View Full Version : Tent design -- freestanding, trekking pole support, etc.
Margaret L
10-04-2011, 21:34
So many options to consider with tents! Freestanding models sound easier to set up on rocky terrain, but trekking pole supported tents sound more weight-efficient. Any general thoughts of the relative virtues of each?
I'm looking at BA (Seedhouse or Fly creek), Six Moons (Skyscape or Lunar solo), or Lightheart (Solo, maybe duo). I'm a small woman, 5' 2" and not brawny, so weight is a big consideration. But I'm also sort of a tent hermit, so I really do want a full tent, not just a tarp or bivy.
XCskiNYC
10-04-2011, 22:42
The freestanding feature isn't as much of an advantage as it might seem. Many freestanding tents still need stakes to hold out their vestibules. There are workarounds that will let you pitch a staked tent on a tent platform, shelter floor, or other surface that won't allow for regular staking.
Tents using hiking poles are a good weight saver if you will be carrying hiking poles anyway. But there are plenty of good tents that don't use trekking poles. Most makers of tents designed to work with hiking poles as support also sell dedicated poles to use with their tents.
Take a look at the Tarptents such as the Moment or Rainbow. They are nice designs. Both have an integral arch pole. The Moment weighs 30 ounces, the Rainbow 34. It's possible to make the Moment freestanding but this requires adding an optional 7-oz pole and most long-distance hikers would probably forego this. The Rainbow can be set up as freestanding (except for the vestibule) with hiking poles. The Rainbow is substantially roomier but the Moment sets up and comes down faster. If considering a Tarptent though read the threads here on these tents. They use a silnylon that in cases of wind-driven rain can allow misting into the tent. The SMD Lunar Solo uses a more water resistant silnylon (higher hydrostatic head).
Here's a blog post that gives details on many popular hiking shelter options:
http://www.backpackingnorth.com/2011/08/ultralight-makeover-redux-pt-3-ditch.html
Mr Breeze
10-04-2011, 23:24
If you are looking at Lightheart gear, the solo would be more than big enough for you. I am 6'0" tall and have a solo. There is plenty of room for me to stretch out with room left over without touching either end. There is also plenty of room put my pack inside, or just extra clothes. I don't think you would need the duo.
Lunar solo survived the AT 11'...great tent! However, it'll take a dozen set-UPS to get the hang of it. Bell, I'm still learning after 2,000 miles. If ur weight concious, and u will be. This may be the tent for u. The tent won't get u to Maine tho. Start stretching those legs.
And ps....a couple weeks on the trail and u won't be a hermit! Wait till u get the taste of the trail community! War damn!
I have a Lightheart solo. I haven't found a good way to set it up on a platform. The diamond shape makes for a rather long space requirement.
I never thought of that when I bought it.
Rocketman
10-05-2011, 09:02
If you do bicycle camping as well, the use of hiking poles as tent poles becomes a bit more troublesome. In those conditions, you might want to consider purchase of the specific tent poles made for the UL tent, if they are available.
The Lightheart Solo is a pretty nice tent.
You might want to make "Magic Marker" marks on the tent poles when you find the insertion length that works easiest for you. The setup involves a preliminary stakeout, and then you move into the tent to insert the poles into the tent to give it a frame. The poles, at that point, must be shorter than the final extended length or else you can't get them properly inserted. Then they are extended to make the tent taut.
That is the tricky part of setup that takes a little learning. Be sure that the stakes at both ends are secure in the ground, as if they slip out while you are trying to set up the tent, you are just enveloped in fabric and not much seems to work right for you at that point.
I put put in the side stakes that extend the fly fully taut. Then, if it looks like a good possibility of a rainless night, I fold the fly over the top, leaving the mesh fully exposed (leaving the stakes in the ground). If it does rain, then you can quickly hook the fly to the pre-planted stakes in a few seconds and the tent is pretty taut.
garlic08
10-05-2011, 12:22
Freestanding tents with hoop poles not only weigh more, they also have another means of failure. Though I've only had one hoop break, and one get lost, that was enough to convince me that they weren't my favorite means of support for thru hiking. It's easy enough to replace a broken trekking pole with a line up to a tree or a sturdy stick.
My Tarptent Contrail has short built-in struts in the rear and uses only one trekking pole for the front. I think this design with no hoop poles is excellent.
Ditto the comment above that freestanding tents must be staked anyway. I once saw a freestanding tent caught high in a tree below a scenic cliff in Colorado, unreachable and abandoned.
Chaco Taco
10-05-2011, 19:06
Double Rainbow is a good choice for the freestanding features it has on it. I have figured out how to set it up on a platform with ease as well. The only thing is that you need plenty of space to stake out the doors on the platform. Get small stakes like the msr darts instead of teh ones they send you to carry for the platforms. The others ones are way to big
I have a tarptent, use one hiking pole to pitch which I like vs poles. Lightweigt is better!
HyperliteMountainGear and Lightheart tents.................cuben fiber is looking pretty nice albeit expensive!!
Just completed a nice section hike on the AT with a cuben fiber pack, loved it, super comfortable, nothing got damp inside. New fabrics, new "investments"
Margaret L
10-05-2011, 20:59
I once saw a freestanding tent caught high in a tree below a scenic cliff in Colorado, unreachable and abandoned.
Well, let's hope it was abandoned BEFORE it was caught in the tree! :eek:
The pros/cons are as you said: nothing beats a single wall trekking-pole tent or tarp for weight savings, but freestanding tents are more versatile in terms of where you can set them up. Non-freestanding tents require good dirt for stakes and most of them have fairly large footprints, making pitching them in tight spaces a bit tricky. Here's my reasoning: most of the time the cons of a trekking-pole tent won't be issues, but the weight savings are present EVERY DAY. Of course, a lot depends on where you're planning on hiking. I loved using my Lunar Solo on the AT and it's great here in CO, but if I ever hike back home in West TX getting a good pitch is much trickier since the ground is so hard.
The pros/cons are as you said: nothing beats a single wall trekking-pole tent or tarp for weight savings, but freestanding tents are more versatile in terms of where you can set them up. Non-freestanding tents require good dirt for stakes and most of them have fairly large footprints, making pitching them in tight spaces a bit tricky. Here's my reasoning: most of the time the cons of a trekking-pole tent won't be issues, but the weight savings are present EVERY DAY. Of course, a lot depends on where you're planning on hiking. I loved using my Lunar Solo on the AT and it's great here in CO, but if I ever hike back home in West TX getting a good pitch is much trickier since the ground is so hard.
stranger
10-06-2011, 02:38
I know everyone is loving the ultralight 'tarptent' designs these days but I do wonder if there are some other drawbacks that get overlooked. For one, using trekking poles for tent poles can be annoying at times, especially when your poles are soaking wet and muddy in places. Second, most ultralight light tents use naked fabric, meaning it has no additional coating on it to keep the fabric waterproof. So often what ends up happening is that you have a very water resistant tent (misting for instance), also water can be 'pushed' through the floor because the material is not waterpoof, but very water resistant. Finally, many of those tents require a large footprint, and many stakes, and sometimes many guys, plus the ground sheet for extra water protection, etc...So you do end up having a lighter tent - yes that's correct. But, you also seem to have a more 'annoying' tent in many ways, alot needs to be factored into site seletion, wind direction, etc...
So by having a more traditional tent, say like a Big Agnes Fly Creek or Copper Spur, you have the additional coatings so water can't be pushed through the floor, it's factory seam sealed, much smaller footprint, fewer stakes needed conditions permitting, etc...My Copper Spur comes in at 43 ounces, it only needs 2 stakes to function and I could use non if I had to (rocks instead). Now I am considering a Lightheart, especially with their high water 'resistant' ratings (3500+), but I'm having a hard time being convinced. I'm not overly concered with weight, my pack never weighs all that much anyhow, I'm just struggling to see a reason why a Lightheart Solo would provide benefit over a Copper Spur, other than a small amount of weight.
Any thought appreciated!
Rocketman
10-06-2011, 09:20
Second, most ultralight light tents use naked fabric, meaning it has no additional coating on it to keep the fabric waterproof.
The Silnylon material does not have "naked" fabric. The nylon fabric is impregnated with silicone.
The classic polyurethane coating is a layer applied to usually one side of the naked nylon fabric.
When you get to be 70 years old and still backpacking, you will KNOW how important the lightweight nature of the tent is, because it is lightweight 365 days of the year.
There are some 60 year olds who may well feel the same way. And a few in teir 50's.
Not everyone is young and strong. If you are young enough, you are likely will "struggle to see a reason why a Lightheart Solo would provide benefit ........... a small amount of weight."
For young strong backpackers, the "small amount of weight" is of little difference.
The Silnylon material does not have "naked" fabric. The nylon fabric is impregnated with silicone.
The classic polyurethane coating is a layer applied to usually one side of the naked nylon fabric.
When you get to be 70 years old and still backpacking, you will KNOW how important the lightweight nature of the tent is, because it is lightweight 365 days of the year.
There are some 60 year olds who may well feel the same way. And a few in teir 50's.
Not everyone is young and strong. If you are young enough, you are likely will "struggle to see a reason why a Lightheart Solo would provide benefit ........... a small amount of weight."
For young strong backpackers, the "small amount of weight" is of little difference.
You might call me "young and strong", and I think the weight savings makes a huge difference, especially on a long hike. I've had to ride out some pretty nasty storms in my Lunar Solo and have never noticed the "misting" that some people talk about. As for the floor, many UL tentmakers offer a 70-denier floor (as opposed to 30-denier), making the whole "pushing water through the floor" thing a non-issue.
Also, I've never considered setting up my Lunar Solo a hassle. Quite to the contrary, I usually have my tent sent up faster than everyone with traditional double-wall tents since they have to set up (sometimes) multiple poles, the main body AND the rain fly.
stranger
10-07-2011, 00:58
What i meant was that other than the impregnated silicone...there is no additional coating on most cottage companies fabric. Unlike say Big Agnes, who will add the polyurethane to the material so the can factory seam tape it. I understand the importance of a light tent, however my point was that there are still drawbacks, including site selection, misting, guys, large footprint, etc...So at the end of a long day, those are drawbacks as you can't just camp anywhere. I think you missed my point - it's not just about weight, if it was just about weight, then of course the Lightheart is a smarter choice.
The great weight debate, to me lighter is better and less is better. The lighter my pack and the less "stuff" that I take the more I seem to be enoying this hobby. I have a Big Agnes SL1 tent, it is bulletproof, but heavy. Tarptent is 34 ounces, great tent.
I am considering a cuben fiber tent, 20-24 oz and packing down smaller seems appealing.
mad4scrapping
10-07-2011, 21:22
I went through several tents, including a tarptent and the BA seedhouse, before settling on the Lightheart Solo. I love it. Even though it does have a large footprint, it is so roomy and airy feeling inside. It's easy to set up too. I just love it.
stranger
10-08-2011, 01:10
The great weight debate, to me lighter is better and less is better. The lighter my pack and the less "stuff" that I take the more I seem to be enoying this hobby. I have a Big Agnes SL1 tent, it is bulletproof, but heavy. Tarptent is 34 ounces, great tent.
I am considering a cuben fiber tent, 20-24 oz and packing down smaller seems appealing.
I agree that lighter is better...and dry gear is lighter than wet gear. So carrying a shelter that potentially allows water to pass through it (because it's a lighter, less waterproof material) seems somewhat counter productive in some ways. Granted, this is an unlikely scenario - but I've had a few of those nights, and it's good to know water isn't coming through your floor. But that's just me.
I would love to see these 'ultralight' cottage companies use a rock solid floor, or atleast have it as an option. I know SMD offers an ultralight floor, but how about a silnylon floor option with a poly coating, higher waterproof ratings, etc...
"I would love to see these 'ultralight' cottage companies use a rock solid floor,"
The peculiar part about that is that there are many that succesfully use shelters with no floor or even one with a mesh/net floor...
As for the weight, again I would like for folk to weigh their tent after a night of rain. That is, give it a shake and then pack it up "wet".
I have done that with several tents and I can confidently tell you that silnylon (wet) is lighter than most...
(the weight gain is less in percentage)
BTW, I have never had water coming through any of my floors...
Franco
garlic08
10-08-2011, 19:29
...BTW, I have never had water coming through any of my floors...
Franco
I did on one trip, but it was part of a learning curve. I learned how to select a site properly after that. I also realized that with a silnylon floor, or no floor at all, you trade weight for skill and experience. That probably holds true for many things in life.
True that.
Following having seen a picture of a particularly badly set up Contrail I decided to take that over my other shelters for my last trip with heavy rain on the forecast.
I even shot a few short clips just to show how it works if you know how.
If you look at the first still image all of the ground around the place, except for pretty much the area where we set up, was at least partially flooded the next morning and remained so for that day and following night.
So we traded camping next to the river for some extra safety margin.
http://www.youtube.com/user/francodarioli?feature=mhee#p/a/u/1/31PNJTJwdGg
We camped a few km from a very popular site. Several families were camped there in spite of the rain however the next day they were all gone.
But I can see that many would be more comfortable with a beefier set up just as I am more comfortable using the Contrail over an open tarp/bivy/groundsheet combo.
BTW, for the ones that find the Contrail hard to set up :
http://www.youtube.com/user/francodarioli?feature=mhee#p/a/u/0/oY6W62N1cPo
Franco
I've never had water come into a tent through the fabric. Usually what is happening is that condensation has formed and the raindrops on the outside knock the condensation on the inside onto your face. I've also never had moisture seep in through the floor. I usually use a polycro groundsheet, which is basically a thin piece of plastic. I use that as much to just keep the tent clean as for moisture. Remember, the tent itself is covering the ground beneath your tent, keeping that little patch of earth drier than the rest being rained on. If you've found yourself in a puddle, you picked a bad campsite. You can also minimize the amount of rain falling on your tent by pitching your tent under tree cover. This can sometimes result in more rain, though, as mist will collect in the trees and fall on the tent when out in the open the mist might not do anything. So awareness of your environment helps a lot.
An extra coating of anything isn't going to keep you drier. You're still going to get the condensation problem. The only thing that really works well is the double-wall construction. So if you are going to be someplace with a lot of rain, it might be worth carrying a double-wall tent. I believe the Lightheart tents offer a version that is double-walled -- a mostly mesh inner tent with a rain fly of sorts.
As far as the free-standing vs stakes and poles. I thought at first that this would be an issue. One thing I really like about the free-standing tents is how you can pick them up and shake all the dirt out. So that's turned out to be the only thing I actually miss. As far as being able to find adequate campsites (on the PCT and in my own backcountry in So Cal) I have had absolutely no difficulties at all finding sites.
I know they are pricy but the hilleberg tents are the best that are out there. YOU DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR WITH A HILLEBERG TENT. I have the RAJD single wall two person two door and only two pounds. I use this up until its time for a winter tent. It has great head room and room for all my gear inside.It does not have a vestibule thou. It uses your hiking poles for setup. I would really look into the hilleberg tents if you can afford one. look on you tube at some of the tents that you are interested in buying. This is a great way of deciding what you really want in a tent.
I know they are pricy but the hilleberg tents are the best that are out there
The BEST tent is the one that you (as in "one") likes and if it works for you.
I have yet to see a product that is best for everybody .
The point here is that if you like a shelter it is much more likly to work for you than one that works for somebody else but you don't like in the first place.
For example (no offence...) but it is pretty obvious to me why this guy has chosen (and will enjoy using) this tent (over several somewhat similar shelters) :
14056
Franco
For example (no offence...) but it is pretty obvious to me why this guy has chosen (and will enjoy using) this tent (over several somewhat similar shelters) :
14056
Franco
lol, that's me!
pretty obvious you say. hmmm sadly not!
It was actually just a funny coincidence. I searched for my tent for some time.
I wouldn't get the advantage of weight saving of a trekking pole because I don't trek much, and will not have a trekking pole.
That tent (nemo obi 1p) is for a backpacking trip. I just fell in love with the nemo tent, it just ticked all the right boxes for me, including emotion!
easy to set up, fairly light, strong well built, option to go sans fly, goos sized vestibule, just enough room to put camera bag inside for security (maybe not at the feet like in the photo as that makes your feet touch the roof)
Yes I did like the look of it but it didn't occur to me that it'd match my sleeping bag (which was given to me a while back).
I was actually planning on buying the WM summerlite sleeping bag for this combo, so a bright red colour, but found it far too cramped so am sitcking to my old and heavier one.
Oh and what sealed the deal for me was when i found this tent for 40% off at campsaver ;) (and with a free footprint!)
To put it another way...
You don't dislike that colour.
Colours and smells work at a subliminal level, some people are more conscious about them than others.
you probably know that big money is spent trying to work out how to influence us with them.
Many for example are conscious of the fake smells in the shopping malls yet they still work and makes us buy.
My point was really about the fact that if one does not like the look of a shelter (even just the colour...) that shelter could be the best for many but it will not be for that one.
So in your case for example if ,say, you don't like yellow and the Obi was made in yellow you would have not given it a second glance.
Again I know that many disagree but that is how we buy. We do it emotionally not logically, however we try to logically justify our emotional purchases.
(I do to BTW. Part of my decision to use the Summerlite with clothing in winter over the Ultralite is the fact that I like that red more than the blue , not that I thought of that during the decision making process)
As an aside, since we had this discussion about colours here at WB several times, the Australian Government commissioned a study on the colour that would most likely put people off buying a packet of cigarettes.That colour is olive-brown.
Franco
So many options to consider with tents! Freestanding models sound easier to set up on rocky terrain, but trekking pole supported tents sound more weight-efficient. Any general thoughts of the relative virtues of each?
I'm looking at BA (Seedhouse or Fly creek), Six Moons (Skyscape or Lunar solo), or Lightheart (Solo, maybe duo). I'm a small woman, 5' 2" and not brawny, so weight is a big consideration. But I'm also sort of a tent hermit, so I really do want a full tent, not just a tarp or bivy.Along with those I would also consider an MSR Hubba, which has good reviews:http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/tents/experience-series/hubba/product
stranger
10-10-2011, 22:27
"I would love to see these 'ultralight' cottage companies use a rock solid floor,"
The peculiar part about that is that there are many that succesfully use shelters with no floor or even one with a mesh/net floor...
As for the weight, again I would like for folk to weigh their tent after a night of rain. That is, give it a shake and then pack it up "wet".
I have done that with several tents and I can confidently tell you that silnylon (wet) is lighter than most...
(the weight gain is less in percentage)
BTW, I have never had water coming through any of my floors...
Franco
Water came through my Cloudburst floor in 2006 in Abel Tasman National Park in New Zealand. If happened again a year or so later in another area. Offering (not adding) a more durable and waterproof floor would only be a good thing. I would rather have a 28ounce tarptent with a better floor than the 23 ounce Cloudburst I gave away.
stranger
10-10-2011, 22:35
I do accept site selection is a skill that is developed over time, and I like most people could be better at it....however in some areas you cannot always choose a good site. Anyone who has hiked extensively in places like New Zealand will learn this very quickly. Kinda hard to select a good draining campsite when trees are 20 inches apart as far as the eye can see.
ChinMusic
10-10-2011, 22:51
I like free-standing tents but don't like the extra weight. I just took a LightHeart Solo to the Grand Canyon. Anyone that has gone there knows how freaking hard and shallow the "dirt" is in the designated sites. I didn't.
I got pretty good at staking out "dead-man" style, by using sticks and rocks. To make it worse I brought mostly Ti stakes. Fortunately I had two Groundhogs for the key points. Double-fortunatly I didn't experience significant wind.