Brr! Cold weather tips?

[Paisley1985]

I'm a fairly newish hiker/backpacker and I'm a big weenie when it comes to being chilly. I'm pretty small (ie no added insulation) and get cold really easily. I hate that this holds me back for camping when the weather starts to get cooler. I have a Northface Cats Meow women sythetic mummy bag with at 20 degree rating but even fully dressed (thermals, pants sweater etc) I just get too cold to sleep. I've thought about getting a liner but think I would just tangle my feet in it, and haven't heard that they do much good anyway. Any other ideas for staying warm when you're a skinny girl? I know there is a lot of gear out there but I'm worried about added wieght in my pack since I also hike with my dog and carry items for her. I've thought about getting a second sleeping bag to put inside mine... thoughts?

Thanks! Paisley

[The Cleaner]

How about going with a 5-10 degree rated DOWN bag.It should weigh less and will keep you much warmer.Winter camping requires better and more expensive gear.When you go out in winter you must have the right gear or you will be cold and end up bailing after one night...

[Jim Adams]

I would just bite the bullit and get a down 0* bag and before going to sleep, fill a nalgene with hot water and put it in your bag with you. This combo should get you comfortable no matter how thin you are.

geek

[sixhusbands]

Try getting a good zero degree bag and wear less clothing. The whole idea of the bag is to reflect your own body heat. When you pile on the clothes you counter that process. You need to be brave at first but you just might find out that less clothes are better. I can get by with my shorts, a light t shirt and a ski hat in most cold nights ( -25 was the coldest).

good luck

[mirabela]

I'll second the hot water bottle at the feet. It makes a world of difference. Also, when it's below freezing, consider a VBL (vapor barrier) liner. They're light, they don't cost much, and they extend the comfort range of a bag by 10 or 15 degrees easy.

[ekeverette]

i'm like you... damn cold when its 60 degrees.... but when your humping it you get warm... but i can't change my 20 degree bag.... hoping someone will give advice on some type of light weight clothing to wear at camp and to bed... i'm with you. thin blood... should be my trail name!

[Papa D]

Ditto on the hot water bottle - also, stay hydrated and eat a bunch of carbs BUT make sure you go to sleep on an empty bladder - you will keep warmer if your body doesn't also have to keep the pee warm.

[Paisley1985]

thanks Papa D - I think I remember you telling me about urinating before going to sleep (we met on the AT during the summer). I like the hot water bottle idea too.. so lighter clothes is better eh? I'll keep these tips in mind (buying a new sleeping bag right now is not an option) and let you guys know how it goes. I will be hiking all next week in Shenadoah, a bit worried about the weather!

[Bati]

Try wearing more clothes on your head- specifically an expedition-weight balaclava. This helps keeps more than just your head and neck warm, as you can loose a lot of warmth even with the hood up all the way. Toss a pair of long johns in the bottom of the bag and put your feet in them. This helps your feet dry out from being in wet snowy boots all day and adds some warmth without the constriction of socks. Papa D is correct, and when you have to pee in the middle of the night, get up immediately and go (if you don't have to, you're probably not sufficiently hydrated). As I lost weight, I found that eating (or- gross- drinking) some extra olive oil right before bed helped me stay warm. And make sure you've changed your clothes before bed so that the accumulated sweat doesn't make you colder.

[SassyWindsor]

Try hiking the Florida Trail first.

[Snowleopard]

I have a Northface Cats Meow women sythetic mummy bag with at 20 degree rating but even fully dressed (thermals, pants sweater etc) I just get too cold to sleep. I've thought about getting a liner ... I've thought about getting a second sleeping bag to put inside mine... thoughts?

Thanks! Paisley
I'm not sure what the temps will be down there, between 20 and 30 on a cold night?

Liner: a silk liner doesn't add much insulation.

Your bag is rated to 34F for comfort for an average woman, http://www.rei.com/product/807887/the-north-face-cats-meow-sleeping-bag-womens

Are you using a foam pad or insulated air mattress? Be sure to have good insulation under you, at least a full length foam pad. If it'll be much below 20F consider two pads or put extra clothes and your pack underneath you.
Wearing extra DRY clothes inside your sleeping bag will be warmer if there's room to do so without compressing the insulation of clothes or bag. Using one sleeping bag inside another works if you can do it without compressing either's insulation too much.

The hot water bottle idea works, but it'll probably cool off in the middle of the night. Wrap it up in insulation like a sock or you'll burn yourself.

You could improve the rating by wrapping yourself in a fleece blanket inside the sleeping bag, but the blanket will be bulky to carry. If you have a light down quilt, it'll work better than fleece.

Eat a candy bar and do a bit of exercise before you get into the bag.

[Tipi Walter]

This topic has been covered extensively on previous WB threads but dangit good luck on finding them as the Search function is all screwed up since 2011 comes in fairly good but you'll blank out on finding Winter Backpacking threads from 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, or 2005.

[Smooth & Wasabi]

I know that conventional wisdom has always said that more clothes is bad because it equals less dead air space. My anectdotal experience is that it has more to do with the amount of extra room you have in your bag. If I am in a tight bag just a baselayer may be the warmest option so I don't compress insulation. However I find that if there is room to accomodate extra clothing without compromising the insulation it is extra warm to wear clothes. If you have too much room it is hard to even warm up the bag. I have seen this several times with cold sleepers whose bag is too long and their feet are cold. I got a montbell ultralight super spiral partly for this reason. It provides the optimal amount of airspace both with and without bulky layers.

[Gaiter]

This may sound weird, but have you tried sleeping with just a skin tight thermal layer on, basically a sleeping bag works by capturing the heat from your body, and keeping that heat around you, but if you have too many clothes on its less of a pocket of air to warm up and more heat escapes from the bag (kinda like how you need a sleeping pad because the sleeping bag doesn't do much for warmth when its compressed under your body)
I had a hard time getting around the concept at first but it does work.
when its time for a gear upgrade go for a down bag as well, soooo much warmer
warm water bottle and hat are good tricks too

[joshuasdad]

Shenandoah does get cold at night (snowed on me on October 1). But, lodging at Skyland was nice and warm, and the taproom did not hurt either. I would definitely bring more than that synthetic 20F bag.

I am trying a Neoair pad + 20 F Therm-a-rest down "bag" (backless, works with pad) + silk liner + light wearable (Sierra Stealth) down quilt (doubles as down vest). Probably could get down to 0-10 F with that set-up, with the quilt inside of the bag, or possibly on top. I like the liner, adds maybe 5-10F, keeps the bag clean, and can be used by itself on warm nights.

In short, consider a layer system -- which might be good for a cold sleeper like you -- but I make no warranties as I am still a bit of a noob. I think you will need an additional fleece/quilt as a minimum for the Shenandoahs, based on the forecast.

Have a great hike!

[Blissful]

I don't overnight backpack from Nov to Feb. Unless there's a stretch of mild weather. I hate being cold. That said, I find my 15 degree Montbell hugger with a silk liner to work well for the spring and fall. And a good tent. No shelters or hammocking. You also need a good pad underneath you and a good hat to wear all night.

[Jim Adams]

try a light wt balaclava, midweight wool base layer and dry wool socks, nothing else inside of your bag, good pad under you...if the bag is anywhere close to it's correct rating you should be fine.
I use a 0* down bag unzipped, feet in the toe box and pulled over me like a quilt laying directly on a 1 1/2" thermarest.
I am totally warm and comfortable down to about 10* with this set-up...but then again, I have alot of "natural insulation".lol
Also if you sleep in a small tent, the inside temps will be 10-15* warmer than outside.

geek

[Wise Old Owl]

I really like Gaiters post here... I rarely land in the woman's forum. but this has to be said because you left out some detail in the first post. You do need a tight layer with micro fleese (no name brand Under Armour factor)

Polypropylene is a major polymer used in non wovens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonwovens), with over 50% used for diapers or sanitary products where it is treated to absorb water (hydrophilic) rather than naturally repelling water (hydrophobic). Other interesting non-woven uses include filters for air, gas, and liquids in which the fibers can be formed into sheets or webs that can be pleated to form cartridges or layers that filter in various efficiencies in the 0.5 to 30 micrometre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometre) range.(smaller than human hair) Such applications could be seen in the house as water filters or air-conditioning-type filters. The high surface area and naturally oleophilic polypropylene nonwovens are ideal absorbers of oil spills with the familiar floating barriers near oil spills on rivers.

In New Zealand, in the US military, and elsewhere, polypropylene, or 'polypro' (New Zealand 'polyprops'), has been used for the fabrication of cold-weather base layers, such as long-sleeve shirts or long underwear (More recently, polyester has replaced polypropylene in these applications in the U.S. military, such as in the ECWCS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Cold_Weather_Clothing_System) [17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polypropylene#cite_note-16)). Polypropylene is also used in warm-weather gear such as some Under Armour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_Armour) clothing, which can easily transport sweat away from the skin. Although polypropylene clothes are not easily flammable, they can melt, which may result in severe burns if the service member is involved in an explosion or fire of any kind. Polypropylene undergarments are known for retaining body odors which are then difficult to remove. The current generation of polyester does not have this disadvantage.



Quite frankly - folks hate that - think about where you draw the line in the weather. so lets say 36 degrees is way too cold for you... so look ahead and dont do it. Grab a bag and sleep on a pad of your choice with a memory thermometer that remembers the low and the high - easy to pick up at Walmart - in the garden section - the one with the suction cup. sleep this December in the backyard..... Yea its stupid - but you are by yourself... and nobody needs to know. And it works....

Always test your gear before you go out.

Minds advancing hiking........

[10-K]

May I recommend the Blackrock down beanie and Goosefeet down booties. Very nice to wear when you're in your bag.

[Paisley1985]

Wow what a lot of information! So far the weather says we're looking at 40's for lows at night. A have a thermarest but it isn't full length (mistake I know!) Unfortunately cash is a big holdback for me being better prepped but maybe a balaclava and some booties will be worth the cash. I do wish I could manage a test run - hopefully I can just bear through it!

[10-K]

If you have one close by, go to an Army surplus store. You can get some warm stuff (lots of wool) for cheap.

I particularly like the wool watch caps which keeps my head warm even when it's wet. Usually $2-$3 each. I have a drawer full of them.. (well, maybe 5.. ).

[Gaiter]

Wow what a lot of information! So far the weather says we're looking at 40's for lows at night. A have a thermarest but it isn't full length (mistake I know!) Unfortunately cash is a big holdback for me being better prepped but maybe a balaclava and some booties will be worth the cash. I do wish I could manage a test run - hopefully I can just bear through it!

another trick i do for the feet, is if you have a down jacket or vest, lay it over the feet area of your sleeping bag, it helps too

[foreversuperawesome]

get a colder rating sleeping bag, and eat high fat foot before bed. Bring hand warmers too, pop a few in the bottom of your sleeping bag. Worked for me in 0 degree weather.

[Snowleopard]

... A have a thermarest but it isn't full length (mistake I know!) Unfortunately cash is a big holdback for me being better prepped but maybe a balaclava and some booties will be worth the cash. ... This is year old thread, but as TipiWalter says this comes up a lot.

You need insulation underneath your whole body, but that doesn't need to be your mattress. You can put extra clothes or your pack under your feet or as a pillow. A nice way to do it is to bring a short length of foam pad (cheap at walmart) for your feet and also as a warm seat when sitting on cold ground for lunch.

When it's really cold you need two layers of insulation underneath you, a thermarest plus full length foam pad. You shouldn't need this above about 20F.

[BCPete]

My wife is extremely cold blooded, and we live/backpack primarily in the northern Canadian Rockies (Jasper, and into BC). Most nights are right around freezing - even during the height of summer because we tend to be at higher elevations then.

Here's what she needs to be comfortable (this is her standard 3 season gear for sleeping - July/August included):
Western Mountaineering Lynx Sleeping Bag
Exped Down Mat 7
Shirt - Patagonia Capilene 2 Lightweight Crew
Shirt - Patagonia Capilene 3 Midweight Crew
Jacket - Patagonia R2 Jacket (Fleece)
Long Underwear - Patagonia Capilene 4 Expedition Weight Bottoms
Marmot Precip Rain Pants
Balaclava - Outdoor Research Sonic Balaclava
Toque - Outdoor Research Transcendent Beanie
Gloves - MEC Windpro 2 Gloves (Fleece)
Socks - Wigwam Ultimax Hiking/Outdoor Pro Crew (#F6077)
Socks - MEC Polar Feet Fleece Socks

This is what she wears to bed just to stay relatively comfortable - and some nights it still takes awhile for her to warm up.

Oh ... on top of this we also sleep in a Bibler Eldorado Tent - which is essentially wind proof. If she feels the slightest breeze during the night, she will get cold. Any standard three season tent with mesh walls is a tough for most nights because of the wind.

My advice if you're in a similar boat is to spend the money and get the gear - otherwise you'll never be happy with the quality of your sleep, and then you won't be happy with backpacking.

We're planning for AT 2015 - leaving in late Feb or March 1. The gear above is what she will be starting out with (substitute for the tent only) - until we get a better handle on what temps you folks have down in GA that time of year.

[Tipi Walter]

My wife is extremely cold blooded, and we live/backpack primarily in the northern Canadian Rockies (Jasper, and into BC). Most nights are right around freezing - even during the height of summer because we tend to be at higher elevations then.

Here's what she needs to be comfortable (this is her standard 3 season gear for sleeping - July/August included):
Western Mountaineering Lynx Sleeping Bag
Exped Down Mat 7
Shirt - Patagonia Capilene 2 Lightweight Crew
Shirt - Patagonia Capilene 3 Midweight Crew
Jacket - Patagonia R2 Jacket (Fleece)
Long Underwear - Patagonia Capilene 4 Expedition Weight Bottoms
Marmot Precip Rain Pants
Balaclava - Outdoor Research Sonic Balaclava
Toque - Outdoor Research Transcendent Beanie
Gloves - MEC Windpro 2 Gloves (Fleece)
Socks - Wigwam Ultimax Hiking/Outdoor Pro Crew (#F6077)
Socks - MEC Polar Feet Fleece Socks

This is what she wears to bed just to stay relatively comfortable - and some nights it still takes awhile for her to warm up.

Oh ... on top of this we also sleep in a Bibler Eldorado Tent - which is essentially wind proof. If she feels the slightest breeze during the night, she will get cold. Any standard three season tent with mesh walls is a tough for most nights because of the wind.

My advice if you're in a similar boat is to spend the money and get the gear - otherwise you'll never be happy with the quality of your sleep, and then you won't be happy with backpacking.

We're planning for AT 2015 - leaving in late Feb or March 1. The gear above is what she will be starting out with (substitute for the tent only) - until we get a better handle on what temps you folks have down in GA that time of year.

Thanks for posting this 3 season list for someone cold blooded. I too feel the cold more as I get older and my winter list is similar to her 3 season list---

WM Puma sleeping bag
Exped downmat 9
Shirt---Icebreaker 260 zipneck thumbhole merino top
Shirt---Icebreaker 320 merino top over the 260.
Jacket---Feathered Friends Icefall parka---sounds overkill with 15oz of goose down but keeps me alive on long trips.
Long Underwear---Icebreaker midweight merino bottoms.
OR goretex rainpants.
Balaclava---Icebreaker merino.
Toque---Turtle Fur fleece.
Gloves---Two pair $5 walmart fleece.
Socks---Two pair Smartwool Mountaineering---thickest they make.

PLUS my Arcteryx goretex rain jacket literally keeps me alive in terrible conditions i.e. butt cold rains at 35F.

[fizz3499]

If you can afford it buy a military issue 3 piece sleep system rated extreme cold and sleep with only bra and panties or less. You can pick one up used it excellent condition from and army surplus for around 160 . I am like you and get cold very easily also, My son who is in the army recommeded this to me it works great. An added bonus is since its a 3 piece system you can take wamer parts out when its hot. It was hard to believe it would be warmer sleeping in only underware but I tested it myself. I froze when I had clothes on and felt much warmer when I slept without them.

[Country Roads]

For a shorter hike, try using toe heaters/foot/body warmer packs. They are not reusable, but they have saved my butt a few times. If I can keep my feet and legs warm, my body usually stays warm. Wear a hat, even if you use the sleeping bag hood. Use a neck gaiter, it will warm the air you are breathing and help keep moisture out of your sleeping bag. Be sure to have enough insulation under you. A regular neoair and many other pads are only rated to 30 degrees, so will most likely keep you comfortable to 40 degrees. Are you using a tent? I ask because you will sleep warmer in a tent than in one of the shelters. Eat something high in protein and fat right before bedtime. Your body will generate a lot of heat while digesting them, so you will start you night warm. It is easier to stay warm than get warm. Yes, peeing whenever you need to will also help.

[minda]

Have you seen Columbia's omni-heat? I was checking it out today. It looks interesting. Columbia has a down vest with omni-heat on sale for $49.

[hikingshoes]

minda, I picked up a pair of those pants last week.The fit is good,but don't know if I can hike in them due to being to hot,but I'll see March 08. On the sleeping bag,Im a cold sleeper too. On my last hike it was 22*-27* at night and I use my marmot helium membrain 850 fill along with my base layer and dry socks/goose dwon booties. I got warm all over but my feet!!!!I took my Down jacket put it inside over my feet,still cold,so I chg the down jacket out and put my fleece jacket inside my bag and around my feet,with in 10mins i was VERY warm the rest of the night.

[minda]

I saw the pants yesterday at gander mountain & wondered how they would work. I loved the down jacket I tried on, but I'm not looking for a jacket. I saw that they have the sleeping bags with the omni-heat. Anyone try one f those? I'd feel like a baked potato.

[elkie-girl]

I'm a fairly newish hiker/backpacker and I'm a big weenie when it comes to being chilly. I'm pretty small (ie no added insulation) and get cold really easily. I hate that this holds me back for camping when the weather starts to get cooler. I have a Northface Cats Meow women sythetic mummy bag with at 20 degree rating but even fully dressed (thermals, pants sweater etc) I just get too cold to sleep. I've thought about getting a liner but think I would just tangle my feet in it, and haven't heard that they do much good anyway. Any other ideas for staying warm when you're a skinny girl? I know there is a lot of gear out there but I'm worried about added wieght in my pack since I also hike with my dog and carry items for her. I've thought about getting a second sleeping bag to put inside mine... thoughts?

Hi Paisley, I don't know you or how you do it, therefore forgive me if what I say is absolute basics. First and foremost have dry clothes for the night. No matter how dry it appears to be, if you hiked in your clothes during the day and than was sitting through the evening, it's probably damp. For that reason, wearing your outer layers also might be counterproductive. Put a solid clothed cell pad (Walmart has them for $7 - blue rolls in camping section) under. Warm up before you go to bed and definitely get some hearty food (hiking is not a place to count calories). If it's not too cold when you just get into bed, open it up (to prevent moisture build up in your bag) - and it should not be too cold just when you get into it. Don't breath inside the bag. Cover your head with a beanie, or some kind of hat (or some sleeping bags have hoodie)

I think having a bivvy around your sleeping bag (or cover it from outside with your jacket, or roll into a tarp / space blanket) would add a lot to sleeping rating - if there's no wind, there's no wind chill. Another non-breathable layer inside your bag (emergency bag) will make it even warmer (but you might get wet, so there're pros and cons of using it).

Also, you've mentioned your bag is rated for 20F. This is "survival" rating, the "comfort" rating is most likely somewhere 32F. These ratings are for men, most women tend to need more, so treat 32F as "survival" and expect to see comfort at 40F+.

And make sure your tent is not mesh, or at least have a full rain fly which can reach to the ground. Otherwise, wind will take all the warmth generated by you. Make sure your tent isn't too big - if you sleep alone in the tent, don't carry 4-persons tent, it'll be just too big to warm up at night.

[Hot Flash]

If you can afford it buy a military issue 3 piece sleep system rated extreme cold and sleep with only bra and panties or less. You can pick one up used it excellent condition from and army surplus for around 160 . I am like you and get cold very easily also, My son who is in the army recommeded this to me it works great. An added bonus is since its a 3 piece system you can take wamer parts out when its hot. It was hard to believe it would be warmer sleeping in only underware but I tested it myself. I froze when I had clothes on and felt much warmer when I slept without them.

Just be aware that the military sleeping bag system weighs about twelve pounds.

[2014hopeful]

Elkie is right. The cats meow is rated at 20, but the comfort rating is 34. You can look at the specs on REIs website. Always use the EN comfort rating when purchasing a new bag. It's much more accurate. Marmot, North Face, Sierra Designs, and some others will always rate. I have yet to see Big Agnes with EN ratings and that makes me afraid to buy one.