More on hammocks...or is that hammock moron?

[WhiteMtns]

I've read all the previous posts I can find and see that some hammocks can be made very simply, even cheaply. Most seem to be the Speer type...and subsequent experimentals like FlyFisher's...

Seems a lot of folks don't like the ridgeline, but I'm thinking it's a good thing. Had my original Hennessy (non-A-Sym) for a number of years (forget when I got it, but I think it was 99-00). Now I'm on a real self-reliance kick, wanting most all of my gear to be made by me. No real reason to replace the HH than that.

I was wondering, has anyone attempted to make something similar to the Hennessy? Is it just a matter of side pullouts and a ridgeline added to a FlyFisher/Risk style, or is there significanty more sculpting that is needed? Am I Just a moron who fails to picture this in my mind? Why is there three feet of snow so I can't just experiment and answer my own questions? Oh Well.:confused:

[titanium_hiker]

the thing that would intrigue me with 'making a hennesy' would be the clever, difficult and patented entrance system. Doing that would be a real accomplishment, I think.

titanium_hiker

Oh, and I know how you feel with the make your own gear stuff... it's great, isn't it?

[The Hammocker]

well the entrance is pattented, not that it's that big of a deal but just something to consider. If you want a bugnet fully attached you could use a zipper or velcro on the side, or use Risk's idea of a fold over flap. If bugnet is not something you care about that saves alot of work right there. But the ridgeline could be a seperate thing, or you could lower your tarp and just use that line.

[titanium_hiker]

A ridge line is fairly easy to add, it's just a piece of cord, really. I use a cord for suspending the bug net over me. Also, if you eliminate a ridgeline for the tarp, sometimes it can be really close on your face. I use two ridgelines, one for the net that I can touch (it's not as strong as henessy's sounds though) and one to hold my (sadly, leaking) tarp.

titanium_hiker

[flyfisher]

I've read all the previous posts I can find and see that some hammocks can be made very simply, even cheaply. Most seem to be the Speer type...and subsequent experimentals like FlyFisher's...

Seems a lot of folks don't like the ridgeline, but I'm thinking it's a good thing. Had my original Hennessy (non-A-Sym) for a number of years (forget when I got it, but I think it was 99-00). Now I'm on a real self-reliance kick, wanting most all of my gear to be made by me. No real reason to replace the HH than that.

I was wondering, has anyone attempted to make something similar to the Hennessy? Is it just a matter of side pullouts and a ridgeline added to a FlyFisher/Risk style, or is there significanty more sculpting that is needed? Am I Just a moron who fails to picture this in my mind? Why is there three feet of snow so I can't just experiment and answer my own questions? Oh Well.:confused:


If you have some questions about how the Hennessey Hammock is put together, his patent is very clear. Just look it up on the US Patent Office website. The opening self closes just because of the weight. Neither his opening nor the fixed ridgeline can be used in any other commercial hammock.

[titanium_hiker]

Ahh.. but if you just do it yourself, and don't mass produce and sell it, then it's ok, right? Do US patents apply overseas? (this is just out of curiosity, I don't want to try anything illegal)

titanium_hiker

[The Hammocker]

sure you dont;) (LOL) just kiddin!

[titanium_hiker]

heheh. the head shots at hollywood would shudder at all the bootleg videos/vcds/dvds I've watched (you know, the ones with people getting up and walking across the screen in the middle of, or the ones that say everysooften: "copyright Disney and Pixar, not for reproduction" etc etc)

heheh. no, but arn't international patents differnt? An Australian and an American could own a patent on the same thing in thier own countries, right?

sub thought: in Aus a while ago there was a guy who proved you could patent anything, like a device that lets you see through walls. (a window) but he got the law changed doing that, you have to be a registered inventor to patent anything.

anyway.

(oohh... post # one hundred!)

titanium_hiker

[The Hammocker]

congrats on the 100th post. I'm not sure about the pattent thing though.

[hungryhowie]

Patent law is a division of law unto itself. For people who like making their own gear, patent law is not worth bothering with. If you plan to market or sell the products, however, you'd better pursue licensing or figure out a way around the patent (i.e. do it differently-enough that you aren't infringing on the patent).

I've made several hennessy-style hammocks, and the bottom entrance isn't difficult to implement. The patent drawings do a very good job of explaining every facet of its construction, really...how ironic. Originally, I liked the bottom entrance, but have decided that I now prefer a side entrance hammock. The bottom entrance serves only to add another layer of complexity and possible failure area to the design.

The one hennessey patent that is valuable, however (and the one that, in my opinion, shouldn't be a patent), is the ridgeline.

Anyway, the hammock body is no more than a rectangle of fabric, while the canopy is a paralellogram. Sew the canopy to the hammock body, and construct as you would any other hammock. Hennessy's method of attaching the suspension line to the hammock is needlessly complex and involves burning a very small hole in the gathered fabric, melting all of the layers into solid nylon, and threading the suspension line through. Whipped ends really are a better alternative.

-howie

[flyfisher]

The one hennessey patent that is valuable, however (and the one that, in my opinion, shouldn't be a patent), is the ridgeline.

Hennessy's method of attaching the suspension line to the hammock is needlessly complex and involves burning a very small hole in the gathered fabric, melting all of the layers into solid nylon, and threading the suspension line through. Whipped ends really are a better alternative.

-howie

However, the company has proven their willingness to prosecute those who infringe on the ridgeline. I only mentioned it because it is handy to make and easy to imagine that it is not patented.'
I absolutely agree that whipping the end of the hammock, as we figured out last spring and summer is a considerable improvement over the Speer knot and does not infringe on the Hennessey method either. It is a win-win solution.

[SGT Rock]

Yes, Tom told me the story of how he had to ask Ed Speer to take the ridge-line off the hammocks Ed was selling at the time. I think he didn't mind Ed using it really, but he didn't want to set a precedence of allowing people to copy his patents just in case someone big like MSR or Sierra Designs decided they wanted to get into the hammock business.

[flyfisher]

Makes good sense to me. He was preserving the future. I do hope that Tom gets to sell his hammock business for a zillion dollars someday and hammocks become as common as sleeping mats.

He paid a bunch for the patent and deserves full protection from commercial exploitation. He also has done more for hammock camping than anyone else in the world.

He has also treated me very very well in the purchase of the hammock I had with him.

Viva la Hennessey! :)

[attroll]

Correct me if I am wrong but once you have received a patent then it is only good for 5 years then anyone can use it. I may be wrong on this.

[hungryhowie]

Correct me if I am wrong but once you have received a patent then it is only good for 5 years then anyone can use it. I may be wrong on this.

Actually, I think it's ten years, and you can apply for a number of time extensions.

[titanium_hiker]

hey yeah, I have heard something like this, but it was for books; that if the author was dead for 50 years, anyone can republish the books (hence the jane austen etc)
exception: in the USA it's something like been out of print for 50 years.

titanium_hiker

[flyfisher]

Correct me if I am wrong but once you have received a patent then it is only good for 5 years then anyone can use it. I may be wrong on this.

A patent for an invention is the grant of a property right to the inventor, issued by the United States Patent and Trademark Office. Generally, the term of a new patent is 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States.

The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of the statute and of the grant itself, “the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling” the invention in the United States or “importing” the invention into the United States.

(quoted from the US Patent Office page)

By the way, I have a patent too! But it has nothing to do with hammocks...
It is having to do with one of my other hobbies.

http://tinyurl.com/489ck
US Patent 6,606,074

[WhiteMtns]

Not that I want to infringe on any patent...especially since I just graduated a Law School last August (Master's in Enviromental Law...not J.D.)

But...My idea was to make a suspension/ridgeline separate from the hammock. This would be packed along with the Tarp and set up upon making camp.

There would be loops in this line under the tarp that the hammock body would clip to via small carabiners when needed. The bug netting of the hammock would then be held above you by attaching a couple of mitten hooks to the ridgeline already in place. Since it is a Ridgeline supporting the tarp, and not integrated into the hammock and bug netting, I would not think it would be a problem.

I also intend...second or third generation prototype...to have the body insulated with an integrated top quilt. The body of the hammock serving as sleeping bag. Eliminating a piece of gear.

Making camp would be as easy as tieing up a "clothes line" at the site, staking out the sides of your tarp and eating dinner. Come sack time, simply unpack your "sleeping bag", clip the two ends in place, and a mitten hook or two to suspend the bug net... Maybe have side tieouts on it too. Sleeping bag/hammock never touches the ground or gets exposed to rain.

I'd hesitate to write this idea...but I'm sure it can't be that original. Nothing under the Sun is really original. Just a variation on the theme...But I'd still like to reserve rights if someone runs with it on me;)

[SGT Rock]

I get it. So you are talking like an 8 x 10 tarp that has some big honkin' cord for the main tie outs and includes a line that runs the length of the tarp underneath it. You tie out the tarp like any old tarp,and when you are ready for bed, then you add the hammock up under it.

Some thoughts - Tree huggers are still a good idea. Work on a strap system for the ends of the main rope. MAybe something with a ring system where the rope connects to the straps to make set up a little easier and to reduce wear on the tree straps.

After sleeping in a few different hammocks, I prefer side tie outs on the hammock body, look at this in your prototypes and see what you think.

[WhiteMtns]

Yeah

Tree Huggers are a good idea for the ends of the main line...unless the main line is webbing itself I guess.

I just like the idea of tieing a main line...tossing an 8 by 8 silnylon tarp in a diamond, and hanging out under it...then just clipping my sleeping bag in place when it's time to sleep. Sounds simple. I think the hard part will be getting the inner and outer shell of the sleeping bag/hammock to be sized so that the inner supports the weight, and the outer allows insulation to loft up. It might just be as easy as making the inner smaller, and giving to outer shell material bathtub corners...but I think the loft would still be smashed under you butt.


I actually like the sliding knot that Henessy uses to tension the tarp...

...saw it once in an old scouting book...but don't remember how to tie it...

but I think I would incorporate short lengths of shock cord to the tarp tie outs for "Auto-tensioning" once weight has been applied to the suspension line.


That's money that I don't have. The Wally-Worlds up here do not carry Nylon, nor have a Dollar Table for me to get my hands on significant amounts of material to experiment with.

It's gonna have to wait a while.

I did see that Quest Outfitters has some taffeta on sale that is just slightly lighter thread count than Hennessy uses in the ultralights. Might be just too light, but could be doubled up I guess. I'd still prefer ripstop. Still...no money, no experimentation yet.

[SGT Rock]

The slip knot is a prussik (sp?) knot, it isn't that hard to make. Hungry Howie told me he found Sil-nylon seconds at the $1 fabric section of his local Wal-Mart.

Oh, and I used a hammock that had it'smain support as straps, I didn't like the set up as much, but it would be worth a try.

[hungryhowie]

Hey, WhiteMtns,

Sounds like you're onto the same track I'm on in hammock design. I spent last summer working on, and prototyping many hammock designs, and the main improvement I've been working on is in the suspension. I too, am working on a design that involves hanging the hammock underneath the tarp. This allows a hiker to set up the tarp first and tear-down the tarp last...especially helpful in a rain storm.

My goals for the project have been to design and build a hammock that sets up/ tears down in less than one minute and weighs less than 16oz including tree huggers, suspension line, tarp, and hammock body (with integral bug netting). I'm so close...I just need more time away from school and a couple of more prototypes. It'll probably be this summer before the final working version is out.

I'll save you a bit of work, however, if you're considering attaching the hammock body to the suspension line with a prussic knot. The recommended ratio is a prussic line that is 1/2 - 2/3 the diameter of the suspension line. There are very few lines that are small and strong enough to pull that one off. The next problem, however, is that the weight and force of the occupant tightens the prussic knot to the point that it is no longer able to be moved.

No there is a better solution...I'm just not ready to share yet... :D

-howie

[The Hammocker]

are you talking about a two half hitches or tountline hitch, if not those work fine.