View Full Version : Maps/Trail Guides
fireneck
09-11-2011, 04:23
n00b here.
Wondering how important it is to carry maps and or guide book. Looking for any thoughts and opinions.
Hikes in Rain
09-11-2011, 08:46
It's a very well marked and maintained trail, for the most part, so it's certainly possible to go without. But I find that both maps and guidebook enhance the experience far more than enough to justify the negligible weight. Maps give you a "big picture" look at the land around you, and can provide you with alternative routes for emergencies or just for fun. Guidebooks can tell you how much farther the spring or shelter might be, and provide insight to the history of the area you're in.
MannDude
09-11-2011, 11:47
I would also imagine a map would be nice for a 'visual reference' of where you are in the world. I'd like the idea of being able to whip out a map, point my finger on it and know, "Ah, so thats where I am", even if I wasn't lost to begin with.
My estimate is that less than half of all thru-hikers carry maps. They just follow the white blazes and ask others hikers who do carry maps for information. Most will carry the pages of the guide or data books. Managing the large number of maps is a pain in the neck. The maps themselves are a odd collection of different types built for another purpose and adapted for trail use. All are a cash cow for some political orginization. Many are so outdated that they are wrong. They are also expensive. The day is near when the AT map plus GPS will be available as an APP for a I-phone and you will be using it just like it works in a car.
Kerosene
09-12-2011, 10:08
During my section hikes over many years I've found both maps and guidebooks to be vital. I either re-type relevant guidebook info and condense it down to a few sheets of 2-sided paper covering 100+ miles, or copy and shrink the actual pages (8 pages/side). Guidebook info has helped me find/stay on a trail, while maps have helped me figure out the best way to get off the trail. Sometimes I just bring a photocopy of part of a map to save a bit of weight. I probably refer to guidebook pages 1-2 times a day, and the map less than daily.
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At the top of Moosilaukee in heavy fog with thunderstorms in the area nearing dusk I hunkered down behind a rock to figure out which way the AT went, as you couldn't see the next blaze and I knew there were multiple trails heading downhill from this point.
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In northern Virginia I ran into a teenage girl heading south with a little bookbag, about 4 miles south of Bears Den Hostel. It was late afternoon, and I knew that there wasn't another road crossing for quite a while, so I asked where she was going. She was understandably reticent, but eventually I pulled out my map and convinced her that she was hiking in the wrong direction. Her friends had dropped her off at the main road and she was turned around. It would have been a cold night for her otherwise.
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I've used maps to figure out how to bail also, usually due to an injury. Smartphones are starting to get to the point where they can replace maps, but power and dampness can still be problems.
peakbagger
09-12-2011, 10:56
The recent flooding in VT, NH and ME caused many unexpected washouts and unpassable streams. Hikers without maps would not have many options beyond hoping someone came along with a map or setting up camp and waiting it out. Those with maps had the option of taking a bypass or heading out off the trail to wait it out. I do agree that on the majority of the trail they may be be regarded as nonessential but when they are needed in remote areas, they can be life saver.
I have personally used maps several times to find water sources well off trail during dry conditions when listed water sources along the trail were dry, once at Kirkridge shelter in NJ when the water wasnt turned, once at Pochuck shelter in NJ and twice in northern VA.
Odd Man Out
09-12-2011, 13:35
... Managing the large number of maps is a pain in the neck. The maps themselves are a odd collection of different types built for another purpose and adapted for trail use. All are a cash cow for some political orginization. Many are so outdated that they are wrong. They are also expensive...
I had wondered what type of maps are sold by the ATC. The picture on their web site indeed seems to show an "odd collection" as described. I thought maybe I could download all the USGS maps for free and print the parts I need, but this could be about a bazillion pages, depending on what resolution you need. For you map users out there, what scale of map do you find best meets your needs? If cropped, how far beyond the trail would you find useful information?
Odd Man Out
09-12-2011, 13:37
And a follow-up to my last question. Some of the USGS maps on-line are also pretty old. How recent would it need to be to be useful? Or is there a source of reliably up to date topo maps?
4eyedbuzzard
09-12-2011, 14:55
My estimate is that less than half of all thru-hikers carry maps. They just follow the white blazes and ask others hikers who do carry maps for information.
So apparently most thru-hikers do want and/or need maps (at least at times), but they are just too cheap to buy them or too lazy to carry them and feel it's okay to just let others pay for and carry the maps?
Most will carry the pages of the guide or data books. Managing the large number of maps is a pain in the neck. The maps themselves are a odd collection of different types built for another purpose and adapted for trail use. They are all pretty much derived from USGS topos. Where else would one find maps to adapt for any similar purpose? It's not like anyone is going to survey the AT and surrounding topography from scratch when topos already exist. You use the existing topo and show/highlight the route of the AT and other trails on it.
All are a cash cow for some political orginization. Many are so outdated that they are wrong. They are also expensive. ...Which political organization would they be cash cows for? The RNC, DNC, Libertarians, Tea Party, Communist Party? Last time I checked the ATC and other trail and hiking organizations weren't publicly endorsing any particular candidate(s). Do they lobby? Yes. But as much as I disagree with their policies at times, their focus is on conservation, education, maintenance, etc. - not politics. They are probably one of the absolute best examples of government allowing a non-governmental agency to run/manage a public interest.
1 inch = 1 mile works best for me. The worst kind of political groups sell most of the maps...trail clubs.
Lost Iowan
09-12-2011, 18:03
Moldy said they are expensive, yes, this may be true. Also, an app would come out for a phone. Wonderful in theory, but how will you re-charge the battery? Nothing beats paper, weight is as said, negligible, and most of the maps the ATC sells are water resistant.
Even having learned early on in life how to find direction, and know my reference points, I still carry a map if im going over territory I am not familiar with, and even some I know already.
Never hurts to be prepared, to borrow a saying. Take a map and guidebook, sometimes you just never know how the world will react.
hikerboy57
09-12-2011, 18:17
1 inch = 1 mile works best for me. The worst kind of political groups sell most of the maps...trail clubs.the atc sells trail maps, and they are undoubtedly the worst kind of political group?these trail clubs, the ones that maintain the trails you use are probably all commie pinkos.
Blissful
09-12-2011, 18:23
Beating a dead horse.
The map issue has been beaten to death on here. Do a search to find all the threads on it. I for one would not have wanted to go without a map with the storm conditions up north last few weeks and now damage etc. I don't care how well marked the trail supposedly is (which is certain areas it is not). Its foolish not to have resources to help you do your hike. I still carry maps for SNP.
hikerboy57
09-12-2011, 18:23
i always take maps, even on day hikes where Im familiar with the area.it gives me options if I want to change a loop or investigate a trail I havent been on. many ATC maps show side trails which can provide exit routes in an emergency, or sometimes a waterfall or ravine you never would have known about without one. Its hard to get lost on the AT with a few exceptions, especially above treeline, so are they absolutely necessary for a thru? No, but they can still be very useful.
Chaco Taco
09-14-2011, 11:49
carried a guidebook til New Hampshire then switched to maps til Katahdin just to have the extra trails around us in case we needed to bail
I brough the applicable maps and copied pages out of the thru-hiker's companion guidebook and looked at them everyday. They were like a Bible and I was constantly referring to them.
You don't actually need them because it's such a well marked trail, but the book tells you very important stuff like "West 0.3 miles, country market with Ben and Jerry's ice cream" or "great swimming hole" to help you plan your day accordingly :)
Managing the large number of maps is a pain in the neck. The maps themselves are a odd collection of different types built for another purpose and adapted for trail use. All are a cash cow for some political orginization. Many are so outdated that they are wrong. They are also expensive.
Seriously it only takes a few minutes to organize maps for the entire trail.
Yeah, thanks for your support! The official AT maps are produced by the various trail maintaining club and sold by the ATC and are an important source of income.
Considering they're only a dollar a day for a thru-hike, they're actually fairly cheap.
Well said, Sly.
I have a theory. I think there are far more people than would admit that don't know how to read a map, especially topos. I'm always amazed when I let somebody look at a map and they don't seem to know what they're loking at. There is a lot more to a map than just north, south, east, west, streams, and roads. If you know how to properly read a map, they are a wealth of information. If you don't, then they are just extra weight.
Chaco Taco
09-15-2011, 05:49
1 inch = 1 mile works best for me. The worst kind of political groups sell most of the maps...trail clubs.
Yea they are so awful. Chucked full of volunteers. What a buncha jerks, taking their free time to help maintain a trail. What are you going to say next, trail maintainers need to get a life? Trail Clubs only sell maps really that are put out by the ATC or AMC. Nat Geo puts out a map and the may have a political agenda but they arent the only ones that put out maps. DOnt forget about that awful group of jerks, ALDHA. I mean, I am a field editor so I can get in tight to push my agenda here in New Hampshire. DOnt bad mouth the trail clubs moldy, they help maintain the trails we all take for granted!
Chaco Taco
09-15-2011, 11:57
Yea they are so awful. Chucked full of volunteers. What a buncha jerks, taking their free time to help maintain a trail. What are you going to say next, trail maintainers need to get a life? Trail Clubs only sell maps really that are put out by the ATC or AMC. Nat Geo puts out a map and the may have a political agenda but they arent the only ones that put out maps. DOnt forget about that awful group of jerks, ALDHA. I mean, I am a field editor so I can get in tight to push my agenda here in New Hampshire. DOnt bad mouth the trail clubs moldy, they help maintain the trails we all take for granted!
So thanks to Walkinghome, as I stand corrected about the maps origins and such. However, not taking away from my original point of trail clubs being the worst kinds of political groups. Moldy, Id like to see you provide some proof behind your statement with actual cold hard facts that would lead us all to believe trail clubs to be so awful. Do enlighten us!
hikerboy57
09-15-2011, 12:33
So thanks to Walkinghome, as I stand corrected about the maps origins and such. However, not taking away from my original point of trail clubs being the worst kinds of political groups. Moldy, Id like to see you provide some proof behind your statement with actual cold hard facts that would lead us all to believe trail clubs to be so awful. Do enlighten us!On most of my maps, the trails are outlined in RED. Clearly this is a suggestion that Red Commies and pinkos were involved in manufacturing their propoganda trail "finders". Why all red on the Harriman maps?
Best advice I've seen? IF you have to ask if maps are needed or not, you should probably bring them. :)
Chaco Taco
09-15-2011, 13:52
On most of my maps, the trails are outlined in RED. Clearly this is a suggestion that Red Commies and pinkos were involved in manufacturing their propoganda trail "finders". Why all red on the Harriman maps?
Thats pretty darn funny:banana
hikerboy57
09-15-2011, 14:04
Best advice I've seen? IF you have to ask if maps are needed or not, you should probably bring them. :)Ill second this as best advice, unless you are married,( then you have a spouse to tell you where to go).
I'm slowly changing my opinion on carrying maps. On my 2009 thru I didn't, and got by very well, thank you very much.
But recently I've been carrying maps to play around with shooting bearings and compass stuff. It's been so much fun!
BTW, the Green Mountain Club has a fantastic 7 part basic map and compass video series.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p584IPVf0-w&feature=related.
Cheers!
Chaco Taco
09-15-2011, 17:58
Ill second this as best advice, unless you are married,( then you have a spouse to tell you where to go).
Dude you are on a roll today
hikerboy57
09-15-2011, 18:12
it takes some skill to be able to read a map correctly, and even most topo maps dont always show you the true picture. what may look like an easy bushwack out may be interrupted by a 50 ft cliff that wont show on your topo map with 100' intervals or underbrush so thick you'd need a machete(or lightssaber, invaluable on a thru hike) to hack through it.. Orienteering involves map and compass, and a constant awareness of your surroundings, occasionally looking back where you came (trails can look very different in opposite directions), and getting a"lay of the land"when you reach high points with good visibility.Its good practice to learn to use map and compass. although not completely necessary for hiking the AT, my maps have almost always gotten more use than my knife.so, would you take a knife on a thru hike?
Ill second this as best advice, unless you are married,( then you have a spouse to tell you where to go).
As a man planning on being married next year, I am starting to realize how true this statement is. :D
hikerboy57
09-15-2011, 21:10
As a man planning on being married next year, I am starting to realize how true this statement is. :Dmags have faith. I was married for 13 years and they were absolutely the best two years of my life!!
4eyedbuzzard
09-15-2011, 21:13
On most of my maps, the trails are outlined in RED. Clearly this is a suggestion that Red Commies and pinkos were involved in manufacturing their propoganda trail "finders". Why all red on the Harriman maps?I've also noted that in respect to the AT which is always shown in RED, that most BLUE trails always seem more poorly planned, underfunded, and lead one downhill. :-? :D
hikerboy57
09-16-2011, 07:27
Clearly these die hard liberal and commie map printers have an agenda far greater than a mere increased awareness of the interconnectedness of life and preservation of our wild places. remarkably, many of these same are now holding tea parties(shown on AT maps as water sources).
Love of the trail is their common bond, and thats enough.
WalkinHome
09-17-2011, 12:08
On most of my maps, the trails are outlined in RED. Clearly this is a suggestion that Red Commies and pinkos were involved in manufacturing their propoganda trail "finders". Why all red on the Harriman maps?
The Maine maps have an underlying yellow color with the red on top so I guess they would be cowardly commie pinkos?
I carried a guide book but no maps and had no problems. I think a guide book is a must...mileages, Town info, water sources, shelter info...all very important. There was a few times i wished i had a map but not that often.
hikerboy57
09-17-2011, 12:32
The Maine maps have an underlying yellow color with the red on top so I guess they would be cowardly commie pinkos?that would make no sense at all as cowardly commie pinkos usually bail out between New York and Massachussetts, hardly ever make it to maine.I suspect that the Maine maps are not adhering to the communist propaganda that all other trail clubs and map printers espouse.
Maine- the way life should be.
fireneck
09-19-2011, 05:32
Thanks for all the serious responses and the hilarious ones.
The red/yellow outlined trail in Maine is from the Maine Cartographers Union being huge supporters of Mao, Trotsky is their number two guy.
Chaco Taco
09-19-2011, 07:38
Thanks for all the serious responses and the hilarious ones.
The red/yellow outlined trail in Maine is from the Maine Cartographers Union being huge supporters of Mao, Trotsky is their number two guy.
typically a trend around here. Just look at what works for you, in the end, thats all that really matters