mountain lion in Greenwich, CT

[hikerboy57]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06/09/turns-out-there-is-a-mountain-lion-in-greenwich/.
And just a few weeks ago, the eastern Mountain lion was declared extinct.

[Snowleopard]

You don’t want to act like a bunny.
Interesting. There have been a small number of confirmed mountain lions in the northeast. Most of those where DNA testing has been done are genetically related to South American cougars, so are likely escaped from a private zoo or are escaped pets. I think the closest wild populations are in the northern midwest and south Florida; they'll get here eventually, but it will take a while.

[Pedaling Fool]

"Ironically the Eastern mountain lion was officially declared extinct only a few months ago — in March."

That's funny:) I know, I know this could be an escaped lion from where ever, but I still don't discount all the eyewitnesses up and down the AT. I don't know if they're making a comeback, but I don't doubt if there are wild ones out there (other than the roaming Florida lions).

[skinewmexico]

The DEP will probably shoot it, found out it is an Eastern Mountain lion, and re-declare it extinct.

[Pedaling Fool]

Here's a local story with a video clip, but not video of the lion, just a fuzzy pic. http://www.necn.com/06/09/11/Mountain-lion-spotted-in-Connecticut/landing_newengland.html?blockID=533825&feedID=4206

[Rocket Jones]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06/09/turns-out-there-is-a-mountain-lion-in-greenwich/.
And just a few weeks ago, the eastern Mountain lion was declared extinct.

Well, you don't have to be a fanatic about it. ;)

-or-

Close enough for government work.

[leaftye]

And just a few weeks ago, the eastern Mountain lion was declared extinct.

And it may truly be extinct.

[hikerboy57]

And it may truly be extinct.
Im sure it still is. Ive seen coyote and bobcat, but dont know of anyone seeing one of these in the NE.

[leaftye]

Im sure it still is. Ive seen coyote and bobcat, but dont know of anyone seeing one of these in the NE.

Yeah, even if it's a real mountain lion, it might just be one from around here. Mountain lions do travel great distances. The local paper did a story on a young mountain lion that was killed that had traveled around much of San Diego County before it was shot at a young age. If you don't know, this county is HUGE. I don't know why a big cat would travel across the country, but they're certainly capable of traveling from here to there in it's lifetime, maybe even in just a year.

[Feral Bill]

I don't know why a big cat would travel across the country,.

Curiosity?:rolleyes:

[rsmout]

Here's hoping that mountain lion posts don't equal or exceed the number of posts on bears.

Maybe we can get one of the bear canister manufacturers to make a human size model, one that can be opened from the inside. But it would have to weigh less than a Remington 870 12 gauge tactical shorty. ;-)

[CrumbSnatcher]

Im sure it still is. Ive seen coyote and bobcat, but dont know of anyone seeing one of these in the NE.
your talkin about New England im sure, but to me NE. is Nebraska, and there was a big cat spotted here just last year(eastern side of the state)
i believe it was photo'd

[Enic]

your talkin about New England im sure, but to me NE. is Nebraska, and there was a big cat spotted here just last year(eastern side of the state)
i believe it was photo'd

I just assumed that NE meant North East... gotta love abbreviations. We may never know...

[hikerboy57]

I just assumed that NE meant North East... gotta love abbreviations. We may never know...
***?lol.hyoh. ne

[eric j]

The Loin was hit and killed by an suv last night on the Merrit Pky. Rt. 15. The DEC is already claiming the animal was released or escaped captivity. Will be interesting to follow this

[lutefisk]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06/09/turns-out-there-is-a-mountain-lion-in-greenwich/.
And just a few weeks ago, the eastern Mountain lion was declared extinct.
They are now... http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2011/06/11/mountain-lion-killed-in-rt-15-crash/

[berkshirebirder]

The Loin was hit and killed by an suv last night on the Merrit Pky.

Ouch......

[leaftye]

The Loin was hit

I hate it when that happens.

[hikerboy57]

The Loin was hit and killed by an suv last night on the Merrit Pky.

Ouch......
poor loin!
loin?

[WILLIAM HAYES]

probably a pet too bad

[Dogwood]

I'm feeling like grandpa in the "Moonstruck" kitchen scene at the end of the movie.

My bro used to live in uppity Greenwich and I worked there on some projects so I traveled the Merrit Pkwy in the vicinity of where this animal was struck by the SUV many times. It is very wooded along some stretches.

Was the animal actually a sub species of Puma concolor or a separate species of Puma as referred to in the article, as an Eastern Mountain Lion? What I'm asking, since the article mentioned the extinct Eastern Mountain Lion, is this actually a supposedly extinct species or subspecies or perhaps in greater likelyhood just a western cougar that's been located in the east?

[Snowleopard]

...
Was the animal actually a sub species of Puma concolor or a separate species of Puma as referred to in the article, as an Eastern Mountain Lion? What I'm asking, since the article mentioned the extinct Eastern Mountain Lion, is this actually a supposedly extinct species or subspecies or perhaps in greater likelyhood just a western cougar that's been located in the east?
I think they're all the same species, but there are genetic differences (subspecies). Some of the DNA testing of mountain lions in the Northeast (including Quebec) have shown that some of the lions are from South America, so very likely are escaped captive animals. The closest wild breeding populations are in Western Nebraska and south Florida, about 1500 miles.

[mattenylou]

Seems to be a lot of big cats roaming the NorthEast. Check out this forum at Northeast Cougar, interesting... http://northeastcougar.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=2

[Dogwood]

Eureka moment! TU Snow Leopard for the clarification.

[Shooting Star]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06/09/turns-out-there-is-a-mountain-lion-in-greenwich/.
And just a few weeks ago, the eastern Mountain lion was declared extinct.


Looks like they're extinct again...
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/11/connecticut.mountain.lion/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[bronconite]

A great website on the subject.

http://www.easterncougar.org/

[Buffalo Skipper]

The Florida Panther, is a subspecies of the Puma concolor. At their lowest, the population was down to under an estimated 100 animals which were a genetically isolated and unhealthy, inbred group. In a unique and singular experiment, 8 females from Texas were introduced to the population back in 1995. The results have been dramatic. The population has rebounded strongly and has spread. Once considered only to inhabit remote areas of Big Cypress Swamp and the Everglades, there have been sightings as far north as the Panhandle (more than 500 miles away)!

[Dogwood]

Bronconite, that link goes to an article that so aptly reveals how interconnected and broadly scoped the environment is! Thanks for sharing it. Hopefully, some will read it and learn something!

[canoehead]

A couple of years ago our neighbors horse was attacked & scratched up by one here in Chesterfield, MA. I also worked as a Ridgerunner for the AMC on the AT in the Sages Ravine area and saw one down near Jug End Rd. Last fall. They're here and have been for awhile now.

[WingedMonkey]

The Florida Panther, is a subspecies of the Puma concolor. At their lowest, the population was down to under an estimated 100 animals which were a genetically isolated and unhealthy, inbred group. In a unique and singular experiment, 8 females from Texas were introduced to the population back in 1995. The results have been dramatic. The population has rebounded strongly and has spread. Once considered only to inhabit remote areas of Big Cypress Swamp and the Everglades, there have been sightings as far north as the Panhandle (more than 500 miles away)!

Can you guide me to those facts? While there has been some recovery, "rebounded strongly" is not a term I've seen biologist use. Also I've seen no scientific reports of any verified Florida Panthers north of Lake Okeechobee. I'm always willing to read and learn more.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Winged monkey, I read those facts about a year ago, and I am working on finding the source for you. Numbers I recall reading were something close to the 250 range, but that does not match most of what I am finding right now.

As for reports in the panhandle, I have heard reports from numerous hunters (not of sightings, but of prints), and newspaper reports about 2 years ago mentioned a sighting north of Navarre, FL in Santa Rosa County. While hiking in a remote area of Walton County in March 2010, I came across a fresh set of prints which I took to be Florida Panther. The print was 3-4" across and was not a bear or coyote (the only other remotely similar sized pad-footed mammals in the area). The stride appeared to be a bit over a foot, maybe 14-15". I did not take pictures, but should have. This remote area bordered Eglin AFB, a wilderness area large enought to support this species. Obviously, my report is hearsay, but I do believe that what I saw was evidence of a Florida Panther.

I will try to find what I read some time ago.

[Snowleopard]

There was a cougar shot in Georgia a while ago. DNA testing showed that it was genetically from the south Florida panther population.

There have been experiments done to test the feasibility of reintroducing cougars to the Okeefenokee area; the conclusion was that it's suitable habitat. See pages 5 and 6 here: http://www.easterncougar.org/newltr_pdf/crfnew_May11.pdf

From memory, about 50 animals would be a minimum breeding population. The Florida panthers' population got low enough that its survival was pretty marginal because of inbreeding.

[WingedMonkey]

There was a cougar shot in Georgia a while ago. DNA testing showed that it was genetically from the south Florida panther population.

There have been experiments done to test the feasibility of reintroducing cougars to the Okeefenokee area; the conclusion was that it's suitable habitat. See pages 5 and 6 here: http://www.easterncougar.org/newltr_pdf/crfnew_May11.pdf

From memory, about 50 animals would be a minimum breeding population. The Florida panthers' population got low enough that its survival was pretty marginal because of inbreeding.

From http://easterncougar.org/CougarNews/?p=152


Further examination by The Southeastern Cooperative Wildlife Disease Study in Athens Monday afternoon confirmed the cougar to be healthy and well fed. Researchers determined the cougar had a very low parasite level and that the pads on all four feet were scuffed. According to SCWDS staff, these findings are consistent with a captive reared cougar, not a wild specimen.
Due to the fact that there are no known native populations of cougars in Georgia, no permitted cougars in this area and that the closest Alabama facilities permitted to house cougars (in Elmore and Macon Counties) have accounted for all permitted cougars, the animal taken Sunday likely escaped or was released from a non-permitted individual.

[Snowleopard]

and slightly newer info,

Cougar Shot in Western GA Last November was a Florida Panther, Aug 6th, 2009
...
Genetic testing by the National Cancer Institute, Laboratory of Genomic Diversity, has indicated that the panther shot by a hunter in Troup County last year came from the resident southern Florida panther population.

Because Florida panthers had not been documented in Georgia in years, it was initially thought that this animal might have escaped or have been intentionally released from captivity. With the genetic confirmation that the animal is a Florida panther, it is possible that this animal traveled from south Florida to Georgia.

“We have had evidence (road kill) of Florida panthers as far north as the Florida panhandle,” said Tim Breault, Director of Division of Habitat and Species Conservation, Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. “Young males, in an attempt to develop their own territory, will often wander far from their home range. We think this may have been the case in this situation.”
http://easterncougar.org/CougarNews/?p=774

This does not necessarily contradict WingedMonkey's last post. The cougar was genetically from the Florida Panther population, but could well have been an escaped captive animal.

Young males sometimes travel long distances, though to Greenwich, CT, is probably further than they travel. If there were a viable breeding population in the northeast there would be lots of evidence (frequent roadkills, game cameras, hunters killing them).

That Eastern Cougar site has lots of interesting info.

[WingedMonkey]

I should say I'm all in favor of cougar reintroduction in the Okefenokee basin. One of my Florida ancestry lines comes out of there about 150 years ago. Hey, they still had them then and probably helped kill them off. I doubt however that it will happen in the near future if at all. There are people now in south west Florida that already think the Florida Panthers are going to be coming after them or their livestock, and didn't view the recent increase in their count as good news.
The recent count used has been 100-120 in Florida. The new count by the Game Commission for 2011 is now up to 163. Sure there may be more. They use different counts and formulas to come up with that number, and have not been checking all private lands. About 20 a year are killed, 14 of them by cars.
Here is a paper on how they come up with the estimated population:
http://easterncougar.org/CougarNews/?p=152

It's the same report as on the Florida Game and Wildlife Commission page, but their sites have been down all day.

[Cookerhiker]

The CT cougar made NPR's All Things Considered (http://www.npr.org/2011/06/16/137231323/suburbs-riled-by-mountain-lion-reports) this afternoon.

[Pedaling Fool]

Is there any thing in the news about DNA results? This is the latest story I've seen http://www.acorn-online.com/joomla15/monroecourier/news/localnews/97420-mountain-lion-update-sample-of-animal-scat-from-greenwich-shows-it-is-not-from-a-mountain-lion.html

[Pedaling Fool]

This story mentions the Connecticut cat, but it's more about how the population is exploding in the midwest. What I find interesting is how little is known about the cat and how much the population has grown in a relatively short time.

http://news.yahoo.com/study-cougars-again-spreading-across-midwest-073228950.html

Study: Cougars again spreading across Midwest

ST. LOUIS (AP) — Cougars are again spreading across the Midwest a century after the generally reclusive predators were hunted to near extinction in much of the region, according to a new study billed as the first rigorous statistical look at the issue.

The findings, detailed in The Journal of Wildlife Management, showed 178 cougar confirmations in the Midwest and as far south as Texas between 1990 and 2008. While confirmed sightings of Midwest cougars were sporadic before 1990, when there were only a couple, that number spiked to more than 30 by 2008, the study shows.

Researchers said the study poses fresh questions about how humans and livestock can co-exist with the re-emerging predators, whose movements appear to be following natural dispersal instincts.

The study sorts through various reported sightings and affixes a number to those it could confirm, which is significant because no government agency tracks the number of large cats across the country. Wildlife officials have for years said it's unclear how many of the animals may be in the Midwest, where they are not federally protected and, in some states, can be hunted.

"We (now) know there are a heck of a lot more cougars running around the Midwest than in 1990," said Clay Nielsen, a Southern Illinois University wildlife ecologist who co-authored the report while heading the nonprofit Cougar Network's scientific research. "We've got an interesting and compelling picture to talk about now.

"For those who are excited about the notion of living with large carnivores, this is great," Nielsen added. "For those worried about livestock degradations, there's going to be division in the ranks in the Midwest. It's going to be interesting to see how the public responds if this colonizing continues."

In the study, researchers relied on carcasses, cougar DNA from scat and hair samples, animal tracks, photos, video and instances of attacks on livestock across 14 states and Canadian provinces to measure the number of cougars east of the Rocky Mountains.

Scientists long had suspected that cougars were migrating from the West or South Dakota's Black Hills mountain range, where populations of the big, long-tailed cats have been so abundant that the state has staged a yearly hunting season targeting mountain lions since 2005. The study excluded confirmations from the Black Hills, given that state's bounty of the cats.

Of the cougar confirmations by researchers, roughly 62 percent took place within some 12 miles of habitat considered suitable for the animals' populations. Sixty-seven of the confirmations were in Nebraska, 31 in North Dakota, 12 each in Oklahoma and Texas, 11 in South Dakota and 10 in Missouri. Single-digit tallies were in Arkansas,
Louisiana, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Kansas and Michigan.

Researchers theorize cougars are inhabiting the Midwest again following a "stepping stone" dispersal pattern — moving out of a dense population, stopping at the closest patch of available habitat and examining it for mates and prey before moving on. One male cougar made its way as far as Connecticut, where it was hit and killed by a vehicle.

Such cougar dispersal "is what they're programmed to do. Young mammals, even young humans, tend to move away from home," said Paul Beier, a Northern Arizona University conservation biology professor who studies cougars. "They once occupied the midwestern U.S. There's still some appropriate habitat, and this is how they'll find it."

Cougars are known to be largely secretive and mostly keep to riverbanks and wooded areas, usually avoiding humans while feeding on deer, turkeys and raccoons.

But at times, the predators have drifted into populated areas. Police in Santa Monica, Calif., last month killed a 95-pound mountain lion that roamed into a downtown area — the first such sighting in that city in more than three decades — and Chicago police in 2008 shot and killed a 150-pound cougar in an alley on the city's North Side.

The study's findings come as little surprise to Bill Jorgenson, a North Dakotan who came face to face in January of last year with a 130-pound female cougar and her three cubs in a storage barn on his property, where he has 20 horses and some 1,000 head of cattle.

Fearing for his safety, Jorgenson shot and killed the animals.

"They're so thick out here, it's unbelievable," Jorgenson, 58, said of the mountain lions he blames for "wiping out" the deer population around his home near the 1,700-resident town of Watford City. "Two years ago, it'd be nothing to see 200 to 300 mule deer out there; this past winter, we never saw more than 20. We have carcasses all over where they've been killed."

Missouri's Department of Conservation said recently the 14 confirmed cougar sightings in that state this year compares to a dozen cougars confirmed there over the previous 16 years.

Since 1996, Missouri has deployed a specially trained, evidence-collecting "Mountain Lion Response Team" of wildlife experts, law enforcers and biologists whenever there's a credible sighting of cougars.

[Incahiker]

Only thing I gotta add is when I was riding through the Talledega national forest fire roads in Alabama about 4 years ago , I came around a corner and there was a Mountain lion in the middle of the road walking. It turned as soon as I rounded the corner and I stopped. We looked at each other for about 4 seconds (really long time) and then with one leap it was all the way off the road. The creepy thing is there was not a lot of vegetation on the side of the road but it literally disappeared as soon as it jumped into the woods. I couldn't see any trees moving or hear anything. I realized it could be just laying off the side of the road waiting, so I gunned the throttle and was outta there. But it was most definitely a large mountain lion with a long tail.

[Snowleopard]

Is there any thing in the news about DNA results? ...
Since this thread has resurfaced, the Connecticut mountain lion did get its DNA tested and it was genetically from the northern midwest population. In fact, DNA testing found that that specific lion was seen en route (I think in the Adirondacks).

[Hairbear]

Some dumb ass amish killed one amile and a half from my home in north east mo.the cons. dept said it was geneticly linked to a population in south dakota. The rumor is that conservation dept from other states are working together to repopulte these animals ,but maintaining the deniability factor. I have seen a game camera photo that plainly shows a tracking collar.

[marshbirder]

Since this thread has resurfaced, the Connecticut mountain lion did get its DNA tested and it was genetically from the northern midwest population. In fact, DNA testing found that that specific lion was seen en route (I think in the Adirondacks).

The Greenwich mountain lion came from the Black Hills in South Dakota and was first sighted in Minnesota.

He went out for a walk looking for a territory or a lady cat and went a little too far...

[Tri-Pod Bob]

A couple of years ago our neighbors horse was attacked & scratched up by one here in Chesterfield, MA. I also worked as a Ridgerunner for the AMC on the AT in the Sages Ravine area and saw one down near Jug End Rd. Last fall. They're here and have been for awhile now.
I'm also in WMass.....posted in another thread on big cats here.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?96972-Coyote-attacks-2-yr-old-girl&p=1506466#post1506466