beer can alchohol Vs. whisperlite gas stoves

[n9643750]

I just built a couple of beer can alchohol stoves from some plans off of the internet, and found that the amount of fuel it takes to boil water is nearly twice as much as with an msr whisperlite. It seems to me that the weight saved on the stove is easily replaced by the extra fuel you have to carry. Comments?

[Dances with Mice]

I just built a couple of beer can alchohol stoves from some plans off of the internet, and found that the amount of fuel it takes to boil water is nearly twice as much as with an msr whisperlite. It seems to me that the weight saved on the stove is easily replaced by the extra fuel you have to carry. Comments?

How much water were you boiling?

[weary]

I just built a couple of beer can alchohol stoves from some plans off of the internet, and found that the amount of fuel it takes to boil water is nearly twice as much as with an msr whisperlite. It seems to me that the weight saved on the stove is easily replaced by the extra fuel you have to carry. Comments?
It really depends on how elaborate your cooking is likely to be. But I think your concerns are legitimate.

Twenty-five years ago, I used a commercial alcohol stove. I switched first to a Svea. Then a Whisperlight. And from time to time to canister stoves. I now pretty much am committed to a Zip woodburning stove, which has no real negatives, just imaginary negatives.

Weary

[JoeHiker]

I like the idea of a woodburning stove but how do you deal with rainy conditions? Where do you get dry wood?

[Peaks]

I just built a couple of beer can alchohol stoves from some plans off of the internet, and found that the amount of fuel it takes to boil water is nearly twice as much as with an msr whisperlite. It seems to me that the weight saved on the stove is easily replaced by the extra fuel you have to carry. Comments?

Sgt Rock has done some serious study on fuel consumption. But, to answer your question, the weight of extra fuel all depends on how much fuel you carry, which is a function of how much cooking you do, and how often you resupply.
The typical thru-hiker usually just boils 2 cups of water for dinner. That doesn't take a lot of alcohol. And, the typical thru-hiker usually resupplies every 3 to 4 days. So, that's why the alcohol makes sense for a thru-hiker.

[SGT Rock]

I just built a couple of beer can alchohol stoves from some plans off of the internet, and found that the amount of fuel it takes to boil water is nearly twice as much as with an msr whisperlite. It seems to me that the weight saved on the stove is easily replaced by the extra fuel you have to carry. Comments?

Only if you talk start weight. Your MSR Whisperlite with fuel bottle and no fuel weighs something like 21 ounces. A good alcohol stove, stand, windscreen and 20 ounce fuel bottle is about 3 ounces. Now add 20 ounce of alcohol and bring the alcohol stove up to 19 ounces (an ounce of alcohol weighs about .8 ounces) and take the MSR and add 10 ounces of fuel and you get to 28 ounces (gas weighs about .7 ounces per ounce). Alcohol has about half the BTUs per ounce as gas, so 10 ounces of gas = about 20 ounces alcohol. Start weight is very close on those two. But half way through your trip the gas stove still weighs 24 ounces, and the alcohol stove only weighs 11 ounces. At the end of your trip the empty alcohol stove only weighs 3 ounces, and your gas stove still weighs 21 ounces.

So sure your start weights may be close, but the average weight you carry every day will end up lower. And the alcohol stove in this example isn't the lightest possible or the most fuel efficient out there.

[weary]

I like the idea of a woodburning stove but how do you deal with rainy conditions? Where do you get dry wood?
Well, I always keep a few dry twigs in my pocket or in my pack, since I don't carry a fire starter. Look for dry, but not rotten wood. Rain on good solid dry wood is mostly just surface moisture. With a little dry wood, a bit of scrap newspaper or fire starter to get it going, wet wood burns with no problem.

I keep my eye out for downed birch limbs. Birch bark will start most anything burning. Otherwise, look for dead branches at the botton of soft wood trees, fir, spruce or pine trees. Usually, also, someone has left some dry wood scraps under shelters.

I've been using a Zip Stove for close to 20 years. Never yet has it failed to start, regardless of rain conditions.

Weary

[Nightwalker]

Well, I always keep a few dry twigs in my pocket or in my pack, since I don't carry a fire starter. Look for dry, but not rotten wood. Rain on good solid dry wood is mostly just surface moisture. With a little dry wood, a bit of scrap newspaper or fire starter to get it going, wet wood burns with no problem.
(snip)
Weary
Also, don't forget good old fire cotton. Take a film canister, some cotton balls, and some vaseline. Rub vaseline into cotton balls one at a time and fill up your film canister. They burn HOT for about 2 minutes. A canister full makes around 25 fires.

Cool, eh?

[cutman11]

Sgt Rock, your conclusion seems correct but let me give u the real data on the whisperlite. I know, cause i've got one, and have been following your data threads closely re: alcohol stoves trying to decide whether or not to abandon my whisperlite. The stove, pump, windscreen and bic lighter weigh 14oz. The 11oz fuel bottle empty weighs 2.7 oz. One oz of gas weighs .77oz, and should heat 7.25 cups of water(29qts per 16 oz). I typically go 4 days between resupply, and heat 2 cups of water per day, so would need just under one oz of gas, weight 1oz. I usually carry double that in event cant resupply the gas that often, so figure 2oz gas wt. Total starting wt=14+2.7+2= 18.7, end wt 16.7. You still would have it beat with a 3 oz stove, 2oz fuel bottle, 4oz fuel, 1oz for lighter/windscreen=10oz start wt, 6oz finish wt. Difference of avg wt carried = 9.7oz. Only issues for me is reliability, ease of starting in cold temps, and of course, I already have the whisperlite. 9.7 oz seems like a fair amt of difference, but then, I am carrying a 44oz thermarest, so maybe if I'm concerned about weight that much, I should start there instead of worrying about the 9oz stove diff. LOL Anyhow, appreciate your scientific approach to the whole stove analysis issue.:clap

[SGT Rock]

Well, if you think about reliability, there are no lines to leak, jets to clog, seals to fail, pumps to operate, etc, etc. You probably already have an alcohol stove, you just need a pair of scissors or a knife to coax it out of it's shell :D

As to saving a bunch of weight, if you are going to do it, you have to start somewhere, why not in one of the cheapest places to do it? :bse

Anyway. My newest stove is 0.9 ounces with stand and windscreen, the Scripto lighter is 0.7 ounces, the fuel bladder is 0.8 ounces, so 2.4 ounces + 1.5 ounces fuel per day or 6 ounces for 4 days, because I like two hots a day plus some extra for more tea or coffee. So my total start weight is 7.2 ounces with an average weight of 4.8 ounces. I'm also working on a simmer system that can be added to my stove while it is cooking for an extra 0.03 ounces.And the newest stove can be snuffed if you hit boil early so you can pour the fuel back into the container :banana

[MileMonster]

Another consideration, if you're counting fuel weight/day is that it is really hard to use the last 2-3 oz of fuel in the Whisperlite fuel bottle. That means that if you will require 10 oz of fuel on your trip, you have to start with 12-13. I've seen alot of hikers doing some craetive bottle-leaning trying to get the last few oz of fuel in their bottle to burn.

[cutman11]

ya, the key there is making sure that little straw in the bottle is on the bottom of the bottle and the pressure is pumped up. No doubt Im headed for ur alky set up Sgt Rock, its just a matter of time and getting over the separation anxiety/depression of giving up on the whisperlite, considering ive had no problems with it the first 800+miles ive done and I like the consistant ability to "turn it up" and fire the hell outta the pan o water to get that boil just a few seconds faster.LOL

[SGT Rock]

Just like a microwave LOL. I think that is one reason folks think they need boiling water in 2 minutes instead of 5.

[cutman11]

yep, nothin, I mean nothin, Beats crankin up the whisperlite to full blast(noise included), sooting the bottom of the pan, and making a general mess just to get that cup o hot cocoa done 30 seconds before them thar camo wearin, alky carryin, 30mile hikin thrus LOL....and havin a banana with it too :banana

[SGT Rock]

I bet you are one of those guys that always offer to heat water for me when I pop out my alcohol stove. I can see the worry on their face when I am starting to heat water and my pot isn't foaming 3 minutes later. I used to turn it down, but now I am considering letting guys like that feel superior just so I don't have to do it myself. I figure if it makes them feel better and I save some fuel, everyone comes out ahead.

But then again I'll probably hear Mt Dew talking about the moochin ultralighters :bse

[cutman11]

LOL ...Sgt Rock, nah, Im the guy watchin u fire up the alky and after askin a few questions about your stove that weighs next to nothin, askin myself, why the heck dont I give up this darn whisperlite and get the real "alky lite" instead....then I go home and put the stuff away for the season and the son asks, Dad, when are u gonna make that pepsi can stove you have the directions for...its way cooler than that mechanical crap u got at the hikin store a few years back...

[Mountain Dew]

Sgt. Rock....When on my thru-hike in 2003 I once had to use my can stove as a heater because I had been caught in a pouring rain with temps in the low 40's. Being from Texas I hate the cold and tend to stay that way for prolonged periods. Once in my tent I decided to try something that had been in my head for a while. I placed my can stove into my 1.2 liter pot and then placed that inside my pot cozy that I bought from Antigravitygear.com. A few ounces of denatured and yes, I had a tent heater. I simply ate without cooking that night and used what fuel I had left to get warm. I might add that i knew that the next town was close and that I could afford to burn the fuel for heat.

Moral of the story... I bet you can't do that with a whisperlite !!! :banana

[foodbag]

Burn times, efficiency and stove/fuel weight and all of that aside, how many of you have ever had the experience of trying to field-strip a non-functioning Whisperlite in the pouring rain on a 40 degree day after slogging all day up and down a 5,000 footer in the fog? And you're hungry and near hypothermic and you dropped the little parts in the mud and you've spent and hour and the dayum thing just won't light and it worked fine yesterday and AAAARRRRGH is what I say to that LOL.

My undying gratitude to all of them tinkerers out there who invented, reinvented and kept on reinventing the Pepsi can stove. This former gear-head thanks you from the bottom of his stomach! :jump

[SGT Rock]

Hey MD,

I made something similar at the National Training center. It was a candel lantern/tent heater. It was a very cold January in the Mojave, so I took a coffee can and turned it sideways. I then took some shiny aluminum foil and made sure the inside was goodand reflective, then put a dent on the new bottom for a candel. The heat from the candel would reach the top and turn the can into a big radiator as well as a good light for reading. I bet you could do the same thing with an alcohol stove.