View Full Version : Dead beat hiker
I wanted to caution all hikers and hostel operators regarding a problem hiker. If anyone encounters an older hiker known as PAPA SMURF (aka Clay Gardner), be careful in your dealings with him. This hiker was picked up by MT. ROSE and came to our hostel. He is a war vet, so we extended him some courtesy as he was broke and was waiting for his military disability check to come on July 1st. Just before dark on the 29th after spending 2 weeks with us he slipped out and headed north, leaving with a very large unpaid food / lodging tab. He did do some work for stay while here, but still left owing over $200.00 for various things he received while he was here. I did some research and apparently he has done the same thing in the south. I just wanted to let people know, not to put much trust in this individual.
I met Papa Smurf in the Smokies and although he can be a nice enough guy, I would second Birchy's comments and say just be careful. At the time he had been "adopted by the Circus" which was a band of partyin' kids from New Orleans I believe. Not sure if they're all still together.
greenmtnboy
06-30-2011, 14:50
People need to be on a "pay as you go" basis. I have met hikers who were "going on faith"--i.e. God will provide. Faith or presumption? The latter is sinful.
Also there are scam solicitations. "Please help!" We're stranded and starving, here is the Western Union information...Sorry, please glom onto someone else.
I was surprised to receive this S.O.S. from someone who had done decent work on a piece of equiptment for me:
"Apologies for having to reach out to you like this, I made a trip early this week to England, UK and had my bag stolen from me with my passport,credit cards and personal belongings in it.
Unfortunately for me, I can't have access to funds without my credit card, I've made contact with my bank but they need more time to come up with a new one. I was thinking of asking you to lend me some quick funds that I can give back as soon as I get in. I really need to be on the next available flight and clear other expenses."
Initially I felt some sympathy, but as I had received it a while after it was sent (an infrequently used email) it was irrelevant at that point.
Feral Bill
06-30-2011, 15:38
People need to be on a "pay as you go" basis. I have met hikers who were "going on faith"--i.e. God will provide. Faith or presumption? The latter is sinful.
Also there are scam solicitations. "Please help!" We're stranded and starving, here is the Western Union information...Sorry, please glom onto someone else.
I was surprised to receive this S.O.S. from someone who had done decent work on a piece of equiptment for me:
"Apologies for having to reach out to you like this, I made a trip early this week to England, UK and had my bag stolen from me with my passport,credit cards and personal belongings in it.
Unfortunately for me, I can't have access to funds without my credit card, I've made contact with my bank but they need more time to come up with a new one. I was thinking of asking you to lend me some quick funds that I can give back as soon as I get in. I really need to be on the next available flight and clear other expenses."
Initially I felt some sympathy, but as I had received it a while after it was sent (an infrequently used email) it was irrelevant at that point. The person who the work for you got hacked. It's happened to friends of mine. We got their plea for help from London while they were sitting in the same room with us. Standard scam, I'm afraid.
kayak karl
06-30-2011, 16:36
in business we learn from our mistakes. take this as a learning experience and grow up, shut up and move on. it was YOUR fault.
Cookerhiker
06-30-2011, 16:44
The person who the work for you got hacked. It's happened to friends of mine. We got their plea for help from London while they were sitting in the same room with us. Standard scam, I'm afraid.
Same here - I also got the e-mail. Too many things didn't seem right so I figured it was a scam. The "victim" friend sent out a notice the following day confirming that someone had hacked his e-mail.
Mother Natures Son
06-30-2011, 17:02
The same can be said for "others" on and off the trail. We once meet a hostel manager (no names here) who did up the act, "I am a little old lady stuck up on this mt. I you don't give, the hostel will close. It needs x.... We and other hikers fell for stories. Gave money, help out when we could. We found out later and saw this with our own eyes, this person lining her pockets with the donated cash and never to be used for its real purposes. The moral of the story don't believe all you see. There are some real sharks out there who will take advantage of hikers because they know they have money, at least some of us do.
kayak karl
06-30-2011, 17:07
real sharks out there who will take advantage of hikers because they know they have money, at least some of us do.
shame on you, you need a little street smarts on the trail. YOU are what is known as a Mark. OH, and ty for being out there for us :)
BobTheBuilder
06-30-2011, 17:28
in business we learn from our mistakes. take this as a learning experience and grow up, shut up and move on. it was YOUR fault.
The OP wasn't whining or asking for anything, he was trying to give help to those business owners further up the trail. Like Dr. John says, "Peace brother, peace."
in business we learn from our mistakes. take this as a learning experience and grow up, shut up and move on. it was YOUR fault.
You're kidding, right? You're not seriously blaming the hostel owner for getting ripped off by a hiker, are you?
kayak karl
06-30-2011, 17:43
The OP wasn't whining or asking for anything, he was trying to give help to those business owners further up the trail. Like Dr. John says, "Peace brother, peace."
Dr john who?. every year we hear this whining of people that can't run a business. BO WHO. who cares. send the word on the hostel e-mail train, but i don't care. i also don't belief what happened, happened. are there police reports. if so post.
the OP was whining..........................
Heh, I'd be whining too if a hiker ripped me off for $200.
kayak karl
06-30-2011, 17:45
You're kidding, right? You're not seriously blaming the hostel owner for getting ripped off by a hiker, are you?
yes i am, when you put your self in that spot you WILL be ripped off. GROW UP.
Hmmm... anyone that even thinks that way wouldn't be welcome in my place.
Find some other deck to hammock under.
kayak karl
06-30-2011, 17:51
the point im making is, good business practices would not allow a person to get behind $200. at that point you should see the light.
the point im making is, good business practices would not allow a person to get behind $200. at that point you should see the light.
Yeah, Birchy fell for a story and trusted a hiker and a vet (who has a monthly check coming), but he didn't deserve getting ripped off or getting told to GROW UP.
Wise Old Owl
06-30-2011, 18:00
KK that wasn't necessary.
Cookerhiker
06-30-2011, 18:01
.... We found out later and saw this with our own eyes, this person lining her pockets with the donated cash and never to be used for its real purposes. ....
Are you describing a hostel or the LA Dodgers?:D
kayak karl
06-30-2011, 18:07
Yeah, Birchy fell for a story and trusted a hiker and a vet (who has a monthly check coming), but he didn't deserve getting ripped off or getting told to GROW UP.
i agree, but GROW UP. Ive been ripped off in the construction trade so many time. i needed to grow up and know these people were out there. it heightened my seances. be aware. u8se your street smarts. you will be able to filter the posers from the real hikers. if you act like its NOT your fault, you will never solve the problem.
Are you describing a hostel or the LA Dodgers?:D
Too funny !!!!
For all you out there (esp.. Sly), who understand, THANK YOU. The worse part is that my mother was the one who met this individual in town and offered him a ride back to the trail. When he found out that we had a hostel he asked if he could stay. Who would say NO to a WAR VET ??? For those that hate this country that much, move to IRAQ.
Birchy, I for one appreciate your post.
Who would say NO to a WAR VET ???
That depends, is Kayak Karl a war vet? ;)
kayak karl
06-30-2011, 18:30
is the op telling the truth? police reports? i think somebody had a bad day!
in business we learn from our mistakes. take this as a learning experience and grow up, shut up and move on. it was YOUR fault.
The original post was a heads up for a guy on trail that may take advantage of others in one way or another. I see nothing wrong with that. It's simple information. What's up with the rude
business consultation bit?
kayak karl
06-30-2011, 18:40
The original post was a heads up for a guy on trail that may take advantage of others in one way or another. I see nothing wrong with that. It's simple information. What's up with the rude
business consultation bit?
because this ain't nothing new. stupid business owners posting their stupid mistakes.
The State Police did take a report, and legal action will likely follow. I'm not happy about that, but that was MT. ROSE'S call, I will not post any report they are available through the PA Judicial Website, and I have no obligation to prove anything to the public. The post was a cautionary warning, take it has you will..... KK
lush242000
06-30-2011, 19:08
I wanted to caution all hikers and hostel operators regarding a problem hiker. If anyone encounters an older hiker known as PAPA SMURF (aka Clay Gardner), be careful in your dealings with him. This hiker was picked up by MT. ROSE and came to our hostel. He is a war vet, so we extended him some courtesy as he was broke and was waiting for his military disability check to come on July 1st. Just before dark on the 29th after spending 2 weeks with us he slipped out and headed north, leaving with a very large unpaid food / lodging tab. He did do some work for stay while here, but still left owing over $200.00 for various things he received while he was here. I did some research and apparently he has done the same thing in the south. I just wanted to let people know, not to put much trust in this individual.
I met a section hiker named Papa Smurf last week on Whitetop Mtn. I'm guessing there are a couple of people going by that name. This cat was cool and doing a two week section hike.
Lord Helment
06-30-2011, 19:16
thanks for the heads up birchy
Cookerhiker
06-30-2011, 19:27
I met a section hiker named Papa Smurf last week on Whitetop Mtn. I'm guessing there are a couple of people going by that name. This cat was cool and doing a two week section hike.
Some WBers may know that the Fontana Hilton shelter was built by a crew led by another Papa Smurf. This Papa Smurf founded and still runs Sheltowee Trace Outfitters (http://www.ky-rafting.com/) which leads raft trips on the Cumberland River and other expeditions in the Cumberland Falls, Daniel Boone NF, and Big South Fork area. He also generously supports the Sheltowee Trace by letting maintainers camp at his place and shuttling them to trailheads.
What's the one thing all Papa Smurf's have in common? A really lame trail name. :D (the new whiteblaze needs to work on its smileys)
HiKen2011
06-30-2011, 19:31
Some WBers may know that the Fontana Hilton shelter was built by a crew led by another Papa Smurf. This Papa Smurf founded and still runs Sheltowee Trace Outfitters (http://www.ky-rafting.com/) which leads raft trips on the Cumberland River and other expeditions in the Cumberland Falls, Daniel Boone NF, and Big South Fork area. He also generously supports the Sheltowee Trace by letting maintainer camp at his place and shuttling them to trailheads.
First off thanks for the heads up for others and next, we all at some capacity have been screwed before! I know I have, learned from that and moved on. Lastly, I'm sorry for you're financial loss and I would have done the same thing. Cheers
Cookerhiker
06-30-2011, 19:36
I wanted to caution all hikers and hostel operators regarding a problem hiker. If anyone encounters an older hiker known as PAPA SMURF (aka Clay Gardner), be careful in your dealings with him. This hiker was picked up by MT. ROSE and came to our hostel. He is a war vet, so we extended him some courtesy as he was broke and was waiting for his military disability check to come on July 1st. Just before dark on the 29th after spending 2 weeks with us he slipped out and headed north, leaving with a very large unpaid food / lodging tab. He did do some work for stay while here, but still left owing over $200.00 for various things he received while he was here. I did some research and apparently he has done the same thing in the south. I just wanted to let people know, not to put much trust in this individual.
First off thanks for the heads up for others and next, we all at some capacity have been screwed before! I know I have, learned from that and moved on. Lastly, I'm sorry for you're financial loss and I would have done the same thing. Cheers
Ken, I presume you wanted to quote Birchy, not me.
Lone Wolf
06-30-2011, 20:18
i agree, but GROW UP. Ive been ripped off in the construction trade so many time. i needed to grow up and know these people were out there. it heightened my seances. be aware. u8se your street smarts. you will be able to filter the posers from the real hikers. if you act like its NOT your fault, you will never solve the problem.you're way off base. and what IS the difference between a REAL hiker and a POSER? and you say you got ripped off SO MANY TIMES in your trade? guess you ain't got street smarts
Lone Wolf
06-30-2011, 20:22
Who would say NO to a WAR VET ??? For those that hate this country that much, move to IRAQ.how do you really KNOW he was a war vet?
how do you really KNOW he was a war vet?
He produced his military service ID and his DD214, that's how I knew his real name
Carl in FL
06-30-2011, 20:49
and you say you got ripped off SO MANY TIMES in your trade? guess you ain't got street smarts
I'm glad I wasn't the only one to see the irony in that statement.
You live, you learn. Share the wisdom and spare the bitterness,
that's my motto. One of them, anyway.
HiKen2011
06-30-2011, 20:54
Ken, I presume you wanted to quote Birchy, not me.
Oops, sorry CookerHiker!
ChinMusic
06-30-2011, 21:33
Yeah, Birchy fell for a story and trusted a hiker and a vet (who has a monthly check coming), but he didn't deserve getting ripped off or getting told to GROW UP.
This.
I am a business owner and have a soft spot for vets. KK is WAY off base in this thread. OP is just warning others. It does concern me that Karl would look at me as a "mark".
Silverstone
06-30-2011, 21:37
and you say you got ripped off SO MANY TIMES in your trade? guess you ain't got street smarts
Heh heh.
Irony.
It's not just how the monkey bars taste.
Blue Jay
06-30-2011, 21:43
yes i am, when you put your self in that spot you WILL be ripped off. GROW UP.
Ouch, I'm glad this is just a cyberhiker talking. It's a sad day when a trail service provider gets ripped off and a hiker not only blows them off but tells them to grow up. I don't believe the trail has sunk that low yet.
Trailbender
06-30-2011, 22:20
This.
I am a business owner and have a soft spot for vets. KK is WAY off base in this thread. OP is just warning others. It does concern me that Karl would look at me as a "mark".
I'm an Iraq vet, and there is no way I would ask someone to stay at a hostel if I couldn't pay for it. If I was in that situation, I would ask for work for stay, if it wasn't available, I would leave. I don't even usually bring up the vet thing, first of all because I really didn't do all that much, and also because it usually doesn't relate to anything in a conversation. I am not ashamed of it or anything, but I generally won't bring it up unless asked specifically or the conversation is about the military.
Maybe Karl isn't any kind of hiker. Tourist maybe?
Moderator, perhaps something needs to be said to our friend Karl. His behavior seems abusive.
trailangelmary
06-30-2011, 22:31
It is good to alert other people up the trail so they can be prepared It would also be good if you reported this to the ATC office. 304-535-6331 ext 128 Laurie Pottieger and call the Boiling Springs office
ChinMusic
06-30-2011, 22:39
I'm an Iraq vet, and there is no way I would ask someone to stay at a hostel if I couldn't pay for it. If I was in that situation, I would ask for work for stay, if it wasn't available, I would leave. I don't even usually bring up the vet thing, first of all because I really didn't do all that much, and also because it usually doesn't relate to anything in a conversation. I am not ashamed of it or anything, but I generally won't bring it up unless asked specifically or the conversation is about the military.
...and folks like you are the reason I have a soft spot for vets.......... 11724
He produced his military service ID and his DD214, that's how I knew his real name
Any Vet that carries around his DD214 on a hike is suspect to me. It is not something you need for anything in everyday life, so that alone should be a sign to others that the individual is trying to work the system.
birchy,
Thanks for trying to look out for Vets. I get ripped off from time to time and I will continue to get ripped off, because when in doubt, I help.
I believe KK is off a little on this one. He is right that it's your fault (we are all responsible for our own choices), but he is way off on the grow up thing. You tried to do the right thing, and are just passing the word to others.
Thank you
daddytwosticks
07-01-2011, 07:31
My DD214 is stored away in a lockbox. Vets don't need to be asking for anything nor advertising to the world their status. This is just my opinion. If talk about military service comes up, I'll usually engage the person(s) and thank them for their service. Maybe I'll buy them a beer...:)
Lone Wolf
07-01-2011, 07:33
My DD214 is stored away in a lockbox. Vets don't need to be asking for anything nor advertising to the world their status. This is just my opinion. If talk about military service comes up, I'll usually engage the person(s) and thank them for their service. Maybe I'll buy them a beer...:)yeah really. what is it with viet nam vets throwin' out the vet card?
yeah really. what is it with viet nam vets throwin' out the vet card?
Getting spit on and called a baby killer now look at todays Vets. They get thanks for their service. Maybe the Nam Vets are looking for one also.
tigerpaw
07-01-2011, 08:15
What are "street seances"?
the goat
07-01-2011, 08:42
in business we learn from our mistakes. take this as a learning experience and grow up, shut up and move on. it was YOUR fault.
Dr john who?. every year we hear this whining of people that can't run a business. BO WHO. who cares. send the word on the hostel e-mail train, but i don't care. i also don't belief what happened, happened. are there police reports. if so post.
the OP was whining..........................
yes i am, when you put your self in that spot you WILL be ripped off. GROW UP.
fine..... **** you too
wow! you must have been hitting the sauce pretty hard & early yesterday.
i hope you were, as it would provide an explaination for your convoluted logic & combative attitude. for your sake, i hope that's not how your brain normally operates and processes information.
the goat
07-01-2011, 08:53
What are "street seances"?
i think that's when you try to summon the dead while standing on asphalt.
Jack Tarlin
07-01-2011, 09:36
Birchy: Sorry this happened to you, and even sorrier to see people actually criticizing YOU for mentioning the situation. In any case, you've provided a good service to other folks further North, so thanks for bringing it up here. And I'm also sorry if anyone views or uses this situation to think or speak ill of veterans; this is a case of an individual acting badly, and that's how it should be seen, period.
trailangelmary
07-01-2011, 09:39
He produced his military service ID and his DD214, that's how I knew his real name
Thanks. I'm alerted and I alerted the Doyle Hotel. Picture would be nice.
I was just interested to hear this guy was still hiking. He was out of money in the Smokies (yet somehow had booze, cigarettes and dope). My best memory of him was him yelling at someone for throwing a page from a book into a fire (while eating sardines from a can with a giant hunting knife that must have weighed 5 pounds). That was the BEST memory.
yeah really. what is it with viet nam vets throwin' out the vet card?
They had to fight hard to get their taken care of by the VA. (ie agent orange) Much like today's vets are. (ie traumatic brain injury, and PTSD) All too often our national leaders throw "Supporting our Troops" around to make themselves look like super-patriots, while denying them the care they need when they come home.
there's a story like this about bad hikers every year. Lets keep it in perspective, very very few hikers are dishonest like this guy. Most are cheap, but not dishonest. He is not one of us.
Panzer (cheap, but honest)
(not too cheap, just thrifty cheap), (but still a good tipper)
Trailbender
07-01-2011, 10:58
Any Vet that carries around his DD214 on a hike is suspect to me. It is not something you need for anything in everyday life, so that alone should be a sign to others that the individual is trying to work the system.
That is partially true. I keep a copy of mine in a ziploc with my birth cert and social security card, along with work history. If I was to become homeless, I would honestly prefer to do it on the Appalachian Trail than in a city, and thus, those documents would come with me. I have been job hunting for awhile, and have had several jobs ask for it. That is why I would carry it, not to show a hostel owner or anyone else, just an employer.
Not trying to justify what he did, just explaining that there is a rational reason to carry around your DD214.
Jack Tarlin
07-01-2011, 11:02
Should be kinds fun if this guy shows up next weekend in Duncannon.......especially if Birchy is there, too. Nothing like some good drama and our entertainment budget is limited this year.
Cookerhiker
07-01-2011, 11:05
Even back in ancient times when I received my discharge (1972), the Army furnished a wallet card-sized version of the DD 214 encased in hard plastic. It makes more sense to bring that with you than the original.
ChinMusic
07-01-2011, 11:37
Is the DD 214 for officers and enlisted? I don't recall getting such a piece of paper. I do remember resigning my commision. It was a LONG time ago.
vamelungeon
07-01-2011, 11:41
Even back in ancient times when I received my discharge (1972), the Army furnished a wallet card-sized version of the DD 214 encased in hard plastic. It makes more sense to bring that with you than the original.
When I got out in 88 I was not furnished with anything other than the regular document. I keep it in my safe with some certified copies from my local courthouse, where it is also on file. I don't carry a copy with me.
greenmtnboy
07-01-2011, 13:06
Interesting points brought up in this thread.
Discussions that would be interesting:
When does helping become "enabling"? A common "AA" or 12 steps term for helping when others should help themselves.
The National Forest is free to all for camping for two weeks in any appropriate site. Those short on cash can live for quite a while there, not stay at a rental situation, hostel, etc.. which costs $$$. Think Henry Thoreau and "Walden".
When does law enforcement and accusation become excessive? If I am providing a service to a customer and expect a check or cash after the service or product, what are my options if I am not paid? If payment is required before service, moochers and rip-offs will be infrequent--cheap restaurants require pre-pay, while quality restaurants bill you after service is done--a minimum 15% gratuity is standard.
Snowleopard
07-01-2011, 14:18
There's a different Papa Smurf, Randy Smith, who's on Hammock Forums and BPL who is a good guy. He sells a small amount of gear at myDIYgear.com and I've had good dealings with him.
Trailbender
07-01-2011, 15:34
When I got out in 88 I was not furnished with anything other than the regular document. I keep it in my safe with some certified copies from my local courthouse, where it is also on file. I don't carry a copy with me.
You can leave the original with the Register of Deeds, should be in the same building you renew your plates, go down there and they can give you a stamped, certified copy.
What's the one thing all Papa Smurf's have in common? A really lame trail name. :D (the new whiteblaze needs to work on its smileys)
Better than Frodo or Gandalf. :)
vamelungeon
07-01-2011, 15:44
You can leave the original with the Register of Deeds, should be in the same building you renew your plates, go down there and they can give you a stamped, certified copy.
We don't renew our tags at the courthouse in Va. My DD214 is on record at the Circuit Court Clerk which is probably the same as your Register of Deeds, and they can give me that certified copy. It differs from state to state.
wow! you [kayak karl] must have been hitting the sauce pretty hard & early yesterday.
i hope you were, as it would provide an explaination for your convoluted logic & combative attitude. for your sake, i hope that's not how your brain normally operates and processes information.Can't a donating member delete his own posts? Of course he's quoted, but perhaps some of those quoting posts are from other donating members and they could charitably choose to delete as well.
Seems like quite a bit of the mess could be cleaned up pretty quickly.
Toolshed
07-01-2011, 16:26
I carry my DD Form 214 as a miniature credit card sized document encased in hard plastic. When I recently registered in my new county with the VA, I had to get a new DDform 314 from the VA and I took it to the local VA's office in our county building and they ceritfied it, notarized it and made me regualy copies and a miniature copy. I guess you need to register with your local VA and have them certify your DDform 214.
You can leave the original with the Register of Deeds, should be in the same building you renew your plates, go down there and they can give you a stamped, certified copy.
Some people are no longer comfortable with this traditional way to safe-keep one's DD-214. These days, such records can be pulled by anyone under freedom of info, and there's enough there to make identity theft way too easy. I'd recommend a safe deposit box, or even a fire-proof file box in your basement ...
Thanks. I'm alerted and I alerted the Doyle Hotel. Picture would be nice.
MARY, there is a picture of him on our A.T. facebook group page, put I'll see if I can dig up another. He was spotted at the Liquor store in Shippensburg on Friday morning, the day he got paid, but apparently slipped back into the woods and is heading north according to the clerk at the store.
ATladyinpa
07-02-2011, 10:01
In my opinion, the reason that the Vietnam Vets show their cards is because they were not given the welcome home that those who have served in Iraq and Afganistan have been shown. They did not receive applause in the airports, train stations or bus terminals. They were not patted on the back and thanked for their service. They were cursed at, spit upon and IGNORED by the american public and the WWII vets. Until recently, saying you served in Vietnam was not something to be proud of. I am married to a former Marine and he will not openly speak about his experiences with non-VN vets but will talk to others that served with him. As to the actual idea of this thread, Papa Smurf is a former Marine and my husband would have been very upset with my son and I if we did not offer help. Little did we know that it would turn out the way it did. My son was raised in the country, taught to practice COUNTRY HOSPITALITY he does not have what you all might call "street smarts" he is a kindhearted man that enjoys helping hikers. You all should stop bashing someone who is trying to help and instead pay it forward.
In my opinion, the reason that the Vietnam Vets show their cards is because they were not given the welcome home that those who have served in Iraq and Afganistan have been shown. They did not receive applause in the airports, train stations or bus terminals. They were not patted on the back and thanked for their service. They were cursed at, spit upon and IGNORED by the american public and the WWII vets. Until recently, saying you served in Vietnam was not something to be proud of. I am married to a former Marine and he will not openly speak about his experiences with non-VN vets but will talk to others that served with him. As to the actual idea of this thread, Papa Smurf is a former Marine and my husband would have been very upset with my son and I if we did not offer help. Little did we know that it would turn out the way it did. My son was raised in the country, taught to practice COUNTRY HOSPITALITY he does not have what you all might call "street smarts" he is a kindhearted man that enjoys helping hikers. You all should stop bashing someone who is trying to help and instead pay it forward.Assuming this is all true, the sad thing here and the sad fact is that innocent people who were attempting to run a business felt sorry for someone who used a hard luck story to perpetrate a theft of goods and services. This is the bottem line. Now maybe this individual had every intention of paying for his stay and the goods he consumed, and then for some reason known only to him decided to skip out on his tab. Maybe he had intended a rip off from the get-go. The facts are that he was trusted to pay his bill, and he did not. In essence, he was extended a "credit line". Most places do not do this unless there is some type of collateral offered or they are completely sure of who they are doing this for. Since a tab was offered and allowed to this person, who later reneged on his monetary commitment of repayment, then unfortunately as hard as it is to accept, it really is the fault of the creditor. People can't buy things without proper money or credit anywhere I know of, you wouldn't give someone $200 worth of groceries in a store no matter how sweet or trusting they appear and accept their word they will repay you for it in a week or two because they can't at the moment. Nor will you be able to order and receive items online without proper credit and acceptable payment.
People can't buy things without proper money or credit anywhere I know of, you wouldn't give someone $200 worth of groceries in a store no matter how sweet or trusting they appear and accept their word they will repay you for it in a week or two because they can't at the moment. Nor will you be able to order and receive items online without proper credit and acceptable payment.
Lots of people and businesses extend credit from bars to banks. Papa Smurf's credit line was his monthly VA check. Bottom line, he ran out without paying his obligation.
WingedMonkey
07-02-2011, 13:11
I am a bit confused here. You state that he ripped you off and it appears he did, but on your Facebook page you act like it was a pleasure to have him there out picking blueberries and everything.
A war VET taking a week off from the trail and is staying with me at the Hostel... free of charge of course. We must give back to the men and women of our ARMED FORCES
greenmtnboy
07-02-2011, 13:53
Where is the contract? If he agreed to pay there should be something in writing.
Also he needs an "out" on this problem--when he is confronted, assuming he owes money that can be verified, give him an opportunity to make restitution. I have been ripped off numerous times. Sometimes by other citizens, sometimes by customers; in the latter case small claims court is efficient, in the former you have the right to blacken the name of the perp. so that other people do not get ripped off.
We have not heard his side of the story.
ATladyinpa
07-02-2011, 14:24
I am a bit confused here. You state that he ripped you off and it appears he did, but on your Facebook page you act like it was a pleasure to have him there out picking blueberries and everything.
WingedMonkey, why should you be confused. I was the one that made the determination to charge Papa for his stay when he promised to contribute to his food and lodging when his VA check arrived. We provided him all manner of comfort, a warm dry place to sleep and very good home cooking. He in turn helped out at the hostel. His total bill (had he been a regular hostel guest) would have come to $400 but because he was a vet and also helped out around here, we discounted it to half of that amount. He was a gentleman during his stay and always very respectful to me that is why "I" was flabbergasted when he exited one day before payday after dark and without so much as a thank you.. Had he been forthcoming and explained to me that he felt as though his services were worth the total bill, I would have most likely overlooked it. If the shoe was on the other foot and I was in that same position as he I would be HONEST with all parties involved and hope that they would understand. It was the fact that he left on the sly that hurt the most. We are a new hostel and right now we operate on my income only which is from social security. Every penny needs to be accounted for. The situation he left us in meant that we could not afford gas for shuttles nor provide really good meals for the hikers that do come to stay. If you need to be negative, I wish you would look at it from my standpoint. Believe me when I say IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN
ATladyinpa
07-02-2011, 14:40
WINGED MONKEY, give me your address and I will call PAPA SMURF and he can come stay with you for two weeks. I hope you have plenty of food and booze. just make sure you make him pay up front.
ATladyinpa
07-02-2011, 14:42
[QUOTE=greenmtnboy;1177437]Where is the contract? If he agreed to pay there should be something in writing
Under contract law, contracts for goods or services less than $500, does not need to be in writing. An oral contract (i.e. a promise to pay) is legally binding. But of course I doubt you have a LAW DEGREE, so be careful where you tread if you are uninformed.
WingedMonkey
07-02-2011, 14:46
My first post said nothing negative, it asked for clarification of why "birchy" was proud on his Facebook page that a "vet" stayed there free. Now you say it was supposed to be half rate.
Now I may be negative when I ask you to clarify for us who you are? Are you the owner or the hostel? Are you "birchy's" wife or mother?
In earlier post you acted like you were the proud mother of a hiker that had stayed at the hostel, and you would recommend it to anyone. Now you call the shots the hostel.
You seem to think any questions are an insult to you.
My first post said nothing negative, it asked for clarification of why "birchy" was proud on his Facebook page that a "vet" stayed there free. Now you say it was supposed to be half rate.
Now I may be negative when I ask you to clarify for us who you are? Are you the owner or the hostel? Are you "birchy's" wife or mother?
In earlier post you acted like you were the proud mother of a hiker that had stayed at the hostel, and you would recommend it to anyone. Now you call the shots the hostel.
You seem to think any questions are an insult to you.
First, I was proud to have a vet, or any vet stay here, and yes, it is free, but not for two weeks. Once he decided to hang around I made it clear that he pays, works for stay, or a bit of both. Now I'm not going to get into a debate with you about what is what, who is who, or why for any of the later. All vet's are welcome here for 1 or 2 nights free, but when a drifter rolls in pretending to be a hiker, and works me for 2 weeks food and lodging. I HAVE A RIGHT TO ALERT OTHERS TO THIS SCAM.... THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE POST. Now some people have turned a simple cautionary post into a debate about who is right and who is wrong. I was in the wrong, because I trusted a man for his word... which where I come from is as good as money, gold, or anything else. Stop nit picking everything.
greenmtnboy
07-02-2011, 15:22
He is of course, innocent unless proven guilty.
And hikers need to know their rights if they have cops called on them for anything, as I once had happen in New Jersey, hitching to get back to my car.
All Constitutional rights apply 24 hours a day without exception.
WingedMonkey
07-02-2011, 15:24
WINGED MONKEY, give me your address and I will call PAPA SMURF and he can come stay with you for two weeks. I hope you have plenty of food and booze. just make sure you make him pay up front.
I've never stayed in a hostel that provides booze, guess I'm missing the good ones.
:sun
Dang.... 84 replies on this thread, over 200 on the one about religion on the trail.
Doesn't anybody hike anymore?
greenmtnboy
07-02-2011, 15:33
Dang.... 84 replies on this thread, over 200 on the one about religion on the trail.
Doesn't anybody hike anymore?
Blogging has become so addictive. I am going out to hike in a few minutes...
WingedMonkey
07-02-2011, 15:39
Dang.... 84 replies on this thread, over 200 on the one about religion on the trail.
Doesn't anybody hike anymore?
You stopped long enough to be #85
ChinMusic
07-02-2011, 15:52
He is of course, innocent unless proven guilty.
Uhhh, this ain't a court of law. It is a court of public opinion.
Note the difference.
Sierra Echo
07-02-2011, 15:54
Dang.... 84 replies on this thread, over 200 on the one about religion on the trail.
Doesn't anybody hike anymore?
I hiked a whole 2 miles today!!!! Its all my PT would let me do. It was the first hike i did since my injury and I did AWESOME!!!
I hiked a whole 2 miles today!!!! Its all my PT would let me do. It was the first hike i did since my injury and I did AWESOME!!!
That's great, now try and do 4 miles the next day. When you hit 10 miles I'll buy you a beer.
Sierra Echo
07-02-2011, 16:26
That's great, now try and do 4 miles the next day. When you hit 10 miles I'll buy you a beer.
Sounds like a plan! But it wont be til next weekend. I'm allowed to hike tomorrow and Monday, but I cant go over two miles. My PT said to take it easy and not turn a 6 week problem into a 6 month problem! :)
ChinMusic
07-02-2011, 16:56
Dang.... 84 replies on this thread, over 200 on the one about religion on the trail.
Doesn't anybody hike anymore?
I walked out to the mailbox this afternoon. The heat index is 105. I needed a snow cone once I got inside.
trailangelmary
07-02-2011, 20:02
WORD FROM HIKERS IN DUNCANNON SAY he is right behind them so should be in Duncannon tonight or tomorrow. Vicki at the Doyle says her plan is to tell him to keep hiking.
Should be kinds fun if this guy shows up next weekend in Duncannon.......especially if Birchy is there, too. Nothing like some good drama and our entertainment budget is limited this year.
WORD FROM HIKERS IN DUNCANNON SAY he is right behind them so should be in Duncannon tonight or tomorrow. Vicki at the Doyle says her plan is to tell him to keep hiking.
I hope he's gone thru by the time the hiker feed starts. You know, he sounds like the type that might hang around for a free meal.
Panzer
Now some people have turned a simple cautionary post into a debate about who is right and who is wrong.
Birchy,
you did the right thing letting everyone know that this guy is out there. Word of what he did will follow him up the trail. Everyone will be on the lookout for him.
Panzer
ATladyinpa
07-02-2011, 20:56
I hiked a whole 2 miles today!!!! Its all my PT would let me do. It was the first hike i did since my injury and I did AWESOME!!!
WTG sierra echo, keep up the good work. I wish I could do the same.
Lone Wolf
07-02-2011, 21:18
40+ years later and vets are still cryin' about being called names and spit on? y'all make it sound like EVERY one of hundreds of thousands of GIs came back met throngs of hippies everywhere they went spittin' on them and stuff. any Marine worth their salt woulda kicked said hippy's ass with extreme predjudice. the draft was the problem. only about 1000 Marines were drafted and they went specialized units like Forced RECON and such to kill Charlie. Marines ain't whiners. Semper Fi
40+ years later and vets are still cryin' about being called names and spit on? y'all make it sound like EVERY one of hundreds of thousands of GIs came back met throngs of hippies everywhere they went spittin' on them and stuff. any Marine worth their salt woulda kicked said hippy's ass with extreme predjudice. the draft was the problem. only about 1000 Marines were drafted and they went specialized units like Forced RECON and such to kill Charlie. Marines ain't whiners. Semper Fi
How long were you a Marine for? I was in Army Aviation for 26 years. "Above the Best!"
cavediver256
07-03-2011, 15:45
40+ years later and vets are still cryin' about being called names and spit on? y'all make it sound like EVERY one of hundreds of thousands of GIs came back met throngs of hippies everywhere they went spittin' on them and stuff. any Marine worth their salt woulda kicked said hippy's ass with extreme predjudice. the draft was the problem. only about 1000 Marines were drafted and they went specialized units like Forced RECON and such to kill Charlie. Marines ain't whiners. Semper Fi
Semper Fi Devil Dog !!!!!!
what kind of vet picks a trail name like "papa smurf"? You would think he would pick a more military sounding name.
Panzer
what kind of vet picks a trail name like "papa smurf"? You would think he would pick a more military sounding name.
Panzer
PANZER, I was wondering that my self.. I thought since his name was CLAY, and he was in NAM.... a good trail name would be CLAYMORE. If we were in the JUNGLE I would set a few and save us all a lot of trouble....LOL...hahaha
Lone Wolf
07-04-2011, 06:23
what kind of vet picks a trail name like "papa smurf"? You would think he would pick a more military sounding name.
Panzerthere are plenty of vets that never saw combat. the action they saw was in bars and whore houses. maybe he was a REMF
sasquatch2014
07-04-2011, 09:25
Should be kinds fun if this guy shows up next weekend in Duncannon.......especially if Birchy is there, too. Nothing like some good drama and our entertainment budget is limited this year.
If it happens during dinner time it will be like one of those medieval dinner theaters, but you don't have to pay to watch, which goes back to Panzers comment on being cheap.
Ron Haven
07-04-2011, 15:52
Birchy,
Dealing with the public as I do. I encounter human trash on a daily bases. With hikers there is some out there but the percentage is very small. I am going to guess less than 3%. The great people who are hikers out weigh the few hair brain kids that were not raised right, the street trash looking for an adventure or running from the cops. Then occasionally a few professional bums and panhandlers you find on the street corners in front of wine joints. I see more in one week being a motel owner stopping in wanting to free load than I see hikers in a whole year. When you see negitive post about hostel and hotel owners posted you can usually bet it was posted by this human garbage who didn't get by with their thieving or wrongful activities. Thanks for posting this. It keeps good hikers from getting a bad name..
Jack Tarlin
07-04-2011, 15:52
Actually, Panzer, the Duncannon event is open to everyone but this certainly doesn't mean everyone is welcome. Certain folks aren't, and certain behavior will get a person asked to leave. We enjoy great relations with the town, Police Department, etc., and we intend to keep it that way. Duncannon this weekend will be a great place for hikers and their friends, but it'll be the wrong place to be an idiot. We throw this event to have fun with each year's hikers, and not to be babysitters or cops, and anyone planning to attend would be well advised to keep this in mind. Several folks last year discovered this a bit too late.
I hiked into the Partnership Shelter approx May 30/31. A hiker that was there from the night before told me about a vet named Papa Smurf who came into the shelter very late the previous night. He was extremely drunk and had alcohol with him. He woke everyone in the shelter up, told them they were laying down in the wrong direction, and demanded that everyone get up and rearrange themselves. An argument ensued and Papa Smurf began threatening some of the hikers. The police were called. He was then schlepped off to the pokie. I heard he was back on the trail the next day.
The person who the work for you got hacked. It's happened to friends of mine. We got their plea for help from London while they were sitting in the same room with us. Standard scam, I'm afraid.
If you ever get an email where the language seems odd or unnatural, Google a quote from the email. You'll usually find it's spam.
Partnership Shelter is cool in that you can order pizza but it's totally un-cool in that people party there and come and go all night. It would be much rarer to find a raging drunk dude at a shelter further off the road
PAPA SMURF, left me 3 very drunken, nasty voice mails on my cell phone over the last few days. So not only has he stiffed us on his hostel stay but now he making harassing phone calls.
As extensively as this guy has been talked about how have we not managed to get him off the trail yet? Especially seeing that he now has outstanding charges.
greenmtnboy
07-05-2011, 11:28
PAPA SMURF, left me 3 very drunken, nasty voice mails on my cell phone over the last few days. So not only has he stiffed us on his hostel stay but now he making harassing phone calls.
It's time for law enforcement to do its job. This sick puppy needs to get back to his hometown if he has one--his village called, their idiot's missing.
PANZER, I was wondering that my self.. I thought since his name was CLAY, and he was in NAM.... a good trail name would be CLAYMORE. If we were in the JUNGLE I would set a few and save us all a lot of trouble....LOL...hahaha
He explained to me in the Smokies that his original trail name was "Tear Drop" from a previous thru-hike, but that "The Circus" adopted him and renamed him. The Circus would be a group of kids I met in the Smokies (I believe from New Orleans).
As extensively as this guy has been talked about how have we not managed to get him off the trail yet? Especially seeing that he now has outstanding charges.
DILLARD, I think with this guy the only time he really spends on the actual A.T. is when he needs money or some other help, or may be when he is lonely. He told me that he walked from Calidonia to Shippensburg, PA via Rt 997 and White Church Rd which in my book is avoiding the more direct route provided by the A.T. This guy will do what he needs to avoid people, usually stealt camping a nd skipping sections of the trail. Even backtracking.
JokerJersey
07-05-2011, 12:49
I hiked into the Partnership Shelter approx May 30/31. A hiker that was there from the night before told me about a vet named Papa Smurf who came into the shelter very late the previous night. He was extremely drunk and had alcohol with him. He woke everyone in the shelter up, told them they were laying down in the wrong direction, and demanded that everyone get up and rearrange themselves. An argument ensued and Papa Smurf began threatening some of the hikers. The police were called. He was then schlepped off to the pokie. I heard he was back on the trail the next day.
Heya Prov, that would have been our group that caught the drunken wrath of Papa Smurf that night. Actually, I was camped with you at the next shelter on with Radio, Noodles, and Chef (remember the music?) and didn't find out about it until the next day when the Tribe caught up with me. This is NOT the first instance of this happening, the cops HAVE been involved in more than one case/state, and it's NOT an isolated incident. The guy IS a Nam Vet, not that it matters in this case. The Circus that was mentioned before broke up quite awhile ago, before Trail Days in fact, and everyone else that was a part of it is off-Trail.
I've had run-ins with Papa Smurf a couple of times now and have had mixed reactions depending on the incident. When we were in Pearisburg, he bought everyone beer. Before that, he was mooching off people in Hot Springs. Some people were calling him Papa Smurf, others were calling him Teardrop (due to the tat near his eye). He's not entirely stable and I personally wouldn't put myself in a situation where I was the only person staying with him. It's almost like dealing with someone who is bipolar. Some days he's really outgoing and super nice, other days it's the exact opposite.
This is NOT second-hand information, hear-say, rumors, or anything else. I've met, hung out with, hiked with, and been around this guy before from about the time of Standing Bear Farm to Pearisburg. He skips around on the Trail, catching rides and whatnot (not that I care, because I did that as well), but he does have a tendency to pop up when you least expect it. Just watch yourself around him. Some people got along with him really well and jumped all over me when I talked this way about him, but for the most part, 95% of the hikers I met didn't want to be around him after a very short time. Take what you want from this. Sorry to the OP that you got ripped off, but I can't say I'm surprised, just disappointed that he hasn't changed his ways. Be safe out there!
Do they make kayaks large enough for trolls nowadays?
sounds like your warnings have been effective,
next time he calls, put him on speaker and let everyone around you laugh at him... he'll stop calling
Rocket Jones
07-05-2011, 18:40
Do they make kayaks large enough for trolls nowadays?
What does that mean?
Jack Tarlin
07-05-2011, 18:46
Hey Birchy, do me a favor......if he calls again, tell him he'd do well to skip the upcoming Duncannon party. We're on really good terms with the Duncannon Police Department and I kinda feel that the weekend might not turn out to be his kinda fun.
What does that mean?
Sounds like he's looking for a boat :p
Jim Adams
07-05-2011, 23:28
Tear drop tat!!!! That IS the guy we were talking about at Hawk Mt. Shelter back in March. He is a total ass.
geek
ChinMusic
07-05-2011, 23:36
Note to self: "If you come to a shelter and see a teardrop tat, take your pack to the water source"
Trailbender
07-06-2011, 09:11
Note to self: "If you come to a shelter and see a teardrop tat, take your pack to the water source"
Might not be the same thing, but on gang members, that signifies that they killed someone.
Might not be the same thing, but on gang members, that signifies that they killed someone.
The teardrop tattoo or tear tattoo is a symbolic tattoo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattoo) that is placed underneath the eye (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_eye). This tattoo originated with Chicano (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicano) gangs in California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-types-0) The meaning was that the wearer had killed someone. Since then, the meaning of the tattoo has, "strayed from its gang roots and is open to meanings."[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-regret-1) Now, there are various meanings and variations of the teardrop tattoo, which can symbolize losing a loved one or spending time in prison.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-types-0) It is also often used in prison to warn other convicts that the wearer has killed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo
People can't buy things without proper money or credit anywhere I know of, you wouldn't give someone $200 worth of groceries in a store no matter how sweet or trusting they appear and accept their word they will repay you for it in a week or two because they can't at the moment. Nor will you be able to order and receive items online without proper credit and acceptable payment.
Lots of people and businesses extend credit from bars to banks. Papa Smurf's credit line was his monthly VA check. Bottom line, he ran out without paying his obligation.While it is true that lots of people extend credit to other's, in this instance credit was extended on someone's word and their word of repayment alone. I don't know what bars do because I don't go in them anymore but as I remember a lot of times they would cash someones paycheck for them or other type of monthly income check in exchange for that individual usually spending some of that money there at their establishment. Banks last I knew do not give out money or loans to other's who do not have some type of established credit, income, collateral, or other known repayment method if and when the loan is not to be repaid back. If they were to loan money with a slim chance of repayment, they would not be in business for very long (look how many went under do to the morgage crisis). This individuals monthly VA check is not his "credit line". It is his monthly income. This individual did not present a Mastercard or Visa to insure his payment, any other reputable motel or hotel would require this. His only credit as far as I can tell was a "verbal reassurance/agreement" of repayment upon receiving his monthly VA payment. Now from what I understand, a verbal agreement can and has been upheld as legally binding in a court of law. It is possible a suit could be filed for repayment against him for this debt. But as I see it, no proper form of established credit was ever presented. Just someone's "word" that they would be honest and satisfy their bill. If a business owner accepts this individual at his word and accepts it to be true when in fact it is not, then they incur a loss. That is why most businesses do not do business this way, and only proper accepted forms of payment/credit are allowed.
People can't buy things without proper money or credit anywhere I know of, you wouldn't give someone $200 worth of groceries in a store no matter how sweet or trusting they appear and accept their word they will repay you for it in a week or two because they can't at the moment. Nor will you be able to order and receive items online without proper credit and acceptable payment.<BR><BR>
Lots of people and businesses extend credit from bars to banks. Papa Smurf's credit line was his monthly VA check. Bottom line, he ran out without paying his obligation.While it is true that lots of people extend credit to other's, in this instance credit was extended on someone's word and their word of repayment alone. I don't know what bars do because I don't go in them anymore but as I remember a lot of times they would cash someones paycheck for them or other type of monthly income check in exchange for that individual usually spending some of that money there at their establishment. Banks last I knew do not give out money or loans to other's who do not have some type of established credit, income, collateral, or other known repayment method if and when the loan is not to be repaid back. If they were to loan money with a slim chance of repayment, they would not be in business for very long (look how many went under do to the morgage crisis). This individuals monthly VA check is not his "credit line". It is his monthly income. This individual did not present a Mastercard or Visa to insure his payment, any other reputable motel or hotel would require this. His only credit as far as I can tell was a "verbal reassurance/agreement" of repayment upon receiving his monthly VA payment. Now from what I understand, a verbal agreement can and has been upheld as legally binding in a court of law. It is possible a suit could be filed for repayment against him for this debt. But as I see it, no proper form of established credit was ever presented. Just someone's "word" that they would be honest and satisfy their bill. If a business owner accepts this individual at his word and accepts it to be true when in fact it is not, then they incur a loss. That is why most businesses do not do business this way, and only proper accepted forms of payment/credit are allowed.
bulldog49
07-06-2011, 14:43
because this ain't nothing new. stupid business owners posting their stupid mistakes.
The only "stupid" postings I've read on this topic are yours. You've made your point, such as it is, so give it a rest.
atraildreamer
07-07-2011, 13:03
Birchy,
Dealing with the public as I do. I encounter human trash on a daily bases. With hikers there is some out there but the percentage is very small. I am going to guess less than 3%. The great people who are hikers out weigh the few hair brain kids that were not raised right, the street trash looking for an adventure or running from the cops. Then occasionally a few professional bums and panhandlers you find on the street corners in front of wine joints. I see more in one week being a motel owner stopping in wanting to free load than I see hikers in a whole year. When you see negative post about hostel and hotel owners posted you can usually bet it was posted by this human garbage who didn't get by with their thieving or wrongful activities. Thanks for posting this. It keeps good hikers from getting a bad name..
England had a good idea a couple of hundred years ago...ship off the undesirable criminal element off to Australia. :welcome Once they got there, it was serve your sentence, work or not eat. :mad: The jerks that didn't go with the program, didn't last long. :eek: The ones that served their time often opted to stay, started families and became productive members of a frontier society (and learned how make really good beer! :D )
Any suggestions as to where we can ship the ship today's riff-raff, if we adopt this idea? :confused:
Lets keep this on track. It is starting to get off track.
As I said before, I will continue to extend courtesy to any and all hikers. For example, if a hiker was to have a resupply box shipped to the hostel or some area, which by some chance contained travelers checks, and say it got lost in the mail. That hiker would still be welcome in our hostel, while they made arrangements to get that money and resupply. Too me, that is one of the problems with the world today, a persons WORD should mean something, especially those who have served in the military where HONOR is drilled into them. May be that is why it used to be called the HONOR SYSTEM. It is not so much the who or what, but the why. A dead beat hiker such as the one in question, is not really a hiker, but a vagrant thief who wanders the Appalachian Trail.
Sierra Echo
07-07-2011, 19:23
As I said before, I will continue to extend courtesy to any and all hikers. For example, if a hiker was to have a resupply box shipped to the hostel or some area, which by some chance contained travelers checks, and say it got lost in the mail. That hiker would still be welcome in our hostel, while they made arrangements to get that money and resupply. Too me, that is one of the problems with the world today, a persons WORD should mean something, especially those who have served in the military where HONOR is drilled into them. May be that is why it used to be called the HONOR SYSTEM. It is not so much the who or what, but the why. A dead beat hiker such as the one in question, is not really a hiker, but a vagrant thief who wanders the Appalachian Trail.
Tell that hiker to slap a delivery confirmation sticker on that package and it will never get lost!
Lone Wolf
07-07-2011, 20:48
just cuz someone is a vet doesn't mean they're automatically "cool" and worthy of praise and special treatment
Migrating Bird
07-07-2011, 20:55
I for one am totally behind Birchy on this. Birchy opened his door to Papa Smurf and based upon his word would pay, instead he skipped. Birchy has the option of conducting his business as most business - credit card imprint, payment in advance or cash deposit. That would perhaps have a negative impact on his business relative to his customer base. He is not a hotel located at the Exit X off I XX.
As I read his original post, what I got out of it was his desire to warn others about this dead beat, plain and simple. We should all thank Birchy for taking the time to the warn us. He is not getting paid for that either.
Thanks Birchy
M. Bird
Papa Smurf#1
07-08-2011, 13:57
I'm getting quite sick of all of these complaints. You trolls must be very hard up for meaningful activity. I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction.
Papa Smurf is doing a flip flop. Please help me complete my hike: send postal money orders to: C. Gardner,General Delivery, Dalton, MA 01226 And thank you so much for those who have helped me with my hike.
the goat
07-08-2011, 14:22
I'm getting quite sick of all of these complaints. You trolls must be very hard up for meaningful activity. I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction.
Papa Smurf is doing a flip flop. Please help me complete my hike: send postal money orders to: C. Gardner,General Delivery, Dalton, MA 01226 And thank you so much for those who have helped me with my hike.
money order is on the way! always glad to fund anothers' vacation w/ my money! enjoy!
HiKen2011
07-08-2011, 14:39
I'm getting quite sick of all of these complaints. You trolls must be very hard up for meaningful activity. I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction.
Papa Smurf is doing a flip flop. Please help me complete my hike: send postal money orders to: C. Gardner,General Delivery, Dalton, MA 01226 And thank you so much for those who have helped me with my hike.
How about Birchy? He helped in good faith you would pay him?
Trillium
07-09-2011, 09:58
I'm getting quite sick of all of these complaints. You trolls must be very hard up for meaningful activity. I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction.
Papa Smurf is doing a flip flop. Please help me complete my hike: send postal money orders to: C. Gardner,General Delivery, Dalton, MA 01226 And thank you so much for those who have helped me with my hike.well done, shtick. just who are you really? :D
atraildreamer
07-09-2011, 10:52
Lets keep this on track. It is starting to get off track.
That's what makes this website so interesting...all the members with slightly derailed minds! :D :banana
Feral Bill
07-11-2011, 15:55
That's what makes this website so interesting...all the members with slightly derailed minds! :D :banana
Slightly?
.....
Jack Tarlin
07-11-2011, 16:39
Cool. Now maybe someone will call Rob Bird and Tom Levardi in Dalton and give 'em a heads up........
TIDE-HSV
07-11-2011, 22:45
Note to self: "If you come to a shelter and see a teardrop tat, take your pack to the water source"
Being named "Self," I appreciate the heads-up... :)
Wise Old Owl
07-12-2011, 00:00
I got up to page four of this thread, I am really dissapointed in a few here. Someone tells me that they served in the freedom of our nation, I don't give a hoot if you are toting a card. My hat goes off to you in deep respect of your deeds. I am happy to take your word.
Nobody likes getting ripped off, It doesn't matter where you are from, it doesn't matter if its $50 or $1000.... It sucks. It just plain hurts, sort of like getting your very first car broken into for the 1/2 working radio.
Birchy was trying to get the word out about a problem hiker, I think (IMO) that he did the right thing. Its unfortunate its about the behavior of a Vet.
In this thread some of you are just plain awful.
Wise Old Owl
07-12-2011, 00:16
England had a good idea a couple of hundred years ago...ship off the undesirable criminal element off to Australia. :welcome Once they got there, it was serve your sentence, work or not eat. :mad: The jerks that didn't go with the program, didn't last long. :eek: The ones that served their time often opted to stay, started families and became productive members of a frontier society (and learned how make really good beer! :D )
Any suggestions as to where we can ship the ship today's riff-raff, if we adopt this idea? :confused:
It was England's point of desperation, They could not figure out what to do with the "mean & nasty" poor.
I get a little irritated when Yanks quote Australia's history but appear unaware of this fact....
North America was used for transportation from the early 17th century to the American Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution) of 1776. In the 17th century, it was done at the expense of the convicts or the shipowners. The first Transportation Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_Act_1717) in 1718 allowed courts to sentence convicts to seven years' transportation to America. In 1720, extension authorized payments by the state to merchants contracted to take the convicts to America. Under the Transportation Act, returning from transportation was a capital offence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation#cite_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation#cite_note-2)
The gaols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jail#Gaol) became overcrowded and dilapidated ships were pressed into service, the hulks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk_%28ship%29) moored in various ports as floating gaols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_ship). The number of convicts transported to North America is not verified although it has been estimated to be 50,000 by Dr John Dunmore Lang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dunmore_Lang). These went originally to New England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England), the majority of prisoners taken in battle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances) from Ireland and Scotland. Some were sold as slaves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave) to the Southern states.[/URL]
From the 1620s until the American Revolution, the British colonies in North America received transported British criminals, effectively double the period that Australian colonies received convicts. The [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War"]American Revolutionary War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation#cite_note-3) brought that to an end and, since the remaining British colonies in what is now Canada were close to the new United States of America, prisoners sent there might become hostile to British authorities. Thus, the British Government was forced to look elsewhere.
vamelungeon
07-12-2011, 05:33
I'm getting quite sick of all of these complaints. You trolls must be very hard up for meaningful activity. I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction.
Papa Smurf is doing a flip flop. Please help me complete my hike: send postal money orders to: C. Gardner,General Delivery, Dalton, MA 01226 And thank you so much for those who have helped me with my hike.
The check's in the mail.
TheRaven
07-12-2011, 10:03
funniest thing about Australia vs the US is that down under has developed a HUGE stick up their butts on laws. Everything is highly regulated, and the fines/penalties are steep. It amazes me that a country founded as a prison colony has turned into a prison of laws...AND folks who are afraid to break them. I thought about living there for a while....once I learned that...NO THANK YOU!!!
Wise Old Owl
07-12-2011, 10:46
Yea but we are headed there...I saw that too, last week on the travel channel. A stewardess passed out apples on a American plane for lunch, some ate them others pocketed them. You know you cannot bring fruit into a country. They later passed out paper to declare before landing and about ten of them lied about the apple - it was a $AUD220, per person fine. “The fine for illegally bringing fruit into South Australia is $315, plus a $30 victim of crime levy. There is no penalty if people voluntarily dispose of fruit in quarantine bins.”
Yet some tried. Whats interesting to me is the lack of crime there, The biggest crime they could come up with to put on video was cheating fish mongering that was taking too many species out of the sea,
It was England's point of desperation, They could not figure out what to do with the "mean & nasty" poor.
I get a little irritated when Yanks quote Australia's history but appear unaware of this fact....
North America was used for transportation from the early 17th century to the American Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution) of 1776. In the 17th century, it was done at the expense of the convicts or the shipowners. The first Transportation Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_Act_1717) in 1718 allowed courts to sentence convicts to seven years' transportation to America. In 1720, extension authorized payments by the state to merchants contracted to take the convicts to America. Under the Transportation Act, returning from transportation was a capital offence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation#cite_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation#cite_note-2)
The gaols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jail#Gaol) became overcrowded and dilapidated ships were pressed into service, the hulks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk_%28ship%29) moored in various ports as floating gaols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_ship). The number of convicts transported to North America is not verified although it has been estimated to be 50,000 by Dr John Dunmore Lang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dunmore_Lang). These went originally to New England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England), the majority of prisoners taken in battle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances) from Ireland and Scotland. Some were sold as slaves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave) to the Southern states.
From the 1620s until the American Revolution, the British colonies in North America received transported British criminals, effectively double the period that Australian colonies received convicts. The American Revolutionary War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War) brought that to an end and, since the remaining British colonies in what is now Canada were close to the new United States of America, prisoners sent there might become hostile to British authorities. Thus, the British Government was forced to look elsewhere.
I love facts that are supported by published works and research, something that is all too often ignored in these posts. Thank you Owl.
atraildreamer
07-12-2011, 16:00
It was England's point of desperation,...
...The number of convicts transported to North America is not verified although it has been estimated to be 50,000 by Dr John Dunmore Lang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dunmore_Lang). These went originally to New England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England), the majority of prisoners taken in battle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances) from Ireland and Scotland. Some were sold as slaves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave) to the Southern states.
IMHO, we (the USA) are near to having our own "point of desperation". :mad: OTOH, the fact that so many prisoners came to my neck of the woods...New England...kind of makes me proud,:welcome in a perverse way! :D:bananaOh, well, we Yankees are a strange lot! :rolleyes:
so whatever happened to Papa Smurf?
so whatever happened to Papa Smurf?
thread drift. Everything that can be said has already been said.
Panzer
so whatever happened to Papa Smurf?
He's researching trail-stable cheeses ...
He's researching trail-stable cheeses ...
I thought that was Jester's job?
Skidsteer
07-12-2011, 18:27
I thought that was Jester's job?
Jester has left the building.
Said something about WB being too much like Australia and hasn't been back.
thread drift. Everything that can be said has already been said.
Panzer
Yeah, I just figured he'd show up somewhere else by now, try to pull the same stunt and get busted. Guess we'll never get to hear how the story ended.
It was England's point of desperation, They could not figure out what to do with the "mean & nasty" poor.
I get a little irritated when Yanks quote Australia's history but appear unaware of this fact....
North America was used for transportation from the early 17th century to the American Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution) of 1776. In the 17th century, it was done at the expense of the convicts or the shipowners. The first Transportation Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_Act_1717) in 1718 allowed courts to sentence convicts to seven years' transportation to America. In 1720, extension authorized payments by the state to merchants contracted to take the convicts to America. Under the Transportation Act, returning from transportation was a capital offence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation#cite_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation#cite_note-2)
The gaols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jail#Gaol) became overcrowded and dilapidated ships were pressed into service, the hulks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk_(ship)) moored in various ports as floating gaols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_ship). The number of convicts transported to North America is not verified although it has been estimated to be 50,000 by Dr John Dunmore Lang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dunmore_Lang). These went originally to New England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England), the majority of prisoners taken in battle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances) from Ireland and Scotland. Some were sold as slaves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave) to the Southern states.
From the 1620s until the American Revolution, the British colonies in North America received transported British criminals, effectively double the period that Australian colonies received convicts. The American Revolutionary War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War) brought that to an end and, since the remaining British colonies in what is now Canada were close to the new United States of America, prisoners sent there might become hostile to British authorities. Thus, the British Government was forced to look elsewhere.
Seriously??? What the F#@k does that have to do with the price of Tea in China??? Opps, I mean this thread??? Internet hikers do a dis-service to the likes of Birchy and those that ACTUALLY contribute and... Wait for it... Get out and hike... And by hike, I don't mean going from your mom's basement to the fridge to get a YooHoo and back again... :rolleyes:...
I hear PAPA SMURF may be in NJ. Some women PM me this morning asking for a picture, said they ran into a hiker fitting his description, and who gave them the creeps.
So he made it through Duncannon ok....
So he made it through Duncannon ok....
What a shame...
So he made it through Duncannon ok....
No he skipped PA on the DOG BUS.
harryfred
07-12-2011, 22:35
It was England's point of desperation, They could not figure out what to do with the "mean & nasty" poor.
I get a little irritated when Yanks quote Australia's history but appear unaware of this fact....
North America was used for transportation from the early 17th century to the American Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution) of 1776. In the 17th century, it was done at the expense of the convicts or the shipowners. The first Transportation Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_Act_1717) in 1718 allowed courts to sentence convicts to seven years' transportation to America. In 1720, extension authorized payments by the state to merchants contracted to take the convicts to America. Under the Transportation Act, returning from transportation was a capital offence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation#cite_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation#cite_note-2)
The gaols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jail#Gaol) became overcrowded and dilapidated ships were pressed into service, the hulks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk_(ship)) moored in various ports as floating gaols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_ship). The number of convicts transported to North America is not verified although it has been estimated to be 50,000 by Dr John Dunmore Lang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dunmore_Lang). These went originally to New England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England), the majority of prisoners taken in battle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances) from Ireland and Scotland. Some were sold as slaves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave) to the Southern states.
From the 1620s until the American Revolution, the British colonies in North America received transported British criminals, effectively double the period that Australian colonies received convicts. The American Revolutionary War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War) brought that to an end and, since the remaining British colonies in what is now Canada were close to the new United States of America, prisoners sent there might become hostile to British authorities. Thus, the British Government was forced to look elsewhere.
That's the sanitized version. The way these PEOPLE were treated and used was disgusting to say the least. Often there only crime was having the wrong name and being poor.
TIDE-HSV
07-12-2011, 23:40
That also doesn't count the masses of "indentured servants," who were, effectively, slaves for a term. A lot of our frontiersmen were people who were fleeing from the one-sided bargain in indenture...
Snoring Sarge
07-13-2011, 01:08
Tear Drop, Papa Smurf, was at the Sapphire Inn in Franklin during trail festival being a drunken jerk. He was talking about wanting to kill peoples dogs and eaten them. His great line "The first trail I hiked was the H0 CHE MEN trail". The police came and took him away. He made no friends that night.
Few days later leaving Siler bald shelter after lunch my hiking partern and I came on a solo female hiker that was very shook up because a guy in camo kept following her. She decided to hike with us and within 10 minute guess who shows up carring the womans cap? Tear Drop. His demeanor was not that of someone trying to be helpful.
This guy is bad news all the way around. he has addiction and mental issues that is going to get someone hurt. If he really is a Vetnam Vet then he has to at least in his late 50's. ugh....
Tear Drop, Papa Smurf, was at the Sapphire Inn in Franklin during trail festival being a drunken jerk. He was talking about wanting to kill peoples dogs and eaten them. His great line "The first trail I hiked was the H0 CHE MEN trail". The police came and took him away. He made no friends that night.
Few days later leaving Siler bald shelter after lunch my hiking partern and I came on a solo female hiker that was very shook up because a guy in camo kept following her. She decided to hike with us and within 10 minute guess who shows up carring the womans cap? Tear Drop. His demeanor was not that of someone trying to be helpful.
This guy is bad news all the way around. he has addiction and mental issues that is going to get someone hurt. If he really is a Vetnam Vet then he has to at least in his late 50's. ugh....
I'm going to start compiling a list of reasons why hiking 25 miles a day can be a good thing... There are so many....
People can't harass you if they can't keep up with you. :)
I'm going to start compiling a list of reasons why hiking 25 miles a day can be a good thing... There are so many....
People can't harass you if they can't keep up with you. :)
ROTFLMAO... Can't wait to see that list... :-?...
forever27young
07-13-2011, 09:43
i wonder if this guy WAS in duncannon 6 years ago in july?????
Sierra Echo
07-13-2011, 17:44
Tear Drop, Papa Smurf, was at the Sapphire Inn in Franklin during trail festival being a drunken jerk. He was talking about wanting to kill peoples dogs and eaten them. His great line "The first trail I hiked was the H0 CHE MEN trail". The police came and took him away. He made no friends that night.
Few days later leaving Siler bald shelter after lunch my hiking partern and I came on a solo female hiker that was very shook up because a guy in camo kept following her. She decided to hike with us and within 10 minute guess who shows up carring the womans cap? Tear Drop. His demeanor was not that of someone trying to be helpful.
This guy is bad news all the way around. he has addiction and mental issues that is going to get someone hurt. If he really is a Vetnam Vet then he has to at least in his late 50's. ugh....
All they did was move him to another hotel. You make it sound like he was arrested.
Wise Old Owl
07-13-2011, 17:54
Toli. I like yoo hoo beer!
I have to wonder how Papa Smurf got his name because Smurfs are Communists.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qra0hlO6hZk&feature=related
couscous
07-13-2011, 22:21
Dang.... 84 replies on this thread, over 200 on the one about religion on the trail.
Doesn't anybody hike anymore?
Some of us can multitask now that Tapatalk works so well. Place a call to Birchy, post on WB, enjoy trail magic at Caledonia State Park from the A.T. Ministry group from Indiana, all while hiking the trail.
Tear Drop, Papa Smurf, was at the Sapphire Inn in Franklin during trail festival being a drunken jerk. He was talking about wanting to kill peoples dogs and eaten them. His great line "The first trail I hiked was the H0 CHE MEN trail". The police came and took him away. He made no friends that night.
Few days later leaving Siler bald shelter after lunch my hiking partern and I came on a solo female hiker that was very shook up because a guy in camo kept following her. She decided to hike with us and within 10 minute guess who shows up carring the womans cap? Tear Drop. His demeanor was not that of someone trying to be helpful.
This guy is bad news all the way around. he has addiction and mental issues that is going to get someone hurt. If he really is a Vetnam Vet then he has to at least in his late 50's. ugh....I am glad you said he was in his fifties because I met a vet today and I was wondering if this thread was about him..........
FritztheCat
07-15-2011, 19:48
I hiked into the Partnership Shelter approx May 30/31. A hiker that was there from the night before told me about a vet named Papa Smurf who came into the shelter very late the previous night. He was extremely drunk and had alcohol with him. He woke everyone in the shelter up, told them they were laying down in the wrong direction, and demanded that everyone get up and rearrange themselves. An argument ensued and Papa Smurf began threatening some of the hikers. The police were called. He was then schlepped off to the pokie. I heard he was back on the trail the next day.
Yep. I was there that night. He was drunk, obnoxious and threatening to kill the other hikers in the shelter. Rather than engage this jerk and spool him up further, we left and went to town. Apparently he was arrested that night (as relayed to me by a guy who stayed) and was released the next morning (the shuttle driver saw him walking down the road). He's not a hiker but merely a hitch-hiker who likes sniffing packs of hikers. Heh!
ATladyinpa
07-15-2011, 20:25
I am glad you said he was in his fifties because I met a vet today and I was wondering if this thread was about him..........
To be exact he is 60 years old, and has "Semper Fi" tattooed across his chest. He is very unstable and likely to do most anything if provoked.
Lone Wolf
07-15-2011, 20:45
To be exact he is 60 years old, and has "Semper Fi" tattooed across his chest. He is very unstable and likely to do most anything if provoked.damn. so sorry we didn't cross paths. i'd of beat of ass for disgracing the Corps
damn. so sorry we didn't cross paths. i'd of beat of ass for disgracing the Corps
Thanks!!! Have fun!
Hoop Time
07-16-2011, 00:51
12310 This was tacked up along the trail entering Delaware Water Gap from the south two weeks ago.
It says "red beard", not gray, so we know it wasn't Baltimore Jack that stole this lady's heart (though the bar tab sounds about right).
Gotta wonder if this could be the same guy?
damn. so sorry we didn't cross paths. i'd of beat of ass for disgracing the CorpsNo dog in this fight.
trailangelmary
07-17-2011, 00:43
So Birchy started this thread to warn others. Except for Lone Wolf stating that he would kick his butt for disgracing the corps, the only other comments I am interested in are those that talk about his whereabouts now. Has he flip-flopped? or has he just jumped forward by yellow blazing? or is he stealthing through towns to not get nabbed by the NPS or cops? or other options? No signs of him coming through Duncannon.
Hopefully the NPS is on top of this and will take care of this soon. And volunteers, hostel owners and hikers are alert to the possible danger on the trail and will call the ATC and report a sighting.
Lion King
09-03-2011, 22:50
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2011/sep/02/fbi-seeking-hikers-suspicious-trail-death-ar-1282332/?referer=None&shorturl=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2FqVgIcg
This makes all this above a lot scarier
Lion King
09-03-2011, 22:53
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FBI seeking hikers in 'suspicious' trail death
Credit: FBI photo
http://www2.newsadvance.com/mgmedia/image/0/354/168221/scott-lilly-fbi-picture-august-19-2011/
Scott Lilly, found dead in Amherst County on Aug. 12, 2011 while hiking the Appalachian Trail.
By: Chris Dumond (http://www2.newsadvance.com/staff/65/)
Published: September 02, 2011
» 0 Comments (http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2011/sep/02/fbi-seeking-hikers-suspicious-trail-death-ar-1282332/?referer=None&shorturl=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2FqVgIcg#fbcomments) | Post a Comment (http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2011/sep/02/fbi-seeking-hikers-suspicious-trail-death-ar-1282332/?referer=None&shorturl=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2FqVgIcg#fbcomments)
Investigators are trying to find hikers known to the FBI (http://www2.newsadvance.com/topics/types/organization/tags/federal-bureau-of-investigation/) only by their trail names in the suspicious death of a man whose body was found last month near the Appalachian Trail (http://www2.newsadvance.com/topics/types/facility/tags/appalachian-trail/) in Amherst County (http://www2.newsadvance.com/topics/types/provinceorstate/tags/amherst-county/).
The body of Scott Lilly (http://www2.newsadvance.com/topics/types/person/tags/scott-lilly/), of South Bend (http://www2.newsadvance.com/topics/types/city/tags/south-bend/), Ind. (http://www2.newsadvance.com/topics/types/provinceorstate/tags/indiana/), was found by hikers on Aug. 12 near the trail in the Mount Pleasant National Scenic Area, a 7,500-acre area in the national forest just north of U.S. (http://www2.newsadvance.com/topics/types/country/tags/united-states/) 60.
Authorities have said the circumstances of his death are suspicious, but not why.
The FBI (http://www2.newsadvance.com/topics/types/organization/tags/federal-bureau-of-investigation/), which is leading the investigation, has released very little information about Lilly (http://www2.newsadvance.com/topics/types/person/tags/scott-lilly/) or the discovery of his body, except to say investigators have no information that would lead them to believe other hikers would be targeted.
The hikers they believe may have had contact with Lilly (http://www2.newsadvance.com/topics/types/person/tags/scott-lilly/) are known only as Mr. Coffee, White Wolf, Papa Smurf, Combat Gizmo and Space Cadet. The last two may be a hiking team, according to a Friday press release.
4thandgoal
09-03-2011, 23:46
so.. one of the hikers believed to have had contact with Mr. Lilly is Pappa Smurf? How is it that after all the threads involving smurf and his suspect behavior, he still moves about the trail like a ghost scaring hikers and stiffing hostel owners? Citizen arrest this sob. lol
RITBlake
09-04-2011, 01:40
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2011/sep/02/fbi-seeking-hikers-suspicious-trail-death-ar-1282332/?referer=None&shorturl=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2FqVgIcg
This makes all this above a lot scarier
Wow.... Chills
RITBlake
09-04-2011, 01:46
Interesting thread, good on Birchy for putting the word out.
Anyone have a photo of the hiker in question? The more exposure the better.
How anyone could criticize Birchy for posting this is beyond me. His lesson is the community's lesson and the community is better (and hopefully safer) for it.
Lots of good sheep out there, never hurts having a few extra shepherds to scare off the wolves.
Lion King
09-04-2011, 01:59
Wow.... Chills
Agreed, when I saw the FBI was looking for him in relation to this, and found out he just skipped from VA to PA on a bus right around this time, that adds to the 'oh ****' factor for me, maybe thats just my writer mind working overtime, but this is looking strange.
Could just be bad timing on his part...lets hope
4eyedbuzzard
09-04-2011, 06:53
... Apparently he was arrested that night (as relayed to me by a guy who stayed) and was released the next morning (the shuttle driver saw him walking down the road)...
Agreed, when I saw the FBI was looking for him in relation to this, and found out he just skipped from VA to PA on a bus right around this time, that adds to the 'oh ****' factor for me, maybe thats just my writer mind working overtime, but this is looking strange.
Could just be bad timing on his part...lets hope
Even if it is a coincidence, it's one that should get him investigated. If he was arrested, and even if released without charges being made, there should some record of the arrest and some personal data available about Papa Smurf (like his real name, data from ID, photo, etc.)
There is a photo of him in the SUSPECT HIKER thread. His real name is CLAYTON GARDNER. I have contacted the FBI, and gave them the info I had, including his cell # so the can track it by GPS.
WingedMonkey
09-04-2011, 10:24
This Papa Smurf has nothing to do with the one that the FBI wishes to communicate with. The hikers listed on the FBI news flier are folks that they want to interview NOT suspects in anything.
vamelungeon
09-04-2011, 10:41
how do you know it's a different papa smurf?
read the original post, we are talking about the hiker that stiffed hostel owners, threatened people down south and is NOW SOUGHT FOR QUESTIONING BY THE "FBI". AS A POSSIBLE PERSON OF INTREST IN SCOTT LILLY'S DEATH....... IT IS THE SAME PAPA SMURF. MAYBE YOU SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON FINDING THIS PERSON THEN WORRYING ABOUT SEMANTICS.
this papa smurf has nothing to do with the one that the fbi wishes to communicate with. The hikers listed on the fbi news flier are folks that they want to interview not suspects in anything.
read the original post.................. Wingnut
4thandgoal
09-04-2011, 13:59
Sure is alot of angry people on this site.
Sierra Echo
09-04-2011, 14:03
I have a photo of Papa Smurf/Teardrop from the Franklin Hiker Bash. You can only see the backside of him and only a part of his face BUT he is engaged in some erratic looking behavior in it.
Trivia for the day: Papa Smurf/Teardrops mom use to work for the United States Postal Service
Rocket Jones
09-04-2011, 20:54
read the original post.................. Wingnut
:rolleyes: name calling... how mature... :rolleyes:
RITBlake
09-04-2011, 21:10
This Papa Smurf has nothing to do with the one that the FBI wishes to communicate with. The hikers listed on the FBI news flier are folks that they want to interview NOT suspects in anything.
Thats what they said about Gary Hilton.
dnlandes
09-04-2011, 21:14
http://www.whsv.com/home/headlines/FBI_INVESTIGATING_HIKERS_DEATH_129201333.html
"
Investigators are looking for hikers who go by the trail names Mr. Coffee, White Wolf, Papa Smurf, Combat Gizmo and Space Cadet."
ChinMusic
09-04-2011, 22:32
:rolleyes: name calling... how mature... :rolleyes:
LOL, and I thought Wingnut was his trail name..............
WingedMonkey
09-05-2011, 02:25
Thats what they said about Gary Hilton.
Who said that? Who is they? What did they say about Hilton?
Tuckahoe
09-05-2011, 09:02
I'd like to point out that there is more than one hiker on the trail known as Papa Smurf. While hiking out in southwest Virginia recently I was reading the trail logs for the Lewis Fork Wilderness with a Papa Smurf listed in the logs on that section of the trail, far away from Birchy's Papa Smurf causing trouble.
RITBlake
09-05-2011, 12:47
Who said that? Who is they? What did they say about Hilton?
The FBI, said the exact same thing about GH.
Clay has been hiking the AT since shortly after his return from his stint with our Uncle Sam. He chose the USMC and did most of his time (13 months) in the DMZ. Some vets carry thier DD214 because it's all they have.
Lot of fake people, angry ones, I agree. Can't find anything better to do than bitch about my old bro Clay. Hey Birchy, is it true you put a promotion on your web page about giving a war vet free stay at your hostel? If so, how come you had him working for stay? That ain't free. And why does he owe you anything if his stay was free?
MyName1sMud
09-06-2011, 13:06
Wait I'm confused TD55? You actually know this person? Did you tell them to get in contact with the FBI?
Yes, I know him. I haven't had contact with him for years. If I had a way to contact him I would. I have no doubt he would be pleased to hear from me and would take my advice seriously. Unless he has changed greatly, he is quickly calmed down by another Vietnam Vet or fellow Marine.
Sir-Packs-Alot
09-06-2011, 15:22
PAPA SMURF is also wanted by the FBI as a "person of interest" in the death of thru-hiker "Stonewall" on the Virginia section of the AT just recently. Anyone with any info on PAPA SMURF should contact the ATC.
I wanted to caution all hikers and hostel operators regarding a problem hiker. If anyone encounters an older hiker known as PAPA SMURF (aka Clay Gardner), be careful in your dealings with him. This hiker was picked up by MT. ROSE and came to our hostel. He is a war vet, so we extended him some courtesy as he was broke and was waiting for his military disability check to come on July 1st. Just before dark on the 29th after spending 2 weeks with us he slipped out and headed north, leaving with a very large unpaid food / lodging tab. He did do some work for stay while here, but still left owing over $200.00 for various things he received while he was here. I did some research and apparently he has done the same thing in the south. I just wanted to let people know, not to put much trust in this individual.
vamelungeon
09-06-2011, 15:24
Yes, I know him. I haven't had contact with him for years. If I had a way to contact him I would. I have no doubt he would be pleased to hear from me and would take my advice seriously. Unless he has changed greatly, he is quickly calmed down by another Vietnam Vet or fellow Marine.
Why is someone who needs a "handler" to function in society hiking the AT alone?
generoll
09-06-2011, 16:25
who tells people whether or not they can hike the AT?
WingedMonkey
09-06-2011, 16:29
PAPA SMURF is also wanted by the FBI as a "person of interest" in the death of thru-hiker "Stonewall" on the Virginia section of the AT just recently. Anyone with any info on PAPA SMURF should contact the ATC.
There is no list of "persons of interest" by the FBI.
There is no list of "persons of interest" by the FBI.
From the latest FBI press release...
Information provided by the public thus far has been extremely beneficial in advancing this investigation. Investigators are now seeking to locate and identify several additional hikers, who while using the following trail names, may have had contact with Mr. Lilly. These individuals are:
“Mr. Coffee”
“White Wolf”
“Papa Smurf”
“Combat Gizmo” and “Space Cadet” (possibly a husband/wife team)
vamelungeon
09-06-2011, 17:06
who tells people whether or not they can hike the AT?
Let me rephrase my question- Why is a person who requires "handlers" walking around unsupervised? What if a Marine or Vietnam vet isn't available (as they frequently won't be)? I know lots of folks with mental illness and some are on meds, some are not a danger to anyone and some are confined for their safety and the safety of others. If this guy needs a special class of person to calm him down, perhaps he should fall into the third category I mentioned. I don't know him but from the descriptions here, including his friend, I wouldn't want to either.
WingedMonkey
09-06-2011, 17:20
And where do you read "persons of interest"? And BTW that is the second list of HIKERS and TRAIL ANGELS that they have wanted to interview. The first one was:
Anyone with information identifying the following hikers or trail angels is urged to call the FBI:
Coach, Big Foot, Mr. Coffee aka Puddles, Scribbles, SwannieR, Combat Gizmo and Space Cadet. These individuals possibly had contact with Stonewall as he hiked along the Appalachian Trail. They may have information that could assist in the investigation of this case.
Now..if you want to call SawnieRobertson a "person of interest" she will be quite amused I am sure. (She has already spoken to the FBI) Or maybe you should leave a message on Scribbles Trail Journal and tell her she is a "person of interest". Nope she already got a text on her cell phone. And Coach? He has changed trail names and is flip flopping all over the place. (I have notified them).
I have still not seen or heard the FBI call any of them "persons of interest" only trail names they were trying to match to real names and interview about meeting Stonewall.
Pedaling Fool
09-06-2011, 18:26
You guys watch too many crime shows "person of interest" (http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=4042)
paistes5
09-06-2011, 18:44
Sounds like a bunch of "pestimates" arguing again. Lol
XCskiNYC
09-06-2011, 19:33
As mentioned, many hikers carry the trail name Papa Smurf. As far as Birchy's Papa Smurf possibly being a suspect in the Lilly case, is there anything to indicate that this particular Papa Smurf may have been in the same part of VA at the time of Lilly's death?
Depending on the time of death, and I'm not sure if law enforcement has released this information yet, Birchy may actually provide an alibi to the Papa Smurf he identifies as a deadbeat.
In any case, just because the FBI says they want to contact a certain hiker it doesn't necessarily mean that hiker is a suspect. They may have simply studied trail registers and created a list of people who were near Lilly when the hiker lost his life. So they may want an interview simply to collect information.
I didn't say he needed a "handler". Thats what you read and thunk up on your own.
Skidsteer
09-06-2011, 22:13
I didn't say he needed a "handler". Thats what you read and thunk up on your own.
In April he threatened to eat my friend's dog. Judge for yourself.
Sierra Echo
09-06-2011, 22:42
In April he threatened to eat my friend's dog. Judge for yourself.
AND he was walking around telling people good recipes for cooking dogs. He tried to yank Elvis out of Kangas arms. He almost got his ass beaten.
I do not know what this person may or may not be guilty of. Other than the whinings of a disgruntled hostel owner and some accounts of his having made some bizzare threats about eating someones dog, and have a some what scarry and crappy dispostion at times, what crime has he committed or been accused of?
20,000 hits have been made on this thread and this guy. All because some whiney little man thinks a hiker got over on him for a stay at his hostel. Maybe some meals or showers or laundry?
Lone Wolf
09-06-2011, 23:24
give it a rest. your boy is not deserving of any respect.
If you like this cat so much, send me the $250 dollars he stiffed me for and I'll match it and we can start a REWARD fund for catching this trail pest.
Birchy - thanks for your general faith in mankind and for your letting others know about "Papa Smurf" not making good on his costs. I'd ignore KK's comments. His spewing of "business practices" seems to me (IMO) to be the ranting of one with an inferiority complex.
Birchy - thanks for your general faith in mankind and for your letting others know about "Papa Smurf" not making good on his costs. I'd ignore KK's comments. His spewing of "business practices" seems to me (IMO) to be the ranting of one with an in inferiority complex.
Your comments are appreciated, but unfortunately some people just get under my skin. I guess it's all just small talk. I would like to concentrate on catching this piece of trash, not to get my money, but for the safety of fellow hikers, and the reputation of the AT community as a whole. If we work together, we will get a lead on this guys whereabouts and the police will take it from there. THANK YOU.....BIRCHY
XCskiNYC
09-07-2011, 19:41
PAPA SMURF is also wanted by the FBI as a "person of interest" in the death of thru-hiker "Stonewall" on the Virginia section of the AT just recently. Anyone with any info on PAPA SMURF should contact the ATC.
Nobody has posted any information that would indicate the Papa Smurf who stiffed Birchy is the same Papa Smurf the FBI wants to interview. The posts have indicated that multiple individuals use this trail name.
There were only two PAPA SMURF'S on the trail this year that I know of, and one is a Boy Scout Leader from OHIO, which likely rules him out. As for Mr Gardner, this would be right up his alley. Apparently you have not had the pleasure of meeting him.....
Just a Hiker
09-07-2011, 20:23
The day will come soon when AT Service Providers will require payment in advance, or some may stop hiker services all together. It's awful and infuriating what happened to Birchy, but it shouldn't shock anyone who has spent any length of time on the Appalachian Trail. Why should we be shocked when a low life like Papa Smurf doesn't pay his tab when we can't even get self-entitled thru-hikers to leave $4 at Kincora or "The Place" in Damascus.
the day will come soon when at service providers will require payment in advance, or some may stop hiker services all together. It's awful and infuriating what happened to birchy, but it shouldn't shock anyone who has spent any length of time on the appalachian trail. Why should we be shocked when a low life like papa smurf doesn't pay his tab when we can't even get self-entitled thru-hikers to leave $4 at kincora or "the place" in damascus.
well said,
Chaco Taco
09-07-2011, 20:53
The day will come soon when AT Service Providers will require payment in advance, or some may stop hiker services all together. It's awful and infuriating what happened to Birchy, but it shouldn't shock anyone who has spent any length of time on the Appalachian Trail. Why should we be shocked when a low life like Papa Smurf doesn't pay his tab when we can't even get self-entitled thru-hikers to leave $4 at Kincora or "The Place" in Damascus.
There is one every year and sometimes groups
Yes, I know him. I haven't had contact with him for years. If I had a way to contact him I would. I have no doubt he would be pleased to hear from me and would take my advice seriously. Unless he has changed greatly, he is quickly calmed down by another Vietnam Vet or fellow Marine.
Have you contacted the FBI, since they wish to speak with him in this homicide investigation? Surely as good patriots, you'll want to aid them in this investigation, as will he.
Chaco Taco
09-08-2011, 07:00
Have you contacted the FBI, since they wish to speak with him in this homicide investigation? Surely as good patriots, you'll want to aid them in this investigation, as will he.
Investigators are now seeking to locate and identify several additional hikers, who while using the following trail names, may have had contact with Mr. Lilly. These individuals are:
“Mr. Coffee”
“White Wolf”
“Papa Smurf”
“Combat Gizmo” and “Space Cadet” (possibly a husband/wife team)
WingedMonkey
09-08-2011, 11:23
I must be reading different FBI releases, I have still not seen any reference to a homicide. I have still not seen any law enforcements refer to the death of Stonewall as a homicide. Maybe I'm not reading the same reports, because the word is used a lot on here.
I don't know why the FBI doesn't come out and give the cause of death but of "suspicious" origin certainly implies it could be a murder or homocide.
I must be reading different FBI releases, I have still not seen any reference to a homicide. I have still not seen any law enforcements refer to the death of Stonewall as a homicide. Maybe I'm not reading the same reports, because the word is used a lot on here.
I must've gotten that from the same place you got your certainty that the FBI's Papa Smurf and birchy's are not the same. Thanks for the correction - I overstated this suspicious death investigation, per the FBI, as a homicide investigation. I'll leave it to them to make that call and give you back the monopoly on reading their minds. ...
vamelungeon
09-08-2011, 12:39
I must be reading different FBI releases, I have still not seen any reference to a homicide. I have still not seen any law enforcements refer to the death of Stonewall as a homicide. Maybe I'm not reading the same reports, because the word is used a lot on here.
"Lilly was found in a shallow grave neat the long trail in the northwestern part of Amhurst County on August 12th. " I suppose he could have felt death coming on and buried himself, but the logical assumption is that he was killed and buried by someone else.
vamelungeon
09-08-2011, 12:41
You know, that news blurb has the word "near" misspelled and mentions the long trail so perhaps it's not trustworthy for me to quote, in retrospect. I'll have to find a better source...
Just a Hiker
09-08-2011, 13:14
Several people a year assume the trailname "Papa Smurf", so it's hard to keep track of them all sometimes. It's been reported that the Papa Smurf who screwed over birchy was up north somewhere, so I suspect that Hurricane Irene has put him way off the trail. It's also been reported that this guy receives a monthly VA Disability check; therefore, he got paid last week! So I also suspect he won't be seen anywhere near the trail again until he runs out of money.
Slo-go'en
09-08-2011, 13:36
"Lilly was found in a shallow grave neat the long trail in the northwestern part of Amhurst County on August 12th. " I suppose he could have felt death coming on and buried himself, but the logical assumption is that he was killed and buried by someone else.
Well, if he was found in a shallow grave, that pretty much eliminates thru-hikers, since they all ditched thier little orange shovels well before there and no proper hiker would have the time or energy to dig a hole like that anyway. And why bother? Drag the body a few 100 yards off the trail and a bear would soon eat the remains. The mystery deepens...
I happened to be with Scribbles recently when she found out the FBI wanted to talk to her. After straining her memory for an hour or two, she finally remembered meeting Lilly and recalled he was a civil war buff with a very heavy pack out for a section hike. Was his pack found and if not, what might have been in it someone wanted so bad? Apparently he was touring civil war sites before he got onto the AT.
MyName1sMud
09-08-2011, 14:19
In April he threatened to eat my friend's dog. Judge for yourself.
Well I can honestly say that if someone was saying they were going to eat my dog and named off ways to cook them.... The FBI would probably be on the hunt for me right now... that is if they could find the body....
Alligator
09-08-2011, 15:58
There are two threads specific to this hiker so this one is being closed. The other thread is here (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?74217-Suspect-hiker).