrator and prevent future similar events. It's obviously in everyone's best interest that this take place immediately after the event in question. It'd also be helpful if the victim were to be forthcoming in providing helpful information to authorities and the public (like on websites such as this) so that folks can make rational sensible plans in regards to their traveling, trip itineraries, etc.

I am not sure that this has happened in this case. Was this alleged crime actually reported to local law enforcement after it took place? If not, why not?

There are indeed questions and issues about this incident that are troubling, and it's perfectly fair and appropriate to have that discussion here on Whiteblaze, and it's not "BS" for anyone to be expressing concern about this.

jbwood5
06-10-2011, 10:21
Hey, Max, quick point: When a crime, especially a crime of violence occurs on the A.T., it's really important that it be reported to local authorities so they can do their best to find the perpetrator and prevent future similar events. It's obviously in everyone's best interest that this take place immediately after the event in question. It'd also be helpful if the victim were to be forthcoming in providing helpful information to authorities and the public (like on websites such as this) so that folks can make rational sensible plans in regards to their traveling, trip itineraries, etc.

I am not sure that this has happened in this case. Was this alleged crime actually reported to local law enforcement after it took place? If not, why not?

There are indeed questions and issues about this incident that are troubling, and it's perfectly fair and appropriate to have that discussion here on Whiteblaze, and it's not "BS" for anyone to be expressing concern about this.

I concur (not meaning to answer for Max). Unfortunately, the previous assault (hiker bashing) was also not reported and only investigated when discovered by accident when the authorities found it on a cell phone video during a drug dealer bust.
Apparently the victims just don't want to get involved which is not good.