View Full Version : Bodybuilding, Thru-Hiking and Muscle Loss
Do any bodybuilders dare attempt to thru-hike or would long distance hiking tear down too much muscle mass? If it does tear it down rather than build it up, what can be done to prevent this from happening? Any Thoughts?
Pedaling Fool
10-27-2011, 09:58
I hate the term bodybuilder, but I do lift weights on a very regular basis; I see it as the one exercise to build a strong body, not only muscles, more improtantly all the joints and associated connective tissue. I gave up weightlifting for nearly the entire year of my hike -- 2006. Didn't worry one bit about muscle loss, it comes back very quickly, that's the nice thing about muscle memory.
The Solemates
10-27-2011, 09:59
Do any bodybuilders dare attempt to thru-hike or would long distance hiking tear down too much muscle mass? If it does tear it down rather than build it up, what can be done to prevent this from happening? Any Thoughts?
I was an amateur bodybuilder before we started the trail. I was 6'4" 225 with 10% body fat and ripped. I lost everything. I mean everything. I lost 45 lbs on the trail. But I knew this would happen and I didnt care. The trail was more important to me. It didnt take me long to recover after the trail anyways. Within a year I was back to where I was pre-hike, but I was half your age at the time. There is no way to avoid it.
The Solemates
10-27-2011, 10:06
To expand a little more - the trail actually helped me I think. It helped me get my priorities straight. Bodybuilding was an unhealthy obsession for me - I worked out twice a day for about 3 hours a day 6 days a week. I woke up twice during the middle of the night just to eat so that I didnt lose muscle mass while sleeping, all that and I would wake up in the FM (freakin' morning) to go work out. I would work out before work and then after work in the evening. I guestimate between the gym and time devoted to prep etc for my diet I had 6 hours a day tied up in it, which was unhealthy. the trail helped change that.
garlic08
10-27-2011, 10:13
I also believe in weight lifting for strength, not mass. I met a "body builder" in Maine near the end of his hike and he looked like me--thin and wiry--by then. He was really pissed when he started in GA that he couldn't breathe on the climbs, couldn't keep up with the skinny folk. He seemed pretty happy with his "new" body when I met him.
I lost few pounds of muscle mass on my hikes. It comes back with normal exercise (I was a firefighter) in a few months.
ChinMusic
10-27-2011, 10:46
I was an amateur bodybuilder before we started the trail. I was 6'4" 225 with 10% body fat and ripped. I lost everything. I mean everything. I lost 45 lbs on the trail. But I knew this would happen and I didnt care. The trail was more important to me. It didnt take me long to recover after the trail anyways. Within a year I was back to where I was pre-hike, but I was half your age at the time. There is no way to avoid it.
For a person like you to lose 45 pounds seems like a LOT to me. How much do you think you would have lost had you just quit lifting and didn't do the hike? Did you fell like you were eating as well as you could?
I lift for health. No obsession here. I really don't like it. I have plans to do some minor upper body work (push-ups, triceps dips, abs, etc) when getting to camp. Don't know if I will be in the mood to do such, but that is the plan. I know I will lose some muscle mass but I have some other fuels (fat) for my body to burn as well. I prefer the body burn the fat instead of the muscle. I'm hoping that with a bit of upper body work I can convince my body to leave most of those muscles alone. Time will tell.
The Solemates
10-27-2011, 13:00
For a person like you to lose 45 pounds seems like a LOT to me. How much do you think you would have lost had you just quit lifting and didn't do the hike? Did you fell like you were eating as well as you could?
My healthy weight, which is what I weigh now and I am in great shape, is 205-210. So, I'd guess I would have lost about 15-20 lbs if I just stopped lifting. Of note, I did lose 45 lbs during the course of my hike, but I ended the hike only about 35 lbs lighter than when I started. My lowest weight was around NH, in which no, I did not feel like I was eating enough, and obviously being on the trail what I did eat was junk. I gained 10 lbs the last month of hiking, although I never really changed my diet either.
I lift for health. No obsession here. I really don't like it. I have plans to do some minor upper body work (push-ups, triceps dips, abs, etc) when getting to camp. Don't know if I will be in the mood to do such, but that is the plan. I know I will lose some muscle mass but I have some other fuels (fat) for my body to burn as well. I prefer the body burn the fat instead of the muscle. I'm hoping that with a bit of upper body work I can convince my body to leave most of those muscles alone. Time will tell.
Uh....no. Probably wont be doing any pushups in camp. :)
MedicineWoman2012
10-27-2011, 13:26
I cant resist to jump in on this predominently male dominated discussion ...ha ha! I did two certified physical agility competitions while training for fire academy and stayed focused on upper body since that was typically my weakest area. I was obsessed just as solemates described dedicated atleast 5 hrs per day to weight training and 1 hr per day to cardio. This created more difficulties when I was section hiking...my weight was very low and I couldnt afford to lose any more. It was an effort to keep weight on immediately after the section hikes because my metabolism was screaming even more than usual. My lower body required far more energy and calories than I was prepared to restore each day. That occured on my first year of section hiking ..now second year of section hiking I am predominantly stronger in upper body from long distance kayaking but it was a shock again to my system to hiking and using lower body ..I was screaming with the miles 18-20 per day in smokies but I wasnt keeping the weight on. I lost 15lbs on each week of returning a week or a section at a time. I am usually shocked at the results of all muscles still intact (upper body) and loads of new longer hamstrings, quads, calves, knees are extraordinarily equipped from weight training. I cant say that I regret the years of serious weight training prior because I was alot less fragile and less likely to injur unlike others climbing challenging downhill sections such as Shuckstack to Fontana on slipper wet rock. I am unsure if the altitude or the challenging ups and downs without switchbacks in smokies are the contributing factors or the sudden switch in cardio on lower body vs upper from kayaking long distance daily on outer banks. I have a tendency to skimp on lunches which could be the problem.
Echraide
10-27-2011, 16:37
I lost muscle overall but gained definition in my legs. Make sure you're carrying enough protein in the food in your pack and don't fill up on beer and Twinkies in towns. You'll look more like an endurance athlete than a bodybuilder, of course. But I lost so much bodyfat that when I started lifting again my overall definition was amazing, and I'm a female endomorph. :)
ChinMusic
10-27-2011, 16:44
and I'm a female endomorph. :)
It seems many females end a thru looking like an aerobic instructor while the guys look like concentration camp survivors.
Don't want to hijack the thread but since we're on the topic of body mass does anyone have any tips for the skinny hikers? I'm tall and quite lanky. Not by choice but more in my genes since a lot of the males on my fathers' side are the same way. Any advice for people like me that have a fast metabolism rate and don't want to end up losing what little fat and muscle they already have on their thru hike?
garlic08
10-27-2011, 18:29
I can't gain weight no matter how much I eat, too. I was not a successful long distance hiker until I cut my pack weight way down and made the actual walking much easier which required much less food. On my AT thru, I was in great shape and carried a very light pack (8 pound base weight). I ate 4000+ calories per day on trail, pigged out in towns, and managed to maintain my weight overall. I went down to skin and bones (lost maybe five pounds) in the Southern Appalachians, gained it back in the mid-Atlantic (easier hiking and more restaurants, such as the deli-a-day stretch from PA to NY), and lost it again in New England. Within a week I was back up to my pre-hike weight.
You need to pay attention to your body. If you lose an alarming amount of weight, don't have any energy, and can't carry any more food, slow down your pace and/or lighten your load. I think you're better off starting lanky than obese, by the way.
SassyWindsor
10-27-2011, 18:32
As an avid volleyball player I had some loss of upper body strength while thru-hiking. All got back to pre-hike levels after 10 months or so. I now carry braided resistance cords to help maintain flexibility/some strength and to use for strapping things.
Blissful
10-29-2011, 20:10
You are what you eat - eating ramen and mashed potatoe or noodle mixes does not maintain muscle. A balanced diet with adequate protein out there is a must and can really be achieved. Which is why I prefer a combination maildrop / buying.
MuddyWaters
10-31-2011, 22:30
Its not the hiking thats the problem,
Its the starvation.
Muscle requires lots of calories to maintain, fat requires very little.
When you consume a low caloric intake , you body sheds muscle (and uses up fat) trying to reach homeostasis. That is, equilibrium where the caloric intake = caloric expenditure. By dropping muscle, the body needs less food consumed.
When I used to lift heavy, and weighed 215 with 15% bodyfat, I was unhealthy. My cholesterol was ~200, blood pressure was mildly high, bad triglycerides, bad good cholesterol, etc. Even though I did cardio, I was out of shape. I couldnt run across a parking lot, I had shin splints at that bodyweight. Always tired too, noticeably lazy.
Today I weigh 160lb at 6-7% bodyfat. Perfect health, good shape, good bloodwork #s all the way around.
I lost it because I got older, no longer had hormones to keep that muscle on. Was getting weaker and smaller and fatter every year. Decided Id rather be lean and fit, that fat and sloppy and out of shape.
I just read someplace about fasting while exercising. It suggested a short 24 hour fast once a week or so could have some benefits relating to cardio and strength training. Not conclusive, but here it is, if I can remember it ...
If doing a long slow distance type run, after a 24 hour fast, before you eat, you will burn more fat and less carbs during your run, and perhaps have additional training effect in burning fats and conserving glycogen, which can be a good thing. On the possible downside, there is more measurable muscle microdamage after the run. I am not sure if this is good or bad, in terms of training.
Also, as a potential benefit for both endurance and strength training, your growth hormone levels are temporarily elevated after a 24 hour fast. This combined with evidence that muscle loss does not really start until after 72 hours of fasting, presuming you have some excess body fat to lose, means that a 24 hour fast once a week might be better that eating the same amount every day.
Not sure how this applies to hiking, or how you might fit fasting into a thru-hike, or section hike, or weekend hikes and regular cardio and/or strength training. In general, I think it is more of a benefit for people that also want lose some fat, but might also benefit people that don't need to lose fat. If very low in body fat, I would say no.
As a general rule, I read some other place that your body is fairly willing to give up about 1% of its fat stores each day, but beyond that it gets more difficult, and you are more apt to get into muscle loss when you run low on glycogen stores. If say, 215, with a lean body mass of 150, you might expect to be able to burn .65 pounds of fat per day, through a caloric deficit of 2400 calories or so. With that ammount of body fat, along with glycogen stores, you should be able to not only fast 24 hours, but also do alot of hiking or running or weight training, at least for that one day. However, if you are 165 pounds, with that same 150 pounds of lean body mass, you might only expect to burn 0.15 pounds of body fat per day, so only 500 calories, plus glycogen stores, before getting into muscle and organ protiens. Glycogen stores can be as much as 2000 calories in a well conditioned body, but you can't empty that tank completely, because your brain function depends on it.
So in short, fasting can have benefits, but is much more difficult if you don't have some excess body fat. In general, even without fasting once a week, it is good to maintain some excess body fat while training, and only go down to your optimum level when you want to peak for whatever it is you are doing. So I think if you want to try incorporating a little fasting into your hiking, or running, or weight lifting program, it has to be less extreme if you have less excess body fat to work with. In other words, you can still play, but you have to be more careful with the numbers.
Pedaling Fool
11-01-2011, 07:41
Welcome back JAK:)
Here'a an interesting article about training for a swim across the English channel. http://www.livestrong.com/article/37143-swim-english-channel/
It specifically talks about the need to train the body to tap into the body's fat reserves, by training in a "fasted state". This is basically what a long-distance hiker learns to do, especially if you're the type that doesn't go into town too often.
Here's the excerpt:
Step 2
Train your body to metabolize fat efficiently by doing some of your shorter workouts on an empty stomach. This teaches your body to spare finite carbohydrate stores by using fat (a practically unlimited source of energy) for fuel. Swimming in a "fasted state" also prepares your body for the low points that come after swimming for six hours, when carbohydrate reserves are exhausted and you begin to "hit the wall."
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/37143-swim-english-channel/#ixzz1cS8RV6Ck
I was in very good shape prior to my thru hike. I am 6'2 and my ideal weight is 187. Prior to the trip I dropped down to 182 due to the intense prehike training I did. However I went on a food fest (food training) prior to the hike to get my weight back up to 187. I fastpacked the PCT in about 98 days this year and lost 10 pounds in the first 1100 miles doing mostly 30 mile days. I bumped my caloric intake up to 7000-8000 calories a day and only lost 2 lbs for the next 1500 miles. When I was done I weighed 175 and went from a very balance upper body to now having an upper body like a runner.
Getting enough protein in your diet will delay the inevitable but I don't think you're going to stop upper body muscle loss. Thru-hike is subjecting your body to extreme conditions and the wonderful thing about the human body is it's ability to adapt. Finally, I hiked on carbs and dined on protein for recovery. It worked for me, YMMV
Great stuff. Thanks all. I started doing alot of kayaking this summer, so I am going to try and put on some upper body muscle this winter in prep for next summer. My daughter is in a sprint kayaking program, and I fix the boats, but I started training with them. I use a wider boat, and am more interested in distance paddling, and hiking, but I hope to be able to get some reasonable strength and balance to be able to paddle a skinnier kayak also. To old to develop much strength and speed, but good to work on weaknesses also. Weights and rowing machine. Cross-country skiing in Jan/Feb. Weekend hiking and daily running through the winter also. Maybe some swimming. My swimming sucks, but again, weaknesses as well as strengths...
Plan is to do a paddle / hike to Katahdin from Saint John NB, up the St.John River to Meductic, across the Malecite Trail/Portage route to the Penobscot, up the Penobscot towards Katahdin, hiking and climbing the rest of the way, then not sure where to go from there. Maybe back the way I came. Anyhow, thus the interest in developing some upper body mass to go with my legs, while still needing to drop anotherb 40 pounds in excess body fat, hopefully by next summer, but I've been stuck around 210 for awhile now. Need to hike more, and paddle more also when the water gets warmer again. Good hiking here, but good paddling also.
I was in very good shape prior to my thru hike. I am 6'2 and my ideal weight is 187. Prior to the trip I dropped down to 182 due to the intense prehike training I did. However I went on a food fest (food training) prior to the hike to get my weight back up to 187. I fastpacked the PCT in about 98 days this year and lost 10 pounds in the first 1100 miles doing mostly 30 mile days. I bumped my caloric intake up to 7000-8000 calories a day and only lost 2 lbs for the next 1500 miles. When I was done I weighed 175 and went from a very balance upper body to now having an upper body like a runner.
Getting enough protein in your diet will delay the inevitable but I don't think you're going to stop upper body muscle loss. Thru-hike is subjecting your body to extreme conditions and the wonderful thing about the human body is it's ability to adapt. Finally, I hiked on carbs and dined on protein for recovery. It worked for me, YMMV
How did you eat 8,000 caleries per day while on the trail? Did you have people bringing you food on a daily basis?
How did you eat 8,000 caleries per day while on the trail? Did you have people bringing you food on a daily basis?
I did a combination of mail drops and buying. The picture below is what I left Ashland with on a three day carry. Normally I would drink in 1500-2000 calories of Maltodextrin each day along with food. Basically I ate 300 calories per hour all day which was about 5000 calories. Additionally, I started eating massive dinners and end if the day snacks to allow my body to process food 24 hours a day. This was the only way to match my calorie burn which was somewhere in the 6000-8000 range depending on the mileage. During this section of trail I averaged 32 mpd and took no zeros so this was about the only way I could sustain this pace for the duration of the trail. My goal for eating during the day was to provide enough calories to power me through the day and sustain my weight for the whole trip.
one thing to note is that for most hikers there is little need to come close to these calorie burns. The average thru hiker is doing far fewer miles and eating far greater number of meals off trail.
21985
I have had someone in the past tell me that one of the reason they use trekking poles is to help with maintaining upper body strength. Obviously it is nothing like pumping iron, but I always wondered what difference this makes... I normally don't use trekking poles.
Drybones
06-19-2013, 08:28
I'm no body builder but I go to the gym 6 times a week if I'm not in the woods or on a river. I experience a lot of muscle lose on a long hike, in the upper body, takes me about 3 months at the gym to get it back.
Pedaling Fool
06-19-2013, 09:51
I have had someone in the past tell me that one of the reason they use trekking poles is to help with maintaining upper body strength. Obviously it is nothing like pumping iron, but I always wondered what difference this makes... I normally don't use trekking poles.You hear that a lot from people that use poles, but the reality is that they don't use them in a way that significantly helps maintain their upper-body strength. Reason being because we all tend to get in a rhythm when hiking and that rhythm is, by nature, the most efficient for us, and using your poles in a body-building fashion is not part of an efficient rhythm.
As I said in post #2, don't worry about it, just get back into it after your hike and it'll comeback. Pushups/pullups and other things can't hurt, but most don't have the energy/motivation to do that on long-distance hikes, but if you did, it'll be much better than whatever poles do for you, which is basically nothing.