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View Full Version : Trail length depends upon time of day?



The Cheat
02-18-2005, 14:57
If the official AT route moves to U.S. 9W at Bear Mountain when the zoo closes at 5:00 doesn't this mean the trail is a different length at night than it is during the day? :-? ;)

Footslogger
02-18-2005, 15:23
Is that a Trick Question ??

'Slogger
AT 2003

The Solemates
02-18-2005, 15:33
Is that a Trick Question ??

'Slogger
AT 2003

His name is The Cheat...

rickb
02-18-2005, 16:10
Now that is a great question!

Its got me thinking about so many things that my head is starting to hurt.

For example, what happens if the gate is opened while a hiker is on U.S. 9W? The poor soul. This is more serious than I realized. Do gates at both ends of Zoo need to be opened before that strech reverts to becomming the AT? And I haven't even begun to this on how this impactsWarren Doyle's legacy as the person who has more thru hikes/2,000 Milerdoms than any other soul on earth. When did this become official policy anyway. And who made it so!

No, this isn't great. Its very disturbing.

Rick B

Lone Wolf
02-18-2005, 16:12
It's only disturbing if you have OCD.

Footslogger
02-18-2005, 16:16
It's only disturbing if you have OCD.===============================
In my business that's an OsteoChondral Defect ??

'Slogger

Lone Wolf
02-18-2005, 16:18
In my business it means you're ***ing anal. :D

Footslogger
02-18-2005, 16:29
In my business it means you're ***ing anal. :D====================================
I guess I'd better mind my own business !!

'Slogger

The Solemates
02-18-2005, 16:56
====================================
I guess I'd better mind my own business !!

'Slogger

You guys had me rollin on the floor
:clap

shades of blue
02-18-2005, 17:06
Well....as long as you aren't blue blazing around the zoo...that should be ok. Right wolf?

The Cheat
02-18-2005, 17:22
Is that a Trick Question ??

'Slogger
AT 2003
Yes.

And part II of the question: If you are a purist and jump the zoo fence at 6:00 PM so you can follow all the white blazes, aren't you actually failing at purism(is that a word?) since the 'official' AT has now moved to 9W?

Part III is coming later. :datz

rickb
02-18-2005, 17:22
F'ing Anal?

Good thing I didn't post my theory on how only ambient temperature changes length.

Rick B

U-BOLT
02-18-2005, 17:29
Not only does the trail change length from day to night, but from year to year and sometimes from season to season. In other words, THAT TRAIL IS A SNAKE, alive and wiggling. So watch out, if the AT where you're walking bunches up real tight and you hear a rattling sound, it's getting ready to strike!


If the official AT route moves to U.S. 9W at Bear Mountain when the zoo closes at 5:00 doesn't this mean the trail is a different length at night than it is during the day? :-? ;)

The Old Fhart
02-18-2005, 17:36
Weather can change the trail length on Moxie Bald (bad weather bypass). I recall Wolf Brook with its 12? crossings has a high water bypass, the Lemon Squeezer is actually white blazed for both thru and the bypass, and Nuclear Lake used to have a bypass for the concerned. In 1998 when the bridges went out between Kincora and RT-321, the old railroad bed became the official trail for a while. This is to just to name a few......

Frosty
02-18-2005, 18:41
Weather can change the trail length on Moxie Bald (bad weather bypass). I recall Wolf Brook with its 12? crossings has a high water bypass, the Lemon Squeezer is actually white blazed for both thru and the bypass, and Nuclear Lake used to have a bypass for the concerned. In 1998 when the bridges went out between Kincora and RT-321, the old railroad bed became the official trail for a while. This is to just to name a few......Didn't Fontana Dam close to pedestrian traffic right afer 9-11 because ... because ... for national security?

Dances with Mice
02-18-2005, 20:39
While we’re pondering the variation of Trail length vs. time of day and weather, we might as well consider how our pack weight varies depending on time and location.

Mass doesn't vary with time or location. Weight, on the other hand, depends upon location, location, location.

Lunar Influences:The pack will be lighter during high tides and heavier during low tide. You could calculate by how much and use that information to schedule zero days: http://www.clupeid.demon.co.uk/tides/maths.html

Changes in latitude, changes in magnitude: Your pack will also get heavier as you travel north. http://www.geocities.com/ramin1102000/chap2-2page.html

And unfortunately for us, gravity is higher in mountainous regions. Your pack may gain in weight just by traveling from your home to the trailhead. http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=11

SavageLlama
02-18-2005, 21:06
F'ing Anal?

Good thing I didn't post my theory on how only ambient temperature changes length.

Rick B
Yeah, I won't even bring up my thesis about fluctuations in mountain topography due to the hyperflexion affects from sub-zero water removal.

Lone Wolf
02-18-2005, 21:09
Buncha friggin geeks. :)

Frosty
02-18-2005, 21:16
And unfortunately for us, gravity is higher in mountainous regions. Your pack may gain in weight just by traveling from your home to the trailhead. http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=11This is backwards. Gravity diminishes ther further you get from the center of mass of the earth. Eventually (far enough from the earth) one becomes weightless). In the article, they discuss attraction of satellites, not people on the earth.

Dances with Mice
02-18-2005, 21:29
This is backwards. Gravity diminishes ther further you get from the center of mass of the earth. Eventually (far enough from the earth) one becomes weightless). In the article, they discuss attraction of satellites, not people on the earth.

Those are two separate effects. Gravity isn't constant across the earth's surface, as the article shows. But variation in gravity with altitude is an effect that I neglected. Thanks!

Nightwalker
02-18-2005, 21:44
It's only disturbing if you have OCD.
You're not qualified to make that observation. We leave that wacko crap to OB.

:D

The Old Fhart
02-18-2005, 22:21
Dances with Mice-"Gravity isn't constant across the earth's surface, as the article shows."Correct. Actually I happen to know quite a bit about magnetic variation, or isogonic lines which are lines of constant declination (similar to contour lines, i.e., lines of constant elevation). In the latest study out of M.I.T. a group of scientists have proven that gravity doesn’t exist. While others have questioned their findings saying that if gravity doesn’t exist , the earth rotation would throw people into space, the scientist explain that can’t happen because the earth sucks! :D

Frosty
02-18-2005, 22:45
Buncha friggin geeks. :)I'm a retired engineer. Geek is a compliment! (And anal-retentive is darn near a term of endearment)

The Old Fhart
02-19-2005, 00:08
Is anal-retentive hyphenated? :D

Frosty
02-19-2005, 01:01
Is anal-retentive hyphenated? :DMy bad. Anal retentive should only be hyphenated when used as an adjective

He is anal retentive.

He is an anal-retentive geek.

The Old Fhart
02-19-2005, 01:18
Sorry, wasn't meant as a criticism. My point was only an anal-retentive person would even care. A woman I hiked with had a tee-shirt with that saying on it. (btw, is tee-shirt hyphenated?) :D

rickb
02-19-2005, 08:52
I lways thought that those using swpell check were anal-retentive, and looking for the approval of oithers.

Rick B

The Cheat
02-19-2005, 10:07
Now that is a great question!

Its got me thinking about so many things that my head is starting to hurt.

For example, what happens if the gate is opened while a hiker is on U.S. 9W? The poor soul. This is more serious than I realized. Do gates at both ends of Zoo need to be opened before that strech reverts to becomming the AT? And I haven't even begun to this on how this impactsWarren Doyle's legacy as the person who has more thru hikes/2,000 Milerdoms than any other soul on earth. When did this become official policy anyway. And who made it so!

No, this isn't great. Its very disturbing.

Rick B

Ahh, see Rick asked part III of the question, what happens if the trail switches while you are in the middle of your trip around or through the zoo?

:datz :datz :datz :rolleyes:

Kerosene
02-19-2005, 20:15
I did a series of day hikes through central New York in June 2002 so that I could hike with my mom (she'd do 5-7 miles with my brother and me to a road where we stashed a car and then pick us up another 10 miles further on).

I tried to enter the Bear Mountain Zoo going SOBO (man, was it hard to find the blaze into the Zoo!) but they kicked me out since they had just closed. Undeterred, I came back after the next day's hike and walked through while they were still open, just so I could see that scraggly bear locked in its tiny cage.

SGT Rock
02-19-2005, 20:24
Ahh, see Rick asked part III of the question, what happens if the trail switches while you are in the middle of your trip around or through the zoo?

:datz :datz :datz :rolleyes:

Wouldn't this follow along the lines of different space-time continuum's? If I start the AT in a spot that it only open to one route at that point, then in my space-time I am on the right AT all day, someone coming to that point at a different space-time has a totally different AT. They can both exist simultaneously and parallel to each other. :eek:

This leads to another theory: the Black Hole hypothesis of trail towns and their gravities influence on Trail space-time. :datz

rickb
02-19-2005, 20:52
I think I understand what Rock is saying. Let me see if I have got this right--since there are two AT's then anyone who has hiked just 2200 +/- miles from GA to Maine has really only hiked to the halfway point.

Makes sense to me.

But perhaps we have all missed the obvious, and something which too many of us take for granted. Yes, I am talking about the United States Constitution.

As even Justice O'connor knows, the Constitution says that state laws that are contrary to federal law are null and void and must give way. As such, shouldn't a State Parks' authority to reroute the NATIONAL Trail also be null and void?

While this might not make any difference to the ATC, the Constitution is a document which still means something-- except on those occasions when we decide it should mean something else, of course. Sort of like the words on the 2,000 Miler application. We deserve to protect it.

Rick B

SGT Rock
02-19-2005, 20:56
I think I understand what Rock is saying. Let me see if I have got this right--since there are two AT's then anyone who has hiked just 2200 +/- miles from GA to Maine has really only hiked to the halfway point.


No, my point is much deeper. It involves the theory of relativity and the whole concept of quantum mechanics as it relates to the very fabric of space-time-Appalachian Trail. I think Einstein would have loved to hike that part of the AT just so he could ponder the implications :-?

The Old Fhart
02-19-2005, 21:08
SGT Rock-"No, my point is much deeper. It involves the theory of relativity and the whole concept of quantum mechanics as it relates to the very fabric of space-time-Appalachian Trail. O.K., now I am starting to get a headache!

SGT Rock
02-19-2005, 21:17
Well in quantum mechanics, there is a theory that the reason that some particles act in certain ways is founded on the theory that there can be parallel planes of space-time. Einstein also talked about this, where a certain event happening at a certain place at a certain time may have a slightly different outcome in another space-time. So if I get to the divergent point at a certain time at the same space as another hiker, my AT space-time will diverge from the AT space-time of hikers getting to the same space at a different time. While it is true that we may both be in different space, we will both really be in the same space in the trail, but because of the divergent event we will not even be aware of each other's existence, and we will both really be on the AT. WOW! :eek:

The Old Fhart
02-19-2005, 21:36
SGT Rock-"but because of the divergent event we will not even be aware of each other's existence, and we will both really be on the AT. I checked with Richard Fineman and Stephen Hawking and they concluded in layman's terms that translates to "HYOH." :)

SGT Rock
02-19-2005, 21:45
Exactly!:D

TDale
02-19-2005, 22:57
Well, out there on the multi-trail, every step is a decision. In quantum trail theory that makes every step a point where all possible steps become seperate realities. So when you say "HYOH" you are in essence saying "Hike ALL Your Own Hikes" or "HAYOH, Ha-a-a o, daylight come and me wanna walk home."

Ever notice how the higher you get the lighter you feel?

:banana

SGT Rock
02-19-2005, 23:04
So if you think about it that way, although in this particular multi-trail space-time I took the blue blaze, the chances are almost certain that in another multi-trail space-time I stuck to the whiteblaze at that shelter cut-off. Therefore I qualify as a purist on the quantum level :eek:

TDale
02-19-2005, 23:35
Yes you did, and yes you are. Also, by concious decision not to have ever stepped on the AT, I have already hiked the entire trail. Both ways. Where's my sticker?

cutman11
02-19-2005, 23:48
And then there is the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which when applied to the AT indicates that you can measure exactly only one of 3 things at any given moment :where you are, the mass in your pack, or what time it is....but at any given moment, the other two remain uncertain. So if you know how much is in the pack, you pretty much are guessing whether or not you will go thru the zoo at the proper time, on the correct trail! :dance

TDale
02-20-2005, 00:11
Then on Feb 5 I only thought I was in the Cohutta's.

Nightwalker
02-20-2005, 14:40
No, my point is much deeper. It involves the theory of relativity and the whole concept of quantum mechanics as it relates to the very fabric of space-time-Appalachian Trail. I think Einstein would have loved to hike that part of the AT just so he could ponder the implications :-?
Rock, you really gotta stop smokin' so much crack or LW's gonna hippy-kick you at Trail Days.

:D

SGT Rock
02-20-2005, 14:42
I thought it was the general concensus that Lwolf is now a hippy?

Nightwalker
02-20-2005, 14:44
I thought it was the general concensus that Lwolf is now a hippy?
SHHH! We're not supposed to tell.

The Cheat
02-20-2005, 20:14
So if you think about it that way, although in this particular multi-trail space-time I took the blue blaze, the chances are almost certain that in another multi-trail space-time I stuck to the whiteblaze at that shelter cut-off. Therefore I qualify as a purist on the quantum level :eek:
Well, let's say you are hiking with Schroedinger's cat, and arrive at the zoo. If I were to observe your hike at this point I would probably find you in two states, the positions being effected by the measurement. The state of passing through the zoo and the state of passing around the zoo would both exist. Both hikes being accomplished at the same time, I would agree whole heartedly that you are not only a purist at the quantum level but you would also be H'ingYOH.

:jump :jump :jump :jump :jump

smokymtnsteve
02-20-2005, 20:33
Ever notice how the higher you get the lighter you feel?

:banana

yep,,, :eek:

Blue Jay
02-21-2005, 10:37
No, my point is much deeper. It involves the theory of relativity and the whole concept of quantum mechanics as it relates to the very fabric of space-time-Appalachian Trail. I think Einstein would have loved to hike that part of the AT just so he could ponder the implications :-?

This is clearly true. How many thrus get to the "end" of the AT and never actually leave? Yes their body goes back to the money world, but they never go back. Space and time no longer operate the same for them.

c.coyle
02-21-2005, 11:46
Well in quantum mechanics, there is a theory that the reason that some particles act in certain ways is founded on the theory that there can be parallel planes of space-time. ... So if I get to the divergent point at a certain time at the same space as another hiker, my AT space-time will diverge from the AT space-time of hikers getting to the same space at a different time. While it is true that we may both be in different space, we will both really be in the same space in the trail, but because of the divergent event we will not even be aware of each other's existence, and we will both really be on the AT. WOW! :eek:

Which one of you would be blue blazing?

Doctari
02-21-2005, 15:15
Then of course there is the theroy that every time you measure something you change it. So does that mean that in addition to the re-routes changing the length, does the measuring of the said re-route also change the AT?
And what about the tides as mentioned earlier, do they also make the mountains higher/lower? Does the "Lighter" pack equal the change in elevation?? What if the tide is south of you, will that make the northbounder slide backwards???!

Excuse me while I go into a corner, assume the fetal position & suck my thumb :eek:

Youngblood
03-09-2005, 17:08
Ever have one of those days on the AT where you felt like you were following the white blazes and you come across a trail maintainer who is coming from the other direction blacking out the white blazes? It can always get worse, you could look behind you and see another one coming from that direction. That happened to me one time except I didn't see those sneaky black blazing maintainers. :clap