View Full Version : Landowner Issues When Rivers Change Course
Interesting report (http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/91915/)on Vermont Public Radio about how flooding associated with Hurricane Irene changed the course of rivers and the legal issues it now presents to landowners. It's likely to change the face of property ownership rights for many under the legal principle known as "Riparian Water Rights" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riparian_water_rights).
I wonder if this legal battle will extend to the Green Mountain Club, ATC, or other groups where the rivers changed path altered the trail to now fall on "someone else" property?
I saw one video where the day after the town engineer had an excavator "putting the river back where it supposed to be" without an EIS or getting the state or feds involved. I think most people in VT are pretty reasonable and fair and won't take advantage.
Doc Mike
09-08-2011, 16:26
I I think most people in VT are pretty reasonable and fair and won't take advantage.
hahahhhahhahahhahhahhahahha There is no place on gods green earth where this statement is true!!!
hahahhhahhahahhahhahhahahha There is no place on gods green earth where this statement is true!!!
Yeah, not on gods green earth because religious people tend to be hypocrites. For mere mortals that have known each other for years or been friends of the trail, there probably wouldn't be a problem.
Doc Mike
09-08-2011, 16:44
Yeah, not on gods green earth because religious people tend to be hypocrites. For mere mortals that have known each other for years or been friends of the trail, there probably wouldn't be a problem.
Let me guess you ride your unicorn on the trail also. GET REAL.
Destiny2012
09-08-2011, 16:45
He might regret his hasty actions with due to possible legal actions.
Blissful
09-08-2011, 18:02
Yeah, not on gods green earth because religious people tend to be hypocrites.
I'm sure you didn't mean this...
Don Newcomb
09-08-2011, 19:51
There's a wealth of case law on natural land changes. I once heard of a case in California where a large block of land slumped down a hillside, more or less, intact. Both property owners sued for the rights to the land and the courts ruled that the owner of the land that slumped over the other's land owned the whole mess.
I'm sure you didn't mean this...
Sorry if it offended you, I picked on the term Doc Mike used and wasn't singling out any one religion, but yeah look around, many are hypocrites. He's also the one that implied everyone is a land grabber. Do you think that's natural?
Let me guess you ride your unicorn on the trail also. GET REAL.
Where do you live?
Most people I know come together in time of crisis, they don't loot and steal what's not theirs. Will boundries be changed because of the flood? Most likely, but yes, I believe people will be fair and equitable. You don't have to agree, but don't make it sound like everyone in the world is a xxxxxxxx.
Let's not turn this into a religious debate. I am an atheist, and I use the term "god's green earth" as colloquial expression. (Along with other, more pointed phrases, that Sr. Helen would not have approved of. ;) )
Fair to say most people will pull together in a crisis..but there is always someone who takes advantage of a situation too. :(
hikerboy57
09-08-2011, 20:37
i think I would prefer sly as a neighbor to doc. I agree. Im a jaded NYer, and yeah, even here, in times of crisis we pull together(please dont remind me of the blackout looting that took place during the crack epidemic and come down to Ground Zero this sunday.And, I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong. I tend to look for the good in people, not try to find the bad.have a little more faith in your fellow man.you might need his help one day.
gpburdelljr
09-08-2011, 20:37
There's a wealth of case law on natural land changes. I once heard of a case in California where a large block of land slumped down a hillside, more or less, intact. Both property owners sued for the rights to the land and the courts ruled that the owner of the land that slumped over the other's land owned the whole mess.
That wasn't a real case. it was a practical joke on a lawyer and is described in Mark Twain's book "Roughing It".
Blissful
09-08-2011, 20:47
even here, in times of crisis we pull together(please dont remind me of the blackout looting that took place during the crack epidemic and come down to Ground Zero this sunday.
I just saw the TLC show on the plane that went into WTC II. Oh was an awful day Thinking of you all down there.
I am too seeing the awful flooding and the torn up towns in the Catskills where I grew up (I am born and bred in NY BTW). We need to come together and hep each other out.
hikerboy57
09-08-2011, 20:56
I just saw the TLC show on the plane that went into WTC II. Oh was an awful day Thinking of you all down there.
I am too seeing the awful flooding and the torn up towns in the Catskills where I grew up (I am born and bred in NY BTW). We need to come together and hep each other out.
One of my coworkers had his family in windham, kept them there thru Irene, thinking they would be safer up there than here. Windham has almost completely washed away, took him 10 hours last monday to get up there and get them out and back safely. Its truly a disaster area in so many areas-PA,NJ,NY VT.there are a lot of people out there hurting bigtime. I dont know if there are any agencies that would take donations to help, but the trails have plenty of work to do as well.
and somehow, we'll get through it. when we come together, we always do.
Let's not turn this into a religious debate.
Of course you're right. Personal apologies to Blissful, who I know is religious and don't consider a hypocrite.
Don Newcomb
09-09-2011, 09:31
That wasn't a real case. it was a practical joke on a lawyer and is described in Mark Twain's book "Roughing It". OK. I once read "Roughing It" but I thought I recalled the story from a class I took. That does not change the fact that there is a wealth of case law on natural land changes. "Possession is 9/10 of the law" does not mean, "I get to keep it." It means that the bulk of law deals with property.
Doc Mike
09-09-2011, 10:48
There are always those that will take advantage of any situation no matter where you live. multiple examples can be found in any situation including 9/11 see the government report on the multiple charities that ripped people off over in the name of 9/11. looters during hurricanes in new orleans or charleston SC. My point is there are always those that will try to take advantage if you don't believe that then you must never watch the news or live in real life.
I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong but I'm a realist so I know a certain percentage will.
Doc Mike
09-09-2011, 10:53
One of many examples from the fine people of vermont.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2011/08/31/vt_state_police_warn_of_looting_in_flooded_areas/
hikerboy57
09-09-2011, 11:00
There are always those that will take advantage of any situation no matter where you live. multiple examples can be found in any situation including 9/11 see the government report on the multiple charities that ripped people off over in the name of 9/11. looters during hurricanes in new orleans or charleston SC. My point is there are always those that will try to take advantage if you don't believe that then you must never watch the news or live in real life.
I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong but I'm a realist so I know a certain percentage will.the charities you cite were not based in NY and we took care of our own. the looting in new orleans wasnt looting, it was survival.there are plenty of people who made billions while the housing bubble imploded. yes, there are a small percentage of "evildoers" out there, but the compassion and cooperation that arises from tragedies and natural disasters far outweighs the bad. I only wish our government could be as effective in getting things done, and caring about all of us.
One of many examples from the fine people of vermont.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2011/08/31/vt_state_police_warn_of_looting_in_flooded_areas/
One of many? How many?
If you want to insist everyone is a scum bag like you did in your first post go ahead. The media always reports about the exception to the rule, the crooks and the low lives. It doesn't change the fact there are more good people than bad out there.
I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong but I'm a realist so I know a certain percentage will.
You will? Then start doing it.
Doc Mike
09-09-2011, 11:27
the charities you cite were not based in NY and we took care of our own. the looting in new orleans wasnt looting, it was survival.there are plenty of people who made billions while the housing bubble imploded. yes, there are a small percentage of "evildoers" out there, but the compassion and cooperation that arises from tragedies and natural disasters far outweighs the bad. I only wish our government could be as effective in getting things done, and caring about all of us.
http://gawker.com/5834426/the-911-charity-fraud-shame-list
Might want to check your facts
Doc Mike
09-09-2011, 11:32
One of many? How many?
If you want to insist everyone is a scum bag like you did in your first post go ahead. The media always reports about the exception to the rule, the crooks and the low lives. It doesn't change the fact there are more good people than bad out there.
I love the name calling how mature. There are more good than bad but the original statement implied that everyone in vermont was good which a false statement. If you want to know how many bad people there are in vermont do what I did just google it. I just gave you the first link. The first sign that your losing a debate is name calling....
hikerboy57
09-09-2011, 11:48
http://gawker.com/5834426/the-911-charity-fraud-shame-list
Might want to check your factsactually you just verified my statement, none of these 3 "charities" were NY based.check your own facts.Doc Mike, I fell sad when people go out of their way to find the bad apple. and you're not even giving sly and myself the "benefit of the doubt", forget about others. and as far as "looting goes" dont be so quick to judge. with no food and water for days,many stole simply to take care of their families. desparation sometimes leads to behavior that never ever would have been considered until they felt they had no other choice. there will always be someone out there looking to profit from someone elses misery, but by far, its the exception, not the rule.