View Full Version : Daily Hygeine Habits
beaudetious
09-06-2011, 09:01
Your response to this question may vary depending on the distance you are hiking, but what do you do to maintain at least an appearance of personal hygiene while on the trail?
As a section hiker (3 days at a time usually), I'm satisfied with remembering to brush my teeth after dinner.
What about tick management, after toilet care, grime removal, etc?
A recent thru hiker (Rusty Bumper) mentioned his strategy here: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=354936
What about the rest of you?
Brushing teeth morning and evening is a must for me. Just like washing my hands with soap or hand sanitizer as often as possible. I was amazed how refreshing a little thing like combing your hair could be on a long distance hike. Taking a quick sponge bath is to.
Other than that I'm comfortable with my funk.
Tick management? Just look or don't be ashamed to ask someone in your hiker family to help you look. Reciprocate. Daddy always told me don't be humble when it comes to stuff like that.
On another note, I'm convinced most people get sick on the trail more often from eating out of someone else's food bag than from drinking "bad water".
Blissful
09-06-2011, 13:12
Baby wipes work good.
Grime? A shower is only a few days away...
Ticks - long pants and socks treated beforehand with pyrethrin and use DEET
Cookerhiker
09-06-2011, 14:40
Brush & floss the teeth
Use hand sanitizer
Comb my hair (sometimes)
Wash legs, feet, hands, & face in creek - on my recent Colorado Trail hike, Northern Harrier gave himself full body wash in several creeks where we camped
Unusual for long-distance hikers: wash my breakfast and dinner dishes with hot soapy (biodegradable camp soap) water.
Trailweaver
09-06-2011, 15:46
Please, please, please do not give yourself a bath is what is our drinking water!!!!! Take a pan of water away from the creek and bathe and rinse as many times as it takes, but please don't do it in or near the creek.
Having ranted, and now I will apologize for ranting, I will try to remain sane.
I always brush my teeth. It makes me feel better and makes other hikers around me feel better.
I take a small comb to use so I won't scare people on the trail.
I always wash my hands after a bathroom break and before any meal preparation. I never let people eat out of my gorp bag. If I share, I pour into their hand or offer another bag. Never had an upset stomach on the trail and don't want to break my record for that.
I use a pan of water and a bandana to wash off at the end of the day because I sleep better if I'm not sticky with sweat. Other hikers use baby wipes, or do nothing. . . it's all personal preference. When you're washing up is a good time to check for ticks. I've never found one on me - I think it's because I always wear long pants. Never had poison ivy either, ditto.
I think a good shower at a hotel/motel is nice after a week, but again, it's personal preference. I would have to wash my hair.
Spirit Walker
09-06-2011, 20:21
I share a sleeping bag with my husband - so I think it's especially important to stay reasonably clean. Even before we began hiking together I always cleaned up at the end of the day if there was any water available. On the AT I'd take a gallon bag of water into the woods and some biodegradable soap and wash up well. When it was warm, I'd swim if there was a lake or good creek. No soap, but it still refreshes to get wet all over. One of the hardest parts of western hiking for me is that campsites near water are so scarce. I find I feel much happier after I get clean. I also take care of hair and teeth both morning and evening. Town stops at least once a week meant hot showers and clean clothes. Kept me hiking.
Ladytrekker
09-06-2011, 20:33
I use biodegradeable wipes to keep clean. As stated above by Spokes I also got the same advice from a long distance hiker friend of mine who told me never put my hand in someone elses food bag and never let them put their hand in yours, so I follow that direction. I also carry a bandana and I get it wet whenever I can and just keep myself wiped down it keeps the sweat and dirt at bay. Its really bad when you smell yourself.
Brush teeth morning and night; floss nightly. Wash hands after bathroom break and before food preparation. Tick management by permethryn treated clothing, Deet, personal inspection, and hoping there are none where I can't see. I don't worry about grime. I figure I'm on the inside looking out.
- Brush teeth daily after breakfast, unless there's just not enough water on the trail
- Wash privates instead of use TP after #1 and #2
- Use hand sanitizer after #2
- Keep hair in braid and brush and re-braid only when necessary, but usually after a shower in town
- Wash feet and legs daily before bed with bandana and 1/2 cup water
- Sometimes wash face or more with bandana in a nice creek downstream from trail
aaronthebugbuffet
09-06-2011, 22:31
-Brush teeth if out for more than one night
-wet wipes for the b-hole
-hand sanitizer
That's about it.
Yeah I basically just brush teeth too occasionally jump in lake esp out west mostly I just deal w it
tridavis
09-22-2011, 15:04
I share a sleeping bag with my husband - so I think it's especially important to stay reasonably clean. Even before we began hiking together I always cleaned up at the end of the day if there was any water available. On the AT I'd take a gallon bag of water into the woods and some biodegradable soap and wash up well. When it was warm, I'd swim if there was a lake or good creek. No soap, but it still refreshes to get wet all over. One of the hardest parts of western hiking for me is that campsites near water are so scarce. I find I feel much happier after I get clean. I also take care of hair and teeth both morning and evening. Town stops at least once a week meant hot showers and clean clothes. Kept me hiking.
This is what I do. I care a 10L collapsible bag and use it to "shower off" at the end of the day. I don't care how dang cold it is or how tired I am, I can't go to bed dirty....no ifs, ands, or butts. Also swim when I can if it isn't too cold.
RWheeler
09-22-2011, 19:21
This being said, how do people typically package toothpaste(/gel?) for use on the trail? And do you just get some water to rinse with, spit it out away from water sources/camp/etc?
aaronthebugbuffet
09-22-2011, 19:39
This being said, how do people typically package toothpaste(/gel?) for use on the trail? And do you just get some water to rinse with, spit it out away from water sources/camp/etc?
Check out this link about toothpaste dots.http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=51548
(http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=51548)I usually just carry the small tube. You don't really need to use very much at a time.
I treat the spit pretty much like other bodily waste. Deposit away from water sources and where other people aren't likely to walk or set up camp. I scratch up a little ground with my foot and cover it back up.
RWheeler
09-22-2011, 20:00
Check out this link about toothpaste dots.http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=51548
(http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=51548)I usually just carry the small tube. You don't really need to use very much at a time.
I treat the spit pretty much like other bodily waste. Deposit away from water sources and where other people aren't likely to walk or set up camp. I scratch up a little ground with my foot and cover it back up.
I read about dots elsewhere, but I figured the drying that it requires would mean that I'd need to make them all in advance... and I didn't really know how to work out the logistics of mail drops with the drops and such.
However, I'll probably just carry a travel-sized tube of toothpaste and buy new ones whenever I need them (or grab them from hiker boxes possibly?). Unless the dots are easy enough to pack away - the best I could think of would be something like an empty M&Ms Minis container just chock full of them. But that seems like a lot to carry, so I dunno...
theinfamousj
09-23-2011, 02:11
This being said, how do people typically package toothpaste(/gel?) for use on the trail? And do you just get some water to rinse with, spit it out away from water sources/camp/etc?
I will usually just wet my tooth brush and then dip it into a little round pot of baking soda. I will put up with the yicky taste of baking soda for the convenience of knowing that when I spit on the ground it is biodegradable.
However, every so often I get a craving for real toothpaste. When that happens, I squirt some toothpaste from a full sized tube into a little round pot and then dip the tooth brush into that to get some on the brush.
Toothpaste, though it comes in a tube, doesn't have to remain in a tube. One of those tiny round pots full squeezed from your tube at home is easier than struggling to refill a travel tube. :)
aaronthebugbuffet
09-23-2011, 02:34
Toothpaste, though it comes in a tube, doesn't have to remain in a tube. One of those tiny round pots full squeezed from your tube at home is easier than struggling to refill a travel tube. :)
People refill toothpaste tubes?
sounds crazy
leftorright
01-07-2012, 04:40
I have a friend who went to africa for three months - not many showers where she was. Her hair solution was brilliant. She braided her rather long hair into tiny braids all over and then kept it tied back with a bandana. I've since done this and it elminates the greasy hair on my face feeling that drives me insane.
I only get out in summer, so I rinse myself off, no soap while swimming every day. Brushing my teeth is a must twice a day though.
Brush teeth at the end of the day. Wipe with wet wipes, then clean hands with another wet wipe and then use hand sanitizer. If creeks are available, I give myself a dundo bath, otherwise I get a wet wipe bath at the end of the day along with cleaning my ears with q tips. I don't check specifically for ticks. If I find it when bathing, great, but otherwise I probably can't reach it, so why bother? I do treat my clothes with permithrin. First thing in the morning I wipe my eyes out with a clean tissue.
quilteresq
01-07-2012, 09:49
Having found a tick in the fold between my leg and butt cheek before, I think I'll pass on having others check me for ticks. They wind up invariably on my stomach, places I wouldn't want other folks to look, or near my hairline.
Baby wipes and hand sanitizer are so new to the trail. I just carry a tiny bottle (2 ounce nalgene - about 1" tall) of Dr. Bronners soap. I use a tiny drop of this to wash my hands (away from the creek) after going to the privy (or other mission). At times, I have also cut a slice off or some bar soap (1/8th bar) and carried that in a little zip lock. I brush my teeth before I go to bed with a half toothbrush and a sample size tube of Toms of Maine toothpaste (or whatever is available). I also carry a piece of dental floss for when something gets stuck, but I don't floss that often on the trail. Deodorant is a stupid waste of time and weight and other things on the trail -- rarely do you see a true experienced trekker with it. I keep my toes and fingernails clean and trimmed with a little fingernail tool and (of course) check for ticks and other issues. That's about it. -- Good thread.
This being said, how do people typically package toothpaste(/gel?) for use on the trail? And do you just get some water to rinse with, spit it out away from water sources/camp/etc?I've been carrying my toothpaste in a 35mm film canister (same one!) since my first hike over 38 years ago:
http://docsigma.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/667220_film_canister.jpg
I (http://docsigma.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/667220_film_canister.jpg) clean it completely every few hikes and just squeeze in enough for my hike before starting out. If you keep the paste from getting on the outer ring/cap, it completely conceals the smell from bears, who BTW, love toothpaste! I usually spit/rinse in a fire ring and pour the remainder of my rinse cup of water over it when done. No trace visible when finished. If no fire ring, I spit/rinse away from camp and make sure no trace visible on the ground when done.
rusty bumper
01-07-2012, 12:18
In the evening, I put about 1" of water in a small plastic margarine container (my sink), added a couple drops of Dr. Bronners soap, and then soaked the soap and water mixture in to an MSR Micro Towel. I used one side of that towel to wipe off my face, ears, neck, arms, hands, legs and feet in that order. I folded the towel over to expose the unused side, set it back in the sink, and then used it the following morning. I also carried a supply of baby wipes that I dried out before the hike....they weigh practically nothing without the water. I rehydrated one of those every evening and used it to wash my privates...front and back. After use I kept the wipes in a separate zip-lock that I disposed of when I got to town.
In the morning I used the clean, wet side of the micro towel to wash my face and get the clinkers out of my eyes. During the day at a water stop, I rinsed out the towel and hung it on my pack to make it ready for the coming evening. Also in the morning, I brushed my teeth using just a tiny bit of toothpaste.....you really don't need very much. Normally I brushed outside my tent and spit the foam out away from the campsite, but sometimes I'd just do the brushing in my tent and swallow the foam...that was tough to do the first few times, but after a while I got used to it. I also ran a comb thru my hair and beard every morning to make myself presentable...hah!
I should have said that I wear long boxer briefs, so the chances of them getting into my crotch is significantly reduced. I'm really only worried about them getting onto my back, but I can't check my back myself if I wanted to.
Good to have a routine. When I do ablutions in the field I boil up some water, then wash from the top of my head down to my ankles. I don't use soap. I start at the top and work my way down. Back is tricky, but do-able. Feels great, especially in winter. A roll in the snow supposed to work wonders also, but I haven't done that in awhile.
Teeth I do with a twig after meals. No toothpaste. Yellow birch is like wintergreen, and has some medicinal qualities as well as flavour. Feet and ankle I do during my hike. I wash my hands before meals and after defication. No soap. Just leaves or snow, then later with water, or right away with water if the business didn't go that well and I feel the urge to get extra clean. I use leaves or snow or moss instead of toilet paper. If it was irregular, like diahrea, then I would really pay alot of attention, and probably do the head to toe ablutions right away. Haven't had that problem in the field yet, probably because I tend to hike away from people. I've experimented using a little white ash for soap, shampoo, toothpaste, or whatever, but it hasn't become a habit. It would be a good thing to do after a bout of diahrea. I use some alcohol as antiseptic also sometimes, like cleaning a deep cut, or to toughen up my feet, or as mouth rinse if it is ethanol based. I hike locally, so I buy the good stuff when its locally available, which is 99% ethanol, and has just enough camphor and denaturium so that you won't drink it. Makes the best alcohol fuel, and is safest for first aid and hygiene. I dilute it for first aid and hygiene. I only carry about 4oz because I use woodmost or vegetable oil as fuel, and only use alcohol for fuel rarely, saving it for first aid and hygiene, using of it for my feet towards the end of a trip. I don't use it regularly for washing my hands after deficating, but I would after a case of diarhea.
Can't say I've established a regular routine, but I would if I hiked more regularly, or went on a longer section hike. Good thing to do. Think about it, and practice it, and it will evolve into a routine.
On a thru-hike or long section hike with resupplies, a small cheap bottle of gin or vodka doesn't work for fuel, but is excellent for first aid and hygiene. They are both made by making pretty much pure ethanol, and then diluting it down with water, and in the case of gin, adding juniper and other spices. Great to splash under your pits and stuff, and as aftershave, and mouth rinse. Also drinkable, in moderation. Beside gins or vodka, there might be similar spirits available along certain part of the AT that could be put to similar uses. Don't know. Just say'in.
daddytwosticks
01-07-2012, 19:59
If I had vodka along on my hike, I would not be cleaning my armpits with it. :)
beaudetious
01-07-2012, 21:07
It's nice to see a thread here that doesn't evolve (devolve?) into sniping and trolling. Oh crap! Did I just jinx this thread?
rocketsocks
08-14-2012, 19:39
Your response to this question may vary depending on the distance you are hiking, but what do you do to maintain at least an appearance of personal hygiene while on the trail?
As a section hiker (3 days at a time usually), I'm satisfied with remembering to brush my teeth after dinner.
What about tick management, after toilet care, grime removal, etc?
A recent thru hiker (Rusty Bumper) mentioned his strategy here: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=354936
What about the rest of you?one of my favorite pack towels is the MSR packtowel ultralite, it dries better than a bandana, and absorbs like a split grain leather shammy.....what say you-ins?
Wise Old Owl
08-14-2012, 21:13
Ivory travel size? ...it floats.
1) Poop - in privy or cat-hole
2) Pour a little drop Dr. Brommer's on hand, wet, wash, rinse - takes about 6 ounces of water total
3) Brush teeth with sample size Tom's of Maine toothpaste - spit in small hole and rinse
4) Hike
5) Late afternoon, in season, Wet pack towel in water source - soaking wet, walk away from source and get naked, wipe myself head to toe, repeat 2-3 times - wringing out towel away from water source
6) Dunk my head in water source downstream from collection area (if applicable and appropriate)
7) Of course if there is a swimming hole, I swim
8) Brush teeth again
For cold weather backpacking, I curtail the pack-cloth bathing a bit but I've been known to take a sheep dip in some pretty cold temps - - makes everything all good again.
Obviously, no soap in creeks
So what do you do about the stink? Clean is good but stink on you and your gear. how do you guys handle that
So what do you do about the stink? Clean is good but stink on you and your gear. how do you guys handle that
After a week of hiking, I pass day hikers and say "pheww, did you smell that guy? He smelled like laundry soap" - - this is really true - - my opinion of what smells natural (when I'm on-trail) really changes. I do wash my silky polyester shirt or under armor bottoms sometimes using a little dr bronners in a nalgene bottle - add a few drops, stuff the shirt or drawers in, top with water, repeat, rinse cycle and hang in the sun to dry - works great.
Ultimately, you hit a town, do laundry (I still hate scented soaps though), shower, and wash whatever dirty gear you have - - good to go for another week.
Oh, FWIW I also carry clean boxer shorts for sleeping only (in the warm months) - they just stay in my sleeping bag
After a week of hiking, I pass day hikers and say "pheww, did you smell that guy? He smelled like laundry soap" - - this is really true - - my opinion of what smells natural (when I'm on-trail) really changes. I do wash my silky polyester shirt or under armor bottoms sometimes using a little dr bronners in a nalgene bottle - add a few drops, stuff the shirt or drawers in, top with water, repeat, rinse cycle and hang in the sun to dry - works great.
Ultimately, you hit a town, do laundry (I still hate scented soaps though), shower, and wash whatever dirty gear you have - - good to go for another week.
Oh, FWIW I also carry clean boxer shorts for sleeping only (in the warm months) - they just stay in my sleeping bag
Yeah but it seems the stink permiates everything. Once it gets warmed up wow.
Hairbear
08-15-2012, 19:01
i took this idea from a you tube video so two thumbs to who ever posted it .take a vacume seal bag 8 inches wide and 18 inches long seal it at the bottom there you go instant light weight bucket.i fill this bag at water sources,now you can take it with you to your camp site. now you have a bag of water at your hammock that can be used for anything.i have filtered water from it, used the water as a sponge bath,used it for a washing machine,fire extinguisher.for a bath take a small cut to order shammie rag(sham wow is a good example)this holds alot of water get yourself wet then some bio degradeable soap now wash your self off like you were a car.now your clean throw your laundy in the bag one piece at a time agitate with your fingers now you have clean clothes with the same water.wait your not done yet,save the water to put out your cook fire.i put the bag in the pouch my hammock came in.it can hang from the pull tie and not spill (you can now pour it like a pitcher).its nice not to have to stand on the creek bank and pump water through your filter you can just fill and go.this stuff doesnt weigh much and can help in so many ways.hope this helps dont over look it its the handiest thing i carry pound for pound.
Hairbear
08-15-2012, 19:05
oh i forgot a loufa sponge with two string tied on on each side makes a very good back scrubber and hidden tick remover.just use it like you would a towel the abrasive nature of the loufa takes the tick off.
TopHills
10-11-2012, 07:39
Maintaining good hygiene habits is very important even if you are in a long distance hike. Brushing your teeth, using a hand sanitizer and taking a quick sponge bath is really important to keep you fit and healthy.
swjohnsey
10-11-2012, 08:26
Bathing is mostly for astetics. I don't do anything between towns. I will bathe, shave, brush my teeth if I come across a nice lake with sandy bottom.
mamamiapdx
10-11-2012, 22:32
I always use costco moist wipes once in camp. They are good to wipe your body too.
Another Kevin
10-12-2012, 00:08
I spend a couple-three ounces of pack weight on a nylon bucket, and carry a half-bucket away from a water source. Wash with a few drops of Dr Bronners and a wet bandana, rinse off with water from the bucket, dry off on a little piece of car chamois. It's amazing how much better that makes me feel, and how cold the water can be if I can crawl right into a warm sleeping bag afterward. Nevertheless, if someone has a campfire going, I might borrow a few hot coals, boil up a quart of water, and use it to take the chill off the stuff in the bucket.
Sometimes if it looks as if the weather will cooperate, I'll wash liner socks, T-shirt and shorts in soapy water in my cookpot, and rinse them in the pail. Greywater goes in a cathole, or gets sprinkled widely, depending on local conditions. If I expect a lot of mud, I'll bring the cut-off head of an old junky toothbrush that I can use to scrub feet and get under fingernails.
I wash my cup and spork in soapy water in my cookpot, and then rinse the whole shebang with fresh water, if I'm cooking anywhere near a water source. Otherwise, I'll just try to wash the cup and spork before I use them again. Wash water doesn't matter too much; rinse water gets filtered. The cookpot will get sterilized anyway, the next time I use it. Greywater goes in a cathole or gets sprinkled widely, depending on local conditions.
Brush and floss nightly. Spit in a cathole or spray it widely (PHTTTTHTHTHHT!) depending.... Wash hands after toileting, and before cooking. Use hand sanitizer before any food handling, even grabbing a snack.
Any cut, scrape or burn gets an immediate wash (or, in the worst case, a wash near the next water source) in soap and water. Rinse with filtered water. For a blistered burn or a dirty cut, also apply bacitracin-neomycin-polymyxin ointment.
Never foul a water source.
I do bring a comb on the trail. In my college days, I was a little more than a clueless weekender, did some section hikes. I adopted a buzz-cut for those, and the lack of a comb didn't matter.
Tick management: I can inspect most places on myself with the aid of a hand mirror. Conveniently, my compass has a sighting mirror, so that's what I use. I don't think I've ever had a tick get up my compression shorts. I also use enough DEET that I seldom get any ticks, anywhere. But I carry tweezers just in case.
Mountain Mike
10-12-2012, 00:43
Pack covers make great sinks. I even used one at Kennedy meadows as a small tub. Here I am on the Long Trail doing laundry. http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=50339&c=562
hikingirl
11-06-2012, 21:32
I am doing a thru hike in April 2013. Never been backpacking. Periods can be tough. Have not seen any advice on here from women on how they deal with this?
they dont deal with it cause it dont happen on the trail.
i think you will find ample info in the ladies only threads. i dont go there because it frightens me the way women gang up on us manly men.
Dr. Professor
11-06-2012, 22:41
Hair: best approach = cut short prior to hike.
Skin: best approach = wash as well as you can with the available water, occasional camp soap, and occasional wipes. Real bathing happens in towns. You will yetify.
Teeth: IMO, don't compromise. I carry an electrical toothbrush which holds a week + charge. Each morning after brunch, I brush, then floss, then brush. This, for me, is a necessary weight sacrifice. I do not ever want to risk a dental emergency in the wilderness. Beyond that, clean teeth make me feel human.
Cherokee Bill
11-06-2012, 23:58
Baths in creeks! Even though filtered, our drinking water comes from the creek! The same place that farm animals, upstream, drink, pee & poop :eek:
Josh Calhoun
11-07-2012, 11:45
brush teeth morning and evening
wash hands or sanitizer after #2
every couple days use a bandana and soap on stinky areas.
brush my hair at the end of every day. "long hair"
pretty much it
I'm seriously considering tossing some food service quality powder lined disposable gloves in my pack and using them for BM's .
I'll add so more to my bounce box
I am doing a thru hike in April 2013. Never been backpacking. Periods can be tough. Have not seen any advice on here from women on how they deal with this?
If I'm not mistaken there are ways to stop your period from happening for long periods of time
Again if if I'm not mistaken you have to start the process well ahead of the time that you need your periods to stop
so you need to talk to your OB/GYN about it ASAP
If you are only doing sections a water bladder works great as a shower, what you do is take a bladder such as a platypus hang it up side down from a tree and use the nozzle as a shower head works great. RED-DOG
HikerMom58
11-07-2012, 14:38
I am doing a thru hike in April 2013. Never been backpacking. Periods can be tough. Have not seen any advice on here from women on how they deal with this?
There are women's threads on this subject hikingirl. Many ways to deal.... I found this one on a goggle search.
Using Pantyliners during long distance hiking (http://www.whiteblaze.net/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=do%20women%20menstruate%20when%20long%20distant% 20hiking&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CFEQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whiteblaze.net%2Fforum%2Fshow thread.php%3F10720-Using-Pantyliners-during-long-distance-hiking&ei=16qaUKmiCInm2QW2oYD4Cw&usg=AFQjCNHfKmZD6d_tBH_QHD5ZHL9REqSNYA)www.whitebl aze.net › Forum (http://www.whiteblaze.net/url?url=http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forum.php&rct=j&sa=X&ei=16qaUKmiCInm2QW2oYD4Cw&ved=0CFIQ6QUoADAE&q=do+women+menstruate+when+long+distant+hiking&usg=AFQjCNELi4GnRZ_7L4feMtwABNm15J4cSg) › Appalachian Trail Forums (http://www.whiteblaze.net/url?url=http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php%3F56-Appalachian-Trail-Forums&rct=j&sa=X&ei=16qaUKmiCInm2QW2oYD4Cw&ved=0CFMQ6QUoATAE&q=do+women+menstruate+when+long+distant+hiking&usg=AFQjCNEEb_FPquFhXNj8N9o5-D9fT1yAdA)
they dont deal with it cause it dont happen on the trail.
i think you will find ample info in the ladies only threads. i dont go there because it frightens me the way women gang up on us manly men.
snifur- how can you say- "it don't happen on the trail"... it's just not true.
And yes, you should be afraid... BE VERY AFRAID... LOL ;)