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View Full Version : Can you use an Ursack?



Big Suave
08-12-2011, 09:00
I know you can't use one in Yosemite, but is it practical enough to avoid the other three areas you can't use them to avoid having a canister or do I just need to bite the bullet and buy a canister? Thanks, Preston

Helmuth.Fishmonger
08-12-2011, 09:06
the ursack isn't legal in any Sierra park and wilderness, if used as advertised (tied to a tree). You can hang it in some regions (south of Yosemite up to Pinchot Pass), but you can hang any bag there.

Don't want to get into the details, but rangers have more or less found that bears will get food rewards from these things, even if it takes them an hour to get a drizzle of pulverized food to come out of the bag, while properly hung, they don't get to mess with the bag like that and you have time to get up and scare the bear away.

Get a canister if you want to sleep well. Bears just ignore these things and go to an easier to obtain food source.

schnikel
08-12-2011, 16:38
I agree with the above thread. Bear canisters are the way to go. You wouldn't have to but the can unless you wanted to. You can rent bear canisters from Yosemite, or from wildideas.com. I think the park charges 10$ a week, pretty cheap IMHO. Just mail it back when your done.
Schnikel

ChinMusic
08-12-2011, 16:41
I agree with the above thread. Bear canisters are the way to go. You wouldn't have to but the can unless you wanted to. You can rent bear canisters from Yosemite, or from wildideas.com. I think the park charges 10$ a week, pretty cheap IMHO. Just mail it back when your done.
Schnikel

Park charges $5 per week

Big Suave
08-12-2011, 22:17
I appreciate the info. Does anyone know what kind of canisters they rent? Kind of a silly question, but if it's one of the really heavy ones I may just buy my own. Thanks, Preston

AaronMB
08-13-2011, 12:35
Does anyone know what kind of canisters they rent? Kind of a silly question, but if it's one of the really heavy ones I may just buy my own. Thanks, Preston

The rentals will probably be the ol' Garcias or the Berikade.
Here's an FYI, just in case: http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/containers.htm

leaftye
08-13-2011, 13:03
I don't know about it being the Bearikade since the Inyo NF rangers didn't recognize mine.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
08-16-2011, 16:50
I appreciate the info. Does anyone know what kind of canisters they rent? Kind of a silly question, but if it's one of the really heavy ones I may just buy my own. Thanks, Preston

the parks rent the heavy ones.

you can rent the carbon fiber Bearikades from wildideas.net directly, flat charge for a JMT hike (something like $65 last time I saw that number).

Helmuth.Fishmonger
08-16-2011, 16:51
make that http://www.wild-ideas.net/contact.html - just call them about the rental. These guys are the best, and there is no better bear canister.

No Belay
11-22-2011, 01:14
I just questioned the IGBC about this and here is a copy of their reply. If you read between the lines, I'd say the Ursack is getting some serious consideration. It's about time. My Bear Vault weighs 2lb 9oz and is a PIA to pack. Though I'll have to admit it makes agreat camp stool.

TaTonka


Hi Ta,
Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee commented on their Wall post.
Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee wrote: "At its January 19-20, 2011 meeting, the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee decided to revise
its bear-resistant container testing program. The protocol providing information and guidance
related to this important program is being updated and will be available at this website in the
near future. For information regarding product testing during this time, please contact:
Patti Sowka, Living With Wildlife Foundation (www.lwwf.org (wlmailhtml:{3EE805AC-3927-4A92-9ED0-C1164CD28EEF}mid://00000000/!x-usc:http://www.facebook.com/l/GAQE5lPdO/www.lwwf.org)), (406) 544-5307 or
[email protected]"

Helmuth.Fishmonger
11-23-2011, 10:12
I don't know about it being the Bearikade since the Inyo NF rangers didn't recognize mine.

they didn't recognize a Bearikade? What kind of noobs were they? Bearikade has been around for years and is the prime choice of regulars.

They don't rent them, but you can rent the Bearikades directly from the folks that make them at a flat rate for the JMT ($50 or in that ballpark). The stuff I saw for rent in Yosemite was the old Garcia type and unless you like to carry ballast, I'd recommend to plan ahead and rent a Bearikade.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
11-23-2011, 10:23
Usack will never be legal in the National Parks. It provides "food rewards" for bears that try to get into them. Irrelevant that the bags more or less hold together, but if used as advertised, bears still can get food from the bags, even if it is just traces of your completely destroyed and crushed contents. That's the end of the Ursack story, no matter how much they try to get the product authorized through legal attempts. It simply doesn't work. Food gets crushed into powder, food comes out of holes and poorly tied openings. Improper use is also more likely than with an canister. The ONLY reason this is still being discussed is the current ultralight mania that has people push for completely ridiculous solutions when proven solutions are available, all in the name of saving a few ounces.

Treat the weight of the bear can as the price of admission into National Park bear country, as well as peace of mind solution, and you can stomach the extra weight a little easier. As long as rangers who actually know what happens up there in the mountains have a say in what is working and what is not, the Ursack will only be tolerated in the areas that allow hanging when properly counterbalanced across a tree branch, but you can do that with any bag that is lighter and cheaper than the Ursack, however, you're not gonna do the entire JMT that way legally. Doesn't mean it isn't done every summer by dozens of PCT hikers with the typcial "we know better" attitude, or the "I only use bear cans to protect myself from rangers" BS a certain professional ultra hiker spreads on his web site.

hikingshoes
11-23-2011, 11:26
I love my Ursack Minor!! I hang All my food and never had a problem with any bears. I've ran in to one bear as i was hiking and it seen me and i seen it and it was gone.lol,Not to say I wasnt ready to leave but thank god it left but i did get a pic. of it.HS

No Belay
11-23-2011, 13:04
Usack will never be legal in the National Parks. It provides "food rewards" for bears that try to get into them. Irrelevant that the bags more or less hold together, but if used as advertised, bears still can get food from the bags, even if it is just traces of your completely destroyed and crushed contents. That's the end of the Ursack story, no matter how much they try to get the product authorized through legal attempts. It simply doesn't work. Food gets crushed into powder, food comes out of holes and poorly tied openings. Improper use is also more likely than with an canister. The ONLY reason this is still being discussed is the current ultralight mania that has people push for completely ridiculous solutions when proven solutions are available, all in the name of saving a few ounces.

Treat the weight of the bear can as the price of admission into National Park bear country, as well as peace of mind solution, and you can stomach the extra weight a little easier. As long as rangers who actually know what happens up there in the mountains have a say in what is working and what is not, the Ursack will only be tolerated in the areas that allow hanging when properly counterbalanced across a tree branch, but you can do that with any bag that is lighter and cheaper than the Ursack, however, you're not gonna do the entire JMT that way legally. Doesn't mean it isn't done every summer by dozens of PCT hikers with the typcial "we know better" attitude, or the "I only use bear cans to protect myself from rangers" BS a certain professional ultra hiker spreads on his web site.

Damn Fishmonger! We weren't aware that we had the God assigned authority on "bear canisters" here on WB or I'm sure nobody else would have posted in this thread. The ultralight mania isn't current. It started years ago. If you're content to live "In the box" with you're "proven" solutions fine, but get off the arse of forward thinking hikers that aren't. As far as Rangers that actually "know" what goes on up there, one of the post spoke of a Ranger that didn't know what a Barricade was. Duh ! I have a good friend that's a NPS LEO ranger and she carried a gun for almost a year that wouldn't fire and didn't know it until qualifying the next season. If you believe they're the authority on what's going on "up there"
you may be a bit confused.
:-?

attroll
11-24-2011, 03:51
Usack will never be legal in the National Parks. It provides "food rewards" for bears that try to get into them. Irrelevant that the bags more or less hold together, but if used as advertised, bears still can get food from the bags, even if it is just traces of your completely destroyed and crushed contents
This makes sense.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
11-27-2011, 10:48
Damn Fishmonger! We weren't aware that we had the God assigned authority on "bear canisters" here on WB or I'm sure nobody else would have posted in this thread. The ultralight mania isn't current. It started years ago. If you're content to live "In the box" with you're "proven" solutions fine, but get off the arse of forward thinking hikers that aren't. As far as Rangers that actually "know" what goes on up there, one of the post spoke of a Ranger that didn't know what a Barricade was. Duh ! I have a good friend that's a NPS LEO ranger and she carried a gun for almost a year that wouldn't fire and didn't know it until qualifying the next season. If you believe they're the authority on what's going on "up there"
you may be a bit confused.
:-?

The term ranger covers a wide range of skills and duties. I actually know some of the rangers who do have input on the subject, so I am "off my arse" - there is a difference between a backcountry ranger that spends the entire summer in the mountains and a temp helper handing out permits in town or pulling over drunk camper drivers. I doubt they ask the Yosemite traffic cop "ranger" about what bear canisters are proving themselves effective in the backcountry.

And one more time to make it clear - it is not about what stays in the ursack after a bear attack. It is about completely discouraging bears from even trying to get your food, and only a hard shell sealed canister provides zero incentive to continue trying. A bag that will drizzle out gatorade powder once in a while will ony have bears come back and keep tearing on the bags to get these things figured out. Bears are smart and will not waste energy on efforts without a reward, but the ursack keeps rewarding, be it in small amount, almsot like a tease, a problem to solve for the bears. It keeps them interested. They will be in camp for a long time, won't leave once they start tearing up a bag. A proper canister gets completely ignored, and bears won't even bother to get into them any longer.

But be my guest and try it yourself.

tuswm
11-28-2011, 19:38
Damn Fishmonger! We weren't aware that we had the God assigned authority on "bear canisters" here on WB or I'm sure nobody else would have posted in this thread. The ultralight mania isn't current. It started years ago. If you're content to live "In the box" with you're "proven" solutions fine, but get off the arse of forward thinking hikers that aren't. As far as Rangers that actually "know" what goes on up there, one of the post spoke of a Ranger that didn't know what a Barricade was. Duh ! I have a good friend that's a NPS LEO ranger and she carried a gun for almost a year that wouldn't fire and didn't know it until qualifying the next season. If you believe they're the authority on what's going on "up there"
you may be a bit confused.
:-?
how many rangers would carry a gun if they didnt have to?

bamboo bob
11-28-2011, 19:50
I used a canister in the Sierras as required. But since I couldn't fit all my food into it I had to use my food bag too. I hung the food bag but never saw any bears except when hiking near the car camping spots. Also I ran out of food and had to stop at VVR to resupply. I guess the canisters do the job, tough to tell since I saw no sign of any bear in the high country. I'm told that California bears are so much smarter than East coast bears, I don't understand how that can be.
Truthfully I just think it is a "rule" and must be obeyed.

Rasty
11-28-2011, 21:27
East coast bears are probably smarter than west coast bears. A female bear named Yellow Yellow has defeated the bear vault brand.http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/nyregion/25bear.html?pagewanted=all

Rasty
11-28-2011, 21:30
Sorry the link did not work.look up yellow+yellow+bear+adirondacks

leaftye
11-29-2011, 02:01
East coast bears are probably smarter than west coast bears. A female bear named Yellow Yellow has defeated the bear vault brand.http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/nyregion/25bear.html?pagewanted=all

She learned how to do that at a class operated by Yosemite bears.

Miner
11-29-2011, 12:50
East coast bears are soo behind the times. Bear Vaults have been occasionally opened by bears in the Sierra Neveda for years. Which is why Bear Vault has changed how the lid works more then once so they can stay quailified in bear can restricted areas. There is a reason why the heavier and older Garcia can is the one that Rangers normally rent out in the Sierra Neveda as they have never had to upgrade or retrofit them.

As for Ursack, I've had great success with one. The problem with Ursack is the user base. Anyone that lets a bear chew on it for several hours is an idiot. So in this aspect it isn't as good as a hard sided can. But it certainly is far better then bear hanging which when done properly still doesn't stop many Sierra bears. The way I use my Ursack is to do the same thing I use to do with bear hanging and that is to tie my pot and lid to it (never used to cook in, only boil water in it) so that when its messed with it makes a nice noise. An odor proof sack inside also helps if you aren't in a spot that a bear checks every night. When you hear the pot clanging, chase off bear. Repeat as necessary and loose some sleep. Though to be honest, I stopped camping in heavy use areas of the Sierra and haven't had a bear in my camp at night for a couple of years now. I hang out in popular scenic areas during the daylight hours and move on in the late afternoon or evening to camp in places less crowded by other campers who are nicely concentrated with their dinner smells luring any bears towards them and away from me.

Rasty
11-29-2011, 17:11
The article states that bear vault has been using the bear named yellow yellow as a test bear for the updated canister. She defeats the newer models also. Pretty cool bear.

Amanita
12-01-2011, 02:02
I recall reading somewhere that the actual law in the adirondacks is a "hard sided commercially available bear resistant container" or some such. This would be for the eastern high peaks, including yellow yellow's territory. If that's the case wouldn't adding the aluminum lining to an ursack make it meet the requirements?

Something I intend to research more...

Amanita
12-01-2011, 02:16
Okay, I misremembered, but I found my source.

A user posted this as being the exact law:

"6 NYCRR Paragraph 190.13(b)(2) defines a bear-resistant canister as "a commercially made container constructed of solid, non-pliable material manufactured for the specific purpose of resisting entry by bears."

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=42582

Kind of annoying that they pretty much only "highly discourage" bearvault use (despite yellow yellow) but it is not illegal while the definition means that ursack probably is.

Cookerhiker
05-31-2012, 21:31
For this year's JMT thruhike, decided on the BearVault 500 which arrived last week. I had read of problems getting the lid off in the beginning but it doesn't seem too bad.

On BearVault's website (http://www.bearvault.com/bearvault_dealers.php), you find a list of vendors. Shop around - the prices are not the same, many offer substantial discounts. I ordered mine from MoonTrail (http://www.moontrail.com/home.php?cat=396).

ndwoods
06-01-2012, 01:18
I have used the Bearikade all over the Sierra and never had a ranger not know what it was....and never had a problem with one.