View Full Version : external frame pack vs internal frame
I was wondering the difference between a internal and external pack and what peoples opinions are on the two on a thru hike. Any input would be greatly appreciated
CrumbSnatcher
10-12-2011, 21:34
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MuddyWaters
10-12-2011, 22:17
Internal frame is inside the pack, External is outside the pack bag.
You can hang /carry stuff all over an external frame pack. Whether that is needed or is good or not is for you to decide.
Internal rides close to back and stable, good for balance in off camber situations, scrambling, climbing, etc. External is usually not as good for that.
Internal is hotter and sweatier against back, External is cooler in warm weather
Internal imay be lighter weight, External is most likely heavier
External might carry more weight.
Majority of packs made today are internal, Very few are external
The best pack is the one that fits you and your gear. Many people have successfully used each. Todays trend is primarily internal frame packs.
Some old school hikers swear by external frame packs - they lash their sleeping bags and pads to the outside and instead of a pack cover they use a poncho - they wear the poncho over the whole show. They swear that they are comfortable, don't sweat inside this rig and so forth - I did part of my '85 SOBO this way because it was sort of the thing then but learned what is better for ME and got an internal frame pack - an early Dana Design. Please, hike your own hike and if you like the internal frame, go for it, but I would personally never recommend an external frame pack - they are bulky and don't move very well with your body - packing them is clumsy and you sort of have to have the pack / poncho thing together to make it work. I put everything INSIDE my internal frame pack - an Osprey (45-70 liters depending on season and exact use) and keep it snugly covered with a pack cover. If I want to leave it somewhere in the rain (that is to say "stash it"), I put my rain jacket on, put the pack in a compactor bag and pack cover (combined) and take off. External packs are also very clumsy and seem to catch themselves on tree limbs, rock outcrops etc. - I also think that they dictate how you pack and can therefore easily end up very top-heavy. You can often rent backpacks from outfitters - you might be able to rent an external frame and try it out - my bet is that you transition to an internal frame if you do this a while.
stranger
10-13-2011, 00:03
I (and others) have written extensively on this subject on this website, I would recommend doing some searches on the subject as there are many threads about this topic already. In short external packs are still very good for what they are intended for, however I wouldn't consider the typical AT thru-hike in that category, not anymore. 15 years ago maybe. In this day and age it's fairly common to have a total pack weight of 25lbs including food and water - hardly a big load to handle. For heavy loads on established trails they are great, so in the days of 7lb tents and 4lb sleeping bags they ruled.
If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me. I was a professional pack fitter for 10 years, did a few thousands fits, many of them externals, and was also a design consultant and troubleshooter for a few big names back in the day, I might be able help, might not.
garlic08
10-13-2011, 09:41
Think outside the box. I've been using frameless packs for years. I even met an AT hiker with his gear stuffed into a large bamboo tube slung over his shoulder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YvamKhmo3U&feature=channel_video_title
4eyedbuzzard
10-13-2011, 10:47
Like others have said, given the lower weight and compactness of modern gear, you don't really need what is IMO the better load carrying capabilities of an external. They are great on more improved trails with big loads, but are much more difficult from a balance standpoint in tougher terrain. The external vs internal difference is no problem in places with easier trail like SNP and most of the mid-Atlantic, either will do just fine. But you'll definitely appreciate the better balance and lower center of gravity of an internal in places like NH and ME.
stranger
10-13-2011, 19:48
External frames are better when you are balanced, walking on moderate, established trails....internal frames are better for every other scenario (I include frameless in this category). Externals squeak and creak...do not underestimate this!
hikerboy57
10-13-2011, 19:57
These days thre are plenty of internal frame packs available that have well-ventilated backs. My Osprey Atmos is one example, but there are many others.Internals tend to move with your body a little better than externals, more stable for rock hopping and scaling the occasional rock face.as noted above, though, there are plenty here that swear by externals.
There, you have your answer!
smokeeater908
10-13-2011, 21:49
I carry a ULA Ohm it is setup to loft your gear in it so that is your support, have been told before by Wenton at Mountain Crossing that a pack is not like an automatic car it is like a straight shift. You can just put it on and go it is going to have to be adjusted from time to time.
My experience is that I stayed with external far too long. When I began hiking internals were pretty much useless for long distance hikes unless one had daily resupply. Plus they weren't big enough for tent, bag, pad etc. Alot has changed internal frame's work better balance wise and everything can now fit in there. Plus they are lighter.
I view the prey designs as the newest form of external frame packs. If one looks coy you can see what i mean.
Jim Adams
10-14-2011, 11:59
externals will carry even light loads very comfortably and internals are just a fashion statement.:)
geek
max patch
10-14-2011, 12:28
I just bought a replacement external pack a few days ago so I guess thats my advice.
atmilkman
10-14-2011, 12:32
Internal frame is inside the pack, External is outside the pack bag.
You can hang /carry stuff all over an external frame pack. Whether that is needed or is good or not is for you to decide.
Internal rides close to back and stable, good for balance in off camber situations, scrambling, climbing, etc. External is usually not as good for that.
Internal is hotter and sweatier against back, External is cooler in warm weather
Internal imay be lighter weight, External is most likely heavier
External might carry more weight.
Majority of packs made today are internal, Very few are external
The best pack is the one that fits you and your gear. Many people have successfully used each. Todays trend is primarily internal frame packs.
This is a fairly good example of the basic differences that you are asking about. Another point that was brought up is that there is a time and a place for either with each having an advantage over the other. If you can get both. You'll find out when is best. Like hammocks vs. tents, if you can get both. Trail runners vs. boots, same thing, and there are many others. Point is you will be able to expand your comfort zone according to time of year, where your at etc. Don't become stereotyped into one way or another. Try everything. Just like food. Try anything once. (lol)
I view the prey designs as the newest form of external frame packs. If one looks coy you can see what i mean.
This was supposed to say...
" I view the osprey designs as the newest form of external frame packs. If one looks closely you can see what I mean."
... dang phone keypad.
MuddyWaters
10-14-2011, 19:54
yep
the osprey exos, etc is definitely an external frame, but its shaped sexy.
Some love them, some say they are the most uncomfortable thing they ever put on.
Actually, many "internal frame" packs actually have the stays on the outside, making them not internal frames at all either.
We need some new nomenclature.
stranger
10-15-2011, 10:43
This is a fairly good example of the basic differences that you are asking about. Another point that was brought up is that there is a time and a place for either with each having an advantage over the other. If you can get both. You'll find out when is best. Like hammocks vs. tents, if you can get both. Trail runners vs. boots, same thing, and there are many others. Point is you will be able to expand your comfort zone according to time of year, where your at etc. Don't become stereotyped into one way or another. Try everything. Just like food. Try anything once. (lol)
Good advice....the reason why I eventually went internal is because they perform better overall for 'everything' i do (long distance hiking, snow-shoeing, travelling) where as a external is good for moderate trail hiking, and not much else. But if all you are doing is moderate trail hiking, then you don't 'need' an internal pack.
I would love to see someone like ULA or Osprey come out with a 3lb external frame!
4eyedbuzzard
10-15-2011, 10:55
yep
the osprey exos, etc is definitely an external frame, but its shaped sexy.
Some love them, some say they are the most uncomfortable thing they ever put on.
Actually, many "internal frame" packs actually have the stays on the outside, making them not internal frames at all either.
We need some new nomenclature.A gear marketers dream. Start calling internals with stays "hybrids". Yep, you know you're gonna need to buy one of those. :rolleyes:
rmitchell
10-15-2011, 20:37
Good advice....the reason why I eventually went internal is because they perform better overall for 'everything' i do (long distance hiking, snow-shoeing, travelling) where as a external is good for moderate trail hiking, and not much else. But if all you are doing is moderate trail hiking, then you don't 'need' an internal pack.
I would love to see someone like ULA or Osprey come out with a 3lb external frame!
Carbon fiber or titanium ladder frame and silnet fabric packbag and decent straps and hipbelt would be great. But the cost??
CrumbSnatcher
10-15-2011, 20:40
IMO its not as simple as a pack vs. a pack
i'd like to think its the hiker that makes the difference not the gear.
as they say its not the gear thats going to get you to katahdin!
CrumbSnatcher
10-15-2011, 20:48
whatever gets ya out there
MuddyWaters
10-15-2011, 20:56
Carbon fiber or titanium ladder frame and silnet fabric packbag and decent straps and hipbelt would be great. But the cost??
zpacks exo
carbon fiber external frame, cuben/dynema laminate fabric $259 before additions
Stats 2012
10-15-2011, 23:36
I own two externals; love em; see no need to spend the extra money. I figure if the old timers could do it with an external, so can I.
I just finished a great section hike in NH with a Hyperlite Mountain Gear pack.......my old pack was starting to wear through in several places, lent that to a friend who spent few days with me, this pack is lightweight, cuben fiber, nothing inside got damp, really-really comfortable to carry and unlike packs with mesh backs that get wet, heavier and smelly...........the cuben fiber against my back was excellent. The pack was a tough small for those that carry a good amount of gear, think that they would make it a bit bigger if asked.
Jim Adams
10-16-2011, 20:32
I have several Peak 1 externals....you have to buy the last series made as the earlier ones had poor hip belts and no load lifters but the ones that I have are VERY comfortable and weight just over 3#.
geek
this is a boring post about a dead topic - if you want to carry an external frame pack, fine - to me, old-school stuff can be great - external frames don't come to mind though - sort of like Betamax or 8-track