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View Full Version : Mountain Lion Spotted in NH! Photo Taken with Game Camera



Buddman
10-24-2011, 17:51
My daughter's friends are hunters from the Peterborough NH area and this past weekend shared this photo they captured of a large Mountain Lion in one of there tree stand cameras.
The photo was taken near the Peterborough/Dublin NH line. This proves now that there are Mountain Lions in New England and by the size of this cat it has be
been eating "large".

gumball
10-24-2011, 18:58
Hope she hasn't been eating "large hikers"....

Jay_NJ
10-24-2011, 20:06
Reports on mountain lions all over the northeast, this is pretty neat with the confirmed photo. A friend of mine swears that he has seen mountain lion tracks and what he tells me often hears a "scream" they emit on the perimeter of his wooded propety in a rural portion of NJ.

hikerboy57
10-24-2011, 20:14
great! I can see the next new thread "how do i protect myself from mountain lions on the trail?"
awesome pic,but couldnt they get a little closer?

Lone Wolf
10-24-2011, 20:17
lotsa black "catamounts" in northern vermont. seen one some years back

Cookerhiker
10-24-2011, 20:42
I figured it's just a matter of time before one of the ATC's cameras in the megatransect project captures a panther on film.

tridavis
10-24-2011, 20:51
A friend of mine shot one robbing his chicken coup in Stoneville, NC. Near the southern mountains.

Kerosene
10-24-2011, 20:56
I saw one on the AT about 4 miles south of Harpers Ferry in October 2001.

tridavis
10-24-2011, 21:00
Friend of mine shot one back in the spring trying to rob his chicken coup. He lives in Stoneville, NC south of the mountains.

quilteresq
10-24-2011, 21:11
I saw one on our property on Cardigan Mt (about 20 miles east of Hanover) in 2009. Scariest thing in the world to see a cat without a cage between you and him. You didn't have to convince me. We set up a camera at the top of our property this summer with some catnip as bait, but never got a pic.

Send it to John Harrigan He's love to see it. He writes about cat sightings all the time in NH. John Harrigan's column appears in the New Hampshire Sunday News. His address is Box 39, Colebrook 035676. Email him at [email protected].

quilteresq
10-24-2011, 21:12
I saw one on our property on Cardigan Mt (about 20 miles east of Hanover) in 2009. &nbsp;Scariest thing in the world to see a cat without a cage between you and him. &nbsp;You didn't have to convince me. &nbsp; We set up a camera at the top of our property this summer with some catnip as bait, but never got a pic.&nbsp;<br><br>Send it to John Harrigan &nbsp;He's love to see it. &nbsp; He writes about cat sightings all the time in NH. &nbsp;<i style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">John Harrigan's column appears in the New Hampshire Sunday News. His address is Box 39, Colebrook 035676. Email him at [email protected].&nbsp;<br><span style="font-family:arial;"></span><br></i><span style="font-family:arial;"></span>

quilteresq
10-24-2011, 21:13
Oops - copied and pasted John Harrigan info from Union Leader website. Sorry.

. &nbsp;<i style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">John Harrigan's column appears in the New Hampshire Sunday News. His address is Box 39, Colebrook 035676. Email him at [email protected].&nbsp;<br><span style="font-family:arial;"></span><br></i><span style="font-family:arial;"></span>[/QUOTE]

OneStepCloser
10-24-2011, 21:26
im more worried about the ticks..... please these cats anit got NOTHING ON ME!@!! i do parkour lol

SassyWindsor
10-24-2011, 21:28
Why hasn't a newspaper article been posted?

Miami Joe
10-24-2011, 21:37
Awe-inspiring pic! Thank you so much for sharing!

SassyWindsor
10-24-2011, 21:43
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y5TwdoOLPTI/SRseEOt9JZI/AAAAAAAAEQk/72EDk1k5Qc4/s400/bigfoot111208.jpg

GoldenBear
10-24-2011, 21:48
has NEVER been doubted.

What has also NEVER been found is one iota of evidence of a breeding colony of wild, indigenous cougars east of the Mississippi and north of Florida.

No matter how reliable is the data of having seen a cougar in the area, that data is as meaningful as the sighting of a tiger roaming free in Ohio last week. A cougar found in the Appalachians is almost certainly a released "pet" or a midwest cougar that has wandered far from any potential mates.
Can wild cougars travel that far without detection? Absolutely. When they get there, will they have any mates to breed with, and continue their presence for more than a few years? Absolutely not.

Always remember these two facts:
1) a breeding colony of thirty cougars in Florida was NOT large enough to sustain their survival for more than a couple decades. Thus, any colony no larger than that will die out in fifty years at most.
2) the Florida colony left an immeasurable amount of evidence of their presence, decade after decade.
The idea that there is a colony in the east (1) larger than the Florida one that has (2) completely escaped detection for more than a century is utterly absurd.

This is why this group
http://www.easterncougar.org/pages/beyondsightings.htm
which would be THRILLED to confirm a presence of such a colony -- indeed, that is what they are advocating and educating for -- makes the following statement:

Are cougars now recovering in the East?
Not yet. Despite more sophisticated technology for finding cougars, and with more people looking than ever before, less evidence has appeared in the last decade than in the 1990s (perhaps because of recent strict legislation prohibiting interstate trade in exotic cats and new state laws prohibiting private ownership of such cats).
Sanctioned studies since the late 1990s by the CRF, research universities, and state and federal wildlife agencies in NY, NJ, PA, MD, VA, WV, and KY have failed to find evidence of cougars. Incidental evidence such as roadkills, accidental shootings or trappings, and photographs captured by privately owned remote wildlife cameras is nearly absent.
Even in Midwestern states with low or emerging cougar populations, incidental evidence appears with reliable frequency.


I am thrilled with the prospect that I will most likely live to see the day when colonies of wild cougars return to their natural habitat in the east. However, I see no evidence that this has yet occurred.

Kookork
10-25-2011, 00:57
Very nice presentation. I am sold. thank you

strollingalong
10-25-2011, 01:09
who cares about a big bloody cat. he said there not their. :eek:

virgil
10-25-2011, 01:24
It's an interesting story, and that's a big cat, but how do I know where the photo was taken or if it's a real photo? Could your daughters friends give us some testimony? Same goes for the Big Foot picture, post#16. I don't know it's origin or if it's authentic. I'd need a lot of testimony on that one.

Tinker
10-25-2011, 09:49
My friend, Chatter, and a hiking buddy of his heard what he claimed to be the call (scream, whatever) of a panther when they were camped near Goose Pond shelter earlier this year. They scouted around and found some large scat (actually, it looked like an oversized furball) which he brought home in a plastic bag and showed to me. He is unsure as to which authority he is to show it to, afraid that it might just "disappear" due to concerns of starting a panic or vigilante response, causing widespread fear or a "lynching" of the animal (if it does, indeed, exist).

Pedaling Fool
10-25-2011, 10:44
Questions for Hunters:

Curious, are there any laws against shooting a cougar in the east? I'm assuming they would be state laws since the feds consider them extinct.

I know about USFWS restrictions in Florida. And I know they can extend to Georgia, but in my mind that begs a question, especially from this statement in this link: http://www.fws.gov/southeast/news/2011/11-057.html

According to court documents and other information presented in court, on November 16, 2008, Adams shot and killed a cougar known as a Florida panther while deer hunting in Troup County, Ga. At the time of the shooting, Adams knew he was shooting at a species of cougar, for which there was no open hunting season in the State of Georgia.


Does that mean that it's illegal to shoot any cougar, regardless if there's no state law against it, because there's no hunting season for them in those areas in which they don't "exist"?

quilteresq
10-25-2011, 10:56
Actually, I know the answer to that question, since I started carrying on our property after I saw the mt. lion. The mt. lion WAS considered endangered at the time of my sighting, and therefore it was against federal law to shoot it. (A technicality that wouldn't have stopped me had it attacked me or my dog). It has now been declared extinct, so shoot away - no laws against shooting extinct animals! I chuckle at this since I'm also a lawyer, and I know the federal prosecutor in NH who prosecutes gun cases. I'd take that case any day of the week. And I'd have a great deal of fun defending it.

Ladytrekker
10-25-2011, 11:49
I hope there is no intent to hurt the Mt. Lion unless your life is threatened it should be respected.

Jim Adams
10-25-2011, 11:50
Might not have a breeding colony, might not have the numbers to sustain but they are out there and have been for some time. I saw one walking up the AT in front of me just before Waynesboro in 1990.....walked into town and told the story and was told that I was imagining things...none in Va. Two hours later another hiker came into town with the same story and pictures on film (he had them developed in Waynesboro)....people still refused to believe the photos. 21 years later and people are still seeing them in that vicinity and people are still argueing that they don't exist. If it is just 1 cat then it is old as hell...has to be some type of breeding population out there...maybe not enough to increase numbers but certainly enough to survive.
Spend enough time in the woods and you will see evidence. Myself and 2 friends had a visual sighting here in SW Pa along the Youghiogheny River, verified by the University of Pittsburgh biology dept in 1985...they may have low numbers but they are there.

geek

Buffalo Skipper
10-25-2011, 11:54
These cats are known to travel outside of their regular range. Northwest Florida has been known to have cats, which have been documented to have come from the South Florida population base. That is over 400 miles of travel. It is likely that a few cats have wandered from their regular location to these areas, and remain for a time. But that is just speculation, based on what has been documented in Florida.

scissor
10-25-2011, 13:25
I'm of the belief that all the ones that people see have been civilized at some point.
IIRC the forest service does not not have one documented case of non-civilized mountain lions north of South Carolina since the 50s.

Jim Adams
10-25-2011, 13:39
I'm of the belief that all the ones that people see have been civilized at some point.
IIRC the forest service does not not have one documented case of non-civilized mountain lions north of South Carolina since the 50s.

How many "pets" or civilized cats do you think are out there? There are far too many sightings over a 60 year span to not have wild cats traveling through areas.
The University of Pittsburgh biology dept told me in 1985 that most large wild animals will travel to new areas along rivers due to it being better habitat to get through populated areas w/o being noticed and more plentiful food and water. They said that they have confirmed sightings or proof of passing through SW Pa. about once or twice a year.

geek

geek

scissor
10-25-2011, 13:44
Civilized meaning claws have been clipped. IIRC its a requirement for when big cats get domesticated and they never grow back so they are very easy to spot. We can exchange experiences and valid points back and forth all day but nothing will change the fact the forest service hasn't had any confirmed cases. To me that proves that modern day mountain lion talk isn't much more than just a wives tale.

Pedaling Fool
10-25-2011, 14:45
I'm of the belief that all the ones that people see have been civilized at some point.
IIRC the forest service does not not have one documented case of non-civilized mountain lions north of South Carolina since the 50s.http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/07/mountain-lion-killed-in-conn-had-walked-from-south-dakota/1

hikerboy57
10-25-2011, 14:50
Civilized meaning claws have been clipped. IIRC its a requirement for when big cats get domesticated and they never grow back so they are very easy to spot. We can exchange experiences and valid points back and forth all day but nothing will change the fact the forest service hasn't had any confirmed cases. To me that proves that modern day mountain lion talk isn't much more than just a wives tale.please provide photos, verifying your disbelief.Seems like all the sightings spoken about here are just a vivd imagination?

quilteresq
10-25-2011, 14:53
No - I wouldn't shoot unless my life was threatened. On the other hand, I hike alone up there several times a year, and stay there probably 30 nights. We have a yurt on the property to stay in, so no worries there. I have been surprised by two different moose in the driveway when I headed out two different mornings. And occasionally, they will pass close to the yurt during the night.

When we saw the cat in 2009, we made a LOT of noise heading down the hill. It was one of the only times I was at the top of our property with anyone other than just my husband. I was taking my sister-in-law and nephews to our view - which was where we first spotted the cat. The cat disappeared over the small rise he was sitting on, and a few minutes later, my nephew said "Oh look, he circled around us!" Zippy.

Snowleopard
10-25-2011, 15:10
Goldenbear's post is good.
There have been a number of verified mountain lions in the northeastern USA and Quebec. Where DNA has been done, they are genetically from a South American population, so almost certainly escaped or released captive animals.

The one exception that I know of is the Connecticut mountain lion which was from the Dakotas and left evidence in the northern midwest (MN and WI?) and in the Adirondacks.

There is a verified case at the Quabbin reservoir.

The OP's friends need another picture to verify the size of this animal -- with the camera in the original location, put a known length at the location of the animal. I live 21 miles from Peterborough, NH, with continuous woods from here to there. I'm skeptical, but whatever it is (cougar, lynx, bobcat, or ???) your friends were lucky to get that picture.

Tinker, your friend should probably contact Mass Wildlife; they have some pretty knowledgeable people. http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/wildlife/wildlife_home.htm

mcstick
10-25-2011, 15:43
Same thing happened in Chicago a few years back.

mcstick
10-25-2011, 15:44
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=6080893

scissor
10-25-2011, 16:07
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/07/mountain-lion-killed-in-conn-had-walked-from-south-dakota/1


“This is the first evidence of a mountain lion making its way to Connecticut from western states, and there is still no evidence indicating that there is a native population of mountain lions in Connecticut,” he said.

"That means that the animal traveled more than 1,500 miles to Connecticut, more than twice as far as the longest dispersal pattern ever recorded for a mountain lion."

quilteresq
10-25-2011, 16:16
Seriously, for those of us who have seen a mountain lion in the east, I can tell you I wasn't about to ask him his pedigree. The eastern mt. lion might well be extinct, but that doesn't mean mountain lions aren't around east of the Mississippi. The mountain lion killed in CT that was from the Dakotas shows that they can travel a very long way.

bronconite
10-25-2011, 16:26
My friend, Chatter, and a hiking buddy of his heard what he claimed to be the call (scream, whatever) of a panther when they were camped near Goose Pond shelter earlier this year. They scouted around and found some large scat (actually, it looked like an oversized furball) which he brought home in a plastic bag and showed to me. He is unsure as to which authority he is to show it to, afraid that it might just "disappear" due to concerns of starting a panic or vigilante response, causing widespread fear or a "lynching" of the animal (if it does, indeed, exist).

http://www.easterncougar.org/

Tinker
10-25-2011, 18:25
WILD mountain lion travels long distance to get hit by car in Connecticut: http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?p=mountain+lion+hit+by+car+in+connecticut

For all you nay-sayers. I think he came here with a friend who is roaming around Upper Goose Pond cabin in Mass.

Papa D
10-25-2011, 20:00
I've seen two in the last 2 years - one in NC - about 40-50 pounds maybe - about 11pm - screeching loudly in a very distinctive way - I watched it for several minutes with my headlamp and then he bolted up a hill. Last year, I saw something that you might not believe (and maybe it was some other animal - like a huge fox, but I don't think so). I was sitting in the front yard of a hostel in Hancock, VT cooking some dinner (this is a town bordered by forests and a beautiful river) - across the road in the driveway a big brownish gold cat - maybe 75 pounds stalking a chicken (the neighbors seemed to have a few) - the cat pounced, grabbed the chicken its mouth, looked straight at me and bolted back into the mountains - I thought it was super cool (except of course for the chicken).

Wise Old Owl
10-25-2011, 20:13
Golden Bear is right ...They are a rare sight on the AT.

So here is what you do...

First don't run at the first sight or scream of a cougar - they rarely expose their presence. Pretend you ran into them and it was an accident.... In short-don't move.
Second talk softly ... continue...say kind things..
Follow this with wine or cheese....Then let them follow you home.... front seat is preferable.


Papa D that most likely was a bobcat if it was close to dusk or dawn

CrumbSnatcher
10-25-2011, 20:17
another big cat spotted in eastern nebraska yesterday
not usually spotted in the eastern half of the state.

Papa D
10-25-2011, 20:32
thanks Wise Old Owl - I figured the one in NC was a big bobcat, but the one in VT was huge - I mean like a circus lion in size - I suppose it could have been a bobcat - I had had about 1/2 bottle of wine but damn that thing was big and powerful and moved fast - it handled the chicken with ease.

Wise Old Owl
10-25-2011, 20:51
"Stay furry my freinds........" Quote from Puss in boots

Jim Adams
10-25-2011, 21:48
bobcats have a very short tail and weigh 20-30 pounds.
mountain lions have a very long tail (2/3 length of their body) and weight 60-100 pounds.
bobcat is brown and gray with black trim.
mountain lions are tan to light brown.
bobcats have longer facial hair and mountain lions have very short hair around their face.

no reason to confuse them.

geek

johnnybgood
10-25-2011, 22:12
Might not have a breeding colony, might not have the numbers to sustain but they are out there and have been for some time. I saw one walking up the AT in front of me just before Waynesboro in 1990.....walked into town and told the story and was told that I was imagining things...none in Va. Two hours later another hiker came into town with the same story and pictures on film (he had them developed in Waynesboro)....people still refused to believe the photos. 21 years later and people are still seeing them in that vicinity and people are still argueing that they don't exist.

geek The one I saw was opposite end of SNP , same year -- several miles south of Dickey's Ridge.

:-? Same cat ?

Wise Old Owl
10-25-2011, 22:41
bobcats - cats all the same..................
Its OK Jim my attitude is about a gator.....

Driver8
10-26-2011, 01:05
bobcats have a very short tail and weigh 20-30 pounds.
mountain lions have a very long tail (2/3 length of their body) and weight 60-100 pounds.

Not to be contrary, but the Wikipedia articles for bobcat and mountain lion say, respectively, that adult male bobcats weigh about 16-40 lbs, with a maximum verified specimen weight of 49 lbs, and that adult male mountain lions weigh 113-220 lbs, with the largest verified specimen being about 300 lbs. Mountain lions, the article says, rarely attack people, though the reported frequency of attacks has gone up in recent years.

Bucherm
10-26-2011, 03:56
How many "pets" or civilized cats do you think are out there?

geek


Seeing as there could be up to 10,000 Tigers (http://www.mcgillreport.org/tigers.htm) in capitivity in the States as pets or in roadside zoos, I find it very possible that these mountain lion sightings in the Eastern US are mostly former pets/escapees.

Migrating Bird
10-26-2011, 07:38
Anybody know anyone with a pet mountian lion or bobcat? and if so, when they hike do they keep it on a leash or violate leash laws?:D

Pedaling Fool
10-26-2011, 08:25
Civilized meaning claws have been clipped. IIRC its a requirement for when big cats get domesticated and they never grow back so they are very easy to spot. We can exchange experiences and valid points back and forth all day but nothing will change the fact the forest service hasn't had any confirmed cases. To me that proves that modern day mountain lion talk isn't much more than just a wives tale.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/07/mountain-lion-killed-in-conn-had-walked-from-south-dakota/1


“This is the first evidence of a mountain lion making its way to Connecticut from western states, and there is still no evidence indicating that there is a native population of mountain lions in Connecticut,” he said.

"That means that the animal traveled more than 1,500 miles to Connecticut, more than twice as far as the longest dispersal pattern ever recorded for a mountain lion."I wasn't making a case for them being established here; I agree there is no evidence that they are established -- I'm not convinced that are establish, but also not convinced that cubs have not been born in the east. I know that doesn't mean there is a sustainable breeding population, but it is significant; it is much more significant than the tired old line of these so called experts that are alway attributing any sighting as either misidentified animal or an escaped pet.

scissor
10-26-2011, 09:22
I wasn't making a case for them being established here; I agree there is no evidence that they are established -- I'm not convinced that are establish, but also not convinced that cubs have not been born in the east. I know that doesn't mean there is a sustainable breeding population, but it is significant; it is much more significant than the tired old line of these so called experts that are alway attributing any sighting as either misidentified animal or an escaped pet.

How did you come to the conclusion that it is significant? The Conn finding was this July but that Cat was proven to not even be born on the East coast. The info I read was before that. So the forest service still does not have one Wild northeastern born Panther sighting North of South Carolina since the 50s. And only one wild has ever even made it to the East Coast.

Aside of that point... look around us. What large wild animals are out in the East that aren't kept there for hunting? They just aren't there anymore and it gets worse every year humans are on this planet. Fossil records have shown that 75% of large animal species are extinct because of human interference (much because of Native American influence). But we should believe that for some reason, in one of the most populated regions of the world in the most populated time ever in the world, we expect a comeback of a 150 pound carnivorous cat? Thats very hard to believe. Again, much of native Mountain Lion talk is not much more than a wives tale. You would probably be more likely to find an Alligator or Croc in Connecticut than a Mountain Lion.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8e4_1237826906
http://www.theday.com/article/20110726/NWS12/110729667/1070
http://www.necn.com/Boston/New-England/2009/07/09/Double-big-reptile-trouble-in/1247173177.html

Hosaphone
10-26-2011, 13:29
Anybody know anyone with a pet mountian lion or bobcat? and if so, when they hike do they keep it on a leash or violate leash laws?:D

Probably no mouse problems in the shelters. They probably don't have to put up with other hikers snoring either!

Jim Adams
10-26-2011, 14:21
Not to be contrary, but the Wikipedia articles for bobcat and mountain lion say, respectively, that adult male bobcats weigh about 16-40 lbs, with a maximum verified specimen weight of 49 lbs, and that adult male mountain lions weigh 113-220 lbs, with the largest verified specimen being about 300 lbs. Mountain lions, the article says, rarely attack people, though the reported frequency of attacks has gone up in recent years.

...just using the figures supplied to me by a mountain lion biologist at a class on mountain lions at the PCT kick off. He pointed out that most mountain lion attacks on humans are a cat and mouse reflex. He said that mountain lions typically don't like the taste of humans and that unless you are running, jogging, bike riding etc., you are too slow and they are bored of you. BTW, he showed a map of southern california with hundreds of push pins locating the mountain lions with radio collars...he had no idea how many more were out there. If they can survive in that populated environment and only be spotted occassionally, I feel sure that a small population in the east could do the same....which seems to be the case.

...if there are that many "civilized" mountain lions out there then according to other posts, they are de-clawed so they would probably die of starvation.


Pa. doesn't have alligators either but the authorities are having trouble trapping an 8 footer in a resevior north of Pittsburgh.


...sure people do have exotic pets and when they get tired of them or they become too much to handle they unfortunately for the animal release them into the public.
I don't think that there are thousands of mountain lions released into the public...figures that large would be too easy to uncover but if just 1 male and 1 female of breeding ages meet in the woods, chances are that they will stay close until mating and offspring are born.....maybe not thousands but if 2 cats produce 2 more every 2 years, in their lifetime they may produce enough to occassionally be spotted in the woods by hikers...just say'in.

....besides, the government says that the eastern mountain lion is extint....do you believe everything the government releases statements about?

quilteresq
10-26-2011, 14:26
.

....besides, the government says that the eastern mountain lion is extint...

Doesn't make a darned bit of difference if the "eastern mountain lion" as a species is extinct. If there are cats out there (and I've seen one, so I know they are out there) - his pedigree doesn't matter a lot. What are you going to do, tell him to go home?

Jim Adams
10-26-2011, 14:33
Doesn't make a darned bit of difference if the "eastern mountain lion" as a species is extinct. If there are cats out there (and I've seen one, so I know they are out there) - his pedigree doesn't matter a lot. What are you going to do, tell him to go home?

Exactly!

geek

lemon b
10-26-2011, 19:53
Would love to see one be a heck of a way to die.

vamelungeon
10-26-2011, 20:00
I saw one this summer near Mt. Rogers Nat. Rec. Area, and I have no doubt about what I saw. I sort have a different attitude than most I see on here in that I hope they don't make a comeback here. A lot of people on WB seem to be really afraid of black bears, but I have to say mountain lions are a lot more scary to me. I've heard too many news reports about people being killed by them I suppose.

chiefiepoo
10-26-2011, 22:36
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/308693_2558686969909_1336059631_32921123_261134946 _n.jpg

In North Fl a few days ago. Near the Florida Trail along the Suwannee. Fair size bobcat. They're out there.

Driver8
10-26-2011, 22:58
...just using the figures supplied to me by a mountain lion biologist at a class on mountain lions at the PCT kick off.

IIRC the article says that there's a north-south size gradient in mountain lions, with north larger than south (I'm guessing b/c of need to put on weight for cold winters), so the prof. might've been talking about those in the more southerly reaches of California.

Bucherm
10-26-2011, 23:54
...if there are that many "civilized" mountain lions out there then according to other posts, they are de-clawed so they would probably die of starvation.


Not all big cats that are kept as exotic pets/at roadide zoos are declawed.



I don't think that there are thousands of mountain lions released into the public...figures that large would be too easy to uncover but if just 1 male and 1 female of breeding ages meet in the woods, chances are that they will stay close until mating and offspring are born.....maybe not thousands but if 2 cats produce 2 more every 2 years, in their lifetime they may produce enough to occassionally be spotted in the woods by hikers...just say'in.

Yeah, which is kinda the point that's being made here: One-off sightings is not indicative of a large breeding population, escapees from roadside zoos or exotic pets more than cover the random sightings.


....do you believe everything the government releases statements about?

I tend to believe it if there isn't a vested interest on behalf of the government to otherwise confuse the issue. What interest would the Feds have for lying about a breeding population of Eastern Mountain Lions?

Bezekid609
10-27-2011, 09:43
i hope and pray that these creatures will once again thrive in the eastern mountains... rightfully so. These lands were there lands

Pedaling Fool
10-27-2011, 09:51
How did you come to the conclusion that it is significant? The Conn finding was this July but that Cat was proven to not even be born on the East coast. The info I read was before that. So the forest service still does not have one Wild northeastern born Panther sighting North of South Carolina since the 50s. And only one wild has ever even made it to the East Coast.We don't know where that cougar was born. I'm not saying it was born on the east coast, but to say, "we know it was born in ..." DNA just can't tell us that. What if you take 100 (50M and 50 F) individuals, say from South America and release them in Maine and do DNA testing on the offspring, they will all have DNA of South American cougars. Also DNA changes over areas of great differences in environmental condition, as well as other factors, such as in Florida. However, when you get to northern U.S. whether it be the east or west the DNA evidence is not really there to even say there's such a thing as an Eastern Cougar, just read the first two paragraphs here http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/science/earth/03cougar.html


Aside of that point... look around us. What large wild animals are out in the East that aren't kept there for hunting? They just aren't there anymore and it gets worse every year humans are on this planet.
The Black Bear is increasing in numbers, yes they are hunted, but in many cases it's to control their number, i.e. lessen them. And the deer are definitely overpopulated, we need another predator, because apparently we and the bears can't keep up.

Also, it's not just here in the Eastern U.S. with all these sightings http://www.ottawacitizen.com/cougar+there/3179785/story.html But again, I'm not making a case for a sustainable breeding population, but it does appear they are returning to the east, and it would only make sense with the exploding deer populations.

Fossil records have shown that 75% of large animal species are extinct because of human interference (much because of Native American influence). But we should believe that for some reason, in one of the most populated regions of the world in the most populated time ever in the world, we expect a comeback of a 150 pound carnivorous cat? Thats very hard to believe.Humans have caused 75% of all large animal species to go extinct? I know we've cause some extinctions, but that's just crazy.

scissor
10-27-2011, 12:49
Humans have caused 75% of all large animal species to go extinct? I know we've cause some extinctions, but that's just crazy.

Yes its been theorized that the number is 75% in North America. Its theorized to be 95% in Australia. Europe is much lower, only about a third is believed. This is thought to be because humans had much more interaction with animals over history in Europe and animals evolved better to survive. Australia was isolated from humans for so long they were basically completely decimated after human arrival, similar to the Americas.

But, remember we are talking over a very long time here. We are talking about animals that many of us have never heard of but there were a TON of them. Some evidence of how many... there is an estimated 150 million Mammooths buried in Siberian tundra. Thats just one speices. The world was a very different place before human arrival.

MattC
10-27-2011, 15:52
I'm no expert on wildlife, but I believe there are strange things out in the woods. 2 years ago, we me and friends were in harriman state park, doing some winter stealth camping. We decided to walk to a near by lake at night since it was a full moon, and we really had nothing better to do. As we got close to the lake we started to hear some crazy sounds, like nothing i've ever heard before. Then my buddy notices something walking across the frozen lake. It was BIG, lanky, and had a long tail. We got real low and watched this thing walk across the lake, and run off into the woods. We still have no idea what it was, we ruled out bear, deer, coyote, because of the size and body structure. It honestly looked like a malnurished panther or something.

so um, in conclusion.....eh.....hike your own hike?

goody5534
10-27-2011, 19:05
Sassy why u posting pics of my Momma, it aint right...

Bucherm
10-27-2011, 21:54
I really, really, do not believe that humans have caused "75% of all large animal species to go extinct". Not unless you actually mean "75% of all large animal species since humans evolved", which is a different situation.

Creepwood
10-28-2011, 19:07
I'm not sure what would be scarier to see close and personal in the woods, a bear or a cougar.

Kerosene
10-28-2011, 19:32
I've seen both. A 200-pound yearling bear from 15 yards (Double Springs Shelter, Oct '11), another from 30 yards in the middle of the night (SNP, Sep '86), a huge 400-pounder watching me when I passed him on an uphill corner from 20 yards (Oct '08), and a medium cougar at about 40 yards (Oct '01). Upon first seeing the bears my heartrate skyrocketed but settled down soon after the encounter. With the cougar I wasn't sure what it was at first until I clapped my hands to scare it away, but my heartrate stayed elevated for the next 2 miles as I had my head on a swivel to make sure it wasn't stalking me!
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Of course, I've never seen a live rattlesnake in 2000 miles of hiking. That would probably be scarier.

Bucherm
11-01-2011, 05:16
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Of course, I've never seen a live rattlesnake in 2000 miles of hiking. That would probably be scarier.

My dog stopped me from stepping on a Rattlesnake on the Tuscarora Trail. I was on a rock and about to step off onto it when she started to whine. Dang snake was slithering on out from under a rock and when it noticed me it started to rattle.

Leon Smith
11-01-2011, 08:22
In early July of this year, at Caledonia PA, I met north bound hiker Baby Ruth. We talked about the trail ahead, water, etcetera. As the conversation turned she showed me her video sequence from Shenandoah National Park. At Lewis Mountain she photographed a cougar on the trail. The tawny brown catamount was moving and Baby Ruth quickly determined it's course. she had the wherewithal to take off her pack and make ready her camera. After a moderate walk the cat reappeared in profile, a mere thirty feet away.

Close and clear the image of the mountain lion is outstanding. The big cat appears in the brightness of June as healthy and formidable, but unconcerned or oblivious to the hiker-photographer. The lighting, view and close-up of the cougar in this video would make a wildlife photographer envious.

Pedaling Fool
11-01-2011, 08:36
In early July of this year, at Caledonia PA, I met north bound hiker Baby Ruth. We talked about the trail ahead, water, etcetera. As the conversation turned she showed me her video sequence from Shenandoah National Park. At Lewis Mountain she photographed a cougar on the trail. The tawny brown catamount was moving and Baby Ruth quickly determined it's course. she had the wherewithal to take off her pack and make ready her camera. After a moderate walk the cat reappeared in profile, a mere thirty feet away.

Close and clear the image of the mountain lion is outstanding. The big cat appears in the brightness of June as healthy and formidable, but unconcerned or oblivious to the hiker-photographer. The lighting, view and close-up of the cougar in this video would make a wildlife photographer envious.I remember that thread, but still waiting....http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?74144-Mountain-Lion-filmed-in-Shenandoah-over-the-weekend-6-24-11&highlight=baby

trippclark
11-01-2011, 09:22
Same photo is posted over at Field and Stream's photo contest site
http://www.fieldandstream.com/contest_entry/1001453248?page=141&pnid=1001454046