View Full Version : Correct placement of ground sheet
kayaker4ever
10-13-2011, 23:10
There is so much information on this site and I'm a new member so this may be a repeat.
I learned a long time ago to put my ground sheet on the floor inside my tent and not under the tent. The only reason to put it under the tent is if you want to keep the bottom pretty so you can sell the tent later. When it is under the tent and there is rain, the rain will get between the ground sheet and the tent bottom and pool. Then the water will cause condensation on the inside of the floor and your gear will soak it up. Even if it doesn't rain, condensation is bound to form on the inside due to temperature difference. If you put it on the inside the condensation will be between the floor and the ground sheet and none of your gear will get wet. I've been doing this for 25 years and never had a problem with any thing getting wet. I did have a problem before I started doing this. By the way, when I get home I wash the outside bottom of the tent.
ChinMusic
10-13-2011, 23:18
I don't use a ground sheet, but if I did it would be UNDER the tent and a size smaller than the footprint of my tent.
If it's not raining I put the ground sheet under my tent (Hexamid) to keep it cleaner. If it rains, I put it inside because it works better with the Hexamid that way.
ChinMusic
10-14-2011, 09:28
If it's not raining I put the ground sheet under my tent (Hexamid) to keep it cleaner. If it rains, I put it inside because it works better with the Hexamid that way.
With the Hexamid, I agree. But it is a different beast.
Rain Man
10-14-2011, 09:40
I've been doing this for 25 years and never had a problem with any thing getting wet. I did have a problem before I started doing this.
Soooo... what's the question/problem, then? You didn't ask a question, so you just passing along the wisdom of your experience?
Rain:sunMan
.
. . . .The only reason to put it under the tent is if you want to keep the bottom pretty so you can sell the tent later. . . . Yeah, not exactly. Actually, you're just plain wrong. The big reason that comes to mind for the groundsheet to be between the bottom of the tent and the ground is to protect the groundsheet.
. . . . When it is under the tent and there is rain, the rain will get between the ground sheet and the tent bottom and pool. . . . Yeah, wrong again. This can be avoided by having he edges of the groundsheet smaller than the edges of the tent, this way water won't pool underneath. Pretty sure you're 0-2 so far passing around bum intel.
PapaGarrettP
10-14-2011, 10:03
[QUOTE=Hooch;1208728]Yeah, not exactly. Actually, you're just plain wrong. The big reason that comes to mind for the groundsheet to be between the bottom of the tent and the ground is to protect the groundsheet.
???????
hikerboy57
10-14-2011, 10:10
Ive never used one before, but i have to ask what purpose does putting a groundsheet inside your tent serve?
Hmmm, I'm confused about the whole inside the tent thingy.... Why do you think they call it a "ground" sheet?
Now if they called it an "inside the tent sheet" you'd have a point.
The reason I use a ground sheet when using a floored tent is to protect the tent floor from abrasion as I roll around at night. Cost of tent - $300.00, cost of ground sheet - $1.75. The ground sheet goes under the tent. As others have said, if the ground sheet is kept under the floor, not sticking out, it will not "pool" water unless you have a stream flowing under your tent, in which case you need to learn better site selection skills.
Regarding condensation, it is a fact of life in cold weather. If the ground sheet is inside the tent, it will still be just as cold as the tent floor, so the condensation will still occur, but on the ground sheet instead of the tent floor. It will occur wherever the meeting of moist warm air and cold surface meet - Physics.
Obviously, do what you like and what you find works for you, but please do not pass-on false arguments for your decisions as many folks do when this topic comes up.
Yeah, not exactly. Actually, you're just plain wrong. The big reason that comes to mind for the groundsheet to be between the bottom of the tent and the ground is to protect the groundsheet.
???????Obviously, I meant protection of the tent floor. My name ain't Jesus and neither is yours. :p
atmilkman
10-14-2011, 11:19
What tent do you have? Can you not get a footprint for it? The tent I have has a footprint that also acts as a groundsheet. It also allows me to set up with fly and footprint only to lighten the load when I choose and to set the tent up in the rain without it getting overly saturated.
P.S. I knew what you meant Hooch.
Yeah, not exactly. Actually, you're just plain wrong. The big reason that comes to mind for the groundsheet to be between the bottom of the tent and the ground is to protect the groundsheet.
Yeah, wrong again. This can be avoided by having he edges of the groundsheet smaller than the edges of the tent, this way water won't pool underneath. Pretty sure you're 0-2 so far passing around bum intel.
DB... Bum Intel on WB??? Seriously??? Its not like he has 3788 posts... His first post... He must be out hiking and not livin' in his mom's basement Internet Hiking :eek:...
If he was out hiking he'd know better.
ChinMusic
10-14-2011, 12:19
He must be out hiking and not livin' in his mom's basement Internet Hiking :eek:...
When I cyber hike I use three ground cloths, one under the tent, one under me to protect me from condensation from below, and another on top of me to protect me from condensation from above.
When I hike I don't use any.
When I cyber hike I use three ground cloths, one under the tent, one under me to protect me from condensation from below, and another on top of me to protect me from condensation from above.
When I hike I don't use any.
Now THATS funny... Not just pathetic... I might add you to my "Favs" ChinMusic"...
daddytwosticks
10-14-2011, 15:38
In the tent...under the tent? I thought you had to bury your "sheet" at least 6 inches deep? :)
hikerboy57
10-14-2011, 15:42
i put my groundsheet under the golf clubs in the closet.
4eyedbuzzard
10-14-2011, 18:43
It's called a ground cloth for a reason. If it was supposed to be used on the tent floor it would be called a floor cloth. Sheesh. :D
aaronthebugbuffet
10-14-2011, 18:50
Whatever works for you.
When I cyber hike I use three ground cloths, one under the tent, one under me to protect me from condensation from below, and another on top of me to protect me from condensation from above.
When I hike I don't use any.
I actually wear Tyvek underwear when I cyber hike.
Yes, they're boxers.
kayaker4ever
10-14-2011, 20:09
Man every body sure got shook up about my posting. First let me say that by looking at the ages of the people who responded (the ones that show their age on here) it seems I've been camping before most of you were born or you were only 5 years old when I started camping. I've been camping since I was 10. I've camped in tents or lean-to's. I average 10 camping trips a year sometimes more in tents from 12x12 to solo. I've been on several wilderness canoe trips of several weeks. I've hiked some of the AT. I've camped in California, Minnesota, Canada, Vietnam. I regularly camp in the mountains of North Carolina/Tennesee during the winter. I've camped in northern Wisconsin during the winter. I may not be on the trail right at the moment but for all of you in your 30s or less I've probably got more time in a tent then you have in your car. I was not passing on some false information. I was passing on what I learned from an even more experienced camper 25 years ago. It works for me. I wasn't calling any one stupid if you didn't care to use your ground sheet like I suggested. It was just a tip from many years of experience. For 'Spokes' and '4eyedbuzzard' I called it a "ground sheet" because that is the name it started out being called. Call it what you want. This is the most closed minded group I've ever joined.
ok, well, I'm not going to get in a peeing contest about "experience" but, alas, I've spent more nights in various tents than anyone I know (and still spend about 50 NPY (that's nights per year) out so, I'll just tell you what I do:
1) Site selection is about 90% - even in a gully washer, I can usually find a site that I can keep bone dry in sans ground sheet (or groundcloth if you prefer)
2) I do typically carry a groundsheet made of tyvek and prefer it to a tent footprint
3) For many years I camped under a tarp only and the groundsheet is more important
4) the "leading edge" of the groundsheet must obviously be just smaller than your tent floor (or the drip edge of the tarp) or you take a bath
5) kayaker4ever's deal with the groundsheet inside the tent works but has problems especially wicking problems and water wicking around the edges of the tent soooo
6) for tent camping, my groundsheet goes under the tent - this is the most standard practice - it also keeps you from wearing out your tent floor
7) I have several tent "foot-prints" - I have never liked them very much as they are just another layer of pack-cloth - the exception was in the later '90s when I used a Black Diamond Beta-Mid and Mega-Mid - these rigs sort of had to have the integrated floor (footprint) - so I used it.
Y'all be good to kayaker4ever - he sounds like a boater and boaters are ok
I have been on whiteblaze a short time. One common theme is warped humor ( myself included ). If I fall down it's a terrible thing. If you fall down it's funny. Try not to take it to heart.
4eyedbuzzard
10-14-2011, 21:12
Man every body sure got shook up about my posting. First let me say that by looking at the ages of the people who responded (the ones that show their age on here) it seems I've been camping before most of you were born or you were only 5 years old when I started camping. I've been camping since I was 10. I've camped in tents or lean-to's. I average 10 camping trips a year sometimes more in tents from 12x12 to solo. I've been on several wilderness canoe trips of several weeks. I've hiked some of the AT. I've camped in California, Minnesota, Canada, Vietnam. I regularly camp in the mountains of North Carolina/Tennesee during the winter. I've camped in northern Wisconsin during the winter. I may not be on the trail right at the moment but for all of you in your 30s or less I've probably got more time in a tent then you have in your car. I was not passing on some false information. I was passing on what I learned from an even more experienced camper 25 years ago. It works for me. I wasn't calling any one stupid if you didn't care to use your ground sheet like I suggested. It was just a tip from many years of experience. For 'Spokes' and '4eyedbuzzard' I called it a "ground sheet" because that is the name it started out being called. Call it what you want. This is the most closed minded group I've ever joined.I have actually heard previously of your technique - from an old timer as well. But it offers no real advantage in terms of water proofing. You either protect the outside of the tent floor or the inside. Either way, if there is a leak in the floor, water will get in if the soil around the tent can't absorb it and the water runs under the tent or pools. It either comes in over top of a groundsheet - this can happen sometimes even if it is cut smaller than the footprint, but is made much worse if the sheet extends beyond the tent edges, or it comes through the floor under the inside groundsheet, out to the edges and onto the floor. Neither is good. Both result in a wet tent. Putting it on the outside gives a better chance of not letting water in, in the first place as there are two layers between you and the inside of the tent. That's my reasoning anyway. And yeah, my ground vs floor cloth reply was honestly just in fun. This can be a tough group at times. It would be rare to see a thread without a few digs or some humor delivered at the expense of the poster. Pretty much every question (and this applies to tips too) about hiking that has ever been asked has been asked here twice - last week. So 1/2 the replies tend to be sarcastic, or in jest. No hard feelings. ;) :)
. . . . This is the most closed minded group I've ever joined.I don't think I'd equate people not wanting to do things your way with being closed minded. I'm sure I came across a bit strong, but I do believe firmly in the concept of HYOH and folks doing things the way that works for them. Best o' luck to ya.
kayaker4ever
10-14-2011, 21:47
I appreciate the comments and honestly didn't mean to infer that the rest of you aren't as knowledgable as me. In reference to 4eyedbuzzard's last comments. I understand about the size of the ground sheet under the tent needing to be smaller than the tent floor and possibly getting your gear wet if water comes into the the tent through the floor and over the ground sheet placed inside. I choose to carry a ground sheet. My choice. It is bigger than the inside floor so it comes up slightly on each side and any moisture from the floor doesn't reach my gear. If enough water gets in to get my gear wet, a ground sheet either under or over or one under and one over isn't going to help. Like I said in my post, I have never had my gear get wet or damp from moisture coming from the floor since I started putting it inside. I've also read articles saying that most floor punctures come from inside the tent. In all my years of camping I have never had a hole in my tent floor. That comes from a good site selection and knowing what the ground is like under my tent.
I just found and joined this group yesterday and I now understand (I've read some other threads) that just about every thing written here will be challenged or in some way made humorus. I'll be more understanding in the future. (and probably, with good humor, pick at some of the writing.)
atmilkman
10-14-2011, 21:54
I appreciate the comments and honestly didn't mean to infer that the rest of you aren't as knowledgable as me. In reference to 4eyedbuzzard's last comments. I understand about the size of the ground sheet under the tent needing to be smaller than the tent floor and possibly getting your gear wet if water comes into the the tent through the floor and over the ground sheet placed inside. I choose to carry a ground sheet. My choice. It is bigger than the inside floor so it comes up slightly on each side and any moisture from the floor doesn't reach my gear. If enough water gets in to get my gear wet, a ground sheet either under or over or one under and one over isn't going to help. Like I said in my post, I have never had my gear get wet or damp from moisture coming from the floor since I started putting it inside. I've also read articles saying that most floor punctures come from inside the tent. In all my years of camping I have never had a hole in my tent floor. That comes from a good site selection and knowing what the ground is like under my tent.
I just found and joined this group yesterday and I now understand (I've read some other threads) that just about every thing written here will be challenged or in some way made humorus. I'll be more understanding in the future. (and probably, with good humor, pick at some of the writing.)
Welcome to WhiteBlaze!
Old Hiker
10-14-2011, 22:24
Groundsheet? Groundsheet? Oh, yeah! I remember. I used one UNDER the tent before I evolved and got my hammock! HYOH - hang your own hammock!
Can't believe I'm the first hammocker to chime in. Everyone else must be out in the woods and I'm stuck at home!
4eyedbuzzard
10-14-2011, 22:30
Can't believe I'm the first hammocker to chime in.We can believe it. All you hammockers are touch slow. :p
atmilkman
10-14-2011, 22:34
Groundsheet? Groundsheet? Oh, yeah! I remember. I used one UNDER the tent before I evolved and got my hammock! HYOH - hang your own hammock!
Can't believe I'm the first hammocker to chime in. Everyone else must be out in the woods and I'm stuck at home!
Old Hiker, can you go over to the lite tents post say around #17 and make me a winner. I've yet to win one of these things. I think I'm do. What do you think? Do I still need more time?
Man goes to the doctor...
He says "Doc, I have this reoccurring dream, but it has two variations"
"Sometimes I dream I'm a wigam. But, some times I dream I'm a tipi... It goes on and on and on! I'm a tipi. I'm a wigwam. I'm a tipi. I'm a wigwam".
The doctors says "You know what your problem is?"
The man says "No?"
Doc says "Your two tense"
(Try the veal! Tip your servers! I'll be back Sunday night! )
4eyedbuzzard
10-14-2011, 23:13
I hate open mic night . . .
Slo-go'en
10-15-2011, 17:23
The advice to put a ground cloth inside a tent might date back to a time before tents were made of waterproof nylon.
If you trench around your tent you won't need a ground cloth ;)
Tents need a tall bathtub floor so you can pitch it in the middle of shallow creeks. Obviously the ground cloth would go inside the tent in this case.
I am the most experienced hiker ever... and I prefer Dos Equis! My advice is post a question instead of offering your opinion and then come back with we're the most closed minded folks ever when we disagree. Never mind that we are, its the point that counts!?!
Frankly, I think someone had a groundsheet issue at some point and said let me try this, and then passed that "knowledge" on. You know its BS, right? I mean, you can do what you want, but I think technically it doesn't make sense. A groundsheet is a more "disposable" item than is a tent body, and therefore, it goes on the ground where its more exposed to rocks, etc. that could wear it out more quickly. Use up the ground sheet, buy a new one. Don't ask me to buy a new tent body because I'm sleeping on my groundsheet!
Not that I would do that anyway, I hammock. Point is, this argument isn't about experience, and therefore, the idea is being called out on technical merit. Doesn't mean you don't have experience, just means putting a groundsheet inside your tent and calling that the more proper way to do things is Fxxxxxx nuts. HYOH of course, and if you want to do that, none of us have the experience to tell you that its wrong for you. We say its wrong for us, and that includes most of the other very experienced (or not) hikers that we know and hike with.
Otherwise, we'd be saying, yeah I hike with a guy that does that, too. Freakin' nuts he is, but that's how he likes it!
If you trench around your tent you won't need a ground cloth ;)
Isn't that illegal or somethin'? (LNT)
If I set my tent up inside my kayak does that count?
To be serious, I don't understand how a body can be more abrasive than the ground. The ground has little particles of rock called dirt. That stuff is bonded to paper to create sandpaper. When I grind that stuff on my skin, my skin is abraded. This tells me that if I want to protect my tent floor from abrasion, the groundsheet should go between the tent floor and the ground.
If you trench around your tent you won't need a ground cloth ;)
Wasn't that advice in the 1952 Boy Scout manual?
Isn't that illegal or somethin'? (LNT)
No trenching is the preferred method of keeping your tent dry. You trench outside your tent not inside;)
If I set my tent up inside my kayak does that count?
I could have used a kayak this August in Maine! But that would be aqua-blazing.
To be serious, I don't understand how a body can be more abrasive than the ground. The ground has little particles of rock called dirt. That stuff is bonded to paper to create sandpaper. When I grind that stuff on my skin, my skin is abraded. This tells me that if I want to protect my tent floor from abrasion, the groundsheet should go between the tent floor and the ground.
FWIW, when I backpack, I choose my sites carefully and DO NOT bring a ground cloth for the tent. This type of trip is with the better half and I bring the Lunar Duo.
When I am solo and/or hiking with a buddy, I take tarp-like shelter (Wild Oasis) with no floor and tend to cowboy camp. I throw down a ground cloth.
When I am car camping (late Fall and Winter/early Spring), the sites are often established sites with hard, impacted ground with sand paper like dirt. I take a ground cloth.
What does all this mean? Hey..I found something that works for me. Take what I do FWIW and a find a way that works for you. :)
SunnyWalker
05-22-2012, 15:31
Do you put your Kyak down under the tent, then tent, then "ground" cloth? Kind of hard to stake down the "ground" cloth isn't it??
rocketsocks
05-22-2012, 15:36
I have taken my ground cloth and tucked it up under the rain fly,between the fly and the tent.I've not heard anyone say this,I always just thought thats how ya do it?:-?