Master Cleanse and Backpacking?

[Transient Being]

Ok, I'm sure some of you are gonna think this is completely insane, and I can appreciate that, but I would really like to know from anybody who has actually TRIED this, not just uneducated opinions. For those of you who don't know what the master cleanse is, it's lemon juice, maple syrup, and cayenne pepper, and water. That's all you consume. I'm currently on day 16 and feel great really. I can tell it's really getting the crap out of my body. I feel 10 years younger! Anyway, each glass of the lemonade is 100 calories, and I'm normally drinking 6 a day, so 600 calories. I can have as many as 12 a day (1200 calories) Has anybody done this and backpacked? I'm sure I will not be as fast as I would be with food, but if I can make 8 miles or so a day, I will be happy.

[mattmc89]

I would think you might have issues with weight loss as you couldn't easily replace that fat that you will burn. I was eating protein bars, strait jars of Nutella, ect... and still dropped 10-15 pounds in the first 500 miles. I was 160~5'11~20 years old

[Odd Man Out]

I think all "cleanse" treatments are full of crap. Exactly what crap are you getting out of your body (and please don't say "toxins") and how exactly does maple syrup, cayenne, and lemon juice do that? Biochemically, physiologically, and nutritionally this makes no sense whatsoever.

[Transient Being]

Keep on thinkin' and I'll keep on knowin'. You need to do some research on fasting pops.

[scope]

First of all, keep us posted because I for one am very interested in trying it. I can't say I really buy the whole "toxins" thing, but I also think I'd be a fool to say its total crap.

Secondly, as far as backpacking and doing the master cleanse, this method has more in common with fasting than it does with dieting. All I've ever seen on fasting says to limit you other activities during the fast. Besides the practical aspects of carrying fresh lemons to squeeze on the trail, it doesn't sound to me like doing both is a good idea.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Keep on thinkin' and I'll keep on knowin'. You need to do some research on fasting pops.
And you might want to research Stanley Burroughs and the health issues associated with following fad diets. Fair is fair.

[The Cleaner]

I think all "cleanse" treatments are full of crap. Exactly what crap are you getting out of your body (and please don't say "toxins") and how exactly does maple syrup, cayenne, and lemon juice do that? Biochemically, physiologically, and nutritionally this makes no sense whatsoever.I think your first statement is bass ackwards.These"treatments" are supposed to get crap out of you....just sayin'....

[Shutterbug]

Ok, I'm sure some of you are gonna think this is completely insane, and I can appreciate that, but I would really like to know from anybody who has actually TRIED this, not just uneducated opinions. For those of you who don't know what the master cleanse is, it's lemon juice, maple syrup, and cayenne pepper, and water. That's all you consume. I'm currently on day 16 and feel great really. I can tell it's really getting the crap out of my body. I feel 10 years younger! Anyway, each glass of the lemonade is 100 calories, and I'm normally drinking 6 a day, so 600 calories. I can have as many as 12 a day (1200 calories) Has anybody done this and backpacked? I'm sure I will not be as fast as I would be with food, but if I can make 8 miles or so a day, I will be happy.

I have never done a cleanse while hiking, but I often do a 9 day cleanse before I start. I do two 9 day Isogenix Cleanses each year. Since starting that practice, my LDL count has dropped to below 50 and total cholesterol is below 100. I keep up my normal 3 miles a day during the clease, but schedule the cleanse to be over before I undertake a multi-day hike.

[Transient Being]

Did your weight stabilize after that? (Did you do the whole trail or something? 500 miles, cool!)

[Transient Being]

I have never done a cleanse while hiking, but I often do a 9 day cleanse before I start. I do two 9 day Isogenix Cleanses each year. Since starting that practice, my LDL count has dropped to below 50 and total cholesterol is below 100. I keep up my normal 3 miles a day during the clease, but schedule the cleanse to be over before I undertake a multi-day hike.

Yes...the cleanses/fast really seem to help me out. That's great that you're cholesterol improved like that! I can feel my body getting healthier right now! My eyes are clearer, my senses are sharpened, my skin and hair even looks and feels healthier. I didn't even need to loose weight, I just like doing it because I know my body likes it, even if my tongue and stomach don't!

[sarbar]

Do what feels good for you. But if you are planning on this for a thru hike I have a strong feeling you will be very let down. It is human nature to eat real food, not drink their food - one reason "diets" of shakes and liquids fail. The need to chew takes over. The high that a new diet provides to the brain can only last so long before the craving for pure crap food comes out on long hikes.

As for dealing with cholesterol? Cut back animal based saturated fats for one, eat more binders like oats, chia and flaxseed meal and it will go down promptly as well. And you get to chew. Just saying. (I know, I cut mine and my husband's in half in under 3 months by going on a near vegan diet high in fiber, veggies and whole grains with a lot less meat and no eggs).

But again, if it works for you great. Doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

[Transient Being]

Oh no, I wouldn't do a thru hike. I'm thinking for 7 to 12 days, covering about 80 miles or so.

[Pedaling Fool]

Yes...the cleanses/fast really seem to help me out. That's great that you're cholesterol improved like that! I can feel my body getting healthier right now! My eyes are clearer, my senses are sharpened, my skin and hair even looks and feels healthier. I didn't even need to loose weight, I just like doing it because I know my body likes it, even if my tongue and stomach don't!Be careful it's very easy to fool yourself; I know the feeling. Personally, I'm very regular, not because I've ever used a cleansing product, but because I eat a lot of veggies and oat meal, loaded with fiber, which keeps you very clean -- actually if you're not careful you can get too much fiber, but that's a little off topic. I really can't see how lemon juice, maple syrup, and cayenne pepper will do any better, or even as good as my diet.

[Spokes]

Toxins in the body? Really?

Master Cleanse Diet = Master Scam (http://www.everydayhealth.com/blog/zimney-health-and-medical-news-you-can-use/master-cleanse-diet-master-scam/)

[hikerboy57]

toxins in the body? thats why we sweat and urinate.I would expect after hiking 2000 miles, you wont worry about your cholestoral either.drink water. its one of the best body cleansers on the market. pretty cheap too.

[Transient Being]

When did I ever say toxins? Everybody else has been saying that. But if you want to know, yes I believe it removes toxins too.

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_11808927
http://www.allaboutfasting.com/benefits-of-fasting.html
(http://www.allaboutfasting.com/benefits-of-fasting.html)http://www.gaianstudies.org/articles4.htm

Go ahead and give me some links to negative reviews. For every one, I can give you ten positive ones. For all of you naysayers, how many of you have actually tried to fast or do the master cleanse? Fasting has been a proven health remedy for thousands of years. Oh, wait a minute, modern doctors don't recommend fasting. My bad. I AM wrong, aren't I! They will be happy to prescribe some magical pill that you will have to take for the rest of your life. How amazing they are! Did you know medical schools and the books they use to teach are all well funded by the drug companies? Guess what they teach the doctors these days? Drugs and Surgery. Nothing else. Not even nutrition which we should all know by now plays a major role in health. Don't you get it? They don't want you to be healthy. They want you to be sick and dependent on some of their pills for the rest of your life. So go ahead and believe the small number of negative reviews surrounding the vast ammount of positive reactions and never try it for yourself and let quacks like me reap all the benefits for ourselves.

Another thing I would like to mention is that if you eat a healthy diet with alot of health food and plenty of outdoor activity and exercise you probably are pretty clean and healthy inside. I on the other hand eat basically whatever I think taste good. I try to eat healthy, but I eat chili dogs and potato chips with pepsi sometimes, frozen pizzas sometimes, fast food too many times. Look around, 2/3 of america is overweight. I'm not even overweight at all, I'm 6' 170 pound male. I still get benefits from fasting and Master Cleansing. Not just physical, but spiritual, emotional, mental benefits. I can think more clearly, and feel overall happy and relaxed. Sorry to have upset some of you that think it criminal to miss a meal or too. lol.

[Transient Being]

http://www.greekmedicine.net/hygiene/Fasting_and_Purification.html

(http://www.greekmedicine.net/hygiene/Fasting_and_Purification.html)Here's something else to consider. Hippocrates, the Father of Modern Medicine believed in fasting.

Basically, there are two kinds of purposes or objectives for fasting. Men fast for either spiritual or physical reasons, and both are equally valid.

Spiritually, fasting helps us transcend our addiction and attachment to food, and to realize that man doesn't live by bread alone. The mind gets clearer, and spiritual awareness deepens. Freed from having to satisfy physical hunger, one can then turn one's attention to feeding the mind and spirit. Spiritual masters like Pythagoras wouldn't admit any disciple into their higher teachings unless they had first purified themselves through fasting.
Physically, fasting enables the organism to detoxify and clean house. Because the vast majority of diseases are caused by autointoxication,
fasting has wide-ranging therapeutic benefits. It also gives the digestive organs a much needed rest.
For all fevers and diseases in the acute crisis stage, Hippocrates prescribed either a strict fast with nothing but water or medicinal teas, or a very slender liquid diet. Fasting is also recommended for colds and flu, arthritis and rheumatism, digestive complaints, and all humoral and metabolic disorders.
Scientific experiments conducted on laboratory mice have shown that severe restriction of caloric intake greatly extends their lifespan. Since this is basically what fasting is, fasting holds great promise for life extension.

[hikerboy57]

I fully believe the key to long life is a combination of genetics, attitude, and luck.Im 54 yrs old, still smoke, have McDs regularly, and eat chinese food almost everyday(usually chicken w/ broccoli).I havent been sick for more than a day, not so much as a cold, in over 25 years.I run 5 miles 3-4 times a week,without getting winded, and I truly beieve my immune system is strong enough to fight off any infection. Ive worked wirth people with the flu around me all day, and still dont become affected.I think the most important factor in living a long life is attitude, not diet or anything else. I agree with you about doctors prescribing ineffective drugs for no reason but profit. (I also have this nagging doubt that if I finally give up smoking, start fasting, Ill end up getting hit by a bus or something)
but if f asting is what does it for you, well then go for it!FYOF

[The Cleaner]

toxins in the body? thats why we sweat and urinate.I would expect after hiking 2000 miles, you wont worry about your cholestoral either.drink water. its one of the best body cleansers on the market. pretty cheap too.Fresh mountian air is a pretty good deal too......

[hikerboy57]

i should also mention hiking is one of the best stress reducers going, and stress is a primary factor in over 90% of all disease.

[quilteresq]

I would expect after hiking 2000 miles, you wont worry about your cholestoral

My cholesterol went down 70 points on thyroid therapy, from really lousy to quite acceptable. My diet didn't change much.

[Smile]

First off. lemons are heavy, juicing them correctly on trail would be a nightmare, not to mention you need about 15 lemons a day to make enough juice.

Second. Grade B Maple Syrup is heavy, and usually comes in a glass or metal container. This is heavy, and will get sticky with your measuring, etc.

Third. Resupply for these two ingredients can be a problem, and the amount of lemon peels you will leave behind (hopefully you will pack them out) will be significant - lemons don't biodegrade easily (most citrus takes longer).

Fourth. Your Senna Tea you must drink at night, and the ensuing one quart of water in the a.m. with sea/celtic salt is really crucial to removing toxins along the way. It's a hassle at home to have this sort of bout of "bowel drama" let alone on trail. Your water also has to be filtered, this is A LOT of water, for juicing, for night senna tea and for your quart of salt water in the a.m.

Last but not least. This is going to drain you incredibly your first 3-5 days. The detox is fast, severe, and you can have one heck of a headache - especially if you're a coffee drinker and have not weaned down. Weaning down on your regular food is imperative too.

Try it at home first for ten days, then think about what this would be like on trail. IMHO - do it at home, the trail can be cleansing enough emotionally, physically and spiritually.

I wish you the best whatever your choice is! :)

[Transient Being]

First off. lemons are heavy, juicing them correctly on trail would be a nightmare, not to mention you need about 15 lemons a day to make enough juice.

Second. Grade B Maple Syrup is heavy, and usually comes in a glass or metal container. This is heavy, and will get sticky with your measuring, etc.

Third. Resupply for these two ingredients can be a problem, and the amount of lemon peels you will leave behind (hopefully you will pack them out) will be significant - lemons don't biodegrade easily (most citrus takes longer).

Fourth. Your Senna Tea you must drink at night, and the ensuing one quart of water in the a.m. with sea/celtic salt is really crucial to removing toxins along the way. It's a hassle at home to have this sort of bout of "bowel drama" let alone on trail. Your water also has to be filtered, this is A LOT of water, for juicing, for night senna tea and for your quart of salt water in the a.m.

Last but not least. This is going to drain you incredibly your first 3-5 days. The detox is fast, severe, and you can have one heck of a headache - especially if you're a coffee drinker and have not weaned down. Weaning down on your regular food is imperative too.

Try it at home first for ten days, then think about what this would be like on trail. IMHO - do it at home, the trail can be cleansing enough emotionally, physically and spiritually.

I wish you the best whatever your choice is! :)

Well, sounds like you know alot about it. I am actually on day 16 right now and was thinking about going 30-40 days and going to the mountains on the last days. You're right, the first days are the hardest, and I wouldn't recommend anybody to try to backpack until your body has become used to the fast/master cleanse. I did two 8 hour days at a sawmill on my 12th and 13th day of the cleanse. Pretty strenuous labor. Nobody knew anything different, because I was working just as hard as the guys that had breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So I feel like the energy is there.

Actually I'm only using 4 lemons per day right now for 6 glasses of lemonade, the minimum recommended ammount. I could do 12 and that would be 8 lemons per day. As for the maple syrup, I could always pour it in plastic bottles. I would need between 1 and 1-1/2 cups per day of the syrup, so that would be like 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound per day for syrup and about 1-1/2 pounds of lemons per day. So a little over two pounds per day. I also thought about squeezing enough lemon juice for the first two or three days. Wonder how long lemon juice would be good for? I was thinking just skipping the salt water flush, or just doing it every 2-3 days, because you're right, it is the most unpleasant part of it all. I'm not gonna be out there trying to make a new distance record, but just to enjoy myself and nature.

[Panzer1]

what would you do with all the used lemons. Once you have squeesed the juice out of them would you carry them out or just toss them.

Panzer

[GuyMonday]

Why is it that toxin flushes never focus on the kidneys or liver, and fasts always involve foods that provide very little of the daily essential nutrients used for energy production, digestion, and living/breathing?

What ever happened to the thousand year old diet of eating whatever the hell you want, as long as you get the needed nutrients, and using the excess as energy for working out / hiking? Seems odd to me that so many people will fast and have no energy, saying that they feel like they have more energy than they did when they ate, yet forcing your body into one of the most grueling and health-restoring hike requires 3,000-4,000 calories a day.

I'll stop knocking on fasting because I don't know enough about it, just that I've heard more bad than good (still need to do more proper research), but there is one thing I feel I should mention to anyone fasting to lose weight (not that the original poster is): If you're trying to lose weight, the LAST thing you ever want to do is cut fat out of your diet. When you go long enough without fat, you get the benefits of a slowed down metabolism and slim down, but be prepared never to have fat again, or your body will hold onto any bit of fat you put in afterwards (our bodies are programmed to store fat after not having it for periods of time for 'hibernation', and fear that it won't get fat again for a while).

The secret to a healthy body weight is balance, not abstinence.

[Transient Being]

what would you do with all the used lemons. Once you have squeesed the juice out of them would you carry them out or just toss them.

Panzer

What would you do with them?

[max patch]

I don't believe in the "cleanse" nor would I suggest anyone do it while backpacking for obvious (to me, anyway) reasons.

However, if the OP wants to try it I'm going to give him a pass on all those lemons and maple syrup he's going to carry. Why? Everyone carries something that "stupid" - at least thats what others hikers think. I carried 3 books at all times on my thru (in additon to maps, state guidebooks, and a handbook.) I hiked for a while with a guy who carried a chair. Not one of the light thermarest convertable jobs. A deck type chair with an aluminum frame and nylon webbings. Someone else carried a plastic pink flamingo to "guard his tent" at tight. The lemons are the OPs stupid item.

[Smile]

Actually I'm only using 4 lemons per day right now for 6 glasses of lemonade, the minimum recommended ammount.

For hiking LD ( I think you were considering 80 miles or so), I'd seriously consider upping your juice. Keep in mind the tea and the morning flush - without this, you can get seriously ill without the flushing action - you'll have no food to move thing along ( as you know now how it feels this many days in) and the weight loss could really do some damage when you're body starts using it's own protein (muscle) to feed itself.

So you're well into it now, and you know that you can be completely uninterested in drinking the liquids and that hunger can be almost non-existent at this point. I really would have to think that adding the physical stress of a hike during that long of a fast could damage you, and out there, you need your strength for so many factors you did not plan on. Hypothermia being your #1 enemy even when you're eating a regular diet, and without some real food this could escalate that danger.

Enjoy your cleanse, be careful and stay home for now, it's chilly out there!! :)

[Panzer1]

What would you do with them?
I think the only responsible thing would be to carry them out. But of course that would add a certain amount of weight to your pack. But I thik the whole idea is not practical for long distance hiking.

You can loose weight just by hiking. You don't need any fancy diets on the trail. You just need to hike.

Panzer

[Transient Being]

Why is it that toxin flushes never focus on the kidneys or liver, and fasts always involve foods that provide very little of the daily essential nutrients used for energy production, digestion, and living/breathing?

What ever happened to the thousand year old diet of eating whatever the hell you want, as long as you get the needed nutrients, and using the excess as energy for working out / hiking? Seems odd to me that so many people will fast and have no energy, saying that they feel like they have more energy than they did when they ate, yet forcing your body into one of the most grueling and health-restoring hike requires 3,000-4,000 calories a day.

I'll stop knocking on fasting because I don't know enough about it, just that I've heard more bad than good (still need to do more proper research), but there is one thing I feel I should mention to anyone fasting to lose weight (not that the original poster is): If you're trying to lose weight, the LAST thing you ever want to do is cut fat out of your diet. When you go long enough without fat, you get the benefits of a slowed down metabolism and slim down, but be prepared never to have fat again, or your body will hold onto any bit of fat you put in afterwards (our bodies are programmed to store fat after not having it for periods of time for 'hibernation', and fear that it won't get fat again for a while).

The secret to a healthy body weight is balance, not abstinence.

I've actually been on a few week long backpacking trips, and have come to the strange realization that I eat LESS than I would sitting around the house. There is a thread going now about this. For some reason, it takes a week or so for that ravenous appetite to show up. I think it is because when you begin a hike, your body starts burning all those fat reserves in your body. I think in that respect fasting and backpacking have some commonalities. What I'm afraid of, is that I have already burned alot of those fat reserves off since fasting. I have a very nice six-pack going right now :) So I'm afraid that ravenous appetite will show up much sooner. If it does, I'll just cut back a little on my mileage.

What ever happened to the thousand year old diet of eating whatever the hell you want, as long as you get the needed nutrients, and using the excess as energy for working out / hiking?

Trust me, It's still out there. Just look around at all the overweight and obese people that are everywhere.

Tell me, where have you heard bad things about fasting? Is it from people who have fasted? Or is it from people who just like to knock anything that is different than what they are used to? People used to think the world was flat too. I've heard the thing about, "oh, it will mess up your metabolism and you will gain a bunch of weight when you stop" Baloney! I did a 21 day master cleanse about 2 years ago and lost 13 pounds. Went from 175 to 162. I gained back exactly what I lost. It was if I had never done it from a weight standpoint. I felt renewed and energized.

[GuyMonday]

What ever happened to the thousand year old diet of eating whatever the hell you want, as long as you get the needed nutrients, and using the excess as energy for working out / hiking?

Trust me, It's still out there. Just look around at all the overweight and obese people that are everywhere.

I doubt the overweight/obese people are using the excess as energy for working out like I said above.

And I heard bad from my nutritionist when I was trying to figure out how to change my metabolism to put on weight (I've been in the 150-155 range for about 8 years). That, and when my sister's friend tried doing a master cleanse and ended up at the doctors with gastro-intestinal problems after a 6-day stretch of following the diet to a T, I wrote it off.

But again, trying to be at least somewhat respectful, you forgot to quote me on the part where I said that I obviously hadn't done enough research on it to pass accurate judgement.

If you'd like to educate me, please do. I'll try to be more respectful in my next post and more open-minded. I just get turned away from all these posts about how great cleansing is where it sounds like an infomercial very vaguely talking about all the benefits, but no one can tell me why a diet of only cayenne peppers, vitamin c, ascorbic acid, and sugar is a healthy choice. And why were those chosen as the best cleansing materials (for toxins or fat)? It just sounds like intentional starving to me, but again: you know much more about it than I.

I'll never turn down a free education. Change my opinion and I'll change my diet; I promise.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Let's see,
A diet deficient in calories, proteins, amino acids, vitamins, minerals, fiber, and fat. So since the body requires-make that demands these nutrients-it starts converting what it has. It will convert some fat stores. But in other than low exertion situations, the body can't covert fat fast enough to keep up with demand, so it starts converting lean muscle as well. So if you are hiking (high exertion) and only supplying the body with a nutrient deficient diet, you will be converting not only stored fat but a lot of muscle mass as well to supply the body's need for nutrients. Add to that the additional demand for proteins and amino acids for muscle recovery / cell repair due to strenuous nature of hiking.

Yeah, this sounds healthy. :rolleyes:

[Pedaling Fool]

I've actually been on a few week long backpacking trips, and have come to the strange realization that I eat LESS than I would sitting around the house. There is a thread going now about this. For some reason, it takes a week or so for that ravenous appetite to show up. I think it is because when you begin a hike, your body starts burning all those fat reserves in your body. I think in that respect fasting and backpacking have some commonalities. What I'm afraid of, is that I have already burned alot of those fat reserves off since fasting. I have a very nice six-pack going right now :) So I'm afraid that ravenous appetite will show up much sooner. If it does, I'll just cut back a little on my mileage.Yes it's very common; it actually took ~two weeks for my appetite to start to shoot upward. No, it's not because your body starts buring all those fat reserves. I still had ample fat when my appetite started climbing rapidly. It's the shock to your system of going from a sedentary lifestyle (relatively speaking) to hiking hours a day, day-after-day, not to mention going up and down hills with weight on your back.

The ravenous appetite comes from basically starving yourself, much like fasting, except in this case you're tearing up your body, so it's even more important to get as many calories and nutrients in your body. So yes in sense hiking is much like fasting for most because every day is usually (I know it is for the way I hike) a deficit in calories, i.e. I always burn more calories than I take in. That's what leads to the hiker appetite.

[Transient Being]

Ok, I never said it was the best diet for backpacking. That's why I'm on here asking about it. I really would rather just drink nothing but water, but I get so weak. That's how I found out about the master cleanse. I was doing some research on fasting and came across it. Don't believe in fasting? Fine, join the majority. I knew when I posted this that the majority of people would be against it. One thing I've learned over the years though, is just because the majority of people believe one way or another, doesn't make them right. I know for a fact that fasting helps me. I can't describe exactly how, and I don't really want to. I feel lighter, calmer, more peaceful, healthier, more flexible, sleep better, more relaxed. My senses are sharper, my skin feels healtier, my eyes are bright and the whites are whiter than ever, my hair is softer and shiny. It's not just in my head either, because I've got a few compliments lately. I feel like I'm giving my body a rest and my mind becomes more clear. I love to eat too, and have been dreaming of eating a big steak and a lobster tail, or some hotwings, or some mexican food!!!! It all sounds so good. But I know it will still be there in 10, 20, 30, or 40 days. I suppose I'm like everybody else. I like what I like, and I don't what I don't. I enjoy taking a break from food and all the cooking, cleaning, shopping that is involved. Fasting is Biblical, so all the atheist can attack me now, but if you call yourself a Christian as I do, you should try to fast. Jesus and Moses both fasted for 40 days, and fasting is mentioned like 50 times in the Bible. It is scientific. Show me some negative studies. I'm sure I can come up with just as many positive studies. Just do a google search "benefits of fasting" You will see countless pages praising the benefits of it. I've been 21 days on lemonade, and some days I just drink water if I don't have much to do that day (like on my days off) So it's not gonna kill you to go one day without eating. Try it for yourself, you may be surprised. Or you can just continue to eat three meals a day, day after day, for the rest of your life. What's so great about that?

[Doc Mike]

I've been waiting and watching to see where this goes.

Here is my medical opinion
Cleansing is BS yes you clean your colon which happens naturally anyhow if you have some fiber in the diet. Read the label on these products "not intended to diagnose or treat any condition" that is on there because there is not one study in a peer reviewed journal that shows any health benifit.


Now to debunk some of the reasons from earlier. Early medicine believed fasting was good........they also believed in blood letting and bad humours.
The Bible says it is good that i agree with but only for spiritual reasons.

Do I believe you feel as good as you say you do? absolutely. The placebo affect is between 20-50 percent with any drug or therapy. If you convince your brain you feel good then you do. For example numerous studies of high blood pressure medicine versus placebo. In the placebo group about 20 percent will have a drop in blood pressure with taking a active drug at all.


Now before you start discounted what I've said I've seen the insides of lots of colons (hundreds) and haven't seen a large pile of toxins or anything that needed cleansed.


Thats my .02

Doc Mike

[hikerboy57]

not to mention a whole new generation of new, improved placebos.I swear by them.

[Pedaling Fool]

Ok, I never said it was the best diet for backpacking. That's why I'm on here asking about it. I really would rather just drink nothing but water, but I get so weak. That's how I found out about the master cleanse. I was doing some research on fasting and came across it. Don't believe in fasting? Fine, join the majority. I knew when I posted this that the majority of people would be against it. One thing I've learned over the years though, is just because the majority of people believe one way or another, doesn't make them right. I know for a fact that fasting helps me. I can't describe exactly how, and I don't really want to. I feel lighter, calmer, more peaceful, healthier, more flexible, sleep better, more relaxed. My senses are sharper, my skin feels healtier, my eyes are bright and the whites are whiter than ever, my hair is softer and shiny. It's not just in my head either, because I've got a few compliments lately. I feel like I'm giving my body a rest and my mind becomes more clear. I love to eat too, and have been dreaming of eating a big steak and a lobster tail, or some hotwings, or some mexican food!!!! It all sounds so good. But I know it will still be there in 10, 20, 30, or 40 days. I suppose I'm like everybody else. I like what I like, and I don't what I don't. I enjoy taking a break from food and all the cooking, cleaning, shopping that is involved. Fasting is Biblical, so all the atheist can attack me now, but if you call yourself a Christian as I do, you should try to fast. Jesus and Moses both fasted for 40 days, and fasting is mentioned like 50 times in the Bible. It is scientific. Show me some negative studies. I'm sure I can come up with just as many positive studies. Just do a google search "benefits of fasting" You will see countless pages praising the benefits of it. I've been 21 days on lemonade, and some days I just drink water if I don't have much to do that day (like on my days off) So it's not gonna kill you to go one day without eating. Try it for yourself, you may be surprised. Or you can just continue to eat three meals a day, day after day, for the rest of your life. What's so great about that?I'm indifferent about fasting; it's the claim by this "cleansing program" that one can only cleanse the system through the use of lemon juice, maple syrup, cayenne pepper, and water. That's simply just false. I can eat the biggest, fattest juciest steak and I guarantee it's not going to be in my system for 10 plus days. Both because of my active lifestyle and the abundant fiberous foods I eat. I know the "John Wayne" stories, but they're false http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/fecalcolon.asp. However, that's not to say that foodstuff does NOT get caught in the colon, it does. However, nature already has a cure, a simple diet of fiber and yes, less red meat, but not zero.

If you think that cleansing program is working for you, keep up with it, but don't try and cut calories on the trail. I think that pretty much sums up what others are saying. Personally I think too much is put on eating and diets and not enough of the other integral part of a healthy body -- exercise.

[Transient Being]

I've been waiting and watching to see where this goes.

Here is my medical opinion
Cleansing is BS yes you clean your colon which happens naturally anyhow if you have some fiber in the diet. Read the label on these products "not intended to diagnose or treat any condition" that is on there because there is not one study in a peer reviewed journal that shows any health benifit.

No, that's on there because the overbearing and suppressive FDA is basically owned by drug companies who do whatever they can to suppress natural remedies which threaten drug company profits. Same thing with medical journals....straight owned by drug companies. So are Medical schools.

Now to debunk some of the reasons from earlier. Early medicine believed fasting was good........they also believed in blood letting and bad humours.

That's only one reason, and you really gave no proof.

The Bible says it is good that i agree with but only for spiritual reasons.

Do I believe you feel as good as you say you do? absolutely. The placebo affect is between 20-50 percent with any drug or therapy. If you convince your brain you feel good then you do. For example numerous studies of high blood pressure medicine versus placebo. In the placebo group about 20 percent will have a drop in blood pressure with taking a active drug at all.

Gee, thanks, I've never heard of the placebo effect before.


Now before you start discounted what I've said I've seen the insides of lots of colons (hundreds) and haven't seen a large pile of toxins or anything that needed cleansed.

That's because the toxins are stored in the fat that you burn off, not the colon. Although it also cleanse impacted fecal matter from the colon, which is an acknowledged medical condition.


Thats my .02

Doc Mike

Try again.

[hikerboy57]

as I was thinking "I'll take chinese medicine over greek medicine any day" i got curious as to "Chinese fasting", so I googled it, and found a very interesting link, which may even help explain why one loses appetite the first few weeks on the trail:http://www.yinyanghouse.com/practitioner_members/general-lifestyle/pigu-fasting-theory.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Fasting isn't healthy. Neither is gluttony. People just need to eat a balanced nutrient rich diet and exercise, and burn the same number of calories than they take in if weight maintenance is the goal. It's really quite simple in theory - it's doing it that is the challenge. Regardless, going on starvation diets isn't healthy even for just a few days. It screws up your electrolyte levels, your blood sugar, your digestive tract, and the general chemical balance in your body - including your brain. The only healthy way to diet to lose weight is to run just a slight calorie deficit so that the body slowly converts fat stores.

There are many instances of the results of prolonged fasting / malnutrition on humans throughout history. Perhaps the most notorious in recent history occurred in the Nazi concentration camps - the prisoners got between 600 and 1200 calories a day from 1943 on once rations were reduced - more than the Master Cleanse diet. We've all seen the pictures. There is no question as to the outcome. For more recent examples of starvation level diets, just google "Ethiopian famine".

Fasting for a day for religious or medical purposes is no big deal. But for any extended period, it's just the beginning of slowly killing the body.

[Transient Being]

Be careful it's very easy to fool yourself; I know the feeling. Personally, I'm very regular, not because I've ever used a cleansing product, but because I eat a lot of veggies and oat meal, loaded with fiber, which keeps you very clean -- actually if you're not careful you can get too much fiber, but that's a little off topic. I really can't see how lemon juice, maple syrup, and cayenne pepper will do any better, or even as good as my diet.

I'm sure you're right about that. Unfortunately, I don't eat as well as I should. I've always been kinda slender, but I can tell that if I'm not careful fat is starting to accumulate around my belly and other areas.


Yes it's very common; it actually took ~two weeks for my appetite to start to shoot upward. No, it's not because your body starts buring all those fat reserves. I still had ample fat when my appetite started climbing rapidly. It's the shock to your system of going from a sedentary lifestyle (relatively speaking) to hiking hours a day, day-after-day, not to mention going up and down hills with weight on your back.

That makes sense. I know it's crazy that you're going through such great exertion, and eating so little.

The ravenous appetite comes from basically starving yourself, much like fasting, except in this case you're tearing up your body, so it's even more important to get as many calories and nutrients in your body. So yes in sense hiking is much like fasting for most because every day is usually (I know it is for the way I hike) a deficit in calories, i.e. I always burn more calories than I take in. That's what leads to the hiker appetite.

Yep.


I'm indifferent about fasting; it's the claim by this "cleansing program" that one can only cleanse the system through the use of lemon juice, maple syrup, cayenne pepper, and water. That's simply just false. I can eat the biggest, fattest juciest steak and I guarantee it's not going to be in my system for 10 plus days. Both because of my active lifestyle and the abundant fiberous foods I eat. I know the "John Wayne" stories, but they're false http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/fecalcolon.asp. However, that's not to say that foodstuff does NOT get caught in the colon, it does. However, nature already has a cure, a simple diet of fiber and yes, less red meat, but not zero.

I'm the same way, I don't feel like you have to have lemon juice, maple syrup and cayenne and it must be 6 glasses a day. I think that any fasting regiment is good. I just stumbled across MC while water fasting....liked the taste and energy...so I just stuck with it.

If you think that cleansing program is working for you, keep up with it, but don't try and cut calories on the trail. I think that pretty much sums up what others are saying. Personally I think too much is put on eating and diets and not enough of the other integral part of a healthy body -- exercise.

Thanks. Preciate the input. Starting to realize that it's probably not a great idea to go for extended time or distance. I may try to schedule a short, maybe 20-30 mile hike into a town, where I can get a room and some rest.

I feel the same way about exercise too. I would rather get 40 hours a week outside working with my hands and body, fresh air, sunshine. That would be great, much better than a fast. Unfortunately, I just don't get it, so I try other things to make up for it. I used to be into motocross racing. I would get ALOT of exercise and outdoor activity. I ate anything I wanted and felt great because of all the exercise I was getting.

[Tipi Walter]

Hey Bird 312---I'm with you on the benefits of fasting. Mention "fasting" in a culture which worships eating and food and of course you're going to get a boatload of defensiveness---as in: you will kill yourself, autolysis, starvation, etc and all the rest. Fact is, most of us are so totally addicted to eating---yes, it's a lust---that the mere thought of fasting sends us into a chortling HOWL.

Most religions recommend periodic fasting, and yoga philosophies deal frequently with going without food for a certain length of time to aid in meditation. Here's my story: I like to juice fast (as in juiced apples and beets and carrots) and a couple years ago I went on a five day backpacking trip and was on a 9 day juice fast during the trip. I do not recommend lugging a heavy pack up a 2,000 foot mountain when you're fasting---but setting up a basecamp along a wilderness creek and staying put for several days is an excellent time to fast.

Paul Bragg, fasting expert, discounts juice fasts and recommends simple water fasts, but for us motards addicted to the tongue and the palate, a juice fast offers a midway point to approach fasting without the drastic exercise of a just-water fast. As they say, it's more important knowing how to break a fast than it is how to start a fast.

[hikerboy57]

theres a yin and a yang to the yoga approach. One can argue fasting leads to clarity of mind, while classic yoga theory simply looks to a disciplined mind, which includes being concious of what you eat.The buddhist/taoist concept of mindfulness also teaches an awareness of what you ingest.

[Pedaling Fool]

Yes it's very common; it actually took ~two weeks for my appetite to start to shoot upward. No, it's not because your body starts buring all those fat reserves. I still had ample fat when my appetite started climbing rapidly. It's the shock to your system of going from a sedentary lifestyle (relatively speaking) to hiking hours a day, day-after-day, not to mention going up and down hills with weight on your back.

The ravenous appetite comes from basically starving yourself, much like fasting, except in this case you're tearing up your body, so it's even more important to get as many calories and nutrients in your body. So yes in sense hiking is much like fasting for most because every day is usually (I know it is for the way I hike) a deficit in calories, i.e. I always burn more calories than I take in. That's what leads to the hiker appetite.BTW, I should clarify that I believe my calorie deficit decreased over time, not because my diet changed, I did keep a pretty regular diet on the trail, but because my body got more efficient. If my calorie deficit remained the same throughout my hike I think I would have been very unhealthy at the end of my hike and in fact many hikers do look pretty bad. I believe that may very well be because of their poor diet of candy bars and such; I ate very healthy on the trail, just a little under in calories, but I really made up for it in town. I never limited my food intake in town. You can see here my belly still had a little fat, nothing wrong with a little fat, again another stupid American idea that we should be 1% body fat, that's just BS.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/6/9/3/6/MyfirstviewofKatahdinfromWhitecapMountain.JPG (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showimage.php?i=18141&original=1&catid=member&imageuser=6936)

[stars in her eyes]

I tried the master cleanse once. The concoction triggered my gag reflex and the feeling it gave me later on -- I felt like something was terribly wrong with my kidneys. I'd never felt anything like it in my life.

The enzymes that combine between the lemon juice and the cayenne pepper literally kill your intestinal bacteria and the resulting gastrointestinal feeling is like being on too strong of a dose of antibiotics.

My tongue turned white, I lost all clarity of thought, and it took over a week for my body to go back to normal. And that was after 3 days of attempting to do this.

Next time I feel the need to "detox," I'll just stop drinking cola.

[Wise Old Owl]

one reads the first page convoluted and confused - so you drink this stuff and it clenches you by projectile craping at high velocity down the trail, propelling you forward???

Wow ..got to get me some of that.... just saying.... thats some sh$t!

I cant read the rest - milk just spurt from my nose....

[Transient Being]

as I was thinking "I'll take chinese medicine over greek medicine any day" i got curious as to "Chinese fasting", so I googled it, and found a very interesting link, which may even help explain why one loses appetite the first few weeks on the trail:http://www.yinyanghouse.com/practitioner_members/general-lifestyle/pigu-fasting-theory.

Interesting, thanks!


Hey Bird 312---I'm with you on the benefits of fasting. Mention "fasting" in a culture which worships eating and food and of course you're going to get a boatload of defensiveness---as in: you will kill yourself, autolysis, starvation, etc and all the rest. Fact is, most of us are so totally addicted to eating---yes, it's a lust---that the mere thought of fasting sends us into a chortling HOWL.

Most religions recommend periodic fasting, and yoga philosophies deal frequently with going without food for a certain length of time to aid in meditation. Here's my story: I like to juice fast (as in juiced apples and beets and carrots) and a couple years ago I went on a five day backpacking trip and was on a 9 day juice fast during the trip. I do not recommend lugging a heavy pack up a 2,000 foot mountain when you're fasting---but setting up a basecamp along a wilderness creek and staying put for several days is an excellent time to fast.

Paul Bragg, fasting expert, discounts juice fasts and recommends simple water fasts, but for us motards addicted to the tongue and the palate, a juice fast offers a midway point to approach fasting without the drastic exercise of a just-water fast. As they say, it's more important knowing how to break a fast than it is how to start a fast.

I knew I wasn't alone. You are so right. Eating is an addiction, and our culture does worship food. It reminds me of a saying, "I've seen fat people, and I've seen old people, but I don't see many fat old people." I've got the book by Paul Bragg. That's how I learned about fasting. It was a blessing.


one reads the first page convoluted and confused - so you drink this stuff and it clenches you by projectile craping at high velocity down the trail, propelling you forward???

Wow ..got to get me some of that.... just saying.... thats some sh$t!

I cant read the rest - milk just spurt from my nose....

What? Seriously, I can't understand what you are trying to say. I think you are saying that you don't agree with fasting or master cleanse. Ok, like I said in my original post, I would like to hear some advice from people who have ACTUALLY TRIED IT! NOT UNEDUCATED OPINIONS!

[Transient Being]

I tried the master cleanse once. The concoction triggered my gag reflex and the feeling it gave me later on -- I felt like something was terribly wrong with my kidneys. I'd never felt anything like it in my life.

The enzymes that combine between the lemon juice and the cayenne pepper literally kill your intestinal bacteria and the resulting gastrointestinal feeling is like being on too strong of a dose of antibiotics.

My tongue turned white, I lost all clarity of thought, and it took over a week for my body to go back to normal. And that was after 3 days of attempting to do this.

Next time I feel the need to "detox," I'll just stop drinking cola.
Stage 1 (Day 1 To Day 2)
On the first day of fasting, the blood sugar level drops below 70 mg/dl. To restore the blood to the normal glucose level, liver glycogen is converted to glucose and released into the blood. This reserve is enough for half a day. The body then reduces the basal metabolic rate (BMR). The rate of internal chemical activity in resting tissue is lowered to conserve energy. The heart slows and blood pressure is reduced. Glycogen is pulled from the muscle causing some weakness. The first wave of cleansing is usually the worst.

Headaches, dizziness, nausea, bad breath, glazed eyes and a heavily coated tongue are signs of the first stage of cleansing. Hunger can be the most intense in this period unless the enema is used which quickly assists the body into the fasting state by ending digestion in the colon.

Too bad you couldn't have made it through the first few days, because they are the worst. It's because that's when the most toxins are being released.

[Tipi Walter]

Stage 1 (Day 1 To Day 2)
On the first day of fasting, the blood sugar level drops below 70 mg/dl. To restore the blood to the normal glucose level, liver glycogen is converted to glucose and released into the blood. This reserve is enough for half a day. The body then reduces the basal metabolic rate (BMR). The rate of internal chemical activity in resting tissue is lowered to conserve energy. The heart slows and blood pressure is reduced. Glycogen is pulled from the muscle causing some weakness. The first wave of cleansing is usually the worst.

Headaches, dizziness, nausea, bad breath, glazed eyes and a heavily coated tongue are signs of the first stage of cleansing. Hunger can be the most intense in this period unless the enema is used which quickly assists the body into the fasting state by ending digestion in the colon.

Too bad you couldn't have made it through the first few days, because they are the worst. It's because that's when the most toxins are being released.

I find that people who never fast find it the hardest, while those who go one day a week without food and only water get used to it. One note: people on a caffeine addiction will find fasting difficult due to the headaches in the beginning---another good reason to shun caffeine in all forms.

[Transient Being]

Good point. That's how I started, just one day water fast. After doing that a few times, I tried two days. Then three days, Etc. If you just jump right in and say, "I'm gonna do a ten day Master Cleanse, it probably would be very difficult. About the caffeine, I drink coffee and black tea, and sodas every once in a while, but I guess I'm not addicted to them. I do get very mild headaches when I start a fast, and I do believe it is from caffeine withdrawal. Another good thing about fasting is it breaks addictions. I started smoking about 1-1/2 years ago, alot of BS was going on in my life and I turned to smoking. After about 10 days on this cleanse, I didn't even want one anymore!

[Mags]

ACTUALLY TRIED IT! NOT UNEDUCATED OPINIONS!

Do a thru-hike first on the Master Cleanse and see how it goes. :)

I'm not very smart, but I'd think hiking 15 miles a day (or more) consistently for many months is not a good idea on 1500 calories a day.

:)

We'll add this thread to the website Marta wants to start.... ;)

[Tipi Walter]

Oh no, I wouldn't do a thru hike. I'm thinking for 7 to 12 days, covering about 80 miles or so.


Do a thru-hike first on the Master Cleanse and see how it goes. :)

I'm not very smart, but I'd think hiking 15 miles a day (or more) consistently for many months is not a good idea on 1500 calories a day.

:)


Bird312 never said his altered fast is a permanent state or one to be done for an entire thruhike or to be done consistently for many months. It's a periodic housecleaning that fits somewhat into a short backpacking trip, or is a good prep for a backpacking trip. Fasting and backpacking are a tough combination, and a person will find out soon enough when he bonks on the hill climbs after a week or so without food. Although I applaud the benefits of fasting, I don't think fasting combined with strenuous exercise is a worthwhile endeavor---but then that's why Miss Nature created mountain creek valleys so we can fast in a basecamping situation and lounge. Being out in nature while fasting is an age-old human pursuit---see the hanblecheyapi or vision quest of the Lakota Sioux.

[hikerboy57]

yes, fasting can produce hallucinations(vision quest). The lakotas purification ritual was a sweat lodge. sweat is still the best purifier.

[Wise Old Owl]

Yes I think its completely insane - so don't get mad. You are taking little hints from larger well known weight loss programs. Several advocate 64 oz of water spread through out the day - Lemon juice is a natural diuretic, Maple syrup is just sugar to provide a little quick energy. But to do that for several days and no real nutrition or serious program with a nutritionist, - its a waste of time... then you want to hike on that?

Yes I was joking at first and if I came off rude - my sincere apologies. - But your first post opened the door "completely insane"

[Spokes]

When did I ever say toxins? Everybody else has been saying that. But if you want to know, yes I believe it removes toxins

Your liver and kidneys do that. If you think they're not up to the task or need "help" you probably shouldn't be hiking. Like I said before- Master Cleanse=Master Scam.

[Mags]

Bird312 never said his altered fast is a permanent state or one to be done for an entire thruhike or to be done consistently for many months. It's a periodic housecleaning that fits somewhat into a short backpacking trip, or is a good prep for a backpacking trip.

I stand corrected on that part. However, even a 12 day backpack for 80 miles or so would seem problematic (as you pointed out).

Rather than backpack, I'd take your advice and make base camp for a week.

[WingedMonkey]

Giardia lamblia. Mother Nature's gut cleanser.

:sun

[Transient Being]

yes, fasting can produce hallucinations(vision quest). The lakotas purification ritual was a sweat lodge. sweat is still the best purifier.

Yes it is a good purifier. While on my fast, I also take alot of hot baths and sweat. Feel great afterwards.


Yes I think its completely insane - so don't get mad. You are taking little hints from larger well known weight loss programs. Several advocate 64 oz of water spread through out the day - Lemon juice is a natural diuretic, Maple syrup is just sugar to provide a little quick energy. But to do that for several days and no real nutrition or serious program with a nutritionist, - its a waste of time... then you want to hike on that?

Yes I was joking at first and if I came off rude - my sincere apologies. - But your first post opened the door "completely insane"

More from the peanut gallery I see. I love how the people who have zero experience love to sound their little trumpets. So you think fasting is completely insane? Hmm, well.....basically all of the greatest spiritual leaders of the world fasted. Moses, David, Elijah and Jesus all fasted for 40 days. Many others fasted for shorter periods of time. So all of these people are insane too? ohhhh kayyyy..... I really don't see why people have to become so defensive? I promise, I will not try to make you stop eating. I promise I will not come into your house and throw away your food. I promise I will not hold you hostage and lock you in a room with only water or lemonade :) You can have all your food, so don't be scared. Go right now and check. There is still food in your refridgerator. I didn't come in the night and take your food.


Your liver and kidneys do that. If you think they're not up to the task or need "help" you probably shouldn't be hiking. Like I said before- Master Cleanse=Master Scam.

Look at response above, the same goes for you. If you don't believe in fasting, then that's your belief. I choose to believe in fasting. Yes, I'm a Christian. Follower of Jesus. I'm not perfect, but I try. As a bonus, I get to renew my body with the miracle working power of fasting. I'm sure you don't know anything about it. Resume inexperienced, uneducated banter.


Bird312 never said his altered fast is a permanent state or one to be done for an entire thruhike or to be done consistently for many months. It's a periodic housecleaning that fits somewhat into a short backpacking trip, or is a good prep for a backpacking trip. Fasting and backpacking are a tough combination, and a person will find out soon enough when he bonks on the hill climbs after a week or so without food. Although I applaud the benefits of fasting, I don't think fasting combined with strenuous exercise is a worthwhile endeavor---but then that's why Miss Nature created mountain creek valleys so we can fast in a basecamping situation and lounge. Being out in nature while fasting is an age-old human pursuit---see the hanblecheyapi or vision quest of the Lakota Sioux.

Thanks for the backup Tipi.

[JAK]

Also concur with Tipi's posts.

What happens on the first day of fasting is not neccessarily all that severe. It depends on how active you are, and how much glycogen and fat stores you have going into it, and your last meal before the fast. Also, how conditioned your body is to utilize fat stores, as opposed to wanting to use glycogen all the time even when less active.

Take a big guy, 200 pounds, with 2000 calories of glycogen reserves, and 50 pounds of body fat. Say he goes into fasting with a 500 calorie last meal, and his glycogen tank topped up. Over the next 24 hours he has the 500 calories from the last meal, plus about 50% of his glycogen tank, and up to 1% of his body fat, before he should get into any serious difficulty in his body figuring out how to keep the glycogen tank reasonably full and the blood sugar level up enough to keep the brain from worrying too much, and getting silly. So that would be 500 + 1000 + 1750 = 3250 kcal. You could even do some decent hiking on that. Now on the other extreme, if you are already a lean mean hiking machine, you might only be able to count on 500 kcal from your fat reserves, so you might only be able to burn 2000 kcal in that first 24 hours, unless you make that last meal bigger.

[JAK]

People can certainly condition themselves to dig deeper into their glycogen reserves, and also to dig into the fat reserves at faster that 1% per day. Just saying it does get harder if you have less body fat, but not impossible. Also, even if overweight, with enough fuel to walk around the world a couple of times without stopping, you have to be careful not to bottom out your blood sugar by doing things too quickly, or by having less glycogen stores, or by being to dependant on your glycogen metabolism vs fat metabolism. Everyone should ease into fasting, especially if doing it while hiking.

Beyond 24 hours you have to think about protien also. As your body beats your muscles down, it recycle some of the protiens from the microdamage, but if you aren't eating enough it will likely recycle the protiens as fuel, rather than as muscle tissue. Regardless, beyond 24 hours you have to maintain reasonable regular protien intake. The question is more whether it has to be a steady supply every day. Some evidence suggest it doesn't, even if you are lifting weights or hiking or running every day. Some evidence suggests that growth hormone is elevated with a 24 hour fast, maybe to help maintain muscle protiens while fasting. So there might be a way to coordinate a weekly or monthly 24 hour fast in with your hiking or exercise plans.

So which day should it be? Should it be on a rest day, or a regular hiking day, or an extra long hiking day, or run, or weight routine, or whatever, to make best use of the extra growth hormone, etc. Also, what sort of meal and activity should immediately preceed it, and follow it. Many variables.

[Gaiter]

I can't speak personally, I've never done a cleanse or fast like that, but my roommate recently went on a juice cleanse/fast, i believe her goal was 2 weeks, but she was also working an 80hr week (desk job and waitress) the week she started, she only made it a few days, before she became so weak and sick that she could hardly get out of bed.. i couldn't imagine doing any form of cleanse while hiking, maybe one before and after with major vitamin supplements, but not during a thru

[JAK]

I like to think of the primitive hunter-gatherer, like good old Otzi the iceman before they killed him for his unconventional backpacking gear. He likely would have had long days of hiking, with fairly regular intake of minimal rations, perhaps the odd day of severe restriction, even while still travelling. That would be made up for with a big feast now and then, mostly protien and fat, if from a kill. Perhaps lots of carbs if he stumbled onto a berry patch, but that wouldn't likely be 1000s of calories like from a big kill. So maybe a fast once a week, but also a big feast also, now and then, especially after a day with lots of hill climbing or heavy lifting.

What might really be missing from the hikers diet and exercise regime, is not so much the feasts and fasts, or the long steady days of exercise, and rest days. What might also be needed is a day of high intensity exercise now and then, especially for the upper body. Without opportunities for rock climbing, paddling, or cave bear wrestling, perhaps some strength training once a week. Throw that into the mix also. It would be nice if the extra work alody so got you further down the trail. Not a bad case for hiking pole, or poles. Daily pushups wouldn't hurt either. Just sayin', if we are going to consider fasting, and feasting, then maybe some strength training as well, to maintain the upper body.

[hikerboy57]

fasting may go back thousands of years, but then again the average life expectancy 200 years ago was 30.doesnt seem like the key to longevity for me.

[rgarling]

There are many benefits to fasting. Unfortunately, consuming 600 to 1200 calories per day via sugar IS NOT FASTING. Also, with regard to improving one's metabolic conditioning, the benefits of fasting start to be overcome by the disadvantages at about 4 days. There are a FEW good reasons to extend a therapeutic fast to the 7 to 10 day zone, but very few.

[JAK]

I second that, that a 600-1200 cal/day cleansing fast is not fasting.
Probably not that cleansing either.

Plain old water is most cleansing. Untreated old water, perhaps even more so. ;-)

[rhjanes]

I like to think of the primitive hunter-gatherer, like good old Otzi the iceman before they killed him for his unconventional backpacking gear. He likely would have had long days of hiking, with fairly regular intake of minimal rations, perhaps the odd day of severe restriction, even while still travelling. That would be made up for with a big feast now and then, mostly protien and fat, if from a kill. Perhaps lots of carbs if he stumbled onto a berry patch, but that wouldn't likely be 1000s of calories like from a big kill. So maybe a fast once a week, but also a big feast also, now and then, especially after a day with lots of hill climbing or heavy lifting.

What might really be missing from the hikers diet and exercise regime, is not so much the feasts and fasts, or the long steady days of exercise, and rest days. What might also be needed is a day of high intensity exercise now and then, especially for the upper body. Without opportunities for rock climbing, paddling, or cave bear wrestling, perhaps some strength training once a week. Throw that into the mix also. It would be nice if the extra work alody so got you further down the trail. Not a bad case for hiking pole, or poles. Daily pushups wouldn't hurt either. Just sayin', if we are going to consider fasting, and feasting, then maybe some strength training as well, to maintain the upper body.Did you seee the latest from Nat-Geo? Seems Otiz had Lyme! He also had a high-fat last meal before he was murdered. So they think he was ambushed by his assaliant, probably for being a Hammock Hanger.

[Feral Bill]

I like to think of the primitive hunter-gatherer, like good old Otzi the iceman before they killed him for his unconventional backpacking gear. He likely would have had long days of hiking, with fairly regular intake of minimal rations, perhaps the odd day of severe restriction, even while still travelling. That would be made up for with a big feast now and then, mostly protien and fat, if from a kill. Perhaps lots of carbs if he stumbled onto a berry patch, but that wouldn't likely be 1000s of calories like from a big kill. So maybe a fast once a week, but also a big feast also, now and then, especially after a day with lots of hill climbing or heavy lifting.

What might really be missing from the hikers diet and exercise regime, is not so much the feasts and fasts, or the long steady days of exercise, and rest days. What might also be needed is a day of high intensity exercise now and then, especially for the upper body. Without opportunities for rock climbing, paddling, or cave bear wrestling, perhaps some strength training once a week. Throw that into the mix also. It would be nice if the extra work alody so got you further down the trail. Not a bad case for hiking pole, or poles. Daily pushups wouldn't hurt either. Just sayin', if we are going to consider fasting, and feasting, then maybe some strength training as well, to maintain the upper body. Yes, but look what happened to poor Otzi!

[hikerboy57]

typically for most hunter gatherer groups, it WAS literally feast or famine.their diets were far from complete,hunts were not always successful, vitamin deficiencies , premature tooth loss, and a relatively short life expectancy can be gained by following their ancient "wisdom".

[Spokes]

Look at response above, the same goes for you. If you don't believe in fasting, then that's your belief. I choose to believe in fasting. Yes, I'm a Christian. Follower of Jesus. I'm not perfect, but I try. As a bonus, I get to renew my body with the miracle working power of fasting. I'm sure you don't know anything about it. Resume inexperienced, uneducated banter.


I can't find anywhere in the Bible where it says Jesus (or anyone else in that period) used fresh lemon juice, rich maple syrup, and cayenne pepper in pure water during a fast or "cleanse".


Yes it is a good purifier. While on my fast, I also take alot of hot baths and sweat. Feel great afterwards.

I feel great after doing an 20 mile long run. In fact I feel just as good after mowing the yard and drinking an ice cold beer in the summer time.

So subjective.


Hmmmm.........

[Pedaling Fool]

There really are two separate issues here 1. fasting 2. cleansing using this "special" diet of lemon juice, maple syrup, and cayenne pepper. I'm very open to the virtues of fasting, but still call BS on the "special" clensing diet.

[Spokes]

There really are two separate issues here 1. fasting 2. cleansing using this "special" diet of lemon juice, maple syrup, and cayenne pepper. I'm very open to the virtues of fasting, but still call BS on the "special" clensing diet.

Some thru hikers consider 5 days on the trail their "fasting period" right before hitting the AYCE in the next trail town.

[scope]

I tried the master cleanse once. The concoction triggered my gag reflex and the feeling it gave me later on -- I felt like something was terribly wrong with my kidneys. I'd never felt anything like it in my life...

Food for thought... if it worked so well, as it apparently has for the OP, then everybody would be doing it, right? I'm glad Stars offered this insight for balance.


...milk just spurt from my nose....

ya know, you should use a Neti Pot for that!


When did I ever say toxins? Everybody else has been saying that. But if you want to know, yes I believe it removes toxins too....

OK, you're technically right, but what does "getting the crap out" mean exactly. I agree that some of us used the word toxins I guess because we've heard it used before regarding this sort of thing, but I don't know what else you would be talking about. And if "cleanse" equates to "laxative" then that is indeed bad, bad.


Why is it that toxin flushes never focus on the kidneys or liver, and fasts always involve foods that provide very little of the daily essential nutrients used for energy production, digestion, and living/breathing?

What ever happened to the thousand year old diet of eating whatever the hell you want, as long as you get the needed nutrients, and using the excess as energy for working out / hiking? Seems odd to me that so many people will fast and have no energy, saying that they feel like they have more energy than they did when they ate, yet forcing your body into one of the most grueling and health-restoring hike requires 3,000-4,000 calories a day.

I'll stop knocking on fasting because I don't know enough about it, just that I've heard more bad than good (still need to do more proper research), but there is one thing I feel I should mention to anyone fasting to lose weight (not that the original poster is): If you're trying to lose weight, the LAST thing you ever want to do is cut fat out of your diet. When you go long enough without fat, you get the benefits of a slowed down metabolism and slim down, but be prepared never to have fat again, or your body will hold onto any bit of fat you put in afterwards (our bodies are programmed to store fat after not having it for periods of time for 'hibernation', and fear that it won't get fat again for a while).

The secret to a healthy body weight is balance, not abstinence.

This is a very contemporary version of eating right and its relation to maintaining weight. First of all, fasting is about achieving your own personal balance. Some cultures do it as a matter of routine. You can argue that it is not needed with the type of control that we should have these days over our diet and activity levels, but that's a very optimistic view regarding how much control we actually do have and how much we actually exert. Obviously, some do it better than others. Fasting may work well for some and shouldn't be criticized based on an arrogant notion that the more contemporary way is THE way to do it.

Besides, what you mention about not cutting fat is more overall diet related and has nothing to do with fasting. And fasting doesn't equate to those who might starve themselves for a day or two.

Now, I've not fasted, but considered it seriously. The cleanse thing interests me partially because I believe it does focus on the liver and kidneys, not just the colon. However, I also think its pretty absurd to think about hiking while doing this. After all, this cleanse thing is not supposed to be a diet, just a temporary adjustment period, or time-out if you will, for your body.

[Pedaling Fool]

Some thru hikers consider 5 days on the trail their "fasting period" right before hitting the AYCE in the next trail town.I concur:) I never restrict my eating, other than my normal rationing while on the trial. It is very much like fasting.

[Doc Mike]

There really are two separate issues here 1. fasting 2. cleansing using this "special" diet of lemon juice, maple syrup, and cayenne pepper. I'm very open to the virtues of fasting, but still call BS on the "special" clensing diet.

This is me hitting the "like" button
+1
yeah what he said

[colonel r]

I did not take the time to read all these posts except for the first page or so; having said that, a cleansing is simply a colonoscopy prep. Toxins are dealt with thru the kidneys and other organs and dumped out thru urine and poop.

Not to burst your bubble but if that is all you consume, you are starving your body of essential nutrients and it will be a detriment to your body in the long run.
R

[weary]

There really are two separate issues here 1. fasting 2. cleansing using this "special" diet of lemon juice, maple syrup, and cayenne pepper. I'm very open to the virtues of fasting, but still call BS on the "special" clensing diet.
I AGREE.

Like most internet threads, there is much wisdom and a lot of nonsense being expressed. Fasting for a day or two won't hurt people who are generally healthy, provided they maintain an adequate fluid intake. Plus there's a bevy of medical evidence that suggests regular fasting has health benefits.

However, fasting entirely for long periods of time can be harmful. Your body needs a variety of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients from food to stay healthy. Not getting enough of these nutrients during fasting diets can lead to symptoms such as fatigue, dizziness, constipation, dehydration, gallstones, and cold intolerance. It is possible to die if you fast too long.

Even short-term fasting is rarely seriously recommended for people with diabetes, because it can lead to dangerous dips and spikes in blood sugar. Women who are pregnant or breastfeeding, or anyone with a chronic disease, should not fast, judging from all the evidence I've seen.

There is no doubt that the early deaths of Americans, compared with most of the developed world, stems not from fasting, but from overeating.

BTW, I see no evidence that doctors prescribe deadly medicines just to increase their fees as is being argued. Rather most doctors are overworked, and rely on drug companies for much of their continuing information. That's why I'm pleased that the medical group I go to, some months ago voted to ban drug samples and visits from drug salesfolk from their offices.

[JAK]

Did you seee the latest from Nat-Geo? Seems Otiz had Lyme! He also had a high-fat last meal before he was murdered. So they think he was ambushed by his assaliant, probably for being a Hammock Hanger.I heard that he actually impalled himself with his own hiking poles. :-)

[Wise Old Owl]

Moses, David, Elijah and Jesus all fasted for 40 days. Many others fasted for shorter periods of time

They were memorable - you are not. I was sincere in my apology.

[JAK]

I concur:) I never restrict my eating, other than my normal rationing while on the trial. It is very much like fasting.Well said. Very true, and works well at either end of the spectrum of carrying excess body fat. Just hike with whatever caloric defecit is appropriate, and eat foods that serve your dietary and digestive tract needs.

[JAK]

Don't forget Conan.

[JAK]

So here is a question. If wanting to hike on a caloric deficit, but not a total fast, and wanting to clean out the bowels some as well, what would be a good diet? Oatmeal with dried fruit? Lentil and Herb soup? What sort of tea? Bark tea?

[restless]

One thing I haven't Really see anyone address is this-if I read the OP correctly, this person is asking about backpacking on this diet. 1200 calories is not enough to replace what will be used up and I don't beleive it provides the necessary carbs and proteins needed. I'm not sure that this is a wise diet to utilize during a backpacking trip.

[Transient Being]

Ok everybody. Today is day 18. I've been doing some more research on the subject, and although I feel like this has been a good cleanse, I'm starting to consider other options. Some of the information I've been reading says that a juice feast would be better, which I'm not against. It would be juicing fresh fruits and vegetables and that would be your only sustenance for x number of days. This sounds logical and perhaps healthier. I've also read some about water only fasting. I think the reason I get so weak after only 3 days of water fasting is because my system is so overloaded with "crap" and the detoxification is so intense with water only that I have to stop after 3 days or so. I've heard with practice, one can begin to lengthen water fast. I do know that from personal experience, the more you fast, the better you get at it. I'm sure I'll be experimenting with that in the future.

While I still believe that the Master Cleanse is a viable option for anybody who wants to detoxify and give your body a rest, there may be better options out there. I still believe it is just a modified fast. The definition of fasting Fasting is primarily the act of willingly abstaining (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstention) from some or all food (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food), drink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drink), or both, for a period of time. Other fasts may be only partially restrictive, limiting particular foods or substances (wikipedia) So, in my opinion, yes, the master cleanse is still a fast. I'm sure that for me, this has been a good experience. I may try to do multiple water fast in the future to try to break the three day threshold, and I may try the juice feast and see how that goes. I would still recommend that anybody that is interested should try the master cleanse just once to see what it is all about, and do it for at least 10 days, like the book recommends. I feel like this is better than not fasting at all. I think I'm gonna stop around 21 days, or I may go into a water fast and see how much longer I can go.

Thanks for all the replies, both for and against. I enjoy good debate. I think I'm gonna wait till after my fast to head to the mountains, or I may go and set up a base camp like Tipi suggested. Yesterday I went and bought a bunch of trail food at Target. I didn't realize they had so much trail friendly food in there! I was getting really hungry, then at the checkout the aroma of popcorn was almost too much! I'm basically addicted to popcorn.

[Pedaling Fool]

I wanna give my body a rest also, especially my heart. The average heart beats ~100,000 beats per day/~35,000,000 per year http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/heart/heartfacts.html

I was thinking since I now have a HR well below average that I'm doing pretty good, but then I thought the reason my HR is so low is because I spend so much time with it above average, while I'm cycling/running/hiking....

I guess my poor heart will just have to wait til I die before it gets some rest. Resting time is for the dead:D

[Tipi Walter]

Ok everybody. Today is day 18. I've been doing some more research on the subject, and although I feel like this has been a good cleanse, I'm starting to consider other options. Some of the information I've been reading says that a juice feast would be better, which I'm not against. It would be juicing fresh fruits and vegetables and that would be your only sustenance for x number of days. This sounds logical and perhaps healthier. I've also read some about water only fasting. I think the reason I get so weak after only 3 days of water fasting is because my system is so overloaded with "crap" and the detoxification is so intense with water only that I have to stop after 3 days or so. I've heard with practice, one can begin to lengthen water fast. I do know that from personal experience, the more you fast, the better you get at it. I'm sure I'll be experimenting with that in the future.

While I still believe that the Master Cleanse is a viable option for anybody who wants to detoxify and give your body a rest, there may be better options out there. I still believe it is just a modified fast. The definition of fasting Fasting is primarily the act of willingly abstaining (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstention) from some or all food (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food), drink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drink), or both, for a period of time. Other fasts may be only partially restrictive, limiting particular foods or substances (wikipedia) So, in my opinion, yes, the master cleanse is still a fast. I'm sure that for me, this has been a good experience. I may try to do multiple water fast in the future to try to break the three day threshold, and I may try the juice feast and see how that goes. I would still recommend that anybody that is interested should try the master cleanse just once to see what it is all about, and do it for at least 10 days, like the book recommends. I feel like this is better than not fasting at all. I think I'm gonna stop around 21 days, or I may go into a water fast and see how much longer I can go.

Thanks for all the replies, both for and against. I enjoy good debate. I think I'm gonna wait till after my fast to head to the mountains, or I may go and set up a base camp like Tipi suggested. Yesterday I went and bought a bunch of trail food at Target. I didn't realize they had so much trail friendly food in there! I was getting really hungry, then at the checkout the aroma of popcorn was almost too much! I'm basically addicted to popcorn.

True story:
In my youth, around 26 years of age, I was practicing yoga meditation and started reading some books on fasting and got a hold of Arnold Ehret's book called The Mucusless Diet Healing System. I took it to heart and gradually limited my diet to just fruit, the "ideal diet" according to Ehret. I didn't know when to stop and in the usual fanaticism of a twenty-something young man, I went way overboard and near the end spent forty days on just grapes. DON'T DO IT!

I entered a world no one wants to go to, a world of frailty, cold chills and a drastically shrinking body. Starvation. In my peanut sized brain I thought I could "storm the gates of heaven" by achieving some sort of bodily purification. All I did was get weird and ended up at 5'11" with a 93 lb body and had to spend 10 days in a hospital on a glucose (or something) IV which gave me a chance to slowly start eating regular food and thereby slowly start gaining weight. We all do stupid things in our 20's---mine was the Yogic Fast To Achieve Nirvana.

The basic message is---don't go overboard and use moderation in all things. I believe the body without food for a good length of time, or on a grape diet for 30 or 40 days, will devolve down into a hard cycle of wacked out digestion and probably harm to both the head and the body.

This is not to say periodic fasting is harmful or dangerous, and I have since fasted on a regular basis and even pulled that 9 day fast on carrot juice. But we should never get fanatical about it and we should always know when to stop and return to regular food.

[rgarling]

... I've also read some about water only fasting. I think the reason I get so weak after only 3 days of water fasting is because my system is so overloaded with "crap" and the detoxification is so intense with water only that I have to stop after 3 days or so. I've heard with practice, one can begin to lengthen water fast. I do know that from personal experience, the more you fast, the better you get at it. I'm sure I'll be experimenting with that in the future.
...

If you want to explore fasting, your endocrine system needs to be in good condition. In your case, you over-consume simple carbohydrates. If you continually infuse your system with simple carbs your leptin, insulin, and blood glucose levels are always too high, and the pathways that kick in with low blood glucose don't get sufficient 'exercise'. It could take many months of proper diet to correct this issue. As far as your metabolism is concerned, juice fasting is just like your sugar fasting (but juicing sounds healthier doesn't it?).

[4eyedbuzzard]

I would recommend that anyone thinking of fasting for anytrhing more than a day or two, or thinking of going on any diet under 1800 calories a day especially if it doesn't provide typically recommended nutrients, consult their doctor first. They might just know a little more about it than you, I, wikipedia, uncredentialed internet sources, and most of the forum members here. Just sayin'. Couldn't hurt.

[Transient Being]

Actually, my resting heart rate has dropped 10-15 bpm since I've started this. Might have to do with the fact that I've recently quit smoking too, which will also reduce resting heart rate. Yesterday I went and hammered out some laps on a motocross track, after 17 days on the master cleanse. I've got a CRF 450, bikes a total beast. Ask anybody who has ever been a motocross racer. It's the second most endurance demanding sport, second only to soccer. I was actually going faster than I normally go, and could go just as long without getting tired. My mind is sharper, so I was able to rail the ruts faster and smoother. Hitting 110' double felt awesome. Me loosing about 13 pounds probably helped me go faster too. I was gettin' down. So believe what you want, but I will be fasting again and agian. I can even type faster than normal. I also enjoy the peace and tranquility that comes with it, everything just seems to flow. Continue negative criticism.

[Transient Being]

I would recommend that anyone thinking of fasting for anytrhing more than a day or two, or thinking of going on any diet under 1800 calories a day especially if it doesn't provide typically recommended nutrients, consult their doctor first. They might just know a little more about it than you, I, wikipedia, uncredentialed internet sources, and most of the forum members here. Just sayin'. Couldn't hurt.

I've been hearin' you. Probably the most fair and balanced of all the commentors, including myself. I still think for me fasting is a very worthwhile endeavor. Like I said earlier though, juice feasting and water fasting may very well be better than the master cleanse. And I'm sure fasting or juicing or master cleansing is not for everybody. The main reason I started this thread was to find out if anybody had done it and backpacked, not to get into a debate on whether or not it is good for you.

[Transient Being]

my response # 88 was to John Gault.

[rgarling]

So here is a question. If wanting to hike on a caloric deficit, but not a total fast, and wanting to clean out the bowels some as well, what would be a good diet? Oatmeal with dried fruit? Lentil and Herb soup? What sort of tea? Bark tea?

The idea here would be to get your body into burning primarily stored fat and modulate your hiking speed / effort to maintain a heart rate around 60% of maximum. Eat only fat / protein until your post hike meal, which you should eat almost immediately after you stop hiking. At that time, you can eat some carbs with your protein/fat , which will help replenish muscle glycogen stores.

I don't see the need for bowel cleaning, but don't know much about that.

[Transient Being]

True story:
In my youth, around 26 years of age, I was practicing yoga meditation and started reading some books on fasting and got a hold of Arnold Ehret's book called The Mucusless Diet Healing System. I took it to heart and gradually limited my diet to just fruit, the "ideal diet" according to Ehret. I didn't know when to stop and in the usual fanaticism of a twenty-something young man, I went way overboard and near the end spent forty days on just grapes. DON'T DO IT!

I entered a world no one wants to go to, a world of frailty, cold chills and a drastically shrinking body. Starvation. In my peanut sized brain I thought I could "storm the gates of heaven" by achieving some sort of bodily purification. All I did was get weird and ended up at 5'11" with a 93 lb body and had to spend 10 days in a hospital on a glucose (or something) IV which gave me a chance to slowly start eating regular food and thereby slowly start gaining weight. We all do stupid things in our 20's---mine was the Yogic Fast To Achieve Nirvana.

The basic message is---don't go overboard and use moderation in all things. I believe the body without food for a good length of time, or on a grape diet for 30 or 40 days, will devolve down into a hard cycle of wacked out digestion and probably harm to both the head and the body.

This is not to say periodic fasting is harmful or dangerous, and I have since fasted on a regular basis and even pulled that 9 day fast on carrot juice. But we should never get fanatical about it and we should always know when to stop and return to regular food.

Good story. Funny because I started fasting at age 25. Thanks for the warning. I have never got quite so fanatical about it, but I could see how somebody could. Right now I feel a little underweight, probably actually ideal weight, but underweight for an American haha. 6' 160. I have long arms and legs too, so I'm lookin a little skinny when I look in the mirror. But I feel more flexible and.....lighter, (imagine that). I really don't want to loose much more weight though. I kinda like being around 175 which I'm sure I'll be back to before I know it.

[Transient Being]

Good story. Funny because I started fasting at age 25. Thanks for the warning. I have never got quite so fanatical about it, but I could see how somebody could. Right now I feel a little underweight, probably actually ideal weight, but underweight for an American haha. 6' 160. I have long arms and legs too, so I'm lookin a little skinny when I look in the mirror. But I feel more flexible and.....lighter, (imagine that). I really don't want to loose much more weight though. I kinda like being around 175 which I'm sure I'll be back to before I know it.

Oh, yeah, one more thing Tipi, I also meditate. We got some things in common. I don't know about yoga meditation, I bought this cd by Wayne Dyer, he calls it Japa meditation. It's basically emptying your mind of all thoughts and going "ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" every now and then. Seems to really relieve stress and slow down my sometimes overactive mind.

[Doc Mike]

Sounds like some one is using the eye dee ten tee method. ID10T. It would be interesting to compare credentials on those giving advice. My suspicion is more than one has a BS in BS and not a bit of medical training.

[Tipi Walter]

Sounds like some one is using the eye dee ten tee method. ID10T. It would be interesting to compare credentials on those giving advice. My suspicion is more than one has a BS in BS and not a bit of medical training.

I don't believe the AMA or most if any medical doctors or those with medical training condone, advise or even suggest fasting except for the several hours preceding surgery or test procedures. In other words, in my opinion a person with medical training doesn't need to be around to add credence or give their almighty imprimatur to whether a person should fast or not. If it's your criteria that only those with medical training or doctors should "supervise" or conduct a fast---then by this declaration you've protested the act itself and have a negative view on it.

So, the question becomes---have you ever fasted and for how long?

[4eyedbuzzard]

Sounds like some one is using the eye dee ten tee method. ID10T. It would be interesting to compare credentials on those giving advice. My suspicion is more than one has a BS in BS and not a bit of medical training.
Rule of thumb: Never argue with an ID10T - they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

[Transient Being]

Sounds like some one is using the eye dee ten tee method. ID10T. It would be interesting to compare credentials on those giving advice. My suspicion is more than one has a BS in BS and not a bit of medical training.

Here's some psychology for you Doc. Hahahahaha!!!:cool:

1. Understand what motivates people to be critical
Hurting people hurt people. Most critics were criticized themselves as children and did not develop the sense of security and healthy identity that can come from positive nurturing.


Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/72386

[Transient Being]

I don't believe the AMA or most if any medical doctors or those with medical training condone, advise or even suggest fasting except for the several hours preceding surgery or test procedures. In other words, in my opinion a person with medical training doesn't need to be around to add credence or give their almighty imprimatur to whether a person should fast or not. If it's your criteria that only those with medical training or doctors should "supervise" or conduct a fast---then by this declaration you've protested the act itself and have a negative view on it.

So, the question becomes---have you ever fasted and for how long?

Love this. My thoughts, only better.

[Transient Being]

I guess the good Doctor doesn't believe in meditation either. I'll have to start a new thread.

[Wise Old Owl]

Bird - the good doc and many others here that clearly smarter than myself or you - and because you are new here. They know how they feel and are offering good opinions... You don't agree with me and after paying for some 10 different weightloss programs for the wife because she wanted too, I don't agree with this thread. I am not going out of my way to hurt your feelings. I think if it works for you that's fine... What you are posting will not work for others.

Your posts here appears to be targeted towards a self affirmation of your ideas.. and that is not what WB is about. This is an exchange.

But that's MY opinion.... What are you really trying to accomplish here?

[Transient Being]

I'm not the one calling people idiots, which I'm sure goes against the rules of this forum. How do you know that they are clearly smarter than me or you? Have I been that illogical? Like I said, all great spiritual leaders fast(ed) and most meditated. So I'm trying to be like the great spiritual leaders of past and present. And that makes me an idiot? Sorry, but it seems to me that trying to follow the footsteps of people like Moses, Jesus, and other spiritual leaders from any religion, not just Christianity, would be one of the wisest decisions a man or woman could make. But sophisticated Dr's and modern age Einsteins know better. If it's not in a medical journal or on Fox news it can't be good. Just because something is not taught in med. school it isn't good? Please! You know that Dr's used to recommend people to smoke cigarettes (back in the 50's I believe) Probably the worst habit in the world for health. I think alot of people go hiking looking for answers to life and to seek God. Not all, but I'm sure alot. It's a great place to go to try to sort your life out and look for direction in life, at least for people like me that don't have all the answers. I believe that fasting, meditating, and hiking through the woods has alot more in common than most people realize. Don't agree with me, fine. Like I said in my original post, I can understand if you don't agree with me. I'm just looking for experienced answers to the question, "Has anybody master cleansed and backpacked?" If you don't agree with fasting, that's your choice, but to consider it foolish and dangerous is in my opinion, ridiculous. If you want to see something that is foolish and dangerous, go look at all the people that die prematurely from obesity related causes. So if you want to knock somebody for something, next time you see a fat person at McDonalds, go harass them. Much more dangerous than what I'm doing.

[weary]

Well, I have no medical training, but I've lived a long time, read a lot about health matters, and experienced personal health problems and health problems by close relatives. Many medical doctors find value in occasional fasts, and see no harm and possible good from meditating.

I've also studied enough to be suspicious of fad diets. BTW I'm 82, have diabetes (under control), an artificial heart valve, and a pacemaker.

But I'm also 6' 2", weigh 165 pounds, work on our land trust trails several times a week, and periodically climb mountains. One thing I know is that one needs regular exercise, and a nutritious diet with meat and a variety of vegetables, a little alcohol daily, and plenty of fiber.

I even like maple syrup. I add it to the liquid on mornings I cook oatmeal. But nine days on lemonade, and maple syrup, strikes me as both silly and dangerous.

[Big Dawg]

What are you really trying to accomplish here?

I think the answer to your question is on page 1


Has anybody done this (fasting, Master Cleanse) and backpacked?

OK,, I'll finally chime in on this thread. I've been following it since it started. I was talking to a friend of mine who is also a well respected doctor. He mentioned that he and his wife do the Master Cleanse twice a year. I'd never heard of it before, and had only vaguely heard of fasting. He mentioned that fasting was controversial, especially in the medical community, but that he was a believer in the benefits, and had done it many times. He suggested I give it a try. Later in the evening, I was surfing WB and came across this thread. Since then I've done a ton of research online. It seems from the many reviews about fasting in general, there is an overall positive view about the benefits received. The ones who seem to cut it down are the ones who haven't done it. Ultimately I've decided to give it a try, and I'll report back w/ my personal results/feelings once completed.

[Big Dawg]

Weary,,, there're many types/forms of fasting, which as you mentioned "Many medical doctors find value in occasional fasts". To call it silly and dangerous seems a bit over the top. What seems silly and dangerous to me is the typical american fare... causing an obesity epidemic.

[beakerman]

I think the reason I get so weak after only 3 days of water fasting is because my system is so overloaded with "crap" and the detoxification is so intense with water only that I have to stop after 3 days or so..

The real reason you feel so weak after 3 days of water fasting is you are bringing in no calories at all. Your body needs to keep your blood glucose levels up and if you don't take them in via food then the liver releases glucose after that the body begins converting fat to glucose. This is 100% puure metabolic science fact. This is why the Atkins diet "works" to loose weight...however it has the added benefit of adding protein to your diet to keep you from breaking down your muscles as well. I am not advocating the Atkins diet...using it as an example...there are metobolic effect simalarities between these two approaches. So when you deprive your body of all calories it pulls on itself to keep the brain and other organs alive and kicking.

As far as toxins go...all you are doing at best is cleaning the crap...i mean that litterally...out of your colon and small intestine. You can get the same effect from a high colonic or a good strong industrial laxative...you'll be done in a day and it wont leave you feeling as weak.

I certainly would not recommend doing any hike on reduced calorie intake. you simply burn too many calories while hiking.

[Pedaling Fool]

As far as toxins go...all you are doing at best is cleaning the crap...i mean that litterally...out of your colon and small intestine. You can get the same effect from a high colonic or a good strong industrial laxative...you'll be done in a day and it wont leave you feeling as weak.That reminds me....You want to experience a good cleansing, just stop eating all foods except (you don't have to stop, but since you like fasting) a good veggie that's high in fiber, say broccoli or brussel sprouts or corn or green beans or even apples (I know a fruit, but very good at cleansing). I guarantee much more effective than the Master Cleanser ingredients.

[fungi601]

Keep on thinkin' and I'll keep on knowin'. You need to do some research on fasting pops.

I agree with you 100% weather you just do a plain fast or the master cleanse.. it works! If you haven't tried it don't know it.

[fungi601]

I really can't see how lemon juice, maple syrup, and cayenne pepper will do any better, or even as good as my diet.

I have never understood the Maple syrup part either and I have done the cleanse. I do know though that lemon juice and cayenne pepper by themselves are both great detoxifies for the blood. Not directed at you, but people that say stuff like this is full of crap really ought to think about where most medicines started out... from plants and or herbs. When you eat a good natural diet, and yes I include meats in that, your fine. The trouble all starts when you start adding in stuff on ingredient labels that you cant even pronounce. I don't think God intended us to eat any of that stuff and thus..... the toxins. Not to mention the other stuff in the air we breathe.

[fungi601]

Go ahead and give me some links to negative reviews. For every one, I can give you ten positive ones. For all of you naysayers, how many of you have actually tried to fast or do the master cleanse? Fasting has been a proven health remedy for thousands of years.

Just take a look at the animals. whenever an animal is ill, they will stop eating. The fast to allow their bodies to heal and repair themselves.

[WingedMonkey]

I agree with you 100% weather you just do a plain fast or the master cleanse.. it works! If you haven't tried it don't know it.

I see in another post that you cook with and carry bacon grease when backpacking. I can see where you would need a good cleansing.

[Pedaling Fool]

I have never understood the Maple syrup part either and I have done the cleanse.Probably just an energy source.







I do know though that lemon juice and cayenne pepper by themselves are both great detoxifies for the blood.The term “detoxifier” is always used in infomercials when selling the various cleanser products as if we’re all toxic waste receptacles; this falls under the axiom, when something is repeated enough it becomes fact, but of course it doesn’t make it fact. The body can become a toxic waste site given a poor diet, especially if it’s lacking in fiber. Because the digestive system is much like a compost pile, but not the normal aerobic, rather it’s anaerobic, hence the smelly methane. So if non-digestible stuff is left in this system too long certain types of microorganisms start to flourish and they all produce toxins, i.e. their own waste. However, to say that one must consume lemon juice and cayenne pepper is just not proven. You say you feel better after using it, that may be true, but there’s simply no scientific evidence to support this claim that it is the ultimate cleansing agent, but put that aside and just look at all the negative testimonials associated with this method. If it works for you, great, but I know that my diet which include ample quantities of fiber keeps my system healthy and regular.

Ask yourself this, if we're all (most of which don't use this diet/method/fad) a bunch of toxic waste dumps, then why are we living longer and healthier? Must be doing something right since the population just went over 7 billion.







Not directed at you, but people that say stuff like this is full of crap really ought to think about where most medicines started out... from plants and or herbs. Don’t worry about my feelings; I have none, after all I'm the one that slam doors on old folks:eek::D. BTW, even today many medicines are extracted from plants/herbs/fungi…nothing new there.


When you eat a good natural diet, and yes I include meats in that, your fine. The trouble all starts when you start adding in stuff on ingredient labels that you cant even pronounce.
What is a “natural diet”? Much of what makes up these so-called natural diets must be flown to us from all over the world. But before globalization, i.e. well before the time of Columbus, people had to eat much different diets than other people in distant areas, yet some diets/fads, like this one claims lemon juice and cayenne pepper as essential natural diet/detoxifier for humans, but how much of the population were these foods available to before trading, not to mention today’s version of globalization.

And that is why vegitarians, especially vegans, would have to eat meat and other animal products in many parts of the world without the support of globalization. Look at what we farm in the world, not just the U.S. much of it is not native to that land and on top of that it looks nothing like the natural form of that particular crop. Most people would never be able to identify a naturally occuring tomato, and that's typical of many of the foods we grow, including lemons and peppers.

Just because you don’t know how to pronounce the ingredients on the nutritional label doesn’t mean it’s bad for you. Can you pronounce the chemical make-up of lemon juice and cayenne pepper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin. Everything is a chemical, life is chemistry.





Just take a look at the animals. whenever an animal is ill, they will stop eating. The fast to allow their bodies to heal and repair themselves.It’s not just animals that lose their appetite when sick; we do also and sometimes it actually hurts more than helps and that’s why force-feeding and IV’s are an important treatment method in some cases of sick animals, including humans. Just because something happens naturally, such as loss of appetite, does not mean it’s good for the organism.

[Transient Being]

Just because you don’t know how to pronounce the ingredients on the nutritional label doesn’t mean it’s bad for you. Can you pronounce the chemical make-up of lemon juice and cayenne pepper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin. Everything is a chemical, life is chemistry.




Dude, are you serious? In that case just eat some food sprayed with DDT and see how you feel! It's all chemicals, so you should be OK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT)Here's some info on those harmless chemical preservatives.


The oxidative characteristics and/or metabolites of BHA and BHT may contribute to carcinogenicity or tumorigenicity; however the same reactions may combat oxidative stress. There is evidence that certain persons may have difficulty metabolizing BHA and BHT, resulting in health and behavior changes.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/foodcookingchemistry/a/bha-bht-preservatives.htm

[fungi601]

I see in another post that you cook with and carry bacon grease when backpacking. I can see where you would need a good cleansing.

Your darn right I use bacon grease. I also drink raw milk and I think butter is good for you. The toxins that harm your body aren't coming form any of these things. I also never eat processed food of any sort and I haven't had a sick day in almost 20 years now. Do I drink bacon grease, of course not. Do i eat sticks of butter, of course not. Ive learned to listen to my body and let it tell me what i need. It also tells me when I need to give it a rest and refrain from eating anything at all. Hike your own hike and Ill do the same.

[Odd Man Out]

Could I point out that there are a whole bunch of somewhat unrelated topics going on in this thread that are getting unfortunately intertwined. There is the spiritual benefit of fasting topic. There is the health benefits of the cleanse topic. There is the all natural diet topic. And every now and then, there is something about diets when hiking.

In other words, if someone feels there isn't much scientific evidence that drinking lemon juice, cayenne, and maple syrup can cleanse you, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the spiritual benefits someone might derive from doing so.

An BTW, yes, I can pronounce (E)-N-(4-Hydroxy-3-methoxybenzyl)-8-methylnon-6-enamide. Love it.

Will have some with my 1,3,7-trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6(3H,7H)-dione 3,7-dihydro-1,3,7-trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione at diner tonight.

But hopefully no (4R,4aR,5R,6S,7S,8S,8aR,10S,12S)-2-azaniumylidene-4,6,8,12-tetrahydroxy-6-(hydroximethyl)-2,3,4,4a,5,6,7,8-octahydro-1H-8a,10-methano-5,7-(epoxymethanooxy)quinazolin-10-olate.

All are completely natural, but one is deadly.

[weary]

Your darn right I use bacon grease. I also drink raw milk and I think butter is good for you. The toxins that harm your body aren't coming form any of these things. I also never eat processed food of any sort and I haven't had a sick day in almost 20 years now. Do I drink bacon grease, of course not. Do i eat sticks of butter, of course not. Ive learned to listen to my body and let it tell me what i need. It also tells me when I need to give it a rest and refrain from eating anything at all. Hike your own hike and Ill do the same.
What do you use bacon grease for if you don't eat "processed foods?" Cooking is a process. Butter is processed milk fat. Pasturized milk is raw milk heated to around 160 degrees. It's not cooked milk. Just heated to kill the harmful bugs commonly found in stuff squeezed from the teats of cows

[Juice]

The longest I've cleansed has been 9 days. Although I kept in good spirits, day hikes were difficult even with minimal weight. I can only imagine the physical strain would negate some of the benefits of the fast. I'd be interested to hear the results though. Good luck.

[Wise Old Owl]

Dude, are you serious? In that case just eat some food sprayed with DDT and see how you feel! It's all chemicals, so you should be OK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT)Here's some info on those harmless chemical preservatives.


The oxidative characteristics and/or metabolites of BHA and BHT may contribute to carcinogenicity or tumorigenicity; however the same reactions may combat oxidative stress. There is evidence that certain persons may have difficulty metabolizing BHA and BHT, resulting in health and behavior changes.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/foodcookingchemistry/a/bha-bht-preservatives.htm



Bird stick to what you know - don't quote stuff you know nothing about. Back in the fifties (before my time) I have seen 8 mm movies of dads spraying DDT around children who were eating lunch with no ill effects. Doesn't make it right or wrong or stupid.



DDT is classified as "moderately toxic" by the United States National Toxicology Program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Toxicology_Program) (NTP) and "moderately hazardous" by the World Health Organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization) (WHO), based on the rat oral LD50 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_lethal_dose) of 113 mg/kg. DDT has on rare occasions been administered orally as a treatment for barbiturate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbiturate) poisoning.

[Wise Old Owl]

Weary - Bacon grease has fantastic shelf life at room tempreture and is better than butter or lard (IMO) for the trail. You made your point- but lots of folks are trying to get away from process foods as the bain of wellness.

[max patch]

Your darn right I use bacon grease. I also drink raw milk and I think butter is good for you.

So sayeth a future member of the zipper club.

[weary]

Weary - Bacon grease has fantastic shelf life at room tempreture and is better than butter or lard (IMO) for the trail. You made your point- but lots of folks are trying to get away from process foods as the bain of wellness.
I agree. I was just suggesting that there are few facts behind some of the beliefs. Most of what humans eat is processed and has been since the dawn of civilization. It's the process known as cooking. Some bacon is simply thinly sliced very fatty pig flesh, doctored up with chemicals and salt. Some is super flavored with an array of chemicals.

Bacon is considered a 'natural" food because the process with with which it is made has been around for centuries. Processed food that lots of folks are trying to get away from use more recent processes. All were created by the human mind. Some old processes are dangerous to human health. Most newer processes are safer than a lot of older procceses because governments now watch such things more closely.

[Transient Being]

Bird stick to what you know - don't quote stuff you know nothing about. Back in the fifties (before my time) I have seen 8 mm movies of dads spraying DDT around children who were eating lunch with no ill effects. Doesn't make it right or wrong or stupid.



DDT is classified as "moderately toxic" by the United States National Toxicology Program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Toxicology_Program) (NTP) and "moderately hazardous" by the World Health Organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization) (WHO), based on the rat oral LD50 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_lethal_dose) of 113 mg/kg. DDT has on rare occasions been administered orally as a treatment for barbiturate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbiturate) poisoning.

I'll have to get back with you once I get home. I've read several books on the subject. The one that I'm thinking of now is titled Silent Spring. It's about how all the chemical insecticides, pesticides and such have had an overall very negative effect. I think the book won a nobel prize or something. Very informative read for anyone interested in the subject.

[restless]

So...anyone been out hiking lately?

[Wise Old Owl]

Don't waste your time "Silent Spring" is a work of fiction. DDT was banned in the United States for political reasons. DDT is used all over the world as a cheap and lasting insecticide. It has saved millions from malaria and other tick and mosquito diseases.

"When U.S. Environmental Protection Agency chief William Ruckelshaus was about to announce his decision to ban DDT in June 1972, he confided to a friend, "There is no scientific basis for banning this chemical --- this is a political decision."

How about we get the thread back on topic.

[bamboo bob]

Pure nonsense of the highest order. Every time you pee or take a dump you "get rid of toxins" This is new age nonsense like crystals and crop circles for people who think there is an "answer" to what ever the problem is. Yes, I have a closed mind to this type of Bull ****.

[swjohnsey]

You just need a coffee enema.

[Transient Being]

Pure nonsense of the highest order. Every time you pee or take a dump you "get rid of toxins" This is new age nonsense like crystals and crop circles for people who think there is an "answer" to what ever the problem is. Yes, I have a closed mind to this type of Bull ****.

This isn't new age, fasting is as old as man. (that's thousands of years by the way, I wouldn't call that "new age") And YES, the master cleanse is a modified type of fast. I'm sure you've never tried a fast of any sort. So thanks for another inexperienced, uneducated opinion. I guess fat soluble toxins are a figment of the imagination. Nevermind that they have been scientifically proven to exist. It's just a bunch of foolishness, science is a fraud!!!! Poisonous chemicals are good for you. Give me a break. The ignorance in this thread is laughable. All of the negative replies come from people who have never done it.......interesting.

[swjohnsey]

I guess the longest I have gone without eating is eight days. It wasn't voluntary.

[4eyedbuzzard]

You just need a coffee enema.Grande or Venti?

[SassyWindsor]

I love oatmeal, at home or away, especially when backpacking. I prefer cut steel oats over any of the other types. The problem with this oatmeal is the cooking time. I am going to start experimenting with cooking them then dehydrating them, cutting my boil time. Fuel is not the problem, I use a wood-burner, but I would like to cut the 15-20 min boil time down to around 5 mins. Please post here if anyone has ideas on pre-prep of the steel cut oats.

[fungi601]

I love oatmeal, at home or away, especially when backpacking. I prefer cut steel oats over any of the other types. The problem with this oatmeal is the cooking time. I am going to start experimenting with cooking them then dehydrating them, cutting my boil time. Fuel is not the problem, I use a wood-burner, but I would like to cut the 15-20 min boil time down to around 5 mins. Please post here if anyone has ideas on pre-prep of the steel cut oats.

I started a new thread for this one.. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?78500-steel-cut-oats-on-the-trail

[fungi601]

Grande or Venti?

Definitely off topic!

Grrande please :D

[colonel r]

Have you ever wondered that so many people have not tried it is because they have enough common sense to know it is fraudulent? You asked for advice and when it doesn't fit your answer it is considered "inexperienced." I suggested before that if you want a cleansing, just do a colonoscopy prep.

As far a fasting goes, yes I have done it and it is as old as man himself. However, it is done to allow one to concentrate more on God than on himself. It is used as a worship experience and nothing else. Some have tried it as a weight loss technique but it is never effective for very long.

I really don't know what you are after. If you hike sufficient distance, you will eat everything you can get your hands on and road kill even looks tempting.

Col R

[Wise Old Owl]

Wow Colonel - great post.... you need to kick in a few more.....

Bird I spent a lot of time - looking to find more information from Nutritionists that have a degree in this. One of freinds will get back to me...

If you are going to do this, here is some modifications to it, two days each week and no more you take this citrus, apple drink and water it down 50 % and sip it for two days.... I peeled the label off and scanned it for you... I am sure there are other products out there like it - the bottom line is consult a doc pr nutritionist before doing all this.

Keep in mind the manufacture has to list the label from largest to smallest ingredient - Apple Puree - is Apple Sauce, you can figure out the rest.


14470

[hikerboy57]

Ill agree with the colonel, with the lakota vison quests, fasting was used to induce hallucinations, ergo the "vision".
scientific "facts" are modified on a regular basis as new "facts" replace the old ones.
it has been "proven "that high doses of Vitamin C are both good and bad for you, depending on the report.

[Wise Old Owl]

Hey good pick up - I missed the vitamin c at 70%

but it was the "cure" for the black plague - ask Nostradamus - he prescribed it first - "Rose Hips" and saved a lot of people except his family in the 1500's

[weary]

Ill agree with the colonel, with the lakota vison quests, fasting was used to induce hallucinations, ergo the "vision".
scientific "facts" are modified on a regular basis as new "facts" replace the old ones.
it has been "proven "that high doses of Vitamin C are both good and bad for you, depending on the report.
Real scientists -- and all ethical and knowledgeable researchers, for that matter -- rarely, if ever, use the word proven when they report on their research. Rather, they recognize that absolute proof is a rare thing. All we can ever do is report the information that appears to us to confirm or dispute prior information that seemed to indicate the truth of some theory, hypothesis, guess, or dream.

This is a complex issue. I could write pages, pages that may or may not be useful. So I won't bother. But for what it's worth, I rarely open messages that claim a proof has been found.

[Wise Old Owl]

Hey Weary I am the same way when I hear the news anchor say - "studies prove" or "recent poll"

[hikerboy57]

i used to do some multilevel marketing for a company selling vitamin supplements, focused primarily on a substance called pycnogenol(french maritime pine bark extract), which is very high in proanthrocyanadins, claimed to have antioxidant qualities 20x that of vitamin C.they sold me tapes with all kinds of testimonials claiming cures for everything from shingles to cancer. It seems every year they've discovered a new "miracle"cure-grape seed extract, acai seems to be the latest, MSM CoQ10 among othr substances. Ive been blessed with good genes and a strong immune system, so I very rarely get sick. But I would buy these supplements, and feel that they made me "fell better, more energy, etc.", but in the ned, I think the plaxcebo effect was stronger than the actual supplement. and theyre making better placebos every year.
If we werent so darn lazy, wed realize that proper diet and regular exercise(getting your heart rate up for 45-60 minutes a day), are enough to stay in relatively good health.
But if you feel a cleanse works for you, who am i to tell you otherwise?

[hikerboy57]

question everything.

[JAK]

question everything.everything?

;-)

[Wise Old Owl]

Bird hasn't posted since the 13th

[hikerboy57]

everything?

;-)ive been watching too much NOVA

[hikerboy57]

although I dont feel theres anything wrong with taking supplements, and most do have many beneficial qualities, as does fasting. But when you start bringing up things like ancient greek health remedies, as far as I know, the life expectancy back then was less than half what it is today,and most greeks had a diet that included olives, grapes and figs, all of which have high antioxidant properties, and are very rich in nutrients that most likely contibuted to good health.. in spite of us eating all kinds of crap, leading a more sedentary lifestyle, etc.,we're living longer than ever before.there are no miracle cures and many factors contribute to living longer(including hiking!). I also believe you get the results you expect from any supplement due to the placebo effect.if you believe it works, it generally does.

[Hoofit]

Bird achieved so much success on his liquid diet that last night he took his last piss in the bathtub and totally dissolved down the plughole..........never to be seen again

[Wise Old Owl]

The issue here is his approach, he didn't say- Hey I am going to try this what do you think? He posted I am going to do this and then argued with anyone that took opposition while looking for validation. Almost looking for praise for doing something counter productive.

I am sure we have all done this at one time or another. It's knowing that you did it and not doing it again.

[rhjanes]

We had Mikey try it at work. He'll try anything. He was good the first day. No adverse affects. The second day.....
I was sitting in my cube and the phone rang. I could barely make out what was said, but it was Mikey. Something about his colon blowing up. I think he owes the janitor a LARGE Christmas bonus.

[Wise Old Owl]

You can't be serious..... second day? was alcohol involved?

[weary]

although I dont feel theres anything wrong with taking supplements, and most do have many beneficial qualities, as does fasting. But when you start bringing up things like ancient greek health remedies, as far as I know, the life expectancy back then was less than half what it is today,and most greeks had a diet that included olives, grapes and figs, all of which have high antioxidant properties, and are very rich in nutrients that most likely contibuted to good health.. in spite of us eating all kinds of crap, leading a more sedentary lifestyle, etc.,we're living longer than ever before.there are no miracle cures and many factors contribute to living longer(including hiking!). I also believe you get the results you expect from any supplement due to the placebo effect.if you believe it works, it generally does.
It's hard to escape supplements these day. My bran flakes contain a long list of vitamins and minerals, that no "natural" bran flakes have heard about. Even the orange juice I drink every morning promises to contain "more calcium than milk," 120% vitamin C, and a lot of vitamin D.

But I've never taken multivitamin pills, even on my long trail walk. I picked up containers once or twice from hiker boxes, but quickly discarded them in the next hiker box I came to. Just walking was complicated enough without worrying about pills.

These days my doctors insist I take Vitamin B-12 regularly, and a combination of Calcium and Vitamin D3. But otherwise I ignore supplements pretty much. So far with no ill effects, except possibly the onset of old age. Surely that can't be happening to someone who is still just working towards 83.

[mrclean417]

,and most greeks had a diet that included olives, grapes and figs, all of which have high antioxidant properties, and are very rich in nutrients that most likely contibuted to good health..

Heck the Romans had many recipes that used Lead infused Red Wine. I've always wondered how much different or better it tastes like that but I'm kinda trying to protect that one last brain cell I have.

[JAK]

I'm saving my last brain cell for a hit of acid.
Until then, I am squandring what I can here on WB.

[July]

So...anyone been out hiking lately?
I suggest ALL contributors to this thread assemble at agreeable trailhead and enjoy a week of hiking TOGETHER! Sure to be interesting...:)

[JAK]

... and we'll all do the Master Cleanse together while we are at it, just to make it even more interesting. :-)

[hikerboy57]

whioo was bringing the acid?

[JAK]

Hey now, I still have plenty of brain cells left. Most of them hardly used.
Check back in another 30 years or so.

[weary]

There's a new medical breakthrough that only now is becoming widely known. It involves brain transplants. I have an acquaintance who is a pioneer patient for the new technique. He recently spent a morning meeting with a team of doctors, who explained his options. "A doctor's brain will cost $50,000, a scientist's brain $35,000,' and a journalist's $100,000."

"Why does a journalist's brain cost so much?" my friend protested.

"Easy," the docs explained. "The journalist's brain has never been used."

[hikerboy57]

this journalist, is it abby normal?

[Wise Old Owl]

Well the master cleanse is more like the OMG. Yesterday I missed breakfast so I figured what the hell - I am not going to do water and maple syrup. So I went to the kitchen - Grabbed a quart bottle, put 1 cup of Grapefruit juice, 1 Cup of Pear juice 1/2 cup of Orange Juice, 1/4 a cup Applesauce, 1 powdered multivitamin... Ice and water. Shook it up. I added 1 additional bottle of water - so basically I drank well over 1/2 a gallon of liquid over some 8 hours. Later that night 7pm I had 1/2 a Tuna Hoagie because the hunger pangs were so bad.

I got up this morning and weighed in at 235 lbs - that's a two pound loss.

Doing the same today....

[mrclean417]

I want to Master Cleanse, I'll just east some Saurkraut and Polish sausage.

I swear I should just eat that meal on the toilet.

[Wise Old Owl]

Never made it... Terri a registered professional nutritionist. With more letters after her name that I can remember, got back to me today and we discussed the benefits of a Master Cleanse. Great news - It's an old wife's tale from the dark ages and gained legs on the internet. It has no benefit. Sometimes it dis lodges a stone gall & kidney... not a good idea. She put it up there with Bigfoot & Ufo's.... and how to solve bed bug infestations on your own.

Oh today - the pain in my head and my stomach was so bad by lunchtime I popped a painkiller and Hydroxicut and caved by 2pm... got me a sandwich - now I am going to BBQ a steak in the rain,,,,

You can all go home now - nothing to see here..... The Evangelist and the soapbox professing a wonderful tale has left the building. - and is on my Ignore list.

Evangelism refers to the practice of relaying information about a particular set of beliefs to others who do not hold those beliefs. The term is often used in reference to Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity).

[Wise Old Owl]

Can we now move this officially to the Non Hiking Humor Forum? - clearly its a joke.

[RevLee]

Way back in message #88, bird said something that I think we can all agree on about Master Cleanse - "everything just seems to flow"

[Transient Being]

“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecutedMe, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me."

^^Jesus speaking. Jesus also believed in fasting. If you don't know Jesus, ask Him to come into your life today, He loves you all. I just checked this for the first time in a few weeks, I'm really not suprised at all the critical responses or offended by them. All they do is simply show your own criticalness and judgementalness. God bless you all.

[Transient Being]

Just to let everybody know, I'm not gonna check this anymore. The only ones left in the conversation are all the mockers and scoffers. What a suprise. Broad is the gate and wide is the road that leads to destruction and many are on it, but narrow is the way that leads to life and few there be that find it. If you find yourself in the majority of opinion, you might be heading the wrong way. If you aren't a Christian, I pray that you try Jesus.

[rocketsocks]

Jesus was'nt a high presure salesman,he hung around the dreggs of society and spoke to those that wanted to listen.

[LDog]

I want to Master Cleanse, I'll just east some Saurkraut and Polish sausage. I swear I should just eat that meal on the toilet.

Mix some apple sauce with the saurkraut. It'll taste delicious, and speed up the master cleanse process ...

[rocketsocks]

Sorry I forgot "I"before "E"except after "C",unless it sounds like "A" as in neighbor and weigh or someth'in like that.

[JAK]

Who Jesus really was, or how he really lived, God only knows.

[JAK]

Sorry I forgot "I"before "E"except after "C",unless it sounds like "A" as in neighbor and weigh or someth'in like that.Remember also that sometimes the Pee is silent, as in swimming.

[Wise Old Owl]

Just to let everybody know, I'm not gonna check this anymore. The only ones left in the conversation are all the mockers and scoffers. What a suprise. Broad is the gate and wide is the road that leads to destruction and many are on it, but narrow is the way that leads to life and few there be that find it. If you find yourself in the majority of opinion, you might be heading the wrong way. If you aren't a Christian, I pray that you try Jesus.

Bird - some of us have tried it and I have had two doctors and a Nutitionist say this is FOS. It's another tale of the internet - from a weight loss perspective - it's no majic pill - I was clear in the last couple of posts - You need to get a life. I don't see Bird312 MD.

[JAK]

Is the Master Cleans fasting? I don't think so.
I am not all that sure it's even cleansing.

[JAK]

Also, I didn't know they had maple syrup in the Holy Land.

[LDog]

Just to let everybody know, I'm not gonna check this anymore.

Praise be!

[mrclean417]

Mix some apple sauce with the sauerkraut. It'll taste delicious, and speed up the master cleanse process ...

I got a guy in a model airplane club that mixes in applesauce, bacon and brown sugar with just the sauerkraut. I don't know what else is in there, could be beard trimmings, I don't care. It ceases to be Sauerkraut and transforms into just pure wonderfullness. It's a side, it's a dessert, it's just good.

And it shoots out just as fast.

[hikerboy57]

Just to let everybody know, I'm not gonna check this anymore. The only ones left in the conversation are all the mockers and scoffers. What a suprise. Broad is the gate and wide is the road that leads to destruction and many are on it, but narrow is the way that leads to life and few there be that find it. If you find yourself in the majority of opinion, you might be heading the wrong way. If you aren't a Christian, I pray that you try Jesus.usually the ones who claim to be "closer to god" are the ones who are the farthest away.

[JAK]

wouldn't that gum up those tiny engines? ;-)

[rhjanes]

Jesus endorses the Master Cleanse? Don't think so. He endorsed fasting for spiritual needs. Not to blow out your colon. Kidneys, Livers and Lungs are the “toxin” removers.

[rocketsocks]

Visine in a cup of coffee,,,,works pretty good, ask the guy that took my hammer and did'nt bring it back for two day's:D

[rocketsocks]

See the thing was,he said he sat it down somwhere and forgot where he left it,he thought he'd left where the sun did'nt shine...................So I thought i would help him look.:D

[Sailing_Faith]

See the thing was,he said he sat it down somwhere and forgot where he left it,he thought he'd left where the sun did'nt shine...................So I thought i would help him look.:D

How very thoughtful of you...

[Sailing_Faith]

Just an interesting note... the op began this thread with;


Ok, I'm sure some of you are gonna think this is completely insane, and I can appreciate that, but.....

[rocketsocks]

How very thoughtful of you...I try to be helpful....when I can.And I don't think the OP is insane,do you?

[Odd Man Out]

Any "cleanse" fans still following this thread should check out the link on the shampoo page. It will right up your alley.

[Theosus]

If you really want to Master Cleanse - try "GoLytely" available from your physician by prescription. A couple glasses of that and you could do a four day hike without needing your Orange trowel. it will even get rid of that gum that supposedly takes five years to get out of your colon. I came to this one late, but the whole idea of removing "toxins" seems silly to me anyway. What are these toxins no one will mention by name?

[Sailing_Faith]

I try to be helpful....when I can.And I don't think the OP is insane,do you?

You know, that is an interesting question. My professional experience includes much more time having been spent in 'un-diagnosing' people then diagnosing them. Even if I had a particular opinion here it would be wrong for me to share it... so I will not.

I will say that there is a 'range of normal behavour' and that many of us who post on this site are probably closer the the margins of what might be considered 'normal' then the general population.

Folks here seem to have a desire to leave the comfort of their homes and prefer to spend time outdoors. This is not strange in and of itself, unless you consider the levels of comfort our modern society provides...
We can move from place to place in cars with little effort and no discomfort. If we are too hot, we can turn on air conditioning... too cold? Turn on a little heat.

Folks here will abandon that, and prefer to seek out discomfort. We walk, and carry everything on our backs... we make decisions in our lives that many (most) would not consider sane... and we willingly surrender comfort, employment, social connections... and hike off into the woods. Anti-social? Can be...

No, I will not be calling anyone here less then sane. It seems to be that there is a great diversity in normal behavior... and that all behavior is normal in the context of ones thoughts and experience.

So No... probably not.

[rocketsocks]

Thank you Doctor.....I concure.

[swjohnsey]

Anyone who thinks there are impacted toxin in their colon have not had a colonoscopy.