Ultralight Gear List

[The Solemates]

Ok gearheads, this is your chance to shine. I would like to try to start weeding down my gear to try and get somewhat ultralight. Right now my summer hiking weight is around 23 lbs (which includes 3 days of food and water). My winter weight is around 34 lbs (3 days food/water). I would like a list of only the lightest possible gear pieces/combos that are on the market today. Please list all specific info you have on the gear, including brand name, type, weight, color, internet links, reviews, pros, cons, sizing, etc. Be as specific as possible.

I will start with two items (both of which I do not have and have only read about):

PACK
Fanatic Fringe Thompson Peak Frameless Backpack w/ hipbelt
http://www.fanaticfringe.com/page5.html
11 oz.
up to 3600 cu in
comes in green or tan
sizes 13"-21" torso
Excellent Review: http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Packs/Frameless%20Backpacks%20and%20Day%20Packs/Fanatic%20Fringe%20Thompson%20Peak%20Pack/Rick%20Allnutt%20III/Long%20Term%20Report/

SLEEPING BAG
The North Face Beeline 900
http://www.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?productId=48
30 deg down bag
21 oz (size L-up to 6'6")
grey/blue color
900 down fill
zipperless
sizes reg or long
no reivew available

[The Weasel]

1) Are those weights "from the skin out," i.e. including all items you are wearing/carrying? Don't forget things like hat, glasses/hearing aids, pocket items/wallets, belts, etc.

2) Have you read Jardine?

The Weasel

[The Solemates]

1) Are those weights "from the skin out," i.e. including all items you are wearing/carrying? Don't forget things like hat, glasses/hearing aids, pocket items/wallets, belts, etc.

2) Have you read Jardine?

The Weasel

1) Im talking about individual gear items.

2) Yea Ive read that crazy book.

[The Weasel]

Sole --

1) yeah, it's crazy, but it started the movement, more or less. (So does Ex-Lax, I know.) And it makes you think.

2) FSO weight really matters if you're going for ultralight, since those things don't get weighed with your pack, usually, but "worn" items (and pocket contents) can weigh several pounds, exclusive of boots, which distorts what you think you're carrying.

3) If you get totally anal, as I can be, you really WILL remove labels and such from clothing and gear (doesn't void warranties...I've returned stuff). I weighed all the removed label materials before I started by hike in '00 and such things amounted to a little better than 3 oz.

The Weasel

[chris]

I'd refer you to the Sample AT Gear List I put up, but you've already seen it. I'm assuming you're looking to break the 10 pound mark (mine comes in a little under 12). Here is the link anyways for others who might have missed it.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7351

If you want the absolute lightest, I would take a look at:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00234.html

Or, if you buy a subscription, they have a link for breaking the 5 pound barrier.

Or, take a look at

http://members.tripod.com/gohike/pct.html

This is Dave Brock's sub 10 pound PCT gear list, with some analysis. I like his list alot as he doesn't use a lot of fancy things. Just the right things.

[hungryhowie]

I prefer to make much of my own gear, so I can't help you with some things (unless you want to make the same stuff :D ), but here's my gearlist

Big 4
shelter: homemade hammock - 16oz
bag: homemade down quilt - 18oz
pad: homemade down underquilt - 10oz
pack: Golite Breeze - 12oz

note: neither the hammock nor the underquilt exist in their final forms as of yet :)

Sub total: 3lbs 8oz

Cookware
Titan Kettle - 4oz
Titan Spoon – 0.5oz
Tuna can stove - 1oz
Lighter – 1oz
Windscreen – 1oz
Platypus 8oz flask – 1oz

Sub total: 9oz

Water
100oz Camelbak reservoir – 4oz
1L Platypus bottle – 1oz
Aqua Mira – 3oz

Sub total: 8oz

Clothing
Expedition Weight Capilene Top – 8oz
Expedition Weight Capilene Pants – 8oz
MontBell Ultralight down inner jacket – 8oz
Powerstretch Balaclava – 2oz
Powerstretch Gloves – 2oz
Silnylon Rain Jacket – 4oz
Silnylon Rain Pants – 3oz
Silnylon Rain Mitts – 0.25oz

note: I just got some DriDucks rainwear to test out for a while, but it weighs the same as the silnylon rain wear.

Sub total: 35oz

Personals
Ziplock wallet – 2oz
1st aid (ace bandage, band-aids, gauze, Neosporin, alcohol prep pads) – 2oz
Repair kit (dental floss, needle) – 0.25oz
Hygiene (tooth brush, paste, comb) - 1oz
Swiss army knife 1.5oz

Sub total: 7oz

Total weight: 7.1 pounds

It's not a bad list for me. Personally, I don't buy into that whole skin out weight. It just doesn't make sense to me. I can't remember the last time that my body became so used to walking around naked that my 4oz nylon hiking shorts became a burden. If anything, it ought to subtract weight from the heavy jeans and keys that I have to carry around with me every day. That and my NB running shoes weigh less than my Merrell jungle mocs....

Anyway, take it all with a grain of salt.

-howie

[chris]

The idea of FSO weight is that you have to use energy to move the things you are wearing also. For example, if you strap silnylon bags to your legs and stuff them with gear, you could achieve a basweight of 1.25 lbs. You'd still have to move 8.5 lbs of stuff.

[cutman11]

Right Chris, but I think Howie's point is that it is less weight when wearing hiking shorts than when wearing blue jeans around the house, so why would that ADD weight for determining expended energy when hiking over and above the baseline at home just walking around. Perhaps the best measure would be to step on the scale in your normal everyday clothes and shoes etc, then change into hiking gear with full pack loaded and get on the scale again. The difference between the two weights would be the true "skin out" weight ADDED over and above the base weight our body is used to carrying around daily. Cotton clothes here at home with shoes ect add about 5 lb to a male's (XL size) "skin weight", so maybe you gotta spot me the first few lbs.;)

[The Weasel]

The advantage to using a "FSO" weight is that it permits true comparisons. Some people brag - not totally inappropriately - about having achieved "13 pounds" but don't include food or fuel or water, since those deplete over time. Others do the same, but are wearing big honking hiking boots, not sneakers. And once in a while, there's someone like my daughter going into the Peace Corps a few years ago after being told, "one suitcase of 44 lbs and what you are wearing" proceeded to get a safari jacket with another 40 lbs in it.

Some of this directly matters for packweight, too. I might have sandals, for days when those are nice, which means my pack weight changes. Hats come off, long shirts go on, and so forth. About the only "true" way to know what someone is walking with is to pack you pack, add a stated amount of supplies (or none, and say so), and put what you would wear the first day in a small plastic grocery bag, and put it all on the scale.

That permits others to compare apples to apples. Me, when determining my FSO weight, I include consumables, but in my own mind I then calculate them at 1/2 their actual weight (when I'm telling others, I disclose that) since that is the average weight of consumables over a trek's time (I assume I'll eat every frigging bite I'm carrying!).

[erichlf]

The clothes I wear while hiking are much lighter than those I wear when at home. So it in actuallity when I hike I lose weight off my body, and gain in the pack. But, then there is the point of heavy boots and what not. It is really hard to compare weight between hikers. Also, you have to consider how much the ratio of the weight they are carrying and that of ones body weight. Look at my wife for instance, she weighs 100lbs and carries about 7.5lbs in pack (no food I carry most of that to be fair). While I weigh about 145lbs and carry 8lbs (no food). So comparitively our base weight no food is skewed and she carries more weight, but once you add in food I am then carrying more weight at first.

[Singletrack]

I have to agree with Howie. My clothes I wear at home are alot heavier than the clothes I wear on the trail. The "skin out" thing seems a ittle bit silly to me. As a matter of fact, the "skin out" thing was started by two nudist hikers, that live at a nudist colony South of Cleveland, Ga. I can understand why they use "skin out", but the rest of us that wear clothes everyday? Well, at least I do.

[chris]

When you are at home, you are generally not trying to hike 15 miles, with a lot of elevation changes.

I'm not a big fan of FSO weight as, except for shoes and perhaps trekking poles, the weight variations in clothing are not that great.

In the end, a few ounces here or there, or even a pound or two extra on your back, isn't going to make a big deal. I used to be more Nazi-esque in regard to weights, but a few summers worth of treks has alleviated me of my burden. Yes, that was a pun.

[erichlf]

Howie is my hero. I wish I did all that homemade gear stuff when I was 19. Hell, I don't really have the time now. Not that I am old. 27 is not old, but my bones tell me differently.lol

[neo]

Ok gearheads, this is your chance to shine. I would like to try to start weeding down my gear to try and get somewhat ultralight. Right now my summer hiking weight is around 23 lbs (which includes 3 days of food and water). My winter weight is around 34 lbs (3 days food/water). I would like a list of only the lightest possible gear pieces/combos that are on the market today. Please list all specific info you have on the gear, including brand name, type, weight, color, internet links, reviews, pros, cons, sizing, etc. Be as specific as possible.

I will start with two items (both of which I do not have and have only read about):

PACK
Fanatic Fringe Thompson Peak Frameless Backpack w/ hipbelt
http://www.fanaticfringe.com/page5.html
11 oz.



up to 3600 cu in
comes in green or tan
sizes 13"-21" torso
Excellent Review: http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Packs/Frameless%20Backpacks%20and%20Day%20Packs/Fanatic%20Fringe%20Thompson%20Peak%20Pack/Rick%20Allnutt%20III/Long%20Term%20Report/

SLEEPING BAG
The North Face Beeline 900
http://www.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?productId=48
30 deg down bag
21 oz (size L-up to 6'6")
grey/blue color
900 down fill
zipperless
sizes reg or long
no reivew available


i have a fanatic fringe thompson peak pack with hip belt,i removed the hip belt,the pack wieghed 9.2 oz at the post office,i am going to have the extension collar shortened by 5 inches,its a great pack but the hip belt and extension collar not needed for my needs:sun neo

[The Solemates]

i have a fanatic fringe thompson peak pack with hip belt,i removed the hip belt,the pack wieghed 9.2 oz at the post office,i am going to have the extension collar shortened by 5 inches,its a great pack but the hip belt and extension collar not needed for my needs:sun neo

Neo, would it be possible to put a full-length (72") Z-Rest (or similar rolled pad, but I own the Z-Rest so Im curious about this as well) in the Thompson Peak and still have room for gear? I cant seem to graduate to a 3/4 length as I am a tall hiker and it hits me around the hips. My entire legs hang off and I cant stand it unless its really warm out.

[chris]

... I cant seem to graduate to a 3/4 length as I am a tall hiker and it hits me around the hips. My entire legs hang off and I cant stand it unless its really warm out.

Being 6'4", I had this same problem, but have found a way to use a 3/4 length pad.

Position the top of the pad at the base of your neck or the shoulder blades. This should get the pad down to below the rump. Now, make a pillow out of your clothes bag. This keeps your head and neck off the ground. Put the rest of the squishy stuff in the pack, and then put the pack under your feet (lengthwise if you don't have much squishy stuff). Works well and it keeps most of your lower body off of the ground.

[-MYST-]

aluminum soda/beer can alcohol stove, the lighest stove there is, bare none.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5161928361&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

If you are switching from a whitegas stove you can save upwards of a pound or more. But you sound like you already know about alcohol can stoves.

Myst
AT Thru-Hiker
Ga->ME'04

[The Solemates]

Being 6'4", I had this same problem, but have found a way to use a 3/4 length pad.

Position the top of the pad at the base of your neck or the shoulder blades. This should get the pad down to below the rump. Now, make a pillow out of your clothes bag. This keeps your head and neck off the ground. Put the rest of the squishy stuff in the pack, and then put the pack under your feet (lengthwise if you don't have much squishy stuff). Works well and it keeps most of your lower body off of the ground.

I guess I could give it a shot, but my typical practice uses my pack as a pillow because I dont usually have any "squishy" stuff in order to make a pillow out of since I carry a lighter weight bag and just wear clothes (ie, "squishy stuff") to bed. Man thats a run-on.

[The Solemates]

aluminum soda/beer can alcohol stove, the lighest stove there is, bare none.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5161928361&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

If you are switching from a whitegas stove you can save upwards of a pound or more. But you sound like you already know about alcohol can stoves.

Myst
AT Thru-Hiker
Ga->ME'04

Yea nice plug.

[SGT Rock]

FSO Weights:

GRAND TOTAL (summer) 496.5oz/31.03lbs
GRAND TOTAL (spring/fall) 534.9oz/33.43lbs
GRAND TOTAL (winter) 569.5oz/35.59lbs

This includes clothing and gear carried and worn, 5 days food, 38 ounces of water, 10.5 ounces of fuel, and 16 ounces of adult beverages. Otherwise my dry FSO is:

TOTAL (- food & water) 270.7oz/16.92lbs
TOTAL (spring/fall - food & water) 329.2oz/19.33lbs
TOTAL (winter - food & water) 343.7oz/21.49lbs

-------Edit-------------

Since the original question was about pack weight,I'll break it down a little:

Pack Weights:
TOTAL (summer) 417.2oz/26.07lbs
TOTAL (spring/fall) 455.6oz/28.48lbs
TOTAL (winter) 490.2oz/30.64lbs

And the worn/carried stuff:
CLOTHING (WORN) 79.3oz/4.96lbs

[The Weasel]

Sarge:

1) Can you cut-and-paste those weights with the gear list that goes with them?
2) Is that fuel use based on two cooked meals a day? Or one? If breakfast is oatmeal and coffee (or equivalents) do you think you're a little fuel heavy? I recall you being pretty precise on the amount of AlOH needed per meal, so I'm assuming this is a precise number plus a little safety fudge.
3) How viciously anal have you been on weight-stripping the gear that's in the list-to-be-produced? In other words, would Ray Jardine admire the lack of labels, due to your scraping the paint off and cutting one-half of the bristles off your short-handled toothbrush? Or is this a little more mellow than that?

I think I've gotten down to around 14 lbs, but haven't checked recently.

The Weasel

[SGT Rock]

Sarge:

1) Can you cut-and-paste those weights with the gear list that goes with them?

Yes, it will take some time to clean it up since it comes out of a spread sheet to make it a little cleaner.



2) Is that fuel use based on two cooked meals a day? Or one? If breakfast is oatmeal and coffee (or equivalents) do you think you're a little fuel heavy? I recall you being pretty precise on the amount of AlOH needed per meal, so I'm assuming this is a precise number plus a little safety fudge.

Fuel is based on two hots a day plus extra for hot drinks at my discretion, plus a 10% fudge factor. My stove does this consistently on 1.5 fluid ounces a day :D

To be more specific, since I usually do, the breakfast meal requires 12ml to make 1 pint of water at 200 degrees, perfect for coffee and grits. Dinner requires 15ml to heat a pint to boil and simmer for about 1 minute before going to the cozy, I am currently prototyping a simmer ring that should triple the simmer time (at least) and add only a gram of stove weight. I carry an extra 12ml of fuel for making another pint of hot water for coffee or tea. That is 39ml. I plan another 5ml as a fudge factor, so total is 44ml or 1.5 fluid ounces.



3) How viciously anal have you been on weight-stripping the gear that's in the list-to-be-produced? In other words, would Ray Jardine admire the lack of labels, due to your scraping the paint off and cutting one-half of the bristles off your short-handled toothbrush? Or is this a little more mellow than that?

I am more mellow. There are still some labels on my stuff, I am not cutting the margins off my maps or removing bristles from my toothbrush (the Handel is a little shorter, but that is to make it fit in the bag) or scraping paint off stuff, or making body outlines on my pad so I can't budge a millimeter or such. I am VERY comfortable and I even carry a luxury item - a digital FM radio!

I'll try to get a readable list up tonight.

[fantasmagris]

If i remember correctly that TNF bag is a high loft half zip. I own (one of four diff bags) a 30F synthetic half zip bag, but it has a foot vent. But for that foot zip it would not work for me. IMO half zips limit the comfort range of the bag considerably. There comes a point when weight saving designs begin to backfire in the real world of use. I would NOT own a bag with a half zip unless it was like a 55F liner or something.

;)

[The Weasel]

Sarge:

As one of the old-timers here, to our true mentor of the forum...can you pass this to AT Troll and others as a useful idea?

Can't we have a "files" upload area, where things like your spreadsheet can be uploaded (or do we?). That would be a VERY useful thing to have; I'd start with your spreadsheet and modify it for my gear. The same with instructions on making gear: They could "sit" there for anyone to download. Am I missing something?

The Weasel

[SGT Rock]

1. SUMMER (50+) CLOTHING.......................grams.....Oz.....#. ....Total
Wigwam C-T Tour Socks.............................24.0.......0.85. ..2......1.7
Equinox sil nylon stuff sack (8x18)................36.0.......1.27...1......1.3
Wal-Mart Microfiber underwear.....................46.0.......1.63...1. .....1.6
Dufold Coolmax long sleeve Zip-T - Army.......213.0.......7.53...1......7.5
TOTAL............................................. .....................................12.1

2. RAIN GEAR...........................................gra ms.....Oz.....#.....Total
Packa rain parka......................................317.0.. ....11.20...1.....11.2
gortex mittens - OR rain mittens..................33.0........1.17...1..... ..1.2
ProVent Pants w/tyvek butt patch..............159.0.......5.62....1.......5.6
Seal Skin socks.........................................98.0 .......3.46....1.......3.5
TOTAL............................................. .....................................21.4

3. SPRING/FALL (30 to 50) CLOTHING............grams.....Oz.....#.....Total
Arc'Teryx Powerstretch Pants.......................228.0.....8.06...1.... ...8.1
REI Powerstretch Shirt................................264.0.....9.3 3...1.......9.3
Wigwam hiking socks....................................74.0..... 2.61...1.......2.6
Wigwam knit hat..........................................69.0. ....2.44...1......2.4
Wigwam glove liners.....................................31.0... ..1.10...1......1.1
TOTAL............................................. ....................................23.5

4. WINTER (0 to 30) CLOTHING......................grams.....Oz.....#.. ...Total
Wigwam heavy wool socks.............................93.0......3.29.. .1......3.3
OR P300 mittens..........................................5 2.0......1.84...1......1.8
polypro neck gaiter......................................59.0.. .....2.08...1......2.1
Modified Army Field Pants............................200.0.......7.07. ..1......7.1
Kennebec Insulated Pullover.........................275.0.......9.72. ..1......9.7
TOTAL............................................. ......................................24.0

5. KITCHEN........................................... ......grams.....Oz.....#.....Total
Plastic Spoon............................................. ..10.0......0.35...1......0.4
Pot cozy.............................................. .......25.0......0.88...1......0.9
Evernew 0.9L Ultralight Pot...........................114.0......4.03...1. .....4.0
ION stove with Ti pot stand and windscreen......27.0......0.95...1......1.0
Scripto Lighter........................................... ..18.0......0.64...1......0.6
.5L collapsible bottle....................................22.0.... ..0.78...1......0.8
Bottle (12oz) - oil.........................................27.0.. ....0.95...1.....1.0
coffee bag............................................... .....9.0......0.32...1.....0.3
Gatorade bowl w/ fiberglass cozy.....................62.0......2.19...1.....2. 2
Gatorade bottle w/550 cord loop and caribeener.59.0......2.08...1.....2.1
100oz platypus - modified...............................43.0......1 .52...1.....1.5
Tabasco bottle............................................ .14.0......0.49...1.....0.5
Equinox sil stuff sack (food bag)......................42.0......1.48...1.....1 .5
Zip lock bags (1 gallon) food.............................9.0......0.32...3 .....1.0
Zip lock bags (2 gallon) food...........................21.0......0.74...3. .....2.2
coffee filter............................................ .....19.0.......0.67...1.....0.7
16 ounce alcohol bottle (drinking)....................30.0.......1.06...1. ....1.1
measuring cup............................................... 2.0.......0.07...1.....0.1
iodine tablets........................................... ....29.0.......1.02...1.....1.0
TOTAL............................................. ..................................... 22.7

6. MISC.............................................. ......grams.....Oz.....#.....Total
first aid/repair kit & batteries........................124.0.....4.38... 1......4.4
64 Meg data card..........................................2.0. ....0.07...1......0.1
Equinox red sil-nylon sack.............................17.0......0.60... 1......0.6
emergency fire starter..................................27.0..... .0.95...1.....1.0
Zip lock bags (1/2 gallon)...............................7.0......0.2 5...1.....0.2
Ultrapod camera tripod.................................49.0......1 .73...1.....1.7
Smartek 3.1 MP Digital Camera w/Li batteries.155.0......5.48...1.....5.5
TOTAL............................................. ...................................13.5

7. HYGIENE........................................... ....grams.....Oz.....#.....Total
toilet paper, 6 sheets = 0.1 oz........................3.0.....0.11...12....1.3
zip lock bag (1/2 gallon).................................7.0.....0. 25...1.....0.2
Towel mitten............................................ ..22.0.....0.78...1.....0.8
1 oz Dr Bronners Mint soap and bottle.............28.0.....0.99...1.....1.0
toothbrush and paste...................................36.0.....1 .27...1.....1.3
TOTAL............................................. ....................................4.6

8. NAVIGATION/LIGHT.................................grams.....Oz .....#.....Total
zip lock bag (1 gallon)....................................9.0.... .0.32...2.....0.6
Zipka Plus Headlamp w/Lithium batteries (3).....54.0.....1.91...1.....1.9
Trail journal........................................... .....39.0.....1.38...1.....1.4
Pen............................................... ...........13.0......0.46...1.....0.5
map (average weight)..................................80.0..... .2.83...3.....8.5
Guide Book Sections....................................13.0.. ....0.46...1.....0.5
Mapdanna.......................................... ........45.0......1.59...1.....1.6
TOTAL............................................. ...................................14.9

9. RUCK/SHELTER.......................................gram s.....Oz.....#.....Total
Moonbow Gearskin sil-nylon..........................636.0...22.47...1.. ...22.5
Trash Compactor bag...................................64.0.....2.2 6...1.......2.3
JRB No Sniveling Quilt.................................510.0....18. 02...1.....18.0
Equinox 7 x 15 Stuff Sack.............................30.0.....1.06...1 ......1.1
JRB shock cords..........................................18. 0.....0.64...2......1.3
Hungry Howie Down Quilt.............................501.0...17.70... 1....17.7
Stake bag and cord (50')..............................70.0.....2.47.. .1......2.5
Ti Stakes............................................ .......15.0.....0.53...4......2.1
Hennessy Tarp w/triptese line......................238.0.....8.41...1...... 8.4
Hennessy Ultralight A-Sym Hammock..............654.0....23.11...1....23.1
mesh bag............................................... ...39.0......1.38...1......1.4
TOTAL............................................. ..................................100.3

10. SPRING/FALL HAMMOCK.........................grams.....Oz.....# .....Total
Weathershield top and bottom.....................408.0....14.42...1..... .14.4
JRB Stuff Sack...........................................14. 0......0.49...1.......0.5
TOTAL............................................. ....................................14.9

11. WINTER HAMMOCK................................grams.....O z.....#.....Total
mummy cut enzolite foam pad 61.5"x28"x1/2"...272.0....9.61...1........9.6
emergency blanket groundcloth (70"x30")..........27.0....0.95...1.......1.0
TOTAL............................................. .....................................10.6

12. LUXURY ITEMS.....................................grams... ..Oz.....#.....Total
Cheap FM Radio w/lithium AAA batteries..........55.0.....1.94...1........1.9
TOTAL............................................. ......................................1.9

13. FOOD/FUEL/WATER.....total grams.....total ounces.....0z/day.....days
food...............................4584.6......... ....162.0............32.4.........5
Alcohol fuel for stove..........234.9................8.3........... ...1.50.......7
drinking alcohol 120 proof....421.7...............14.9..............3.2 0.......5
water.............................1147.8.......... .....40.6............39.0
TOTAL............................6389.0........... ..225.8

14. CLOTHING (WORN)..................................grams..... Oz.....#.....Total
NB 806 Trail running shoes.............................455.0....16.08.. .2......32.2
Minigators........................................ ............75.0......2.65...1.......2.7
Wigwam C-T Tour Socks.................................24.0......0. 85...1.......0.8
Whiteblaze wicking Shirt (Star Fit)..................160.0......5.65...1.......5. 7
Wal-Mart Microfiber underwear........................46.0......1.63... 1.......1.6
SA nylon shorts..........................................10 5.0......3.71...1.......3.7
Nike cool mesh running hat w/insignia...............90.0......3.18...1.......3. 2
ID/money/credit cards & keys.........................70.0......2.47...1... ....2.5
Scripto Lighter........................................... ..18.0......0.64...1.......0.6
Leatherman micra.........................................49.0 .....1.73...1.......1.7
Timex Expedition watch (w/electronic compass).36.0.....1.27...1.......1.3
*dog tags - Army.........................................27.0. ....0.95...1.......1.0
Ultralite Ti COR-TEC PA AS w/ rubber tips........275.0.....9.72...2.....19.4
Tape (on trekking poles)................................84.0.....2.9 7...1.......3.0
TOTAL............................................. .....................................79.3

.................................................. .......Oz.........Pounds
1. CLOTHING........................................12 .1.......0.76
2. RAIN GEAR.......................................21.4... ....1.34
3. SPRING/FALL CLOTHING......................23.5.......1.47
4. WINTER CLOTHING............................24.0.......1.5 0
5. KITCHEN..........................................2 2.7.......1.42
6. MISC.............................................. 13.5........0.84
7. HYGIENE........................................... 4.6........0.28
8. NAVIGATION/LIGHT...........................14.9........0.93
9. RUCK/SHELTER...............................100.3....... ..6.27
10. SPRING/SUMMER/FALL HAMMOCK.......14.9.........0.93
11. WINTER HAMMOCK..........................10.6.........0.66
12. LUXURY..........................................1. 9.........0.12
13. FOOD..........................................225. 8.......14.11
TOTAL (summer)................................417.2..... ..26.07
TOTAL (spring/fall).............................455.6.......28.4 8
TOTAL (winter)..................................490.2... ....30.64

DRY PACK WEIGHT:...............................Oz.........P ounds
TOTAL (- food & water)......................191.4.......11.96
TOTAL (spring/fall - food & water)........229.9.......14.37
TOTAL (winter - food & water).............264.4......16.53

.................................................. .....Oz.........Pounds
14. CLOTHING (WORN).........................79.3........4.96

FSO:.............................................. .....Oz.........Pounds
GRAND TOTAL (summer)......................496.5......31.03
GRAND TOTAL (spring/fall)...................534.9......33.43
GRAND TOTAL (winter).......................569.5.......35.59

[SGT Rock]

Sarge:

As one of the old-timers here, to our true mentor of the forum...can you pass this to AT Troll and others as a useful idea?

Can't we have a "files" upload area, where things like your spreadsheet can be uploaded (or do we?). That would be a VERY useful thing to have; I'd start with your spreadsheet and modify it for my gear. The same with instructions on making gear: They could "sit" there for anyone to download. Am I missing something?

The Weasel

There is a way. Under additional options, under the post area when you do a normal reply, there is a "Manage Attachments" selection. I could zip my spreadsheet and upload it.

[The Weasel]

That's great...but wouldn't it be just real, real neat if there were a "Files" section here? Just dreaming, of course. (I'd offer to create it, but I am NOT in the league of you guys in doing computer voodoo.)

The Weasel

[SGT Rock]

Yes that is also possible,it would just take a little more to set it up. I do have one on my site, BUT the download is old, and it is a self executable zip,and to see the on-line interactive version requires Microsloth Office installed. I am planning to take a class on Java or Flash soon so I can program an easier to use on-line version

[minnesotasmith]

1) I've finally gotten around to starting reading my copy of Jardine's book. I am finding errors in logic (and a bit of a persecution/"holier than thou" complex) mixed in with some excellent, orginal thinking on the fundamentals of hiking. An example of the errors would be his graph on page 29 illustrating his belief that if you halve your packweight, you should be able to double your daily mileage, since you are halving your energy expenditure per hiked mile.

GONG!! He completely neglects body weight as a factor here. I weigh around 230, and will likely carry a pack on my upcoming section hike (including food/water/fuel) around 44 pounds. If I halved that 44 to 22, I would reduce my total weight from 274 to 252 (neglecting clothing/footwear for simplicity), a reduction of only about 8 percent ((22 * 100)/274). I will admit in a heartbeat that my daily mileage would likely go up more than 8%; that would IMO mostly be due to reduction of cumulative daily strain on vulnerable points such as knees, ankles, and thighs more than reduced absolute energy expenditure, IMO making further nonsensical his calculations.

2) I have a real problem with the idea of going with a backpack that only weighs a pound or so. Every one I've seen (in pics on the WWW or in RL) is a tiny, flimsy thing that offers no separate compartments for organization or ability to confidently temporarily go up on total pack weight as needed. There are expendables besides one's food and drinking water that can legitimately be added to a pack, often with little or no ability to forsee needing to add them. You may want to carry some wrapped dry twigs for kindling or dry newspaper/leaves when a prolonged rain system is moving in. I mentioned elsewhere on WB tonight how adding baking soda or water to a cathole can be expected to speed breakdown of toilet paper. When you leave a town after resupply, it would be nice (especially if it is a NERO) to be able to carry some bulky, moderately heavy fresh foods for the first meal or two back on the Trail. Too, if you hit a Trail town for resupply, and an unseasonal blizzard is forecast, you would have the ability to add winter clothing you picked up there to your pack. (The same would apply to adding lots of extra food before entering a long stretch of Trail with no resupply options if you found out the Trail conditions ahead were those of a few-miles-per-day mudhole.) Then, for people either hiking in groups, or inclined to be a good Samaritan, if another hiker you wish to help becomes injured or ill, it would be IMO highly useful to have the option to go up on pack weight while carrying their gear.

Now, going light on OTHER aspects of permanent gear such as sleeping bag, tent/shelter, raingear, and such, strikes me as eminently reasonable, especially by spending the bucks to buy (or effort to make) the best WRT use/weight ratio stuff available. It just seems to me that a pack that can handle whatever I may need to ask of it is a nonnegotiable, especially for being able to complete hikes that don't go perfectly.

[erichlf]

I have a real problem with the idea of going with a backpack that only weighs a pound or so. Every one I've seen (in pics on the WWW or in RL) is a tiny, flimsy thing that offers no separate compartments for organization or ability to confidently temporarily go up on total pack weight as needed. This is what stuff sacks are for.


You may want to carry some wrapped dry twigs for kindling or dry newspaper/leaves when a prolonged rain system is moving in. I mentioned elsewhere on WB tonight how adding baking soda or water to a cathole can be expected to speed breakdown of toilet paper. When you leave a town after resupply, it would be nice (especially if it is a NERO) to be able to carry some bulky, moderately heavy fresh foods for the first meal or two back on the Trail. Solved by a large expansion collar, and many things can be carried outside of your bag.

Also, there is making your own UL pack that will deal with all those special needs of yours.

[minnesotasmith]

UL packs I have seen for sale cannot handle temporarily going up on weight much over 40 pounds, regardless of whether the weight comes from gear being placed inside the pack, or tied to the outside. I don't consider putting things in a stuff sack and carrying it in my hands for miles and miles (instead of putting it in the pack where most people would carry it) to be much of a solution, either; I use a walking stick, and alternate which hand is holding it. I also use umbrellas on occasion, so that's both hands gone right there. If I spend the money to buy a pack, I expect it to work.

As far as making a UL pack myself, I make a good living, and would prefer to use some of my earnings to buy a pack, and spend my time off hiking, rather than use up my scarce time off for learning how to sew. :-?

[bulldog49]

My list, for cool weather is:

Pack:
Granite Gear Vapor Trail 32 oz
Pack Cover 2 oz

Shelter/Sleep:
Go-Lite Lair 1 Tarp & Stakes 16 oz
Ground Cloth 4 oz
Western Mnt Ultralite Bag 25 oz
Therma Rest Pro-Lite 3 Short 13 oz


Hydration:
Pur Hiker Water Filter 11 oz
Nalgene 32 oz Wide Mouth 1 oz
Platypus Water Bucket 2.5 oz


Kitchen:
Snow Peak Giga Stove 3.25 oz
Fuel Cannister 8 oz
Snowpeak Trek 700 Pot 4.8 oz
Lexan Spoon 0.5 oz
Butane Lighter 2 oz
Wind Screen 3 oz
Soap 4 oz

Clothing in Pack:
Marmot PreCip Jacket 12 oz
Marmot PreCip Pants 6 oz
Marmot Wind Shirt 10 oz
Patagonia R.5 Shirt 3 oz
Patagonia Lt Weight Bottoms 2 oz
Smart Wool Hiking Socks 4 oz
Smart Wool Hiking Liners 2 oz
Capilene Glove Liners 0.5 oz
Nylon Gloves 2 oz
Gaiters 4 oz


Other:
Leatherman Multitool 5.2 oz
1st Aid Kit 4 oz
Parachute Cord 3 oz
Cigars 4 oz
Duct Tape 4 oz

Total Pack Wt - W/O Food & Water 197.5 oz
12.34 lbs

[ronmoak]

minnesotasmith,

You're correct that some of what Ray says is pure junk. You can safely ignore corn pasta without any ill effects.

The chart on doubling mileage by having weight is both right and wrong simultaneously. It must be understood in proper context. First it assumes the hiker is already in thru-hiker shape. If you’re not in great shape when you start out, it may take hiking a couple months to achieve. Typically thru-hikers with traditional packs weighing in at around 40 pounds hike around 15-20 miles a day on average, while hikers carrying 20 pounds cover 25-30 miles a day. Now while there are certainly exceptions to the rule. In general this follows the norms for most people.

Certainly you don’t have to go ultralight to enjoy backpacking. However, for many, going ultralight allows them too enjoy backpacking. If you spend most of your day afoot hiking the trail, then the lighter your pack the more enjoyable the journey. On the other hand if you’re more of a camper, traveling relatively short distances between campsites, then going ultralight makes less sense.

When choosing to go ultralight, you begin to prioritize your gear on the basis of how it contributes or detracts from the overall experience. For many of us, carrying 40 pounds clearly detracts from the enjoyment of walking. So you need to be willing to sacrifice some experiences in order to accentuate others. It’s all about doing what it takes to maximize your backcountry experience. Only you can decide what that experience should be.

Ron

[erichlf]

When choosing to go ultralight, you begin to prioritize your gear on the basis of how it contributes or detracts from the overall experience. For many of us, carrying 40 pounds clearly detracts from the enjoyment of walking. So you need to be willing to sacrifice some experiences in order to accentuate others. It’s all about doing what it takes to maximize your backcountry experience. Only you can decide what that experience should be. My main reason for even discovering UL was becauase I took my wife up into the Redwoods not even thinking about the fact a 30-40lb pack would be too heavy for her. I have always been in really good shape and so it never even crossed my mind, but when we got on the trail I think we made it a mile before we had to turn around. I don't like to be away from her (ahhh), and so this was a big problem for me. I would not be able to hike. So I started thinking, but I did not put everything together until I read Beyond Backpacking. Most of the techniques in that book on how to lower your weight were great ideas. But, then alot were pretty much non sense. Long story short, I have done alot to lower my wife's and my pack's base weight down to around 7 and 8 lbs respectively. FSO + Food/water/fuel weight is down to around 17 and 22 lbs respectively, and now she loves to hike. I would still like to get my wife's pack weight down, since this is 17% of her weight while mine is about 6.6% of my weight. Quite a bit skewed, but it is hard to get your weight down that much unless you have the money (and I don't, still a grad student).

[tlbj6142]

UL packs I have seen for sale cannot handle temporarily going up on weight much over 40 poundsIf you are ever carrying over 40# on the AT (3 season) you are not a lightweight or even close to an ultralight weight hiker. So, you'd never need to buy a pack that can "only" handle 40#.

And regarding pockets not being present on many lightweight and ultralightweight packs. Pockets add weight and pack complexity. Part of the LW/ULW "style" is to reduce complexity.

The worthless lid on most packs weighs 5-7oz (or more!) and only provides 300-500ci of storage. What a waste. Do they provide easy of use? No, you still have to take your pack off to access items in the lid. Is it really that much more difficult to open a drawstring on a stuff sack? No.

I for one don't like extra pockets on my packs. Side water bottle pockets (assuming you use bottles and not a bladder) are all you really need. I put small items in to 2 different stuff sacks and then just shove everything else into my pack (bag and clothing inside a pack liner). Personally, I find that stuff sacks actually take up more room than not using them. I don't even put my food into a stuff sack. I just pile it on top of my gear.

[The Solemates]

I recently came across the Mtn Hardwear Phantom 32D, which weighs in at the same as the NF Beeline 900, a mere 21 oz for size Long (or so I think). It has a 3/4 length zipper (and isnt light grey).

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/action/catalog/DisplayStyle?id=1123

I had known about these bags, but I didnt know they were this light. Anybody had any experience with these? And does a size Long really only weigh 21 oz?

[Whistler]

I recently came across the Mtn Hardwear Phantom 32D... Anybody had any experience with these? And does a size Long really only weigh 21 oz?

I've got the Phantom 45 [can't remember which length], which weighs 20.6oz. I would expect the Phantom 32 to be at least in the 24-25oz range.
-Mark

[The Solemates]

I've got the Phantom 45 [can't remember which length], which weighs 20.6oz. I would expect the Phantom 32 to be at least in the 24-25oz range.
-Mark

Yea, I suspect the 21 oz they list on their website is for a size XXXXS or something crazy. Glad to hear the actual weight from real scales.

[Kerosene]

I would still like to get my wife's pack weight down, since this is 17% of her weight while mine is about 6.6% of my weight. Quite a bit skewed, but it is hard to get your weight down that much unless you have the money (and I don't, still a grad student).A really easy way to get her pack weight down is to have you carry some of her stuff!!! :sun

[gravityman]

FSO + Food/water/fuel weight is down to around 17 and 22 lbs respectively, and now she loves to hike. I would still like to get my wife's pack weight down, since this is 17% of her weight while mine is about 6.6% of my weight. Quite a bit skewed, but it is hard to get your weight down that much unless you have the money (and I don't, still a grad student).

First, the best way to get your weight down is to get rid of stuff. This should get you to a base weight of around 20 lbs w/o food or water. You can only do so much of this. Then it is replacing gear with lighter gear. You can save a few lbs here and there, but nothing too drastic.

Second, my wife and I try to carry equal percentages of our body weights. this seems to be 16% for each of us for our March 1 start with food and water. This means I am carrying a whole lot more food than her... But what it does is make us hike a more even pace, which is really really nice.

So, take some of her stuff. I know, it's her stuff, and it feels like you are "carrying her" but in reality, you are a team, and teams help each other out. The issue that my wife and I come up against most often is I feel like she is carrying unecissary stuff, and I am getting "punished" for it. But we talk it out, decide, and then I try really hard not to throw away the extra wet wipes that I am sure we don't need (but that I will really enjoy when I need them! She's always right... sigh...)

Enjoy!

Gravity

[erichlf]

I would still like to get my wife's pack weight down, since this is 17% of her weight while mine is about 6.6% of my weight. Quite a bit skewed, but it is hard to get your weight down that much unless you have the money (and I don't, still a grad student).A really easy way to get her pack weight down is to have you carry some of her stuff!!! :sun I carry most of her stuff. When I get home I will put my list up for critiquing. The one thing is most people will scoff at the amount of water recepticals we bring, but I live in the desert, and this is where I do most of my camping, so it is necessary. I literraly carry almost all of her stuff. We are starting to Hammock camp and thus is the main reason why her bag is not down to 13 lbs including water and food. Here hammmock added 2 pounds to her pack, but she is not adept at sleeping on the ground. I am use to it. I slept on the ground for 2 yrs straight, so no big deal to me. Matter of fact I didn't start sleeping on a bed until we started dating.lol Amazing how much things change when you meet someone you love. I guess I could carry her hammock, but then I don't have room to carry all her food.

[The Solemates]

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/g6_whisper.html

FOUR OUNCE PACK!