PDA

View Full Version : underquilt sizing...



WhiteMtns
02-05-2005, 14:03
Been looking at the JRB Nest, as well as others, and I'm wondering about the coverage. For a HH it seems to cover it all.

Why does it need to be so big?

My foam pad on the inside measures 20 by 40 and covers everything from neck to knees. I really want to break from the wrestling it takes to keep it under you.

I was thinking of making an underquilt roughly the size of a beach towel...maybe 40 by 55. Should easily cover head to knees and be wide enough to wrap up the sides past any area I might inadvertantly touch with a free hand outside my inner quilt.

Too much snow for me to hang and prototype right now. But with the amount of coverage that is needed...the full-coverage designs would seem to be excessive. Would hate to carry extra I'm not using.

Is there something I'm missing?

neo
02-05-2005, 16:07
Been looking at the JRB Nest, as well as others, and I'm wondering about the coverage. For a HH it seems to cover it all.

Why does it need to be so big?

My foam pad on the inside measures 20 by 40 and covers everything from neck to knees. I really want to break from the wrestling it takes to keep it under you.

I was thinking of making an underquilt roughly the size of a beach towel...maybe 40 by 55. Should easily cover head to knees and be wide enough to wrap up the sides past any area I might inadvertantly touch with a free hand outside my inner quilt.

Too much snow for me to hang and prototype right now. But with the amount of coverage that is needed...the full-coverage designs would seem to be excessive. Would hate to carry extra I'm not using.

Is there something I'm missing?
i use a silnylon undercover $35.00 it is 50 x 78 it wieghs 5oz,in between my hammock and undercover is a 36 x 48 in pad .25 in thick it wieghs 5oz,if you look at my photo gallery i have pics of my pad,my hammock with the undercover,i have used it down to 30 degrees so far no problem:sun neo

peter_pan
02-05-2005, 17:51
WhiteMtns.

If you are going to get serious about an under quilt for hassle free comfort then look carefully about the size…..First, length. Read the recent thread here about cold feet. Unless you want to supplement your under quilt with something else under your legs and feet you should seriously consider one that is long enough to go beyond the feet and curl up past the bottom…As far as the head end…your pillow can insulate your head but if your quilt goes beyond the head you will eliminate the "thin spot" draft or pocket of cool/cold air beside your head and approaching your shoulders…All in all there is much merit to 78 inches over, say, 72 inches if you are 5-9 to 6-5. Shorter than 5-9 ? consider 72 to 75 depending on your design. If you go with a mummy shape and minimum width you will need 75 inch length for full coverage. The wider designs match up well with most hammocks and let you pick up economy of length because you lay on a diagonal.

For what it is worth we tried several narrower widths, down as far as 30 inches. All had drawbacks that required more elaborate hanging systems and sometimes resulted in cold spots from shifting off the under quilt. Repositioning after the mid-night walk was sometimes required. All in all, these were distracters from the goal of hassle free luxury for us.

Note, that the JRB quilts do not go to the ends of the hammock, rather they stop 12-15 from each end depending on the specific model HH. We consider this point in concert with the use of breathable DWR ripstop a major plus in reducing condesation problems in the corner of the hammock bug net ( again see posts on this subject elsewhere on WB.)

Also consider whether you want a single use item or a multiple use item. JRB quilts fit twin beds, can form foot sacks and are thus suitable top quilts, and are wearable as extended vests or serapes depending on the model. Thus letting you consider eliminating the extra insulation layer you might be carrying.

The extreme ultralighter that wants to continue to incorporate a pad can do as Neo has with our Weather Shield Bottom, made of microporous polypropylene ( MP ) it is totally waterproof, wind proof and very breathable, 78x50 and under 8 oz. ( we prefer MP for breathability over silnyl) Again, the size and uniform simple suspension system that conforms to the hammock are what makes this design easy to hang, use and insures consistent coverage.

Thru-Hiker.com does have an under quilt kit that has darts to taper the ends some and it is a little shorter I believe, goes for about $125 including 800 powerfill down. You might want to check it out.

If you want to replicate the JRB quilt with 0.8 oz silnyl and 900 fill down you can get the under quilt weight to under 15 oz….be prepared for the material costs to rise real sharp and the sewing will become twice as tricky…NO fun

My $ 0.02 worth...and yes I am one of the Jacks (owners)...these are our lesson learned since you asked...good luck with your project.

WhiteMtns
02-05-2005, 18:27
thanks for the info.

One concern of mine is of course accomplishing the desired on a minimal budget. I just completed a 'quilt' for the inside of the hammock and am anxious to work up an underquilt...but I'm not anxious to swing above this much snow...can you tell I hate Winter...

It seems you might've saved me a lot of trial and error. But it'll be some time yet until I get my hammock up and start tinkering...

...already tried finding any way to rig it up indoors...but no way for it to take any weight...Oh well.

neo
02-05-2005, 21:49
thanks for the info.

One concern of mine is of course accomplishing the desired on a minimal budget. I just completed a 'quilt' for the inside of the hammock and am anxious to work up an underquilt...but I'm not anxious to swing above this much snow...can you tell I hate Winter...

It seems you might've saved me a lot of trial and error. But it'll be some time yet until I get my hammock up and start tinkering...

...already tried finding any way to rig it up indoors...but no way for it to take any weight...Oh well.
my longdistance hammock kit

hennesey hammock without rain fly 60.00
jacksrbetter 8x8 silnylon tarp 60.00
jacksrbetter python skins 15.00
jacksrbetter compression stuffsack 15.00
custom 78x50 silnylon undercover 35.00
total wiehgt 2lbs13oz total cost 165.00


this set up has worked great
with my 5 oz oware pad coldest
so far 30 degrees,but will try lower
temp when it gets cold enough
jack knows his stuff,i have learned
a lot from him,happy trails to ya :sun :welcome neo

WhiteMtns
02-06-2005, 11:02
...I see what peter_pan was saying about the length.

I also liked some of the ideas for using what else you've already got.

My quilt has a footbox to the back of the knees. If I had an insulated shell...it might be possible to wrap that around the footbox...but it'd still be getting compressed. I don't usually have an insulated shell...just a wind/rain jacket...but I usually have a fleece that could be wrapped near the foot end.


If and When I make my pack or gearskin, I intend to have a mesh sleeve on the backpanel for an aprox. 9 by 20 piece of blue foam. This will be a backpad to absorb any incorrectly packed hard objects, as well as being quickly removable for a sit pad when resting/eating lunch. This should fit very well in the footbox of the quilt. Hopefully allowing me to have an underquilt slightly shorter and lighter, and keeping my lowest extremities warm on the pad.

I have a fleece balaclava that I intend to modify to use as a pillowcase for an 'ex-inflatable water wing' "pillow." If the head gets cold...pull the inflatable out and stick the balaclava on.

It'll take some experimentation when the winter breaks, but I'd like to get by with a quilt from neck to knees.

My HH isn't asym, and I wind up on my side, knees bent most of the time, so this should cover all of me, unless I'm stretched out reading or something.

SGT Rock
02-06-2005, 12:52
Hey Peter Pan,

I used the No Sniveler and the weathershield last night up on Rich Mountain, the temp was 25F and there was only a light wind, but the system worked great. I only needed my top quilt and no long johns or pad. VERY comfortable. I may finally look at ditching the pad all together.

Weights:
HH Asym Ultralight (with snakeskins) - 31.3 ounces
No Sniveler Underquilt with suspension - 19.1 ounces
Hungry Howie Top Quilt - 17.7 ounces
Weathershield (top and bottom) - 14.4 ounces
2 Ti stakes - 1.0 ounces
Total weight - 83.5 ounces/5 pounds 3.5 ounces for shelter and sleeping system.

Not bad compared to a tart, thermarest, sleeping bag, bug net, stakes, etc. and much more comfortable!

SGT Rock
02-06-2005, 16:18
WhiteMtns.
The extreme ultralighter that wants to continue to incorporate a pad can do as Neo has with our Weather Shield Bottom, made of microporous polypropylene ( MP ) it is totally waterproof, wind proof and very breathable, 78x50 and under 8 oz. ( we prefer MP for breathability over silnyl) Again, the size and uniform simple suspension system that conforms to the hammock are what makes this design easy to hang, use and insures consistent coverage.


Peter Pan, how are you incorporating your stuff into your own sleeping system? It looks like you are using an Old Rag mountain quilt for the top and a layering system of NoSniveler and nest for the bottom according to your packing lists. I didn't know if this is old and you have changed to add the weather-shield in anyway.

peter_pan
02-06-2005, 18:12
Rock,

Congratulations on another great night of hanging out below freezing in comfort....Come on...you can do it ....leave the pad home... go light, hang high this stuff is light, compressible and works...Once you get rid of the pad...2200-2400 cu in packs are viable with a 4 day food slug.. :jump

As to the question of what I'm using....At the SoRuck at NOC, last month, first night 25, second night about 29, down by the river. I used the basic three season set (Nest Under HH and No sniveller on top), was using exped wgt patagonis,Balaclava, acrylic watch cap, smartwool adrenilin socks and old down booties until second p-- call at 0300. Then I switch to my winter rig....Nest and No Sniveller double bottomed with Old Rag Mtn quilt on the top, removed the booties, too warm, and slept straight thru till 0900. :clap

Point is that the Three Season Set stretched for me with my gear but my Four Season Set,winter rig was more comfortable....note, all this stuff was packed in in my 2200 cu in pack at 17 lbs with two days of food and 4 days of stove alcohol and about 12 oz of water.

The second night I was lazy and started with the Four Season Set...slept 10 hours with one p-- call, rising at 0845 without the need for immediate latrine call.

I have used the Nest and Weather Shield on a test basis in the yard very comfortably into the low 30s... At these lower temps the extra 6-10 of protection of the Weather shield is nice...Personally I like the Weather Shield Top as much as the bottom.......IMHO....once you take care of the bottom plane evaluation of the top is again important as the limiter of your comfort...heat rises and so the key , with the bottom taken care of, is to retain the rising heat and the quilt/Weather Shield-Top does that without trapping undue moisture.

MY early spring & late fall. Three season set = 40 oz plus Weather Shield Set = 15 oz. 55 oz total.

My winter. Four season set =64 oz. ( Could always add the WS for another 15 oz if I want extra insurance).

My spring thru fall. Three season set = 40 oz.

My hot muggy summer. Weather shield set alone = 15 0z. But I have to say I love the Nest so much, it always is in the pack. Nest and WS Top is 20 =7 oz. ( Also a nice combo with good fall back capabiliy).

SGT Rock
02-06-2005, 18:33
MY early spring & late fall. Three season set = 40 oz plus Weather Shield Set = 15 oz. 55 oz total.

My winter. Four season set =64 oz. ( Could always add the WS for another 15 oz if I want extra insurance).

My spring thru fall. Three season set = 40 oz.

My hot muggy summer. Weather shield set alone = 15 0z. But I have to say I love the Nest so much, it always is in the pack. Nest and WS Top is 20 =7 oz. ( Also a nice combo with good fall back capabiliy).

OK, I am trying to set up my system. I basically follow a system of 60+; 30-60; and 30 - 0.

So if I read you right, 60+ you are using just the weathershield with a Nest.

For 30-60, a Nest,weathershield, and a Rag Mountain.

And for 30 - 0, a Rag Mountain, a Nest, and a NoSniveler. Weathershield is optional.

Am I reading this about right?

peter_pan
02-06-2005, 19:57
Rock,

60 is cool to me....I don't go to just the Nest and WS until above 70.

to use your incriments:

60+..... for me, Nest and No Sniveller

30-60... for me, Nest and No Sniveller ....add Weather shield if lower end is at risk.

below 30...for me, Nest and No sniveller on bottom and Old Rag Mtn on top.... add Weather Shield if expecting single digits.

Note 1, I think that I sleep neutral to warm.

Note 2, We think the Weather Shield is a good 60 degree solution that is more minimalist or UL...but at 50 without a quilt I'm improvising some thing...hence against your scale I like the Nest cause I'm a prepared for another unexpected 10 degree drop.

Note 3, Except for a specific light and fast summer weekend where the Weather Shield can stand alone I prefer to think of the WS as a range extender. The Weather Shield bottom is a low cost waterproof, windproof and breathable entry into the world of under quilts and it readily enables the addition of light insulations. read: a pad, poncho liner, or packed items such as rain gear, sit pad, etc.

SGT Rock
02-06-2005, 20:23
Rock,

60 is cool to me....I don't go to just the Nest and WS until above 70.

to use your incriments:

60+..... for me, Nest and No Sniveller

30-60... for me, Nest and No Sniveller ....add Weather shield if lower end is at risk.

below 30...for me, Nest and No sniveller on bottom and Old Rag Mtn on top.... add Weather Shield if expecting single digits.

Note 1, I think that I sleep neutral to warm.

Note 2, We think the Weather Shield is a good 60 degree solution that is more minimalist or UL...but at 50 without a quilt I'm improvising some thing...hence against your scale I like the Nest cause I'm a prepared for another unexpected 10 degree drop.

Note 3, Except for a specific light and fast summer weekend where the Weather Shield can stand alone I prefer to think of the WS as a range extender. The Weather Shield bottom is a low cost waterproof, windproof and breathable entry into the world of under quilts and it readily enables the addition of light insulations. read: a pad, poncho liner, or packed items such as rain gear, sit pad, etc.

OK, I think I have it. I consider myself a neutral to cold sleeper,funny how that works. But for planning purposes for this system I'll have to adjust, but I think I have it...

For 60+ it will be my nest and Hungry Howie Quilt. 36.3 ounces including stuff sack and suspension system.

For 30-60, Hungry Howie Quilt and No-Sniveler with Weather-shield top and bottom. 50.6 ounces (I haven't figured the weight of the sack yet).

For 30 and below for now I'll have to add my 9.6 ounce evezote pad back in since I don't have another light quilt to add to the system. Although at 25F I didn't need it and I had plenty of clothing to add. Of course it was VERY dry yesterday and today out there. But total weight would be 60.2 ounces.