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ridgewalker777
02-07-2005, 08:19
Here's an idea to consider: As in orienteering, participants would have the option of using punch cards as you travel from section to section. Key landmarks and shelters would have punching devices. This would have partly a verification purpose, but more to impress on the mind the stages of the journey. I was wondering if others thought this deserving of consideration or the ashcan, and whether there are trails besides orienteering where such a system is used.:-?

SGT Rock
02-07-2005, 08:21
I don't see a need for it.

Lone Wolf
02-07-2005, 08:22
To verify what? A thru-hike? It would be easy to cheat.

TJ aka Teej
02-07-2005, 08:38
Some years back Wingy proposed "Avery Monitors" that would be posted up and down the Trail to verify the authenticity of Thruhike claims. There was supposed to be a banquet (hosted by Himself) after the hiking season to hand out awards. The only thing that came of it was general ridicule of the idea, and several parody proposals that included barcode tattoos, tracking chip implants, fingerprint reading white blazes, and parapackers hiding in the trees.
I think the ATC is handling this just fine.

MileMonster
02-07-2005, 09:00
Uh, who needs verification?

Lone Wolf
02-07-2005, 09:03
Who needs verification? The anal, over achieving purists of course. :)

MOWGLI
02-07-2005, 09:07
Well, one thing that might be nice, is something similar to the National Park Service Passport. As you visited different places along the trail, you could hand stamp your passport. The stamps would indicate the location (ex: Walasi-Yi, NOC or Fontana Dam) and provide the date you were there. Individual stamps would have photos from different places along the trail.

It wouldn't be for tracking the validity of a thru-hike, as that would be an impossible task. It would simply serve as a keepsake. I really like my NPS Passport. Anyone else familiar with that?

oldfivetango
02-07-2005, 09:12
Who needs verification? The anal, over achieving purists of course. :) Yeah Mr Wolf-you have hit the nail dead square once more.All I want to
know is,if in the event I were to through hike,what sort of prizes and money
do I get at the end?Do I get an interview on the today show with Katy Couric
or run over to CBS like the Survivor Show losers?Or do I get to endorse products like boots,shoes,tents,or (in my case) hammocks?
In the end,does anyone other than the hiker and his/her family even care?
Somewhere along the way I got the impression that the personal experience
alone was the lure of the trail.In my minds eye I can see Wingnut hunched over an Avery monitor watching the move of every intruder upon his trail.
Cheers to all,
Oldfivetango:bse

The Solemates
02-07-2005, 09:44
What a crock. And another way to argue about punched ballots, hanging chads, dimples, pimples, and horse zits. :rolleyes:

shades of blue
02-07-2005, 09:49
We purists aren't all anal, over achievers....wait, maybe a little anal and we do feel the need to achieve....ummmm never mind.

I think the idea of verification is stupid, if that is the main thrust of all this. The idea that I have to punch anything reminds me of work too much.
As for purists, and blue blazers....HYOH. I enjoyed our little blue blaze Wesser trail hike, but still feel the need to hike the white blazes. That is me...Maybe on my later hikes of the trail, I may not feel that way, but for now, I do. I don't consider blue blazers hippie, underachievers either. Just a different path on the same journey. My .02 :cool:

Jaybird
02-07-2005, 09:54
Here's an idea to consider: As in orienteering, participants would have the option of using punch cards as you travel from section to section. Key landmarks and shelters would have punching devices. This would have partly a verification purpose, but more to impress on the mind the stages of the journey. I was wondering if others thought this deserving of consideration or the ashcan, and whether there are trails besides orienteering where such a system is used.:-?



WOW! what r u smoking? :D

Skeemer
02-07-2005, 09:58
MOWGLI16
Well, one thing that might be nice, is something similar to the National Park Service Passport. As you visited different places along the trail, you could hand stamp your passport.

How much would these Passports weigh?

Youngblood
02-07-2005, 10:04
I'm curious. What are the detailed rules concerning a white blazing purist thru-hike? I've often heard Jack use the term entire trail where entire means entire, but there are so many occassions where one leaves the trail corridor (whatever exactly that is) that I've never been sure how one can be sure they have followed all the rules or not. Is there a written list so that folks know if there are doing it correctly when they get off the trail corridor(?) at shelters, vistas, water sources, hitches to towns that are east of the trail (for nobos), nature breaks, blowdowns, snack breaks, lunch breaks, etc.?

I didn't follow the white blaze purist approach on my thru-hike for long, it seemed a distraction to the purpose of my hike. Loosely, at the beginning my purpose was to enjoy hiking from Springer to Katahdin, experience many of the small towns along the way, not get seriously hurt or die trying and enjoy the company of the folks I met along the way. After I got started I realized that it wasn't exactly one long fun hike, that it was many smaller hikes with trials, tribulations and many decissions that had to be made/remade on practically a daily basis.

Frankly, once the reality of that set in, the white blaze purist approach seemed rather foolish to me as I was looking for a recreational pursuit, not a contest where I had to factor in the white blaze purist approach (whatever that is) into every decission I made regarding stepping off the trail corridor (whatever that is). At that point, I decided to just take the path that took me where I wanted to go along my journey to Katahdin and to enjoy the experience for what it is. But that is just me and the way I look at things, I don't have a problem with white blazing purist and white blazing purist shouldn't have a problem with me. It isn't something that should polarize the AT community, there is room for all of us along the AT corridor (whatever that is).

Youngblood

MOWGLI
02-07-2005, 10:05
How much would these Passports weigh?

Well, I have never weighed one, but then again, I don't weigh much of anything. Maybe 6-7 ounces. The size of a very small book.

This would not be for the gram counters among us - and you know who you are. :D

MOWGLI
02-07-2005, 10:09
In my minds eye I can see Wingnut hunched over an Avery monitor watching the move of every intruder upon his trail.
Cheers to all,
Oldfivetango:bse

When it is all said and done, the ATC patch & certificate is worth just as much as Wingfoots approval. That is to say - nothing. When the hike is done, all you are left with is your memories, so go and hike the trail the way YOU want to. Not the way someone else thinks it should be done.

SGT Rock
02-07-2005, 10:17
Too easy to beat, just get someone to partner up with you and then take turns hiking up to the stamp points and just get those if you really just wanted to get stamps. Then there would be the real trophy takers that would steal them to put in a scrapbook somewhere.

I like the idea of a GPS tracker chip being installed under the skin, that way the Holy Counsel of Verification can ensure you made it when they scan your chip at the end of your hike. Hopefully you don't get hit by lightning and get your chip erased.

rickb
02-07-2005, 10:18
"Some years back Wingy proposed "Avery Monitors" that would be posted up and down the Trail to verify the authenticity of Thruhike claims. "

That is not true.

Time + poor memory + bad feelings = distortion of facts.

I does make a colorful story, however.

Rick B

weary
02-07-2005, 10:20
...In my minds eye I can see Wingnut hunched over an Avery monitor watching the move of every intruder upon his trail. Oldfivetango:bse
Except that Wingfoot never proposed any such thing. He simply argued at one point that the ATC guidelines were a bit vague and should be made clear. More recently he has urged as have I and others that those who apply for a 2,000 mile patch actually follow the guidelines established by those who issue the patch. He is simply against "dishonesty in claiming 2,000 Miler status."

Wingfoot argues that "the Trail (should) give outdoor-recreation enthusiasts an opportunity to travel freely in the mountains and safely experience the natural world around them."

Weary

rickb
02-07-2005, 10:25
The best thing the ATC could do would be to eliminate their 2000-Miler Award, and a formal listing of folks who report having hiked the AT.

They could continue to mail out patches, and/or publish a list of names in thier magazine.

This would be a good message to send, since the mission of the ATC is primarily one of Conservancy. There are alternative hiking organizations that could offer these so-called awards if thier members wanted it.

This will happen, its just a question of when.

Rick B

Lone Wolf
02-07-2005, 10:27
I totally agree with Rick.

SGT Rock
02-07-2005, 10:28
I like that suggestion.

Youngblood
02-07-2005, 10:46
Right now I think the ATC is a little inconsistant. First they say they aren't going to define the term thru-hike, but that they have a definition for a 2000 miler. Then they use the term thru-hike liberally in their literature and even ask you to fill out the 2000 miler application when you finish your thru-hike.

I would think that the ATC would want to know how many people hike between Springer and Katahdin, regardless whether they were white blazing purists, blue blazers, yellow blazers or just hiked it and didn't care what color someone else thought they were suppose to be.

weary
02-07-2005, 10:47
I'm curious. What are the detailed rules concerning a white blazing purist thru-hike?
The Appalachian Trail Conference officially recognizes those hikers completing the entire Trail, either in one season or in sections through the years.

“2,000-Miler” Definition
The ATC confers the designation of “2,000-Miler” on any hiker who reports he or she walked the entire length of the Appalachian Trail. We use the term “2,000-Miler” as a matter of tradition and convenience—that's the original length of the Trail, and changing the designation each time the length changes would be impractical.

The recognition policy does:

give equal recognition to thru-hikers and section-hikers,

recognize blue-blazed trails or officially required roadwalks as viable substitutes for the official, white-blazed route in the event of an emergency, such as a flood, a forest fire, or an impending storm on an exposed, high-elevation stretch, and

operates on the honor system.

The recognition policy does not consider:

sequence, direction, speed, or whether one carries a pack.

ATC assumes that those who apply for 2,000-miler status have made honest efforts to walk the Appalachian Trail between Katahdin and Springer Mountain.

Weary

MOWGLI
02-07-2005, 10:54
The Appalachian Trail Conference officially recognizes those hikers completing the entire Trail, either in one season or in sections through the years.

“2,000-Miler” Definition
The ATC confers the designation of “2,000-Miler” on any hiker who reports he or she walked the entire length of the Appalachian Trail. We use the term “2,000-Miler” as a matter of tradition and convenience—that's the original length of the Trail, and changing the designation each time the length changes would be impractical.

The recognition policy does:

give equal recognition to thru-hikers and section-hikers,

recognize blue-blazed trails or officially required roadwalks as viable substitutes for the official, white-blazed route in the event of an emergency, such as a flood, a forest fire, or an impending storm on an exposed, high-elevation stretch, and

operates on the honor system.

The recognition policy does not consider:

sequence, direction, speed, or whether one carries a pack.

ATC assumes that those who apply for 2,000-miler status have made honest efforts to walk the Appalachian Trail between Katahdin and Springer Mountain.

Weary

It's that last sentence that causes all the problems for so many folks.

SGT Rock
02-07-2005, 10:55
I'll just make my own patch :D

SGT Rock's GAME 2009

Stop Sniveling, and Start Hiking.

TJ aka Teej
02-07-2005, 10:57
Time + poor memory + bad feelings = distortion of facts.

I does make a colorful story, however.
Rick, I never would have thought you'd allow your poor memory and bad feelings to knowingly distort the facts.

I posted:"Some years back Wingy proposed "Avery Monitors" that would be posted up and down the Trail to verify the authenticity of Thruhike claims. There was supposed to be a banquet (hosted by Himself) after the hiking season to hand out awards. The only thing that came of it was general ridicule of the idea, and several parody proposals that included barcode tattoos, tracking chip implants, fingerprint reading white blazes, and parapackers hiding in the trees.
I think the ATC is handling this just fine."
You posted: "Not true."

Please share with us what you remember about Wingy's "Avery Society" proposal.

Papa Razzi
02-07-2005, 11:02
I for one like the idea of a trail passport. Not for verification purposes - I view that as silly and unnecessary. But I think that a unique souveneir stamp for each shelter would be pretty nifty. It'll never happen, of course, but I find the thought interesting nonetheless.

MOWGLI
02-07-2005, 11:04
Rick, I never would have thought you'd allow your poor memory and bad feelings to knowingly distort the facts.



Please share with us what you remember about Wingy's "Avery Society" proposal.

TJ, when I read your characterization of the Avery Society, I thought it was off too. When you use the word "monitors" it suggests that folks would be sitting in tree stands or hiding behind trees verifying people are actually hiking the trail. I know some good folks who signed up for the Society, but alas, like so many of WF's ideas - it went nowhere.

MOWGLI
02-07-2005, 11:07
It'll never happen, of course, but I find the thought interesting nonetheless.

Never say "never".

weary
02-07-2005, 11:13
Right now I think the ATC is a little inconsistant. First they say they aren't going to define the term thru-hike, but that they have a definition for a 2000 miler. Then they use the term thru-hike liberally in their literature and even ask you to fill out the 2000 miler application when you finish your thru-hike.

I would think that the ATC would want to know how many people hike between Springer and Katahdin, regardless whether they were white blazing purists, blue blazers, yellow blazers or just hiked it and didn't care what color someone else thought they were suppose to be.
I don't see any inconsistency. Anyone who walks the entire trail gets a 2000-miler patch, whether one does it in one season (a thru hike) or over the years.

I'm not sure how useful recording those who drive between Springer and Katahdin (yellow blazers) would be. The useful statistic would be how many people walk on the Appalachian Trail each year. But there is no way to make that count. It will always be just an educated guess.

I think a registration system for long distance section hikers might provide some useful information, assuming that most would sign up, which is doubtful in my mind. I know of several thru hikers who never bothered to register.

But I also agree with Rick that the ATC should get out of the registration business.

But if ATC stays in the registration business, I think the rules should be modified. Some blue blazed side trails are short cuts. Most, however, were built by trail maintaining clubs to augment the hiker experience.

Hikers who take the loop trails to the bottom of Dunn Notch Falls or around Gulf Hagas in Maine should not be disqualified from a 2000 miler patch for missing white blazes.

Weary

Youngblood
02-07-2005, 11:30
Weary,

Thanks, I've seen that before and understand what it says. But I don't think of that as a detailed list of rules that would answer all the various situations that occur. I think it basically says to make an honest effort to hike the AT and to use common sense to avoid needless injuries when conditions warrant such action. That's simple enough and should be the end of the subject.

But some folks that post on this site take it further than that. For instance, some folks think you can't use a different blue blaze trail to exit a shelter area than the one you entered the shelter area from because that would mean you missed the white blazed AT that lies between those two blue blazed paths. Heck, I recall one of our posters even commiting that they climbed through blow downs instead of walking around them because they had to hike the entire trail, where entire means entire. I've even heard of folks that run back and forth across a busy roadway because they were hiking nobo and hitched into/out of a town to the east of the trail. Now while this may seem amusing, there are folks who want to discount other folks hikes if they don't follow at least some of these same rules. I would be interested in seeing these rules that some folks insist on applying to others folks hikes written down in detail in a consise, understandable form. As it is now, it seems like these rules are somewhat pulled out of thin air to suckerpunch someone and tell them that they didn't really do a thru-hikers if they didn't hike it in such and such way... I'd like to see a list of these rules.

Youngblood

rickb
02-07-2005, 11:44
Weary, I know what you mean.

After much thought, I have come to the conclusion that the ATC got thier definition of the Trail wrong. It was Benton MacKaye himself that said:

"The Appalachian Trail is a wilderness strip; it could be very wide–several miles wide–if possible. "

Perhaps the ATC's 2,000 Miler definition (in some small degree) does help define the trail too much as treadway, and not enough as a corridor.

Benton MacKaye didn't want that, and I susspect that those who are fighting so hard to protect wildness around the Trail don't either.

Just another good reason to abandon the formal 2000-Miler Award, IMHO.

Rick B

NECKBONE
02-07-2005, 11:45
many years ago there were quite a few of us who did not sign any registers. signning a register was not the "cool" thing to do. we thought of signning a register kind of like conforming to the establishment. Neckbone

Footslogger
02-07-2005, 11:47
I'll just make my own patch :D

SGT Rock's GAME 2009

Stop Sniveling, and Start Hiking.=========================================
Let me see your design when you get it done Rock ...I might order one :D

'Slogger
AT 2003

The Old Fhart
02-07-2005, 11:58
I have heard of thru hikers getting their cards punched but I always though it was a euphemism. :D

Footslogger
02-07-2005, 12:05
With the actual mileage changing from year to year the whole "2000 Miler" thing is a bit misleading anyway. Patches are cool ...I've accumulated a decent collection of them over the years. But that's not the reason I (and many others do neat things anyway.

In the end I would have been just as satisfied buying a patch that said I had hiked the AT from end to end. That might put to rest the war of words about thru-hiking and section hiking.

Ironically, the current certificate sent out by the ATC simply recognizes a hiker for having hiked the AT from end to end. A patch that coincides with that recognition would be pleny in my opinion.

'Slogger
AT 2003

rickb
02-07-2005, 12:10
Patches are cool?

OK, but you have to admit that today's 2,000 Miler patch with the feet is butt ugly.

Rick B

Footslogger
02-07-2005, 12:12
Patches are cool?

OK, but you have to admit that today's 2,000 Miler patch with the feet is butt ugly.

Rick B===================================
Cool might be stretching it a bit ...and yes, the current 2000 miler patch could use a face lift.

'Slogger

rickb
02-07-2005, 12:18
I go for refrigerator magnets of the National Parks. Now they are cool ;-)

MOWGLI
02-07-2005, 12:22
I go for refrigerator magnets of the National Parks. Now they are cool ;-)

Rick:

We all understand that's it's the refrigerator part that you really like, isn't it?

Footslogger
02-07-2005, 12:25
I go for refrigerator magnets of the National Parks. Now they are cool ;-)==========================
Tough to stitch those puppies onto a backpack though, as it the practice by some hikers.

'Slogger

BlackCloud
02-07-2005, 12:33
Well, one thing that might be nice, is something similar to the National Park Service Passport. As you visited different places along the trail, you could hand stamp your passport. The stamps would indicate the location (ex: Walasi-Yi, NOC or Fontana Dam) and provide the date you were there. Individual stamps would have photos from different places along the trail.

It wouldn't be for tracking the validity of a thru-hike, as that would be an impossible task. It would simply serve as a keepsake. I really like my NPS Passport. Anyone else familiar with that?262 NPS sites down, about 140 more to go. When looking @ the cancellation stamp, I can remember several seemingly irrelevant & unimportant elements of that day by thinking back @ the moment of stamping.

Although it looks stupid on its face, it's absolutelty excellent in execution...

rickb
02-07-2005, 12:36
"I for one like the idea of a trail passport. Not for verification purposes - I view that as silly and unnecessary. But I think that a unique souveneir stamp for each shelter would be pretty nifty. It'll never happen, of course, but I find the thought interesting nonetheless."

I sort of agree.

A couple days ago, I found the shelter page on Whiteblaze, and had fun trying to remember some of the places I visited by looking at the photos. It wasn't so easy, but a few shots brought back some great memories.

WIth all the digital photo editting stuff available, I think it would be real cool to take shots of every shelter/hostel you would visit along the way, and perhaps put them alll on one picture for the wall, in a collage, or such.

Anyway, I like the idea of memorializing one's visit to shelters and since it can't be done with a stamp, perhaps there is another way.

Rick B

ARambler
02-07-2005, 12:57
I have punched thousands of orienteering punch card boxes. Hundreds in Laramie, WY alone. No it would not add anything to a 2000 mile hike. It is really easy to drink water at a punching station and forget to punch. Note, the punching stations in orienteering are called controls, not check points. This somewhat minor distinction is because orienteers are encouraged to choose different routes between the controls, i.e. blue blazing and cutting switchbacks is encouraged.

Orienteering is beginning to convert from punch boxes to electronic chips that also record the time between points. Generally, speed is not an big issue for thru-hikers, although many of us calculate the overall mi/day average for the trail (and in my case, promptly forget the number).

This brings up an off topic question:
What is the average halfway point on the trail, by time? In Harpers Ferry, I thought I was speeding up, and was probably already half way through my hike. Actually, ignoring zero days, my half way point was The Iron Masters Mansion in PGF, within a mile of the 2004 half way point. Counting zero days, my half way point was Duncannon, PA

ARambler

SGT Rock
02-07-2005, 12:59
Here is your patch:

http://hikinghq.net/images/whiteblaze/patch.gif

Footslogger
02-07-2005, 13:02
Here is your patch:

http://hikinghq.net/images/whiteblaze/patch.gif
Can't go there Rock ...never made 1st Sgt. You'd have to knock off a few stripes on mine.

'Slogger

Rain Man
02-07-2005, 13:53
.... because orienteers are encouraged to choose different routes between the controls, ... and cutting switchbacks is encouraged.

Really???? And what does "orienteering" think of Leave No Trace???

:confused:
Rain Man

.

Chantilly Lace
02-07-2005, 13:56
As a trail maintainer I say nix the idea of a punch card orienteering thing! It's enough for we volunteers to keep the trails clear of blow-downs, overgrown brush and blazing. We help move/repair/rebuild the shelters and ditto with the privies. We clean up and carry out the trash of sloppy hikers and replace the shelters' registers. We certainly don't need the added nonsense of little stamp thingys!!! Who will keep track of them and replace them as they are bound to end up stolen, broken or gnawed on by curious rodents. GEEZ! GIVE US A BREAK!

That's just my two cents.

Pokemom

bulldog49
02-07-2005, 15:10
When I do my thru-hike, I will do it for my own personal satisfaction, not to see my name on a list or to own a patch. If someone has self-esteem issues and needs to lie about doing a thru-hike, who cares? Some folks just take themselves way to seriously, feeling the need to have others validate their accomplishments. I've been in competitive sports for most of my life, the thing that drew me to backpacking relatively late in life was the lack of competition with others, but it was still a way for me to be active and push myself.

ARambler
02-07-2005, 15:12
Really???? And what does "orienteering" think of Leave No Trace???

:confused:
Rain Man

.
Good Point, I didn't explain well. Environmentally sensitive courses are very important in orienteering. However, the responsibility is on the course setter, not the person with the punch card. Course setters can and do prevent orienteers from creating erosion by cutting switchbacks by 1) moving the courses away from this area, 2) adding a control that makes people stay on the trail, e.g. at the bend of the switchback, or 3) making the area between the trails out of bounds. The same principle applys to sensitive/rare vegetation, like orchids, and some unsafe safe areas like junk piles with a lot of hidden broken glass. (Obvious safety issues like 50 ft cliffs are the orienteer's responsibility for avoiding.) A few parks prohibit any off trail usage during bird mating season in the spring. Just Saturday, my local club reworded our environmental statement to make it clearer that the major responsibility for environmentally friendly courses rests with the course setter.

The point I was trying to make was that at the advanced level, in orienteering there is no required route which would be the equivalent to a white blazed route. Even when most orienteers go straight through the woods on a compass bearing, most will deviate some and have to correct their path when they see features part way along their route. The divergence of routes is one thing that helps orienteering from having very low environmental impact.
ARambler

Mags
02-07-2005, 15:29
I can verify my hike by the sunsets I've seen, the ponds I've had lunch at, the sound of the streams at night and the people I've met in my journey.

Anything else is just gravy...


Mags

Mags
02-07-2005, 15:36
Another thought: The ATC in truth does not care about the whole "purity" debate. More than a few people wrote the ATC and said "I took the blue blazed trail at XYZ junction" after their thru-hike and rec'd the 2000 miler certificate.

Interesting dichotomy of Western vs. Eastern hiking trail organizations. The GMC is very strict about the process about giving you an "End to Ender" certificate/patch. They want a detailed account of your hike, the dates hiked, etc.

When I wrote in to the Colorado Trail Foundation did not even write an account of my hike. Just sent a thankyou note and and a copy of my slideshow. They sent back a certificate of completion and a feedback form for trail conditions. (Also a sign-up sheet for trail work, too. Just signed up for a weekend).


Anyway, just hike how you want and enjoy it. Worry about patches, certificates, etc. after the hike.

weary
02-07-2005, 16:04
Weary,

Thanks, I've seen that before and understand what it says. But I don't think of that as a detailed list of rules that would answer all the various situations that occur. I think it basically says to make an honest effort to hike the AT and to use common sense to avoid needless injuries when conditions warrant such action. That's simple enough and should be the end of the subject.

But some folks that post on this site take it further than that. For instance, some folks think you can't use a different blue blaze trail to exit a shelter area than the one you entered the shelter area from because that would mean you missed the white blazed AT that lies between those two blue blazed paths. Heck, I recall one of our posters even commiting that they climbed through blow downs instead of walking around them because they had to hike the entire trail, where entire means entire. I've even heard of folks that run back and forth across a busy roadway because they were hiking nobo and hitched into/out of a town to the east of the trail. Now while this may seem amusing, there are folks who want to discount other folks hikes if they don't follow at least some of these same rules. I would be interested in seeing these rules that some folks insist on applying to others folks hikes written down in detail in a consise, understandable form. As it is now, it seems like these rules are somewhat pulled out of thin air to suckerpunch someone and tell them that they didn't really do a thru-hikers if they didn't hike it in such and such way... I'd like to see a list of these rules.

Youngblood
I had written about the trail and been a maintainer for years, but when I started at Springer in April of 1993 I hadn't really given much thought to the kind of thru hike I wanted. Nor for that matter did I know that there was even a debate about such things.

My first clue came as we left Mountain Mama's at the north end of the Smokies. When the hostel owner dropped us back to the trail a mile north of where we had gotten off Shoeless Mare demanded to be taken back.

Then some kids from Israel made some crack about how I got to the shelter ahead of them, but I hadn't passed them on the trail. Well I had been taking all the loop trails to scenic overlooks and diagonal paths when available into and out of towns. It had never occurred to me until then that this was somehow a NO NO in the minds of some.

Finally a pickup that carried a bunch of us out of a trail town turned up a road that was part of the trail to turn around away from the busy highway. Five of us just kept walking one guy, Silver city, maybe, I'm not much for names, walked back to the highway to avoid missing a white blaze.

Ironically, he had been turned away from Rusty's because Rusty didn't think he looked like a thru hiker!

By that time it was way to late for me to become a purist, even had I wanted to.

I sense I did more of the trail than many people in 1993, but 10 days off to allow a pinched nerve to recover forced me to bypass southern New England if I still hoped to climb Katahdin before snow.

I'd hiked Maine several times previously, but I still wanted to end my six months on Katahdin anyway. I've since done the major sections I missed, but somehow after all the debates on this and other forums a patch no longer strikes me as important.

Weary

rickb
02-07-2005, 16:05
"Another thought: The ATC in truth does not care about the whole "purity" debate. More than a few people wrote the ATC and said "I took the blue blazed trail at XYZ junction" after their thru-hike and rec'd the 2000 miler certificate."

Earl Shaffer did much the same when he wrote the ATC to tell them he didn't take the official trail in the Whites because his maps were mailed late.

One yellow blazer was reported to have been forthright with the ATC only to recieve a certificate and encouragement to go back and make up the section later. I'm not sure that happens all the time ;-).

"Anyway, just hike how you want and enjoy it. Worry about patches, certificates, etc. after the hike." says the guy smart enough to move to Colorado.

I can't agree there. Best not to be taken by surprise by the form you will be handed in Baxter State Park-- the one that actually goes over what Weary wrote and has a place for your signature.

Some people who have yellow blazed a score of miles would feel uncomfortable with it. Not many, but some. ;-)

PYOP

Rick

weary
02-07-2005, 16:14
"Another thought: The ATC in truth does not care about the whole "purity" debate. More than a few people wrote the ATC and said "I took the blue blazed trail at XYZ junction" after their thru-hike and rec'd the 2000 miler certificate."

Earl Shaffer did much the same when he wrote the ATC to tell them he didn't take the official trail in the Whites because his maps were mailed late.

One yellow blazer was reported to have been forthright with the ATC only to recieve a certificate and encouragement to go back and make up the section later. I'm not sure that happens all the time ;-).

"Anyway, just hike how you want and enjoy it. Worry about patches, certificates, etc. after the hike." says the guy smart enough to move to Colorado.

I can't agree there. Best not to be taken by surprise by the form you will be handed in Baxter State Park-- the one that actually goes over what Weary wrote and has a place for your signature.

Some people who have yellow blazed a score of miles would feel uncomfortable with it. Not many, but some. ;-)

PYOP

Rick

Once while at Shaws in Monson a hiker insisted on calling Harpers Ferry to ask if would be alright if he just walked up Route 15 to the trail head, or should he go back and do the Monson bypass. ATC told him they didn't much care.

My recommendation to people who care about such things is to tell them to tell the conference exactly how they hiked. It's my suspicion that regardless of what they say, the patch will be sent out in the next mail. Under my plan one can be completely honest and still get a patch -- if a patch is part of your dreams.

Weary

Mags
02-07-2005, 17:10
" "Anyway, just hike how you want and enjoy it. Worry about patches, certificates, etc. after the hike." says the guy smart enough to move to Colorado.

I can't agree there. Best not to be taken by surprise by the form you will be handed in Baxter State Park-- the one that actually goes over what Weary wrote and has a place for your signature.



my point is that it is best to enjoy your hike first (as opposed to HITCH-hiking aka Yellow Blazing) :) and worry about certificates as a much less important secondary reason. Really, just enjoy the hike. If you really want a badge, just buy one. It's easy.

Nothing wrong with patches and such, have some on my day pack as a "fraternity" symbol of sorts. Struck up more than few conversations because of the badges. But my motivation for the trails was not the patches and certificates...tis all.



(As for being smart to move to Colorado. What can I say? Love it out here!)

Footslogger
02-07-2005, 17:43
(As for being smart to move to Colorado. What can I say? Love it out here!)=====================================
Hey Mags ...go easy on selling how great it is out here. They're liable to all forget about patches and move out west.

'Slogger

SGT Rock
02-07-2005, 17:56
How about this patch then?

http://hikinghq.net/images/whiteblaze/patch2.gif

hikerjohnd
02-07-2005, 17:58
How about this patch then?

http://hikinghq.net/images/whiteblaze/patch2.gif
That's pretty neat!

Mags
02-07-2005, 18:05
=====================================
Hey Mags ...go easy on selling how great it is out here. They're liable to all forget about patches and move out west.

'Slogger

Er..yes. Don't move out here! The air is too thin. No ocean. Not enough trees.

Bad! Bad! Don't move!

TJ aka Teej
02-07-2005, 18:46
TJ, when I read your characterization of the Avery Society, I thought it was off too.
As suggested, I probably mis-remembered some. So I searched for an ATML archive, found none, and checked the at-l's archive. I remembered it pretty much correctly, with the exception that he wanted post-hike verification by his group, not during-hike monitoring.

Wingy's announcement was posted to the at-l in March, '01:

"I have read the account in the newest Appalachian Trailway News ("Board won't
referee 'First Thru-Hiker' debate", March/April, p.7-8) and appluad the ATC
Board of Managers for making official what everyone has known for some time,
namely:

1. That ATC 2000-Miler recognition system today has no real meaning with
respect to the 2000-Miler traditions as instituted by the early ATC
leadership.

2. That the 2000 Miler recognition system and tradition are something that
have very low priority among the current ATC priorities, and that ATC is not
interested in investing the time or effort needed to maintain a credible
recognition system.

3. That, in the case of thru-hiking, ATC does not have any real expertise or
authority for interjecting itself into what is essentially a thru-hiker
matter.

I have been holding back on going ahead with The Avery Society as a vehicle
for developing a credible 2000-Miler recognition process, waiting for ATC to
make its move in this whole matter, all along hoping that ATC would revert
back to its earlier traditions. Now that the Board has indicated in the
strongest terms that it has no wish to get involved, I feel free to go ahead
with the formal organization of The Avery Society for recognizing those who
have hiked the entire Appalachian Trail, and to recognize Earl Shaffer as the
first thru-hiker.

Again, I applaud the ATC Board of Managers for looking at this matter and
admitting that it was not equipped to assume any meaningful role, and, by
doing so, to clear the way for those who care about the 2000-Miler tradition
and thru-hiking traditions to begin the process of restoring both as credible
traditions for which all members of the A.T. community, whether or not they
are thru-hikers or 2000 Milers, can feel a sense of confidence and pride.

Announcements about the process of formalization and organization of The
Avery Society will be forthcoming later this year now that the way has been
opened by ATC's statement that it will not play a role."

(I believe that the overwhealming negative response, including much questioning about his personal honesty and the validity of his own hikes, was the reason he dropped this scheme.)
-------
This was one typical response from the at-l:

> The ATC doesn't verify through hikes anymore, they used to require a
> 'report'
> decades ago. Wingfoot is misleading his readers about what was
> printed in the
> current ATN. I doubt that any Trailplace ATC members (if there are
> any) will
> call him on it though. His Avery Society will be 'better' at
> acknowleging
> thruhikes? How? It all comes down to taking someone's word, doesn't
> it?
> "Avery Society," eh? Avery was the original chairman of the ATC,
> elected
> seven terms. Avery never 'thruhiked', although he was the first to
> walk every
> step of the AT. Such irony in having his name connected to an
> anti-ATC
> thruhiking award! I wonder what Myron Avery's heirs think about
> having his
> name hijacked by a website owner in Hot Springs? I find it revolting
> that Dan Bruce's name might become attached to Myron Avery's.

More on the Trail Community's thoughts (albeit mostly negative) regarding Dan Bruce and his Avery Society: http://www.backcountry.net/arch

TJ aka Teej
02-07-2005, 19:05
Best not to be taken by surprise by the form you will be handed in Baxter State Park-- the one that actually goes over what Weary wrote and has a place for your signature.


The head Ranger at Katahdin Stream Campground tells me that only 2/3s of the finishing GAMErs take the ATC form when it's offered it to them. I think that says a lot about the honesty of today's A.T. hiker. This year just under 500 nobos made it to Katahdin by mid October, exactly 488 nobos took the Kennebec Ferry, and yet only 337 nobos have reported in to the ATC. I think the claim that today's hikers are less honest than those of past years is a bogus one.

Jack Tarlin
02-07-2005, 19:08
The ATC lacks the time, energy, manpower, and interest, in attempting to actually verify people's claims in regards to their hiking of the entire Trail, and regardless of any policy changes on their part, things will remain the way they've always been:

*Some folks will hike the whole Trail and will report in that the have done so.

*Some folks will not hike the whole Trail, but will report in nevertheless that
they did.

*Some folks will not hike the whole Trail, but will come up with interesting
explanations and rationalizations on why their hike should nevertheless count
as a thru-hike, and will report in for a completion certificate. Years later,
they will still passionately claim that they've thru-hiked, because in their
own minds, they're convinced that they did.

*Some folks will hike the whole thing and never bother to report in.

*Some folks will not hike the whole thing and not bother to report in, either
out of honesty, or because they genuinely don't care.

This is the way it's always been.

If it's important enough to get "formal" recognition---which, in the end, is all that the ATC's certificate, patch, and public announcement of your name really means---if this is importnat to you, then by all means report in. If it's not important, don't. But people should realize that this is done on the honor system, and people should act accordingly.

However, as far as putting in some sort of monitoring or "sign-in" apparatus on various points of the Trail, I think is this a useless waste of time and energy.

People whose goal it is to hike the entire A.T. will find a way to do so.

People whose goals are different will always find a way to claim that they did, if this is claim or recognition is something that's important to them.

The ATC long ago decided that they have more important things to do than ensure that people are being honest with their completion claims: Truly, they don't care, and have far more important things to worry about.

I wholeheartedly agree with them.

rickb
02-07-2005, 20:09
Sgt Rock,

Loved your patch, but I am concerned about the etymology of "No Sniveling".

I always thought of that as your family motto. I have checked myself from coopting those most poetic of words into my daily conversation on countless occasions. More out of respect than fear.

How cool would it be to actually be able to wear a No Sniveling AT Patch!!!!

Rick B

TJ-- Interesting post comparing numbers. Your point is well made.

SGT Rock
02-07-2005, 20:20
Rick B

If someone is sniveling, tell them to stop, it is all cool :D

Tenacious Tanasi
02-07-2005, 20:34
Hmmm... This idea of a trail passport, while fascinating seems like it would only add more work for already stretched-thin maintainers and volunteers for the AT. Not sure how that could be accomplished.

What sort of device would you have to stamp with? Hole punch, stamper...what? Just looks like it would be something else out there for dishonest folks to tear up and for all of us to waste funds on that could be better used for keeping the trail, shelters, etc in much better shape and litter free.

While I think it's a kewl concept to help memorialize our hikes, I just don't see how it can be adequately accomplished. I myself will stick with my journals and pics that I take on the way through.

SGT Rock
02-07-2005, 20:38
How about this: write a journal and take pictures. Collect some cool stuff from the trail like a wooden spoon from the "Half Gallon Challenge", the label off a trail magic beer signed by the trail angel, etc. Get all that together when you get home and go to Hobby Lobby and put together a killer scrap book to put on your coffee table at home so you can share it with visitors forever. Better than a passport IMHO.

weary
02-07-2005, 20:38
Hmmm... This idea of a trail passport, while fascinating seems like it would only add more work for already stretched-thin maintainers and volunteers for the AT. Not sure how that could be accomplished.

What sort of device would you have to stamp with? Hole punch, stamper...what? Just looks like it would be something else out there for dishonest folks to tear up and for all of us to waste funds on that could be better used for keeping the trail, shelters, etc in much better shape and litter free.

While I think it's a kewl concept to help memorialize our hikes, I just don't see how it can be adequately accomplished. I myself will stick with my journals and pics that I take on the way through.
Especially, since any such devices would simply further degrade the sense of wilderness that many of us seek on the trail.

Weary

Tenacious Tanasi
02-07-2005, 20:59
Especially, since any such devices would simply further degrade the sense of wilderness that many of us seek on the trail.

Weary

I'm with ya, Weary. Seems like civilization encroaches on the trail quite enough as it is.

Peaks
02-07-2005, 21:12
Good Point, I didn't explain well. Environmentally sensitive courses are very important in orienteering. However, the responsibility is on the course setter, not the person with the punch card. Course setters can and do prevent orienteers from creating erosion by cutting switchbacks by 1) moving the courses away from this area, 2) adding a control that makes people stay on the trail, e.g. at the bend of the switchback, or 3) making the area between the trails out of bounds. The same principle applys to sensitive/rare vegetation, like orchids, and some unsafe safe areas like junk piles with a lot of hidden broken glass. (Obvious safety issues like 50 ft cliffs are the orienteer's responsibility for avoiding.) A few parks prohibit any off trail usage during bird mating season in the spring. Just Saturday, my local club reworded our environmental statement to make it clearer that the major responsibility for environmentally friendly courses rests with the course setter.

The point I was trying to make was that at the advanced level, in orienteering there is no required route which would be the equivalent to a white blazed route. Even when most orienteers go straight through the woods on a compass bearing, most will deviate some and have to correct their path when they see features part way along their route. The divergence of routes is one thing that helps orienteering from having very low environmental impact.
ARambler


I'd say that orienteering is very much LNT. Controls are put at different locations every time. Meets are seldom held at the same location more than once a year. Advanced courses go off trail, so an individual's route from one control to the next is usually different than others. Thinking about it, orienteering is probably the ultimate LNT.

saimyoji
02-07-2005, 21:18
In my many travels around the world I have seen many different types of this: stamping a book, stamping coins, punching cards, buying a patch, receiving a little card...etc. The one connection they all share is you paying a small fee for the momento. Let's try to avoid this. That having been said:

Perhaps this kind of "stamping" or souvenir type memorabilia idea would be better served if based in local establishments at appropriate stops along the trail. This would preserve the wildness experience in shelters that people crave, it would allow protection of the "stamping machine", so as not to be stolen or damaged, it would provide people with the opportunity to get "stamped" along the way, and it would not have to cost the proprietor a dime, just so long as they were willing to have it on their premises. The initial cost to build/install should probably come from the hiking community, not the shop owners.

Personally, I can't imagine coming off the trail just to get a stamp; but there are some places that nearly everyone stops, aren't there? Y'all have more knowledge than I about good places for this "stamper."

If you are into this, great, but its probably better not to shove it in the face of people who dont want it by having it in a shelter. :-?

MOWGLI
02-07-2005, 21:27
Hmmm... This idea of a trail passport, while fascinating seems like it would only add more work for already stretched-thin maintainers and volunteers for the AT. Not sure how that could be accomplished.



Well, I brought up this notion, and just to clarify, I was not advocating involving volunteers or shelters in any way. Like the NPS Passport where you find the stamp and ink pad in the book store at the various National Parks, you could have an AT passport at trail businesses, park offices, and similar places where you could learn about the trail.

It was just a wacky response to the original post in this thread.

cutman11
02-07-2005, 21:53
How about this idea, which is what I intend to do when I finish in Maine:

1. report in, and get the 2000 miler certificate and patch
2. hitch to the nearest good Tattoo artist and have them tattoo the 2000miler patch onto my right shoulder. That way nobody can take it away lol.

Perhaps they should have to do #2 to get #1. Bet a lot of the "fakers" wouldnt want to make the claim for the certificate and patch that way lol.

Tenacious Tanasi
02-07-2005, 21:58
Well, I brought up this notion, and just to clarify, I was not advocating involving volunteers or shelters in any way. Like the NPS Passport where you find the stamp and ink pad in the book store at the various National Parks, you could have an AT passport at trail businesses, park offices, and similar places where you could learn about the trail.

It was just a wacky response to the original post in this thread.

I don't see a prob with this at all if it doesn't involve putting something in shelters or on the trail. Obtaining a stamp from a central location such as inside a store isn't a bad idea at all. Only prob with that would be what if the facility is closed when the hikers come through? Would be great if there were locations all along the trail in towns where one could be assured the place would be open. Not sure what miracle would have to happend to make that occur, though. ;)

Tenacious Tanasi
02-07-2005, 22:12
How about this idea, which is what I intend to do when I finish in Maine:

1. report in, and get the 2000 miler certificate and patch
2. hitch to the nearest good Tattoo artist and have them tattoo the 2000miler patch onto my right shoulder. That way nobody can take it away lol.

Perhaps they should have to do #2 to get #1. Bet a lot of the "fakers" wouldnt want to make the claim for the certificate and patch that way lol.

Now that is a great idea! :rolleyes: But, what about folks that don't like tattoos? Hmmm... could create a prob, couldn't it.

I had thought about having bootprints tattooed around my ankles...one boot for certain milestones or places along the trail. Springer as the centerpiece on the outside of my left and Katahdin as the centerpiece on my right.

Whatchya think?

ridgewalker777
02-08-2005, 20:34
I like the idea of a "passport" as an option. The logos from memorable landmarks could be picked up at trail-friendly businesses, etc. Designs could be contributed for the stamps to fill the passport. Some sort of timing entry could be made as a record. I don't want to see competition any more than the next hiker, but something like this could jazz-up the experience. I am dead set against any form of national i.d. card (though that is what driver's licenses are becoming, or big brother government in any form. As for "what ru smoking?" Nothing. A fellow from an even more extreme part of Maine said that funny tobacco was the only way they made it thru the long winters. But I don't need it when I have a healthy diet, good books to read, and beautiful places to hike or X-C ski.

HikerHobo
02-11-2005, 13:16
Let's don't forget that we will need to charge a fee and maybe tax everyone to pay for the approved system of tracking needed to make the system work. :datz

Panama Red
02-11-2005, 14:59
my thoughts are that it is a good idea to verify a thru hike but as others are saying its easy to cheat, what if there were things in certain places to look for or pickup like a cavenger hunt. i can see it now the great at scaavenger hunt of 2005

MOWGLI
02-11-2005, 15:01
my thoughts are that it is a good idea to verify a thru hike but as others are saying its easy to cheat...

How do you "cheat" on a thru-hike, and if there is such a thing, who is actually getting "cheated"?

Just curious.

Footslogger
02-11-2005, 15:21
How do you "cheat" on a thru-hike, and if there is such a thing, who is actually getting "cheated"?

Just curious.==========================================
Great question ...cheating implies rules and rules imply structure and organization. I hiked the AT in part to get away from all that.

'Slogger
AT 2003

weary
02-11-2005, 15:37
==========================================
Great question ...cheating implies rules and rules imply structure and organization. I hiked the AT in part to get away from all that.
'Slogger
AT 2003
I've shown the slides of my walk in 1993, at least 30 times. Except on these lists, no one has ever asked if I qualified for a 2,000 miler patch, or condemned me for not doing so.

I always tell people if they really begin questioning me about the trail. Otherwise I just ignore the matter.

I don't call it cheating, but some write things that are not true when they apply for the ATC patch. I happen to think that is wrong. I know I would feel cheapened if I did so.

Nor is it really necessary. As I've said before, based on everything I know, I suspect that if one simply describes how one hikes accurately, ATC will issue the patch anyway.

Weary

Nightwalker
02-11-2005, 17:04
I like the idea of a GPS tracker chip being installed under the skin, that way the Holy Counsel of Verification can ensure you made it when they scan your chip at the end of your hike. Hopefully you don't get hit by lightning and get your chip erased.
Too easy to hoax for any really tough hiker-type redneck. Cut that sucker out of yer forearm. Then, you and your team just pass the "bag of chips" back and forth as the rest of the guys yellow-blaze and sleep in motorhomes along the way. Everybody takes turns.

When you get to Monson, sew them suckers back in, tip-toe through the 100-mile, weather-balloon up the big K, call for an air-lift down and collect your patch.

See? Simple!

:D

Nightwalker
02-12-2005, 00:24
I've shown the slides of my walk in 1993, at least 30 times. Except on these lists, no one has ever asked if I qualified for a 2,000 miler patch, or condemned me for not doing so.
(snip)
Weary
Weary,

You said that you went back and walked the parts you missed. Maybe it wasn't an "official" thru-hike (multiple years), but you finished the trail. You qualified.

Whether you chose to apply for it or not, you earned it.

MedicineMan
02-12-2005, 00:45
it seems to me that ATC should focus what time/money they have in attaining more corridor and protecting what corridor they have....leave it up to another agency to give out the crowns and jewels

TJ aka Teej
02-12-2005, 00:54
it seems to me that ATC should focus what time/money they have in attaining more corridor and protecting what corridor they have....leave it up to another agency to give out the crowns and jewels
ALDHA would be the perfect group to relieve the ATC of this chore.

Mountain Dew
02-12-2005, 01:30
Medicine Man...The ATC is focused on the important issues. That's why they give out 2,000 milers to anybody that asks for it these days. They have not the time nor ability to weed out the liars.
-----------------------------------------
How many hikers wanting the make it to Mt. K from Springer start with a thru-hike in mind ? I'm guessing 99%. Most drop out while others go on. Some that go on do so while skipping miles for various reasons. Others chose to take blue blazes for many different reasons. When all have made it to Mt. K some have done all the miles and some haven't. Big deal. HYOH ! Don't claim you have hiked a part of the trail you haven't. Be it a blue blazes or white blazes. Call a spade a spade and be able to look into the mirror with self respect.
-----------------------------
No need for another "varification" system on the A.T. That would just give the cheat..oops..liars a way to prove to you that they aren't lying. A spade is a spade is a spade is a spade...... Goodtimes.

MedicineMan
02-12-2005, 01:55
never will be able to physically, so if i ever claim it you'll know i'm blowing smoke up.
i like what sgt.rock said some months ago...paraphrasing -that respect is due anyone who walks from Ga to Me via any route.
i've blue blazed, in fact last summer i wanted to see the big rocks in SNP that the AT use to go by....no guilt at all and slept well that night!
Personally i'll leave the competitive mindset in the hospital and try to relax if i ever get back on the trail.

SGT Rock
02-12-2005, 08:04
Weary,

You said that you went back and walked the parts you missed. Maybe it wasn't an "official" thru-hike (multiple years), but you finished the trail. You qualified.

Whether you chose to apply for it or not, you earned it.

I never thought of it that way. So I can do my 2009 Thru-Hike and start at Davenport Gap and still be a thru-hiker :bse

The Old Fhart
02-12-2005, 08:56
SGT Rock-"I never thought of it that way. So I can do my 2009 Thru-Hike and start at Davenport Gap and still be a thru-hiker :bse "All the ATC cares about is if you claim you hiked the whole trail while you are still alive. Knowing you, there won't be any doubt if you apply that you will have done the trail. You might want to check with RnR to see if your supported hike fails to pass muster. :D

SGT Rock
02-12-2005, 08:59
No wait, I missed a few yards of white blazes in NC. Dang! :(

Slimer
02-12-2005, 17:01
Not a good idea.......
Its not that your "punchcard" counts.........what counts is who counts the punchcards. (heheheh)

Nightwalker
02-12-2005, 18:38
I never thought of it that way. So I can do my 2009 Thru-Hike and start at Davenport Gap and still be a thru-hiker :bse
No, dingleberry, but you'd be a 2,000 miler and qualified to go into the registry.

Big difference.

You've changed, young grasschoppa. You've learned to tweak well. You must have taken on LW as a mentor. I'm so proud. :D

wacocelt
02-13-2005, 03:14
No, dingleberry

Where, oh WHERE in the hell did that come from? I'm so flabbergasted by that statement I don't even know where to begin with the insults.

Nightwalker
02-13-2005, 21:19
Where, oh WHERE in the hell did that come from? I'm so flabbergasted by that statement I don't even know where to begin with the insults.
I could loan you a few...

:D

weary
02-13-2005, 22:07
I never thought of it that way. So I can do my 2009 Thru-Hike and start at Davenport Gap and still be a thru-hiker :bse
No but if you have "walked every mile" you can become a "2,000 miler."

I don't think anyone "officially" qualifies "thru hikers." ATC gives a patch to everyone who claims to have walked "every mile" of the trail -- or at least that used to be the rule.

If you claim to have done it in one calendar year, I have heard they mention thru hiker on the piece of paper, but I understand the patch is the same 2,000 miler patch that everyone who makes the claim gets.

Weary

MOWGLI
02-14-2005, 08:04
I never thought of it that way. So I can do my 2009 Thru-Hike and start at Davenport Gap and still be a thru-hiker :bse

Rock:

Since you have already walked the AT between Springer & Davenport Gap, I would recommend you consider hiking the Benton MacKaye Trail from Springer to Davenport, then pick up the AT at the north end of the Smokies. This past weekend the Benton MacKaye Trail Association completed construction of the last mile of new trail. All that is left is blazing. What was a 93-mile trail when I hiked it in April '03, is now a 275-mile trail that is significantly more difficult, and IMO, a much better experience than the AT. You'll find only 1 shelter on the trail. Resupply is more difficult. In other words, it's not for everybody, but for those adventurous few, you will be generously rewarded.

Youngblood
02-14-2005, 09:53
Rock:

Since you have already walked the AT between Springer & Davenport Gap, I would recommend you consider hiking the Benton MacKaye Trail from Springer to Davenport, then pick up the AT at the north end of the Smokies. This past weekend the Benton MacKaye Trail Association completed construction of the last mile of new trail. All that is left is blazing. What was a 93-mile trail when I hiked it in April '03, is now a 275-mile trail that is significantly more difficult, and IMO, a much better experience than the AT. You'll find only 1 shelter on the trail. Resupply is more difficult. In other words, it's not for everybody, but for those adventurous few, you will be generously rewarded.
Little Bear,

I'm in the middle of a nobo hike of the BMT, how will I know when I reach the end if the blazes aren't complete? :rolleyes: Do I need to hurry up or slowdown?

All kidding aside, I was on the BMT this weekend and they had a reroute(?) near Ledford Gap (south of the Brawley Mtn tower) where a new trail was cut in(?). Nothing was blocked off (neither the new trail or the old trail) but you could see the marking ribbons (no blazes) on the new trail (I new where the old trail went). I thought about which path to take for a while and decided to take the old trail and though I saw where the new trail joined the old trail again at the dirt road at Ledford Gap, again not blocked off or blazed. Obviously, they can't change re-routes and new trails over instainteously, so sometimes you just have to take your chances and figure it out as you go. But, I ran in to this type of situation on my 2000 thru-hike, missed something and spent a long day hiking lots of miles but not making much progress. :D You need to have good maps and pay attention when/if you hike on trails that aren't quite complete, or cut-over yet... it can be confusing one day and clear as bell the next. Another observation I've had is that it is has always been easier to figure out what is going on if there is more than one hiker doing the figuring... course I could be handicapped since when it is only one hiker that I am always stuck with that hiker being me.

Youngblood

SGT Rock
02-14-2005, 20:55
Rock:

Since you have already walked the AT between Springer & Davenport Gap, I would recommend you consider hiking the Benton MacKaye Trail from Springer to Davenport, then pick up the AT at the north end of the Smokies. This past weekend the Benton MacKaye Trail Association completed construction of the last mile of new trail. All that is left is blazing. What was a 93-mile trail when I hiked it in April '03, is now a 275-mile trail that is significantly more difficult, and IMO, a much better experience than the AT. You'll find only 1 shelter on the trail. Resupply is more difficult. In other words, it's not for everybody, but for those adventurous few, you will be generously rewarded.

Actually that ain't a bad idea.

steve hiker
02-14-2005, 21:40
Here's an idea to consider: As in orienteering, participants would have the option of using punch cards as you travel from section to section. Key landmarks and shelters would have punching devices. This would have partly a verification purpose :-?
Just install a chip in your butt and electronic readers at every blaze, so nobody can cheat or forget.

MOWGLI
02-14-2005, 22:50
Little Bear,



All kidding aside, I was on the BMT this weekend and they had a reroute(?) near Ledford Gap (south of the Brawley Mtn tower) where a new trail was cut in(?). Nothing was blocked off (neither the new trail or the old trail) but you could see the marking ribbons (no blazes) on the new trail (I new where the old trail went). I thought about which path to take for a while and decided to take the old trail and though I saw where the new trail joined the old trail again at the dirt road at Ledford Gap, again not blocked off or blazed. Obviously, they can't change re-routes and new trails over instainteously, so sometimes you just have to take your chances and figure it out as you go. But, I ran in to this type of situation on my 2000 thru-hike, missed something and spent a long day hiking lots of miles but not making much progress. :D You need to have good maps and pay attention when/if you hike on trails that aren't quite complete, or cut-over yet... it can be confusing one day and clear as bell the next. Another observation I've had is that it is has always been easier to figure out what is going on if there is more than one hiker doing the figuring... course I could be handicapped since when it is only one hiker that I am always stuck with that hiker being me.

Youngblood

Alot of trail clubs will save the last 20'-50' of trail construction on a relo until just before the new section of trail is opened. I'll refer this to Walt Cook and Ken Jones, the maintenance & construction crew leaders for the club. Thanks for the heads up.

Nightwalker
02-14-2005, 22:59
Just install a chip in your butt and electronic readers at every blaze, so nobody can cheat or forget.
See post #82. :D