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nelson7fl
08-03-2011, 20:24
I am thinking about getting a down sleeping bag because its more light and compressible. But being in some of the shelters and stuff afraid of it getting wet and then being screwed because they have a harder time drying out. any advise would be highly appreciative. Hopefully I will see some of you on the trail in 2012.

ALLEGHENY
08-03-2011, 20:35
I am thinking about getting a down sleeping bag because its more light and compressible. But being in some of the shelters and stuff afraid of it getting wet and then being screwed because they have a harder time drying out. any advise would be highly appreciative. Hopefully I will see some of you on the trail in 2012.


You have stated one good example against down.
Don't get down for that reason. If they get wet they loose insulating value and are heavier.

I like...http://wiggys.com

House of Payne
08-03-2011, 20:47
Wait, down should not be disregarded just for that reason alone. I would think that the bag getting wet is the one big CON, yet there are so many more PROS to consider. Aside from lower weights and compactability most down bags today have 'water repellent' shells now, enough to shed light amounts of water without compromising the fill.

nathan2
08-03-2011, 20:51
I'll be hiking nobo in 2012 with a 15 degree down bag and a summer down bag. The summer bag already has 800 or so AT miles on it and has never been wet although I've hike through a lot of rain with it. I wouldn't sweat it too much either way, but I have a hunch you'll see more down bags then synthetic on the AT.

nathan2
08-03-2011, 20:53
I lied. It was wet my first night on the AT even though it didn't rain. I mistakenly thought an emergency bivy would increase its insulation and the condensation had me drenched. It was dry by the next night though.

malowitz
08-03-2011, 20:54
In 2010, I used down bags the whole way. I started with a Western Mountaineering 20 degree bag (I don't remember what model) at 2 lbs. I switched out in Waynesboro to a mont-bell at 1 pound for the rest of the hike. Except as noted below, I never had problems/fears of getting the bags wet. I used a water proof/resistant stuff sack (not the ones that came w/the tents).

I wouldn't unpack the bag until close to bed time and I would re-stuff it early in the morning to squeeze out potential moist air. At time when I was in towns or what not, I would let the sun dry the bag just in case there was moisture accumulating. I never had a problem. I also used a bag liner. On many warm nights, I only slept with the liner.

I started the hike with a tarptent and I could not manage the moisture. The condensation would be dripping even if I had full ventilation open. Therefore I changed tents. I was happier w/the bigger, stronger tent anyway.

So - in my opinion, the weight savings is worth it and you can certainly take care of/manage the moisture/wetness.

bigcranky
08-03-2011, 20:56
Sure, there are hundreds of deaths a year on the AT from people using down sleeping bags. Gotta watch out for that, er, maybe not.

Actually, plenty of thru hikers use down bags. They have many advantages over synthetics: warmth, weight, compressibility, and long life among them. Sure, you need to keep it dry, but that's really not so hard.

Stir Fry
08-03-2011, 20:58
You get your bag that wet it will not matter what its made of you will not be worm. I have spent over 100 nights on the trail in last 6 years never had a problem keeping bag dry. If you are that worried about shelters leaking just cover with ground cloth, or stay in your tent when it rains. Realy, its not that big a problem staying dry.

Hooch
08-03-2011, 21:10
Both down and synthetics have their pros and cons. You've got to make an educated, informed decision in regard to what qualities you're looking for in a sleeping bag. REcommending synthetics over down solely because it retains most of it's insulative value when wet isn't making an informed, reasonable decision. There are many other factors to be considered. Sure, down does indeed lose its insulative value when wet, but with the advances in shell materials and DWR treatment to help shed moisture, they're getting easier and easier to keep dry. Keeping down dry has got to be a priority if you want it to stay that way. Pack liners and dry bags, among other precautions, all help to keep that down nice and dry. When your down is outside of the pack, one of the best things you can do to keep it dry is good tent/tarp site selection, especially in bad weather. Personally, I use a down top quilt and down underquilt in my hammock and have always stayed dry and warm. :D

RevLee
08-03-2011, 23:58
In a shelter you might get a little splash in a heavy rain, but almost all down bags have some form of DWR finish. You would have to be in a puddle or the foot of your bag sticking out in the rain to get soaked in a shelter. You could always use your rain jacket to protect the part of the bag closest to the rain, but I've only had to do that under a tarp, not in a shelter.

wcgornto
08-04-2011, 01:15
I went from Katahdin to Springer in 2009 with down bags. There was rain of epic proportions that year. I was wet. My camera got so wet it died. Nearly everything in my pack was wet numerous times.

My down bag never got wet. I had my priorities in the right order. It's not difficult to keep down bags dry in the worst conditions with a little effort.

Lyle
08-04-2011, 08:21
Down is best and should not be avoided for fear of getting it wet. PrimaLoft is good and reasonably compressible if you scare yourself into synthetic.

Some facts:

- It is difficult to get any sleeping bag wet. Ever try to wash one in a bathtub? Biggest part of the job is getting the darn thing to become saturated.
- A bag that is stuffed into a stuff sack is virtually impossible to get wet.
- Any sleeping bag will gradually accumulate moisture each night, just by the fact that you sleep in it and perspire.

Some tips for any bag, but particularly down:

- Stuff your bag into a plastic bag inside a stuff sack when it is stored on the trail - not at home.
- Remove your bag from the stuff sack a couple of hours before you go to bed to allow it to "fluff"
- Each dry morning, if you have time, place your bag out to air, preferably in a sunny spot. This will allow some or all the night time accumulated moisture to evaporate
- If you bag starts to feel damp, take advantage of sunny lunch breaks to spread your bag for drying
- On cold, cloudy, damp mornings stuff your bag IMMEDIATELY when you get out of it, before you go to pee. This forces most of the moist, sweaty air out of the insulation before the bag cools and it condenses onto the insulation.
- On really wet, humid days, keep your bag stuffed until you are ready to use it.
- Once a week or so, take advantage of town to run your bag through a dryer cycle or two. Just watch it closely so that it doesn't overheat. This will take care of the gradual accumulation of moisture that is the biggest degradation to any bag's effectiveness.

This sounds like it's complicated, but it's not at all. Down offers many advantages over synthetics, and the fears of a wet down bag are greatly exaggerated. They are true however, down is useless when saturated and takes a LONG time to dry. The thing is, short of being lost at sea without a boat, there is no real reason for your down to become saturated while on the trail, unless you really try or are totally mindless to what you are doing - like sleeping the night in a puddle of standing water. Synthetic in this case can be wrung out and probably keep you alive, but as others have said, it will NOT be comfortable.

Either will, and has, worked. If you are really worried about it, buy synthetic and remove that worry. Be aware, however, that as you gain experience and skill, you will probably prefer down. It doesn't take long to develop that preference. My recommendation would be a good down bag, but it's your decision.

Ender
08-04-2011, 08:42
Use down. Unless you fall into a river with your bag unpacked and in your hands, the chances of you getting it wet enough to "screw" you are slim to none.

All good manufacturers of bags use shell materials that don't soak up every little drop of water. I used a down on my AT thru (and PCT hike, and every hike in the last 20 years), and one night woke up in a leaky shelter with a rather significant puddle of water on my down bag. I brushed off the puddle, rolled over, and went back to sleep. The down barely even got damp.

On an AT thru, it's just really not even a worry unless you do something monumentally stupid to get your bag soaked. And even then, you're rarely more than a days hike to a town. So, go with down. The pros far outweigh the cons.

lemon b
08-04-2011, 08:57
I've been on the fence on this subject for years. Right now I use synthetic. To be honest the reason is i've been wet before usually caused by my own mistakes in putting up my shelter. Bottom line at my age I know plenty of people are more skilled then I at keeping equipment dry. I'm glad lyle wrote what he did. I intend to make the switch at some point since alot has changed over the years in both equipment and good old common sence. The biggest end of common sence for myself is to think things thru and always assume it just might be windy and rainy. The most experienced hikers almost all use down.

garlic08
08-04-2011, 09:04
I started my hiking career decades ago with a synthetic bag, being afraid of the wet. When I finally switched to down, I kicked myself for waiting so long. There's no comparison, in my opinion. After 100 miles of hiking in steady rain, day and night, any bag is going to get damp, but I've never had my down compromised enough to make me worry about it. Great tips from Lyle on maintaining the bag--I do all those things automatically and didn't even realize it. Like Big Cranky says, wet bags really aren't a problem on the AT, with a little care.

Wise Old Owl
08-04-2011, 09:26
Regardless of Down or Prmaloft, why not discard the stuff sack, find a comparable Sea to Summit Dry bag that's lighter and we will never have to have a thread like this again!

House of Payne
08-04-2011, 18:58
Regardless of Down or Prmaloft, why not discard the stuff sack, find a comparable Sea to Summit Dry bag that's lighter and we will never have to have a thread like this again!

I just spoke to a sales rep at a local outfitter in Boston today, he showed me a Granite Gear Cuben fiber dry sacks. A bit pricey but so close to bullet proof.

Lyle
08-04-2011, 20:33
Waterproof stuff sacks are fine, but a plastic bag inside the standard one that comes with your sleeping bag is virtually as effective and a lot cheaper. Besides, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a sleeping bag getting wet when it was packed away, at least not to the point of being a problem. They are vulnerable when they are unpacked and being used. The type stuff sack you use won't make a bit of difference then.

Just to clarify for the newbies.

stars in her eyes
08-04-2011, 21:29
I just spoke to a sales rep at a local outfitter in Boston today, he showed me a Granite Gear Cuben fiber dry sacks. A bit pricey but so close to bullet proof.

ZPacks makes a few cuben fiber dry bags too. I don't own one, so can't comment on the performance.

I've only ever used down bags; like most everyone else in the thread says, it's easy to avoid getting them wet if you pay attention and use your noggin.

skinewmexico
08-08-2011, 11:55
Wiggy's. That's hilarious. I used to love it when the owner himself would get on the Backpacker forum and tell everyone they were crazy and stupid.

Keeping a down bag dry is a skill set somewhat akin to walking and chewing gum simultaneously. A synthetic bag will lose about 30% of it's temp rating the first year you use it. And a synthetic bag that is wet is way over-rated as far as keeping you warm.

nelson7fl
08-12-2011, 14:14
Thank you all for your input. I think i am most defiantly going with a down bag now. With that said do you guys no of any good bags that are in the mid 200 price range that will last and can be compressed to a good size. Hopefully you all can give me a little advise on this question to thanks.

lemon b
08-13-2011, 15:53
Got a down 550 Kelty today low money. Was wondering what all those ratings numbers mean? I see 800, 600, and 550. Seems like the 800 is the most money.
Do any of the numbers have to do with mosture retention or just insolation or something else? Thanks

ALLEGHENY
08-13-2011, 19:43
Wiggy's. That's hilarious. I used to love it when the owner himself would get on the Backpacker forum and tell everyone they were crazy and stupid.

Keeping a down bag dry is a skill set somewhat akin to walking and chewing gum simultaneously. A synthetic bag will lose about 30% of it's temp rating the first year you use it. And a synthetic bag that is wet is way over-rated as far as keeping you warm.




Con men understand that their job is not to use facts to convince skeptics but to use words to help the gullible to believe what they want to believe - Thomas Sowell

How do you get to this 30% temp. rating lose in that first year of use. I have had my Wiggy's ftrss for six years and it's warm when I stay out in 0*F to -15*(wind chill) Hunting in PA winters.

Iceaxe
08-13-2011, 20:39
Got a down 550 Kelty today low money. Was wondering what all those ratings numbers mean? I see 800, 600, and 550. Seems like the 800 is the most money.
Do any of the numbers have to do with mosture retention or just insolation or something else? Thanks
The numbers corespond to the free loft of an ounce of down in cubic inches.
So imagine an ounce of down inside a plastic box 550 cubic inches in volume and that is what you have.
Some of the higher quality down like 800 fill power that WM and others use would fill up a box 800 cubic inches in volume for that same single ounce of down.
So theoretically a bag with higher fill power down will have more loft for the same weight as a lower fill power down.
Whether the ounces saved and the money spent is worth while to you is entirely personal.

Enic
08-13-2011, 20:59
The numbers corespond to the free loft of an ounce of down in cubic inches.
So imagine an ounce of down inside a plastic box 550 cubic inches in volume and that is what you have.
Some of the higher quality down like 800 fill power that WM and others use would fill up a box 800 cubic inches in volume for that same single ounce of down.

Also, adding to that idea... The high the fill number, the better quailty of the down. So a sleeping bag rated at 20 Degrees F, with 600 will wiegh more than a 20 degree bag with 800 fill. That's where the price differences start, coupled with the outter material and brand of the bag.

There are a lot of decent bags for the AT. The cheapest one people on WB tend to throw around for a first purchase is the Campmor 20 degree, weighing in at around 2 pounds. From there, you just have to see what works for you!

Currahee D
09-29-2011, 14:31
How and why does a synthetic bag lose 30% of its insulative value?

DavidNH
09-29-2011, 15:02
there's no reason a down bag should get wet. You put it in a water proof stuff sack and put that into a waterproof garbage bag in your pack. Only take bag out when in shelter or tent. I carried a down bag on my thru and i was fine.

jeramie75
09-29-2011, 15:17
How and why does a synthetic bag lose 30% of its insulative value?

The breaking down of fibers and lack of loft.

Don Newcomb
09-30-2011, 15:07
I have a nice collection of sleeping bags. Some of them are down Holubar & Sierra Designs bags from the late '60s, early '70s. In those days down was it. The alternatives were just not that good. Today, the synthetic bags are really good, light and easy to care for. I almost always use a synthetic bag any more. In a cold, dry climate where weight and space are primary concerns, down still has a significant edge.

Don Newcomb
09-30-2011, 15:12
there's no reason a down bag should get wet. You put it in a water proof stuff sack and put that into a waterproof garbage bag in your pack. Only take bag out when in shelter or tent. I carried a down bag on my thru and i was fine. There are lots of ways for a bag to get wet. Condensation is one. This can be minimized by proper use. Another way can be if you're in a tent in a real shoulda-stayed-at-home, frog-choking, gully-washer. In one of those, everything gets wet.

skinewmexico
09-30-2011, 15:20
How and why does a synthetic bag lose 30% of its insulative value?

Every time you compress it, it loses some loft. Use a compression stuff sack, it's even worse. Only way around this is to use an excess of insulation, which results in a much, much heavier bag, but you lose temp rating slower. Some synthetics lose loft more slowly, but they all lose it, unlike a down bag, where a quality bag will keep it's loft for 15-20 years if properly cared for.

For a down bag in the $200s, I'd look at a Marmot. You can use spadout.com to find the best deals. And if you wanted to spend more and get a lifetime bag, there is always Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends.

jtbradyl
09-30-2011, 15:48
If you are hiking in a warm humid environment there's nothing wrong in using a light synthetic well designed sleeping bag. You can save some money as well. Down is certainly a versatile fill material but it is not always the best choice.

Mundele
10-10-2011, 13:31
+1 to down.

I think it's a bad idea to use only this one factor in judging the bag. Go and look at two bags in a store. Compare how well they compress into their stuff sacks. Compare the weight. Next see how well they "drape" or contour to your body.

To me there's no comparison.

Oh, and a synthetic bag will quickly degrade, even if stored properly. a good quality down bag will last you a very long time with proper "care and feeding".

DapperD
10-10-2011, 20:57
Wait, down should not be disregarded just for that reason alone. I would think that the bag getting wet is the one big CON, yet there are so many more PROS to consider. Aside from lower weights and compactability most down bags today have 'water repellent' shells now, enough to shed light amounts of water without compromising the fill.This is true. I always used to hear and believe that synthetic fill was the better choice for use on the AT due to the wet conditions that one is going to be finding themselves in. But after learning more, I now believe down is the way to go. It is much lighter, compresses better, and like you say if you get the water repellent coating on the bag, and keep it in a waterproof bag until ready to use, I think if care is given, down is the better choice of the two. One note though in regards to the water repellent coating, I did hear that the bag can begin to become damp inside from use over time, and when possible to it is smart to open it up to allow it to dry out every once and awhile.

SassyWindsor
10-11-2011, 13:25
Down, as long as you are not careless. When wet is impossible to dry and will not keep you warm, like wet jeans. Synthetic, especially the high end stuff, will keep you warm even when wet. Your call.

Really just a weight issue. Synthetic will be heavier for the same warmth delivered by down.

SassyWindsor
10-11-2011, 13:29
...... I would recommend synthetic if canoing or kayaking. I use a Marmot Cat's Meow and really like this bag. Anything other than traveling on water I use a WM down bag.

wwbriggs
10-11-2011, 13:48
I personally use a Mountain Hardwear Synthetic. I agree with Wise Old Owl, get a good dry bag and move on to the next point of discussion "weight" and "features." I really like these Cuben Dry bags. They are glued and seam sealed with roll top. Fair prices too. I have one as a liner for my pack and another for my sleeping back and base layer. http://lawsonequipment.com/All-Products/Rolltop-Drybags-p508.html

Papa D
10-11-2011, 20:53
There is no reason a down bag should get wet - you carry it in a stuff sack and a plastic bag inside that, so, go for it --- but, the driest tent will build up condensation and not all shelters are waterproof and frankly, after a few 25 mile days, you sometimes get careless - I use a down bag in the winter and will often use it on 5-10 day backpacking trips but for a thru hike, I would use a light synthetic bag except for the White Mountains where I would carry a down bag. If I was in GA before April 1 and in Maine after September 15, I might also use a down bag.
FYI, for my thru-hike, I used a 20 degree(?) Caribou Synthetic Bag (which was pretty big) almost the entire way - I was SOBO. I transitioned to a North Face Bag down in Damascus VA.

QiWiz
10-12-2011, 17:04
It's not difficult to keep down bags dry in the worst conditions with a little effort.

+1 on down; just take good care of it; always keep inside a waterproof bag inside your pack; dry in the sun when you can

Spokes
10-12-2011, 17:23
Down........ Yes.

Walkintom
10-13-2011, 22:44
Is anyone here who uses a down bag allergic to down?I'm not allergic but my wife is and I am curious as to whether I could get away with a down bag. I have a decent but not great synthetic now,

Carl Calson
12-19-2011, 17:43
i was caught in a rainstorm in the smokies on easter break this year and, without a rain cover for my pack, my sleeping bag got drenched. luckily for me, it was synthetic. i dried it over the fire for a while but didn't get it completely dry, slept in it anyway, and was comfortable all night long.

then i bought a down bag and a sea to summit dry sack, and don't worry about it anymore.

Tinker
12-19-2011, 18:14
Use heavy wool blankets and lots of them. ;) Hey, it worked for the cowboys, didn't it? :D

Down. It will be as warm when you finish as when you started (unless you use a compression sack and crush the plumules of down to death).

Synthetic. It will lose loft slowly as you pack and unpack it. The fibers are given a crimp in a heated environment to make them spring back when compressed. Think of it as a "perm". When repeatedly stuffed, this "perm" relaxes, and, just as with hair, straight synthetic insulation fibers take up less space than curly ones. Less dead air space in the bag means less trapped air (also called loft) which results in a colder bag. The weight will not decrease, unfortunately.
Leave the bag in a hot trunk in its stuffsack (or worse, a compression sack), and the fibers will get soft and lose their crimp prematurely.
Dry your wet synthetic bag in a hot dryer and you could ruin it in half an hour (I did that once, myself).

My recommendation? Get a good down bag and keep it dry. It will last for years.
OR: Get a synthetic bag, saving money,carry more weight and bulk, necessitating a bigger pack, worry less about water, and plan on replacing your bag after your hike or, possibly, once it gets cold again, before your hike is over.
OH- Once you try a down bag and feel how it snuggles around you, keeping every nook and cranny of your body warm, any synthetic bag will feel like a bag with house insulation in it. :)

Ladytrekker
12-19-2011, 21:05
My Montbell super spiral 15 degree down was the purchase I have ever made. Light, roomy and warm.

Echraide
12-20-2011, 07:26
there's no reason a down bag should get wet.

Splashup is one reason.

SassyWindsor
12-25-2011, 03:45
Wow, just got the best xmas present ever, a new Western Mountaineering Puma w/gore wind-stopper. Had been concerned about an upcoming winter outing and if my old WM bag would keep me warm. This bag is rated at -25 deg F, 3#-13ozs, shouldn't have to worry about the cold.

Lyle
12-25-2011, 09:50
Splashup is one reason.

Lower your tarp.

Tinker
12-25-2011, 16:31
Splashup is one reason.

Put a hammock under the tarp. ;)

njordan2
12-25-2011, 17:35
Synthetic insulation is hands down the best insulator for a backpacking sleeping bag. When down gets wet, it has the insulating properties of wet toilet paper. I have slept in a synthetic sleeping bag that was soaked enough that it had to be wrung out, and still stayed warm. In fact, sleeping in the thing actually dried it out.

I have also slept in a down bag that was only slightly damp and felt like a cold cotton towel was wrapped around me. Because the down bag was not a fast drier, I carried around all the absorbed water for a couple of days until the thing dried out. So in the end, a down bag of the same rating as a synthetic bag can actually weigh more if it does not dry out as fast as synthetic.

Down's inability to function when damp rules it out.

swjohnsey
12-25-2011, 23:10
I guess that is why 90+% of backpackers are carrying down bags.

CrumbSnatcher
12-25-2011, 23:16
they probably carry down because they are lighter not better :-)
i'm not saying synthetic is better, easier to get down in the smaller packs people are using these days.
how about the down with waterproof shells? rains alot out east, i personally like synthetic

swjohnsey
12-25-2011, 23:35
Wet synthetics doesn't insulate any better than wet down. Keep your bag dry and you won't have a problem. Make it part of your routine to dry your bag when you get a chance as any bag will pick up mosture just from sleeping in it. I like down. My bag weighs one pound.

mikec
12-26-2011, 07:44
I bought a Sierra Designs 0 degree synthetic at Walesi Yi Center at the 30 mile mark on the AT in 1999. That bag was always warm and toasty. I used to throw wet clothes in the bag at night, sleep with them and, in the morning, they were dry. The bag wicked the moisture to the outer shell. Not sure that one could do that with a down bag.

Papa D
12-26-2011, 08:57
Synthetic insulation is hands down the best insulator for a backpacking sleeping bag. When down gets wet, it has the insulating properties of wet toilet paper. I have slept in a synthetic sleeping bag that was soaked enough that it had to be wrung out, and still stayed warm. In fact, sleeping in the thing actually dried it out.

I have also slept in a down bag that was only slightly damp and felt like a cold cotton towel was wrapped around me. Because the down bag was not a fast drier, I carried around all the absorbed water for a couple of days until the thing dried out. So in the end, a down bag of the same rating as a synthetic bag can actually weigh more if it does not dry out as fast as synthetic.



Down's inability to function when damp rules it out.


This is a true comment that is why you must vigorously protect your down bag from getting wet. Here are some steps that I always take:

1) (While backpacking) I keep my bag in a dry sack (Sea to Summit) along with a vapor barrier liner (and long johns for sleeping-in)
2) I do not take it out of this bag until I am right and ready to sleep - if I want to lounge and there is a chance of wetness - I just slide in the vapor barrier only
3) I am very careful the manner in which I pitch my tent and organize the groundsheet floor paying careful attention to where groundwater could get and
4) I also take care to make very sure that the drip edges of my tent extend beyond the ground sheet
5) If it's wet, I will carefully inspect shelters for leaks and use my groundsheet and I will avoid crowded shelters full of wet people (barring an emergency)
6) I work hard to control foot-box vapor and pay attention to vapor issues

Now, this said, I always recommend a synthetic bag to new backpackers and those with limited experience -- I have a few that I even loan out (mainly to kids). I also carry a really light synthetic bag myself for summer use when pop up rainstorms can be a pain (but I've assumed we're talking 4-season stuff here). The main (obvious problem with synthetics) is that to be at all comfortable below about 40 degrees is that you have to carry an absolutely HUGE sleeping bag -- so this rules out comfortable AT travel in GA/NC/TN between September and April.

I've spent countless nights comfortably in down bags (and probably a few uncomfortable nights) but I've never had my bag get soaking wet beyond use - just like I've never caught myself on fire or drowned in a creek - I agree that it is a possibility but it's pretty unlikely if you are careful.

Tinker
12-26-2011, 16:36
I guess that is why 90+% of backpackers are carrying down bags.

And the more miles we hike the dumber we get! :D Failing to keep a down bag dry is dumb (though a couple of times in near exhaustion and hypothermia I left the bag out in the rain/sleet for a couple of minutes until I remembered to put it under the tarp :o). It dried overnight.

I will say that, if you are habitually disorganized you might be better off with a synth. bag. Keep in mind, however, they don't survive as many packing/unpacking cycles as down bags do before they begin to lose loft.

In the summer, when you need less insulation anyway, a synth. bag is easier on the wallet and, since the insulation (mainly) is the biggest weight difference, a 40-50 degree quality synth. bag isn't that much heavier than its down equivalent.

The lower the rating (if accurate), the more the difference in weight. When I worked at REI back in the 1980s, the biggest selling bag for prospective thruhikers was the North Face Cat's Meow (20 degree). I never heard of anyone freezing to death while using one (but back in the latter part of the 20th century, most NOBOs started off in April, and a super-warm bag wasn't crucial).

Lots of variables, HYOH, etc, etc. :)

I'm partial to down bags because of how they drape around every small nook and cranny of your body. Synth. bags tend to feel stiff (boardy, if I can make up a word) in comparison.

Ronnwell
03-27-2012, 13:56
Use heavy wool blankets and lots of them. ;) Hey, it worked for the cowboys, didn't it? :D

Down. It will be as warm when you finish as when you started (unless you use a compression sack and crush the plumules of down to death).

Synthetic. It will lose loft slowly as you pack and unpack it. The fibers are given a crimp in a heated environment to make them spring back when compressed. Think of it as a "perm". When repeatedly stuffed, this "perm" relaxes, and, just as with hair, straight synthetic insulation fibers take up less space than curly ones. Less dead air space in the bag means less trapped air (also called loft) which results in a colder bag. The weight will not decrease, unfortunately.
Leave the bag in a hot trunk in its stuffsack (or worse, a compression sack), and the fibers will get soft and lose their crimp prematurely.
Dry your wet synthetic bag in a hot dryer and you could ruin it in half an hour (I did that once, myself).

My recommendation? Get a good down bag and keep it dry. It will last for years.
OR: Get a synthetic bag, saving money,carry more weight and bulk, necessitating a bigger pack, worry less about water, and plan on replacing your bag after your hike or, possibly, once it gets cold again, before your hike is over.
OH- Once you try a down bag and feel how it snuggles around you, keeping every nook and cranny of your body warm, any synthetic bag will feel like a bag with house insulation in it. :)

Good answer. Everyone's unique requirements requires careful consideration, but for MOST down is the better choice. To echo the thoughts of most here, down bags are lighter, more compressible and last longer which makes a down bag more effective and a better long-term value. I just laugh at the people in this thread saying that synthetic is "hands down" is the BEST choice.

Keeping your bag dry isn't a big deal under MOST situations and the scare tactics are a bit ridiculous. For those that seem to consistently get their bag wet, you may need to brush up on some outdoor skills and strategies. And obviously, if you get your bag wet whether its down or synthetic, its not going to keep you as warm. Of course, there are environments that are notoriously damp for days on end and a synthetic bag may be a better choice.

All of that said, down bags are a superior choice for the vast majority of backpackers that are looking to do multi-day trips and who have even moderate sensitivity to weight. This is especially true for a thru-hiker (getting back to the OP's question). Investing an extra $100 to $200 is worth shedding the extra pound or two as that weight adds up over the course of a 100+ day thru hike. Additionally, the extra room in your pack might enable you to have a smaller pack, saving even more weight.

Tenderheart
04-14-2012, 19:14
Was just wondering if anyone had experience with the Kelty Cosmic 20 Deg down bag. Campmor has it for 90 bucks and weight is only 2.5 pounds. Hard to beat for the price.

nufsaid
04-14-2012, 21:16
Wet synthetics doesn't insulate any better than wet down.
......

Untrue.

Old Boots
04-14-2012, 22:55
You should be able to keep down bag dry from external moisture sources. The moisture you cannot prevent is condensation which is internal.

leaftye
04-14-2012, 23:59
You have to try pretty hard to soak down. I've had some wet nights, and I lost some warmth, but the down still added a lot of warmth. On many of those nights I would have been warmer if I used a vapor barrier. My problem is usually that I sweat so much that I soak my bag from the inside out. That's not a problem with a vapor barrier. A vapor barrier can even make a bag warmer at the end of the night than at the beginning because it can drive out moisture that was already in the insulation.

Lyle
04-15-2012, 08:35
One other advantage to down that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that it is more "breathable". It is much more comfortable to sleep in a down bag in warmer weather, not as clammy feeling as most synthetics.

I am not anti-synthetic, have used quite a few, still own several, but down is superior using most criteria.

SassyWindsor
04-16-2012, 00:36
Quite a few ways to get a sleeping bag soaked, usually accidental, sometimes carelessness. Worst case I've seen was during a bad rain/wind storm when a limb ripped through the tent. Had to stuff rain jacket into hole to slow down the deluge into the tent. Next day several layers of duct tape got stitched into the tear for a temporary fix. Down bag got pretty soaked and really didn't dry until a commercial dryer was found. Wet down bag = cold, sometimes unbearably cold.

Mags
04-17-2012, 17:56
Yeah..another link...but these questions do come up a lot. :)
http://www.pmags.com/sleeping-bags-a-quick-and-dirty-overview

Or, to sum it up,

So which is best? It all depends! As my friend Garlic (http://www.pmags.com/forthwith-100-miles-on-the-arizona-trail) put it once : "Down is always better..except when synthetic is better". http://www.pmags.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif


If I had children outgrowing their gear, was a person who is not careful with their bag in wet weather, not sure if I wanted to get into backpacking or on a very small budget, I'd go with the synthetics.

However, if you are an avid backpacker or camper, I think you are better off with down. A down bag is an investment and is less expensive than a synthetic bag in the long term.

Tenderheart
04-24-2012, 10:54
Was just wondering if anyone had experience with the Kelty Cosmic 20 Deg down bag. Campmor has it for 90 bucks and weight is only 2.5 pounds. Hard to beat for the price.

I reckon not.

kayaker4ever
04-24-2012, 11:19
Waterproof stuff sacks are fine, but a plastic bag inside the standard one that comes with your sleeping bag is virtually as effective and a lot cheaper. Besides, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a sleeping bag getting wet when it was packed away, at least not to the point of being a problem. They are vulnerable when they are unpacked and being used. The type stuff sack you use won't make a bit of difference then.

Just to clarify for the newbies.


When you put a plastic bag inside the stuff sack and then try to pack the sleeping bag you will possibly rip the plastic. At any rate it won't last long. Best way to do it is pack your bag in the stuff sack the use the plastic bag and then a second slightly larger stuff sack. I used that combination for many years and never had a problem. If the extra stuff sack is too much weight then buy a WP stuff sack.