Blue blaze questions

[Dainon]

I'll probably get an award for the dumbest question of the month, but I'll ask anyway: just what is a blue-blaze trail?

It's my understanding that a blue-blaze trail is one that intersects the white-blazed AT such that it serves as something of a shortcut. Fair enough, but:

1. Are blue-blaze trails actually designated with blue blazes? How does one know if the blue-blaze trail would actually intersect the white-blazed AT as opposed to being, say, just a trail leading toward a scenic overlook or something similar? I've looked at the maps from Springer to Damascus fairly closely, and I don't see many trails at all that one could consider to be a blue-blaze trail. Are they not indicated on trail maps?

2. Is there posted information that would indicate how far it is from, say, one shelter to the next by comparing the white-blazed AT to the blue-blazed trail?

3. I'm looking at an AT map (Great Smoky Mountains National Park, National Geographic) and, for example, rather than following the white-blazed AT from Fontana Dam to Spence Field shelter, it looks as if one co uld take the Lakeshore trail north to intersect the Eagle Creek trail, which leads almost directly to Spence Field shelter. That route looks to be much more direct, thus would that be an example of a blue blaze?

[Lion King]

Some are indeed blazed with blue blazes. The same shape and size as a white one, but blue.

Some do appear on maps as High water routes, or shortcuts, or The Original AT, a lot of them dont.

Some are marked really well, some are not marked at all...and by that I mean the trails are older, overgrown more, have a ton of blowdowns, and are almost wilderness again...which is fun, interesting and a little more challenging.

There is less traffic, less litter, more water, Way More Wildlife and one thing I will say about them is this...everyone assumes they are easier then the regular AT...not always true.

Some are longer and more difficult, but that varies.

I could have just let Lone Wolf answer this one.

[Lone Wolf]

You did just fine Grasshopper. :)

[The Weasel]

This highlights one of the major problems with how AT hikers consider maps.

In my experience, the "official" AT maps are nearly useless, having only slightly more utility than the gas-station road maps that were used in the First Thru Hike. They are very large scale, and show, at best, the approximate routing of the trail as a result. They show few natural features, and to call them a "topo" is essentially an insult to the 1:50,000 "quads" that backpackers have loved for decades.

When I started my thru hike in 2000, I got the Maptech "ATC Official CD Topo" set, which had the ENTIRE Trail, and the ENTIRE set of books, on CD-ROMS, which had NOTHING in common with the ATC maps. They were the 1:50,000 quads on 'puter, and I could (and did) print them onto plain paper, which covered usually about 5-9 miles of Trail. I'd carry the section I was walking between mail drops, and my son sent the next section to me each time.

These maps showed ALL topo features, including buildings, side trails (as known at the time of the last USGS map update, which was a lot!), minor dirt roads and more. They essentially kept me on the trail when I had a post-surgical hernia pain near Hiawassee, and showed me an unmarked road close to the Trail, from which I got to a main road (and a hitch) easily.

Moreover, I could easily compute any distance (since 1 inche was 2000') just by using my index finger (from 1st joint to second is basically 1" on anyone), including side trails.

Since the cost of the CD ROMS was LESS than the books and the maps, it's a bargain, even throwing in the price of printing. Oh yeah...profiles were available, even several hundred PICTURES including every shelter on the trail!

The Weasel

[Footslogger]

When I started my thru hike in 2000, I got the Maptech "ATC Official CD Topo" set, which had the ENTIRE Trail, and the ENTIRE set of books, on CD-ROMS
====================================
Hey Weasel ...you remember what that entire AT Maptech set cost ??

Thanks,

'Slogger

[Youngblood]

Weasel,

You are exaggerating about the shelter photos on the MapTech ATC data/map CD's, they only have photos of some of the shelters... and there are lots of other neat photos at various locations along the trail that are keyed to that location when you scroll the maps.

They include both the 1:24,000 scale (also called 7.5 minute series) and the 1:100,000 scale topo maps. If you select the UTM grid when you go to print them out, it will print the UTM grid on the maps. This will overlay a 1 km (0.62 miles) grid on the 1:24,000 scale maps which helps a lot when estimating mileage or using a GPS receiver to locate your position. Try it if you ever print them out again, I think you will like it better that way.

Youngblood

[Spirit Walker]

Most of the trails off the AT are blue-blazed - they can lead to a shelter, to water, to a view or to an alternate route. There are, however, other alternate trails that have other colors - i.e. the yellow horse trails in the Shenandoahs or the many trails in Grayson Highlands.

Some hikers make a game out of finding alternate routes to the AT. In 1992 I read in the registers about the AAT Society - the Alternative AT hikers. I knew others who just got creative with a map and guidebook. (One of the problems of not carrying guidebooks is you have no idea where the side trails lead - is it .25 to water, or 10 miles to a highway?) The Smokies are a good place for playing that game, or the Shenandoahs, where the side trails may lead to waterfalls, rivers, rock scrambles, etc. Not all those trails will be blazed blue and many of them are both longer and more difficult than the official trail. But they can be a lot more interesting too. There are some blue blazed trails that are "legal" shortcuts - around an exposed rock section or a high water route, for example. Others are ways of cutting off a few miles. In some places, the AT was rerouted to avoid towns, dropping you off on a highway a few miles away. The old blue-blazed trails into town still exist - i.e. Monson and Gorham. To me, taking those routes was more practical/smart than trying to hitch into and out of town.

Those of us who enjoy blue-blazing enjoy the creative aspect of it - we pick our routes, using our own criteria of scenary, practicality, etc. While some blueblazers are simply looking for an easier hike - some of us are more interested in having choices - making the hike unique. So we pay attention to where the side trails go, and why.

[orangebug]

3. I'm looking at an AT map (Great Smoky Mountains National Park, National Geographic) and, for example, rather than following the white-blazed AT from Fontana Dam to Spence Field shelter, it looks as if one co uld take the Lakeshore trail north to intersect the Eagle Creek trail, which leads almost directly to Spence Field shelter. That route looks to be much more direct, thus would that be an example of a blue blaze?I think that you would find the Eagle Creek Trail to be a steeper climb up to Spence Field Shelter, but equally fun and much more remote than the AT.

Yes, that is a good example of blue blazing and taking the more challenging route.

[The Weasel]

Youngblood---

I stand corrected, but sounds like you agree with me about how useful they are.

The Weasel

[Peaks]

In general, most trails that intersects the AT are blazed in blue. Frequently, it is from a road to the AT. And, as others have pointed out, a trail to an overlook, to a shelter, to a summit sometimes, a high water by pass, or a bad weather by pass are all blazed in blue.

And, then there are yellow blazes, brown blazes, and a whole rainbow. But, that's topic for another thread.

[Skyline]

I just received my order for maps and guidebooks of the Finger Lakes Trail in New York, which I'm hoping to hike a big part of this August. Do y'all know how spoiled we have become on the AT? Our worst maps are light years "better" than these, and we have some great maps in some places (PATC comes to mind).

FLT maps are basically black-toner photocopies on blue copy paper. Some are copies of topo maps, others are just rough sketches. The guidebooks are bare-bones descriptions, also photocopies of what appears to be reduced size typewritten sheets (remember typewriters?) in a spiral-bound format.

Not whining, I'm sure these will get me there, but just wanted to point out how good we have it on the AT.

[Youngblood]

Youngblood---

I stand corrected, but sounds like you agree with me about how useful they are.

The Weasel
Of course, I appreciate GOOD maps. So how many pages did you have to print out to get all of the AT?

Youngblood

[Frosty]

FLT maps are basically black-toner photocopies on blue copy paper. Some are copies of topo maps, others are just rough sketches. The guidebooks are bare-bones descriptions, also photocopies of what appears to be reduced size typewritten sheets (remember typewriters?) in a spiral-bound format.

Not whining, I'm sure these will get me there, but just wanted to point out how good we have it on the AT.Lots of less popular long trails have this fault. Coupled with bad maps, expect poor/missing blazes, also.

A GPS in great for hiking these trails with a little advance prep. Find a key point every few miles. A summit, a stream crossing, road crossing or better yet road junction, any place you can pinpoint on a good topo map. Then make a GPS waypoint of it and label the waypoint AND the map with some system (A, B, C, etc).

Then, when you hopelessly lose the trail, or find that a brand-new housing development has squatted on the trail, whip out the GPS and guide yourself to the next waypoint. You may miss a bit of the trail, but you will be back on course. (You could, if you wanted, once youk reached the GPS point, backtrack along the trail to see how you went wrong. I have yet to be that anal, so someday I'll hike the Mass bay Circuit Trail clockwise. The trail is about 200 miles, and I bet I was off-trail for at least of quarter of that on a counter clockwise hike.

[Spirit Walker]

We ran into the brand new housing development in the middle of the trail when we hiked the Horseshoe Trail in PA. Unfortunately, we were doing a key exchange and the exchange point/lunch break was right in the middle of the area where the new houses were built. Naturally, we picked different routes around the houses and missed each other completely. By that time though, we had learned to each carry a set of car keys, just in case. (Nothing like meeting your partner, and forgetting to hand the keys over!) But when I got to the pick up point and didn't find my husband, I was worried, because I hadn't seen him at all that day and didn't know where in the previous 14 miles he might be. Fortunately he wandered up a half hour later, but it was a worry, and one of the last of our key exchanges.

[Doctari]

on trail maps?

3. I'm looking at an AT map (Great Smoky Mountains National Park, National Geographic) and, for example, rather than following the white-blazed AT from Fontana Dam to Spence Field shelter, it looks as if one co uld take the Lakeshore trail north to intersect the Eagle Creek trail, which leads almost directly to Spence Field shelter. That route looks to be much more direct, thus would that be an example of a blue blaze?

Get the book from the smokies on the trails there. The profile map of the lakeshore trail is fairly level, HOWEVER, the eagle creek trail is rather steep, and if memory serves, has many somewhat dangerous stream (read small river) crossings. One of the campsites (must stay at designated sites in GSMNP) is on a small island, a small LOW island. Can't go to toilet anywhere on island :( and it may flood while you are there.

I to have thought of taking this "blue blaze" side trip, and may do so when I thru in a few years, specially as I already did the white blazes thru the smokies. But I thought you should be aware of the potential problems.

Doctari.

[weary]

Get the book from the smokies on the trails there. The profile map of the lakeshore trail is fairly level, HOWEVER, the eagle creek trail is rather steep, and if memory serves, has many somewhat dangerous stream (read small river) crossings. One of the campsites (must stay at designated sites in GSMNP) is on a small island, a small LOW island. Can't go to toilet anywhere on island :( and it may flood while you are there.
I to have thought of taking this "blue blaze" side trip, and may do so when I thru in a few years, specially as I already did the white blazes thru the smokies. But I thought you should be aware of the potential problems.
Doctari.
I have taken the Lake shore trail and one of the blue blazed trails that head back to the AT. I enjoyed the evidence of the old farms and old cars rusting away.

But the trail I had planned to use to get back to AT was almost impassible, so after a mile I backtracked, crossed a swollen stream and headed back up on a second trail, which was quite good. I camped at a site mostly used by horse users, but it was pleasant -- and probably illegal since I had no permit. I think though that it came in north of Spence Field.

Anyway, my advice is to check with rangers to learn the condition of some of the trails in the park. At least then some of the "least traveled by" are not good choices.

BTW Weasel. I don't believe Maptech has upgraded its maps and literature since the original came out many years ago. I'm not even sure it's even being still sold. I couldn't quickly find it on the Maptech web site.

And I question whether printing maps for a thru hike saves much if any money. Color printing cartridges are expensive. And mine at least smudge badly with the first drop of water.

I had no real problem with the ATC maps, though the quality varies widely. I thought Maine had the best. Remember also that ATC and the clubs make quite a bit of money from the sale of maps and guides. MATC plans on a steady $25,000 a year from such sales. It's around 17 percent or so of our total annual budget. Maptech was supposed to pay us a percentage once their sales reach a break even point. I read our financial reports fairly closely. I don't remember ever seeing any significant influx of Maptech money.

Weary