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JesterFSU
07-05-2011, 19:54
Disclaimer: This will be a rather long post. I will do my best to shorten it where reasonable, but figure good advice requires good information to go on.

Would like to start by saying I have been reading around on WhiteBlaze for a couple of weeks when I get the chance. This seems like a great forum, with a lot of knowledgeable and helpful people. I would also like to say thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to share some relevant wisdom. As the title implies this is preparation for my first recreational hiking/backpacking trip. While I would like responses that focus on my specific situation from knowledgeable sources, more general advice will also be appreciated, and hopefully useful to others who may use this a resource.

The Skinny: Georgia AT. Springer to ? (most likely Deep Gap NC.)
8 days on trail. Sat. 9/3 - Sun. 9/11
Myself and friend. Leaving his car at start, will be picked up by wifey upstream.

Questions: Mileage? Temperature? Bugs? Campfires? AYCE/Whiskey?

Lengthy backstory (with more specific queries): Ok so me and my buddy, we'll call him Bo, decided we wanted to go for a hike. He has mentioned several times in the past couple years going hiking on the appalachian trail, so we agreed to go this time next year. Because of a scheduling opportunity we moved it to this fall on a whim. Much of his side of the planning discussion that I will relate in a bit will be somewhat sarcastic and exagerrated, but will be keeping to the nature of his arguments. We generally get along great, our friendship has occasionally been put to the test by mutual stubbornness, but those tests have shown it to be solid. I almost titled this post "a tale of two hikers" though. We are not agreeing on much other than the skinny above, that said we are both excited and know that its going to be a good trip.

Both of us are 30ish. My only hiking experience would be better termed humping experience. I feel I am ready for this trip because 10+ years ago I finished the Marine Corps Crucible. He feels the actual hiking portion of this will be a piece of cake because he "shagged carts at Sams club for 8 hours a day", mind you 10+ years ago as well. But to his credit it was before those motorized auto pushers. We are both NOT in optimal shape. I will get back to this as it is a consideration for the mileage discussion in a bit. Personalities wise... I am generally spontaneous and would consider myself an optimistic realist, he generally over thinks and plans stuff and tends toward (or atleast argues the) pessimistic side of the realism spectrum. Best way to describe us is: I will do pretty much anything whenever unless you give me a good reason WHY NOT to. He won't do anything ever unless you give him a good reason WHY he should. We generally balance each other out. My wife saw an REI class, camping for couples, and said it would be great for myself and Bo.

So going into this, we are actually experiencing a wierd role reversal. I would typically plan a very optimistic destination, with aggressive daily mileages, probably overestimating our capabilities. In this case I think 10-15 miles a day, hence Deep Gap in 8 days, is about right for us. He thinks we should be able to do like 30 miles a day. Logically breaking that down in to 3 mph for 10 hours per day. AND He thinks thats a conservative estimate, because he read about a thru hiker who did the whole trail in a couple months, and we are going to be out for ONLY a week. I've tried to tell him that the AT with a 25-30lb pack is not going to be like when he goes down to the YMCA with his yellow plastic hat and toolbelt and walks around the track. I brought up climbing and decending, making/breaking camp, possible stops for relaxing a couple hours during heat of the day. His response "seriously? only 15 miles in a day thats ridiculously weak!"
He thinks there are 15 good hiking hours a day, and 2mph is a snails pace for those hours. I beg to differ, I don't think 25 mpd would be impossible, but I also don't think it would be the most enjoyable 8 days of my life either. Physically wise I think we will both be stressed, but can handle whatever we set out to do. The only real non-aerobic physical limitation between us is my knees. There not the worst, but I know at the end of the day they will be the my biggest complaint, and possibly most significant limitation.

#1 Comments on mileage from seasoned packers with specifics about the nature of climbing and decending on this portion of the trail would be much appreciated. If my ankles are not a concern, are cushiony athletic shoes acceptable footwear?

Our other primary dispute is over essential gear. He wants to play survivor man. (This particular argument was mostly to get a rise out of me, but still much along the lines of how he his thinking..gearwise) During our initial discussion on gear he basically said that he intends to bring his bookbag for food, and a tarp. Maybe a gatorade bottle for filling up with water all along the trail. He didn't need any extra clothes or because he could just wash in a stream and even that would just be a courtesy to me.
As I said, much of the argument/discussion above was to get a rise out of me, because I would normally be the one to go camping with a knife, a tarp, a camelback and some paracord. While his idea of camping involves air mattresses and generators. We are both intelligent and responsible. Regardless of what he decides as essential gear we will have the ability to carry adequate water, a way to kill the bad stuff in said water, first aid... etc. Oh yeah, and a shotgun for hunting grizzly bears.

I've since imposed conditions for my participation, and I knew imposing conditions was somewhat of a faux pas, and going to get a rise out him, but the conditions were mostly a way to have a more serious gear discussion than the argument above. He must bring a backpack with a hip belt, a sleeping bag and something capable of carrying 128oz of water. The conditions served their purpose and sparked discussion. "What exactly constitutes a sleeping bag?" "A blanket with a zipper?.... So if I sew a zipper on my comforter...." "What if I only have 96oz of water?" I'll buy you an F'n gatorade and then we'll hit the trail.

After the obligatory juvenile arguing was done, we settled that he did intend to bring a legitamate pack all along, will likely bring a bladder for water, but insists a sleeping bag is not necessary. We ultimately intend to do a good portion of the trail via a section hike annually. We want to space out our expenditures and buy gear as it becomes necessary. I am certain that if we do a northeast section in late fall next year he will bring a bag and probably some pants, so it really comes down to what is NECESSARY for the AT in georgia in early september. I plan on bringing a pack, most of the essentials, a tent, a sleeping bag, my camelback and a nalgene, some purification tablets, a pot and a spoon. Using what I have, I will have to buy a pack, tent, and sleeping bag. I would like to wait til next year to purchase a sleep pad, stove and filter. Bo said he was not going to sleep in the tent, nor carry any of it. Told him I'm fine with that and that the flap is open if he wants in, but from that moment he is carrying it the rest of the way. I think the mosquitos will be the deciding factor in this test of will. Its the primary reason I am bringing a tent instead of relying on shelters as Bo wishes to do.

#2 About what temperature ranges should we expect. Day? Night? does 75-85/45-55 sound about right? Obvious comfort value aside, is a sleeping bag a virtual necessity.

#3 Is september a bad month for bugs? I know there will be buggers, but how would you rate them on a scale of 1-10 where 1= occasional 5 = annoying 10 = deadly swarm? Is there much difference at different altitudes.

#4 I know campfires are not allowed along certain portions of the AT. And for those sections a stove would obviously be more essential. That doesn't apply to Georgia though except under special circumstances like drought... right? What are limitations on where you can have a campfire. For example is there a fire ring at each shelter and those are the only legal places along the trail to have a fire?

#5 Grizzly bear thing was a joke on many levels.

Lastly, we are planning one resupply. Depending on progress we would like to get out in to a trail town. But we may have to just do a resupply at the Walasi-Yi center. Not ideal though considering it is relatively early on in our journey. Figure we will be there end of day 2 or early day 3. We would be leaving there pretty heavy if we planned on going the rest of the way. Ideally finding an easy-in/easy-out trail town around 60-70 miles would be great. Primary considerations would be full grocery store, restaurant decent price/decent food preferably AYCE, and a bar or pub to have a drink.

#6 Is Walasi center right on the trail, like can't miss it? Also, what would be a good next stop based on the above criteria.

I will definitely respond to any questions, and probably post some more of my own. But I hope I've provided a chuckle or two and given you enough to provide some input.

nufsaid
07-05-2011, 20:02
Still to long to hold my attention.

Beachcomber
07-05-2011, 20:04
A piece of advice from a relative newbie to this site: I spent several weeks searching the threads, reading new posts, focusing on my areas of interest and learned a huge amount before I made the first post or asked the first question. Folks here are generous with their time, knowledge and insights, but it's asking an awful lot to expect anyone to wade through a huge chunk of prose like this, when the bulk of the questions have been addressed in detail in other threads. In my business I sometimes get email inquiries: "Will you please tell me everything about your services?" I have to answer: "I've spent years developing a detailed website that answers every imaginable question I've ever been asked; please read what's already been written, and THEN let me know if you still have unanswered questions."

30 Large
07-05-2011, 20:08
As stated in the other thread, most all of those questions can be answered by searching the forums.

In my opinion though, 25 mi a day for inexperienced backpackers will be extremely difficult. Instead of jumping straight into a section hike, I would recommend doing some 2-3 day weekend trips with about 10-14 miles a day. See how you handle that before you bite off more than you can chew.

Big Dawg
07-05-2011, 20:11
A piece of advice from a relative newbie to this site: I spent several weeks searching the threads, reading new posts, focusing on my areas of interest and learned a huge amount before I made the first post or asked the first question. Folks here are generous with their time, knowledge and insights, but it's asking an awful lot to expect anyone to wade through a huge chunk of prose like this, when the bulk of the questions have been addressed in detail in other threads. In my business I sometimes get email inquiries: "Will you please tell me everything about your services?" I have to answer: "I've spent years developing a detailed website that answers every imaginable question I've ever been asked; please read what's already been written, and THEN let me know if you still have unanswered questions."

wise advice...........

Iceaxe
07-05-2011, 20:14
I will take a stab at #6: Walasi Yi center is actually on top of the trail. If you miss it you are not on the A.T. Anyhow, i resupplied at the store there and found adequate food to get me to the next resupply town which for me was Hiawassee GA. Hiawassee in fact might be a good resupply for you as well.
At Walasi Yi (Neel Gap) you can expect candy bars, Knoor sides, oatmeal, peanut butter etc. kinda a small resupply but plenty.
Hiawassee GA has everything you might need including lodging.
As for the mileages you can expect, I was in very good condition and had trained before my AT hike this year. Georgia, North carolina.. actually the whole A.T. is very physically challenging. The few times I made 30 miles in a day were accomplished by hiking long days rather than walking fast. You can expect hills, hills, and more hills. Don't let the low elevations fool you. The A.T. has the power to kick your butt. It also has the power to totally charm you while it kicks your butt. For me it is never about how many miles I make in a day.. i just begin hiking at dawn and end up someplace at dusk. Some people like to plan their days down to the mile. If I were you I would just take a few practice hikes and see where you are at physically. Then just plan conservatively and hike the trail. You will be able to adapt anything and everything about your hike once you are actually out there.

Rocket Jones
07-05-2011, 20:30
Search for "Supercat stove". Dead simple, insanely cheap and effective.
Search for "FBC" or "Freezer Bag Cooking".
With a Supercat and FBC, you can get by with a Greasepot, available at K-Mart. (So-called because "greasepot" is stamped into the lid.)
I'd say a sleeping bag is a necessity for September.
Not carrying a warm layer and a shell (or rain layer) is stupid. You can get hypothermia at 50*.
Bring a stocking cap (beanie, toque, whatever you want to call it), or a balaclava and light gloves.
If nothing else, Wally World sells blue foam sleeping pads for around $10.00. That's the minimum I'd take because restful sleep on the trail is critical to your physical and mental well-being.

Slo-go'en
07-05-2011, 20:32
Questions: Mileage? Temperature? Bugs? Campfires? AYCE/Whiskey?

Mileage -10-12 mpd. At best, every other shelter to start.

Temp/bugs - don't know, I've only been there in the spring.

Campfires? Yes, if you can still find any wood within 1/4 mile

AYCE - there's a few.

Whisky? Unless you brought it with you, not a change in that part of GA/NC - your real luckyto be able to get beer now days. Not so long ago it wasn't until you hit VA that you could even get beer closer than 20 miles to the trail.

JesterFSU
07-05-2011, 20:51
Thanks for the responses so far.
Ice axe, I appreciate the input about Walasi. How far down the trail is Hiawassee? I wanted a convenient stop, but also a good one. I will definately look into Hiawassee more, as well as any other suggestions people may have. No bars in any trail towns though? I was also thinking 10-12 mpd as a realistic estimate. It is just hard to convince my buddy that climbing and descending is going to going to make this more difficult than walking around town.

I was actually planning to go out and a 10-15 mile day. I have humped 40miles with 40lbs in 2days with the USMC so I am not a total noob and understand the rigors, BUT that was 10 years ago. I will definitely try to get out before hand and try out the new pack with a load, and guage my knees reaction to some mileage.

And thanks for the advice on cheap gear to fill in the gaps. I will look into that stuff. And I forget to mention in my post that I will have adequate clothing, and hopefully rain gear, if not proper rain gear atleast a poncho. My buddy may not, but we agreed If he comes unprepared I can laugh at his misery and then save his ass if necessary.

Silverstone
07-05-2011, 20:59
Sounds to me like your buddy is in for a rude awakening.

JesterFSU
07-05-2011, 21:19
Im sure he is too, to an extent. But he is not dumb, just arguing irrationally for the sake of it. But he clearly is under-estimating some aspects of the trip. My primary concerns for myself are my knees and bugs. And those to things I can't really prepare for or alter. I will just have to deal with it when it becomes and issue. I would really like for someone who lives in the area or hikes it in September to offer some temperature expectations. And also a wise decision on shoes will probably go a long way for my knees.

bobqzzi
07-05-2011, 21:25
Your condition 10 years ago has nothing to do with your current condition. 10 years ago I rode my bicycle across the country, yesterday I struggeled with 10 flat miles. Perhaps it is best not to lock in some mileage requirement, but rather hike until the wealer person wants to stop. Hike your 8 days then get picked up wherever you are.

As others have said, look at the many hundreds of gear lists posted. Choose a minimalist list if you'd like, but I don't think it is wise to think you can leave off items you see on virtually every list.

sbhikes
07-05-2011, 23:06
Like I said in your first attempt at this post. Your hike is doomed.

Actually let me revise that. Your hike is doomed if you hike with your buddy. He's totally unrealistic and his attitude makes him more of a liability than an asset. If you insist on hiking with him, have in the back of your mind a couple of back-up scenarios. One for if you can't make the kind of mileage he thinks you can and another for if you can't stand to hike with him any further. Maybe have another for what to do if he hurts himself playing survivor man.

cavediver256
07-06-2011, 00:37
First off, forget the USMC mentality of "hiking", secondly, If you start at Springer Mountain, the trip to 3 Forks is gonna be relatively easy because it has been all down hill, that is when the climbing starts, by the time you make it over Blood Mountain to Neels Gap, I predict, one or both of you are gonna be looking for the door!!!! You both will be suffering from the ill effects bad decisions you have made along the way. Not to worry though, Winton and the staff at Walasi Yi will be more than happy to point both of you in the right direction if you decide you want to continue. They will be more than happy to help you get the right gear and ship all the useless/unnecessary stuff home.

There is loads of information here that can help you make the right decisions before hand, but its obvious that you two may be those guys that has to pee on the electric fence before you listen to anybody else that tells you it isn't a good idea.

A ill fitting overweight pack, without all the necessary equipment is gonna make for a miserable walk in the woods, no matter how glamorous it may sound in Bill Bryson's book. You can get tons of advice from different people, usually only about 20-30lbs of that advice with be worth lugging around on your back.

fiddlehead
07-06-2011, 00:47
Sounds to me like your buddy is in for a rude awakening.

I disagree.
I think your buddy has a better chance of enjoying his hike than the OP.
He seems to think outside the box. Is not into what gear he has, is happy with a gatoraide bottle (Hopefully he knows to camel up at water sources), tends to think he can use just any old sack to carry his gear (true IMO),
But you, insist on a hipbelt, a certain number for oz of water? (what's up with that?) (even after a rainstorm when every seep is running???)

I've hiked with people who think a hipbelt is necessary, others think a trumpline is necessary, others think a bamboo pole to balance the load is necessary. Who is right? (all of them, in their own way)

Don't be a sheep OP. Don't listen to the gear heads who will have you buying what they use.
Use your own judgement and basically: Just get out there and hike and find out for yourself if you can get by with sewing a zipper into a quilt (good idea me thinks)

Try to open your mind and see all angles of this game. And it is a game. It can be fun. It can be frustrating. It can be your life.
But please stop trying to tell your friends how and what they should think.

If you're into watching videos, see Lynn Wheldon's video about lightweight backpacking. He describes how to think outside the box and gives some fine examples of different ways to carry your gear.

Have fun out there.

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 09:28
First and foremost, I am pretty confident that we will both have a great time. I am aware that our conditioning 10 years ago has no impact on today. That is why I used those examples of why we are not in optimal condition. I appreciate greatly those of you who are able to read through some of the sarcasm. In our friendship, it is wierd for me to be the one who is being conservative and spending time on planning. And he is really just arguing the minimalist extreme for the sake of it, though he obviously lies further on that side of spectrum than I do, just hopefully not quite as far as his words would lead one to believe. He doesn't believe a tent is necessary, nor a sleeping bag. The hipbelt requirement was just a way of saying... bring a pack capable of transporting essential gear and adequate food and water, not your old half torn-up bookbag. And as for the water... I firmly believe you should never be completely out of water. What if you break an ankle. I think a liter of water that never gets opened, is a sign of good planning, not as unnecessary. But I knew going when I presented conditions, there would be immediate backlash. Which there was but discussion did follow.You are right Cavediver. I don't want this to feel like a forced march from point A to B. The reason I left the end point open in the original post is I thought based on my readings here that 10-12mpd was about right to have an enjoyable time.Me and Bo both agree that realistically we will have to get out there and see how easy or tough the miles come, and just kind of fall into a pace that suits as opposed to trying to meet specific goals. And it helps that we have and end point will come to us, not the other way around. We don't HAVE to make it to where we parked a car or the such.Does anyone have advice on footwear. If you have knees that aren't the greatest, I would really appreciate your wisdom.

sbhikes
07-06-2011, 10:02
I suggest you read this article here on Whiteblaze. You might actually find most of your questions answered reading the various articles. This article is called How to Dirt Bag and Deal Shop like a Professional (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?15329-Cheap-Gear-%96-How-to-Dirt-Bag-and-Deal-Shop-Like-a-Professional&p=206678#post206678).

The shoe question gets asked every day. There's even one or maybe even two forums devoted to footwear plus one devoted to health issues. The most important thing you can do with footwear is wear shoes with a generous toebox and that aren't going to give you blisters. Something comfortable you already wear. Because as soon as you get blisters, you'll favor one side and THAT will give you knee problems.

Pedaling Fool
07-06-2011, 10:07
Just go hike, it really is that easy on the AT.

Rain Man
07-06-2011, 10:39
Before I invest my good time wading through that morass of all your angst (what you euphemistically call sarcasm) a second time, let me ask for a commitment out of you--

Will you post a thorough and complete trip report with pics, ... no matter the outcome of your hike?

If you'll promise that reward, then I'll consider making the investment.

Rain Man

.

BobTheBuilder
07-06-2011, 10:50
Two things - First, I think your mileage is too high, Bo's is ridiculous. Georgia AT is not really flat anywhere, and the southern section of NC is worse. 8-10 mpd to start is pretty good through this section for anybody who is not a thru hiker or an ultra marathoner. Maybe 12-14 after a few days. It's not really about leg strength. Things you don't normally use will get sore, and you will start walking differently to avoid the pain, then other things get sore. Second, hiking without carrying some kind of shelter and some kind of sleeping bag is irresponsible, in my opinion. If things go south and you don't have a way to get warm and dry, you are going to inconvenience a lot of people with your demise.

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 11:10
Rain Man - Yes. and I am a man of word, so I will post a trip report for better or worse. Going to get a little journal to keep and not use for anything other than sections on the trail. Will be interesting to see if there is change in attitude between morning 1, night 1, and night 7. Had to look up morass by the way. Good word for my OP. Disagree with angst though. Not my nature at all. And I do appreciate you reading through it and offering advice.

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 11:30
BobTheBuilder - I really like the the discussion on things getting sore. Its not an obvious consideration, but very logical and makes perfect sense. Mileage wise do you think springer to deep gap (86ish miles) in 8days is optimistic? The only real requirement for this trip is ending at a road crossing on the saturday night or sunday morning 8days after we leave springer. As to which road that will be, will likely determine that on day 5 or 6 after we get a feel for the trail and our capabilities. One of me and Bo's disputes is over how many hours a day we will actually be hiking. I believe that he honestly thinks (despite his 15hr day arguments) 10-12 hours a day on the trail. I am thinking more around 8. Im not really one for stopping to admire scenery, but I think an hour to rest and relax here and there would be good for morale, and I definately have a notion that I am going to throw a hook with a worm into a stream and pull out dinner. It may be a whimsical notion, as there may not even be streams with fish along the trail, but I do want to relax a bit and just enjoy being outdoors.

jburgasser
07-06-2011, 12:07
The Skinny: Georgia AT. Springer to ? (most likely Deep Gap NC.)
8 days on trail. Sat. 9/3 - Sun. 9/11
Myself and friend. Leaving his car at start, will be picked up by wifey upstream.

Questions: Mileage? Temperature? Bugs? Campfires? AYCE/Whiskey?

I think 10-15 miles a day, hence Deep Gap in 8 days, is about right for us. He thinks we should be able to do like 30 miles a day. Logically breaking that down in to 3 mph for 10 hours per day. AND He thinks thats a conservative estimate, because he read about a thru hiker who did the whole trail in a couple months, and we are going to be out for ONLY a week. He thinks there are 15 good hiking hours a day, and 2mph is a snails pace for those hours. I beg to differ, I don't think 25 mpd would be impossible. Physically wise I think we will both be stressed, but can handle whatever we set out to do. The only real non-aerobic physical limitation between us is my knees. There not the worst, but I know at the end of the day they will be the my biggest complaint, and possibly most significant limitation.

#6 Is Walasi center right on the trail, like can't miss it? Also, what would be a good next stop based on the above criteria.

10 miles a day doable in september for someone who is used to a level of constant, steady, daily activity.
You will encounter lots of bugs. But bug spray actually works.
Campfires are fine in designated fire rings but most people don't bother with them. Too many other campsite required activities to do.
No matter how heavy or light your pack is, 8 days worth of whiskey is not worth the weight!!
3 miles/hr with a full pack for 10 hours?? "Bo" needs to listen to someone when they tell him he don't know ***t. What about lunch? What about a 15 minute break every couple hours? What about filtering and refilling water? The AT (especially GA and NC) is very short on any level ground. I swear sometimes I think it was mapped out to go over every mountain and then back down again in Ga! He will be in a world of hurt if he goes out for 30 miles on day 1, or day 2, or day 3!
25 mpd is pretty much impossible for you too. And wouldn't that put you at 400 miles in 8 days??
Hurting knees are an absolute deal breaker. If your knees are hurting, more walking won't help.
Descending the steep is almost as slow going as ascending that same steep. Especially with sore knees.
It doesn't sound like Bo is mature or responsible...
The trail literally goes right thru a breezeway at the Walasi-Yi center. You can't miss it.

jburgasser
07-06-2011, 12:14
AYCE - there's a few.

What is AYCE?

jburgasser
07-06-2011, 12:17
[
And also a wise decision on shoes will probably go a long way for my knees.

If you are worried about your knees then you need boots, not shoes. Hiking poles will make a big difference too!
GO NOLES!

WingedMonkey
07-06-2011, 12:18
I sugest you and "Bo" go camping for a weekend first, see if you still love each other on Monday.

pyroman53
07-06-2011, 12:27
8 days worth of whiskey is not worth the weight!!

Blasphemy!

bigmac_in
07-06-2011, 12:29
Before I invest my good time wading through that morass of all your angst (what you euphemistically call sarcasm) a second time, let me ask for a commitment out of you--

Will you post a thorough and complete trip report with pics, ... no matter the outcome of your hike?

If you'll promise that reward, then I'll consider making the investment.

Rain Man

.

WOW - you must have some sage advice to make such a demand.:rolleyes:

jburgasser
07-06-2011, 12:30
Mileage wise do you think springer to deep gap (86ish miles) in 8days is optimistic? The only real requirement for this trip is ending at a road crossing on the saturday night or sunday morning 8days after we leave springer. I definately have a notion that I am going to throw a hook with a worm into a stream and pull out dinner. It may be a whimsical notion, as there may not even be streams with fish along the trail, but I do want to relax a bit and just enjoy being outdoors.

There are no fish in the streams along the AT between Springer and Deep Gap.
86 miles in 8 days should be fine for you guys. My father-in-law sectioned the same amount in 9 days. The first 3 days we finished each day at around 2:00. So we we decided to lengthen our days and by the time we finished we were leaving camp at around 8:30 am and hiking until 4ish. We did one 16 mile day from Deep Gap Shelter in Georgia to Muskrat Creek Shelter, NC that took us from 8:00 am to 6:30 pm. That one was a killer! Brutal climbs in the last few miles.

JB

bigmac_in
07-06-2011, 12:36
While I am not a wise old sole - here's my 2 cents.

Study up by searching other threads as mentioned, go out and hike a while, plan on 8-10 miles a day. If you do more or less, who cares?

No matter what you do, you'll figure out things to improve the next time you go. My guess is you are both going to be surprised by lower mileage than expected, will be tired when you're done, and ready to plan the next trip.

Have fun.

bigmac_in
07-06-2011, 12:45
Or SOUL, maybe. :D

jburgasser
07-06-2011, 12:48
The parking area at Deep Gap in NC is at the end of a 6 mile one lane gravel road. It is graded really well though. Just tell your wife to drive it slow!

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 13:14
Thanks for the all the responses. I can not format these responses at work so bear with me.I did want to say I read the dirt bagging thread, a week or two ago and there were a lot of useful insights there. It is not so much about the money for not stocking up on every piece of UL cool gear out there. Though money is a big consideration. It is more about thinking of collecting my gear over time and as it is truly necessary. Like searching for parts to finish a hot rod, as opposed to going to down to the lot and buying one. I don't think a stove is truly necessary. I think it would be great to have down the road, and would be incredibly comforting in areas/states where fires are strictly prohibited, but ultimately you don't have to have hot beverages or food items. I personally do want oatmeal and rice and pasta, so I would not go on multi-day trek without the ability to heat a meal, but I am sure there are some who do. And I personally love campfires. I would not think getting a good little fire going for the night as a task. Now collecting some wood, from what I have read that may be a different story.

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 13:25
Jburgasser, thanks for all the input, especially about pick up at deep gap. Im sure I can research and find this out on my own, but if anyone knows off the top of their head the previous and next vehicle access points surrounding deep gap it would be appreciated.So far everyone has helped me settle on only one day of whiskey, and eight days of motrin. (aka marine corps M&M's) I definately will look into poles, i can see them being a big help on descents. Even now running up hill doesn't bother me near as much as running down hill. I will also look try to search for a forum on footwear. I read one thread a week or two ago that the poster was advocating athletic footwear being fine if your ankles are good. My running shoes have a solid sole (and no air or gell pockets) that would protect me from sharp rocks, but also a lot of cushioning and ventilation.

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 13:28
AYCE = all you can eat. Lived for 15 years in Tallahassee and love me a good southern buffet. Tallahassee is not northern Florida, contrary to popular belief, it is actually southern Georgia. Been up maryland for year and already can't remember what the bugs where like in september down there. I'm taking it they are not really tapering off by early september?

bigmac_in
07-06-2011, 13:34
Jburgasser, thanks for all the input, especially about pick up at deep gap. Im sure I can research and find this out on my own, but if anyone knows off the top of their head the previous and next vehicle access points surrounding deep gap it would be appreciated.So far everyone has helped me settle on only one day of whiskey, and eight days of motrin. (aka marine corps M&M's) I definately will look into poles, i can see them being a big help on descents. Even now running up hill doesn't bother me near as much as running down hill. I will also look try to search for a forum on footwear. I read one thread a week or two ago that the poster was advocating athletic footwear being fine if your ankles are good. My running shoes have a solid sole (and no air or gell pockets) that would protect me from sharp rocks, but also a lot of cushioning and ventilation.

South is Dick's Creek Gap in Georgia, north is Rock Gap, which is just outside Standing Indian Campground in NC. Both are paved roads, with the AT either passing right through (DCG), or right beside (Rock Gap).

jburgasser
07-06-2011, 13:38
Deep Woods Off spray works good for me. It keeps the mosquitos at bay. At camp you can wear a long sleeve polypro or coolmax shirt and pants to keep those basterdly little biting black flies off you. They don't seem to be too fazed by the bug spray.

Jester, you should go to the At website and but the guide book for Georgia and NC. It has detailed info about the trail, mile markers, points of interest, road crossings, etc. You could totally set up your trip with nothing but that small paperback!

JB

jburgasser
07-06-2011, 13:40
you should go to the At website and but the guide book for Georgia and NC.

I meant to say 'buy' the book.

JB

Storm
07-06-2011, 13:52
i usually never try to be negative about any posts, especially with someone new but I think this thread should be moved to the humor section. 30 miles a day for a new hiker? Very doubtfull, maybe you should both go out and try to do the 15 miles on flat ground first, without a pack, and see how that feels. I'm an old guy but I could never do 30 miles a day in my prime on flat ground let alone in the mountains. No tent, no bag, no pad ? Maybe your friend plans to sleep in the trees with the racoons.

Didn't see Lone Wolf comment on this, must still be rolling on the floor laughing.

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 13:57
Last post for this afternoon. Unless RainMan enlightens me with something that requires a response. Wait theres my angst again :P Actually, I would really like to hear from you (RainMan) on this thread. I have seen you all over the board and generally agree with your views and think you have a valuable presence. Your opinion WILL be valued much like my whiskey and motrin. Those that just suggest to go search for your answers, thanks. Those that suggest to a thread to read and provide some direction toward that thread, I offer a genuine thanks. I apologize if the length of my OP seems pretentious considering I am new here. I did not mean to impose my prose upon anyone. I hoped it would be viewed as a somewhat amusing read to those with years of backpacking wisdom, give some incite into the mindset of a couple of noobs with some very basic differences in opinion. And ultimately allow you guys to pass on some wisdom, by asking some specific questions. YES there are specific questions in there :) I HAVE read ALOT on this forum, and to some extent it has been information overload. I started out not knowing much more about the appalachian trail than its general geographic location. I have read many of the stickys on here, looked at the guides, follow some of the active threads, and do some planning elsewhere also.

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 14:03
jburgasser - have looked into that. Would you suggest a guide book for just the section or one for the whole trail. If you buy a specific guide book like GA/NC is it more information, or just a chapter or two out of a guide book for the whole trail?And will without a doubt be bringing plenty of deep woods off, though it never works quite as well as I hope.

jburgasser
07-06-2011, 14:35
jburgasser - have looked into that. Would you suggest a guide book for just the section or one for the whole trail. If you buy a specific guide book like GA/NC is it more information, or just a chapter or two out of a guide book for the whole trail?And will without a doubt be bringing plenty of deep woods off, though it never works quite as well as I hope.

The thru hiker's companion is the book that the ATC sells for the whole trail. But it is data only (21.3-water; 25.2-Summit Blood Mtn. (4470 ft.)) with no information about what you are seeing. I like the state-by-state guide books because of all the extra information it gives. The GA-NC book goes from Amicalola (the 8 mile approach trail) through the Smokies. Going NOBO you have to read each section backwards but it is a great book. To save weight you could just copy the pages you need so not to bring the whole book. But that book is not big by any means; probably 3" x 5". It is separated into 5 - 15 mile sections and shows everything you will come across on the trail and at what mile each landmark is at. It shows elevations for various gaps (low points) and peaks or balds. It tells you where water is along the trail, road crossings (both paved and unpaved or gravel forest service roads), shelters, clearings to set up camps that are not near shelters, and gives historical and anecdotal info along the way. My father-in-law and I plan to section hike as much of the trail as we can and I plan on buying each book (and map of course) as we get into each state.

To answer your question: If you buy the guidebook for GA/NC you are not just getting a chapter or two out of a guide book for the whole trail but an entire book, maybe 3/4" thick, dedicated to only the AT from Springer (plus the Approach Trail) to the northern point of the Smokies, Davenport Gap. It may go further, but not into Virginia.

JB

jburgasser
07-06-2011, 14:39
Jester - I graduated from FSU in 93'. Best 6 1/2 years ever!!

JB

bigmac_in
07-06-2011, 14:51
Not really that much wisdom here. Go hike, you'll figure it out.

sbhikes
07-06-2011, 15:54
If you think the article on Dirbagging like a pro is just a way to backpack on the cheap, you didn't read it. You mentioned stoves. Here's what the article said about stoves:


5. Your gear can even be recycled trash. Model T has done three thru-hikes with a stove made from soda cans. Many hikers re-use old soda bottles for their drink containers. If that kind of gear ever wears out or breaks, you can just make another for free. No sense in paying for something you were just going to throw away anyway.

6. Cost is no way to evaluate the value of a piece of equipment. You can spend $300 on a jacket just to have it not work the way you want or you can spend $15 on a jacket and be perfectly happy with it. The $150 stove is often no better than the $50 stove, you often pay for name brands in backpacking gear. A $5 pot at Wal-Mart can hold food just as good as a $50 pot at REI.

I think you just want an excuse to buy something. But the seasoned hikers, the ones doing the 30 miles a day aren't usually carrying Jet Boils and Nalgenes. They made their own stoves from a soda can and use gatorade bottles.

Here's a good website on making stoves:
http://www.zenstoves.net

Another useful website is backpacking light. Read the gear lists. You should be able to find gear lists for the AT. A lot of these people go very light, but you can read the comments and get ideas on how to a) outfit yourself with high quality gear that's actually worth the money, b) outfit yourself with gear you make yourself, c) lighten your existing gear, d) see what is really necessary to bring (so that that 8 day supply of whiskey doesn't have to be left behind.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/display_forum.html?forum=37

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 18:40
I was actually going to comment on the soda can stove before your post sbhikes. I think it is pretty damn cool, I would use one just because I can make it my self. I took a lot of good information away from that post. Due to the aforementioned info overload, I have trouble remembering so many things that I have read in the past couple of weeks. One that does stick out though is aluminum siding nails as tent stakes. The tent I bought comes with fancy stakes, but I think I am returning it for a slightly smaller lighter weight tent that supposedly doesn't come with enough stakes. Anyways thanks for the links I will check them out in a bit. I like the idea of making some gear and customizing some as well.

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 19:13
bigmac - just getting out there and doing it is 75% of Bo's planning. I'm trying to keep it down to about 50%.

JB - I moved to tally in highschool and started at Florida State in 99. You left with a national championship. I came into a national championship my freshman year. Met my wife in the dorms that year to. Must say it was the best of times. I get you on the 6 1/2 aswell. I dicked around a bit too much first two years. Took a year off to focus myself and save some money to make up for those scholarships that I lost. As I was planning my return to school, my reserve unit was activated and I spent two wonderful years on active duty mostly in Djibouti Africa. Check out the video link below if you have a minute. Anyways came back with my head on straight, changed my major, and got an engineering degree. All said and done it was an 8+ year Bachelors.


This pretty much sums up our deployment... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffmLSFKfnU

And this one is just amusing. This is a buddy of mine, not me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKDTCxplx80

Toolshed
07-06-2011, 19:26
Somehow I don't think you are done posting yet....FWIW, I tried to read your first two paragraphs and my eyes hurt. I tried again and found my mind wandering. I then tried to read it a 3rd time and felt an urge to puke... I still don't know what this thread it about.. Perhaps you could cut it all down to a paragraph by simply stating the facts and leave out all the verbosity.... just saying Yknow.......:rolleyes:

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 19:53
If I could edit it down right now I would, as I figure anyone who intends to, is willing to, or is capable of reading through it probably already has. I think the current service of allowing editing only to paying members, is kind of a disservice to paying members. They are also stuck reading mistypings or miscommunications from people who can't go back and fix their post as a courtesy to everyone.

I may eventually become a donating member, as it stand now though I am testing the waters. Believe it or not this is first forum that I have ever actually registered for and posted to. There have been others at times that I have surfed around on reading up on a topic or two, mostly to get info on buying something or repairing something.

And in hindsight, I now realize brevity and succinctness is valued highly here when looking for answers.

House of Payne
07-06-2011, 20:55
Holy crap can the Jester write, way too long.....I never finished the 2nd paragraph. These guys sound exactly like Bill Bryson and 'Katz' in the book "A walk in the woods"...A good read for your fall trip.

JesterFSU
07-06-2011, 21:17
Just read the wikipedia entry for a walk in the woods. It does sound like an interesting read for our trip.

bigmac_in
07-06-2011, 21:21
If I could edit it down right now I would, as I figure anyone who intends to, is willing to, or is capable of reading through it probably already has. I think the current service of allowing editing only to paying members, is kind of a disservice to paying members. They are also stuck reading mistypings or miscommunications from people who can't go back and fix their post as a courtesy to everyone.

I may eventually become a donating member, as it stand now though I am testing the waters. Believe it or not this is first forum that I have ever actually registered for and posted to. There have been others at times that I have surfed around on reading up on a topic or two, mostly to get info on buying something or repairing something.

And in hindsight, I now realize brevity and succinctness is valued highly here when looking for answers.


Don't waste your money becoming a donating member. Oops, did I say that out loud?