View Full Version : Dog has to be airlifted off of trail
Mrs Baggins
08-01-2011, 14:16
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/07/31/dog-gone-tired-pooch-airlifted-from-angeles-national-forest-after-pooping-out-on-trail/
HiKen2011
08-01-2011, 14:36
Never should have taken him!
They should have airlifted the dog only, leaving the cold owners behind.
Feral Bill
08-01-2011, 15:42
That looks to be a very expensive mistake, unless the chopper owners write it off to training.
JaxHiker
08-01-2011, 15:48
Wow. I'd love to see the bill.
If its anything like the MEDEVAC bill for a chopper to the hospital its in the 10k range.
Never should have taken him!
Indeed, especially not over rough terrain without some kind of dog boots on. Sometimes lessons are learned the hard I guess. Now where was the thread with the guy who wants to thru-hike with his dog. :rolleyes:
30 Large
08-01-2011, 15:59
80lbs... That's a pretty big Lab. I wonder if the media exaggerated a bit as they so often do.
What an incredible waste of resources. Make sure that couple gets the bill along with an extra fee for being idiots.
Nutbrown
08-01-2011, 16:29
My lab is 79#, and she is very trim and powerful. 80 isn't too much of a stretch. On another note, about 11 yrs ago my then boyfriend and I took my parents 13 yo mutt on a hike into Linville Gorge. She punked out on the way up, and my man picked her up and draped her over his shoulders and hiked her up the mountain. He's my husband now...
30 Large
08-01-2011, 16:31
Ahh Linville Gorge :) I'm actually headed there this weekend for a 30mile trip. Love and hate that place at the same time :)
I guess I'm just used to boxers, mine is only 55# and I think he is big lol.
BobTheBuilder
08-01-2011, 17:42
I bet it was the foot pain instead of exhaustion that made the dog quit. Poor baby.
Stir Fry
08-01-2011, 21:02
80lbs... That's a pretty big Lab. I wonder if the media exaggerated a bit as they so often do.
My 10 yo lab is 115 lb been about the same fo 8 years.
SassyWindsor
08-01-2011, 21:05
I'm very surprised anyone would authorize the use of such a critical, expensive, government owned rescue asset to extract someone's pet. Unless it was a chopper for hire and expenses paid for by the person requesting it. The pet's owner should pay, and pay retail.
I'm sure this is not the first time an 80lb dog struggled to complete a hike. The difference this time is cellphones. If this had been the olden days, the days I grew up with, they would have had to figure out a solution on their own and there wouldn't have been any helicopters. Now that everybody has a cellphone, they just call 911 for any stupid reason. They should bill the cellphone companies. They are the ones who have created this "always connected" way of life.
I bet it was the foot pain instead of exhaustion that made the dog quit. Poor baby.
I think you may be right. I'm not an expert about hiking with dogs by any means but to seems to me that area the PCT is a lot more sandy than the AT. The granular sand/rock wore out my Leki tips much faster than expected. I'm sure it was the same for the dogs paw. Add the heat from the sun to the surface of the trail....
If its anything like the MEDEVAC bill for a chopper to the hospital its in the 10k range.
Talk about price gouging. I think the AMC only pays about $500 an hour for their initial hut resupply. If I'm not mistaken most SAR ops are done by volunteers or government agencies.
Jack Tarlin
08-01-2011, 22:12
Sly: Not so sure about that "price gouging" comment, Sly. Helicopters are extremely expensive to fly and maintain. According to what I've heard from several folks who know more about this that you and me, $500 per hour for a search and rescue chopper is actually a really cheap rate. In most places, it'll cost much more.
this is ridiculous. I hope at very least this couple pays every cent of the bill. We should not be using rescue personnel to save Dogs. Good God. It's just a DOG!
In case you all didn't know, out here in California, the Search and Rescue guys are all volunteers. Usually they see any rescue as an opportunity for practice and training.
this is ridiculous. I hope at very least this couple pays every cent of the bill. We should not be using rescue personnel to save Dogs. Good God. It's just a DOG!
Just a dog? I guess you've never owned one.
Since it was in a NF, there may be no bill. Like I said rescue personnel are volunteers, or all ready paid by the government to do what government workers do. If were the husband or wife that needed the rescue, all three would have been evacuated anyway.
Consider it a service.
ChinMusic
08-01-2011, 22:28
Just a dog? I guess you've never owned one.
I remember those folks after Katrina having to leave their pets behind. I couldn't have done it.
WingedMonkey
08-01-2011, 22:44
They were on the Bridge To Nowhere Trail.
The San Dimas Sheriff's Mountain Rescue Team and deputies with the San Dimas Sheriff's Station of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department formed a rescue team and hiked out in the dark to search for the couple and their dog. Due to the terrain and especially because it was now dark, the rescuers had a difficult hike and several rescuers suffered minor injuries.
http://studiocity.patch.com/articles/dog-tired-rescue-on-the-bridge-to-nowhere-trail
It appears they had been reported as not returning, not that they called rescue. After the SAR members were injured, they called in the copter.
Wombat Farm
08-01-2011, 23:03
my 2 cents...stupid, stupid, stupid, couple. It was their responsibility to carry the dog out...together they couldn't carry 80 lbs? Give me a break. That poor dog (who trusted the couple to take care of him!) needs better companions! This is the exact reason why the conversation of "fees" and "insurance" for hiking and rescues is coming up more and more. Hope they get the bill and the dog moves out.
Mr. Bumpy
08-01-2011, 23:39
This is a bit of contrast to signage I saw posted in the Lewis Fork Wilderness area which is used by horse packers. One particular sign warned that horses have died on the trail, motor vehicles are not permitted to rescue downed horses, and to "be prepared" if your horse falls and breaks a leg.
Brewerbob
08-02-2011, 08:44
Just a dog? I guess you've never owned one.
Since it was in a NF, there may be no bill. Like I said rescue personnel are volunteers, or all ready paid by the government to do what government workers do. If were the husband or wife that needed the rescue, all three would have been evacuated anyway.
Consider it a service.Yes, just a dog. And yes I have a dog. There was absolutely no reason for a helicoter. At the very most, a ridgid back brace and carry him out. Hell a wheel barrel would have worked.
And this "service" is just one of the reasons that Cali is bankrupt.
Excellent idea.
http://www.alpinerescueteam.org/pdfs/Boston.pdf
New Hampshire is one of eight states with laws allowing billing for rescuecosts
New Hampshire sent him a bill: $25,734.65 for the cost ofrescuing him.
The bill included more than $24,000 for a helicopter and labor provided bystate fish and game officers. Volunteers provided their time at no charge.
...............................................
Nutbrown
08-02-2011, 09:04
Why couldn't one hike out and the other wait with the dog for a resupply? Poor planning... or no planning.
Brewerbob
08-02-2011, 09:33
Why couldn't one hike out and the other wait with the dog for a resupply? Poor planning... or no planning.Because they are both older and fatter than the dog. I'd have been pissed landing my helicopter out there. So, you slept in the woods with your dog and now you're cold; where's your lighter? No one has any broken bones, sprains, dehydration, etc.? Have a nice hike back. <takes off>
Trailbender
08-02-2011, 10:42
I remember those folks after Katrina having to leave their pets behind. I couldn't have done it.
Yeah, rather than letting my dog drown in a situation like that, I think it would be more merciful to just give it a 9mm haircut.
The Old Boot
08-02-2011, 11:00
They weren't even prepared for a day hike, silly silly people (I'm being polite here!!)
A daypack should always include enough supplies to get you through the night if you have too! Duct tape and a first aid kit would have been enough to fix up the dog's feet if that was the problem, exhaustion just needs some rest time to recover from. Emergency space blankets weigh 2 oz and water tablets weigh even less. No dinner wouldn't hurt them!
OTOH, using a helicopter to airlift them out from 5 miles up the trail is a bit of overhill IMO. It would have been easier to hike in some supplies for them and the dog and let them take a 'vacation' up there. They could have walked out under their own steam when they were ready.
I feel sorry for the dog to have owners' who are so unprepared.
When Hobart, my treasured beagle, was up in years he would just lay down when he was tired. And I would pick him up and carry him. Yes, he only weighed 40 pounds (he never missed a meal and was always on the lookout for any opportunity to snatch a snack). These people should have to pay the bill for their stupidity. Not to mention that they should be ashamed for putting their canine in danger.
Another example of cell phones leading to unnecessary "rescues"?
Just a dog? I guess you've never owned one.
Since it was in a NF, there may be no bill. Like I said rescue personnel are volunteers, or all ready paid by the government to do what government workers do. If were the husband or wife that needed the rescue, all three would have been evacuated anyway.
Consider it a service.
Another "service" paid for by the 50% of those that actually pay Federal taxes? Any time a helicopter is used it costs actual money. This is a great example of a time when those that enjoy the benefit should pay the freight.
What was the carbon footprint of this "rescue"?
Brewerbob
08-02-2011, 12:24
They weren't even prepared for a day hike, silly silly people (I'm being polite here!!)
A daypack should always include enough supplies to get you through the night if you have too! Duct tape and a first aid kit would have been enough to fix up the dog's feet if that was the problem, exhaustion just needs some rest time to recover from. Emergency space blankets weigh 2 oz and water tablets weigh even less. No dinner wouldn't hurt them!
OTOH, using a helicopter to airlift them out from 5 miles up the trail is a bit of overhill IMO. It would have been easier to hike in some supplies for them and the dog and let them take a 'vacation' up there. They could have walked out under their own steam when they were ready.
I feel sorry for the dog to have owners' who are so unprepared.Correct me if I'm wrong but a couple = 2, right? Most people have 2 feet each, right? most dogs have 4 feet, right?
I'm guessing they had four socks then. Fold the sock over 2 or even 3 times each. I've just made some dog booties. Pretty sure I could spare some shoe lace to tie them in place too.
Not picking on you Old Boot. Just pointing out they didn't even bother using what they had.
Correct me if I'm wrong but a couple = 2, right? Most people have 2 feet each, right? most dogs have 4 feet, right?
I'm guessing they had four socks then. Fold the sock over 2 or even 3 times each. I've just made some dog booties. Pretty sure I could spare some shoe lace to tie them in place too.
Not picking on you Old Boot. Just pointing out they didn't even bother using what they had.
Obviously you didn't get the memo. Personal responsibility is a thing of the past. The guvment has taken over that burden.
ChinMusic
08-02-2011, 13:11
There is a difference between being prepared and being fooled. I don't know which camp these folks predominantly fell into.
I do know that I am fairly learned when it comes to hiking with my dog, but stuff can happen. I got fooled on a bike trail hike with my dog on a hot day. The pads of his feet became painful and he began limping. I decided to carry him (31#) out for the last mile and it was all my arms could take. Had something like this happened in a remote area things would have been more difficult.
I agree that this story is ridiculous but just because an owner has a problem with an animal shouldn't automatically bring out the knee-jerk reaction of being unprepared. **** happens. And yes, when it does, the user should pay when appropriate. That goes for mountain climbers too.
Brewerbob
08-02-2011, 13:58
Obviously you didn't get the memo. Personal responsibility is a thing of the past. The guvment has taken over that burden.I'm ok with that. Just be sure to fill your chek out to the proper branch of the guvment. I know in FL if you wrecked your car into a telephone pole, the electric company would send you a bill.
I'm ok with that. Just be sure to fill your chek out to the proper branch of the guvment. I know in FL if you wrecked your car into a telephone pole, the electric company would send you a bill.
Kudos to FL.
I'm ok with that. Just be sure to fill your chek out to the proper branch of the guvment. I know in FL if you wrecked your car into a telephone pole, the electric company would send you a bill.
Most places I've insured a car that would be paid by your insurance company under property damage.
More states need to adopt the COSAR program used in Colorado. While not rescue insurance per se, I'm pretty sure if will reimburse the agency used for your rescue if you need one. However, I doubt it covers dogs.
mangus7175
08-02-2011, 19:23
I agree the couple should've been more prepared. However, for those who aren't familiar with this trail, it is particulary tough. Mileage isn't much (9 miles from trailhead to the Bridge) but it's the terrain that really gets to you. Multiple water crossings and sharp rocks...not your typical easy trail. The difficulty of the trail may have deterred the couple from opting carrying the dog...who knows. I was actually in the area when this happened but didn't find out until I saw it on the local news. I frequent the ANF area and you really have to be prepared and pack accordingly, day hike or not.
Wise Old Owl
08-02-2011, 23:12
After careful consideration, it appears they were near or on Glendora Mountain, a 14k+ peak. There is NO comparison to the AT here. Over the years I have made a quite a few mistakes on trails.... it does not appear that they could have made a drag to get the dog off the trail... I suspect they called for help and the rescue team shows up to solve the problem - you just have to go with what shows up....
After careful consideration, it appears they were near or on Glendora Mountain, a 14k+ peak. There is NO comparison to the AT here. Over the years I have made a quite a few mistakes on trails.... it does not appear that they could have made a drag to get the dog off the trail... I suspect they called for help and the rescue team shows up to solve the problem - you just have to go with what shows up....
There are thirteen 14k peaks in California and Glendora isn't one of them. Except for Mt Shasta, all the others are in the Sierra.
The highest mountain in the San Gabriels, which are in the Angeles NF, is Mt San Antonio at 10,068. Mt Baden-Powell which is also in this range is 9,399' and just off the PCT.
The only reference I see for a Glendora Mt in the ANF has it at 3,322'
The couple it seems left on a day hike unprepared (ie; day pack with snacks, foul weather gear, oops this is CA it never rains, first aid kit, etc.) but many if not most have done the same at sometime. When the SAR Team located them didn't they have the necessaries to make a litter? The dog could have been carried out. The owners should be billed for the extraction. It was stated i this thread that a supply chopper cost $500/hr, sounds reasonable, but the these folks were taken out in a Medi-Vac chopper with much more gear and highly trained personel. Bill them then they and others may think a bit before taking off with their pet, unprepared. IMHO
It was stated i this thread that a supply chopper cost $500/hr, sounds reasonable, but the these folks were taken out in a Medi-Vac chopper with much more gear and highly trained personel.
Unless you read a different article or watched a different video, how would you know it was a "medi-vac chopper"? The newsperson said rescue helicopter. Again, although they're most certainly highly trained, SAR are either government workers or volunteers, not high paid defense lawyers that bill $500 an hour.
Brewerbob
08-03-2011, 08:50
Unless you read a different article or watched a different video, how would you know it was a "medi-vac chopper"? The newsperson said rescue helicopter. Again, although they're most certainly highly trained, SAR are either government workers or volunteers, not high paid defense lawyers that bill $500 an hour.Pilot's time, fuel, logs, maintaince, ground crew, etc. $500/hr is a bargin. Of course most of it is "funny" money. You've got to maintain the helo whether you fly it or not, support staff are on duty whether flying or not, etc.
Pilot's time, fuel, logs, maintaince, ground crew, etc. $500/hr is a bargin. Of course most of it is "funny" money. You've got to maintain the helo whether you fly it or not, support staff are on duty whether flying or not, etc.
Off topic but...
I was talking to a friend the other day who's a licensed pilot. He said a small place only cost $40 per hour to rent. That includes fuel and oil, and he's only charged for flight time. Landing fees at small airports are reasonable too, about $20. Seemed like a bargin to me.
Of course, getting a license in the 1st place cost a bit.
Brewerbob
08-03-2011, 10:29
Off topic but...
I was talking to a friend the other day who's a licensed pilot. He said a small place only cost $40 per hour to rent. That includes fuel and oil, and he's only charged for flight time. Landing fees at small airports are reasonable too, about $20. Seemed like a bargin to me.
Of course, getting a license in the 1st place cost a bit.Sure, but you still have all the extra costs there too. You can't just buy a plane and start renting it out for $40 an hour. The "associated" costs are much higher. You have to learn double speak.
The war in ___ costs $X billions a day/week/month/year. Bul**** it does. You are always going to have an Army/Navy/Air Force. Those guys get paid whether they are in the US or overseas. You are going to have tanks/ships/planes. They are going to be used in training or overseas. The only real costs are the fuel getting equipement there, the extra hazardous duty pay, and stuff like that.
The news loves a good story tho. No one wants to hear that the helo only burned 5 gallons of gas, the pilot is a vonlunteer, etc. It's more exciting to say the rescue took "hours" (took the pilot an hour to get across town, flight check, and 15 minutes of flying), hypothermia inducing weather (it was 50* and if you were covered in sweat first and lost all your clothes), and cost $52,671 (see above).
Sure, but you still have all the extra costs there too. You can't just buy a plane and start renting it out for $40 an hour. The "associated" costs are much higher. You have to learn double speak.
What associated cost that I didn't say like landing fees? Unless you can come up with examples that make the cost much higher you're out of line and your examples such as the cost of war? Give me a break. This is what a license pilot told me.
Brewerbob
08-03-2011, 12:12
What associated cost that I didn't say like landing fees? Unless you can come up with examples that make the cost much higher you're out of line and your examples such as the cost of war? Give me a break. This is what a license pilot told me.I'm saying there is more background stuff going on. You have the cost of the plane itself, have to get the plane inspected by the FAA, maintain it, etc. $40 an hour is only going to cover your costs if you keep that plane in the air.
I'm saying there is more background stuff going on. You have the cost of the plane itself, have to get the plane inspected by the FAA, maintain it, etc. $40 an hour is only going to cover your costs if you keep that plane in the air.
I'm not talking about the cost of owning a plane, but renting one.
Brewerbob
08-03-2011, 12:19
I'm not talking about the cost of owning a plane, but renting one.Which doesn't have a lot of bearing.
1) I don't think the rescue service is going to rent a plane. And they certainly aren't going to rent the cehapest.
2) I'm not going to rent a plane out without recovering my costs hence the plane is going to have to have a LOT of hours on it.
WalksInDark
08-07-2011, 09:43
Having been on a number of the VA/MD/PA sections of the A.T. over the past couple of weeks, with mid-day temps in the 95 to 111 degree range (at correspondingly high humidity levels) I can attest, by personal observation, that many of the dogs I encountered on the trail were severely over heated; some were in fact exhausted. Most surprising to me was the fact that quite a few of the long haired dog varieties still had their winter length coats intact. How hard would it have been to cut the dog's fur down to an appropriate length for the summer's heat, not much me thinks.
Unless you read a different article or watched a different video, how would you know it was a "medi-vac chopper"? The newsperson said rescue helicopter. Again, although they're most certainly highly trained, SAR are either government workers or volunteers, not high paid defense lawyers that bill $500 an hour.
Sly, as a matter of fact I did read a different article, several in fact, check this link https://local.nixle.com/alert/4715081/?sub_id=400418 and please read this quote from the article. "A Los Angeles County Fire Department helicopter was able to respond, so the ground rescue team prepared Baxter to be airlifted" That certainly wasn't a "supply helicopter", and I would believe that it would fly with its full compliment of personel. I think they will be needing one of those "high paid defense lawyers that bill $500 an hour'.