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AbeHikes
02-27-2005, 17:47
I went out for a quick jaunt to Springer from Amicalola this morning. I kicked off from the arch at about 7:45, but really misjudged what the what the wind would do to the temperature on top of the hills and mountains. I wasn't dressed warmly enough. I got to a certain point and decided I wasn't enjoying myself. Rain is also in the forecast today. I was all right while I was moving, but any sort of inactivity even for short periods of time left me shivering. So I said to myself "Screw it. I live close enough. I'll come back in warmer clothes soon or on a warmer day."

That's by no means interesting, but a guy I ran into was. When I first passed him on my way out of the boundary for Amicalola Park, he was off the the north/northeast side of the trail going through his pack. He had a line stretched between two trees and was rummaging for something. He was bundled up pretty good (better than me), so I don't think he was cold. However he was intent on what he was doing, so I didn't bother him with a greeting, etc.

On my way back, I found him at the same location. This time he was sitting, facing away from the trail. He was inside a contrived tarp/tent configuration made of clear sheet plastic stretched over the rope I previously mentioend. It was flapping around him, expanding and contracting, and making a pretty good racket. When I noticed him this time, he was out of earshot, but I could hear him saying something loudly. I couldn't tell what it was, but he was emphatic. When I got close enough, I heard him saying "F***!" F*** THIS! F***! F*** THIS!" He was also pounding and stomping the ground where he was sitting.

Although I was relatively close to the park boundary and spent 3 years as a policeman in North Georgia, I didn't feel comfortable engaging this guy. Actually is probably my law enforcement experience that told me to move on. I quietly hiked on by and left him to his wailing and gnashing of teeth. I'm not sure why he was setting up shelter at about 8:15AM so close to Amicalola. He either just left the arch before me or was within about 1500 yards from being able to completely finish. I didn't get the impression that he was in trouble, just upset.

My question to you, dear readers, is "Was this the right thing to do?". Should I have checked on the UNHappy Camper or kept clear of him?

Jack Tarlin
02-27-2005, 17:58
I think you did just fine.

If he developed any problems that required assistance from others, it sounds like he was certainly close enough to the Park so he could get help himself.

And from what you describe, it doesn't sound like he'd have been very receptive to help or suggestions from you at the time.

I think you did just right.

Dances with Mice
02-27-2005, 18:07
...it wasn't me. I was not in that area this weekend. I was there the weekend before. And my tarp isn't clear.

Sounds like he was equipped and situated so that whatever his problems were, he was not in immediate danger of injury due to exposure. He was animated and appeared energetic enough to get himself to another place if he chose. If he needed help he could find it.

I would have also left him alone to wrestle with his demons.

AbeHikes
02-27-2005, 18:14
...it wasn't me.
Ha. Actually, I was debating on whether I should even post. I was picturing the UNHappy Camper being a site member and replying "Why the hell didn't you help me?".

wacocelt
02-27-2005, 18:53
"Why the hell didn't you help me?".

I'll get you my pretty!

Lone Wolf
02-27-2005, 18:56
I would've engaged him and shared my moonshine and Ritalin with him.

AbeHikes
02-27-2005, 18:58
All I had was peyote.

SGT Rock
02-27-2005, 19:19
Smile real nice and tell him to have a GREAT DAY!:sun

Youngblood
02-27-2005, 20:43
Sounds to me like you really want to know what his problem was... but were afraid to ask. I might have been too.

Seriously, we had some ferious winds in the southeast and they changed directions during the night. I about got blown off Big Frog Mtn in southern TN on the Benton MacKaye Trail last night but my approach was to pack up at first light to get off the mountain and out of the wind. You reckon he didn't know what to do in the wind... like trying to set up some second rate shelter in the wind instead of just hiking to a place that was out of the wind? I've seen some interesting things/people on the trails and you never know for sure what some folks have figured out.

Youngblood

wacocelt
02-27-2005, 21:10
Hey you guys, he was just one of those guys that started and within 1500 feet of the start realized that THIS was NOT the AT he thought it was going to be!

TakeABreak
02-27-2005, 21:22
Sounds to me like WacoCelt, is right, here. I went camping with a guy in the Porcupine mountains( they are really small hills) in the Northwestern corner of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, about 12 years ago.

He slipped and fell and got up cussing like nothing I have ever heard, he really put me to shame on my worst day. And he was the most miserable hiking partner a person could ever want, besides he was short and thin, and carrying way too much weight. probably half his body weight.

What does this have to do with everything, well my point is as wacocelt said, the guy loved the idea but had no idea what it was like to venture 1500 from a road. Better that guy finds out there and turns around goes home, than to go further, because with his attitude, he is going to get into trouble, one way or another.

AbeHikes
02-27-2005, 21:35
That may very well have been the case. I turned around today even on my short hike. But, I think it's better to realize your own real limitations now than require others to bail you out later. Live to hike another day...

Jack Tarlin
02-27-2005, 22:27
I have personally seen several people quit on the Approach Trail without ever seeing one white blaze. I've also seen folks returning to Amicalola/Springer or quitting at USFS 42, after hiking less than a day.

Thru-hiking isn't for everyone.

Percival
02-27-2005, 22:31
With the divorce thread, it sounds like kook and nut season has arrived on the lower AT.

AbeHikes
02-27-2005, 22:57
With the divorce thread, it sounds like kook and nut season has arrived on the lower AT.
That's why I posted them. The 2 most interesting parts of my morning...

Youngblood
02-28-2005, 08:35
I have personally seen several people quit on the Approach Trail without ever seeing one white blaze. I've also seen folks returning to Amicalola/Springer or quitting at USFS 42, after hiking less than a day.

Thru-hiking isn't for everyone.
Jack,

This is why I recommend that most first timers hike the Approach Trail. The 8.5 mile Approach Trail has several good climbs and gives you a taste of what you are in for before you get too far from paved road crossings and an easier ride back to civilization.

On the other hand, those that get dropped 0.9 mile north of Springer Mountain on FSR 42 have a pretty easy time of it all the was to Three Forks and maybe even to Hawk Mountain Shelter. But then they hit those three tugs (Sassafras, Justice and an unnamed one?) and find out what it is really like to hike all those mountains. And, if they are not up to it, it can be pretty scary to figure a way out of the mountains... especially if they are worn out and/or have serious blisters or other ailments.

Besides, the Approach Trail is a nice trail and it is just 8.5 bonus miles in the overall scheme of a thru-hike... and if you can't make it on the Approach Trail then maybe you don't really want to be on the AT heading north... yet.

Youngblood

Peaks
02-28-2005, 08:54
Jack,

This is why I recommend that most first timers hike the Approach Trail. The 8.5 mile Approach Trail has several good climbs and gives you a taste of what you are in for before you get too far from paved road crossings and an easier ride back to civilization.

On the other hand, those that get dropped 0.9 mile north of Springer Mountain on FSR 42 have a pretty easy time of it all the was to Three Forks and maybe even to Hawk Mountain Shelter. But then they hit those three tugs (Sassafras, Justice and an unnamed one?) and find out what it is really like to hike all those mountains. And, if they are not up to it, it can be pretty scary to figure a way out of the mountains... especially if they are worn out and/or have serious blisters or other ailments.

Besides, the Approach Trail is a nice trail and it is just 8.5 bonus miles in the overall scheme of a thru-hike... and if you can't make it on the Approach Trail then maybe you don't really want to be on the AT heading north... yet.

Youngblood


I'll agree with that. I think Jack once posted something like people who skip the Approach Trail are those looking to take the easy way out and short cuts right from the start. And in the long run, this usually doesn't work out.

hikerjohnd
02-28-2005, 10:29
I think Jack once posted something like people who skip the Approach Trail are those looking to take the easy way out and short cuts right from the start. And in the long run, this usually doesn't work out. I will be skipping the approach trail when I start my hike. I'm not looking for a shortcut, or the easy way out. I have hiked the appraoch trail before and do not see it as a necessary element to complete my thru-hike.

Having said that - I wonder what motivates people to hike the AT when they have no experience hiking? I at least have experience in the woods and mountains. I met an older woman (55-65 hard to tell) at an outfitter in Jax who was gearing up. Her jewelry, manicure, and huge Caddy outside tells me she does not know what she is in for. I spoke with her breifly and she thinks this will be a walk in the park. Her illusions of strolling through the woods looking at flowers and birds tells me she will be one of the folks looking for a ride home in the first week. Although I hope she makes it - very nice lady...

The Old Fhart
02-28-2005, 11:03
I think Jack once posted something like people who skip the Approach Trail are those looking to take the easy way out and short cuts right from the start. And in the long run, this usually doesn't work out.Having never done the Approach Trail all I can say is that it didn't have any effect on any of my hikes. In 1987 when I only had 3 weeks to do a section of the A.T., I wanted to spend all my limited time hiking the A.T. and adding the Approach Trail in would have reduced that. Seeing the Approach Trail isn't really part of the A.T., I don't see skipping it as a "short cut."

As far as taking short cuts, the worst example of that I saw was 2000 when Nimblewill Nomad gave me a ride to USFS42 and walked the 0.9 miles to Springer and back with me. When we got to the parking lot, there was a father and his 2 sons getting out of a shuttle and started north from there. This puzzled us so we talked to the shuttle driver who told us that they were planning to thru hike but said they didn't have the time to go to Springer so, against his recommendations, just headed north. Their very first decision on the A.T. was to skip what I would consider the most important part for a NOBO, the summit of Springer itself. BTW, I never did see them again and I sure they didn't stay in front of me or get far.

Mother Nature
02-28-2005, 11:06
When I was a librarian in GA, I was often referred patrons inquiring about local trails or plans to take long hikes on the AT. Here's my favorite goof-ball.

A male patron told me he was taking his cub scout son on the AT. He asked me for the list of hotels and motels along the way on the AT. He stressed that he planned "to complete the entire thing in two weeks." Since two weeks hiking GA was reasonable with a young scout, I assumed that was his quest. I told him about Neels Gap,the Blueberry Patch, the hitch to Helen etc. When I didn't go on he said "what about the other states?"

I apologized for assuming that he was spending his two weeks in GA and asked which section of the trail he was planning to visit. He looked at me crazy and shouted," I TOLD you. The entire trail. GA to ME!" :bse

When my jaw dropped, he said "people make the trail unnecessarily hard for themselves by deliberately carrying backpacks and sleeping gear. I just can't understand why people don't spend a little more money and stay at the hotels/motels provided at the end of each day." He insisted if you ate a good meal in the morning before you left and a good supper the night before when you arrived, the next days walk should be a breeze. "You can drive from GA to Maine in two days, why couldn't you walk the whole thing in two weeks! So 'just shut up', give me the list so I can make my hotel/motel reservations".

I tried to reason with him but he just got more indignant. I suggested he read a little more about the physical challenges of the trail and handed him some books from thruhikers detailing their journeys. He tossed them down and stomped off in disgust muttering something about "stupid women.. have to find someone who knows something about hiking". Oh well....................

Mother Nature

Lone Wolf
02-28-2005, 11:07
Walking or not walking the approach trail does not insure success or failure. Buncha baloney.

JP
02-28-2005, 11:37
Back to the origional question. Thats a tough call. I tend to leave people alone but... when hypothermia sets in you often arn't thinking right and may not ask for help. Maybe its better to get told off than leave someone to die without trying to help, remembering it's their right to not want help.
I think "what emergency equipment do you carry" would be a good topic.

DLANOIE
02-28-2005, 11:58
I dont know how someone with little to no hiking experience can think they could hike the whole trail. I have bagged almost every fourthousand footer in New England and Im still nervous about doing it! Whats up with these people???

The Old Fhart
02-28-2005, 12:04
DLANOIE-"I have bagged almost every fourthousand footer in New England and Im still nervous about doing it!" Hey, I've done the NE100 highest (in winter), lots of long distance hiking, and I'm still nervous until I get thru the first day or so.

AbeHikes
02-28-2005, 12:22
Back to the origional question. Thats a tough call. I tend to leave people alone but... when hypothermia sets in you often arn't thinking right and may not ask for help. Maybe its better to get told off than leave someone to die without trying to help, remembering it's their right to not want help.
I think "what emergency equipment do you carry" would be a good topic.
I was really torn on this one, but I was initially in shorts and wasn't nearly hypothermic. He looked like the Michelin Man in comparison. I thought he might be upset about the weather (or the climb), but I didn't get that he was in danger. We weren't even to the Len Foote Hike Inn when we crossed paths. I believe we were within site of the trailer and RV area for ASP from our hilltop.

I was just wondering how involved the hiker community gets on this sort of thing. Trying to gauge it for future long hikes...

Jaybird
02-28-2005, 12:42
I have personally seen several people quit on the Approach Trail without ever seeing one white blaze. I've also seen folks returning to Amicalola/Springer or quitting at USFS 42, after hiking less than a day.Thru-hiking isn't for everyone.



I guess this is why (approx) 30% of hikers that start SPRINGER are off the TRAIL by NEELS GAP/Walasi Yi Center only 30 miles later.

Jack Tarlin
02-28-2005, 20:42
Wolf is most likely correct....whether or not you do the Approach Trail almost certainly has no bearing on the rest of your trip, and skipping it certainly doesn't decrease your chances of completing the Trail.

That being said, I think doing the Approach Trail is a very positive experience for most people. The A.T. is NOT easy, despite what some folks would have you believe. And the Approach Trail is quite a challenge for most folks: They're not in tip-top shape yet, they're most likely carrying too much food. clothing, and gear. Even at 8.8 miles, it's a solid day for most folks, and this is as good thing: The sooner folks get used to solid days out there, the better. Plus, they get the good feeling one always gets when reaching the top of a tough climb.

I think then, that the Approach Trail is a good thing for folks to do, tho of course, it's not required. I also think it's cool to stay up there after the slog up to the top, and starting your thru-hike from Springer first thing in the morning. Lastly, I think Springer deserves the same "respect" as Katahdin, and deserves to be climbed all the way up, rather than going up from the Forest service road, backtracking a mile, and "tagging" the top before retracing one's steps North. This has always struck me as something of a candy-ass way to hike up a mountain, even on the occasions when I did in fact elect to skip the Approach Trail myself, which I've skipped several times.

Finally, tho, I think there's something to be said for IMMEDIATELY coming to grips with the fact that the Trail is going to a constant daily challenge, and some days will be tougher than others. I think that folks who from the very outset of their trips seek to find ways to cut corners or make it easier for themselves are going to adopt that mindset at each and every opportunity, on every day of their trips, and I'm not sure this is a healthy thing: There will soon come a day on the Trail where it will NOT be possible to cut corners or take the easy way out. There will be times where you HAVE to hike in poor weather, or hike a really rough section, or hike further than you want, or hike when you're hurt, or when you don't want to hike at all. Hikers that have previously established a mindset of always seeking out the easiest and least challenging course will be at a disadvantage when they're confronted with circumstances or events that have to be gutted out, and not done "the easy way." Therefore, I thinking hiking the Approach Trail is a very healthy thing to do from a psychological standpoint. It's the start of your hiking trip, your first mountain, and your first real challenge. You'll feel great after finishing this challenge, and I think feeling great on your first night out is a very healthy way to start the trip. Sneaking up the backside of Springer to tag a plaque and sign the guestbook might be the simpler way to go, but I think it potentially sets an unhealthy precedent, and is hardly something you can acknowlesdge as any kind of "accomplishment". You've made a much easier day for yourself, but in the end, I'm not sure you've gained that much: Sooner or later, you're NOT going to be able to cut corners and take the lazy man's route, and the sooner folks realize this, the better off they'll be.

Now all that being said, remember that there's not one white blaze on the Approach Trail. It's NOT the A.T. You're not skipping or cheating if you decide not to hike it, and you're not hurting your trip's completion chances if you elect to skip it. Like so many other things on the Trail, what you do here is up to the individual hiker, and that's always a good thing.

ed bell
02-28-2005, 23:37
It's funny how threads tend to hop around, I think this one got cross wired with the approach trail thread. I suddenly felt more confused than normal.:banana

Teatime
03-01-2005, 03:10
I probably would have left the guy alone also but it sounds like one of those things where you had to be there in order to really know.
Let me first say that before starting my 1st section hike, I had done several weekend trips so I wasn't totally unaware of what to expect. Now, to my Approach Trail experience. There are several signs posted near the beginning of the Approach Trail that use the word "STRENUOUS" and they aren't kidding. Since I was trying to get the entire AT experience from my 1st Section Hike, I wanted to start at what seemed to be the traditional beginning. Once I got to the top of Springer, exhausted, I set up camp, (couldn't use the shelter, a bunch of partiers had hiked in a few cases of beer and had completely taken it over) ate my dinner and then promptly puked it back up. Being the consciencious outdoorsman that I am, I didn't want to puke on the ground and attract bears with my undigested Lipton Noodle dinner smell so I pulled out a 1 gallon ziplock bag and puked in it. I packed that puke out to the first trash can I came across, thank you very much. As if that wasn't bad enough, a Thunderstorm blew in after I had gotten sick and really worked the mountain over. Thankfully my MSR Zoid 1 tent was up to the challenge and I didn't get wet or electricuted. That night, as I tried to sleep in my weakened state, I decided I was just going to go back down the mountain and head home the next day. The funny thing is, when I woke up the next morning, the Sun was shining and it was a perfect day for hiking. It's amazing how your perspective can change in just a few hours. I felt much better and was excited about hiking again. That first day and night toughened me and gave me confidence for the entire week. I wouldn't say the rest of my hike was easy but I never thought of quitting again and knew I would make it.

hipo
03-01-2005, 11:07
though Im just a distant hiker I have seen thru the years all kinds on the trails bodybuilders,karete instructers,military spec.ect,ect,ect,when it comes to hiking you seem to find out If you like it or not in a certain amount of days,some just have bad days and rebound from their experience and some just quit and go back to society:dance Hipo

Brushy Sage
03-01-2005, 14:49
Is it true or a myth that someone bailed near the start of the AT and left a full backpack with a note to take whatever you want?