Tell Us About AT Culture/Etiquette...

[fireneck]

Trail names are pretty publicized, what are some other interesting things that the AT Culture does. If this spill over into a discussion about trail etiquette that is a find as well.

[Spokes]

This should be a fun thread.......

* Everyone is pretty much comfortable with their "hiker funk". Strong aromas are vogue.

* Blisters are a source of pride and pain. The "Show Your Blister" ceremony is a sacred communal ritual. The "Tick Check" ritual is also held in high esteem by group members.

* Cursing mice in shelters is acceptable bonding exercise.

* The group typically refrains from talk about politics, religion, or the if you prefer AquaMira over a SteriPen. Instead the most common question heard is "How long will cheese stay fresh on the trail?"

* It's okay to wince the first time you hear your hiking partners real name instead of his/her trailname

* Sharing your toilet paper on the trail is equivalent to the "Blood Brother" oath practiced in many cultures.

....... just to name a few.



In many ways thru hiking the AT is like traveling with the circus.

[tiptoe]

For the most part, AT culture is friendly, inclusive, courteous, respectful of others, optimistic, and helpful. If you are a hiker, you are welcome, whatever your age or experience level. If you hike your own hike and don't try to impose yourself or your views on others, you will do fine.

[Spokes]

Well said tiptoe.

[hikerboy57]

kinda like a bunch of traveling deadheads, without as many drugs.

[WingedMonkey]

There is neither culture or etiquette on the trail. But there is a lot of talk about it.

:sun

[XCskiNYC]

Distinct totems, such as minimal shelters elevated by hiking poles, indicate experience level and social status.

Alcohol stoves are prized, traded, and sometimes used as a form of currency.

[hikerboy57]

NOBOs take precedence over SOBOs in all matters.

[Elder]

NOBOs take precedence over SOBOs in all matters.
That depends on what the SOBO's are driving... "Pirate"

[fireneck]

This should be a fun thread.......
In many ways thru hiking the AT is like traveling with the circus.

I like this!

[daddytwosticks]

ALWAYS praise and worship thruhikers...they are ENTITLED to this as they are much more superior to the average section hiker........

[Odd Man Out]

For the most part, AT culture is friendly, inclusive, courteous, respectful of others, optimistic, and helpful. If you are a hiker, you are welcome, whatever your age or experience level. If you hike your own hike and don't try to impose yourself or your views on others, you will do fine.

It's like the boy scouts: A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. (OMG its been 40 years and I still remember!)

Tiptoe hit friendly, courteous, and helpful.
Let's assume respectful and inclusive fit with kind.
Trustworthy, loyal, cheerful, and thrifty? Probably
Brave? questionable.
Reverent? highly variable.
Clean and obedient? you decide.

[Old Hiker]

This should be a fun thread.......

* Cursing mice in shelters is acceptable bonding exercise.



I'm fairly sure I've never heard a mouse curse. I guess if I did, I would bond with the closet person, screaming, and saying, "Didja hear that???"

[hikerboy57]

section hikers are not hikers at all.shelters are reserved for ULers only.everyone loves wet dogs. weapons are both absolutely necessary and absolutely unnecessary.food should be both hung and slept with.
and finally, martinis should be stirred not shaken.

[johnnybgood]

HYOH is code for " Hike your own hike ".

[Grampie]

When a lot of folks start a thru they are not sure as to what kind of hiker practices are exceptable to most and what is not. As you gain experience you soon realize that everyone is on the same trip experiencing the same pleasures and hardships. You soon learn what most thru-hikers approve of and what they don't. Just a few: When folks are sleeping don't make a lot of noise., Share the shelter room. Because you arrived first you still have to make room for others. Smoke away from the shelter. Pick up and pack out your trash. Not all hikers like dogs. Don't ask those in the shelter, "do you mind if I bring my dog in."
Most hikers just want to eat, clean up and go to sleep. They don't want to talk gear, talk politics, talk religion or listen to you play your guatar. I guess in a few words; Be considerate to others."

[I'm gimpy]

When a lot of folks start a thru they are not sure as to what kind of hiker practices are exceptable to most and what is not. As you gain experience you soon realize that everyone is on the same trip experiencing the same pleasures and hardships. You soon learn what most thru-hikers approve of and what they don't. Just a few: When folks are sleeping don't make a lot of noise., Share the shelter room. Because you arrived first you still have to make room for others. Smoke away from the shelter. Pick up and pack out your trash. Not all hikers like dogs. Don't ask those in the shelter, "do you mind if I bring my dog in."
Most hikers just want to eat, clean up and go to sleep. They don't want to talk gear, talk politics, talk religion or listen to you play your guatar. I guess in a few words; Be considerate to others."

This also applies for the lowly section hiker too

[Big Dawg]

I guess if I did, I would bond with the closet person,

so what exactly is a "closet person"? :-?

[lush242000]

Trail names are pretty publicized, what are some other interesting things that the AT Culture does. If this spill over into a discussion about trail etiquette that is a find as well.

You get $5 every time someone says "tarptent" on the trail.

[tiptoe]

I'm a section hiker, and I've never (well, maybe just once) been made to feel "lowly". I hike the trail this way because I have a job, a garden, a pet, and a home to maintain, and also because a two- to three-week hike suits me better. I have all the respect in the world for thru-hikers, but I don't aspire to be one. Don't get too hung up on learning a set of rules, fireneck. If you hike and have even rudiimentary social skills, you'll figure out what to do and not do in short order.

[Blissful]

NOBOs take precedence over SOBOs in all matters.


Really
Dem's fightin' words.

:)

[Blissful]

This also applies for the lowly section hiker too

Why is a section hiker lowly?

They are the most disciplined, most courageous, able to withstand pain and with unwavering fortitude - hike one week, with blisters and pain galore, wait to next season and have to suffer it all over again while enjoying their hike immensely.

[hikerboy57]

Really
Dem's fightin' words.

:)Blissful, you're my #1 favorite SOBO.:sunI always enjoy your posts.
and you've taught me a few things.

[fireneck]

You get $5 every time someone says "tarptent" on the trail.

How much money if someone says, "light weight" on trail?

[hikerboy57]

How much money if someone says, "light weight" on trail? I dont know but its ten dollars for "big three".

[sbhikes]

I guess the AT culture has a lot of these things called "challenges." If you go on to hike the PCT, please note that many of these "challenges" seem childish and stupid and you will probably be criticized by some of the trail angels and possibly some of the other hikers as well for some of the dumber ones. In fact, if you do anything particularly stupid, irresponsible or illegal, it will fire up the chain of trail angels. They have email and they know how to use it!

[fireneck]

I dont know but its ten dollars for "big three".

big three?

[atmilkman]

big three?

Sleep system, shelter, backpack

[MuddyWaters]

Thru hikers are nothing but section hikers that hike their sections closer together.

When I hear of someone hiking the trail without ever getting off it, without going into town, without sleeping in hotel or hostel, or without eating at a restraunt, then I will believe that a "thru" hiker exists.

[jlo]

Thru hikers are not to be reverred. They just think they should be :)

And just respect other people with things like dogs, smoking and noise after dark. (Hiker bedtime is sunset) And remember that shetlers and picnic tables are communal, so share the space, but that's just common sense. Follow that and you're fine.

[WILLIAM HAYES]

dont spread your crap all over the shelter make room for others -dont smoke in shelters- leave your guitar at home -dont bore others with a know it all attitude about gear dont discuss politics religion or sports be quiet when others are trying to sleep
hillbilly

[paradoxb3]

About dogs:

Someone hit the nail on the head with dont ask others if they mind if you bring your dog in. Maybe its obvious but maybe it does need to be said why. Its because most people in trying to be courteous will just say "sure, cmon in!" while behind their teeth are cursing you and your dog with every breath.

I think most hikers, myself included, actually dont mind dogs once they realize that the dog is trail-trained. That means training them to stay out of stuff, not drink from water sources until commanded where to drink, not barking or chasing wildlife/hikers(redundant?), going off trail to do their business, etc... On my thru I experienced untrained dogs tracking water and mud on my sleeping bag, digging in my pack when i wasnt looking, and just running wild barking at anyone and everything because the owners didnt care or thought it was funny.

A problem dog on the trail you're aware of every second. A well trained dog you'll forget is even there.

[Pony]

And just respect other people with things like dogs, smoking and noise after dark. (Hiker bedtime is sunset) And remember that shetlers and picnic tables are communal, so share the space, but that's just common sense. Follow that and you're fine.

So what time do hikers wake up? Just because someone is in their sleeping bag at 8:30 doesn't mean everyone else has to be. Always ticks me off when people think it's ok to make all sorts of noise at 5 am, yet were intolerant of those that aren't asleep at sunset. Just be respectful, there is no such thing as hiker's midnight.

[Hoofit]

Don't bring your puppies,(unless they're firm and beautiful)
Their paws are too soft for a long hike and you'll only injure them
And don't crap on the trail and disguise it as 'Dog ****'
The well travelled thru-hiker knows the difference....
And don't leave your trash in the firepits unless it's burnable....
However, leaving a pile of wet kindle under a shelter to dry out is always a nice welcome for the next night's weary traveller
Man, I love the trail...

[Hooch]

1) Don't take advantage of trail providers.2) Don't expect to get fed for free at every road crossing.3) Pay your own way.4) Act like you've got some sense.

[Trailbender]

I never had an issue with section hikers. I never felt like I was better than them, either. I met quite a few that I still keep in contact with. Getting on the AT, for any length of time, is an amazing journey. It is cool that they can do that. I live far enough away where gas prices are prohibitive to me visiting the AT regularly.

As far as etiquette goes, a lot of the societal "norms" can be ignored on the trail. People get on there to generally get away from that high strung crap, and relax.

[Sensei]

When it is raining, there is always room for one more in the shelter.

Nothing irked me more on my thru than seeing trash on the trail and trash at shelters and campsites. If you are too lazy to pack out what you pack in, you have no business being on the trail. Leaving your trash in a firepit and expecting someone else to take care of it for you should be punishable by death. :)

Sharing food, either on the trail or in town, is one of the greatest gifts a person can give. The person who packs out a box of cookies to share with everyone at the shelter is a king of the earth, a god among men.

As for the thru-hiker/section hiker relationship, I can honestly say that never once did I wish I was section hiker, but at the same time I was envious of every section hiker I met. Both are great ways to hike the trail, but for different reasons.

[I'm gimpy]

Why is a section hiker lowly?

They are the most disciplined, most courageous, able to withstand pain and with unwavering fortitude - hike one week, with blisters and pain galore, wait to next season and have to suffer it all over again while enjoying their hike immensely.

I was just playing off of a earlier post. I am a section hiker and we are far from "lowly". But I will say this much, sectioners and thru's all stink the same. I think thats one of our common bonds!

[Blissful]

Blissful, you're my #1 favorite SOBO.:sunI always enjoy your posts.
and you've taught me a few things.

Just saw this. I've been away. Thanks :)

[Blissful]

I was just playing off of a earlier post. I am a section hiker and we are far from "lowly". But I will say this much, sectioners and thru's all stink the same. I think thats one of our common bonds!

There you go Got that right. If we don't all stink together we most assuredly will all stink separately. (!)

[sean.sanchez]

What are the stupid "challenges" that were mentioned? I'm gonna be thru hiking with my dog and I feel really alienated and offended when people say stuff like, "don't even ask if its ok to bring a dog into a shelter." Who's the hardass that thinks its not rude just saying that? I'm supposed to feel bad because people are lying about how they feel? Why don't they just be honest and say, no...probablyy because when you hear yourself say that it sounds really messed up....because it is. "Don't even ask." Is a lot more messed up than "Is it ok" Like its just understood I'm not allowed in a shelter because of my dog. Really makes you think about how people see themselves. I mean, I get it, there are bad dogs that mess with peoples stuff..whatever. From what I've read on the forum there's a lot more offensive people in shelters than offensive dogs. Also if I'm being alienated like that, not allowed(such a lame term) in shelters, why the hell am I supposed to respect peoples sleep times? I don't know any of them, I'm not apart of the shelter group, and nobody cares about me, I'm supposed to stop talking at 8 in the wildernes bs, just like "don't talk about politics, sports or religion...who the f are you to tell people what they can talk about, the conversation regulator, plz. All of this sounds like people trying to bully other people around to me.

[MannDude]

What are the stupid "challenges" that were mentioned? I'm gonna be thru hiking with my dog and I feel really alienated and offended when people say stuff like, "don't even ask if its ok to bring a dog into a shelter." Who's the hardass that thinks its not rude just saying that? I'm supposed to feel bad because people are lying about how they feel? Why don't they just be honest and say, no...probablyy because when you hear yourself say that it sounds really messed up....because it is. "Don't even ask." Is a lot more messed up than "Is it ok" Like its just understood I'm not allowed in a shelter because of my dog. Really makes you think about how people see themselves. I mean, I get it, there are bad dogs that mess with peoples stuff..whatever. From what I've read on the forum there's a lot more offensive people in shelters than offensive dogs. Also if I'm being alienated like that, not allowed(such a lame term) in shelters, why the hell am I supposed to respect peoples sleep times? I don't know any of them, I'm not apart of the shelter group, and nobody cares about me, I'm supposed to stop talking at 8 in the wildernes bs, just like "don't talk about politics, sports or religion...who the f are you to tell people what they can talk about, the conversation regulator, plz. All of this sounds like people trying to bully other people around to me.

Not everyone likes dogs, some people are allergic, and some are downright afraid of them. I love dogs, but I wouldn't want a wet strange dog to come trampling on my stuff and shaking itself dry next to me. It seems people are mostly concerned with how well trained the animal is, but general consensus (it seems) is to bring a tent if you're bringing a dog :)

Politics, religion, stuff like that I won't even talk about in real life. I plan on doing a thru-hike in 2013 and I can't foresee any situation where knowing someone's voting history or religious thoughts would be beneficial. It's just horrible small talk, everybody believes what they believe and there is not much that can be done to change someone's mind. I'd hate if I had to listen to somebody ramble about a politician or how great there life was after they converted to . Just seems like pointless conversation to me.

I would imagine that if you're in a shelter and most people are trying to sleep, then well, be quiet. That seems like pretty understanable logic. Why would you [I]want to be a nuisance while others are trying to rest? If it's 8PM and everyone is having a jolly good time, have a good time!

I think what everyone is trying to get across is: Don't draw negative attention towards yourself by not being courteous or aware of your social surroundings.

[lemon b]

HYOH, The main thing for me is sleep. Only time I hit shelters is when I'm super tired, in sporty weather and I konk right out. Even being a light sleeper not much is going to wake me. When someone is sleeping let em be. Also I share when necessary, but never ask for anything.

[paistes5]

What are the stupid "challenges" that were mentioned? I'm gonna be thru hiking with my dog and I feel really alienated and offended when people say stuff like, "don't even ask if its ok to bring a dog into a shelter." Who's the hardass that thinks its not rude just saying that? I'm supposed to feel bad because people are lying about how they feel? Why don't they just be honest and say, no...probablyy because when you hear yourself say that it sounds really messed up....because it is. "Don't even ask." Is a lot more messed up than "Is it ok" Like its just understood I'm not allowed in a shelter because of my dog. Really makes you think about how people see themselves. I mean, I get it, there are bad dogs that mess with peoples stuff..whatever. From what I've read on the forum there's a lot more offensive people in shelters than offensive dogs. Also if I'm being alienated like that, not allowed(such a lame term) in shelters, why the hell am I supposed to respect peoples sleep times? I don't know any of them, I'm not apart of the shelter group, and nobody cares about me, I'm supposed to stop talking at 8 in the wildernes bs, just like "don't talk about politics, sports or religion...who the f are you to tell people what they can talk about, the conversation regulator, plz. All of this sounds like people trying to bully other people around to me.

You and your dog would be welcome in a shelter I were in. If he shakes dry on me or gets in my stuff, I might have an issue but that's it. Can't recall seeing a sign at a shelter that says no dogs allowed.

[Nutbrown]

As a section hiker, I always leave the trail magic for the thru's. I'll be home in a week, I can get a soda/candy bar then. Keep your nasty boots and socks off the picnic table.

[IrishBASTARD]

Not everyone likes dogs, some people are allergic, and some are downright afraid of them. I love dogs, but I wouldn't want a wet strange dog to come trampling on my stuff and shaking itself dry next to me. It seems people are mostly concerned with how well trained the animal is, but general consensus (it seems) is to bring a tent if you're bringing a dog Politics, religion, stuff like that I won't even talk about in real life. I plan on doing a thru-hike in 2013 and I can't foresee any situation where knowing someone's voting history or religious thoughts would be beneficial. It's just horrible small talk, everybody believes what they believe and there is not much that can be done to change someone's mind. I'd hate if I had to listen to somebody ramble about a politician or how great there life was after they converted to . Just seems like pointless conversation to me.

I would imagine that if you're in a shelter and most people are trying to sleep, then well, be quiet. That seems like pretty understanable logic. Why would you [I]want to be a nuisance while others are trying to rest? If it's 8PM and everyone is having a jolly good time, have a good time!

I think what everyone is trying to get across is: Don't draw negative attention towards yourself by not being courteous or aware of your social surroundings.



Dude oddly were all animals whether you accept that or not. Although I agree on the trained dog aspect...I dont think most people care Sean seems to...by asking before hand about such concerns. Religion and Politics are the Bedrock of American Life...anyone can be free to preach or condemn its as American as Apple pie. If its horrible small talk why does it exist...where were the greatest Nation on Earth...with of course some faults of our own. I have seen many pics of religious items aka markings and or papers prayers...near or on hiker boxes. Though I dont agree with such items...thankfully they can do what they like. I have heard all religions and al Political sides...its your choice to walk away or ask to change subjects. Shelter or not its not your right to tell someone be quiet...thats why we have Soldiers around the World so people can do as they please. Yes its not a perfect system unless its in a book...like many other things in life. I dont think he is trying to be a "nuisance" I think he is upset that people disregard dogs as just that dogs...some type of animal to be loathed. I have been bitten several times was it the dogs fault no...it was its owners fault. So I say give SEAN the benefit of the doubt on here and beyond...what can it hurt besides a dog is better at hearing and can warn of danger. I would gladly sleep in the same hut as Sean and his dog...if anything it will make me a sound sleeper. Besides I am more likely to trample on my own things than any dog is...I am forgetful of some things in life but thats nature.

[Grampie]

What are the stupid "challenges" that were mentioned? I'm gonna be thru hiking with my dog and I feel really alienated and offended when people say stuff like, "don't even ask if its ok to bring a dog into a shelter." Who's the hardass that thinks its not rude just saying that? I'm supposed to feel bad because people are lying about how they feel? Why don't they just be honest and say, no...probablyy because when you hear yourself say that it sounds really messed up....because it is. "Don't even ask." Is a lot more messed up than "Is it ok" Like its just understood I'm not allowed in a shelter because of my dog. Really makes you think about how people see themselves. I mean, I get it, there are bad dogs that mess with peoples stuff..whatever. From what I've read on the forum there's a lot more offensive people in shelters than offensive dogs. Also if I'm being alienated like that, not allowed(such a lame term) in shelters, why the hell am I supposed to respect peoples sleep times? I don't know any of them, I'm not apart of the shelter group, and nobody cares about me, I'm supposed to stop talking at 8 in the wildernes bs, just like "don't talk about politics, sports or religion...who the f are you to tell people what they can talk about, the conversation regulator, plz. All of this sounds like people trying to bully other people around to me.

The advise given by most experienced thru-hikers and folks who have spent a lot of time on the trail is what would help you enjoy your hike more. If you don't want to follow their advise, go ahead and do your own thing. You will not make a lot of friends.

[MuddyWaters]

If you arent considerate of others, you can expect the same in return. You will reap what you sow.

You will keep running into the same people at shelters.

[Wizard 2009]

The few challenges that come to mind are:
"Half- Gallon Challenge"- Eat a half-gallon of ice cream at Pine Grove Furnace
"4-state challenge"- Start in Virginia and hike thru West Virginia and Maryland and end in Pennsylvania all in 24 hours
"Half Century Challenge" hike 50 miles in one day

Anyone know of any more?

[SpecialK]

Trail magic is usually there when needed the most.

[Chaco Taco]

I like some of the posts here. When it comes to the dog issue, I hiked around many dogs and they became part of our group. The owners always slept with their dogs in tents. If the weather was really awful, no one ever had a problem if they climbed in the shelter. Most of the time, the dogs were so tired anyway, they just curled up and went right to sleep. There were a few nights when a bear would walk into camp and it was good to have that dog around.

I cant stand shelters but on occasion was left to sleep in some and had some really interesting experiences. First of all, bedtime is not at sunset. Its when I want to go to bed. If i want to sit up and hang out next to a fire, Im going to do so. I will be respectful of you if you are respectful of me. For the most part, we tent away from shelters. Sometimes we will go and socialize. I have witnessed some really interesting events at shelters, even before it was dark. Even had a guy threaten me and some friends. Be respectful of one another. There arent rules on the trail like so many people seem to want to impose.

Smoking, of any kind, should be done away from shelters. I am a former smoker.
Dont leave your trash in the firepit for trail crews and caretakers to clean up. This urks me to no end. Had a guy "rebelling" against the AMC throw his trash in a fire pit and I hiked it out and stuffed it in his pack when i passed his pack on the junction of a spur trail.
Be nice to one another, like I said, there are no 'rules' when it comes to some of the stuff listed in this thread. Some people just like to think there are rules so they can impose their way on other people, especially at shelters. If you dont like it, go set up your tent.

If someone is hiking behind you that is obviously faster than you, just let them pass, you have nothing to prove.

Dont exspect Trail Magic, its so unbecoming. Enjoy it and save some for the next guy. So many times have seen people clean out coolers. And when you get it, say Thank you. Its not that hard.

If you are thruhiking, you arent entitled to a damn thing. You have to pay just like everyone else. People give special rates because they want to see you succeed. Esp people that take you into their homes. Be respectful and do the dishes and leave the place better off than when you got there.

If I do something you dont like, there is no need to yell at me. If you are at that point, maybe its time to go home.
Have fun all and be nice to each other. remember why you are out there

[hikerboy57]

why is the golden rule such a difficult concept?if you were the first to arrive at a shelter or campsite, how would you want the incoming hikers to act? okay, now just reverse the process, and act like them.Common courtesy is the only "rule".HYOH , but let others hike theirs.and just because someone else is acting like an a**hole, doesnt mean you get to join the club. be the example, do the right thing. what goes around comes around.

[Blissful]

I like some of the posts here. When it comes to the dog issue, I hiked around many dogs and they became part of our group. The owners always slept with their dogs in tents. If the weather was really awful, no one ever had a problem if they climbed in the shelter. Most of the time, the dogs were so tired anyway, they just curled up and went right to sleep. There were a few nights when a bear would walk into camp and it was good to have that dog around.

I cant stand shelters but on occasion was left to sleep in some and had some really interesting experiences. First of all, bedtime is not at sunset. Its when I want to go to bed. If i want to sit up and hang out next to a fire, Im going to do so. I will be respectful of you if you are respectful of me. For the most part, we tent away from shelters. Sometimes we will go and socialize. I have witnessed some really interesting events at shelters, even before it was dark. Even had a guy threaten me and some friends. Be respectful of one another. There arent rules on the trail like so many people seem to want to impose.

Smoking, of any kind, should be done away from shelters. I am a former smoker.
Dont leave your trash in the firepit for trail crews and caretakers to clean up. This urks me to no end. Had a guy "rebelling" against the AMC throw his trash in a fire pit and I hiked it out and stuffed it in his pack when i passed his pack on the junction of a spur trail.
Be nice to one another, like I said, there are no 'rules' when it comes to some of the stuff listed in this thread. Some people just like to think there are rules so they can impose their way on other people, especially at shelters. If you dont like it, go set up your tent.

If someone is hiking behind you that is obviously faster than you, just let them pass, you have nothing to prove.

Dont exspect Trail Magic, its so unbecoming. Enjoy it and save some for the next guy. So many times have seen people clean out coolers. And when you get it, say Thank you. Its not that hard.

If you are thruhiking, you arent entitled to a damn thing. You have to pay just like everyone else. People give special rates because they want to see you succeed. Esp people that take you into their homes. Be respectful and do the dishes and leave the place better off than when you got there.

If I do something you dont like, there is no need to yell at me. If you are at that point, maybe its time to go home.
Have fun all and be nice to each other. remember why you are out there


Really good stuff here. I must say I talked to an outfitter the other day who is tired of the thru hiker prima donna mentality. A few have come into the store after hiking 1500 miles on their boots, sent their boots back and demanded the manufacturers send them new ones. Or others who wore holes in their socks but said to the outfitter, Well it says lifetime guarantee. SO I want some new ones. Its this kind of mentality that gives thru hikers a bad name.

[Chaco Taco]

Really good stuff here. I must say I talked to an outfitter the other day who is tired of the thru hiker prima donna mentality. A few have come into the store after hiking 1500 miles on their boots, sent their boots back and demanded the manufacturers send them new ones. Or others who wore holes in their socks but said to the outfitter, Well it says lifetime guarantee. SO I want some new ones. Its this kind of mentality that gives thru hikers a bad name.

I talked to a hostel owner today that takes people in for free and shuttles them around. She has had so many thruhikers call and leave nasty messages on her vm when she decides to step away from it all for a couple of days.

[stranger]

I think one of the most unfortunate things is that many, not all, AT thru-hikers are:
a) Inexperienced when they arrive at Springer Mountain
b) Usually under 25, and male
c) Lack life skills

And of course, their behavior reflects these facts. But if you avoid the BS, the shelters in the south, most hostels, and don't mind camping, you can have an amazing experience. I've always found it amazing how few people you actually see if you spend you time walking all day and don't travel down those blue-blaze shelter trails, most of the people you end up running into are sitting in shelters, not actually hiking.

Also, a very easy way of dealing with some of this is by having some money in the bank, most of the younger, more annoying people are broke - I find it amusing how many people think $5-7K is alot of money for a 5 month hike...it's peanuts if you think about it.

[stranger]

$$$ allows you to dictate more during a hike, if you are broke you are going to have to stay at the hostel, etc...

[Chaco Taco]

$$$ allows you to dictate more during a hike, if you are broke you are going to have to stay at the hostel, etc...

if you are broke? Hostels cost money

[Trailbender]

Also, a very easy way of dealing with some of this is by having some money in the bank, most of the younger, more annoying people are broke - I find it amusing how many people think $5-7K is alot of money for a 5 month hike...it's peanuts if you think about it.

That is a lot of money, actually. I did my 2010 thru on $2,300 including the bangor greyhound to nashville. I did not feel "cramped" spending this, and I did not constantly eat ramens either. Of course, I was 30 and had been frugal my whole life.

[stonedflea]

Don't bring your puppies,(unless they're firm and beautiful)
Their paws are too soft for a long hike and you'll only injure them

that's not true. my dog made it from georgia to jersey and i had nary a problem with her pads. treat your dog right and it'll be fine. i used bag balm on swayze's pads to keep them soft and supple, and she didn't need boots on the pa rocks. their feet toughen up, just like ours do. they're dogs. they adapt. wolves and coyotes don't tiptoe around rough terrain.


What are the stupid "challenges" that were mentioned? I'm gonna be thru hiking with my dog and I feel really alienated and offended when people say stuff like, "don't even ask if its ok to bring a dog into a shelter." Who's the hardass that thinks its not rude just saying that? I'm supposed to feel bad because people are lying about how they feel? Why don't they just be honest and say, no...probablyy because when you hear yourself say that it sounds really messed up....because it is. "Don't even ask." Is a lot more messed up than "Is it ok" Like its just understood I'm not allowed in a shelter because of my dog. Really makes you think about how people see themselves. I mean, I get it, there are bad dogs that mess with peoples stuff..whatever. From what I've read on the forum there's a lot more offensive people in shelters than offensive dogs. Also if I'm being alienated like that, not allowed(such a lame term) in shelters, why the hell am I supposed to respect peoples sleep times? I don't know any of them, I'm not apart of the shelter group, and nobody cares about me, I'm supposed to stop talking at 8 in the wildernes bs, just like "don't talk about politics, sports or religion...who the f are you to tell people what they can talk about, the conversation regulator, plz. All of this sounds like people trying to bully other people around to me.

i used whiteblaze as a research tool for my hike, and when i hit the trail with my dog, i was pretty apprehensive about how people would feel about swayze because of the attitudes i'd seen on these forums. every person who is anti-dog on here has a loud "voice," it seems. i thought once i got on the trail, every other person would hate my dog and i would have a tough time with it. i'm not going to say "don't listen to the people on whiteblaze," but the dog-hating mentality is scarce on the trail AS LONG AS YOUR DOG IS GOOD and YOU are respectful of others' property.

dogs have no sense of decency. if a dog is wet, he wants to be dry. if it just so happens that he wants to shake himself next to others' property, that's no good. your dog is your responsibility, so you need to be able to foresee these sorts of problems. swayze knows the "bed" command, so on rainy days, i would wash all the mud off of her and then dry each paw individually before she was even allowed in the shelter. then she went straight to her "bed" and remained there the entire time.

in all of our 1,700 miles, we ran into two complete ******** in relation to swayze. i think all of these people who say "don't even ask about your dog in the shelter" are being ridiculous. if you're that opposed to dogs, then grow a backbone and say so. if you're trying to be polite, then that's your fault for being a doormat. speak your mind. no one is a mindreader, so we're not going to know if you're secretly seething in your sleeping bag because our pooch is in the shelter.


Not everyone likes dogs, some people are allergic, and some are downright afraid of them. I love dogs, but I wouldn't want a wet strange dog to come trampling on my stuff and shaking itself dry next to me. It seems people are mostly concerned with how well trained the animal is, but general consensus (it seems) is to bring a tent if you're bringing a dog :)

I think what everyone is trying to get across is: Don't draw negative attention towards yourself by not being courteous or aware of your social surroundings.

i preferred to tent with my dog because i actually ran into a few individuals who seemed to think, "oh yay! group dog!" and they would actually give swayze commands that counter-acted the commands she was supposed to be obeying that i'd given her (ie they'd tell her to come to them when i had told her to stay put). people hand-feeding her actually got to be a problem with swayze as well... she came to expect handouts. she was never allowed to beg, but it got to be harder as we went along to keep her at bay because everyone wanted to feed the dog. staying in your tent prevents these kind of social issues as well.


Also, a very easy way of dealing with some of this is by having some money in the bank, most of the younger, more annoying people are broke - I find it amusing how many people think $5-7K is alot of money for a 5 month hike...it's peanuts if you think about it.

how in the world do you think 5-7k is peanuts for a thru-hike?! i did 1,700 miles with a dog this year and spent roughly $3,500 and the dog was the most expensive part of my hike! $250 for boarding for 4 days through the smokeys and her dog food was always the most expensive item on my resupply receipt. an thru-hike could easily be done on $3,500 (or even less) as a comfortable budget (i stayed in many hotels, hostels, etc.).

------

one other etiquette rule i would add is to not touch other peoples' gear, no matter how interested you are in it, unless you ask permission first. hikers are like turtles and for you to touch my pack or my pack cover is almost like breaking and entering my home.

also, don't yogi from other hikers, especially thru-hikers. day hikers and section hikers are usually very generous with food handouts, but don't beg from anybody, really. there's a difference between telling a hiking buddy that you're about to run out of food and then idling up next to someone at a shelter and lamenting about how you are down to three pieces of bread and half a jar of peanut butter until you can get to the town thirty miles up.

overall, common sense, decency, and courtesy will get you very far. :)

[Bronk]

Sean, they are right when they say "don't even ask to bring a dog into a shelter." You don't have to ask, just do it. There is no rule that dogs aren't allowed in shelters. Dogs have just as much right to use shelters as people do. If you see a dog in a shelter and that bothers you, then set up your tent or go somewhere else. Lets be real here, you're sleeping on a dirty wooden floor where disease carrying rodents roam free...adding a dog isn't going to make it dirtier. If you don't like dogs, don't stay in shelters with them. The dog is probably cleaner and less smelly than you are. :-?

The people who wake up at 430am and rattle their pot to cook breakfast are just as annoying to people who like to sleep in as the people who like to stay up late are to those who go to sleep early. Neither one is right or wrong...it is what it is.

If you manufacture socks and sell them with a lifetime guarantee, then well, you're an idiot. Socks wear out. A lifetime guarantee is for durable goods that will last a lifetime, like a Craftsman wrench, not a pair of socks. To most people "lifetime guarantee" means if it breaks before you die the manufacturer will give you a new one, and most people who buy this stuff base their decision at least in part on the guarantee. Don't advertise a lifetime guarantee unless you plan to honor it, anything less is fraud. The reason manufactuers offer such guarantees on inferior products is that they know the vast majority of people will never call them on it and they are gaining free profit from their "guarantee." Its a marketing technique. Its the same reason that Sears, Best Buy and Walmart try to sell you an extended warranty everytime you buy an appliance or electronics...they know that most people will not bother to remember to use the warranty or won't bother going through the hassle...the money they make from those extended warranties is virtually free money. Those who utilize the guarantee are no more ripping off the manufactuer than the manufacturer is ripping off people who buy their inferior products.

Having said that, if no such guarantee is made and you walk 1500 miles in a pair of boots, they are not defective, you wore them out and should pony up the dough for a new pair.

[Todd Tarbox]

are there any? Just want to know what to stay away from.

[Pedaling Fool]

Sean, they are right when they say "don't even ask to bring a dog into a shelter." You don't have to ask, just do it. There is no rule that dogs aren't allowed in shelters. Dogs have just as much right to use shelters as people do. If you see a dog in a shelter and that bothers you, then set up your tent or go somewhere else. Lets be real here, you're sleeping on a dirty wooden floor where disease carrying rodents roam free...adding a dog isn't going to make it dirtier. If you don't like dogs, don't stay in shelters with them. The dog is probably cleaner and less smelly than you are. :-?

The people who wake up at 430am and rattle their pot to cook breakfast are just as annoying to people who like to sleep in as the people who like to stay up late are to those who go to sleep early. Neither one is right or wrong...it is what it is.


This rule thing is hard to discuss WRT shelters, because there's no real enforcement apparatus; I guess that's why we call it shelter/trail ethics. I'm no dog-hater, but if dog owners want to extend an olive branch you wouldn't just let your dog enter the shelter. Especially if your dog is like so many I've seen. I can't count how many times I've seen a wet, muddy, stinky dog run up to other people wagging its tail getting people dirty and just plain making people miserable.


It is an written ethic to at least ask people to allow your dog into a shelter: http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/hiking-with-dogs

TRAIL ETHICS FOR DOGS AND THEIR OWNERS

People hiking with dogs should be aware of the impact of their animals on the Trail environment and their effect on the Trail experience of others. Be conscientious about cleaning up after your dog and keeping them away from water sources—dogs, like people, can carry and spread giardia and other diseases.

Always keep your dog on a leash.
Do not allow your pet to chase wildlife.
Do not allow your dog to stand in springs or other sources of drinking water.
Be mindful of the rights of other hikers not to be bothered by even a friendly dog.
Bury your pet's waste as you would your own.
Take special measures at shelters. Keep your dog leashed in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter. Be prepared to "tent out" when a shelter is crowded, and on rainy days.





Just because there are some people that break ethics give one a free ticket to do the same; doesn't take much foresight to see what that'll lead to.

[Sarcasm the elf]

One point of etiquette that is not mentioned often enough is that beginning backpackers should do a little research beforehand into how to do their business in the woods when no privy is available. They'll be doing themselves a favor figuring this out in advance, since it's not something that is fun to have to figure out during an "emergency," and the (fortunately rare) piles of human waste with a dollop of TP on top of them left by ignorant hikers by the trailside or a few feet from a shelter is one of the most discourteous things encountered.

Generally, the things below are the minimum guidelines I'd suggest:

- Find a spot at least 200 feet from trails, shelters, or any water source.
- Dig a hole about 6" deep, the goal is to bury it in the top layer of dirt that contains microbes that will quickly break the waste down.
- Try to do your business in the forest floor, exposed places such as above tree line are much more fragile ecosystems.
- To dispose of TP, at the very least, bury it 6" down along with your waste. (Someone will likely respond that you should pack it out instead, but I find that's sometimes a hard sell, so at the least bury it)

[Sir-Packs-Alot]

Hmmm ... as usual lots of good info, lots of tom-foolery and a few things learned from the previous posts on trail behavior, views, etiquette and protocol ! Bottom line for me is that I wish "real life" were like life on the trail is. Most folks ("lowly" section hikers or otherwise) would and have literally given me (a stranger) "the shirt off their back" on the trail. The majority of hikers on the trail are obviously day hikers or overnighters - so the highest incidence of "misbehaviour" from the ignorant, unitiated or just plain jerks - would be from that largest group ... but many longer distance hikers start their journeys that way before they evolve (hopefully). Just be courteous and open minded, hike to truly "see what you see" (as Benton Mackaye wished), and "hike your own hike" ... but to a degree. Don't impose your expertise and bragging rights on other hikers (everyone is an expert) BUT PLEASE MENTION (as politely as possible) any incidents of folks being a little discourteous or if they are adversely affecting the trail (such as not knowing "Leave No Trace" practices). I've run into many hikers that just didn't know better ... sometimes for months !

[Pony]

I never experienced much of the whole section vs thru thing. For the most part I think thru hikers hang in their own groups because they already know the other hikers, I don't think they usually do this because they think they are better than section hikers, though I suppose this could be the case at times. I've found that many times I liked the company of section hikers better than that of thrus. For the most part section hikers seem to be having more fun and are more positive than thrus, especially later in the hike. Most of them are on vacation and not treating it like a job. Also, more often than not section hikers are carrying more food than they can eat, and usually good food. More often than not, section hikers will offer you some of their food, and if they have whisky will almost always offer you a sip. That aside, it is nice to see fresh faces around camp, share some stories and make new friends even if it's only for a couple of days.

[lush242000]

I have to chime in on the "dont' smoke in shelters". If I was a smoker and I arrived at the shelter first, why should I not smoke? If I was sitting there smoking and somone came up and asked me to quit, I would finish my cigarette. What entitles people to think that shelters are smoke free? I have seen plenty of jerks smoking weed and having a good time, but then someone else lights up a cigarette and all hell breaks loose. Who really cares. Shelters are public space. Anyway...gas has been poured....let the flames begin.

[Chaco Taco]

I have to chime in on the "dont' smoke in shelters". If I was a smoker and I arrived at the shelter first, why should I not smoke? If I was sitting there smoking and somone came up and asked me to quit, I would finish my cigarette. What entitles people to think that shelters are smoke free? I have seen plenty of jerks smoking weed and having a good time, but then someone else lights up a cigarette and all hell breaks loose. Who really cares. Shelters are public space. Anyway...gas has been poured....let the flames begin.
Nah you do make a valid point. I was a smoker when I hiked and I never smoked inside the shelters if I ever stayed at one. I typically walked away to get some quiet. But yea, you bring up a good point between the weed and cig issue and it may get interesting to see the comments. Probably someone will say something irrational and lead to a shut down.

[Wuff]

Nah you do make a valid point. I was a smoker when I hiked and I never smoked inside the shelters if I ever stayed at one. I typically walked away to get some quiet. But yea, you bring up a good point between the weed and cig issue and it may get interesting to see the comments. Probably someone will say something irrational and lead to a shut down.

There's definitely a double standard. But IMO, the smoke/scent of cigarettes lingers longer and is stronger than weed. But thats a personal opinion. Frankly, if you have to even discuss it, shouldn't you just walk away from the shelter and enjoy your cigarette and not get in anyone's way?