starting gear and ideas

[gilreatr]

possible start would be late jan early feb. just starting to get stuff and was looking for ideas. sleeping bad is marmot helium 15, pack is aether 60 med pack with large argon straps, MSR hubba tent, ridge rest and thermarest pad (ridge rest isnt enough) pocket rocket stove and same brand pot. confusing part is layering system since its a winter start in georgia. 1 system on youtube by marmot had 3 jackets 200+ each out of my range. thinking cap 2 bottoms and top, some form of convertable pants kinda lost on upper body layers.

[rjhouser]

I'm leaving almost 4 months after you and will still have time to reach K. If you don't have a good reason to start in January I would wait. 3 jackets is ridiculous if I read that correctly.

[gilreatr]

thats just an idea starting date due to im a slow hiker. and also hate heat so trying to avoid summer heat as much as possible.

[Rocket Jones]

How much winter hiking and camping experience do you have? The days are much shorter, so you'll be spending more time camping during the long nights.

Is a 15* bag enough for Georgia mountains in January?

[Tipi Walter]

possible start would be late jan early feb. just starting to get stuff and was looking for ideas. sleeping bad is marmot helium 15, pack is aether 60 med pack with large argon straps, MSR hubba tent, ridge rest and thermarest pad (ridge rest isnt enough) pocket rocket stove and same brand pot. confusing part is layering system since its a winter start in georgia. 1 system on youtube by marmot had 3 jackets 200+ each out of my range. thinking cap 2 bottoms and top, some form of convertable pants kinda lost on upper body layers.

If you are really serious about backpacking north from Georgia in Jan/Feb, you'll need to carry considerably more weight in clothing and bedding and boots than your summer compatriots. Many AT thruhikers who start in Jan usually bail to the closest town when they get in their first big snowstorm, and you will too unless you figure out a way to posthole thru 2-3 feet of snow on ridgetops and not turn back. Snowshoes may be overkill but I would consider bringing a light backpacking shovel to dig out tent sites for your Hubba.

CLOTHING
You'll need two pair of decent gloves---and one must always stay dry. You'll need two hats---a balaclava and a toboggan (the southern version---A HAT). You'll need the usual long john tops and bottoms---bare minimum---over which you must have a midlayer (merino or fleece or primaloft) and an outer layer (fleece or down vest/jacket). I don't do any winter camping nowadays unless I bring down pants, down booties, and a hooded down parka (Feathered Friends Icefall). Overkill? Sure, for most AT types, but then these types bail to a town when the temps hit 10F or below.

BAILING
If you're serious about staying out and not bailing, you'll be confronted with days where movement is next to impossible and you'll be lucky to do four miles of postholing, so you'll at times need to carry more food and prepare for these slower days and not quit. It can be 65F in the mountains of NC on Feb 1st, or it can be -10F. Have the gear for both.

SLEEPING BAG
Marmot makes a pretty good bag, I have their 0F Couloir, but at 10F I sleep cold in it and so it's important to realize that most if not all bags should be bumped up 15 degrees on their ratings chart, so when they say "good to 15F", they really mean "good to 30F". Why? Because no sleeping bag is going to be as dry and warm and as lofted as it is in your house. After a couple winter days on the trail your bag will be thinner with less loft and therefore "colder", and so I recommend going way overkill on this one item. For long-term winter hiking in the Southeast I recommend carrying something in the sub zero range, say -10F or -15F. You'll be very glad you have it when your nighttime temps dip to 0F.

BOOTS
You will need some decent winter boots with a good deep tread, and not those trail runners so popular today. Whenever I see winter backpackers out in their trail runners I have to laugh as I watch them slip and slide down the trail. They have little or no TREAD. Think "Lug Boots" and you'll be on the right track.

[Skidsteer]

Is a 15* bag enough for Georgia mountains in January?

Only if you're lucky with the weather and/or are willing to spend some days in town.

It wouldn't give me a happy feeling...

[max patch]

is a 15* bag enough for georgia mountains in january?

no!!!!!!!!

[Blissful]

Start in March or early April. You're gonna be cold and lonely. Must have a down jacket. Heavyweight layers. Food galore to keep up with caloric demands. 0 degree bag.

[Tom Murphy]

Tipi, why do you say snowshoes are overkill and then talked about postholing? I use a 9x30 pair in the winter up here in New England and wouldn't consider going winter backpacking without them. Are deep snow conditions that infrequent? Postholing is exhausting.

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi, why do you say snowshoes are overkill and then talked about postholing? I use a 9x30 pair in the winter up here in New England and wouldn't consider going winter backpacking without them. Are deep snow conditions that infrequent? Postholing is exhausting.

I've never seen backpackers in the Georgia/North Carolina/Tennessee/Virginia mountains use or even carry snowshoes in the winter. Why? Because they don't want to carry an extra four pounds of footwear that may or may not be needed, and we would rather just posthole along a ridge or sit tight for several days and wait for a thaw. Plus, we don't call it a Green Tunnel for nothing because on Southeast trails like the AT there's a common tendency for deep snow to either push a hiker up too high into the overhead brush and branches (and snowshoes would make this worse), or to cause these branches to become snow-loaded and to lean down onto the trail making a simple mile hike turn into a hell slog belly-crawl. Has anyone done the hell slog winter belly crawl while wearing a heavy winter pack? It's turns a nice snowy day into a sweatlodge obstacle course of cursing.

The technique we use here is called Bulldozing---either up or down. Going up a steep mountain in two feet of snow while wearing a 50 or 60 lb pack is near torture, and I'm not sure how snowshoes would make it easier. Going down a steep mountain in 2-3 foot snow and drifts is more akin to "swimming"---just throw yourself forward and get horizontal. When AT winter backpackers are confronted with these conditions, how many of them aren't going to bail and hitch to the closest town and instead set up camp and wait 7-10 ten days for it all to melt?

FLYIN' BRIAN ROBINSON
Who remembers triple crowner Flyin' Brian? He was up in Vermont or New Hampshire in the winter trying to finish his AT thruhike and had to stop and get off the trail. Why? He was turned back by the "snowdowns"---brush and branches loaded down with snow and blocking the trail. So, learn to belly crawl with a backpack on your back, but ya won't like it.

[gilreatr]

Thanks for the advise tipi I might move starting date didn't know snow got that deep up there in dahlonega normally 6-8 is normal. you mentioned decent winter boots the ones I have now are salomon quest 4d gtx. (not sure if those are winter) or not

[Tipi Walter]

Thanks for the advise tipi I might move starting date didn't know snow got that deep up there in dahlonega normally 6-8 is normal. you mentioned decent winter boots the ones I have now are salomon quest 4d gtx. (not sure if those are winter) or not

North of Dahlonega is where it starts getting interesting, say around NOC going north into the Smokies and beyond. These last two winters have been ROUGH cold-wise and snow-wise, but here I'm talking above 4,000 feet. Six to eight inches is more normal and doesn't present any real challenge except for patches of ice and slush, especially tough when descending. Remember Stumpknocker? He was coming down the AT and hit a long patch of ice and slipped and broke his arm. Would crampons have helped? Yep, maybe a pair of Kahtoola microspikes. But I don't carry them and instead have mastered the art of the Bung Abseil---going down an icy mountain on my butt.

[Tom Murphy]

decent winter boots the ones I have now are salomon quest 4d gtx
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For day hikes, I had good success with Cablelas Avalanche and Merrell Thermo 6. The Thermo 6 are more of a UL day hiking winter boot with only half the insulation of the Cablela's. They are perfect for a quick showshoe on a local trail or around the snowed-over golf course.
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http://www.cabelas.com/mens-winter-sport-boots-cabelas-avalanche-400-gram-winter-boots.shtml?WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleBaseUSA&WT.z_mc_id1=722736&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=F7071D2A-E880-E011-97DC-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA
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http://www.altrec.com/merrell-shoes/mens-thermo-6-waterproof-boot
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For overnights, I use a Pac boot from BAFFIN that allows you to remove the liner for drying overnight and/or to replace with a dry spare liner.
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[Snowleopard]

Gilreatr: For a Jan/Feb start, you must get winter experience first. Do a couple of weekends in the mountains in Nov and Dec in gradually colder conditions to dial your gear in. You want to avoid getting your clothing wet with sweat. Winter hiking, xc skiing or snowshoeing involve constantly adjusting clothing so you don't get too hot and sweaty. Think layers rather than a single really warm layer for hiking. Of course, having a really warm (expensive) down parka is a good idea for when you stop. Winter is when I would carry good goretex or event parka and rain pants.
Here are a couple of links for winter hiking and camping that are helpful. They are intended for colder conditions than the southern mountains, so adjust their recommendations a bit. Reading TipiWalter's trip reports is good preparation for hiking the southern mountains. You can cut down on what TW carries a bit by resupplying frequently and by being prepared to sit out the worst weather in town. Just be sure to carry enough to be able to safely bail out if you run into bad conditions.
http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/winter/wintcamp.shtml
http://www.winterschool.org/WMS%20Student%20Handbook.pdf
. The Adirondack Mountain Club and AMC conduct winter hiking/camping classes.

Tom Murphy, some of the trails we hike are cut and maintained for winter use and some will be difficult in deep snow. Getting hit in the face by branches that are normally 4' above face level is not fun. The Long Trail has a parallel trail (Catamount Trail??) for winter use. Personally, I'd have snowshoes and microspikes available for the Smokies, but I don't have experience down there and TipiWalter does.

[Ironbelly]

I have lots of winter backpacking experience, and I will start off by saying that before you set off in the winter on your own for the first time on a long trek you should do a few overnighters/weekend trips close to home to dial in your gear for the cold.

You need a better bag. Simply put 15F is not adequate, and you will either end up being very uncomfortable or hypothermic and die cold wet tired and miserable. If you were only going out for a couple nights a 15F bag you could get by with by adding in some more clothing layers and a fleece liner bag etc. But for an extended trip in the winter for the most comfort and safety margin you need at LEAST a 0F bag if not a -20-30 bag.
You may find an aether 60 small for a full winter pack. All of that extra clothing and bigger bag really can take up some room.
You may find that your pocket rocket to be quirky in cold weather and you will need to learn to warm the canister before use. I would take a white gas stove in winter, due to the need to melt snow for water. You will burn through your fuel on a pocket rocket using it to melt snow all the time. I recommend taking a 2L pot for melting snow.

I use the following for most of my winter trips:
Head-Smartwool balaclava, smartwool beanie, goggles, old hood from a synthetic hunting jacket.
Torso-capaline 3 l/s, columbia l/s hiking shirt, polypro heavyweight top, pantagonia nano puff, ecwcs goretex parka or a waxed cotton down jacket depending on if rain is possible or not.
legs: capaline 2, winter weight bdu pants, cabela down pants, ecwcs goretex pants
Feet: smartwool mountainering socks, smartwool liners, TNF arctic pull on boots, down booties
Hands: smartwool glove liners, fingerless fleece mittens, fingerless rag wool gloves, OR endeavor mitts.

I also carry a spare capaline 3 top, and extra boxer brief, and a extra pair or two of socks depending on length of trip. I reserve the down pants , down booties, and my extra cap 3 l/s for camp use only. I am comfortable down to -30ish with this setup using all layers as appropiate.

I recommend carrying those chemical hand warmers as well, i really like the shoe insole shaped ones for camp. The hot water in a nalgene trick at night works wonders also.

[Ironbelly]

I forgot to add that carrying a traction aid is highly advised, such as kahtoola microspikes. I personally like to carry snow shoes as well.

[Wobegon]

The bag is probably fine if you are a naturally warm sleeper..... As far as the start date, do what you want, but if you are already a slow hiker, I think you will be REALLY slow in snow and days with hardly any sunlight.

[lemon b]

If one has the chance just start. With kids and a job. I wish I had just skipped a year of college in 78. At that point in time gig and madman would have feed the tunnel rat, who at that age would have been unefeected by weight or the cold.