Trail Magic Question [Archive]

Jack Tarlin

02-20-2005, 20:35

Lone Wolf

02-20-2005, 20:39

Simply? NO. That's elitist BS. Like I said on that forum, if you want your friggin "magic" to be for through hikers only then sit there, check their credentials and dole out the goodies.

smokymtnsteve

02-20-2005, 20:39

No it is NOT COOL.

it is an individual choice, but it is not cool.

LW is COOL

also It is not cool to leave unattended food along the trail.

but no one says U have to be cool...

:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Lone Wolf

02-20-2005, 20:42

No Steve. YOU'RE cool! How's your frozen ass doing anyway? You miss Hotlanta? :)

SGT Rock

02-20-2005, 20:42

Trail Magic is trail magic. If I take something out for others, then everyone is invited. I don't ask for credentials since in my upbringing that would be bad manners.

tribes

02-20-2005, 20:44

I responded to the other thread as well on TF and will respond here as well.

I agree with LW and SMS on this one. It is not right to be selective with trail magic.

TRI :sun BES

Lone Wolf

02-20-2005, 20:53

A few years ago myself and 3 others walked up to the picnic area next to the Fontana Hilton shelter. There was a hiker feed going on. A lot of the hikers I'd been hiking with since Springer were present. The hosts asked us if we were thru-hiking, I said no just doing a section. We were not invited to eat. These were former thru-hikers putting on the feed. I knew one of them. The arrogance and elitism pissed me off royally. Since then I refuse roadside feeds put on by ex-hikers "giving back". *** em.

smokymtnsteve

02-20-2005, 20:53

No Steve. YOU'RE cool! How's your frozen ass doing anyway? You miss Hotlanta? :)

actually it has been quite warm here in Healy for the last couple weeks..

temps all the way up to +39 with mostly day time temps in the +20's and night time temps down into the teens...

very sunny the last few days, good clear nights, with some good northern lights, so i've been singing at the moon with the dogs at night,

right now our team,DALTON GANG, is running in 5th place in the Yukon Quest, so we are in the money,,,and the good news is that the team has only dropped one dog while the rest of the teams have droped lots more dogs spo the Dalton gang is heading into the home strech with more "dog power" than the rest.

U can follow the race at www.yukonquest.org

nascar..Alaskan style

:banana

SGT Rock

02-20-2005, 20:56

Hey Wolf, I thought about setting up at Springer with some steaks and other fresh goodies doing a cookout right there at the shelter with a grill with the sweet aroma of lean steak enticing the thru-hikers, then offering them a steak to quit now LOL. Seemed sort of cruel (we do this in the Cav for spur rides) but maybe a feed just for section hikers might be a funny way to poke at thems that think thru-hiking is something other than a bunch of section hikes in a row.

cutman11

02-20-2005, 20:59

The interesting thing about that post was he was "preaching to the choir" about some day hikers eating all the trailmagic. Unfortunately, the folks he was complaining about would obviously be highly unlikely to be even reading or knowing about a hiking forum much less one for long distance hikers. I think trail magic, although for anyone who passes by, is one of those "honor system" items. I, as a section hiker, would certainly not be scarfing down all the snickers and cokes en route to my waiting vehicle and ride home. I've wondered often about the places such as the Smokies shelters and the one near Katahdin reserved for "thru hikers"; other than the honor system, how would anyone know, or be able to verify whether or not you hiked 10 miles and claimed you were thruhiking just so as to use the shelter. I like to think the vast majority of AT hikers whether thru or sectioners are honorable enough to do the right thing. Perhaps the answer lay in one of the other posts, dont restrict the magic to certain hikers, but plan to put it in places more likely to be gotten by the thrus and not by some silly knownothing day hikers, who more than likely didnt even know what "trail magic" was!

smokymtnsteve

02-20-2005, 21:00

Rain Man

02-20-2005, 21:00

The subject is simple: Is it cool to give out Trail Magic or treats in such a way that certain hikers are excluded?

Yes, it is. Or, at least the reciprocal is not cool. That is, meddlers telling a trail angel what the rules are for him to follow are no more cool than telling a web site owner the ethical rules for running his own site. Capice?

Besides which, the question is so unqualified and open-ended... do I as a trail angel with a couple of cheeseburgers for bona fide thru-hikers have to give them to the Boy Scout Troop that comes along right ahead of the thrus? I think not.
:sun
Rain Man

.

Alligator

02-20-2005, 21:07

I very often pass on Trail Magic because I recognize how much more meaningful it might be to thrus. My chances of passing on an item decreases the longer I am out. Caffeinated and alcoholic beverages as well as baked goods stand no chance of being passed up:) . I would not bring goodies to the trail though and exclude certain hikers. If you are going to share, you should share with everybody. I would optimize, however, the probability that they would go to overnighters. Like maybe at a remote trailhead or shelter.

SGT Rock

02-20-2005, 21:10

Maybe we should ask the hikers if they are purist and then if they admit to be a purists tell them . that we would love to give them some trail majick but we wouldn't want to be responsible for messing up their purity, so move along purist :D

Should we make them skip a blaze to prove it? :-?

Gawd, now I am turning into the purist tempter :eek:

smokymtnsteve

02-20-2005, 21:12

Never be afraid to re-invent yourself ;)

smokymtnsteve

02-20-2005, 21:17

Yes, it is. Or, at least the reciprocal is not cool. That is, meddlers telling a trail angel what the rules are for him to follow are no more cool than telling a web site owner the ethical rules for running his own site. Capice?

Besides which, the question is so unqualified and open-ended... do I as a trail angel with a couple of cheeseburgers for bona fide thru-hikers have to give them to the Boy Scout Troop that comes along right ahead of the thrus? I think not.
:sun
Rain Man

.

i see your point Rainman...I had pictured the situation as a more 'organized' trail majick event.

SGT Rock

02-20-2005, 21:21

I'm sort of the other way, you don't set out a candy dish on your table unless you intend for folks to eat it. Just bad manners IMHO. Now on the other end of things, I probably wouldn't take any if I were just day hiking, but that is just me.

rickb

02-20-2005, 21:30

Not many people take delight in the grackles and squirels at thier bird feeder.

Those who insist on doing preplanned Trail Magic might as well do whatever makes them feel best.

Footslogger

02-20-2005, 21:38

I say if you leave it along the trail it's for anyone who is out hiking, regardless of the sign indicating otherwise.

I remember a few instances in 2003 where a couple of thru-hikers from a previous year had parked by a road crossing to meet and offer food and beverages to current thru-hikers. They asked if I was a thru-hiker and I replied yes. At that point they openned up the cooler and said ...have at it. While I was enjoying a cold soda and some twinkies a couple day hikers passed by. They indicated that they were not thru-hikers and were not offered refreshment.

'Slogger
AT 2003

poison_ivy

02-20-2005, 21:43

I read this question with interest, because I have occaisionally encountered trail magic left on the trail and as a section hiker, I've always been unsure of whether I should take advantage of it or not. If I'm only out for a day or two (or on the way back to the car as someone pointed out earlier) I certainly wouldn't partake of goodies.

But I was once out in the middle of a five day backpacking trip and found cans of beer in several streams. I walked past several streams with cans (and even directed some LT hikers to them when they passed me heading SOBO.) However, I later found one in a stream next to the shelter (and was the only person at the shelter that night) and drank it. To this day, I've felt funny about it, even though there wasn't a note or anything saying it was for thru-hikers. It's actually prevented me from taking anything else, even on longer trips.

I'm not really sure my story adds much to the discussion but there you go. :)

- Ivy

saimyoji

02-20-2005, 21:51

Here's my take:

If its left unattended, its for anyone. If its marked for a specific group, then you should have the courtesy to the Angel to obey. If you find a cooler of stuff marked for thru-hikers, and you are on a 20 day section hike, GO FOR IT. You are after all, a thru (by intent), just taking longer. A good idea would be to leave a note EXPLAINING to people what your intentions are. A note to the hikers might also be appreciated.

Again, thanks to all the trail angels. Keep it up.

Slimer

02-20-2005, 22:08

My dad left a package of food for me at the 4-Pines hostel, I crammed what I could into my pack then left a small pile of "magic" there then left some more shortly after getting back onto the trail. I left the usual note saying that this was for thru-hikers, but in honesty I didnt care who found the food. I just wanted hikers to take what they needed and to try and leave some for others.

cutman11

02-20-2005, 23:17

Ya, I think part of the key is having a little and leaving some for others who follow. The original post also alluded to the day hikers basically piggin out and taking ALL the snickers, again, i doubt any thru or long distance sectioner would be that rude. And I do think havin one cold one at the empty shelter in the middle of a several day section is fair. Just dont drink the whole case.:jump

Frosty

02-20-2005, 23:51

I see two separate questions here:

Is it ethical to give stuff to a certain person/group and not to everyone?
Should the giver get upset if his wishes are not followed.

(Perhaps I see it as two questions because my answers to each are different)

I don't see why you have to feed everyone. I think if you want to give stuff away, you ought to be allowed to give it to whom you want.

If I left something in a shelter with a note saying this package was for Baltimore Jack, whether if was food or a piece of gear he needed, I would hope other thru hikers and day hikers would not take it.

Same with apples and sodas. If I left a note saying this was for thru hikers, I would hope that non-thruhikers wouldn't take it.

I would not, however, throw a fit if I found out that day hikers ate it. People are people, and though my hope would be that my request was honored, I would expect some people to take it whether it was offered to them or not.

Probably the best way to handle it would be to leave stuff appreciated more by thru hikers than day hikers. Good luck getting day hikers to pass by a plate of home-baked cookies or a cooler full or beer. Oranges and peaches, though, might not be so often scarfed by day hikers, but appreciate by thrus.

Si I guess I see it like shelters. I think that weekenders should defer to thrus in shelter use, but wouldn't be suprised when a shelter is hogged by a large weekend group. I certainly wouldn't throw a fit.

My 2 cents.

Hikerhead

02-21-2005, 00:07

Simply? NO. That's elitist BS. Like I said on that forum, if you want your friggin "magic" to be for through hikers only then sit there, check their credentials and dole out the goodies.

I agree with Lone Wolf. The simple fact is there's a lot of day hikers who won't know what a Thru-hiker is. "Are we thru-hikers, yeah we're almost done. The car is just down the trail a bit. Let's take a drink and a candy bar for the ride home." Hand it out personally or quit whinning.

One Leg

02-21-2005, 00:07

If someone desires, out of the pure goodness of their hearts, to leave some awesome trail magic along the way, who cares if a "lowly section hiker" or a "high-fallutin' thru-hiker" enjoys the dibs?

Where does this insanity stop? If it's determined that the hiker is a day hiker or a section hiker, do we then begin to berate them on the distance of their weekend or week-long hike? Are they then deemed 'unworthy' to enjoy the fruit of their labor?

I started out last year with intentions of thru-hiking on my mind. I enjoyed several instances of trail-magic along the way. Since my endeavour "failed", should I then return to those locations of trail-magic and put back what I enjoyed then?

I think that, regardless of a hiker's status insofar as the ATC is concerned, if they've hiked (any portion of the trail), and are hungry, thirsty, or whatever, then let 'em have at it.

Proverbs 25:21, only insert "Hiker" in place of "Enemy".

One-Leg

Mountain Dew

02-21-2005, 00:45

*Is it OK to "restrict" trail magic to certain hikers?...

While I don't think it is ok to do this it is also not ok to take what isn't given to you either. Saying that, I also understand the ethical makeup of the common person.

To all those that say it is fine to take trail magic that is labeled for thru-hikers only answer me this. How would you feel if you came upon several coolers that had been emptied by a group of yuppie New Yorkers that were out for a 3 mile day hike ? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that OVER 90% of you would be so pissed you'd want to go off on them.

A cookout for thr-hikers only that is at a gap or trail head is just plan wrong. That is not only in bad taste it isn't a very bright idea.
----------------------------------------------------------
Footslogger, " I say if you leave it along the trail it's for anyone who is out hiking, regardless of the sign indicating otherwise." ---Remember the time in '03 that I passed by a drink left with a sign that stated that it was left for YOU ? You know that you would have been upset if you walked up on me drinking the last drop of that gatorade.
--------------------------------
I always enjoy laughing at those who say HYOH and then jump or create opprtunitys to slam purists. They get so mad at the idea that somebody would want to do such a crazy thing. Pathetic

The Old Fhart

02-21-2005, 00:46

I have been giving out trail magic for about 20 years and been on the receiving end countless times as well. While giving out magic to hikers coming thru NH, I have had hikers come out of the woods and say, when I ask them if they want a soda or whatever; “But I’m only a section hiker.” I reply: “That wasn’t my question. Would you like a soda?” When they see we aren't elitists, some even consider doing trail magic themselves.

While I have seen some people have magic for just thru hikers, and quite possibly because they only have enough for just the thru hikers they expect, I don’t look at it that way. Plus some times you will get it back at the most unexpected times. In 1990 after I finished my section hike I did trail magic at Jeffers Brook and one of the hikers there was Bill Irwin. On my thru hike in 1998 I ran into Bill’s hiker feed south of Antler’s Campsite. I reminded Bill about the trail magic I had given him 8 years earlier and amused him by misquoting Heb. 13:2 which says: “Be not forgetful to entertain strangers, for by doing so, many have entertained TRAIL angels unaware.” You might also want to consider that many people who do trail magic aren’t thru hikers or even hikers at all, just something to think about.

Mountain Dew

02-21-2005, 01:03

Old Fhart... STOP posting after me on threads. Yours are always better and make mine look petty. You Old Bhastard. :D

Footslogger

02-21-2005, 01:07

[QUOTE=Mountain Dew
Footslogger, " I say if you leave it along the trail it's for anyone who is out hiking, regardless of the sign indicating otherwise." ---Remember the time in '03 that I passed by a drink left with a sign that stated that it was left for YOU ? You know that you would have been upset if you walked up on me drinking the last drop of that gatorade.
--------------------------------
Yes ...but only because it had been left for me by a friend with a note on it indicating that it was for me. There's a big difference between a gift from a friend and trail magic. Not sure if you going after me or not with your comment there man but if so, you're WAY off base !!

'Slogger

Mountain Dew

02-21-2005, 01:17

So in that case I should NOT have ignored the sign that "said otherwise" ? Your two posts are dangerously close to making counter points. I don't see the difference between a cooler left for thru-hikers and a gatorade left for a hiker with their name on it.

minnesotasmith

02-21-2005, 03:03

Here's the way I'd suggest they go about doing it. Drive to a Trail/road crossing where the Trail there is at least a day's hike in both directions from a town close to the Trail. Politely ask hikers that come by how far they've gone, and are going, as a discreet, diplomatic way to find out who is a thru-, and who is not. When someone that doesn't give you the creeps plausibly answers that they are a through-hiker (and no lowly day/sectioners are within earshot :rolleyes: ), go crazy, and do whatever you want to for them. The ideal is of course to give them a free ride to where they can shower, wash their clothes, discard their garbage, give them a hot meal (homecooked or restaurant), provide a place where they can give their dog (if they have one along) a bath, perhaps drive them to where they can resupply and/or get a night to sleep in a bed indoors (especially if the weather is particularly fecal that day). Then, return them to the Trail where you found them.

Hint: men Trail Angels may want to consider trying to do this only for male hikers, due to understandable distrust on the part of many solo female hikers. If you want the option to help out a female hiker the above way, IMO it'd be best to have an adult female with you.

The Old Fhart

02-21-2005, 08:41

Mountain Dew-"Old Fhart... STOP posting after me on threads. Yours are always better and make mine look petty. You Old Bhastard." :DSorry Dew, I entered my post above within seconds of yours so I didn't see it. After I read it I said: "Damn, I wish I'd also said that," and you know how much I hate to agree with you, and it's happened more than once! :D

MOWGLI

02-21-2005, 09:44

To all those that say it is fine to take trail magic that is labeled for thru-hikers only answer me this. How would you feel if you came upon several coolers that had been emptied by a group of yuppie New Yorkers that were out for a 3 mile day hike ? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that OVER 90% of you would be so pissed you'd want to go off on them.

Well I guess I'm in the minority then.

In 2000 during my thru-hike I placed a cooler with a case of soda near the trailhead at Route 17A in New York. By that night the cooler was empty. I can guarantee you that some folks who were out for a day hike drank probably half of the sodas. Wanna know how that made me feel? Just fine.

I don't know why anyone would concern themselves with the geographic area or socioeconomic status of folks who would partake of your trail magic. (Well, if they were cowboys from Texas... :D) I also don't know why you'd concern yourself with how many miles a thirsty person has hiked. If you're giving out sodas to hikers on a hot day, why not give 'em to everybody?

rickb

02-21-2005, 10:23

"Is it ethical to give stuff to a certain person/group and not to everyone/"

The AMC seems to think so.

Only thru hikers are given the opportunity to "Work For Stay" at thier Huts.

weary

02-21-2005, 10:23

Simply? NO. That's elitist BS. Like I said on that forum, if you want your friggin "magic" to be for through hikers only then sit there, check their credentials and dole out the goodies.
Under the rules for maintainers of the Maine Appalachian Trail Club any food or other items found along the trail or in shelters should be packed out, but we aren't sticklers about it.

The 9-year-old I had walked Maine with in 1991 had been warned by southbound hikers that coming up was the "cookie lady shelter" where he could get a cookie. Well there was only one cookie left. So of course he ate it. An hour later, just about dusk, we heard a voice echoing off the waters and hills of Bald Mountain Pond, "Where's my cookie! Where's my cookie." A few minutes later the owner of the voice showed up, a 20-year-old with a mohawk haircut and a garter snake wrapped around his neck.

Jon confessed to have eaten the last cookie. The guy didn't seem too upset. He stowed his snake in a Pringle box, fed it a tiny frog and volunteered to fix my Whisperlight Stove, which was just old enough to have its first carbon jam. Two years later while walking home from Springer I spied the same mohawk and snake on Rusty's ceiling photo display in Virginia.

Weary

MileMonster

02-21-2005, 12:38

If/when I leave some magic along the trail I will certainly intend it for thru-hikers, after all I'll do it during thru-hiker season. It will not matter to me in the least who enjoys the magic, though. I think if you leave an item in public then it's up for grabs. However, I don't see anything wrong with attaching a sign that asks, nicely, that only thru-hikers partake, if that is what you want to do. Just don't expect everyone will abid by the request. If you want to target thru-hikers pick your spots wisely. Don't leave a cooler at Newfound Gap and then get mad when dayhikers take everything, lol!

I, personally, will leave trail magic for whomever comes by but I, personally, do not partake of trail magic along the AT when I'm a dayhiker.

Lilred

02-21-2005, 13:42

If I left something in a shelter with a note saying this package was for Baltimore Jack, whether if was food or a piece of gear he needed, I would hope other thru hikers and day hikers would not take it.

Unfortunately, this happened to me. Rain Man left a snickers bar and a dinner in a shelter for me with a note, addressed to me. Boy Scouts came along before I got there and took it. Yes, I was pissed.

If someone leaves something in a shelter with a note specifying who it is for, leave it alone if you don't fit the description. If no note is left with the trail magic, have at it. This is just plain common sense.

Drum Stick

02-21-2005, 13:50

He who discriminates in their giving has not mastered the art of giving.

While I was thru hiking I gave something, I don't recall what it was, to my friend Stone Monkey, he offered something in return and I declined (it was obviousy not an ice cold beer). Noticing that I often declined to receive, Stone Monkey suggested that I had not "mastered the art of giving"... A lesson I will never forget and what inspired my opening statement.

The day hiker who experiences kindness / magic just 'might' be some thrus ride into town or better. And the kindness is likely to continue long after the magic is gone. I agree with Sarge who suggested that it was a matter of upbringing. I remember Wicked's brother supplied awesome magic one night in Jersey, the next day my fam showed up and I had to beg Wicked's brother to join us. He kept saying "I am not a thru hiker". Do you think he was well brought up? :-)

That was a lousy situation you encountered L Wolfe but don't let the poorly brought up knock you from the high ground...
Drum Stick

Jaybird

02-21-2005, 14:22

grrickar

02-21-2005, 14:38

Where do I get my punch card? :p

My take is that if trail magic is just left by a given person, most anyone is going to take it whether they are thru-hikers or not, and those persons should not grouse about it - it is just a fact of life. Day hikers typically are just out for a short walk in the woods, and they may not be fully aware of these unspoken 'rules' or ethics.

One earlier post made the analogy of a bird feeder - and that would hold true here. If you want particular people to accept the trail magic, you would have to sit and hand it out yourself. Kinda like those people who put halloween candy outside and let kids take what they want - some will be honest and take a few pieces, while other kids will dump the whole bowl in their bag. Same thing with hikers.

Personally I wouldn't take anything if it said it was for thrus only, and unless I really was thirsty or hungry (or just craving a Snickers :D ) I would likely not accept anything no matter what.

rickb

02-21-2005, 14:44

FWIW, I think the sentiments surrounding the desire to provide a long distance hiker with a bit of support are just fine, and are naturally different than the kind of good will one might want to direct towards a person who isn't going so far.

This past summer I passed a bicyclist wearing a "Boston to LA 2004" T-shirt on Route 20, and made sure I had a bottle of water and juice in hand as he caught up with me at the next gas station. I ended up inviting this German retiree to spend his first night in the States in our home, where he pretended to enjoy my Coors Light. Would I have extended that intitation to someone out on 50K spin? Not likely!

I don't see anything wrong with my discrimination, any more than I see anything wrong with those who see long-distance hikers a bit differently. If a cooler of cokes is "restricted" to thru hikers, I can't see the harm that the RESTRICTION places on anyone else.

As for whether or not preplanned trail magic, and/or leaving a bucket of unattended goodies in the woods is the best way to "give back" for all the great experiences one has on the AT (or even good at all), I understand that is best left for other threads.

This thread's question is a good one. At a minimum it underlines that the manner in which trail magic is delivered has as much of an impact on people as the good will behind it.

Rick B

UCONNMike

02-21-2005, 15:42

It's kinda crappy if some guy hiking liek 2 miles for a day feels it is neccessary to take a soda and a granola bar from the cooler when he'll be bakc at home in a few hours, as oppossed to the thru hiker who is for the most part killing themselves out in the woods and would benifit and appreciate the trail magic more than the yuppie day hiker. when i did me section hike thru CT and MA i was hessitant to take anything bc i knew a thur-hiker would apreciate it more. If you see a cooler and you arent thru-hiking leave it alone, and get a soda on your way home from your day of hiking.

weary

02-21-2005, 16:04

....This past summer I passed a bicyclist wearing a "Boston to LA 2004" T-shirt on Route 20, and made sure I had a bottle of water and juice in hand as he caught up with me at the next gas station. I ended up inviting this German retiree to spend his first night in the States in our home, where he pretended to enjoy my Coors Light. Would I have extended that intitation to someone out on 50K spin? Not likely!
.... Rick B
That's the wisest kind of trail magic in my opinion, probably because it's the only kind I practice -- well that and maintaining my section for the past decade or two, and working to add buffers and a bit of wildness to the trail.

I always stop and give rides to hitchhikers with backpacks in hiking country, whether they are thru hikers or not. I once bought a round of ice cream cones for the long distance hikers awaiting a ride back to Rusty's. But I'm glad the organized "magic" was just getting underway in 1993 and I missed most of it.

I did enjoy the coffee and donut someone handed me at a road crossing in Georgia, but when I saw his beat up car with its bald tires, I thought he was far more in need of "magic" than me. I offered to pay him, but he refused. He did tell a tale of being unemployed and of having just gotten out of jail.

But he still wanted to help us poor hikers. My "magic" was to refrain from telling the guy to "get a life."

Weary

Dances with Mice

02-21-2005, 16:31

Is it cool to give out Trail Magic or treats in such a way that certain hikers are excluded?Never take strangers from candy.

The Weasel

02-21-2005, 16:44

This is a little late in this thread, but I hope it adds a perspective:

In 2001, I stopped my full trek to Katahdin at Saunders Shelter, north or Mt. Rogers. It had some special meaning for me, and still does, and it will be where I recommence, one day, the rest of my walk. So I had a sense of both loss, and gratitude, as I walked down to the road from Saunders; I'd walked to Damascus in '00, and the few miles to Saunders the following years, and I knew it would be some time before I could rejoin the trail that gave me so much.

So I did a little hitching, back and forth, and got a six pack of pretty good beer, and a 5 lb bag of ice. I put the beer and ice in about 5 plastic bags, and hiked back up to Saunders the next day. When I got there, around 2 pm, there were a number of hikers setting up and relaxing. I asked if any were thru hikers, and a small group of guys said, "Yeah! Us."

They didn't exactly have 'the Look' and after a few friendly questions, they admitted they weren't. The only other hiker present was a woman in her 40's, whose name I don't recall. We chatted, and she clearly had walked from Springer. I asked her if she wanted a cold beer, and she thought I was asking rhretorically. and said 'of course.' When I reached into my bag and pulled out a Sam Adams and handed it to her, she was literally speechless. She just stared. Then she took it. I asked her if she'd mind if I joined her and she just giggled.

We talked for a half and hour, and I enjoyed listening to her immensely. She said that a few of her friends were a few miles behind her, and I left the beer, and the ice, with her. I have no doubt that they enjoyed them; it was a 'cold beer drinking' type of day.

I have had no problem with myself for not giving the section hikers those beers. It's not that they didn't 'earn' them, since 'magic' isn't earned, but just happens. I wasn't looking for a lot of praise or such; I just wanted to share a beer with someone who knew every mile I'd walked from experience. And I don't really think that my decision was one that someone could say was right, or wrong. It's just, in a very existential sense, what happened. I may do it again, one day.

The Weasel

Lilred

02-21-2005, 17:07

But I'm glad the organized "magic" was just getting underway in 1993 and I missed most of it.
Weary

Is it truly magic if it's organized?? The term 'trail magic' seems to have lost it's meaning somewhere along the way. I always thought trail magic was something that happened to a hiker at the exact time the hiker needed it. "NEED" being the operative word, be it food, a ride, a piece of gear...etc.... Seems that food left in coolers at roadsides is the only 'magic' hikers talk about anymore. The people leaving the food are truly trail angels, but I wouldn't call it 'magic'.

The Weasel

02-21-2005, 18:32

"Magic" is serendipity applied to the trail, arising from intentional caring. It may be a special hitch, or a beer, or a handshake. Or other things. Or nothing.

You know it when you see it.

The Weasel

Nightwalker

02-21-2005, 18:33

The people leaving the food are truly trail angels, but I wouldn't call it 'magic'.
But you might if it were water and you were out.

:D

WalkinHome

02-21-2005, 18:44

Discriminating while handing out Trail Magic is just more of that entitlement elitist crap. It is just plain old hospitality that should rule here. Walk in, ride in, it's all the same to me-we'll leave the light on for ya-oops, no power, no lights, we'll have the fire goin for ya.

rickb

02-21-2005, 19:17

I don't know of any hostels that discriminate in favor of thru hikers.

Am I right about that? With the exception of the AMC, of course.

Rick B

Lone Wolf

02-21-2005, 19:22

Rusty used to. He even had t-shirts that had "for through-hikers only" printed on them.

rickb

02-21-2005, 19:30

I hope someone sat him down for a good talking to. ;)

shades of blue

02-21-2005, 19:45

Lone Wolf

02-21-2005, 19:50

There are no "official" rules at the huts. They don't HAVE to give work-for-stays. They shouldn't anyway. Everybody should pay equally.

Nean

02-21-2005, 20:25

this just happened to us last fall. former thrus puttin on a feed in the 100m. we were out for half the trail but had just got started. we were not invited to the party, which was ok, as i've never enjoyed clicks. when we do magic, it doesn't matter if you are a crackle, squirrel or supposed thruhiker. the idea is to take a break, visit... enjoy! or is that just me

Nean

02-21-2005, 20:33

i once worked @lake of the crowds w\ 4 thrus, i was on a 3day trip. nobody cared. we all had fun, i'd do it agian in a slackpackin yankee heartbeat

rickb

02-21-2005, 20:33

Great post Nean.

Now I have to go back and figure out what I was really trying to say with my bird feeder anaology.

If a hiker feed creates divisions or the sense of cliques, then something else isn't right.

Rick B

The Old Fhart

02-21-2005, 20:34

rickboudrie-"Is it ethical to give stuff to a certain person/group and not to everyone/"Actually, all things being equal, few things are equal. Although I give my trail magic to all, others have different ideas. Trail magic isn’t a right, just a little extra that can be at the discretion of the giver. Some other examples of differences follow. The definition of “thru hiker” can actually mean long distance hiker as they define it in some instances, like at GSMNP and Baxter.

GSMNP- only thru hikers can self-register, section hikers must call for reservations. Three spots in some shelters are reserved for thru hikers. Only thru hikers are allowed to tent-camp at the shelters.

If the other trails in Harriman State Park are closed, the A.T. stays open to thru hikers.

As an AMC member I may get a discount at any AMC facility that thru hikers won’t get. Other than the few work-for-stay at the huts, thru hikers’ money is welcome just like anyone’s. Plus they can stay in the bunk rooms at full price, or in the dungeon at Lakes at the reduced rate available to all.

The shelters that were at Daicey pond were for thru hikers only.

Peaks

02-21-2005, 20:35

Rick (and anyone else), you said that only thru-hikers were allowed work for stay at huts in the whites. Does that mean someone hiking the second half of the trail (from Pine Grove Furnance to Katahdin) shouldn't try to get work for stay? I'm asking because I'll be hiking (hopefully) that hike this summer. I know I won't be a thru-hiker, but will be a long distance hiker. If those are the rules, I would want to abide by them. What do you guys/gals think?

Rules are only thru-hikers. However, as a volunteer at the huts, I know that noone's going to check your journal or "punch-card." to prove it. If you are doing a long distance hike such as you plan to do, then it's perfectly acceptable to do a work for stay and don't feel bad about doing it.

Peaks

02-21-2005, 20:39

I was briefly on another Trail forum today, and there was VERY lively thread about Trail Magic.

In brief, this guy had left a bunch of goodies out on the Trail with a sign indicating that they were intended for thru-hikers. He later discovered that they'd been almost entirely eaten by day-hikers. He proceeded to have a major hissy fit.

My question to Whiteblaze folks?

*How do feel about this?
*Is it OK to "restrict" trail magic to certain hikers?

I know how I feel about this, but I'm curious about what other folks think. I'd especially like to hear from Trail Angels who've left baskets or goodies.

Oh. This is NOT a discussion about Leave No Trace principles or the propriety of leaving things in shelters, etc. Nor is it about self-sufficiency, or about modern hikers being spoiled, or about what the Trail's founders originally intended. That's all been covered elsewhere.

The subject is simple: Is it cool to give out Trail Magic or treats in such a way that certain hikers are excluded?

I've been out back-country skiing the Catamount Trail, so now that I'm on line, I can add my 2 cents.

When someone puts out goodies, that's the risk he takes. Stop whinning.

Frankly, I see too much of it, and certainly too much discussion about it. If an individual truely wants to help hikers, then get active with trail maintenance and do something that benefits everyone, not just a few who happen to come along at the right time.

Lone Wolf

02-21-2005, 20:41

The best post yet Peaks.

weary

02-21-2005, 20:54

Rusty used to. He even had t-shirts that had "for through-hikers only" printed on them.
I had to go upstairs to check. Since my Rusty's Hard Time Hollow tee shirt doesn't fit any more, it was buried deep in an unused drawer -- unlike that shirt the lone wolf guy bought, which with his weight loss now fits -- but in fact Rusty misspells thru as "Through." Chalk one up for Lone Wolf.

Weary

The Old Fhart

02-21-2005, 21:07

shadesofblue68-".............What do you guys/gals think?"That is what the Brits would call a real poser. The way I would look at it is you will have hiked more miles than a SOBO starting at Katahdin would at that point, so mileage wise, you certainly qualify. I believe the rule is to prevent short-distance hikers from using the work-for-stay. If you still feel uneasy about doing a work-for-stay without starting at Springer (I guess I would too), ask the hut croo, explaining to them what you have told us here. I can’t picture them saying no unless there are others there ahead of you. Try to get to the hut early in case they say no you have time to hike on and camp. Keep in mind that a lot of thru hikers camp elsewhere and plan on hitting the huts after breakfast and eating the leftovers for $1 or what ever they charge for them.

There is only one hut that I stayed at on my thru hike and that was Lakes of the Clouds. Because of its location, this is a good choice if the weather is good. Also there are 6 spots in the Dungeon at Lakes available for $12 or whatever the current rate is. You can get a great sunset from Lakes. Good luck.

shades of blue

02-21-2005, 21:18

Thanks folks, I think I'll just tell them that I am a long distance hiker, and let them decide. It will be strange hiking with all the thru's. I will have hiked from Springer, it just will be my third year out. I've wondered if I will be in the thick of thru-hikers (starting Pine Grove May 28) and if so, will they be clickish, or accepting. Even giving myself a few weeks to regain my hiking legs, I figure a lot of the people I hike with will be thru-hikers, even though I will still be a section hiker.

weary

02-21-2005, 21:32

...I figure a lot of the people I hike with will be thru-hikers, even though I will still be a section hiker.
As will most of the thru hikers.

kevin

02-21-2005, 23:36

I'm a little late in throwing in my 2 cents on this thread, but here goes anyway. If someone wants to put out some snacks or do a cookout for thrus only, I guess thats up to them (I'll just walk my lowly non-thru self on by grumbling to myself). Its their stuff to distribute (or not) as they please. However, it seems like nothing more than a way to segment hikers instead of uniting us. Thrus, sections, days...we're all out there because we want to be and part of the beauty of the trail is how people from all walks of life can get along as one big group. Why create a situation where people gather at the shelters for the night and feel separated?

Skyline

02-21-2005, 23:57

. . . I've wondered if I will be in the thick of thru-hikers (starting Pine Grove May 28) and if so, will they be clickish, or accepting. Even giving myself a few weeks to regain my hiking legs, I figure a lot of the people I hike with will be thru-hikers, even though I will still be a section hiker.

You won't be in the thick of the NOBO push, but ahead of it by a few weeks. There should be NOBOs up there by then, however.

Most will accept you just fine, especially after seeing you on the Trail for a few days. Those few who don't are petty, don't waste your time being concerned about what they think.

Rain Man

02-21-2005, 23:57

I say if you leave it along the trail it's for anyone who is out hiking, regardless of the sign indicating otherwise.

Character is what you do when no one is looking.
:dance
Rain Man

.

The Old Fhart

02-22-2005, 09:58

kevin-"I'm a little late in throwing in my 2 cents on this thread, but here goes anyway." Actually you brought up a very important point. I've met many interesting people, some not even hikers, by talking to the people I've met on and along the trail. If you really want to to get the full flavor of the trail, do it by being open to all, don't be an elitist.

Footslogger

02-22-2005, 10:00

Character is what you do when no one is looking.
:dance
Rain Man===================================
I don't disagree with you Rain Man ...and truth be told, if I was out for a day hike and found some snacks/beverages along the trail that were clearly marked for thru-hikers or an individual hiker I wouldn't take any.

My original post was poorly worded. I think what I attempted to say (and didn't do a very good job of) was that it's not possible to control who is going to get magic that is left along the trail. That, as you point out very well, is up to the individual hiker's conscience.

'Slogger
AT 2003

Lone Wolf

02-22-2005, 10:12

Fhart is right. Get to know non thru-hikers and locals. Thru-hikers are cliqueish and boring. Did I mention self centered? All they want to talk about is mileage, gear and how much thier gear weighs. I'll hang with section/day hikers any time.

kentucky

02-22-2005, 10:46

I have run into trail magic and like most things its just timing! a wolf! I would agree on thrue hiking with you.I was out hiking the parts of the pct and ended up all over the kings canyon park and the sequioa park its much more fun to explore than just going in one direction all the time and ended at the rainbow gathering:dance kentucky

Rain Man

02-22-2005, 17:32

I don't disagree with you Rain Man ...and truth be told, if I was out for a day hike and found some snacks/beverages along the trail that were clearly marked for thru-hikers or an individual hiker I wouldn't take any.

Slogger, I don't disagree with you either. The question is so broad... I could think of a dozen different scenarios and give you two or three dozen "correct" answers, I think.

In other words, "it all depends....." Like most ethical questions the simple answers are often the most questionable ones.
:sun
Rain Man

.

Drum Stick

02-23-2005, 08:53

After more thought: I remember at least a few times on the trail where day hikers were spreading the magic heavily. And I recall on one frozen snowy day in Maine how the Two Ladies (non thrus) prepared hot cocoa for a thru who arrived and was shivering violently. The Two Ladies proceeded to pass out the hot beverage as we packed 13 people into an 8-person shelter. Day hikers are part of our family, they spread good will, and they should not be denied it.

You talk about scenarios! and I agree there are many, but imagine this one. You are a day hiker out at a shelter spreading the good will and feeling really good about the hiking community, the next moment you are being asked if you are a thru as test to be on the receiving end of good will. It just ain't right. Can you imagine if the day hikers started asking each other, are you a day hiker?
Drum Stick