View Full Version : Smokies in winter
Anyone got a bag degree rating recommended for the Smokies in winter? Looking to do a December/January Smokies hike. Also, would crampons or snowshoes be required? Thanks.
Ironbelly
10-24-2011, 16:37
I went through the smokes in January, and saw temps down to 0 to -5F often not counting windchill. Snow ranged from 6inches to drifts of 4-5+ft. Snow really depends on the year. I would at a minimum plan on taking a traction aid such ad kahtoola microspikes, crampons are not neccesary. I had snowshoes with me and really liked having them along. I would take a 0F bag or below for sure, you have a good chance of being misserable if ou go with something higher than a 0F and dont have enough extra clothes to wear with it in a pinch.
Ironbelly
10-24-2011, 17:33
Jan 2001 that is
The basic winter smokies rig (which is also the same one for the NE) includes at least a zero degree down bag in weatherproof bag and a liner. You will obviously need capaline long underwear, a fleece or wool layer, a stocking cap, good gloves, a down jacket or down sweater and a shell for snow or (worse) cold / freezing rain. Surprisingly during the day, if it's in the 40s (which is often), you might be able to hike in stretchy leggings under shorts and a long sleeve tech-shirt (like a running top). I usually still wear smart wool socks under trail runners but I add gaiters, rain / snow pants, and YAKTRAX chains for my shoes up to about 6" of snow - this is a little pushy but I like it. If I know that the snow is going to be 6" I will go on to boots (mine are well broken in Scarpa Leather - the Italian Made ones.) If there is a foot of snow, I add MSR Snowshoes - Snowshoeing the trail is a lot of fun and can go nice and fast - post-holing the trail (I did the whole state of CT last winter without snowshoes - but with Yaktrax - is a big challenge. BTW, Northern Light Snowshoes are also popular. It goes without saying that your winter camping skills should be well-practiced. Have fun.
The Solemates
10-25-2011, 11:09
i routinely do winter hiking in the smokies.
0 degree bag is a minimum, along with a good inflatable air mattress (not a pad). staying in a tent rather than a shelter is warmer, although it is nice to hang out by the fire in a shelter, which also provides a windbreak and we usually have the shelter to ourselves. also hiking high but camping low is warmer. we tend to basecamp more in the winter in a valley and do 1-2 dayhikes up to and along the AT ridge from base, depending on weather and trip duration.
i never take snowshoes or yaktrax. consequently, i am often postholing. we had 3 feet (you read that right) one year. another year it approached -15 (you read that right as well).
be prepared!
Tipi Walter
10-25-2011, 11:35
I don't go out in the winter without my WM rated -15F down bag, along with my Exped downmat rated at 8R. Minimum 5R for a stand alone winter pad. I never carry snowshoes (who wants to carry the extra four lbs?) or microspikes, although the crampons would've saved my butt a hundred different times. Snowshoes are problematic in the "green tunnel" trails of the Southeast since snowload usually causes the tunnel to collapse and you end up with no real trail except one about 3 feet high for belly crawling. Snowshoes would not help.
As far as postholing on a ridge in three feet of snow, you have two options: Bring a snow shovel and dig out a ridge camp and sit tight for a week until the snow melts---I've done this several times. OR find an off-ridge side trail that drops 2 or 3,000 feet and get to lower ground with less snow and then continue your backpacking trip. In the Smokies there are plenty of bail off trails.
Thanks guys. I just wasn't sure about a bag. The one I've got now is 20 degrees, and has been fine on nights that have gotten into the 20's. I know it gets colder than that up on the ridgetops, I just wasn't sure how much lower. I hope to do a week or two hike, maybe do the entire length of the AT through the park. I've done it before, but that was early September. I just think it would be really cool to check out the AT from a different perspective, season wise.
Rain Man
10-28-2011, 10:41
Here's a link to a handy site with weather forecast (and recent history) for elevations above 5,000' in the GSMNP. I just led a hike up there the last two days and this link came in handy for our planning--
Forecast for high country elevations around 5,000ft (http://www.outragegis.com/weather/grsm/)
The forecast is at the top, but scroll down about half way for past 24-hour weather at Newfound Gap and LeConte. It also has some weather and radar maps.
One more thing, bag ratings are for "survival," not for "comfort" (to my knowledge). Two nights ago was at LeConte Shelter with some others; next day two (not in our group) complained of being cold. The over-night temps were in the 40s, their bags rated to 30. I didn't think to ask if they understood what ratings rate (nor if they had good pads under them, they slept on the top shelf). We were blessed with mostly clear skies and really mild temps for our two-day hike!
Rain:sunMan
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The Soulmates: "0 degree bag is a minimum, along with a good inflatable air mattress (not a pad). "
I'm assuming they (he/she?) mean an inflatable insulated mattress (like a Thermarest, for instance).
And "(not a pad)"?? I'm not quite sure what's being said here. A blue foam pad, even if you dispute how much padding it provides, will insulate quite nicely in cold weather. Try to obtain a 1/2" thick blue foam, or use 2 - 3/8" pads.
On top of snow, some body heat will still make it through the pads and soften the snow just enough that it will conform perfectly to your body's shape (if the snow's deep enough). I've tent camped on snow and find I sleep almost as well like this as I do in a hammock (and it's easier to stay warm).
Sometimes camping low is colder, as cold air sinks, but I wouldn't recommend camping above treeline unless you have a winter tent and strong snow anchors, so I agree (mostly) with the Soulmates' post. I'm not intending to be picky, but misread or misunderstood good information can be as harmful as bad information, especially on the topic of winter camping in the mountains.
I'd recommend to the OP that if he hasn't done that type of camping to bring along someone who has. My first winter experience in the White Mountains of NH was an eye-opener. I researched the subject of winter camping extensively, and, in retrospect, the fact that I (we, actually, I had a friend) survived was more luck than planning.
There's no research that can replace experience, so be careful and have a bailout plan (tell someone where you're going, carry a cell phone, keeping the battery warm, etc.) before you head out.
Be careful, and enjoy. Winter camping is, to me, perhaps the most beautiful aspect of hiking.
I have a bailout plan. I've got family that lives right in Wears Valley and who also hike. I'm quite familiar with the park and such, just wasn't too sure of the wintertime temps at night. Also, pitching a tent in snow, does one actually shovel the snow out of the way, to bare ground, or just pitch it on top of the snow?
Here's a link to a handy site with weather forecast (and recent history) for elevations above 5,000' in the GSMNP. I just led a hike up there the last two days and this link came in handy for our planning--
Forecast for high country elevations around 5,000ft (http://www.outragegis.com/weather/grsm/)
The forecast is at the top, but scroll down about half way for past 24-hour weather at Newfound Gap and LeConte. It also has some weather and radar maps.
One more thing, bag ratings are for "survival," not for "comfort" (to my knowledge). Two nights ago was at LeConte Shelter with some others; next day two (not in our group) complained of being cold. The over-night temps were in the 40s, their bags rated to 30. I didn't think to ask if they understood what ratings rate (nor if they had good pads under them, they slept on the top shelf). We were blessed with mostly clear skies and really mild temps for our two-day hike!
Rain:sunMan
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Thanks! I'm bookmarking this site now.
Dirty Nails
10-31-2011, 00:15
I have a bailout plan. I've got family that lives right in Wears Valley and who also hike. I'm quite familiar with the park and such, just wasn't too sure of the wintertime temps at night. Also, pitching a tent in snow, does one actually shovel the snow out of the way, to bare ground, or just pitch it on top of the snow?
I like to tamp down deep snow with snowshoes, or whatever you have with surface area. You can actually level a nice platform in it, and depress your 'platform' area a bit bellow surface level giving you a little wind protection. Tamping the snow will help prevent you from melting into it. Also dig out a step in front of your tent door for a nice spot to sit and put on your boots.
I also like to keep a plastic 'pee' bottle in the tent so I don't have to go outside at 3am. Use one different shape/size from your drinking bottle to prevent a mix-up in the dark!
Whiskyjo
10-31-2011, 01:47
We love winter backpacking in the Smokies but it's just no fun to be cold so both of us older folks have feathered friends -20 bags, exped downmat 9 pads and down booties for camp, plenty of layers, Climb Highs instep crampons, a bottle with the X marked on it so you don't mistake the one you drink out of verses well,, you'll figure it out, a couple of days of extra food just in case. Bring on the cold and let it snow. So far our coldest nite was at LeConte shelter at -12 and we were fine and used our crampons coming over from Icewater and down Alum cave.
I'm going to hike the whole park starting Friday - I hope to do it in 4 days - I do roll right along - if anyone wants to join me - should find some snow and cold temps but not January conditions -- I'll still have my 0 deg. bag and down jacket just for extra comfort ...
lissersmith
10-31-2011, 08:33
I would definitely take a zero rated bag. It can get bitterly cold in the winter, though at times, it can be mild. Crampons could be helpful on some of the trails that freeze over ( where the creek essentially runs down the trail). The A.T. should be fine without crampons.