Starting Bag Rating?

[grandview]

If you've ever started North in April, what temp was your sleeping bag rated?

[Lone Wolf]

20 degree bag

[Jack Tarlin]

I agree with Wolf. More than this is usually overkill, and anything less will most likely leave you pretty unhappy, especially in the Smokies.

If you run into a period where it gets a bit under 20, you can always sleep in your hat, gloves, and other warm clothes.

But better to pay the very minor weight penalty and have a little too much bag than too little; you'll be switching out to a lighter-weight bag in a matter of weeks (most likely Bland or Pearisburg); if it does happen to get cold in the high country, you'll be VERY happy you carried the few extra ounces to obtain the extra warmth.

[DangerPea]

I am kinda cold ninny. I definitely had a little over kill whe I started in 2001 with a -20 down bag. I didn't think I ws going to need a mountaineering bag for godsakes, but I was happy to have till I got to Franklin & ditched it for a 20 degree. I twas pretty heavy, but I was so snuggly on first few cold wet nights in March.

It did get down to 2 degrees at ice water springs shelter though, and we had several nights in the teens. (I started march 1). What we did was put our tent on top of us & sleep in the shelter. We had condensate crystals, but didn't get wet.

This year however, I am starting with a 15 degree western mountaineering down bag. I do think that you will be just fine in a 20 degree bag though. You might have a few chilly nights, like already said, wear all your clothes, gloves, hat and you can put a hot water bottle in there with you and you will be fine.

You can also try to get a spot in the middle of a packed shelter, that should help some with insulation on uber cold nights. :D

[PROFILE]

I third the above suggestions. If you want to go to a warmer bag that would be fine but remember it snowed 4-8 " in Ga last April. So I would not go above 20 degree.

[vtpete]

In my 2003 hike I started out with a 5 degree North Face down bag which weighed a little over 3 lbs. I can remember at least one night when the temp was around 10 toward the end of March. I didn't bring a lot of winter clothes so my bag was my back up to week warm at night. Sure the temps in the south in the spring are usually in the 40's at night but you can get the occasional cold days.

I changed to a Campmor 20 degree down bag after Mount Rogers for the rest of the hike. This combination worked for me, I would not recommend starting out in mid to later March without at least a 10 degree bag.

VTPete

[rocket04]

I also agree with the 20 degree bag. There were a couple nights in April in '04 where the temperature dropped to 20s (maybe even a little below) in Georgia and in the Smokies.

[stickat04]

So a 20 degree bag with a liner and some warm clothes with hat and gloves might not make it for a 3/1 start?

[Youngblood]

Regardless of your sleeping bag rating, another thing to consider is that during winter storms, the weather is going to be more severe at the higher elevations. If you know you are going to be stuck out there in temperatures/conditions that worry you, see if you can camp at lower elevations on the leeward side of a mountain. A thousand feet or so in elevation can make a huge difference and staying out of the wind can also.

Youngblood

[A-Train]

So a 20 degree bag with a liner and some warm clothes with hat and gloves might not make it for a 3/1 start?

No that should be fine. I had exactly that (though I was never sure if my Ultralite was a 25 or 20 degree rating) when starting 3/1. Note I was a bit overkill on clothes with 3 long sleeve polypro shirts, a TNF Denali FLeece jacket, rain jacket, long underwear, rain pants, convertible pants, hat, socks, gloves, mitten covers and neck gaitor. I am a pretty cold sleeper though, so figure most people won't need as much. Most nights that were cold, I was fine, even in the smokies when it get really cold. I was misreble one night of my hike (the 2nd at Gooch Gap) where the temps were in the teens and much colder when factoring windchill. I used my space blanket that night (I was in a tent also) and still woke up shivering and drank water to get back to bed.

I'd be prepared, you can always send stuff home at Neals Gap or after the Smokies. Go outside and sleep in your yard for some test runs and see what works in what temps.

[gravityman]

So a 20 degree bag with a liner and some warm clothes with hat and gloves might not make it for a 3/1 start?

It's a little on the light side. You can expect some cold, hard nights (2-5?) on a normal year. (That's a guesstimate). If you can handle that, and are prepared to buy a warmer bag in case it is an abnormal year, then you will be fine. If that sounds unmanagable, go for a 10 degree or 0 degree bag.

As DangerPea said, we have the Western Mountaineering Superversalite (which is actually a 10 deg bag). We had the ultralights but decided that would be a little thin, and wanted to be more safe and less sorry.

Note : not all 20 degree bags are equal.

Gravity

[Footslogger]

Truthfully ...there's no way to know in advance without personally testing a few bags. What Gravity Man said is correct - - ALL 20 DEGREE BAGS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL. Likewise, not all people fell the same level of comfort from the same bag ...at ANY comfort rating level.

That said, I carried a 20 degree down bag from REI (Sub Kilo) in 2003 and it worked fine. I started 3/29 and we had snow/freezing temps the first night. The bag performed well but there were those nights when I had to wear a couple layers inside the bag, at least in the beginning. Once your body starts to throw out heat and it gets trapped in the dead air space of the bag you can generally take off some of the clothing.

Maybe more (or at least equally) important than rating is bag size. Get a bag that fits too tightly around your torso/shoulders and you're gonna get cold ...period, paragraph, end of subject !! Aside from the loft of the bag filler, what makes the bag work is the amount of dead air space. If your body is pressing too hard on the bag from there is inadequate dead air space and the insulation will be compressed. The result is transfer of the cold air directly from the outside to the inside.

Shop around and crawl inside several vendor/styles of bags. Get one that doesn't fit you like sausage casing. Then experiment with comfort rating. Some outfitters have bags for rent. Try out a couple different rating levels in actual conditions and then make your decision.

In the interest of weight, I would error a little on the cool side, since you can wear clothing inside the bag on the handfull of nights when necessary.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[max patch]

So a 20 degree bag with a liner and some warm clothes with hat and gloves might not make it for a 3/1 start?

I left 5/1 with a 20 degree bag and had some uncomfortable nights...snow flurries in the GSMNP which was a surprise...so if I was going to leave 3/1 personally I'd start with a 0 degree bag and switch later.

Of course, I'd never leave 3/1 because you'll most likely finish too early to experience hiking in New England in the Fall but thats a whole nother thread.

[A-Train]

Going off GM and Sloggers point that bags of equal rating are not as warm, keep in mind the quality of the down-fill. A 20 degree filled with 550 goose fill will most likely not be as warm or light as that of a bag with 700-800. This is what makes bags like Western Mountaineer so expensive, because they use fills of 800-900. This company also has a reputation for making the ratings on their bags conservative. Cheaper bags may do the opposite. Also depends on other features like the cut of the bag (mummy, rectangular) or whether it has a draft tube or hood.

Remember many outfitters, especially the bigger ones let you rent out gear. Might be a good idea before throwing the money down on a bag

[stickat04]

I should of posted I was using a Western Mountaineer 20 degree bag. I went with the campmor 20 degree last year in April and I was only cold 1 night. I bought the WM bag because it is a better bag and uses better fill 800 I believe campmor bag was 500-600 fill if I recall

[gravityman]

Maybe more (or at least equally) important than rating is bag size. Get a bag that fits too tightly around your torso/shoulders and you're gonna get cold ...period, paragraph, end of subject !! Aside from the loft of the bag filler, what makes the bag work is the amount of dead air space. If your body is pressing too hard on the bag from there is inadequate dead air space and the insulation will be compressed. The result is transfer of the cold air directly from the outside to the inside.



I agree with Footslogger's post. However, since it was mentioned, I thought that I would mention that western mountaineering has a differential cut on there bags, which means the inside lining is smaller than the outside lining. The point of this is so you can't compress the loft in their bags. The smaller fabric inside keeps you from doing this. It works pretty well, except for sharp knees or elbows that can cause some cold spots.

Also, dead air space inside the bag (not trapped in the insulation) is something WM (and Montbell) tries to avoid, because of the billowing effect (when you move around you push out the warm air and pull in cold). WM does it by cutting the bag girth smaller than most, but using a differential cut to keep you from compressing the loft. Montbell does it by putting elastic in their shell to "hug" you.

Gravity

[Kerosene]

I used a Western Mountaineering Ultralite (20*) last April, with early morning temperatures falling just below freezing. I seem to be one of the few people who haven't been warm in this bag, even though I was wearing all my extra clothing. I wished that I had brought my Marmot Pinnacle 15* bag, which seemed warmer. Maybe I'm just getting old.

[napster]

Most Of Ya Probably Already Know This. I Learned It The Hard Way But No Matter The Rating Of Bag That If You Do Not Completly Change Clothes Before Gettiing Into Your New Bag You Will Freeze Due To The Sweat You Get From Hiking And Sometimes If Ya Go Ultra Ultralite And Carry No Kind Of Sleep Jammies Specially Socks And Toboggin It Is Better To Sleep In The Raw Versus Moisture Ridden Clothes. I Have Used Leaves As Insulation Before Stuffing Them Betwen Inner And Outter Garments. This Will Creates The Same Insulation Barrier As Any Ivy Leauge Brand Clothing Or Bag. I Intend This Message Only When You Find Yoself Wearing All That You Got To Get A Semi Nites Sleep Due To Unexpected Cold Weather. Leaves Are More Uesful For Then Wiping.

[grandview]

to answer my own question...20 degree bag...and i have some military polypro as night clothes...seems to be the consensus more or less

[hustler]

I started March 1st with a 30 degree bag and it was fine. It got super cold a few times with record lows and I was always find.