Hiking The Whites, in November

[TakeABreak]

For those of you that have hiked the Whites Mountains in November, this one is for you. As most of you know I am 2,000 miler, and an experienced Michigander hiker. I have also, hiked extensively in the N.C. mountains in winter.

I need to know, how hard the trail (The A.T.) can be to follow and what kind of weather you have experienced.

I am looking at an early to mid-November of this year, hike through the Whites.

[Tramper Al]

I hike in the Whites quite a bit in winter (and late fall), and the conditions can vary a lot. It could be like a nice crisp fall day with some ice above treeline, to deep snow, wind, and whiteout conditions. Pay close attention to the forecast and be prepared to adjust your plans appropriately.

Certainly, you should be equipped for full on winter conditions (winter bag, tent, snowshoes, crampons, full face covering, etc.) as that may be what you'll see.

Parts of the AT route see very little thru travel that time of year, and if there has been significant snowfall, you may be breaking trail quite a bit. Less traveled sections are from Kinsman Notch to South Kinsman, between Lafayette and Galehead, and the Mahoosucs certainly.

Have fun!

[DebW]

Tramper Al is right on. You could see temperatures down to 0F and significant snow. And you might have some days in the 40s. Or it could seem like mud season if there is early snow and then a thaw.

[chomp]

Just FYI - these photos were taken in mid-november. I don't remember exactly when, but I do remember that it was before Thanksgiving. Conditions can vary wildly, but be ready for this:

http://gallery.backcountry.net/chompwinter

[TakeABreak]

Great photo's Chomp,

I pretty much get the picture everyone, now tell me this. Is the trail well enough marked that I should be able to navigate through the above treeline area, when trail is covered with snow.

When I thru hiked, through it was a warm sunny July, I remember the rocks were painted, obviously in winter time you will be able to see the paint.

I appreciate the heads up Tramper Al, DebW & Chomp. I will be carrying crampons, snow shoes and warm gear, probably a 0 degree down bag.

As I stated above my biggest concern, I think at this time is navigating the rock fields, above treeline when they are snow covered.

[rumbler]

Good Lord. I can't imagine coming off Madison northbound on the AT in those conditions.

[Tramper Al]

As I stated above my biggest concern, I think at this time is navigating the rock fields, above treeline when they are snow covered.
This is a valid concern. With even a modest amount of ice and blown snow, those painted (white afterall) blazes will be of no help to you. However, on the flat alpine meadows sections, there is generally a low rock border on either side of the trail that will help. More importantly, there are cairns placed along the trail routes above treeline specifically to aid in navigation with snow and ice cover.

This issue pertains mainly to the long stretch above treeline in the Presidentials, Pierce to Madison, but some care must be taken in following the trail off of Moosilauke, Lafayette and Guyot as well.

That said, in good weather it is pretty straightforward to navigate along the ridge, assuming some good map (and compass) skills. In bad weather, get off the ridge and below treeline. Map and compass again, plus advanced knowledge of your escape routes is key. Also, know which refuges are open (typically RMC facilities, but only some AMC huts) and which are not (typically Greenleaf, Galehead, Mizpah, Lakes, and Madison) in mid November.

Oh, and in the couple of weeks before your hike, take a look at VFTT (http://www.viewsfromthetop.com/) under Trail Conditions - New Hampshire. You will find several recent reports from AT sections and other nearby trails, to give you an idea of snow depth, ice, etc, that you might reasonably expect to find. Have your map in hand, as the reports will not mention 'AT' even when the trail described is Fishin' Jimmy, Twinway, Webster Cliff, Crawford Path, Gulfside, Wildcat Ridge, or whatever.

[Frosty]

I pretty much get the picture everyone, now tell me this. Is the trail well enough marked that I should be able to navigate through the above treeline area, when trail is covered with snow.

I appreciate the heads up Tramper Al, DebW & Chomp. I will be carrying crampons, snow shoes and warm gear, probably a 0 degree down bag.

As I stated above my biggest concern, I think at this time is navigating the rock fields, above treeline when they are snow covered.Snow is tricky and varies greatly. Hiking between Jackson and Webster a couple years ago, the snow was so deep I was in the canopy. Had to be at least 8-10 feet. No blazes of course, but the trail follows the ridge so it's pretty easy to stay on it. Most of Prezzie trails will be broken out after any weekend.

Some areas will be blown nearly snowless. Still, blazes aren't always easy to see. As long as you have visibility you can tell where the trail should go.

Besides crampons and warm gear, make sure you have goggles. You can't imagine the wind up there. When it blows hard you truly can't face it without goggles. A neoprene facemask is good to have also.

I don't think a 0* bag will cut it at all, even in November. I would give serious consideration to a -25. I know it sounds like overkill, but it is what I use. Even with that, one night in Carter Notch Hut I put a hot water Nalgene bottle in my bag down by my feet.

Defintely plan to take advantage of Lonesome Lake, Carter Notch and Zealand Huts.

Good luck, and remember that the trail from Franconia Notch to Crawford Notch is longer than you might think, and is not always easy to bail from. Know your bail-out routes in advance. Make sure the weather is good for the leg from Little Haystack to Lafayette, and over South Twin to Zealand. Bad places to get caught in bad weather.

Are you going alone?

[TakeABreak]

Well, I guess I pretty much get the picture, thanks everyone. I was wanting to do a SOBO thru-hike starting 10/15/05 at Katahdin. But I am thinking I might wait till 06 and spend this summer, next winter and the following summer doing some day and over night hikes in the whites, re-familiarizing myself with the whites. Since I have only hiked them once and that was on my thru-hike in july 4 or 5 years ago.

It is something I have been considering for awhile so waiting another year, will not hurt, seeing as how the whites were in all honestly my only real concern. As i mentioned earlier I have spent a lot of time in the outdoors, enough to know that the whites in november could end it all if I am not properly prepared.

[Tramper Al]

TaB,

I can't argue with your decision to be as prepared as possible for November in the Whites.

Most of the people who dayhike the White Mountain peaks (myself included) are well prepared and quite experienced at that sort of thing. However, most of these folks would think twice or three times about a SOBO through hike leaving Baxter Peak on Oct. 15th.

What I am trying to say is that you are facing the same sort of early weather uncertainties through the 100 Mile, Bigelows/Crockers/Saddleback, then through the Mahoosucs. In my opinion, if you can handle that sort of trip, getting geared up for a few days in the White Mountains in mid November might seem quite feasible in comparison.

The big thing about the Whites is having decent weather. If you can adjust your plans for foul weather, you may get through without too much trouble at all.

[chomp]

I basically agree with everything that Al has said. Make sure that you have good maps and that you have studdied them. There are lots of trails above treeline, so you want to know what to looks for. The cairns (rock piles) are very helpful and should be visible on most of the AT.

However, I will caution you that you might not be able to follow the AT proper, so if you are a purist, this could be a problem. Two years ago, I did Pierce and Eisehhower in the winter. The AT officially goes around Ike, but most of the people out in the winter are peak baggers, so the packed out trail went OVER the peak. I actually descended to the AT and tried to take tha Crawford Path back to my car, but I lost the trail. Instead of risking getting lost, I backtracked UP over Ike and then back to Pierce that way. I imagine that you will encounter similar problems near Adams.

Another good heads up - almost no one hikes Jefferson to Washington in the winter, so that section might not be broken out. And another thing - a lot of the blazed above treeline are YELLOW, even thought you will be on the AT. So if you see yellow paint, don't panic, that doesnt mean that you are off the trail.

But, like Al said, if you are flexible and can wait for good weather, you will have a much better chance. And its not always nasty up there. Afterall, I did hike Mt Washington on Sunday in shorts and a t-shirt. (I was carrying 40 pounds of gear - just didn't happen to nead any of it).

Good luck!

[John S]

There is very good historical weather data for the Whites here (http://www.mountwashington.org/backcountry/index.php). The Archive of Backcountry Weather and Trail Conditions are particularly useful, as are the Previous Conditions at Gray Knob at the bottom of this page (http://www.randolphmountainclub.org/sheltersinfo/weatherconditions.html). Perhaps the daily highs and lows will help you to determine whether or not the trip is reasonably within your comfort zone.

[TakeABreak]

Thanks again everyone for the comments. After praying about it, reading everyones comments and everything, I feel i should one year. Winter weather has never really bothered me, I guess because I have lived in michigan most of my life and when I was living in NC, I hiked the mountains all winter in the ice storm of january of 00, just before the kickoff of 2/12/00 thru-hike. Map reading is not a problem with either and I do have an inner directional instinct that amazes most people at being able to go the right even there is no markings.

It's just after I started this thread, and starting reading the comments I got the feeling, that I should delay one year. Whenever I have gotten that feeling and ignored I was, sorry I ignored it. With that said I am going to listen to gut, and do as I said above and hike the whites a few times and get learn the escape routes, so if I amable to do a SOBO in 06. I will be fully prepared, with said, if I get to go and do somewinter hiking in the Whites next year. I will post another thread and see if any of guys up to joining me for a few days.