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Sailing_Faith
10-12-2011, 11:41
In small boat cruising, I have a theory that more fear equates to more gear.

Basically, the more things you imagine going wrong or causing discomfort... the more stuff you will pack to prepare for it.

I suspect this will also apply to hiking... I would LOVE to learn from others experience what some of these things may be.

=> What have you carried that you have decided was not necessary?

Spirit Walker
10-12-2011, 11:51
I always carry too much food. I hate being hungry, and though I know I would survive just fine missing a meal or three, I make sure I never do. I usually end up with at least one extra dinner at the end of each section - sometimes more. Snacks and lunch usually get eaten, since it's easy enough to just enjoy more cookies when available, but I've carried pasta packages for weeks without eating them.

4eyedbuzzard
10-12-2011, 11:54
Big first aid kits are not necessary. You want to be able to handle minor stuff and survive big stuff - that usually mean stopping bleeding. You need any special meds (such as epipen for allergic bee reactions), a few bandaids for small cuts, a small piece of gauze, duct tape, be able to treat a blister (needle and moleskin and/or duct tape), have a little neosporin or similar for a cut, have tweezers for tick removal, perhaps a couple of Immodium for diarrhea, Benadryl for an allergic reaction, and in the worst case stop major bleeding (close lacerated wound with duct tape, make duct tape butterflies, etc). You can't keep sterile in the woods and you can't realistically treat any major trauma. In the event of an emergency like this you want to stop bleeding and get the hell off the trail ASAP to proper medical care. There will invariably be other hikers around and S&R to help.

max patch
10-12-2011, 11:57
water bag...

Blissful
10-12-2011, 12:00
My huge 7 lb Lowes backpack. Downsized my gear, downsized the pack.

4eyedbuzzard
10-12-2011, 12:12
water bag...One of the two drybag stuff sacks I carry (one for clothes, one for food) is one of those WM dry bags that usually has my extra/unworn clothing in it. It doubles as a water carrier if needed to haul water in camp. It'll hold about a gallon or so without spilling.

Pedaling Fool
10-12-2011, 12:17
Actually in the hiking community it's, More Gear = More Fear. People are so fearful of the weight of their gear that they do idiotic things like cut the edges off maps (if they even carry them) or remove sections of their toothbrush, spend hundreads of dollars to reduce gear weight by just a few ounces... All because of the fear of gear weight.

max patch
10-12-2011, 12:28
One of the two drybag stuff sacks I carry (one for clothes, one for food) is one of those WM dry bags that usually has my extra/unworn clothing in it. It doubles as a water carrier if needed to haul water in camp. It'll hold about a gallon or so without spilling.

Thats a good idea.

Pedaling Fool
10-12-2011, 12:31
I always carry too much food. I hate being hungry, and though I know I would survive just fine missing a meal or three, I make sure I never do. I usually end up with at least one extra dinner at the end of each section - sometimes more. Snacks and lunch usually get eaten, since it's easy enough to just enjoy more cookies when available, but I've carried pasta packages for weeks without eating them.
This is absolutely true in most cases. Most don't experience an increase in food intake until after about 2-4 weeks into a hike; and actually most will see a decrease in food consumption during the beginning phase of a hike.

DavidNH
10-12-2011, 12:34
wow a backpack that weighs 7 pounds empty. I'm gonna guess it holds 6000+ cc of space? man that's a lot of gear in can hold. Amount of gear expands to fill available space. Not sure if that's a law of nature but it might as well be!

Hiking Man
10-12-2011, 12:47
I carry way to much water sometimes around 3L, thinking that the next water sorce is going to be dry. Then i end up passing three or four water sorces before i have to fill up again.

-SEEKER-
10-12-2011, 12:54
WATER But I've never regretted it.

Odd Man Out
10-12-2011, 13:29
I hope this doesn't start yet another lengthy and necessary discussion, but they are mentioned often here:
Hand gun and bear spay -

4eyedbuzzard
10-12-2011, 14:15
I hope this doesn't start yet another lengthy and necessary discussion, but they are mentioned often here:
Hand gun and bear spay -Well, if you do carry either of those, your ultimate intent should still be the same as your first aid kit - dead weight that you plan NOT to have to use unless necessary. The possibility of needing either is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone faces both common, and unique risks, and everyone assesses the level of those risks, and the security carrying either defensive measure provides, differently.

But the subject horse is polarizing and has been beaten into the ground to the point it just doesn't lead to either informative or intelligent discussion anymore.

Spokes
10-12-2011, 14:19
A Katadyn water filter (use Aqua Mira), 550 paracord (use 2mm cord), any knife larger than a Victorinox Classic (nuff said), a cat trowel (use your heel), any stove that burns coleman fuel (use an alchy stove), and a camp pillow (use your clothes bag).

Give a little bit and I'll think of some more........

garlic08
10-12-2011, 14:43
Nice first post, and very perceptive. I say it this way: "You pack your fears". Pack weights for a given section of the AT can vary from less than 10 pounds to over 50 pounds. You tell me which hiker is more at home in the woods.

4eyedbuzzard
10-12-2011, 14:58
Nice first post, and very perceptive. I say it this way: "You pack your fears". Pack weights for a given section of the AT can vary from less than 10 pounds to over 50 pounds. You tell me which hiker is more at home in the woods.I think weight / gear also can have a lot to do with intent, such as desire to hike vs. camp, duration between resupply, remoteness of trip, etc. For example, I know from his posts here that Tipi Walter carries a LOT more gear than most hikers, but he also is arguably probably more at home (and skilled) in the woods than most hikers. Gear weight can be influenced by so many factors, including price. Getting down to 10 pounds base weight isn't usually cheap.

SawnieRobertson
10-12-2011, 14:58
Well, if you do carry either of those, your ultimate intent should still be the same as your first aid kit - dead weight that you plan NOT to have to use unless necessary. The possibility of needing either is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone faces both common, and unique risks, and everyone assesses the level of those risks, and the security carrying either defensive measure provides, differently.

But the subject horse is polarizing and has been beaten into the ground to the point it just doesn't lead to either informative or intelligent discussion anymore.

4-Eyed Buzzard, you have so much knowledge and have such a way of passing it along that I hope you will sometime offer a workshop for us forever-wannabees at one of the get togethers.--Kinnickinic

SawnieRobertson
10-12-2011, 15:06
"More gear=more fear" is really so true. I absolutely never want to do without water, so I fill everything I've got at the beginning of each day. (You should see me stagger with it.) OTOH, I have two filters sitting in boxes upstairs where I have put them after sending them home way before I got there.--Kinnickinic

4eyedbuzzard
10-12-2011, 15:10
4-Eyed Buzzard, you have so much knowledge and have such a way of passing it along that I hope you will sometime offer a workshop for us forever-wannabees at one of the get togethers.--KinnickinicI'm a better writer than I am a hiker or woodsman though Sawnie. I'm just another weekend warrior (albeit for some 40 years) when it comes to hiking.

lush242000
10-12-2011, 15:32
"more gear = more fear" I have to disagree with this statement in this sense. I often take luxury items that people would call crazy....a hard back book, a gps, a cotten shirt and underwear. I carry these because I like them. It amazes me how often people are so ready to hand out advice and try to tell me how light their gear is and what I don't need. It's my back and my pack. If you don't want it, don't carry it, but trying to tell someone else that they shouldn't carry something is just being a jerk.

just my thoughts. i carry what I like.

Now that being said I have learned over the years that I do not need to carry the entire trail guide if I am out for a weekend or a week. I never eat all the food I carry. I never use all the clothes I carry. I always carry too much water. Yet, I'm still hiking after 20 years and still having fun.

TyTy
10-12-2011, 16:52
"more gear = more fear" I have to disagree with this statement in this sense. I often take luxury items that people would call crazy....a hard back book, a gps, a cotten shirt and underwear. I carry these because I like them. It amazes me how often people are so ready to hand out advice and try to tell me how light their gear is and what I don't need. It's my back and my pack. If you don't want it, don't carry it, but trying to tell someone else that they shouldn't carry something is just being a jerk.

just my thoughts. i carry what I like.

Now that being said I have learned over the years that I do not need to carry the entire trail guide if I am out for a weekend or a week. I never eat all the food I carry. I never use all the clothes I carry. I always carry too much water. Yet, I'm still hiking after 20 years and still having fun.

I think the point the OP is making is some of these items we carry correlate with fears or anxieties. A GPS would correlate with anxiety/fear of getting lost, a hard back book would be anxiety/fear of being bored, cotton clothes would be fear of being uncomfortable in wet clothes. There is a difference between fear/anxiety and preference. You may truly have zero fear of getting lost and just like to tinker with a GPS, you probably just like to have clean, dry comfortable clothes to change into, and like to read a book. Basically these 'extras' can be motivated by preference or fear/anxiety.

I think if you (or anyone) is hiking, backpacking and having fun...that's all that matters so you are defiantly doing it right, as is the guy carrying 5 lbs as long as he is having fun.

Live_for_hiking
10-12-2011, 18:05
wow a backpack that weighs 7 pounds empty. I'm gonna guess it holds 6000+ cc of space? man that's a lot of gear in can hold. Amount of gear expands to fill available space. Not sure if that's a law of nature but it might as well be!

Hehe. That Lowe Alpine backpack was VERY popular in the late 90's. I had one. I down-sized to my 3300 cubic inch Dana Design Bomb pack. It was a feathery 4 lbs 14 oz ...... Heck I still use it because it is super comfortable.

Gear has come a long ways in 10-15 years. I intend on making a thru hike during my next life transition ... but I think I'll wait to see how light things become. My old gear still works. Because I no longer fear the backpacking unknown, it will be a simple swap to ultra light alternatives.

But to answer the Gear = Fear discussion. I think the OP is right. When I first started backpacking extensively, I brought too much food, water, clothes, and convenience. The unknown had me preparing for lots of things. Over time, it slowly worked its way down to be as light/economical as possible. The learning curve kicked in and backpacking wasn't an unknown. The AT seems to do the same thing. People often adjust buy, mail, etc gear to meet their hiking needs. I have yet to hear a story where somebody gained pack weight over time (unless it was going from summer to winter trekking). We all get more efficient as we go.

lemon b
10-12-2011, 18:11
At this stage of life the knees control the weight load, and to a lessor degree the topo map. When I was younger alot was about challenge and to a certain degree that is still true. However fun is now more important. No longer interested in how little food I need or how little water or how far I can go and for how long without sleep. Now it is about staying warm and the experience. Basicly whay I can see and feel. That said when I was 25 went off with 50 lbs and sometime still got, cold, wet, and hungry. At the high side of 50 go off at 30 am very comfortable but can not go nearly as far. Got nothing to do with fear cause fear isn't fun. Never was.

garlic08
10-12-2011, 20:01
I think weight / gear also can have a lot to do with intent, such as desire to hike vs. camp, duration between resupply, remoteness of trip, etc. For example, I know from his posts here that Tipi Walter carries a LOT more gear than most hikers, but he also is arguably probably more at home (and skilled) in the woods than most hikers. Gear weight can be influenced by so many factors, including price. Getting down to 10 pounds base weight isn't usually cheap.

Good point, and I agree. And I'm glad you added the word "usually" to your last sentence (which I should have done in my statement), because my light load is fairly cheap--$80 pack, $200 shelter, $160 (half-price sale) sleeping bag, $20 pad. But I agree that's an exception. Sweeping generalizations are seldom universally true anyway.

Colter
10-12-2011, 21:05
Nice first post, and very perceptive. I say it this way: "You pack your fears". Pack weights for a given section of the AT can vary from less than 10 pounds to over 50 pounds. You tell me which hiker is more at home in the woods.

As usual garlic is right, as is the OP.

rpenczek
10-13-2011, 11:04
Having delt with lots of Boy Scouts learning to backpack (while being safe and comfortable) and their Mothers (and fathers) who are full of fear, I agree that fear = more gear. You would be amazed at what mom and dad think lil-Jonny needs for backpacking. Even some of my older more experienced boys fall back into this trap after we have not backpacked for a while. They learn to "Be Prepared" in Scouting but what takes time to teach/learn is to Be Prepared for what is likely to happen, not for everything (even remote items) that can happen (there is a difference).

When we do weekend workups for a long trip, I don't say much about their gear, I provide a suggested gear list and then let them have at it. It only takes 5 or 10 miles for them to realize that they really don't need the two extra pair of jeans, a camp chair or a two liter bottle of Mt. Dew (yes, I have had boys bring along Mt. Dew). I have learned that experience/time teaches them to become confident (not fearful) in their gear, which lets them know exactly what they do and do not need to carry to be safe and comfortable in the woods. Sometimes the boys wonder way we need to do all the workup trips, afterall, they are in good shape and can handle the miles. This is true, but the workups are not about the physical, they are about the mental and let them build confidence in their gear.

For me personally, I have shed items carried out of fear such as a pack cover (I use to use a pack cover AND line my pack with a trash bag); third pair of socks, third pair of underwear, "extra" food, moleskin (duct-tape workes better) and gone from a double wall tent to a single wall tent.

PapaGarrettP
10-13-2011, 13:04
Over the years, I have sloughed off the following:
-Extra flashlight
-Extra knife
-large commercial first aid kit (now I carry the minimum items mentioned already, plus a small QuikClot pack for major bleeding, the only acute injury that needs to be treated NOW)
-3rd pair of socks
-Nalgene bottles (use platypus and a gator bottle)

I do carry 2 tee shirts because I sweat a lot and like to put on a dry underlayer every night.

Sailing_Faith
02-01-2012, 11:18
It is interesting,

I am packing for two trips right now. I plan to do some hiking later in the month, and I have a sailboat delivery (sailing from the Bahamas to Pureto Rico)....

... much of the same gear makes the 'cut'. Those favorite things that eliminate misery, certain comfort items (small and light) and things I know from experience that I am likely to need.

In another thread, the orange trowel is being discussed... now few could be charged with 'fearing' their poop... BUT the idea holds. What is an item REALLY for? In that case, I suspect it is to assuage guilt over being precised to be a 'bad LNT citizen'.

I wonder what other 'peer pressure' type items find their ways into our packs?

Lone Wolf
02-01-2012, 11:22
more gear = more fear? nope. not at all

Sailing_Faith
02-01-2012, 11:30
more gear = more fear? nope. not at all

You certainly know better then I, but might fear drive things like;

Bear spray on the AT?
Bear canisters on the AT?
Bowie knives?

How about very large (prepackaged) first aid kits?

Lot's of cold weather gear?

Other threads list items discarded along the trail... seems to me that some of this stuff was packed in the first place because people were 'afraid' of the implication of being without it.

My point is to question the fears, to see if the gear is appropriate.... seems like much more knowledgeable folks use a similar approach. The idea works well with small boats, and investment strategies... seems to me (and apparently to some others in this thread) to others also.

Slo-go'en
02-01-2012, 12:23
I would say it is not fear which casues people to pack too much stuff, but inexperiance.

Until you learn what you really need, you will likley start off with too much stuff. Or maybe worse, not enough stuff or the wrong stuff. Those who pack weapons may do so out of fear. I know they scare me.

max patch
02-01-2012, 13:18
more gear = more fear? nope. not at all

I agree. Its a BS expression that someone made up that gets repeated in forums.

msupple
02-01-2012, 13:58
Let's see...
Ditching filter for AquaMira
Ditching extra clothes
Ditching ALL extra batteries (usually in bed by dark anyway)
Reducing Duck Tape to about 4'
Ditching my beloved Geigerrig for two Gaiterade bottles
Ditching liquid fuel and alky stove for Emberlit wood burner. (wife will carry spare alky stove)
Much much smaller knife (used to bring a spare)
Ditching big headlamp for a much smaller one. (no extra batteries) :)
Try to evaluate water needs/resupply points more carefully in the AM
Try to be more presice with my food needs
Ditched my Ahnu trail runners for much lighter Inov-8 TerRocs

Those are some of the things I learned from our long section hike last year. We are pre-packing for our Springer to Harpers Ferry this April and I am already liking the weight of my pack much better.

Rain Man
02-01-2012, 14:02
I would say it is not fear which casues people to pack too much stuff, but inexperiance.

Until you learn what you really need, you will likley start off with too much stuff. Or maybe worse, not enough stuff or the wrong stuff. Those who pack weapons may do so out of fear. I know they scare me.

I agree and agree with the adage "fear = gear." Inexperience is another good way to look at it. If experience teaches you that you don't use something every day, then why are you carrying it (if not "fear")?

Use real experience to reduce fear and gear.

Rain:sunMan

.

atmilkman
02-01-2012, 23:01
I agree. Its a BS expression that someone made up that gets repeated in forums.
I agree also.
more gear = more fear
rates right up there with less is more or
are you hiking or camping? duh!
I'm backpacking. Which by definition means I'm doing both.

Papa D
02-02-2012, 00:23
Nice first post, and very perceptive. I say it this way: "You pack your fears". Pack weights for a given section of the AT can vary from less than 10 pounds to over 50 pounds. You tell me which hiker is more at home in the woods.

yes - I totally agree with this - to a point - look at the "critique my gear list posts" and you'll see a bunch of scared items - whistles, compasses for the AT, huge first aid rigs. But, on the flip side of this, the dude with the 10 pound pack caught in a sleet storm might go from fearless woodsman to frightened fool in no time flat. Balance is still a consideration.

HT1
02-02-2012, 07:32
Food I have ran out, and it messed with me
Water See above.
Foot care products try and explain to the boss without showing him your feet that you cannot work because of the blisters you gopt over the weekend.
Three inch knife. no story, I just like to be able to cut sausage in one easy slice, instead of spinning it around

Lemni Skate
02-02-2012, 11:42
Actually there is an entire school of thought in psychology that EVERY DECISION WE MAKE comes down to avoiding some kind of unpleasantness. That can be thought of as trying to quell a fear. The absence of fear is considered a serious mental disorder in this school of thought.

We obey the traffic laws in order to avoid jail, injury, death, chaos created by others. We disobey traffic laws in order to avoid being late, being bored, being thought of as a wimp by our neighbors, or having to think too much about the traffic laws.

I don't think it takes a whole lot of creativity to figure out what it is we are trying to avoid when presented with just about any conscious decision we make.

That being said, it's kind of a cynical to look at it that way. I think of it as trying to be responsible out there. Just think how people on this site react when we hear a story about some unprepared person needing to be rescued because they didn't have some essential item (okay sometimes that item is common sense).

I carry more stuff when my kids hike with me because I FEAR them complaining about not having something they want. Funny thing is, they rarely ever complain about anything when we hike.

warren doyle
02-02-2012, 11:54
I have been saying this for the past 38 years as it applies to long-distance hiking:

"Fear is proportional to weight and profit. More fear = more weight/more profit. Less fear = less weight/less profit."

We have covered this for 22 years at the Appalachian Trail Institute.

Pony
02-02-2012, 13:20
I guess I'm mostly just afraid of being hungry. In summer I carry a tarp, an alcohol stove, a 1 lb 6 oz sleeping bag, my first aid is mostly just ibuprofin and duct tape, and of course toothbrush, paste and hand sanitizer. Then I throw it into my external frame pack along with 20 or more lbs of food, and start walking. I'm one of a few that doesn't have a problem with my pack weight. More gear=more comfort.

chief
02-02-2012, 13:22
I think the OP is mixing up prudence with fear. He probably (if he has any sense) takes a close look at the weather before his sailing excursions. Is that out of fear or is it the prudent thing to do?

"more gear = more fear" is a derogatory expression people use when others do things differently than themselves.

Pony
02-02-2012, 13:29
I think the OP is mixing up prudence with fear. He probably (if he has any sense) takes a close look at the weather before his sailing excursions. Is that out of fear or is it the prudent thing to do?

"more gear = more fear" is a derogatory expression people use when others do things differently than themselves.

Yep. I heard this one a few times, "gee, pony, your pack looks awful heavy, what's that? I'd love some fresh coffee from your coffee press, care if I look at your guidebook while I'm drinking it?"

leaftye
02-02-2012, 13:31
I wouldn't call it fear, I'd call it a lack of experience.

Seatbelt
02-02-2012, 14:02
I wouldn't call it fear, I'd call it a lack of experience.

Same here--sometimes I would call it a "preference". I know that I carry less than I used to(in overall weight as well as total items) but have changed my packing habits to include other items that aren't absolutely a necessity--no fear involved--just my personal prefernce.

garlic08
02-02-2012, 15:54
I have been saying this for the past 38 years as it applies to long-distance hiking:

"Fear is proportional to weight and profit. More fear = more weight/more profit. Less fear = less weight/less profit."

We have covered this for 22 years at the Appalachian Trail Institute.

And I first heard the idea on a Lynne Whelden video, where Warren was featured. I took it to heart and cut my pack weight in half in the first couple of seasons. That was the start of my long distance hiking--I simply could not do it with my "old" pack, due to my own physical limitations. Maybe it's not the most accurate way to say it, but it's catchy and memorable and repeatable, and it works for some of us. I've seen a few "Aha!" moments when I've repeated it to others. (But I've seen more "You're nuts!" reactions, to be fair.)

Tinker
02-02-2012, 17:39
More gear = more comfort in camp.

Less gear (fewer items or the same # of lower weight) = more comfort on your shoulders, hips, knees, and feet while hiking.

Carrying two items that have the same function is fueled either by fear or wisdom - to each his/her own.

One item which performs multiple tasks (especially electronics, think smart phones ;)) may leave you without necessary tools if it should fail (that's why I bring a camera and a phone - though there's one more thing to carry and I have one more thing to keep track of).

leaftye
02-02-2012, 18:13
Carrying two items that have the same function is fueled either by fear or wisdom - to each his/her own.

One item which performs multiple tasks (especially electronics, think smart phones ;)) may leave you without necessary tools if it should fail (that's why I bring a camera and a phone - though there's one more thing to carry and I have one more thing to keep track of).

I suppose if someone wanted to go crazy with equating weight with fear, one could say that you'd carry a camera instead of a cell phone camera because you fear missing a photo opportunity while waiting for your camera to turn on.

I don't go along with that though. As I said before, it's more about experience. If you want to take pictures of wildlife, you know a phone is a poor choice for a camera. I know I don't take pictures. I want to take pictures, but I don't. I used to carry a camera until I eventually accepted that it's a waste since I wasn't using it at all. My experience taught me that a camera was weight I didn't need to carry.

stranger
02-02-2012, 18:53
In small boat cruising, I have a theory that more fear equates to more gear.

Basically, the more things you imagine going wrong or causing discomfort... the more stuff you will pack to prepare for it.

I suspect this will also apply to hiking... I would LOVE to learn from others experience what some of these things may be.

=> What have you carried that you have decided was not necessary?

- Knife
- Rain gear (in some circumstances, most actually - for me)
- Stove
- Water filter
- Journal
- Whole guidebooks (now cut them up)
- Trekking Poles (don't always take em)
- Boots (shoes are fine)

prain4u
02-02-2012, 20:23
[QUOTE=HT1;1247721]Food I have ran out, and it messed with me
Water See above.
Foot care products try and explain to the boss without showing him your feet that you cannot work because of the blisters you got over the weekend.
Three inch knife. no story, I just like to be able to cut sausage in one easy slice, instead of spinning it around[/QUOTE

Your post is a good intro to the point that I was wishing to make: Specifically...I AM NOT CERTAIN THAT MORE FEAR=MORE GEAR.

Sometimes, I think "more gear=more common sense" or "more gear = more comfort in camp" or "more gear = less chance of experiencing a trip-ending problem".

One of my needless things is an "extra" (emergency) set of clothes. (This is often something as simple as an extra base layer and an extra pair of socks). I keep these clothes at least "double bagged" in my pack in order to keep the clothes dry--no matter what happens (even if my pack were to accidentally fall into a river). I carry the extra clothes, and use them only in "an emergency"--such as if everything else somehow becomes soaked and I need to ward of hypothermia. Only twice have I ever had to use these clothes---the last time was during 3 days of torrential rains with temperatures in the low 40s. None of the people that I encountered on the trail (or in camp) could remember a time when they themselves--or their gear--had become so wet. On the final night of the storm--it sure was nice having something dry to wear. It was perhaps even a lifesaver when the temps dropped to 39 degrees and the winds picked up

fiddlehead
02-02-2012, 20:41
Things I fear when hiking:
1/carrying so much weight that I hurt my knees/ankles
2/allowing my sleeping bag to get wet
3/losing stuff
4/breaking a guitar string (i don't carry spares)
5/dogs in town (been bitten three times)
6/bushwhacking through a swamp (don't know why as I even do this on hash house runs but, I never really enjoyed it)

Rain Man
02-02-2012, 21:29
And I first heard the idea on a Lynne Whelden video, where Warren was featured. I took it to heart and cut my pack weight in half in the first couple of seasons....

David Brill wrote one of the best ever AT hiking books (IMHO): "As Far as the Eye can See, Reflections of an Appalachian Trail Hiker," and indeed it is full of reflections. Here's one of his reflections (from Chapter One, "Fear"):


I realize now that there is no more reliable method for gauging a hiker's confidence than studying the contents of his pack. The least experienced hikers labor under a yoke of fear and worry, cluttering their packs with devices they hope will duplicate the security of more familiar environments.

His pack eventually went from 55 lbs down to 35 lbs.

Rain:sunMan

.

MJW155
02-03-2012, 01:04
David Brill wrote one of the best ever AT hiking books (IMHO): "As Far as the Eye can See, Reflections of an Appalachian Trail Hiker," and indeed it is full of reflections. Here's one of his reflections (from Chapter One, "Fear"):



His pack eventually went from 55 lbs down to 35 lbs.

Rain:sunMan

.


I'm leaving this year in April for my 1st thruhike. Just by learning and reading I've already cut about 15 lbs. I was planning on buying a balaclava. Was told to use a shirt around my face if needed. Was going to bring 5 pairs of underwear. Now bringing 2. Might even ditch that. Was going to bring boots for hiking and shoes for camp. Now just bringing shoes and light sandals. Was going to bring 2 t-shirts, 2 wool shirts, a down jacket, a shell, and raincoat. Now its 1 tshirt, 2 capilene shirts, and raincoat. It really does add up.

Miami Joe
02-03-2012, 02:58
I like a big knife. But, you know, I'm compensating.

nitewalker
02-03-2012, 07:54
I wouldn't call it fear, I'd call it a lack of experience.

fear---caused by going into the unknown with lack of experience, or something like that...

q-tip
02-03-2012, 10:11
Prudence-Rational concern without worry. (Dr. Bob-AA)

hikerboy57
02-03-2012, 14:10
I would say it is not fear which casues people to pack too much stuff, but inexperiance.

Until you learn what you really need, you will likley start off with too much stuff. Or maybe worse, not enough stuff or the wrong stuff. Those who pack weapons may do so out of fear. I know they scare me.i agree. its trial and error. outside of food and watter,Im pretty good. and the stupid swiss army knife.never use it. when was the last timne the swiss army saw action anyway?same with the knife.

MaybeTomorrow
02-03-2012, 16:22
i agree. its trial and error. outside of food and watter,Im pretty good. and the stupid swiss army knife.never use it. when was the last timne the swiss army saw action anyway?same with the knife.

No one is more fearful or slower to change than the army, the Swiss doubly so! They still do somethings like its WWI. This is a great thread. Its really making me think about what I'm afraid of, not just what is in my pack. I think my biggest fear is revealed by whats in my pocket every winter day, an adventure medics thermal bivy. I wont even keep it in my pack in fear that if I loose the whole pack. Oh, and girls. They are terrifying!

Tinker
02-03-2012, 17:55
David Brill wrote one of the best ever AT hiking books (IMHO): "As Far as the Eye can See, Reflections of an Appalachian Trail Hiker," and indeed it is full of reflections. Here's one of his reflections (from Chapter One, "Fear"):



His pack eventually went from 55 lbs down to 35 lbs.

Rain:sunMan

.

A must read! You didn't mention the "monster" at Lake Tiorati Circle :D.

stranger
02-03-2012, 23:43
I think 'fear' and 'lack of experience' are the same thing when it comes to this topic. Someone may 'fear' leaving behind a certain piece of gear because they 'lack the experience' to know whether or not they will need it. Experience is always the greatest teacher, and what works for one person won't work for another per say. Walk 500 miles and everything gets pretty simple.

WalksInDark
02-04-2012, 14:09
+1 For me: More gear = more comfort in camp.

Having said that, the areas where I tend to carry more than I need fit primarily into: clothes and food. The only way I have been able to reduce the amount of food I carry is to do regular multi-day hikes. What happens is: after a 5 day hike I check out what types of food I have left and then reduce the amount I carry on the next hike. Of course all of the "food reduction strategies" change as soon as the weather and/or temps climb or fall.

Unlike some hikers, I always factor in an extra days worth of food....as, in my experience, STUFF Happens and I don't always get off the trail on the day I had initially planned. Once again, this fits will with my overall philosophy that it is better to have the gear/food if you need it, than not to have it when it really counts.

When it comes to clothing reduction, if I haven't used a piece of "convenience" clothing in my pack for awhile, I leave it out the next trip. Over time, I can then figure out when I really might need the "convenience" clothing and only carry it again on those occasions.

(ASIDE: I might as well tell you how stupid I have been in the past...so as to reduce the chances that you make the same mistake(s) in the future. Socks: I read quite a few posts from folks who were thru hiking the AT and thought that I had garnered a few nuggets there. So, when I started doing repeated 5-7 day section hikes last summer I incorporated what I had thought I learned. Down the trail I went wearing two pairs of socks (an internal toe sock and a outer thicker wicking sock), plus I carried a second set of socks in case the first pair got wet during a stream crossing or damaged. Every night I would carefully dry the socks I had worn that day and put the same socks back on again the following morning. Problem was: I kept getting blisters!

After a few weeks of blister pain, I went into my local REI and shared my foot blister woes with one of the hiking boot specialists. Imagine my surprise when he asked me, "So, how many times a DAY are you changing your socks?" Holy smokes, so I was supposed to be taking off my socks multiple times each day....draping them off the back of my pack until they dried...and then changing the socks I was currently wearing whenever they get wet, WHO KNEW! ---I was hiking during the summer when the daily temps ranged from 85 to over 100 degrees daily, so, if I was following the REI's recommendation we are talking about changing socks 3-4 times daily---)

My second consideration is: am I hiking solo or with a group. When I am hiking solo, I have to carry "everything I might reasonably need," rather than just "whatever the other folks are not carrying" when hiking with a group.

In terms of how large a first aid kit to carry: while solo backpacking, I caught a toe and fell down face first onto a rocky AT feeder trail---I fell so fast that I didn't even have time to move my hands or arms--- and went unconscious for a few minutes; suddenly all of the first aid stuff I have been lugging in my pack for years were worth their weight in gold. In the 3-4 hours it took me to hike off of the trail, I was able to pre-clean at least some of the rocks and grit out of my deep forehead cut (wet nap), daub some Betadine on the cut, tape a 4" X 4" bandage on the cut, and take some pain pills to make me more comfortable. Oh yeah, all of the "extra" (as some folks would have defined it) water I was carrying was really nice to have as I found that the head injury and/or pain pills caused me to become dehydrated much faster than normal.

In my humble experience, it is more important for me to be "fit enough" to carry whatever gear I feel I need, than for me to obsess with how much weight I am carrying. After all, we all need to be able to carry the weight of our entire trip's gear on the first day....even though we know that the weight will get less and less as we eat and/or drink. If you are not fit enough to carry the weight of your first day's backpack load, you probably need to get in some more hiking/increase your fitness level to increase your "long haul hiking" pleasure.

Rasty
02-04-2012, 17:22
It's funny that when I was in my teens I carried very little gear (No Money). Then in my twenties started taking more stuff because I thought I needed it. Now I am much closer in gear weight to when I was young.

Blue Jay
02-10-2012, 15:12
Fear is a factor, but certainly not the only one. I have often seen ultalighters extremely uncomfortable. Did they die, hardly. I prefer comfort and am quite capable of enjoying the weight I carry. Fear of weight is kind of sad.

sbhikes
02-10-2012, 21:55
I totally want a T-shirt that says More fear = More gear. That would be awesome.

I've done enough trips where I've forgotten some crucial piece of gear to know that there are few crucial pieces of gear.

Wise Old Owl
02-10-2012, 22:17
MF=MG! yup.

ljcsov
02-10-2012, 22:23
I think fear contributes significantly to the amount of gear you carry.

For instance, today I hiked on a nearby Peters Mountain and took with me a bunch of extra layers because I was trying out a few different insulation items. I didn't want to be out there freezing while making my lunch. It ended up that I did not even need to open that bag of extras! I am still new to all this stuff so I feel like I won't be carrying extra gear once I get a feel for things. It seems the cold weather also requires a bit more precision with gear choices.

Also, I guarantee that a good number of people are fueled by the urge to buy new gear. For most guy hikers, their gear equates to their man toys. It's always fun to get new stuff and try it out.

Sailing_Faith
02-10-2012, 22:38
There is no intent to imply that all extra gear is the result of fear... only to point out that more fear may well result in packing unnecessary stuff.

I am a big proponent of making 'deliberate decisions'. If you want to carry a french press, or a battery operated blender... more power to you! It seems to me that some folks report having things in their pack because they are 'afraid' to be without it and that fear may or may not be rational.

Our lives are full of choices... awareness of our making these choices is a great thing...

I have read some animosity in some of the posts on this thread... my point is not to speak against anyone's deliberate decisions but to raise the question of why some folks carry the things they do (and learn from others choices what things I may want to avoid toting for no reason).

Peace,

jj2044
02-10-2012, 22:57
Fear is a factor, but certainly not the only one. I have often seen ultalighters extremely uncomfortable. Did they die, hardly. I prefer comfort and am quite capable of enjoying the weight I carry. Fear of weight is kind of sad.

thank you, so many people are weight weenies, i would rather carry my 30 pounds and know i can stay comfortable.... i think it funny when you see people cutting handles off of things to "save weight" lol or the people that just bought a new 400 buck sleeping bag becuase it saved him 1/2 a pound !! WOW a whole 1/2 pound !!!!! most people and again i say MOST cant tell teh differ between 27 and 30 pounds. most funny is the people that spend 2k or more on this ultralight gear and then 3/4 of them QUIT within a week or 2.