Down sleeping bag....yes or no?

[Hotfoot_1]

I have read all about down bags vs. synthetic bags. I have less than 200 dollars to spend on a bag. I know bags like the Wild Bill and Marmot Trestles 15 would suffice for the section hikes that I do, but I like the idea of being able to get a 20 degree down bag (Campmor bag, say) into the sleeping bag compartment of my pack without smashing the hell out of the bag (which is what I've done with the synthetic bags I have used).

Ther real issue is this: is there any reason other than cost that I should NOT go with down?

Thanks for the input.

[Lone Wolf]

I've hiked thousands of miles on the AT and never owned a down bag. Synthetic works fine. For me.

[A-Train]

I don't know to me there is no other way to go besides down. I use synthetic for a flimsy summer bag, but for temps in the 20's I wanna have a down bag. There are many places to save money but i don't think a sleeping bag is one, personally. To me the most important thing is staying warm at night. Anyway, nothing wrong with the 20 degree down Campmor bag. For price and weight u cant beat it

[SGT Rock]

I'm on the other side from LWolf. Although I don't have thousands of miles, I have been using down since 1984 or so with only one bad experience the entire time, and that was during the learning phase.

There I was...

1985 and I set up my tent in a nice flat spot, not considering the spot was probably flat because that is where the water formed a nice pool when it rained, until I woke up in 3" of water. Any bag would have been up S___T creek at that point.

[kncats]

If you have problems keeping your stuff dry then you ought to stay away from down. Other than that, you're going to get a higher quality bag for the same price by going with synthetic over down when money is really an issue. I have seen a lot of people say good things about the Campmor down bags. Campmor has their 20 degree down bag on sale right now for $110. You'll pay $40 more, save 12 ounces and have a much smaller package. Some one else will have to comment on the quality of the Campmor bag. I have a Wild Bill that I don't use any more, but it was a good bag until I could afford a quality down one.

[Lone Wolf]

I just might have to consider a new Campmor down bag.

[The Will]

Hotfoot,

There are some that will argue against down on the basis that it is nearly useless as an insulation when wet, while synthetics maintain a significant portion of their insulating properties...a legitimate argument. However, it would be truly exceptional circumstances in which a down bag was wet-out to the point of dysfunction. With a little discernment upon the part of the user (highly water resistant stuff sack, pack cover, proper shelter location and appropriate pitch), this should be a non-issue.



Your down bag will likely be an investment that lasts a lifetime, so don't let cost be prohibitive.



As for your budget of $200. There should be no problem in acquiring a quality bag in that price range. Do some sale shopping at the following sites and you will be rewarded with a quality product that weighs less than a synthetic of comparable warmth and packs much smaller.


REI.com
mgear.com
sierratradingpost.com

[Lilred]

I don't know to me there is no other way to go besides down. I use synthetic for a flimsy summer bag, but for temps in the 20's I wanna have a down bag. There are many places to save money but i don't think a sleeping bag is one, personally. To me the most important thing is staying warm at night. Anyway, nothing wrong with the 20 degree down Campmor bag. For price and weight u cant beat it


Yup, I agree. I've said it before here. I have the 20* Campmor bag and love it. Smartest purchase of gear I've made when comparing cost to weight and effectiveness. Second only to my alcohol stove. :D

[steve hiker]

One thing to think about. Where do down feathers come from? What smell would a hungry bear go absolutely ape about on a cold night?

:banana HOT WINGS:banana

[Hotfoot_1]

LWolf -

Where do you put your bag when hiking, in the pack with compression stuff sack or in it's stuff sack attached to the exterior of the pack?

[Lone Wolf]

Inside bottom of my Gregory Shasta pack in a regular stuff sack.

[hikerjohnd]

I just switched from synthetic to down this year (fall 2004). I can't believe I waited so long! Space in the pack aside, I have found my down bag to be softer and more comfortable than any synthetic I have owned.

[TDale]

I just got the 20* campmor down bag. It's my first down bag. The stitching and construction quality is excellent. I'm taking it out this weekend for a two-nite test. Comfortwise, it's like laying in a warm cloud.

[SGT Rock]

There are lots of ways to get a good down bag cheap.I remember a couple of years back Marmot changing their Arroyo in some way and REI was almost giving the old model away. Just don't be in a hurry and shop around.

Come to think of it, seems like in one of my web searches recently I saw a site that had Western Mountaineering bags on clearance. You cant beat them for quality.

[Lone Wolf]

TDale, regular or long?

[SGT Rock]

Here you go: http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/bagdetail.cfm/MA1801

Can't beat this deal.

[Kerosene]

If you're the typical AT hiker, by all means, go with a down bag. Now look for the highest quality down (as far above 600 as you can afford) in a well constructed bag at the temperature rating and weight you want. Here is a 2.5 pound, 650-fill, 20-degree Moonstone Muir Trail bag on sale for $165 (regularly $235): http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/bagdetail.cfm/MOON300, but if you can get away with a 30-degree bag (for May-August hiking at moderate elevations), then Sgt. Rock's suggestion saves you half a pound!

[Hotfoot_1]

Sgt Rock,

Nice bag, thanks. 30 degree rating on that bag. I was on the AT in December with a Marmot Trestles 15 degree bag and wound up sleeping in full fleece with a hat on and wool socks, still a little chilled. I sleep cold, so I was looking for at least a 20 degree bag.......not that temp ratings mean a whole lot, I figure with synthetic bags you can easily tack 10 degrees on to whatever rating the bag claims.....not sure how that game plays out with down.

[The Old Fhart]

There are good reasons to use either type of bag depending on what you want. For the same rating, the down bag will be be more expensive, the synthetic will be bulkier and heavier. Also keep in mind if a down bag gets wet it is almost useless and heavy and takes a long time to dry. A synthetic will absorb far less water and still give some insulation from the cold.

Having said that, I have a L.L.Bean 35 degree down I've used on a thru in 1998 and still use and I have had no problems. I keep it inside 2 plastic bags inside a waterproof stuff sack. I found I could use this bag inside my tent down to about 25 degrees before I needed to put extra clothes on. With any bag I'd suggest trying it at home outside at its rating to see how it is going to work with your metabolism.

I use a thin nylon liner I made inside the bag to keep it cleaner longer and I'd recommend that with any bag. I't is easier to wash the liner than the bag. The liner will add a couple of degrees to the rating. I washed the bag in regular washing machines on the trail and at home although many people don't recommend that. Check the instructions for you bag before you clean it.

Oh, I might add I bought the LLB down bag at their outlet store in Freeport for $50 about 10 years ago.

[SGT Rock]

Ha, my reference to the same site is a bag regularly $260 for $140 with +800 down for less than 2 pounds.

NyaNya! :p

[neo]

i have 3 down bags all less than 200.00 bucks,kelty lightyear 25 150.00 2 lbs 2 oz kelty lightyear 45 on sale 80.00 1 lb 14 oz expeed wallcreeper close out 120.00 2 lbs 3 oz.:sun neo

[TDale]

TDale, regular or long?
Long, I'm 6' 1" tall and got plenty of room.

[jackiebolen]

The longer I hike the more obsessed I become with lightening up the old pack...maybe my body justs gets older and in that sense needs to go light. Anyway, nothing beats down for weight factor and long-term durability. So light, so warm...it's where it's at.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

If you're the typical AT hiker, by all means, go with a down bag. Now look for the highest quality down (as far above 600 as you can afford) in a well constructed bag at the temperature rating and weight you want. Here is a 2.5 pound, 650-fill, 20-degree Moonstone Muir Trail bag on sale for $165 (regularly $235): http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/bagdetail.cfm/MOON300, but if you can get away with a 30-degree bag (for May-August hiking at moderate elevations), then Sgt. Rock's suggestion saves you half a pound!
I use the same bag, previously called a 650 zone 3. I heartily endorse it for quality, loft, and warmth although I'm a cold sleeper and always use a Jagbags silk liner. I'm unashamed to be a big fan of almost everything Moonstone makes. I guess it's a Ford/Chevy thing.
There's a very good set of pictures of this particular bag at the following link:
http://backcountry-equipment.com/slpng_bg/moonstone_muirtrail.php

[Lone Wolf]

OK. I took A-Train's and others advice. I just ordered the Campmor 20deg. goose down bag. $115.95 total. Now that I'm 52 lbs. less than I was 6 months ago, I'm feeling the cold. But I'm concerned. Were any gooses harmed in the manufacturing of these bags? :cool:

[SGT Rock]

Yes, lots of them. And they also tasted really lood later.

[JP]

I've never used down. But I got a Western Mountainering Highlite, 220+tax. I wont have an opinion till next year. I like the weight though. Old habits are just hard to break, I just now got some synthetic long jons.

[TDale]

OK. I took A-Train's and others advice. I just ordered the Campmor 20deg. goose down bag. $115.95 total. Now that I'm 52 lbs. less than I was 6 months ago, I'm feeling the cold. But I'm concerned. Were any gooses harmed in the manufacturing of these bags? :cool:
Look for the little can of foi gras inside the stuff sack.

:D

[Lone Wolf]

Foi gras? Help a brother out. My Russian is bad. :)

[TDale]

http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/g.cgi?g=440&r=103776

[Lone Wolf]

******* yuppie food. That and sushi. :D

[TDale]

If you catch the fish, sushi ain't yuppie food.

[The Will]

OK. I took A-Train's and others advice. I just ordered the Campmor 20deg. goose down bag. $115.95 total. Now that I'm 52 lbs. less than I was 6 months ago, I'm feeling the cold. But I'm concerned. Were any gooses harmed in the manufacturing of these bags? :cool:
Lone Wolf, I think you're asking this a bit tongue-in-cheek, not sure though...But just for informations sake, as I understand it, high quality goose down (all this 750+ stuff) is procured from mature geese that are saved for breeding, while the lower quality downs (perhaps 650 and lower fill power) is taken from geese on their way to slaughter. It seems I read this in a Feathered Friends catalog some time ago.

[Lone Wolf]

Yup. Tongue-in-cheek. But good info anyway.

[swamp dawg]

I have both types of bags but I don't feel as safe with a down bag. I once got flooded while on the trail using a synthetic bag. I just squeezed out the bag and most of my gear the next morning. The next night was somewhat damp but by the next morning my body heat had dried out the bag. I used my down bag in the Whites and had no problem but the Pertex cover was damp. Someone suggested that I use a Gortex type cover but that adds extra weight. Given that you get a fair amount of rain on the trail, although I love the down, when in doubt I use the heavier synthetic bag.

[steve hiker]

As a newbie hiker five or so years ago, I started out with a synthetic bag. It was cheap, but also heavy and took up lots of pack space. Then one day I saw a TNF Blue Kazoo on sale for $100 at my local outfitter. (Weird name, but it's a hell of a good bag.) I snapped it up and it's a dream. There is nothing as toasty and comfortable as sleeping in down. Like being draped in clouds from heaven.

I'll never, ever buy a synthetic bag again. Down rocks.

[wacocelt]

OK, one of you down bag enthuisiasts PROMISE me that it won't rain as much this year as it did in 03' and I'll buy a down bag. Until then I'll happily recall 30 degree nights with rain blowing directly into the shelter and sleeping naked inside my 15 degree 4.5lb $39 Campmor bag. I woke up every morning warm and if it didn't rain directly on me the whole night, dry as well.

I only hiked a month in 03' and I'm still scarred.

[ed bell]

My wife Gutsy hiked in 03', it was insane how much it rained. I don't know how some folks coped. She had a down bag, but slept in her TNF Canyonlands each night. To tell you the truth, it takes a LOT of water to compromise a bag. I agree that a windy, rainy night in a shelter can be trouble. I think its more a matter of being cautious though.

[Hotfoot_1]

Thanks everyone for great information. I appreciate all the input and points of view. Time to find a down bag.........

[SGT Rock]

My wife Gutsy hiked in 03', it was insane how much it rained. I don't know how some folks coped. She had a down bag, but slept in her TNF Canyonlands each night. To tell you the truth, it takes a LOT of water to compromise a bag. I agree that a windy, rainy night in a shelter can be trouble. I think its more a matter of being cautious though.

LOL, don't sleep in a shelter.Them dang things are missing a whole wall.:datz

[prozac]

Just looking to keep this thread alive. I've spent all winter looking at new gear and need a new bag. Narrowed it down to 3 bags but I am leaning toward Marmot Helium. Haven't read one negative comment on this bag but was hoping to get a little feedback on it here at Whiteblaze. I'm a cold sleeper and am looking for something 15F to 20F range. This is definately the lightest bag in that range that I could find but isn't cheap. Then again, if it keeps me warm for the next ten years its money well spent. So, whats your favorite down bag and why?

[Mike]

I have a marmot helium (circa 2002 I think). Got it on closeout from EMS for a good price. My biggest problem with the bag is the lack of a full zip. I find it hard to regulate temperature on warmer nights. I have been thinking about finding somebody to modify the bag to have a full zip.

Otherwise, the bags dimensions are wonderful. I am 6'1", large frame, 240 ish. I got the long bag and really like how it fits. My old TNF cats meow is like a straight jacket compared to my Helium.

Great bag, great dimensions, hood works great.... but I would prefer the full zip.

[prozac]

Thanx for the info Mike. Didn't really think the 1/2 zip would be an issue but now I'm wondering. Now I'm considering choice #2, the Mountainsmith Vision +15. Same weight as Marmot Helium but has 3/4 zipper. Bag is obviously not as nice as the Helium but is considerably cheaper. Retails for 299$ at most places but I found it online for 199$ and eBay even has it for 159$. So before I pull the trigger on this bag, anybody who already has one I'd appreciate the pros and cons on this bag. Thanx in advance, Prozac.

[lightning]

I have had a Moonstone Dryloft 10-25deg 800 for years and love it. I'm somewhat comforted and impressed by the dryloft fabric, but it adds weight and $$$. The Kelty 45 650 is good too; one time, however, it got dampened inside a tent without the fly on (humidity? dew? weird). I still own a TNF Cat's Meow but haven't used it in years.
Does anyone have experience with the Montbell line of down bags? (I've heard good things about the company.)

[fiddlehead]

I have 3 bags: 20 deg.(i use 80 % of the time , 0 degree for winter hiking, and minus 35 degree for the himalayas or anything below 0 F (i sleep cold) they are all down. I believe that any synthetic bag with comparable warmth would be at least a lb. heavier and perhaps as much as 4 lbs heavier for my big bag.
I don't know a disadvantage of down. People say they don't keep you warm when wet. well, that depends on how wet. (if 2 bags are submerged under water for more than 5 minutes, would you rather sleep in the down, or synthetic) in hot weather, my down bag sometimes retains some moisture from my body but i always buy the thinnest, most breathable outside shell that i can. (I don't believe that these "dryloft" shells will let out the moisture you give off during the night which means they will get heavier and heavier as you go.)
Anyway, I also believe that a bag has to fit you like a glove to be maximum efficiency. If you are going to buy a bag that is going to last you for 4 or 5 thru-hikes, you should try it on first. Wasted space in a bag is heat loss. My "Feathered Friends" "Hummingbird" fits me and has lasted 4 hikes now and still is going strong. I wash it about 3 to 4 times a hike and fluff it with my running shoes in the dryer. The only problem i see with this bag is the half zipper (saved some weight there but when it's hot, i wish i could unzip it more) and the price $300+ (i got the 750 down) (that was in 96, i don't know what their best is now, but i'd get it) weight: 1 lb 12 oz.