Cold Weather Clothing

[tucker0104]

Thanks in advance for the advice. I have done plenty of spring, summer, and early fall hiking. I am wanting to get into winter hiking this winter mainly in the north carolina area. Just wondering what most people used themselves and what you recommend. Not really worried about when I am moving around but more when I am in camp. I can hike down to about 20 degrees in light pants, long sleeve wick away, light gloves, and beanie. What do you recommend for camp? Very interested in lightweight and layering. Thanks.

[Tipi Walter]

The best lightweight items for in-camp lounging are goose down in different configurations. Depending on the cold, I always bring a down jacket or parka (WM Meltdown jacket or a Feathered Friends Icefall parka), down pants (WM Flight), and a pair of down booties (WM).

Below this layer comes the merino midlayer tops and merino long john bottoms. These can be worn while backpacking if it's really cold---if not just wear a light baselayer top under a good gtx rain jacket---to conserve heat when moving. Most winter hiking can be done in bare legs wearing shorts unless it's very cold, and then the standard shorts over the long johns. Rarely gtx rainpants over the long johns unless it's frigid. Of course the down items as above are never worn while backpacking---too hot.

Of course, don't forget the two hat system---a balaclava under a good toboggan. And two pairs of gloves---always---in case one pair gets wet which it will.

[tucker0104]

Thanks again for the advice.

[swjohnsey]

Start with thin polypro (or silk) tops and bottoms and leave 'em on all the time.

[Tinker]

For a first-timer I'd recommend getting a good hooded (indespensible - the hood - in my opinion) synthetic filled jacket (just in case it gets wet) for an insulating layer. More insulation is better if you're not sure of your needs (you won't be until you experience it yourself). This is for camp only, never to be worn in precipitation without a waterproof garment over it. One of the reasons I recommend synthetics in clothing is that it's a lot more likely that your clothing will get wet than your sleeping bag (I only use down unless I'm doing a canoe trip). I recently bought a pair of down filled pants from Western Mountaineering that helps bring extra warmth (insulation, actually I provide the warmth) to my sleeping bag. Lightly insulated synthetic bottoms can be substituted. There's nothing better than having those pants to wear around camp and to bed, imo. I also use down booties in temps. below freezing. I find that I get colder as I get older, no surprise here.
Bring two caps, or beanies, or a balaclava and a beanie (I use a very light balaclava and a heavier beanie - also called a "watch cap", especially for those familiar with Naval jargon). The main reason for two is that if you lose one you won't freeze, but you can use both together.
Wearing plastic bread bags over your feet but under your socks while you sleep will keep them much warmer, and, no, your feet won't fill the bags with sweat. Sweat production decreases as humidity approaches 100%. This is a vapor barrier. You can buy vapor barrier socks from www.warmlite.com (http://www.warmlite.com) if you intend to hike in them. The bread bags will disintegrate if you walk much in them. As usual, wool or synthetic socks are recommended over those with any cotton content because they won't hold moisture like a sponge.
While you're hiking it would probably be a good idea to have a fleece or lightly insulated jacket available for rest stops. I use fleece because I'm used to it and because I can throw a nylon shell over it to break the wind or I can use either the fleece or the nylon wind breaker separately, giving me a more adaptable system than having a jacket with an integrated shell.

Remember, it's hunting season, so wear some blaze orange to protect yourself from an accident. You can buy some of the items I mentioned in blaze orange. Since they won't be your everyday wear you won't have to worry about being unfashionable in town.

Another tip for cold hand sufferers: Wear vinyl examination gloves under your regular gloves as a vapor barrier to keep your hands warmer.

[Tipi Walter]

Start with thin polypro (or silk) tops and bottoms and leave 'em on all the time.

My current favorite top baselayer is a long sleeve silk turtleneck. Did I mention it's made from SILK? Love silk. I use it year round and often hike with it next to the skin and then my synthetic or merino t-shirt over it. Silk feels great esp when under the top merino layers, like Icebreaker zipneck 260's or 320's.

[Tinker]

My current favorite top baselayer is a long sleeve silk turtleneck. Did I mention it's made from SILK? Love silk. I use it year round and often hike with it next to the skin and then my synthetic or merino t-shirt over it. Silk feels great esp when under the top merino layers, like Icebreaker zipneck 260's or 320's.

Walter, I like silk, too, but haven't had much luck laundering it. It comes out stiff and wrinkly. Any tips? If I could care for it properly it would probably regain a spot on my hiking list. For the past 15 years I've used synth or wool.

[Tipi Walter]

Walter, I like silk, too, but haven't had much luck laundering it. It comes out stiff and wrinkly. Any tips? If I could care for it properly it would probably regain a spot on my hiking list. For the past 15 years I've used synth or wool.

No real tips. I use Wintersilks stuff. I wash it with my merinos in cold/warm gentle cycle with Woolite and always hang dry, of course. It does turn a little stiff after many washings but by then it's usually worn out anyway and ready to be replaced. I like finding the men's Tall tops, with the longer waist length and longer sleeves. Cabelas and Wintersilks are the only places I've found decent lightweight long-sleeve silk turtlenecks.

[Tinker]

No real tips. I use Wintersilks stuff. I wash it with my merinos in cold/warm gentle cycle with Woolite and always hang dry, of course. It does turn a little stiff after many washings but by then it's usually worn out anyway and ready to be replaced. I like finding the men's Tall tops, with the longer waist length and longer sleeves. Cabelas and Wintersilks are the only places I've found decent lightweight long-sleeve silk turtlenecks.

Thanks, I'll check out your sources. I never thought of silk as a winter fabric, though. Does it have any advantages over Marino wool, besides comfort? (Cheap or worn Marino, I should note for others, can be a bit scratchy, but it's still softer than old, basic wool).

[Tipi Walter]

Thanks, I'll check out your sources. I never thought of silk as a winter fabric, though. Does it have any advantages over Marino wool, besides comfort? (Cheap or worn Marino, I should note for others, can be a bit scratchy, but it's still softer than old, basic wool).

This has been a long discussion with no clear answers as no one seems to know. Which is better, merino or silk? Silk tops are available in heavy weight and as thick as merino, and for several years I used these silk tops sandwiched together to form a good winter midlayer. Silk makes a great baselayer against the skin, otherwise I'll stick with my Smartwool midweight tops and Icebreaker zipneck tops with the sleeve thumb-holes.

[hikerboy57]

This has been a long discussion with no clear answers as no one seems to know. Which is better, merino or silk? Silk tops are available in heavy weight and as thick as merino, and for several years I used these silk tops sandwiched together to form a good winter midlayer. Silk makes a great baselayer against the skin, otherwise I'll stick with my Smartwool midweight tops and Icebreaker zipneck tops with the sleeve thumb-holes.theyre both great insulaters, but I cant wear wool. even cashmere makes me itch. My current bas e layer of choice, though is a columbia waffle weave l/s crew that wicks away perspiration instantly, keeps me drier under a pack than anything else ive tried. I bought it several yrs ago at a BigBobs for $1, wish I had more.

[ALLEGHENY]

Wickers is having a 20% sale.

[clsvideo]

My layering system is as follows:

Top: Patagonia Cap1 long sleeve, Marmot Midweight Long Sleeve, Montbell Eldo synthetic jacket
Bottoms: Hot Chillies Midweight bottoms, Patagonia Cap3 bottoms

That keeps me comfy in camp down to the low 30's. I've gone lower with a good camp fire going. Then I shed what I need to to be comfortable in my 35 degree sleeping bag.

[Ironbelly]

I am assuming you probably wont go too much below 0F if at all being new to winter backpacking. But my standard for winter backpacking down to -30F in camp is:
Head: Smartwool balaclava, and Smartwool beanie, synthetic hood off an old jacket. (balaclava and beanie mainly used when active, and hood is more for camp, but i use a combo of all of depending on the temps)
Torso: Capaline 3 top, wool sweater, patagonia nano puff, waxed cotton down jacket, and a ECWCS goretex parka(rarely need this for in camp, but i have it along for a hardshell while hiking if needed)
Legs: Capaline 2, cabelas down pants, winter weight bdu pants, and ECWCS goretex pants(rarely need these in camp, same deal as the parka)
Feet: smartwool liners, smartwool mountaineering socks, down booties or my TNF arctic pull on boots
Hands: marmot stretch wrist gaitors, fingerless rag wool gloves(for camp chores), OR flurry gloves, OR endeavor mitts

I do not always use all of the items, using everything i was perfectly fine at -30F. I vary my system layers as needed and am very comfortable from -15F to 32F.

[gollwoods]

Wickers is having a 20% sale.

wickers are pretty nice

[10-K]

Tipi - where do you buy your Wintersilks from - direct?

[Feral Bill]

I always take a light wool or synthetic scarf. Weighs about an ounce and greatly improves the warmth of an otherwise decent outfit. It can also replace a lost beanie if needed. Cheap, light, and warm: you can't beat that.

[Papa D]

Tipi's list is very good and complete - I take it down pretty low sometimes and I don't carry down pants or down booties - I just have a -20 W.M down sleeping bag and get inside it when I'm in camp. I'm usually pretty cold in the teens or single digits - where it gets hard is in the 30s when it can be wet and you have to be exceedingly careful NOT to wear your down outside your tent AT ALL - what has not been mentioned yet - and I think it goes hand in hand with clothing (since the OP is a self titled newbie) is that proper food and hydration are very important for warmth - this will warm you up in camp:

Warm beverages - take enough fuel to make plenty
Good hydration
Carbohydrate rich foods -- one of my cold weather staples is warm oatmeal and peanut butter mixed

Pee before you go to sleep and sleep with a well sealed hot water bottle (nalgene) if you want to.

[Papa D]

in the prev. post, I meant to say "pretty good in teens or single digits"

[Tipi Walter]

I'm usually pretty cold in the teens or single digits - where it gets hard is in the 30s when it can be wet and you have to be exceedingly careful NOT to wear your down outside your tent AT ALL -

Pee before you go to sleep and sleep with a well sealed hot water bottle (nalgene) if you want to.

The valuable down items are kept dry in all conditions by a sort of heightened sense of awareness to keep the stuff dry always. It's a sort of sixth sense backpackers develop with their down items---the sleeping bag, the jacket, and the down pants if used. I often hear hikers say they "won't carry a down bag because it could get wet", and instead opt for a synthetic. And yet in no situation will a down bag get wet enough to matter under proper usage---barring high-creek fording mishaps or tent destruction in a freak storm.

As Papa D relates, the trickiest time in winter camping is with a 35F rain/sleet storm, when it's too warm to snow but too cold to be comfortable. The down layers will not be used outside the shelter in these conditions, and the main piece of important gear becomes your top-of-the-line rain jacket---like an Arcteryx gtx with the proshell fabric. This one item has saved my butt on numerous occasions.

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi - where do you buy your Wintersilks from - direct?

Check out Wintersilks and their five level "warmth factor" stuff:

http://www.wintersilks.com/warmthfactors.aspx?icid=AL1UA&

And check out:

http://www.wintersilks.com/products.aspx?BRANCH=1~14~&dept=Silk+Long+Underwear-Mens+Tall+Sizes

[Del Q]

Tipi rules on this topic in my view, but, I will take a different spin on this.

Once you get moving it is usually toasty warm. Layer up during breaks, eat properly, stay hydrated.

There is going to be some level of discomfort when backpacking and camping in the cold, the toughest for me is from when you get up to when you get moving. With a proper sleeping bag, clothes and pad (the ground is often the culprit of cold), it is of course mostly mental.

I also started carrying a "pee" bottle so I do not have to get out of my tent at 4am to pee, sorry girls, another "P" advantage.

The other bit of courage is GETTING OUT of your sleeping bag when it is warm and toasty inside!!!

[Papa D]

As Tipi rightly agreed, the worst conditions occur at 33 degrees to about 45 degrees when it's wet - you will feel much colder in this weather - and should guard against hypothermia than when it's between 15 degrees and 32 degrees - a pretty easy to work with range (now, when it gets down below 10 degrees, things get tricky again but then, only certifiably nut-ball people like me (and probably Tipi Walter) are out). He also mentions something I think is critically important and that is a top of the line rain jacket - like an Arcteryx - with a hard shell fabric -- if it's going to be in the 30s and wet, you absolutely must have this piece - I really see no other way around it other than just sitting in your tent or shelter until it dries out. Just so you posters know, while I travel a little lighter than Tipi does, he is absolutely THE authority on comfortable cold weather camping in the Southeast, period. I've seen that guy with a big smile well below zero at high elevations in Joyce Kilmer Citico Creek Wilderness - which is probably (on average) a touch colder and wilder than the GSMNP.