Keen Targhee II, damn near killed me...

[House of Payne]

I just got back from being in the whites for 3 days. I researched some trail shoes (converted from boots) for my future AT attempt in 2014.
I decided to go with the Keen Targhee II for a couple of reasons, the Keen.dry liners were very comparable to an event lining and they had a little more room in the toebox than most shoes. Both those things turned into the only pros (vs. cons) on this trip into the whites this week. The liners kept my feet dry, even in a moderate rain and going through alot of small streams and the larger foot room in the toebox gave my feet just enough extra room that I endured no hotspots and no blisters. The keen.dry liners were also very nice breathers, my feet were always very comfortable with sweat being moved away from my skin. During the break-in period and some light day hikes prior all seemed ok, put about 35 miles on them or so.
Now, here comes the deal breaker, Keen soles suck big time! My boots, when I used them for years , always had Vibram soles, Keens do not use these and make their own. I have always had very good luck with Vibram on wet surfaces. So, being under the canopy for most of the trip (and most any other trips in my area) the surfaces are almost always wet here and there if not everywhere. My landings and push-offs with the Keens really put me in harms way so many times that I became very nervous on what things would be like on the more difficult 'downs' that were coming up on the second part of day one.

I'm home with several cuts on my knees caused by slips (mostly push-offs) and have convinced myself that I will be returning these 2 week old shoes back to EMS for something else. I have had some good luck with Merrel in the past and may give them another look, they have vibram soles...

Anyways, the message is to stay away from the Keens shoes unless you are using the shoes as casual or maybe even a work shoe.

[hikerboy57]

You should have asked me.:) I wore them last year in the Mahoosucs, and never really felt secure, slipped too many times where I shouldnt have.I did have the Klamaths before, which were pretty good , but for some reason the Targhees just dont keep you on the rock.I used Merrill Moabs on the grafton loop and up and down madison, and they had pretty good grip.My prblem is Keens are the most comfortable boots Ive ever worn. I just wish they would use stickier rubber.

[House of Payne]

You should have asked me.:) I wore them last year in the Mahoosucs, and never really felt secure, slipped too many times where I shouldnt have.I did have the Klamaths before, which were pretty good , but for some reason the Targhees just dont keep you on the rock.I used Merrill Moabs on the grafton loop and up and down madison, and they had pretty good grip.My prblem is Keens are the most comfortable boots Ive ever worn. I just wish they would use stickier rubber.

I agree with you on that point, the Keens were very comfortable. But just like anything else, if we could all build our own boots/shoes they would be the best things ever. Despite being very comfortable they are much too dangerous for me, I don't trust them at all.

The Moabs were next in line on my test shoes, I may just give these Targees back and go with those. They do have vibrams :)

[4eyedbuzzard]

I agree with you on that point, the Keens were very comfortable. But just like anything else, if we could all build our own boots/shoes they would be the best things ever. Despite being very comfortable they are much too dangerous for me, I don't trust them at all.

The Moabs were next in line on my test shoes, I may just give these Targees back and go with those. They do have vibrams :)
I've had traction issues even with "Vibram" branded soles on a pair of Asolo boots. It's gotten harder to find good sticky hiking shoes lately. I think maybe some of it has to do with thinner soles/shallow lugs/lighter weight materials and perhaps that a lot of this gear is being marketed to street users and sole wear is being favored over traction.

[hikerboy57]

Actually the best boots Ive worn were Lowa renegade GTX, comfortable, and gave me the best traction, but theyre on the heavy side. Five- ten makes a few shoes with climbing quality rubber, they just dont fit my feet well.

[House of Payne]

Actually the best boots Ive worn were Lowa renegade GTX, comfortable, and gave me the best traction, but theyre on the heavy side. Five- ten makes a few shoes with climbing quality rubber, they just dont fit my feet well.

When I was in a local North Conway Village retailer after my hike I saw the 5-10 approach shoes. I liked the look of the shoes very much. And knowing they are more of a climbing company, not the general purpose type, I can imagine the rubber quality would be where it should be.

Any 5-10 owners out there?

[hikerboy57]

ive used five tens for climbing, have a pair of old mountain master approach shoes, which are fine for me on dayhikes, but not enough room in the toebox for carrying weight any distance.Most of the toeboxes on five tens are cut narrow for "edging", normally you need climbing shoes to fit tight.for backpacking I prefer no black toenails.

[wornoutboots]

I wear Keen Targhee II hiking shoes & have never had a problem, best boot I've owned, I've hiked hundreds of miles on the AT in heavy snow, days of rain & everything in between?

[singing wind]

Oh gosh, thanks for this feedback. I've been looking at the Keen Targee mid boots - not anymore. Think I'll stick with Montrail and anything with their super gripping GT soles where I can get them. Thanks!

[speedbump]

I am on my 4th pair of the Targee 2 and will buy more. They are super comfortable. I have done many hikes in them. The only con is that they don't last long, only about 1 season a hiking. I will be doing the Mahoosics very soon and plan on using them.

[Snowleopard]

Not all Vibram soles are the same.
I had that problem with some Raichle (now owned by Mammut) shoes similar to the low Keen Targhee except they had a shallow lugged Vibram sole. They were treacherous and slippery on wet rock. My heavy Raichle boots, with a different thick lugged Vibram sole had good traction on wet rock. I think the rubber compound on the heavy boots just has more traction and I think it wears faster than the slippery shoes.

I recently got some 5.10 Guide Tennies, http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3653636 They're not rock climbing shoes but have the same high friction rubber soles and fit like a regular hiking shoe. They have a pretty shallow lug, so may not be as good in mud as shoes with thick lugs. I haven't used them much yet, so I'm not sure how they are on wet rock.

[Sierra Echo]

I have a pair of Keen boots and really the only time I have ever had a problem with them being slick was when I feel into the river at Tallulah Gorge. After that all bets were off, they were like ice skates.

[House of Payne]

Not all Vibram soles are the same.
I had that problem with some Raichle (now owned by Mammut) shoes similar to the low Keen Targhee except they had a shallow lugged Vibram sole. They were treacherous and slippery on wet rock. My heavy Raichle boots, with a different thick lugged Vibram sole had good traction on wet rock. I think the rubber compound on the heavy boots just has more traction and I think it wears faster than the slippery shoes.

I recently got some 5.10 Guide Tennies, http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3653636 They're not rock climbing shoes but have the same high friction rubber soles and fit like a regular hiking shoe. They have a pretty shallow lug, so may not be as good in mud as shoes with thick lugs. I haven't used them much yet, so I'm not sure how they are on wet rock.

Thanks for your comments Snow...I'm curious on how you make out with these shoes. I took a look and my only concern was the shallow lug, as you said.

[hikerboy57]

Thanks for your comments Snow...I'm curious on how you make out with these shoes. I took a look and my only concern was the shallow lug, as you said.EMS has recently added to their collection of 5.10s. Just keep in mind the toe box is a little narrow. Their rubber is better than any other maker Ive tried, will stick you to slickrock. they use their patented "stealth" sticky rubber.

[Joey B]

i've worn keen's for a few years now.
they fit my feet better than any other brand i've used.
the delta in the colder months, red rock mid during the others, with their sandals when on creek trails and summer hikes.
traction and surefooted feel is on par with scarpa's, osolo's or any other brand i've used.
i've slipped and busted butt at times on wet rocks and wet trail while wearing all 3 brands.

but, i guess it's all personal preferences.

[JaxHiker]

Actually I wear the Targhee II and have never had a problem with them. I love them. However, I find the mid better than the low and switched to Teva for a low shoe.

[echoes]

I wore Targhee II's on the Colorado Trail this year. Probably have about 800 miles on them. The tread is pretty worn now and I'm ready to throw them out, but I don't have any complaints. They're the most comfortable shoes I've ever had and I didn't have any problems with traction until the last couple hundred miles. I slipped more on dirt and gravel than I did on rock, to be honest.

[hikerboy57]

just came back from a trip to the whites and maine, and wore merrill Moabs, instead of my Keen targhees. they stuck to the rock better, but I decided Id rathe go with the keens for my thru next year, as theyre more comfortable, only a few ounces heavier, and dont anticipate any traction problems till im back in NH, so they should be fine.

[Wags]

the thing i think is this. the 'sticky' soled shoes, which work well in wet terrains, use a softer plastic for the sole. so they can sort of smear and get the most surface area on the rock or w/ you're stepping on. therefor they have a shorter lifespan. so most outdoor shoe makers use a harder (vibram is one) sole to make the shoe last longer.

[Farr Away]

Is there anything you could brush onto the bottom of a hiking shoe/boot to improve traction?

A suggestion for fixing traction of slick winter boots: brush rubber cement onto the bottoms, then set them into sand. I haven't tried it; I read it somewhere. It's supposed to help traction on ice a lot. It might actually make traction worse on rock though.

[hikerboy57]

the sticky rubber is only part of the equation, the other part is surface area,. as mentioned above , they usually have very shallow lugs for more surface area, but then you've got issues with mud and snow, so you try to find a happy medium. Im still looking.

[leaftye]

I've had 5.10 approach shoes. The grip they provided was spectacular, but of course they wore out quickly and easily left scuffs and hard floors. This was nearly ten years ago. I intended on getting another set of their shoes, but it seemed that they had given up making this type of shoes as everything I could find was difficult to find and on clearance, so I decided to go another direction. I think they make this type of shoes again, but I haven't tried it and probably won't.

As to a question asked a couple posts ago, 5.10 used to sell their Stealth rubber separately so that you could put it on any shoe.

[hikerboy57]

I've had 5.10 approach shoes. The grip they provided was spectacular, but of course they wore out quickly and easily left scuffs and hard floors. This was nearly ten years ago. I intended on getting another set of their shoes, but it seemed that they had given up making this type of shoes as everything I could find was difficult to find and on clearance, so I decided to go another direction. I think they make this type of shoes again, but I haven't tried it and probably won't.

As to a question asked a couple posts ago, 5.10 used to sell their Stealth rubber separately so that you could put it on any shoe.EMS now stocka a good variety of 5.10s. If the shoes you had are the same as mine, mountain masters they no longer make them. They do make a mid boot, the exum guide that has the rubber. i just wasnt happy with the tread. for an approach shoe, you cant beat their "tennie". 5.10 also has a website .
PS. Im not promoting 5.10, just trying to be helpful. I find the shoes are great for dayhikes, dont think they're good enough for long distance backpacking, except maybe the exum if you get the right fit.

[Chaco Taco]

Weird. I had the exact opposite experience with these shoes. I got some in before heading into the 100 Miles in 08 and it rained for 5 days and never had any issue with their stickiness on rocks and such. Always great grip


I did a review of Montrail Badrocks and they have some serious grip on the rocks. Really good shoe for The Whites in warmer weather/fall

[Odd Man Out]

Earlier there was a discussion of Merril Moab Ventilators. +1 on that. I love my Moabs. However, I have found that the two versions fit me very differently. The waterproof version with Gore Tex lining I find to be very uncomfortable. When I take a step, the sole folds right behind my toes and pinches my foot badly. The non-waterproof version seems to be more stable. I don't know why this should be. I thought maybe it was just a bad shoe, so I tried on other pairs is several stores and they were all the same. The Gore Tex version were bad but the regular ones were like wearing pillows on my feet.

[House of Payne]

just came back from a trip to the whites and maine, and wore merrill Moabs, instead of my Keen targhees. they stuck to the rock better, but I decided Id rathe go with the keens for my thru next year, as theyre more comfortable, only a few ounces heavier, and dont anticipate any traction problems till im back in NH, so they should be fine.

Hikerboy, are you still going to use the keens on your thru? I was just curious if you changed your mind or not. I'm going to give Oboz a trial run this summer.

[MissMagnolia]

Hmmm. I tried on all sorts of shoes and boots at REI and originally I bought the Vasque Breeze boots. I love them for snow, but hate hiking in boots. I never did hike in boots but thought I should with a pack. I wore them at work to break them in and nearly fell several times on the painted cement floor when it got wet. They were more slippery than my crocs are on that surface so I don't even want to try them on wet rocks.

Now that I've given up on the idea of boots and am going back to what I like, I found that the best fit for my feet are the Keen Voyageurs. I haven't tried them with the wet floor or wet rocks but I don't see how they could be worse than the boots. I was considering cutting shallow gashes into the boot lugs to create my own extra traction. Has anybody tried that before?

[hikerboy57]

Hmmm. I tried on all sorts of shoes and boots at REI and originally I bought the Vasque Breeze boots. I love them for snow, but hate hiking in boots. I never did hike in boots but thought I should with a pack. I wore them at work to break them in and nearly fell several times on the painted cement floor when it got wet. They were more slippery than my crocs are on that surface so I don't even want to try them on wet rocks.

Now that I've given up on the idea of boots and am going back to what I like, I found that the best fit for my feet are the Keen Voyageurs. I haven't tried them with the wet floor or wet rocks but I don't see how they could be worse than the boots. I was considering cutting shallow gashes into the boot lugs to create my own extra traction. Has anybody tried that before?never tried it, but it probably wouldnt help. you want as much surface area on the rock as possible , not less.overall, keens are as good as any except some of the climbing rubber shoes, which because the rubber is softer, will wear out faster.

[Chaco Taco]

+1 for Merrell Moab GTX and the regular ventilators. Have put over 800 miles on both shoes through Virginia and into the Vermont. They are a good shoe for the terrain. Still don't get the slipping with Keen's. I mean just like any other shoes, there is a break in period with the Targhee's and Voyageurs. Climbed Katahdin in a pair that got broken in through the 100 Miles and the grip was awesome. Im actually planning on using the Targhee II on my E2E of the Long Trail this summer. Great shoe

[Hoofit]

Another Keen fan here - picked up some old ones out of a hiker box and they did just fine for several hundred miles. And I'm a bit of a heavy dude!
Now I have a new pair(mid height Targee 11 to help with the rocks in Penn!) and so far, really liking them too.
For us wide footed folk, they feel so darn comfy!
I have to say though that I have only hiked in them in the later Spring/summer months and had no traction problems at all.
What else is out there that has such a nice wide toebox?
And for around $130.00?

[MissMagnolia]

never tried it, but it probably wouldnt help. you want as much surface area on the rock as possible , not less.overall, keens are as good as any except some of the climbing rubber shoes, which because the rubber is softer, will wear out faster.

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking that making cuts would allow the lugs to separate a little and therefore create more surface. I'll spare the lugs on my boots then and just save them for snow. :)

[Amanita]

the sticky rubber is only part of the equation, the other part is surface area,. as mentioned above , they usually have very shallow lugs for more surface area, but then you've got issues with mud and snow, so you try to find a happy medium. Im still looking.

I really don't think that's accurate. Force of friction = coefficient of friction * normal force. From this basic physics equation you can see that surface area actually doesn't affect the force of friction. Changing the lug pattern will help if there are irregularities for the lugs to catch on, but on "smooth" (or close) rock the lugs or lack there of would theoretically have no impact.

[leaftye]

I really don't think that's accurate. Force of friction = coefficient of friction * normal force. From this basic physics equation you can see that surface area actually doesn't affect the force of friction. Changing the lug pattern will help if there are irregularities for the lugs to catch on, but on "smooth" (or close) rock the lugs or lack there of would theoretically have no impact.

Understanding friction isn't straightforward with rubber.

[hikerboy57]

Hikerboy, are you still going to use the keens on your thru? I was just curious if you changed your mind or not. I'm going to give Oboz a trial run this summer.definitely. what i found is that they get grippier as they get worn. when theyre new the bottoms seem to sluip a bit more, but theyre so far the only shoes that i can hike 15+ miles in and my feet dont hurt.unfortunastely, it looks like im oonly going out for a month this spring, hopefully another in the summer, due to some personal issues, all good. my daughters pregnant,due in may and my other daughter that i have been estranged from for 3 years is now talking to me again. my mom just had a heart scare, and its just not a good time for me to be out to long, id rather be there for them.Back to the boots.theyre comfortable as any ive worn right out of the box.i used merrills this past summer, decided ill keep em for day hikes, wear the keens for backpacking.

[hikerboy57]

I really don't think that's accurate. Force of friction = coefficient of friction * normal force. From this basic physics equation you can see that surface area actually doesn't affect the force of friction. Changing the lug pattern will help if there are irregularities for the lugs to catch on, but on "smooth" (or close) rock the lugs or lack there of would theoretically have no impact. this goes against everything ive learned rock climbing. the more surface area on the rock, the more secure the grip.otherwise youd see plenty of approach shoes with lugs.there are differences in the rubber used in climbing shoes depending on the terrrain and techniques needed for a particullar application.some shoes are specially manufactured for slab climbing, with smearing being a very basic climbing technique.

[Dumplings]

The Targhee II fell apart n me. The rubber began peeling away from the boot in < 200 miles. I called the company up and they told me they wouldn't recommend the Targhee II for long distance hiking.

[Chaco Taco]

The Targhee II fell apart n me. The rubber began peeling away from the boot in < 200 miles. I called the company up and they told me they wouldn't recommend the Targhee II for long distance hiking.
Thats weird that a hiking shoe company would say that about their product when so many long distance hikers have purchased them

[Dumplings]

Thats weird that a hiking shoe company would say that about their product when so many long distance hikers have purchased them

Told me to buy a more expensive boot, but they'd credit me with the cost of the first. I believe the CSR said I would be happier with a "Sturdier boot ... for what you're doing." which was longer section hikes.

Additional if you read some reviews around the web you'll find other people that had problems with the black knubs flaking off.

[Chaco Taco]

Told me to buy a more expensive boot, but they'd credit me with the cost of the first. I believe the CSR said I would be happier with a "Sturdier boot ... for what you're doing." which was longer section hikes.

Additional if you read some reviews around the web you'll find other people that had problems with the black knubs flaking off.

Yea I read some of the reviews. Its going to happen with most trail runners and non-boot hiking shoe. Happened to my Merrell's, just use shoe goo, solved my problem. The truth is, the Targhee II won't get you to Maine, neither will Merrell's, they are all going to fall apart eventually. I do think that starting in Ga with a "boot" may be the right choice for you but I think its overkill for the southern AT. I find that boots for long distance hiking spells blisters. I have worn out a few pairs of Merrell's and Keens and will continue to do so.

[Janeway]

I love my Asolo TPS 520 which I've found to be very comfortable and after some pretty long hikes this past summer, wearing thick merino hiking socks, not even a hint of a blister or overheated feet. I decided I'd trade off weight for ankle protection and water proofness. And they are darn comfortable. But, they too have almost killed me. Turns out they are very slippery on wet rocks. I've gone down three times creek crossing and now I'm extremely careful. This has left me with a deeply uneasy feeling that I'm going to get hurt badly because of these boots slipping on wet rocks and probably wet roots, etc. I've just purchased and in the process of breaking in the Oboz Wind River boot. It seems comfortable and I've noticed the sole feels stickier than the Asolo, but I'll have to wait until I can field test them. Backpacking boots (or trail runners, or whatever) are so critical to the whole trek, that I really wish I could do a search for "best backpacking boots for traction on wet rocks" and then break it down to what fits. I noticed on the description of the Stablicers they are used by fly fisherman for traction on wet rocks, but even though that sounds like it might work, not practical for all the stream crossing I can expect. Can anyone wearing the Oboz Wind River testify for how well it does on wet rocks? And can anyone suggest what boot has proven to be good on wet rocks? For now I think I'm going to start out with my Asolos because of their proven comfort and have the Oboz on standby. But I'm still worried.

[MNBackpacker]

I love my Targhees. I feel they ofer great traction, are by fay the most comfortable, and love the toe protection. They do wear fast though. I think that is their biggest downside.

[snifur]

i wore my Keens from GA to ME. went through 3 pair and 3 different sizes along the way. best hiking shoe i ever wore.

[dornstar]

Loved my Targhees as well.

Unfortunately, I was stupid after my last set wore out and replaced them with Merrell Refuge Core Mids which have given me blisters on my last two hikes.

[Rif]

Love my Targhees too. I went one size larger than my normal size and have yet to get a blister or hot spot. The super soft cushiony inner allows me to secure my foot and I never jam my toes on the downhills. I am borderling between and medium and wide width and these feel fine.

I did also find the sole a bit slippery on wet rocks though. At a few stream crossings I was glad I had my trekking poles when rock hopping across. One could easily take a nasty spill with these on wet rock. For everything else they are great.

I tried the Voyager mid as well and it just does not feel as good. the should be nearly identical in last and cut but the Voyager just seems stiffer. I also tried the Targhee shoe and had trouble with my heel staying in place. Luckiy I was able to tell the other would noty work while on the rug indoors so back they went. I'll stick with Targhee Mids when I need replacements.