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Spokes
07-27-2011, 04:40
On Tuesday (July 26, 2011), the U.S. Postal Service announced it was considering closing over 3600 post offices in hopes of restoring profitability and cutting losses. Read the entire article HERE (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576467921947248738.html).

Most of the offices service rural areas. The complete list is HERE (http://about.usps.com/news/electronic-press-kits/expandedaccess/statelist.htm).

I didn't scan the entire list for ones impacting thru-hikers but noticed the Fontana Dam office is up on the chopping block.

ki0eh
07-27-2011, 07:20
For the GET north of the Potomac, locations of interest include Little Orleans, MD and Weikert, Woodward, and Nelson, PA.

Sly
07-27-2011, 09:42
The article says threatened, not necessarily closed.

Sly
07-27-2011, 09:44
I didn't scan the entire list for ones impacting thru-hikers but noticed the Fontana Dam office is up on the chopping block.

Only two from the list in the back of the Companion, Fontana Dam and Caratunk

Tennessee Viking
07-27-2011, 09:52
I see Fontana Dam NC and Whitetop VA

Blissful
07-27-2011, 10:58
Montebello, VA is on the list (near The Priest)
I loved Caratunk, that could hurt southbound, but then, no one goes southbound... :(
East Andover is on it too

No Glencliff, NH - Interesting

max patch
07-27-2011, 11:15
No Glencliff, NH - Interesting

Glencliff was on the first list of 1,200 that came out several months ago. This is an additional 3,600 ish locations. I don't know the status of Glencliff.

DLANOIE
07-27-2011, 11:36
I didnt use the PO in E Andover or Caratunk during my SOBO. Just sayin.

Sly
07-27-2011, 11:41
Montebello, VA is on the list (near The Priest)


Thanks Blissful, missed that one. (probably others)

Attached is a list of PO's along the trail listed in the Companion

Blissful
07-27-2011, 13:36
I didnt use the PO in E Andover or Caratunk during my SOBO. Just sayin.

I think Caratunk is an important one as except for a tiny convenience store about four miles away (that didn't have hardly anything there when I visited) it has nothing else. At least Andover has a pretty good convenience store.

Jeff
07-27-2011, 13:40
And they are so nice to hikers at the Caratunk PO !!!!!

Sly
07-27-2011, 14:33
I didnt use the PO in E Andover .

E Andover is 57 miles from Andover

Blissful
07-27-2011, 15:04
And they are so nice to hikers at the Caratunk PO !!!!!

Yes, yes and triple yes. The lady there went out of her way to help a hiker mail back his heavy hiking boots. They had a courtesy phone and a hiker box.

DLANOIE
07-27-2011, 16:11
E Andover is 57 miles from Andover

OK, I will bite, how do you figure???:confused:

Sly
07-27-2011, 16:13
OK, I will bite, how do you figure???:confused:

I let Mapquest do the figuring. East Andover (04226) and Andover (04216), the AT resupply town, are two different towns with two different zip codes.

DLANOIE
07-27-2011, 16:19
I let Mapquest do the figuring. East Andover (04226) and Andover (04216), the AT resupply town, are two different towns with two different zip codes.

Well they are two different towns with two different zip codes, but how do you figure they are 57 miles apart?:)

Sly
07-27-2011, 16:22
Well they are two different towns with two different zip codes, but how do you figure they are 57 miles apart?:)

A- Andover trail town, B- East Andover

13325

http://classic.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Andover&1s=ME&1z=04216&1y=US&1l=44.912&1g=-70.8681&1v=ZIP&2c=East+Andover&2s=ME&2z=04226&2y=US&2l=44.6494&2g=-70.7306&2v=ZIP

DLANOIE
07-27-2011, 16:32
Well I'll be a monkeys uncle!

Never shoulda doubted ya Sly.

Chubbs4U
07-27-2011, 23:13
Well its a shame that this could hurt hiking but the postal service has been running in the red for years. No idea how you can run in the red that high for that long.

HiKen2011
07-27-2011, 23:16
Well its a shame that this could hurt hiking but the postal service has been running in the red for years. No idea how you can run in the red that high for that long.

An independant business would be bankrupt, just saying

Chubbs4U
07-27-2011, 23:31
Hiken- I completely agree. i cant run in the red with my business and pretty sure most small businesses cant.

Sierra Echo
07-27-2011, 23:50
Well its a shame that this could hurt hiking but the postal service has been running in the red for years. No idea how you can run in the red that high for that long.

Well if you are one of those people who pays your bills on line then you can honestly say that part of this is your fault. That would be more manly then whining about how this could hurt hikers.

Trailbender
07-28-2011, 02:22
Well if you are one of those people who pays your bills on line then you can honestly say that part of this is your fault. That would be more manly then whining about how this could hurt hikers.

Well, I am not going to keep doing something that is obsolete and spending money at the same time. Paying bills online is more efficient, and better.

I was talking to a friend earlier about this exact post. Letters by mail, are going the way of the pay phone. As computers get better and cheaper, more people own them. I remember I helped many times with my dad building computers in the early and mid 90's. They were really expensive. I built a decent gaming PC for $1200. If you don't play videogames, you can get a good comp for probably $500 or a lot less nowadays. I gotta have a videocard, more RAM, and a more powerful power supply for gaming, so the cost goes up.

Sierra Echo
07-28-2011, 07:07
Well, I am not going to keep doing something that is obsolete and spending money at the same time. Paying bills online is more efficient, and better.

I was talking to a friend earlier about this exact post. Letters by mail, are going the way of the pay phone. As computers get better and cheaper, more people own them. I remember I helped many times with my dad building computers in the early and mid 90's. They were really expensive. I built a decent gaming PC for $1200. If you don't play videogames, you can get a good comp for probably $500 or a lot less nowadays. I gotta have a videocard, more RAM, and a more powerful power supply for gaming, so the cost goes up.

Well if you don't want to support an institution then you have NO right to whine when its gone. I have NO respect for that.

4shot
07-28-2011, 07:51
Yes, yes and triple yes. The lady there went out of her way to help a hiker mail back his heavy hiking boots. They had a courtesy phone and a hiker box.

I was actually impresses with the courtesy and service I received at all post offices along the way. Had a bit of a conumdrum in Waynesboro....I had lost my wallet around somewhere south of there so my wife mailed me new wallet, credit card, drilers license, etc. Identification was required to get the package but my id was inside the package. Guy finally gave me the package to open and I was able then to furnish the id. I certainly understood his dilemma as well.Prior to my hike, I hadn't been in a PO in years and I was happy with the service I received.

DavidNH
07-28-2011, 09:07
If the Glencliff post office goes.. that would hurt. That's a very important resupply point + the place where northbounders get their winter gear back.

Jeff
07-28-2011, 09:13
If the Glencliff post office goes.. that would hurt. That's a very important resupply point + the place where northbounders get their winter gear back.

Send it to Hanover, it's only 3 days south of Glencliff and the PO is right on the trail.

Fiddleback
07-28-2011, 10:04
While the 'government' vs. 'private business' comparison is seductive, it's not a particularly good one. It's true perhaps that a business cannot forever run in the red (just where is the cutoff?). But I think we've seen over the decades that 'we' as a nation, won't tolerate a government that makes a profit. While there are examples of a couple states that have rainy day funds, most levels of government either return the money to tax payers thru tax cuts/freezes or subsidize chosen recipients or otherwise spend through the surplus.


Anyhoo, the PO has a rough row to plow and as I blow totally off topic there's this from Wikipedia;


"Declining mail volume is a symptom of the weak national economy[citation needed (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)], particularly related to the financial and housing industries, and to trends toward the use of electronic mail. In addition to the weak or contracting economy and the diversion of mail to electronic means, the pre-funding of retiree health benefits continues to have a significant impact on Postal Service finances.[17] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-16)[18] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-strategicplanning-17) First-Class mail volume (which is protected by legal monopoly) has declined 29% from 1998 to 2008, due to the increasing use of email and the World Wide Web for correspondence and business transactions.[19] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-amp-18) Lower volume means lower revenues to support the fixed commitment to deliver to every address once a day, six days a week. In response, the USPS has increased productivity each year from 2000 to 2007,[18] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-strategicplanning-17) through increased automation, route re-optimization, and facility consolidation.[19] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-amp-18) Despite these efforts, the organization saw an $8.5 billion budget shortfall in 2010." [20] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-DelOn20110220-19)"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service#Current_operations

I live in a rural area and the mail is delivered by contract carrier to a roadside mailbox a mile and a quarter away. I'm aware of the supposed 'bad business' that some think the PO reflects but I'm darn glad they operate as well as they do.

FB

Sly
07-28-2011, 10:17
If the Glencliff post office goes.. that would hurt. That's a very important resupply point + the place where northbounders get their winter gear back.


Send it to Hanover, it's only 3 days south of Glencliff and the PO is right on the trail.

PO closures doesn't necessarily mean no more delivery. The Hikers Welcome Hostel will accept packages via FedEx and UPS (maybe USPS?) and I sure will arrange to get you to Warren if you need to mail something out. It's also fairly easy to set up a mail station if you have a scale and a computer.

c/o Hikers Welcome Hostel
1396 Rt.25
Glencliff, N.H. 03238

Sly
07-28-2011, 10:28
An independant business would be bankrupt, just saying

So would a private police or fire dept. but most don't bitch and moan when about them. The PO is a service that cost taxpayer $$'s to run. Neither FedEx or UPS are about to get into the 1st class postage business, it's just not profitable to send anything cross town or cross country for $.44

mudhead
07-28-2011, 10:28
A- Andover trail town, B- East Andover

13325

http://classic.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Andover&1s=ME&1z=04216&1y=US&1l=44.912&1g=-70.8681&1v=ZIP&2c=East+Andover&2s=ME&2z=04226&2y=US&2l=44.6494&2g=-70.7306&2v=ZIP

This seems odd to me. Try a mapquest search of East Andover, ME. Google Maps, too.

I put East Andover SE of Andover on the road to Rumford.

Sly
07-28-2011, 10:39
This seems odd to me. Try a mapquest search of East Andover, ME. Google Maps, too.

I put East Andover SE of Andover on the road to Rumford.

Hmmm... Google says 2.5 miles which does make more sense. Bottom line, hikers use the Andover PO which isn't schedule for closing.13326

Ender
07-28-2011, 10:40
This seems odd to me. Try a mapquest search of East Andover, ME. Google Maps, too.

I put East Andover SE of Andover on the road to Rumford.

I did a Google Maps search and it put the two town 2.5 miles apart.

Sly
07-28-2011, 10:50
I did a Google Maps search and it put the two town 2.5 miles apart.

No wonder East Andover PO is going out of business. They're using Mapquest and adding 55 miles to deliver mail to Andover.

Ender
07-28-2011, 10:52
No wonder East Andover PO is going out of business. They're using Mapquest and adding 55 miles to deliver mail to Andover.

Ha! Brilliant. :sun

max patch
07-28-2011, 10:58
Mapquest states East Andover to Andover is 2.51 miles and 5 minutes away. I'm guessing operator error by whoever said they were 50 some miles apart.

Trailbender
07-28-2011, 11:11
Well if you don't want to support an institution then you have NO right to whine when its gone. I have NO respect for that.

Not whining, the post office should go. FedEx and UPS do a better job, cheaper.

Sly
07-28-2011, 11:38
Not whining, the post office should go. FedEx and UPS do a better job, cheaper.

In my experience the USPS has always delived, and does just as good a job as either UPS or FedEx. FedEx or UPS would never be able to compete with letters, and other materials besides packages. The same large PM envelope USPS charges $4.95 for FedEx charges $20.00

Sly
07-28-2011, 11:41
Mapquest states East Andover to Andover is 2.51 miles and 5 minutes away. I'm guessing operator error by whoever said they were 50 some miles apart.

Then you'd be guessing wrong. No operator error, just check my link or try zipcodes 04226 and 04216

http://classic.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Andover&1s=ME&1z=04216&1y=US&1l=44.912&1g=-70.8681&1v=ZIP&2c=East+Andover&2s=ME&2z=04226&2y=US&2l=44.6494&2g=-70.7306&2v=ZIP

Tuckahoe
07-28-2011, 12:05
Not whining, the post office should go. FedEx and UPS do a better job, cheaper.

I despise UPS and Fed Ex and yes I am a big fan of the Post Office.

The simple fact is that no matter what, my mail and packages when delivered by the USPS get to my door. That is not the case with companies like UPS.

I cannot tell you how many times I have waited at home for a package to be delivered on the expected delivery date. The UPS driver never came to the house, only to find that the driver claimed that they had attempted delivery and I was not home.

I have had UPS drivers pull up and jump out of their truck with the little post it notes in hand to leave on my door claiming they could not deliver because I was not home. He had no intention of even trying to drop off the package, only to be surprised by me sitting there waiting for him.

Placed an order with Campmore once. My address is 203 1/2 Apt A. Campmore shipped the package to 203 Apt A. Yeah that happens a lot and not unusual. Only UPS couldnt deliver and the driver couldnt be troubled to knock on my door to confirm even though he stood right there at my door . Instead they mailed a post card to the incorrect address trying to let me know they had a package they couldnt deliver because of an incorrect address and some how expected the post office to get the card to me at my correct address... Yep the post office got it to me.

Atleast based on my experience the post office is faster and cheaper and the only delivery company I will do business with.

Sly
07-28-2011, 14:57
PO closures doesn't necessarily mean no more delivery. The Hikers Welcome Hostel will accept packages via FedEx and UPS (maybe USPS?) and I sure will arrange to get you to Warren if you need to mail something out. It's also fairly easy to set up a mail station if you have a scale and a computer.

c/o Hikers Welcome Hostel
1396 Rt.25
Glencliff, N.H. 03238

I just got off the phone with the Glencliff postmaster and she said a final decision probably won't be made until next spring. She also sounded hopeful that they'll remain open.

Still, if one has access, it may be prudent to have your cold weather gear shipped UPS, or FedEx, to the hostel, as they're always open, and use the PO to ship your other gear out.

mudhead
07-28-2011, 15:17
No wonder East Andover PO is going out of business. They're using Mapquest and adding 55 miles to deliver mail to Andover.

Next thing you know, Mapquest will run someone off a cliff, out in the boondocks. I have driven that 57 miles, and it seems like forever. Good moose country tho.

waywardfool
07-28-2011, 16:36
This just in... AP article about it...our local TV news website headlined it "Post office closures would make long hikes harder (http://www.wral.com/business/story/9923938/)"

http://www.wral.com/business/story/9923938/

WingedMonkey
07-28-2011, 16:55
Well written article, surprising for AP. No politics, no "hikers don't need it". Great pics too. Shows how much room hikers take up. Inside and outside of PO offices. Never did understand spreading your stuff out at the front door, gonna assume they did it for the photographer.

:p

Blissful
07-28-2011, 19:54
13331 I like our pic in front of Unionville, PO. Long live the Post office. :)

rickb
07-28-2011, 20:49
There was a very small PO in Aquone, NC -- Burlingtown Gap.

I can't imagine one smaller.

My memory is that it was the size of a port-a-john, but it might have been a bit larger. I tried to google up a picture, but none were to be found. Too small to merit a photo, probably.

If anyone has one, I'd sure like to see it.

Progress.

Del Q
07-28-2011, 20:54
This is past due, as is 6x per week delivery. They have been a huge financial drain............and TWA used to be a great airline. Things change or sometimes businesses just die.

Different Socks
07-28-2011, 21:03
I have viable solution to the PO closings that works for everyone and still saves the PO money, if anyone is interested?

Spokes
07-28-2011, 21:09
Do tell...............

Different Socks
07-28-2011, 21:25
This solution came into my head the moment I saw the headline for the closings: Hospitals use "traveling nurses and doctors" all the time. Why can't the PO have "traveling postal carriers"? It would work like this: One PO employee could go to 3 different PO's per week and hand out mail to the residents who come there to get their mail. PO #1--get your mail Mon/Thur, PO #2--Tues/Fri, PO #3--Wed/Sat. Inbetween, the buildings are kept at minimal utilities, the employee lives in that town or one nearby, the PO saves money, the residents get their mail twice a week and everybody is happy.
If a resident lives outside of town, is too old, handicapped, w/o transportation, etc, then they get a form from the PO to allow a friend, neighbor or family member to get the mail for them.
This is the way it is done in some towns already. This is the way it used to be years ago. People used to schedule their trips to town based on the days the PO was open. Let's just go back to that.
ONE PO employee can do the work of 3 PO locations every week!

This is just a rough draft but I believe it can and will work.

One other solution that the PO already does in some locations: contract out the service. That way the PO only needs to drop off the mail at the business, then the location takes it from there.

Sierra Echo
07-28-2011, 21:44
This solution came into my head the moment I saw the headline for the closings: Hospitals use "traveling nurses and doctors" all the time. Why can't the PO have "traveling postal carriers"? It would work like this: One PO employee could go to 3 different PO's per week and hand out mail to the residents who come there to get their mail. PO #1--get your mail Mon/Thur, PO #2--Tues/Fri, PO #3--Wed/Sat. Inbetween, the buildings are kept at minimal utilities, the employee lives in that town or one nearby, the PO saves money, the residents get their mail twice a week and everybody is happy.
If a resident lives outside of town, is too old, handicapped, w/o transportation, etc, then they get a form from the PO to allow a friend, neighbor or family member to get the mail for them.
This is the way it is done in some towns already. This is the way it used to be years ago. People used to schedule their trips to town based on the days the PO was open. Let's just go back to that.
ONE PO employee can do the work of 3 PO locations every week!

This is just a rough draft but I believe it can and will work.

One other solution that the PO already does in some locations: contract out the service. That way the PO only needs to drop off the mail at the business, then the location takes it from there.

As a postal employee I would like to be the first to say that is one of the stupidest things Ive ever heard. I don't think you realize how much the mail would back up. And furthermore who is gonna case that mail? I suggest you come up with other concepts while on the crapper.

Sly
07-28-2011, 21:59
Here's one of the Post offices on the CDT scheduled for closing. They let me hand out letters one day.

1333213333

DLANOIE
07-28-2011, 22:00
As a postal employee I would like to be the first to say that is one of the stupidest things Ive ever heard. I don't think you realize how much the mail would back up. And furthermore who is gonna case that mail? I suggest you come up with other concepts while on the crapper.

Hahahaha! Ahhh that was funny.

Sierra Echo
07-28-2011, 22:02
Here's one of the Post offices on the CDT scheduled for closing. They let me hand out letters one day.

1333213333


Sly you sexy S.O.B, you can ride with me in my mail truck anyday!

Sly
07-28-2011, 22:04
Sly you sexy S.O.B, you can ride with me in my mail truck anyday!

LOL... thanks, I may take you up on that someday.

Different Socks
07-28-2011, 22:46
As a postal employee I would like to be the first to say that is one of the stupidest things Ive ever heard. I don't think you realize how much the mail would back up. And furthermore who is gonna case that mail? I suggest you come up with other concepts while on the crapper.

Alittle testy are we? This idea has been done before. Obviously you are from a more modern time in the PO lineage.

This is idea is for small towns of only a few 100 people, maybe up to 1000. Those are the PO's they want to close. Think about the idea before shoot it down.

Sierra Echo
07-28-2011, 22:49
Alittle testy are we? This idea has been done before. Obviously you are from a more modern time in the PO lineage.

This is idea is for small towns of only a few 100 people, maybe up to 1000. Those are the PO's they want to close. Think about the idea before shoot it down.

See I don't think YOU understand. You have absolutely no concept on how the modern post office is ran. Regardless of the size of the town. And your right. I'm from a more modern time in the PO lineage and don't recall the days mail deliver was done with horses. Why don't you tell us about it.
A town with a few 100 to a 1000? Thats about how many stops I have on my route.

Different Socks
07-28-2011, 23:00
There wouldn't be any stops on any routes! Did you read all of my post? Everybody would come into town to p/u their mail. And i'm not talking about the time when horses were used. This concept was being used just in the early part of the last century. If people waant their mail they come to the PO, not the mail coming to them. No gas, no vehicle insurance, less vehicles, less maintenance, less payroll, less upkeep of building and grounds. The PO would save alot of money.
Besides, it could be done on a trial basis in many areas of the country. All along the highline here in MT there are towns of 1000 or less people and every one has a PO that is open every day(M--F). Is that really necessary?

Sierra Echo
07-28-2011, 23:06
There wouldn't be any stops on any routes! Did you read all of my post? Everybody would come into town to p/u their mail. And i'm not talking about the time when horses were used. This concept was being used just in the early part of the last century. If people waant their mail they come to the PO, not the mail coming to them. No gas, no vehicle insurance, less vehicles, less maintenance, less payroll, less upkeep of building and grounds. The PO would save alot of money.
Besides, it could be done on a trial basis in many areas of the country. All along the highline here in MT there are towns of 1000 or less people and every one has a PO that is open every day(M--F). Is that really necessary?



And I don't think you have been reading my posts. Where would this mail be stored? Who would case it?
Take this for example. Say each route had a thousand stops. Each stop on average got 5 pieces of mail. Thats 5 thousand pieces of mail for one route. And thats not including parcels and accountables. But say you have a 100 routes in that building. I don't think you understand the magnitude of mail that passes through each Post office each day. And further more there are a hell of a lot more people in America today then there were at the turn of last century.
I'll tell you what. Go to your local PO and propose your idea. And then stand there and let them laugh at you.

WingedMonkey
07-28-2011, 23:23
Different Socks, while your plan may make sense for many of the PO's on the list to be reviewed for closure, it would not help AT hikers much.
Fontana for instance has a normal population of about 30 full-time residents according to the AP story. I'm sure three days a week service would not make much difference to those thirty people. But for the 30 to 40 hikers a day it's already hard enough planning around the limited hours and holidays to get a pick up.

fiddlehead
07-29-2011, 07:49
Not whining, the post office should go. FedEx and UPS do a better job, cheaper.

I guess I'm doing something wrong (if this ^ statement is true)
THe last time I checked, UPS was about double the price of USPS and Fed Ex was about triple.
That was for an aprox 22 lb box going from PA to SC.
If you know something I don't, please tell.