View Full Version : Total Miss-information both in the food stores and on the internet about food and fat
Wise Old Owl
09-22-2011, 23:30
I walked into Acme yesterday and discovered a disparity of miss-information and pricing about chicken breast meat. I found the manager and discussed with her why two versions of quality Acme Chicken Meat was three dollars apart and one was labeled "Signature" because it was lower in fat... (not enough to justify) it was the same damn chicken trimmed a little better as she informed me.
Folks I cannot begin to describe how if you have a diet of no fat - you would die! its called Rabbit Fever by the folks that endured the gold rush. Eat a diet of rabbit and other whole foods and you would not last a year. Fat is important. Eating Fat in moderation will not make you fat. Even if you could buy top quality red meat (you won't find that at ACME) its MARBLED! Prime is better than top round because of it higher fat content. The most exspensive meat on the market Kobe is fine grain marbled and the American is WAGYU! Try and buy that at your local store... it tastes better because of the fat content. This is why cuts taste better at the restaurants vs what you home bbq.
The fat doesn't make you fat - its your metabolism, Alcohol screws up the behavior of metabolism. 40+ years ago people welcomed the return of hard liquor because it low in empty calories but sends the metabolism down..suppressing it. Want Proof? head over to ANY old folks home and look into the recycle bin... its full of hard liquor bottles. Why do they call it the golden years?
Beer - its very hard to transport before refrigerated cars. Hense the west was skinny and addicted to fatty beef & hard liquor. They ate chicken too, but worked like dogs all day consuming 1000's of calories a day.
Beer came and there is no denying the beer belly...High in calories and suppression of the metabolism - fat goes right to the belly, because you don't have to eat and still gain weight.
People are so screwed up with miss-information that they stand in front of nutritionists and say I don't eat red meat, I eat turkey, chicken and other lean meats and look for confirmation for doing a good thing... WRONG.
Check this out....
by Monica Reinagel, M.S.,L.D./N.
Turkey and Chicken Myths
Last weekend, I was relaxing with the Sunday paper and came across a story on how to take your favorite comfort foods and make them lighter. For the article, a famous TV chef had adapted some recipes to make them healthier. Her first recipe makeover was for sloppy joes, and to “lighten them up,” she replaced ground beef with ground turkey. That’s it.
How does making sloppy joes with ground turkey make them healthier? I guess that’s what happens when you ask chefs for nutrition advice.
Hidden Nutritional Bombs
I know tons of people who suffer from this same misconception. They proudly tell me that they never eat red meat. They substitute ground turkey or chicken in anything that calls for ground beef. They also eat turkey bacon, turkey sausage, turkey bologna, and turkey hot dogs instead of the regular kind. Having told me all this, they lower their eyes modestly and wait for me to commend them for their nutritional virtue. Never mind all the sodium (http://nutritiondiva.quickanddirtytips.com/sodium-high.aspx), nitrates (http://nutritiondiva.quickanddirtytips.com/nitrates-and-nitrites.aspx), preservatives, and saturated fat in that turkey bacon: at least it’s not pork. You know what? That’s just a bunch of turkey boloney. Cold cuts, bacon, and sausages made from turkey or chicken may contain just as much of that stuff as their traditional counterparts. In fact, regardless of what kind of meat went into them, the low-fat versions of these foods are often even higher in sodium than the regular-fat varieties.
It’s True: Chicken Breasts Are Low in Fat
Where did everybody get the idea that turkey and chicken are automatically healthier than beef or pork, anyway? I’m not sure, but I have a theory. Some time ago, the powers that be decided that it would be good for people to reduce the amount of fat they eat, especially animal fat. And someone—perhaps someone in the chicken farming industry?—pointed out that a boneless, skinless chicken breast is very low in fat. ]And it is. If you replace a broiled strip steak with the same amount of boneless, skinless chicken breast, you cut the fat by about 75%. So far, so good. But somehow people have latched on to the idea that chicken and turkey are inherently healthier than beef or pork. They’re not.
She is right on many counts - I like her article...one thing that was missed outside of the excerpt - she quoted white breast meat was lower in fat than a leg, skin off she would be wrong... dark meat is dark because it's lower in fat. The legs do all the work and the fat goes to the breast & belly of the bird.
So how does this relate to the trail? Sodium and Nitrates are bad for you, Old Nagalene bottles and Gatorade are bad too...
Proteins and fats are good for the trail. Fat is high quick energy just under a sugar rush! High salt contents are to be avoided, even on a hot day... Salt Sense and low sodium foods are better. We have read detailed reports from thru hikers that junk food is easier to get a quick burn and not worry about the weight... (hmmm sounds like Katz wrote that) Dried foods, Home made Pemmican and Jerkys - dried fruits, Snickers are really the way to go and get there. You should have one balanced dinner per day,
so I post this to have a discussion, both pro and con... lets tear this apart and find out what really works for hikers after giving up on Freeze Dried garbage.
In short when was the last time you took an apple or a piece of beef to hike?
Feral Bill
09-22-2011, 23:49
Good rant, WOO
Just a Hiker
09-23-2011, 00:00
I've always considered long distance hiking a "License to Eat"; therefore, I have never been concerned with where my calories came from. However, I do try and eat right when I'm in town.
Odd Man Out
09-23-2011, 17:13
The rabbit fever wasn't strictly from eating no fats. It was from eating only protein. There are three macronutrients (carbohydrates, fats and protein). Carbohydrates or fats can provide all the energy you need. So a low fat diet with only protein and carbs would be OK, with the minor exception that there are some essential fatty acids that your body can't make so they have to be in your diet.
That being said, the notion of fats are evil, sugar is evil, beer is evil, etc... as a way to better nutrition is not the way to go. Beer doesn't make you fat. Too much beer makes you fat. Same with fats, sugars, etc. Good nutrition doesn't come in the form of a pill. It's really very simple:
Exercise a lot. Eat and drink lots of different things. Don't eat and drink too much. Consume fresh foods and beer. Eat colorful foods. Don't be afraid of your food.
HiKen2011
09-23-2011, 17:36
Watch this movie, it's on netflix.........Forks over Knives
Wise Old Owl
09-23-2011, 20:00
Odd Man Out interesting different take - good post!
I like the idea of seeing what works. What do you consider a "balanced meal"?
I am trying to prepare for a thru hike in 2012, and would be interested in a good pemmican recipe, or hard tack. I am highly sensitive to gluten and dairy, so I will be making most of my food. I pretty much live on fat and protein, and low carbs.
It will be interesting to follow this thread.
Thanks.
Ok, overall I like your "rant" But I have to disagree with it in part.
I QUOTE
"one thing that was missed outside of the excerpt - she quoted white breast meat was lower in fat than a leg, skin off she would be wrong... dark meat is dark because it's lower in fat. The legs do all the work and the fat goes to the breast & belly of the bird."
I've searched the web and I can't find anywhere that gives the fat content of chicken breast higher than that of dark meat. Do you have anything to support your claim?
The best site I have found for that stuff http://www.calorieking.com/.
I think low fat diets became popular because there are more calories per volume in fat than in starch, so people got the idea that they could eat a whole stack of rice cakes before meeting the caloric content of a couple bites of peanut butter. The problem is that fat makes you feel full and starch does not, so dieters would fill up on cartons of snackwell cookies at a time, and not get the results they hoped for.
I used to be a fan of Dr. Atkins, until I learned that my body does need a bit of carbs and starch for various functions. All things in moderation is the key.
Watch this movie, it's on netflix.........Forks over Knives
But read this first:
http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/#more-1487
Or this one:
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
The China Study isn't all it's cracked up to be in terms of validating veggie/vegan diets.
Odd Man Out
09-24-2011, 14:19
For OddBird, I consider a balance diet to be one where you eat a variety of stuff. A lot of "diets" are based on eating certain foods in certain combinations (the grapefruit diet, the tofu diet, the "eat fish on rainy thursday diet, etc...). I suspect that is all rubbish. Just eat a variety of foods and don't worry about it. As I said, there are three basic kinds of macronutrients. These are the foods you digest to provide energy (catabolism) and the foods that provide the building blocks to make things (anabolism). These are fats, proteins, and carbs. As long as you are eating all of these, you probably don't need to worry about having too much of one or not enough of another. The idea that one food is good or bad is nonsense. If you eat only protein you die. If you eat no protein, you die. So what do you do? Eat a little of everything. Also, eating a variety of things protects you from having an incomplete diet. If you are a vegetarian and eat only grains, you will be missing certain amino acids in your protein. If you eat only legumes, you will miss others. If you eat a variety, you get them all (note that meat and dairy proteins are usually have all the amino acids, so the carnivores need not worry about that problem).
Also for OddBird, you can get by on only fat and protein, but it will make your metabolism a bit inefficient. You must have some carbohydrates in your blood at all time. Some tissues (most notably the brain), needs blood sugar (glucose) to keep going. This is why you get dizzy when you are hypoglycemic. Your brain just starts to shut off. If you are not eating carbohydrates (sugar), then your body had to make its own to keep a constant blood glucose level to keep your brain working. As it turns out, you can not make glucose from fats, so that leaves only the protein in your diet that is able to make glucose. However, it takes energy to turn protein into sugar (plus you have to get rid of the excess nitrogen as urea, which takes more energy). The energy comes from burning the fat. BTW, this is the reason why you starve to death on protein-only diets - although you can get some energy from catabolizing protein, there is a limit to how much you can do in a day, and if that is your only energy source, you can't get enough from protein catabolism to give you enough energy to turn the rest of the protein into the sugar you need. So what do you do? Eat a balance diet. Carbs to give you the sugar you must have, protein to support anabolism of muscles and enzymes, and fats for energy.
As for the fat in chicken question, I'm not sure about the fat content of white meat vs dark meat. But dark meat is dark because it contains myoglobin, an oxygen binding protein similar to hemoglobin in your red blood cells. If you cut into an uncooked steak, you may notice that the meat on the outside is a different color than the meat on the inside. This is because the meat on the outside is exposed to more oxygen and the myoglobin changes color when it binds oxygen. White meat in chicken and turkey is white because it has relatively little myoglobin. These muscle cells are adapted for doing anaerobic metabolism. Anaerobic metabolism can generate useful energy at a faster rate than aerobic muscles, but it does it inefficiently and only for a short period of time. This is why sprinters run faster than marathoners. They are using more anaerobic metabolism to generate energy more rapidly. But this is inefficient and can only be sustained for a short race (100 to 200 m). Marathoners run aerobically at a slower pace, but one that can be sustained almost indefinitely. So why do turkeys have white meat in their legs and white meat in the breast? That is because they fly like sprinters and run like marathoners. Turkeys are so heavy and such poor fliers, that that only way they can generate enough energy to get off the ground is to have flight muscles (breast muscles) that do the rapid anaerobic metabolism. As a result, they can't fly very far. But they do fly up into the trees at night to roost (I saw that in Zion NP a few years ago), or they might fly short distances to escape a predator. But to travel long distances (aerobically), they have to walk and use their aerobically adapted (i.e. myoglobin rich and dark colored) leg muscles. Note that you don't see large flocks of turkeys flying south for the winter. They couldn't do that. But if you have duck or goose for Thanksgiving diner, you would notice that the duck breast and goose breast is also dark meat. Migratory birds must be marathon fliers, so they must also have aerobically adapted flight (breast) muscles.
One last thing, anaerobic metabolism can't burn fat. This only works on carbs. Aerobic metabolism burs fats and carbs. So it would make sense that white meat would be lower in fat, but on the other hand, the fat burned by the aerobic dark meat could be stored in other parts of the animal and transported to the muscles in the blood. I don't know enough bird physiology to know which happens.
Pedaling Fool
09-24-2011, 15:25
I hate white meat. I like chocolate milkshakes.
hikerboy57
09-24-2011, 15:55
gluten free seems to be the latest food trend, with everything from water to orange juice now labeled "gluten free".
Personally, I love gluten, wish it could be packaged separately
gluten free seems to be the latest food trend, with everything from water to orange juice now labeled "gluten free".
Personally, I love gluten, wish it could be packaged separately
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_gluten_%28food%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_gluten_%28food%29) <-- Seitan?
Nothing beats poptarts for breakfast. cashews and m & m's all day and a pasta for 4 all for yourself for dinner adding a bag of tuna or chicken. In town most head for pizza and beer. I head to the the market, eggs and steak. I eat a dozen eggs a day in town and boil a dozen to take back on the trail. Try to eat all the red meat I can in town. If I tried to hike on jerky and dried fruit I would wear out my teeth and get Charlie horses in my jaw. You know quickly what folks do not want by looking in the hiker boxes. The stuff they are full of is what hikers do not want. If I ate rice, oatmeal and dehydrated stuff I bet I could make it to Maine without spending a dime. Your body will speak to you if you are not eating right, like in overuse injuries. Just my take for better or not.
hikerboy57
09-24-2011, 17:13
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_gluten_(food) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_gluten_(food)) <-- Seitan?this is great news, as I work in an area surrounded by asian food markets!looking forward to my first gluten bacon cheeseburger(baconcheeseglutenburger?)
gluten free seems to be the latest food trend, with everything from water to orange juice now labeled "gluten free".
Personally, I love gluten, wish it could be packaged separately
Personally I have nothing against those who love gluten, but for me it is not a trend or fad. I get very ill when I am exposed to small amounts of gluten and dairy. I wish it were not so, but that is how my body works. Check out the baking section sometime, and you will find bags of gluten. Enjoy!
hikerboy57
09-24-2011, 18:07
Personally I have nothing against those who love gluten, but for me it is not a trend or fad. I get very ill when I am exposed to small amounts of gluten and dairy. I wish it were not so, but that is how my body works. Check out the baking section sometime, and you will find bags of gluten. Enjoy!oddbird, absolutely no offense was intended, as I know several people who cannot ingest gluten. rather, its becoming the norm to tout "benefits" that dont actually exist. Next time you go to the grocery store, look at how many foods that never had gluten in the first place are now labelled "gluten free". its corporate greed catering to peoples need to feel healthier about the crap they eat.the intentional misinformation is what upsets me.
But for me, give me gluten.
Wise Old Owl
09-24-2011, 19:58
Ok, overall I like your "rant" But I have to disagree with it in part.
I QUOTE
"one thing that was missed outside of the excerpt - she quoted white breast meat was lower in fat than a leg, skin off she would be wrong... dark meat is dark because it's lower in fat. The legs do all the work and the fat goes to the breast & belly of the bird."
I've searched the web and I can't find anywhere that gives the fat content of chicken breast higher than that of dark meat. Do you have anything to support your claim?
No - you have me - I read it years ago in a survival book .... However - lets look at a typical Turkey - or Rabbit and remember meat has marbled or fat that is white. All the legs are dark because of less visible fat, meat high in fat is visually lighter - example veal where no exercise is possible. It is a simple judgement based on color. IF you don't believe me fry up dark meat and white side by side slowly with a cover - the fat will melt out more on one side.... about 250 degrees
Wise Old Owl
09-24-2011, 20:19
I hate white meat. I like chocolate milkshakes.
I was hoping you would add your "science knowledge" to this - both pro or con...
Oddbird, my knowledge of "Gluten Free" is hampered by my ability to understand how to bake bread, I have making bread almost down - but have met and hung out with master brewers - who know more about bread than I do.... Everything you do - is totally opposite to what I know. I am sure you have done some reading on the subject - and know what works for you - so continue to weight in on the posts. I will endeavor to find someone who might know how to answer your questions.
WingedMonkey
09-24-2011, 20:30
Rabbit is one of the lowest fat meats man eats.
oddbird, absolutely no offense was intended, as I know several people who cannot ingest gluten. rather, its becoming the norm to tout "benefits" that dont actually exist. Next time you go to the grocery store, look at how many foods that never had gluten in the first place are now labelled "gluten free". its corporate greed catering to peoples need to feel healthier about the crap they eat.the intentional misinformation is what upsets me.
But for me, give me gluten.
No worries hikerboy57. I agree with you about the big companies wanting to make a buck off of it, and yeah, I would love to be able to join you for all you can eat pancakes :)
Wise Old Owl
09-24-2011, 23:04
Rabbit is one of the lowest fat meats man eats.
First couple of times the wife came home to four legged chicken... she knew from looking at the kitchen ... I did it... now she cannot tell. I can clean & gut and prepare - from the backyard. BBQ gone -awesome!
WingedMonkey
09-24-2011, 23:30
However, store bought, cage raised domestic rabbit is what the nutritional information is based on. And they are raised just as confined as the high fat veal you referred to. Therefor their lack of exercise has no effect on meats fat content.
Odd Man Out
09-25-2011, 00:04
its becoming the norm to tout "benefits" that dont actually exist. Next time you go to the grocery store, look at how many foods that never had gluten in the first place are now labelled "gluten free". its corporate greed catering to peoples need to feel healthier about the crap they eat.the intentional misinformation is what upsets me.
In general, I agree. But in the case of gluten, it is of value to those who really can't eat gluten to know what products really are gluten free, especially since many processed foods that you think might be gluten free (a rice cake, for example), could include trace amounts of gluten (unnecessarily) way down in the ingredient list. There is not easy way to know for sure from looking at the product, in most cases if it is gluten free. And because Celiacs is an autoimmune disease, it only take a trace amount to cause a problem. These people really need to know this. Perhaps a better example is when a bag a Twizzlers is marked "fat free", as if it's health food. Now that's stupid.
It is a simple judgement based on color. IF you don't believe me fry up dark meat and white side by side slowly with a cover - the fat will melt out more on one side.... about 250 degrees
Like I said I'm with you on most of your points but you will render more fat from 4 oz of dark chicken meat than 4 oz of white chicken meat. Since most chickens we eat don't have sustained use of their flight muscles, this part of the bird has less oxygen-carrying myoglobin than the walking muscles — and that’s what gives the meat a lighter color. Waterfowl, like geese and ducks who do use their flight muscles, have darker breast meat. "
Daydream Believer
09-25-2011, 07:52
Interesting topic. I have Celiac Disease...found out in my early 40's...explained why I had IBS for years and years. Anyway, I HAVE to avoid gluten or I am sick as a dog. Even doing a strictly gluten free diet I was still miserable with autoimmune symptoms. Last march my husband and I started on the "Paleo Diet" which is simply eating as our ancestors did...no grains, no dairy, few legumes, no sugar (or much less), lots of lean/grass fed meats, veggies, nuts, and fruits. That's all there is to it really...eat as people did before the very recent (in an evolutionary sense) agricultural revolutions where grains and milk products became a staple of our diets. The turnaround in my health has been remarkable. My husband lost over 40 lbs without working out..just the diet change...and I lost 20. Since then several of our friends have started on this lifestyle and they've all lost significant weight also. It is a low carb diet of sorts but you are eating so much nutritious food that you are not left lacking in nutrients and the pickup in how you feel energy wise and overall well being is nearly immediate.
One "problem" is that once you give up and get used to not eating the inflammatory foods like grains, legumes and dairy, it's difficult to put them back into your diet without feeling ill. No kidding...it's self policing. My one friend who's been on Paleo a month and lost 20 lbs said she tried to eat a doughnut and a soft drink the other day and she felt so ill all afternoon she had to go home from work. She swore that off. I don't even bother trying it anymore but my one weekness remains chocolate...but I stick to the dark chocolates and do OK on it.
Now my challenge is feeding myself on my upcoming hike. I will be hardboiling eggs to take with me as well as making some almond flour baked goods for breakfast and snacks. Seriously..almond flour makes incredible muffins, breads, cookies, etc... and it's high in protein and low in glycemic index. It's also completely gluten free and "paleo' if you are into that. There is a book on Amazon. I will be loading on carbs (mostly potatoes but I may try some rice and see if I can eat it OK) for dinner mostly using standard hiking fare. I will have a lot of dehydrated fruits and various nuts also for snacks.
Anyway, I agree that fat is not evil but keep in mind that all fat is not created equal. Fat from grain fed meats is high in Omega 6 fatty acids where fat from grass fed meats is higher in Omega 3s...basically what we are designed to eat. Same with eggs also...different nutrition depending on how the animal was fed and cared for.
Wise Old Owl
09-25-2011, 09:32
However, store bought, cage raised domestic rabbit is what the nutritional information is based on. And they are raised just as confined as the high fat veal you referred to. Therefor their lack of exercise has no effect on meats fat content.
Excellent point _ I noticed that the farm raised has less gristle & sinew.
Nutritional Value of Rabbit Meat:
by Robert Oni
Average Nutritional Content of Rabbit meat is:
Calories – 300g (18% from Fat, 82% form protein & 0% from
Carbohydrate);
Total Fat – 4.1g (2.3g Lipid Fat, 0.7g
Saturated Fat, 0.6g Monosaturated Fat, 0.4g polysaturated Fat
& 86mg Cholesterol;
Sodium – 40mg; Carbohydrate – 0g; Dietary Fat – 0g; Sugar – 0;
Protien – 41.9g,
Calcium – 12mg;
Water – 58.9;
Ash – 1.1;
Alcohol & Caffeine – 0.
Nutritional Value of Edible Meats:
Rabbit (% Protein – 20.8, % Fat – 4.5, Calories/Ib – 795)
Veal (% Protein – 19.1, % Fat – 12, Calories/Ib – 840)
Chicken (% Protein – 20.0, % Fat – 17.9, Calories/Ib – 810)
Turkey (% Protein – 20.1, % Fat – 20, Calories/Ib – 1,190)
Lamb (% Protein – 15.7, % Fat – 27.7, Calories/Ib – 1,420)
Beef (% Protein – 16.3, % Fat – 28.0, Calories/Ib – 1,440)
Duck (% Protein – 16.0, % Fat – 28.6, Calories/Ib – 1,015)
Pork (% Protein – 11.9, % Fat – 45, Calories/Ib – 2,050)
Moytoy - I think I see your point - I will look further into it.......
When not hiking I eat what I crave: water, starches, fat, protein.
While hiking I eat what I crave: water, starches, fat, protein, chocolate.
I like chocolate; therefore, I like hiking.
Wise Old Owl
09-25-2011, 21:09
Backpacking Superfoods
Printable (http://www.packitgourmet.com/pages.php?printable=Y&pageid=22)
Superfoods are foods that pack a nutritional punch! Important in everyday life, superfoods are even more useful on the trail where your body needs extra nutrients to keep it strong after stressful days of hiking, climbing and paddling. Superfoods are loaded with the big three for optimal health – antioxidants, nutrients and fiber (http://www.packitgourmet.com/The+Secret+To+Superfoods-sp23.html). We’ve put together a list of some of our favorite Backpacking Superfoods to help you make the most of your time in the outdoors.
Wild Salmon
Inflamed, sore muscles are soothed by eating salmon which is high in muscle-repairing protein and omega-3 fatty acids. Our vacuum-sealed, lightweight wild salmon is packed with the same nutrients as fresh salmon – so eat up!
Wild Salmon (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Chicken-of-the-Sea-Pink-Salmon-p21.html)
Berries
Many berries, especially blueberries, are packed with antioxidants which act as anti-inflammatories, helping to sooth sore muscles. Blueberries will also help keep you mentally sharp and are high in potassium and vitamin C. Snack on dried berries while your setting up camp and reap the most benefits – the enzymes that transfer glucose to tired muscles are most active 30 minutes after a tough workout.
(Goji Berries, Blueberries, Blackberries, Cranberries, Boysenberries, Elderberries and Raspberries)
Summer Berry Trifle (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Summer-Berry-Trifle-p176.html) | Freeze-Dried Blueberries (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Blueberries-p230.html)
Olive Oil
Olive oil is loaded with good fats that provide long-lasting energy and antioxidants. Olive oil is also great for aching muscles and joints because it acts as an anti-inflammatory.
Olive Oil (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Atlantic-Organic-Organic-Extra-Virgin-Olive-Oil-p11.html) | Pesto Dipping Sauce (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Pesto-Dipping-Sauce-p149.html) | Za'tar Dipping Sauce (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Zatar-Dipping-Sauce-p150.html)
Walnuts
Packed with beneficial omega-3s and antioxidants, walnuts help repair tired muscles after a long day of hiking, paddling or climbing. Great as a snack or mixed into oatmeal or granola, walnuts may also help to lower blood cholesterol levels which will add years to your outdoor adventures.
Almonds
Snack on almonds while hiking or sauté them in olive oil to dress up your couscous. However you choose to eat them, these meaty nuts will help to repair tired muscles, rebuild your calcium stores and give your body an instant protein boost. Almonds pack six grams of protein per ounce and three grams of fiber which will help to control blood sugar. Rich in heart-healthy fats, they also boast muscle-relaxing magnesium, bone-building calcium and immune-boosting vitamin E. Who knew such a small nut could pack such a healthy kick?
Dark Chocolate
Brimming with antioxidants, dark chocolate is a sweet way to get a burst of fast acting energy. This is a great snack to eat about an hour before a steep climb or swift rapid. Plus, dark chocolate’s micronutrients help lower blood pressure, increase blood flow and promote heart health.
Milk
We all know that calcium is good for building strong bones on a daily basis but it’s even more important when bones have been stressed by a day of hiking or climbing. Milk is also a good source of protein, zinc and vitamin B which all work to keep you going strong.
Full Cream Powdered Milk (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Natures-First-Full-Cream-Milk-Powder-p159.html) | Whole Milk Powder (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Nido-Instant-Whole-Milk-Powder-p437.html)| Fruit Smoothies (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Fruit-Smoothies-p138.html)
Green Leafy Vegetables
Spinach, kale, lettuce, chard and other greens are all packed with vitamins A, B and C. They also boast calcium, like milk, which is key to building strong bones and quercetin, a compound that helps sooth inflammation in sore muscles. Beta carotene, iron, magnesium and potassium are also present.
Dehydrated Spinach (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Spinach-Flakes-p218.html) | Freeze-Dried Spinach (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Chopped-Spinach-p186.html)
Tomatoes
Tomatoes, fresh, powdered or dried, are a good source of vitamin C which helps in iron absorption and helps to rebuild tissue broken down on the trail. Surprisingly, sun-dried tomatoes pack up to 12 times the nutrients of fresh tomatoes at a fraction of the weight!
Tomato Dices (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Tomato-Dices-p57.html) | Tomato Powder (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Tomato-Powder-p169.html) | Market Pasta Puttanesca (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Market-Pasta-Puttanesca-p277.html)
Whole-Grain Oats
Have you ever noticed that you stay full for hours after eating a hearty breakfast of whole-grain pancakes? Slow-burning complex carbs and a high protein content (6 grams per cooked cup) help you keep going long after the last plate has been washed. Plus, these oats contain beta-glucan, a fiber that boosts the immune system and lowers cholesterol!
Red Beans
Red beans are amazingly high in fiber, which will not only help to lower your cholesterol, but because they take longer to digest, you’ll feel full longer. Try our Zydeco Red Beans & Rice for a complete protein that tastes great on the trail!
Red Beans (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Red-Beans-p194.html) | Zydeco Red Beans & Rice (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Cajun-Red-Beans--Rice-p237.html)
Kidney Beans
These little beans are a great source for low-fat protein, topping out at about 16 grams per cup. Kidney beans are also full of folic acid and antioxidants which are an anti-inflammatory, great for sore muscles on the trail.
Kidney Beans (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Kidney-Beans-p197.html) | Many Beans Salad (http://www.packitgourmet.com/Many-Beans-Salad-p162.html)
Flaxseed
Ground flaxseed helps prevent cell damage that goes hand in hand with strenuous exercise thanks to omega-3 fatty acids. Flaxseed also helps to lower cholesterol and contains phytoestrogens that may lower cancer risk.
After a few days in my backpack, raw meat isn't quite as healthy as I would like. Fresh veggies aren't looking too good either. I think the nastiest thing I ever had in my pack was 5-day old broccoli after 5 days in the desert. Backpacking food is not very healthy.
Here's a good video that I think makes it a little more clear what you are saying, WOO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSeSTq-N4U4
hikerboy57
09-26-2011, 12:39
good article from AMC outdoors:http://www.outdoors.org/publications/outdoors/2011/outandfit/high-calorie-trail-diet.cfm
Wise Old Owl
10-02-2011, 08:54
After a few days in my backpack, raw meat isn't quite as healthy as I would like. Fresh veggies aren't looking too good either. I think the nastiest thing I ever had in my pack was 5-day old broccoli after 5 days in the desert. Backpacking food is not very healthy.
Here's a good video that I think makes it a little more clear what you are saying, WOO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSeSTq-N4U4
WOW! Yes that is excellent- Folks the best part is open a second window continue to post and listen to this hour seminar! It has a slow start - but he nails it....
I will post comments shortly! After watching...
He doesn't address the action of alcohol - such as beer that is loaded with sugars and carbs suppressing the ability to burn the fat off.
He doesn't address the actions of high sodium and nitrates.
He addresses corporations who mislabel products to make money.
At the end he breifly talks about removing sugar - in a way but doesn't address Corn Syrup
Excellent information.
Advocating eating the highest fat content - and eating less and feeling full. The point is made at the very end. The governments food pyramid is just that a miss-information of a pyramid scheme. I called several companies about the sodium levels in their manufactured food that the added salt was for added flavor, and that it was "way off scale" and why where they doing that... the replies were based on the nutionional guidelines of the goverment.The Goverment required that much added salts... Those conversations were with Hormel, Boston Market, and a few others..
Odd Man Out
10-02-2011, 10:54
He doesn't address the action of alcohol - such as beer that is loaded with sugars and carbs suppressing the ability to burn the fat off.
This is an example of the problem I have with much nutritional info. We have gone from making fats the bad guy to making carbs the bad guy. There is nothing wrong with beer. There is lots of evidence that it is quite good for you. You don't get a beer belly from drinking beer. You get a beer belly from drinking too much beer. I will stick to my previous guidelines: Eat a little bit of a lot of different things. Exercise more, Don't be afraid of your food.
WingedMonkey
10-02-2011, 11:52
Step away from the beer Mr. Owl, I don't care if it's can, keg or home brew.
:sun
Wise Old Owl
10-02-2011, 12:07
WM - you are as bad as my wife... I didn't know you cared - Thanks!:D
I agree with the above two posts... but there is nothing that refreshes after a long hike like a beer. "just in moderation"
OK - So how can we apply this to backpacking? Most prepared meals are full of noodles rice and other carbs!
Should we change to a high fat /fruit diet while hiking? Do you still think a low fat traditional with lots of wheat flour is the way to go? What works for you?
Wise Old Owl
10-04-2011, 21:05
Like I said I'm with you on most of your points but you will render more fat from 4 oz of dark chicken meat than 4 oz of white chicken meat. Since most chickens we eat don't have sustained use of their flight muscles, this part of the bird has less oxygen-carrying myoglobin than the walking muscles — and that’s what gives the meat a lighter color. Waterfowl, like geese and ducks who do use their flight muscles, have darker breast meat. "
Think about where we are fat - the more we walk - its not in the legs - that energy is burned.
with getting into an argument - feel free to try what I said... I remembered my source - it was Discovery Channel and was about poultry...
On the other hand I just prefer dark meat - at Thanksgiving.... by choice and flavor.
OK - So how can we apply this to backpacking? Most prepared meals are full of noodles rice and other carbs!
I'm planning a trip in November and I'm going to attempt to bring foods that fit in with a paleo-ish diet. I found something today at the health food store called coconut butter. I was looking for coconut creme, but couldn't find it. Either would work, though. This is the stuff:
http://www.amazon.com/Artisana-100-Organic-Coconut-Butter/dp/B000WV153I
I was thinking maybe I could make rice cake, coconut butter and almond butter "sandwiches" or maybe even make a "pemmican" with beef jerky. I think I wouldn't bother to mix it together. Just eat a bite of the coconut butter and a bite of beef jerky and let it mix in my mouth.
I'm still working on what else I will bring, but I really want to try the coconut butter. Other things would be the old stand-by of aged hard cheese and salami, maybe a few hardboiled eggs, tuna in packets, olive oil etc.
Wise Old Owl
11-05-2011, 14:12
OK I get it.... great idea...
Nutrition Facts
Calories in coconut butter
Serving Size: 1 tbsp
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Amount Per Serving
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Calories
90.0
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Total Fat
9.0 g
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Saturated Fat
8.0 g
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Polyunsaturated Fat
0.0 g
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Monounsaturated Fat
0.0 g
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Cholesterol
0.0 mg
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Sodium
0.0 mg
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Potassium
0.0 mg
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Total Carbohydrate
4.0 g
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Dietary Fiber
3.0 g
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Sugars
1.0 g
http://www.sparkpeople.com/MYSPARK-new/scale/spacer.gif
Protein
1.0 g
Pedaling Fool
11-05-2011, 15:06
People get fat because they eat too much, it really is that simple. This ain't no lecture it's from my own experience of getting fat. Don't put things in your mouth everytime your stomach growls. Just like you don't let your kid have candy everytime he/she whines and cries; if you did you'd spoil the kid, in the same way you spoil your body by feeding it everytime it says its hungry. And be stop eating before your belly protrudes, i.e. don't fill up 100%. The body is a very efficient machine it doesn't need three full meals a day, when you go without it feels like you're going to faint, but that you just being a pus....Again no lecture, my own experience. I got fat because I was a wuss.
Note: That's generally why people get fat, save us the lectures on various medical issues such as thyroid problems...
hikerboy57
11-05-2011, 16:27
you left out the other side of it-excercise. Backpack for a couple hundred miles, eat all you want- you'll still lose weight.a good excercise program begins with getting off the couch!If you just keep a diary and keep track of everything you ingest, you will lose weight. Most people have no idea how many calories, fat, protein, carbs theyre eating. By just keeping track, you become more concious of the crap you're putting in your body.and they also decide they dont need to be a member of the clean plate club.
First couple of times the wife came home to four legged chicken... she knew from looking at the kitchen ... I did it... now she cannot tell. I can clean & gut and prepare - from the backyard. BBQ gone -awesome!
My experince with rabbit has been with wild rabbit so might be different.I personally like just a few pieces of rabbit meat and not for example the legs. You do not want to share a washroom with somebody who has eaten a big meal of wild rabbit leg. As delicious as it is while eating, it makes the poop so malodorous that you start to think twice to have the rabbit leg next times. This is not that bad in cases of other parts of the rabbit. I dont know why and I love to know is it the case here in US or it was my middle east experince only and rabbits here are different.
There is a hermit that lives on Mather's Island, not too far from where I live and paddle around in summer and hike and ski in winter. He raises a few rabbits. Technically they are snowshoe hares, aks varying hares. Anyhow, he makes what he calls a three rabbit stew, using two of his raised rabbits, and one snared rabbit. That he says, gives the best flavour. After 30 years or however long its been, He should know.
I wouldn't say backpacking is a total licence to eat whatever you want. I think it should still be balanced and have all the neccessary vitamins and minerals. Certainly you have more calories to work with, which makes it easier. I don't think it needs to be totally balanced on a meal by meal basis or even a daily basis either, but over the course of a week, I would say make sure you are getting all the food groups. I think also, grains, especially wheat, corn, and rice, tend to be over-emphasised in the modern diet. Also, fruits are overemphasized vs vegetables.
Most important, eat real food. Accept no substitutes.
Wise Old Owl
11-06-2011, 18:42
John Gault more than most of the time you are right on target - after reading your post somehow you missed the whole point of the thread... where SB Hikes nailed it when she posted her you tube on page 2...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSeSTq-N4U4
Excellent point by John about number of meals per day. Even while hiking, we should be burning mostly fat, as much as twice as much fat as carbs, so even at 300 kcal per hour, average, 1000 kcal of carb reserves should be good for 10 hours. During a sedentary lifestyle at home, if people are getting hungry after a few hours, its not because their glycogen is getting low, it's because their stomach is empty, and their body wants to get even more fat. Don't do it. Condition your body to burn fat, and let it, and be active so you can burn even more and get fit in the process.
The question becomes, if I am burning, say, 3000 kcal of fat and 1500 kcal of carbs, and using up another 500 kcal of protien, how much should I eat? I think it depends on how much body fat you have. If you are 10% body fat, or less, you should eat roughly what you are consuming, more or less in that same ratio as you are using it. The body can convert some back and forth, but it might be better if it doesn't have to. If you are more that 10% fat and want to lose some, I think you can simply reduce the fat by about 1% of your body fat per day, so if you are 200 pounds with 50 pounds of body fat, like I am, and burning 5000 kcal per day on a hike, as above, then you could safely reduce your dietary fat by 0.5 pounds, or 1750 kcal, so you would only eat 1250 kcal fat, 1500 kcal carbs, and 500 kcal of protien. You could eat even less than that, because I think you can burn more that 1% of your body fat per day if hiking 10 hours a day, but I think 1% is still a good number to work with, at least for planning purposes.
Wise Old Owl
11-06-2011, 20:35
I am not sure that john made the right point here Jak. The average American Male Adult eats 3000 calories a day.... Women lets say 2300... (possibly why they get five more years) I looked at your numbers and I have to admit its "how" you wrote it.... so I am a little confused...4500 on the trail? uhh..OK. but what I am advocating is INCREASING fat and protein.
Tell you what..if you are 200 pounds... go hike 5 miles around a park, take a large dog with you on a short leash - let him keep you motivated..... finish it in less or at 2 hours. Now go home and drink a heavy lager.. (135 carbs) and while you are at it burn a steak (4 minutes per side) medium rear - MUST BE MARBLED T bone or something...
wait 2/3 of an hour.... How do you feel? Excuse my typing - f''''in complete! and I might add happy - no pain, no gain.
TBONE
Yuengling Premium Beer
D.G. Yuengling
4.4
135
12
Yuengling Light
D.G. Yuengling
3.8
98
6.6
Yuengling Lager
D.G. Yuengling
4.4
135
12
Johnny Thunder
11-06-2011, 20:38
The body is a very efficient machine it doesn't need three full meals a day, when you go without it feels like you're going to faint, but that you just being a pus....Again no lecture, my own experience. I got fat because I was a wuss.
i'd like to qualify this statement. first off, a SEDENTARY body is probably efficient enough to not need 3 full meals a day. that says nothing of people with active lifestyles...but then again, it's not normally the people working on their feet, or actively involved in competitive athletics that you make fat-people-are-weak generalizations about.
also to qualify, there are lots of reasons that you should maintain sugar levels throughout the day (not fasting for 12 hours and then "wailing on your foodbag"). that's not good for you and leads to the sort of eat-til-you-pop mentality about which you're telling folks that they're "just being a pus." i got sugar problems, yo. and even if i didn't work as a child wrastler and run 40 miles a week i'd probably need to break up my meals into 3 or 4 just to keep myself from (actually) fainting or (actually) seizing.
Wise Old Owl
11-06-2011, 20:44
14341paste failure - my opologies. rare that it happens - appears to be the new software
Wise Old Owl
11-06-2011, 21:00
Well not to argue with John- he posted and left to do something else - and I hate to say he took the simplest answer and this is where I argue with my dad on this... IF (and I have) eat six meals a day and eat more food and loose 30 pounds and NOT excercise over the course (10 weeks) - what does that do to his post?
Lets drop the trail for the moment...
I am going back to weight watchers and LA weight loss.... ( NO exercise) and this is a predominately female program to UNDO the damage.
They don't say it but the current undertone is based on simple ideas
Raise Understanding
Raise Proteins
Raise unsaturated fats
Raise Vitamins
Raise Motabolism
Raise fish oils & fruits
Eat smaller - but more meals
Lower cholestorol
Lower Salt
Lower Sodium
Lower Sulfates
Lower Carbs
Lower sugars
attempt all that - and that is very hard to do... this is my take on those programs...
The Food Revolution video brings home some issues with a carb-centric diet that makes a lot of sense, as does the article The Good Badger posted about post trail weight gain: http://zrdavis.com/. What we eat on the trail affects our performance while hiking - And once we get home. Evidence suggests that eating a diet that emphasizes protein and fat over carbs is going to be more healthy for us. On the other hand, many carbs have proteins and can be combined with other foods to provide complete proteins with adequate proportion of essential amino acids. Also, we need to restore deleted glycogen levels in our muscles after 8-10 hours of backpacking to prepare to do it all again the next day.
Obviously, control over nutrition is easier for the backpacker who prepares food at home before heading out for shorter-duration hike. For the thru-hiker, unless one is prepared to live on drop boxes, it might be harder when re-supplying along the way. And, there is storage and prep to consider. It's awfully easy to whip up some mac and cheese at the end of a hard day, or mashed potatoes, or couscous, or (and this one slays me) instant turkey dressing... Carrying fresh meat, fish and veggies is not happening, and dried versions of these might be hard to find along the trail.
So, the key seems to be to find alternative sources of protein, fat and veggies. Here's some ideas:
Proteins- Not hard to find backpackable proteins really, and many are way up there in the calories/oz ratio:
Bags of tuna, salmon, chicken - Heavy, but a couple per week might be worth the weight penalty
Dehydrated eggs - Might have to put a pack in an occasional drop box
Jerky - low in fat, high in sodium but can be chewed while hiking or chopped into a cookpot
Quinoa - Becoming more readily available in grocery stores
Dried milk for cereal/coffee
Soy protein supplements
Instant black/red/kidney beans
Lentils
Almonds, walnuts, cashews - mix into oatmeal, or combine with dried fruit as a trail snack
Peanut butter
Sunflower, pumpkin and flax seeds
Cheeses and powdered cheese
Fats - Some of the above are great sources of fats. Add a bottle of olive oil for healthy fat and one of the highest calories/oz
Berries - Many of the ones prized for anti-oxidant qualities are also lower carb, can be found dried in many supermarkets- and can be found along the trail. The downside is that they tend to be high in sugar/carbs and should probably be consumed in moderation:
Blueberries
Cranberries
Raisens
Blackberries
Banana chips
Carry a piece of fresh fruit for the first day out
Vegies - This is hard. Fresh won't hold up well, and I don't imagine finding dried veggies along the trail except in those towns which have health food stores - I'm thinking of splitting up some stuff among the half-dozen drop boxes I'm considering:
Tomato powder
Dried onions, broccoli, carrots, celery, garlic, peppers
I suspect one could easily carry a few fresh carrots for the first couple of days out ...
Carbs - The trick is to choose things with fiber and protein:
Oat and barley flakes
Polenta
Instant brown rice (Mix w/ beans for a complete protein)
dehydrated sweet potatoes
crispy flat breads
whole wheat tortillas
Multivitamins and fish oil suppliments ...
Wise Old Owl
11-06-2011, 21:31
Wow lots of info CW. - would you accept a day so I can read and absorb this new material?... Seriously.
Pedaling Fool
11-07-2011, 09:45
I am not sure that john made the right point here Jak. The average American Male Adult eats 3000 calories a day.... Women lets say 2300... (possibly why they get five more years) I looked at your numbers and I have to admit its "how" you wrote it.... so I am a little confused...4500 on the trail? uhh..OK. but what I am advocating is INCREASING fat and protein.
TBONE
Yuengling Premium Beer
D.G. Yuengling
4.4
135
12
Yuengling Light
D.G. Yuengling
3.8
98
6.6
Yuengling Lager
D.G. Yuengling
4.4
135
12
Yes, I was a little off topic, but this topic is mostly associated with weight loss vs. the best nutritional diet, in itself, so I wasn't that far off topic, because that's really why people want a better diet - to lose weight. When I hike I always have nutrition in mind, but only worry about the basics, like having plenty of fats, protien, carbs...But I never count calories or measure grams of fat/protien per day; to me that's just not needed.
Generally the vast majority of food-related health problems in the U.S. is not nutritional, it's simply overeating. I just don't care about the issue of what's healthier between chicken and red meat. It's just one of those things I do, not by counting calories or measuring grams of fat/protien, but rather by what my body hungers for, but now I just do it in lower amounts/portions.
i'd like to qualify this statement. first off, a SEDENTARY body is probably efficient enough to not need 3 full meals a day. that says nothing of people with active lifestyles...but then again, it's not normally the people working on their feet, or actively involved in competitive athletics that you make fat-people-are-weak generalizations about.
also to qualify, there are lots of reasons that you should maintain sugar levels throughout the day (not fasting for 12 hours and then "wailing on your foodbag"). that's not good for you and leads to the sort of eat-til-you-pop mentality about which you're telling folks that they're "just being a pus." i got sugar problems, yo. and even if i didn't work as a child wrastler and run 40 miles a week i'd probably need to break up my meals into 3 or 4 just to keep myself from (actually) fainting or (actually) seizing.I was weak that's why I got fat and that is why so many americans are fat -- eating for most is more about psychological comfort than what the body needs.
I live a very active lifestyle, I cycle 20-30 miles per day, run on a regular basis of no less than 5 miles at least a couple times a week and weight train, even with all that activity if I were to eat 3 full meals a day I'd start looking as fat as I was before my 2006 hike. I basically eat the way I learned to during my hike. Breakfast of oatmeal, once in a while eggs or just cereal, but never to the point of "filling up". Through out the day I snack on things like various types of nutribars or even potato chips -- actually a good energy source (Simple ingredients: Dehydrated Potatoes, Oil, Salt), and for dinner, my biggest meal, it varies a lot, but usually a steak or chicken with other things like mashed potatoes/rice and various veggies, but again DON'T FILL UP.
However, everyone is different and I know there are some that can eat and eat and eat and not gain weight, but most just need to look at a chocolate cake and gain a lb, that's the category I'm in. I can gain weight so damn easy, so the traditional 3 squares a day is just wrong for me, even with my active lifestyle. YMMV, you just have to see what works for you.
What I was trying to say is that high percent carb diets are not neccessarily bad. The problem with carbs is when you have too much in absolute terms, so that it inhibits your bodies desire and ability to burn fat, and make and store fat if calories exceed requirements.
Example, less active 200 pound male burning 2000 kcal per day:
Requirements:
200 kcal prot. = 10%
600 kcal carbs = 30%
1200 kcal fats = 60%
This is based on the premise that when less active, up to and including moderate hiking efforts, the body should be burning mostly fats, as much as twice as much fats as carbohydrates. If the above person then diets, by reducing his fat intake from 1200 kcal to say 400 kcal, his diet will look like this...
Calorie Reduced Diet:
200 kcal prot. = 17%
600 kcal carbs= 50%
400 kcal fats = 33%
loses about 1.6 pounds per week
High % carbs, but not high carbs in absolute terms. Also, once conditioned, this person should not have to eat 3 or more meals or snacks to avoid low blood sugar. If he is burning mostly fats, as the body should at low efforts, he should only be burning 600 kcal of carbs in 24 hours, and perhaps only 300 kcal during his more active 8 hours of the day between breakfast and supper. He should not require lunch, never mind snacks. If he stores even a moderate 1200 kcal of carbs in his liver and muscles, a 300 kcal deficite by suppertime should not be severe. With training, and exercise, he could store 2000 kcal or more, but then again he would be burning more calories. Still, multiple meals and snacks are less important when you are burning more fat. Not that a little grazing here and there is a bad thing. It isn't. The problem is that most people overconsume carbs, throughout the day, and this inhibits the bodies natural desire to burn fats, and conserve carbs for higher intensity activity, like running at fast speeds for 15min to 2 hours.
For the hikers, burning 4000 kcal/day:
Requirements:
400 kcal prot. = 10%
1200 kcal carbs = 30%
2400 kcal fats = 60%
Calorie Reduced Diet:
400 kcal prot. = 17%
1200 kcal carbs= 50%
800 kcal fats = 33%
loses about 3.3 pounds per week
For the hikers, burning 6000 kcal/day:
Requirements:
600 kcal prot. = 10%
1800 kcal carbs= 30%
3600 kcal fats = 60%
Calorie Reduced Diet:
600 kcal prot. = 17%
1800 kcal carbs= 50%
1200 kcal fats = 33%
loses about 5 pounds per week
You could probably reduce the fats further in the above diets, which make the carbs even high, in relative but not absolute terms. The important thing if you do this, is to not eat extra carbs if you can't handle it, because then you will be reverting back to a higher carb diet in absolute terms, and losing your bodies ability to burn fat and conserve carbs.
When I do this sort of diet, the only thing I eat between meals is tea or coffee with skim milk. The skim milk has 2 kcal of protien for every 3 kcal of carbs, so you would even have a little wiggle room for some carbs, like fruit, but I caution against it because its a slippery slope. You could also use 1% or 2% milk, or even whole milk, as long as you daily totals are your targets. I prefer skim milk with tea, and skim milk powder is easier when hiking.
This sort of diet is easiest when hiking, because there are more calories to work with and the exercise is pretty steady through the day. Also, your food opportunites are limited to what you bring along, unless you hit a berry patch. So I only do 2 meals a day when hiking, and only drink some tea with skim milk powder and spices along the way. Maybe some wood sorrel now and then, or berries if I see any.
At home it is more challenging. Exercising definitely helps, but introduces some questions about refueling. It can be overdone. You have to work the numbers.
Regarding wild rabbits, or hares as we have up here. They do have less fat than the same species raised domestically as pets or for meat. Also the percentage fat in rabbits/hares varies with the time of year. They tend to have the most fat around the time of the first snow, and the least fat around the time of the last snow, which co-incidentally is also around the time that a trapper etc would most likely be starving also.
The vast majority of people are well marbled, with lots of extra layers of fat, like a bear ready to go into hibernation. Trouble is, we never hibernate. I don't think weight swings are as bad as they are made out to be. So what if you gain it all back. Not ideal, but 6 months of being 50 pounds less fat is better than not have lost weight at all. The point is to try and live a more naturally active lifestyle, with a more natural diet. For most of us, that means more exercise, and less carbohydrates.
Combining foods to get complete proteins that contains an adequate proportion of all nine of the essential amino acids. Who knew that peanut butter on whole wheat bread was health food?
http://www.bodyforlife2.com/incompletprotein.htm
(http://www.bodyforlife2.com/incompletprotein.htm)
You don't neccessarily have to combine them in the same meal either, but alot of the combinations go well together. I tend to have oatmeal for breakfast, which is very complete, just a little low in lysine. I have lentil soup at the end of the day, and it has some surplus lysine. Even still, if I only ate oats it would be complete enough, protien wise. The other reason is to balance food groups is for the vitamins and minerals and stuff.
Good stuff. I keep reading posts here, and in Facebook AT forums saying "It ain't rocket science," but it can sure approach it. Clearly, with a little knowledge, one can resupply along the trail and eat well ...
beakerman
11-08-2011, 12:37
I generally eat what I am craving. After a hiking trip I crave lots of veggies. I mean lots of them...I'm talking sit down and eat an entire stalk of celery in one go craving them...and that will go on for at least two days depending on the length of the trip. I also crave a good dark beer immediately after coming off the trail.
Then comes the protien and salt craving a day or so after that.
While on the trip I crave protien and carbs. I know this because I've done enough of these things.. I'm not sure if its habit now or a true craving..like when I first started camping with boy scouts...sitting around the camp fire with out a beer was very uncomfortable...I wanted that beer in that camp fire setting. But I figure my body in the past has craved the things it needed and i see no reason to stop that.
Calories in - Calories out is a big fat lie:
Gary Taubes' talk at Google HQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6vpFV6Wkl4)
An update about the coconut butter. I tasted it. It's so delicious. I melted it in a double-boiler with some coconut oil and 87% dark chocolate then poured the melted mixture into paper-lined muffin cups. Added some nuts. Made a delicious low-carb "candy". I'm bringing that on my next backpack trip for sure.
Other things for my backpack trip this month:
aged gouda
fresh pepperoni sausage
concentrated coconut for making coconut curry sauce
spices to make curry sauce
rice noodles
miso soup
beef jerky
rice crackers
almond butter
coconut butter (tastes good eaten by the spoonful)
dark chocolate
nuts
Wise Old Owl
11-10-2011, 01:13
Fyi in my gallery you would see a 255 pound hiker - in the last two months I am now 238 today and I intend to keep going.
Awesome. Keep up the good work. Went for a 24.2 km run/hike yesterday with some bushwacking along the way. Dropped 6 pounds during the hike, but mostly water of course. Might have burned 0.5 pounds of fat. Not sure. Hope to get out again today. 210 ish.
I read yesterday that lysine is one of the few essential amino acids that cannot be converted into glucose when blood glucose gets low ( doesn't have to be too low, just somewhat depleted). It so happens that that is the only essential amino acid that oats are somewhat low on, so if you are converting some of your dietary protien into glucose, oatmeal becomes even more perfect as a hiking food, a complete protien for all intensive purposes as long as you eat a little extra. Not that you should only eat oatmeal, because it doesn't have ALL the vitamins and minerals you need, and it is somewhat high in carbs, but you probably could hike a long way on oatmeal alone, if you were only allowed one type of food. Of course choking down 4000 kcal of oatmeal would be challenging, to say the least. So you would want to balance it out anyways, with extra protien and fat and perhaps denser carbs, and whatever vitamins and minerals it lacks. Not that many, but B12 comes to mind, and vitamin C. I'll see if I can put together a hiking diet made up mostly of oats and see what I come up with.
WingedMonkey
11-10-2011, 09:38
Fyi in my gallery you would see a 255 pound hiker - in the last two months I am now 238 today and I intend to keep going.
Wife hide the key to the beer tap?
:banana
Wise Old Owl
11-10-2011, 12:10
Yea something like that - there's a lock on the Ice Cream in the freezer - So I go over to another hiking freinds and he's scarfing down huge qtys of Wings and French Fries......"Ya want some?" he said... I almost died..... No I can't touch this.
Wise Old Owl
11-13-2011, 14:30
So I went into Acme in between customers on my route on Friday I had 15 minutes to kill - Started at the smoked meats - Brine, salted water added all over the place. Went over to the chicken and what? Chicken breast is full of brine too now. So I called the guy out of the back and asked because I understand Turkey and Ham is loaded - check the sodium levels - but the chicken thing was new to me...he said I have to look for the natural labels at $1 per pound more.
They even push this as a good thing..
Acme Fresh Market brand turkey - Pumped with the industry standard 8% chicken broth!
Wise Old Owl
11-25-2011, 11:29
a high fat start with more citrus and lower sodium works for millions of people sedentary or hiking. I am not going to take the time to modify this for hiking - but if you read this scanned page very carefully and do exactly what it says for the next two weeks men can expect a 10-15 lbs loss... Then nothing.- You will stop loosing weight for several weeks or put it back on again with bad habits. This page cannot be repeated for several months and is the first step in a major program to jump start folks. Meaning its a one and done - I really got into this more than 13 years ago and it really works.
That Amish thread where they walk huge daily distances and eat a high fat low carb diet with lots of vegetables and have less than 2 percent obesity got me back on board this week -Thanksgiving and all.
14464
bamboo bob
11-25-2011, 11:48
Man, I like to hike. I would never ruin it by following all these "sensible eating rules" you worry about. I lose weight when I hike and I eat whatever I enjoy. I'll die when my number is up. Too many people think they'll live for ever if they just eat "right".
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Misinformation
Wise Old Owl
11-26-2011, 15:12
Man, I like to hike. I would never ruin it by following all these "sensible eating rules" you worry about. I lose weight when I hike and I eat whatever I enjoy. I'll die when my number is up. Too many people think they'll live for ever if they just eat "right".
It's a working program that has stood the test of time to keeping the weight off (compensating for drinking beer - beer my friend is LIQUID bread.) I managed to keep the weight off for 13+ years by following a program of diet and exercise.
IT IS NOT a program of high carb low fat - veggie... that the current nutritionists are pushing.
In fact I have done very well last month and its coming off. - the beer is gone. And One pound went on during Thanksgiving and came right back off in two days... In spite of sitting around with a swollen near sprained knee (no exercise at all)