View Full Version : cold brr
strollingalong
11-01-2011, 03:03
I have a reasonably strong extremity shut down with the cold. Wanna keep toasty
What are your best long john recommendations, gloves, hats, socks, comfy camp shoes etc. The wet worries me little, it's the cold that gives me the willies the most.
What degree should I be looking at for my bag? 20? I have a silk liner that'll help a insy bit.
Tipi Walter
11-01-2011, 08:49
I have a reasonably strong extremity shut down with the cold. Wanna keep toasty
What are your best long john recommendations, gloves, hats, socks, comfy camp shoes etc. The wet worries me little, it's the cold that gives me the willies the most.
What degree should I be looking at for my bag? 20? I have a silk liner that'll help a insy bit.
This topic has been covered extensively here at Whiteblaze. First off, I won't go out in the winter without a subzero bag like my Western Mteering Puma rated at -15F. Overkill? Naw, not when you're at 5,000 feet in the mountains of NC or TN or VA in January or February. And I won't go out unless I'm carrying a beefy overkill high Rvalue sleeping pad, like the Exped Downmat at 8R. These two items almost guarantee winter survival unless a person screws up his shelter choice or falls into a ice covered river. Once a high quality down bag is acquired, concentrate on finding a pad system which works for you. Some winter backpackers swear on the two pad system---a closed cell foam pad along with an inflatable pad, used together. The foam pad helps with warmth and is an emergency backup in case the inflatable gets punctured.
I only bring one pad, like the Exped, but then I'm fanatically careful on using and transporting my inflatable pads (and I always bring a couple repair kits). Another good winter pad is the NeoAir All Season at 5R.
If you're serious about keeping toasty you will want to invest in an overkill down parka and down pants as below:
http://www.trailspace.com/assets/e/8/c/44684/TRIP-117-219.jpg
Here's a Feathered Friends Icefall parka and WM Flight down pants---a great combo for long term living outdoors in the Appalachian mountains. Of course, you'll never actually be backpacking in these things---too hot---but they will save your butt when you get to camp and have to spend 16 hours sitting around waiting for first light.
The best long johns I've found are the Icebreaker merino wool ones and are part of my standard winter load, and I've tried all the polypro and capilene ones. Put the Icebreaker's on and then slap on the down pants and you're set for 0F with no problem.
Gloves are personal and temporary, in that gloves wear out fast and are easily replaceable. Here's the rule: Always bring two pair of gloves because one will get wet and one must stay dry. The Adirondack Club recommends the three glove layering system: An inner lightweight thing, a overglove warm mitten, and an outer mitten shell.
Socks are personal too and some people like the layered approach using two socks---it doesn't work for me since one of the pair invariably "rucks" up causing hot spots. My long term favorite sock is the Smartwool Mountaineer sock, the thickest pair they make. As with gloves, always bring two pair, one for hiking and one for sleeping. Keep the sleeping pair ALWAYS dry, and if the first pair gets wet, put them on for hiking the next day wet---it'll be cold at first but you'll warm up soon enough.
For me comfy camp shoes is either a pair of crocs or a pair of WM down booties. Extravagance? Down booties are worth their weight in gold when you're living in a snow environment and hanging out by your shelter. You can walk thru deep snow in a pair of booties with the ensolite foam soles, and won't feel the cold underneath at all.
The Old Boot
11-01-2011, 09:58
For me comfy camp shoes is either a pair of crocs or a pair of WM down booties. Extravagance? Down booties are worth their weight in gold when you're living in a snow environment and hanging out by your shelter. You can walk thru deep snow in a pair of booties with the ensolite foam soles, and won't feel the cold underneath at all.
How tough are the ensolite soles...the reason I ask is because I'm thinking of a pair of lighter down booties for around the apartment this winter. The floors are carpet/hardwood directly over concrete pad. My feet get so cold without footwear and I hate wearing shoes inside all the time. I've worn out a pair of bootie slippers each winter, always the soles, the uppers are fine. Before I invest in down I want to make sure that they will last.
Tipi Walter
11-01-2011, 10:13
How tough are the ensolite soles...the reason I ask is because I'm thinking of a pair of lighter down booties for around the apartment this winter. The floors are carpet/hardwood directly over concrete pad. My feet get so cold without footwear and I hate wearing shoes inside all the time. I've worn out a pair of bootie slippers each winter, always the soles, the uppers are fine. Before I invest in down I want to make sure that they will last.
I wouldn't use booties for indoor use as the feet tend to slide around some inside the actual bootie, but they're great in a camping situation when long walking is keep to a minimum and you still want to stand in snow or sit around in the tent.
Bear Cables
11-01-2011, 10:30
Tipi, great info but don't the down booties get wet in the snow? Do you have a problem with damp or wet down loosing loft?
Tipi Walter
11-01-2011, 19:58
Tipi, great info but don't the down booties get wet in the snow? Do you have a problem with damp or wet down loosing loft?
My WM booties have a waterproof bottom that comes up about 3 inches all around the booties. Plus, it's generally so cold that the snow is not melting. Slush and mud and wet snow are not the conditions for a down bootie, but when it's 5F with 18 inches of snow on the ground, well, the booties do very well on short walks around camp.
My WM booties have a waterproof bottom that comes up about 3 inches all around the booties. Plus, it's generally so cold that the snow is not melting. Slush and mud and wet snow are not the conditions for a down bootie, but when it's 5F with 18 inches of snow on the ground, well, the booties do very well on short walks around camp.
Tipi - I asked this in another thread but I think you missed it... Where do you buy your Wintersilks - direct or from a store? I'm looking for some and am trying to find the best price.
Tipi Walter
11-01-2011, 20:56
Tipi - I asked this in another thread but I think you missed it... Where do you buy your Wintersilks - direct or from a store? I'm looking for some and am trying to find the best price.
Check out this thread:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?78107-Cold-Weather-Clothing/page2
Tipi is a walking clothing store - I bet his winter pack weighs 55 pounds - no kidding - but the guy is warm - I do a lot of the same things and he is right about a Western Mountaineering Down Jacket and an over-kill sleeping bag - I have a 0 and even a -20 - I wear icebreaker wool long johns when it's super cold and just regular patagonia mid-weights the rest of the time. I do a good fleece arcteryx sweater over that under the down and of course a cover the ears stocking cap with fleecy ears. Being that when it's really cold in camp my feet and legs are down in my sleeping bag anyway, I really don't need the pants or booties -- my pants are just patagonia hard shell ski type pants - - if it's single digits, if I'm walking around camp, I'm either fire building or taking care of business - neither of which require down pants.
coach lou
11-01-2011, 22:24
in '04' had to dump my M-1949 mummy bag, it just couldn't hold feathers anymore. I replaced it with the western mountaineering puma also. Excellent investment. I only can zip it up in Febuary!!!
Tipi Walter
11-01-2011, 23:34
in '04' had to dump my M-1949 mummy bag, it just couldn't hold feathers anymore. I replaced it with the western mountaineering puma also. Excellent investment. I only can zip it up in Febuary!!!
Same thing here, I usually use my Puma unzipped and thrown over like a blanket, but when I need it at -10F, the thing is zipped and warm.
Echraide
11-02-2011, 00:11
Tiki, how much does your winter gear weigh and what kind of pack do you use to carry it?
Leanthree
11-02-2011, 00:55
This topic has been covered extensively here at Whiteblaze. First off, I won't go out in the winter without a subzero bag like my Western Mteering Puma rated at -15F. Overkill? Naw, not when you're at 5,000 feet in the mountains of NC or TN or VA in January or February.
Just looked up the -25 degree cousin of this bag and it makes me giddy just thinking how fluffy and wonderful 36 oz of 850 fill down must be. For comparison, that is 4.5x as much fill as my 40 degree marmot Atom for only 3x the price. A deal!
(this is how I end up convincing myself that I really need to get into winter backpacking and $5,000 later the down goose is extinct)
I have a strange cold weather setup I guess.
For sleeping bags, if it's going to be below 10* I take both my 20* and 45* Mont Bell down bags and put one inside the other. I've been around 0* with no clothes on and been toasty warm. I also have a 0* bag but the combo weighs about the same and if the temps rise I can just use the 20* bag and leave the 45* bag in my pack.
For upper bodylayers, I'm 100% merino wool (long sleeve with short sleeve over that) and if it's really cold I'll wear my Mont Bell Thermowrap with my hooded down coat over that. Never been uncomfortable with this setup. I like having the Thermowrap along because it's not down.
Lower body - merino wool long johns - usually carry mid-weight.
Gloves - Wool liners inside OR PL 400 mittens with eVent mitts over that.
Socks - Merino wool - usually mid-weight. Also have my goosefeet booties, always a nice tough.
Hat - Goto hat is wool watch cap from army surplus. Also have my Blackrock down beanie for sleeping. I've also got an assortment of buffs and balaclavas to choose from.
Tipi Walter
11-02-2011, 10:12
Tiki, how much does your winter gear weigh and what kind of pack do you use to carry it?
I have no real idea how much my winter gear weighs, as in the bag and the pad and the merino layers and the parka and the pants and booties, etc. I do know my overall pack weight with 20 days of food commonly and routinely reaches around 80+ lbs. This also includes candles for hand warming in the tent, several books (up to five and all burned during the trip), a camera with five extra batteries, a small radio with around 8 AA batteries, and the usual 45+ lbs of food. I like to stay out for around 20 days and I do not want, need or like to resupply.
When it comes to winter gear like parkas or down bags, well, the highest quality stuff is the lightest. Stuff like Feathered Friends, Western Mountaineering and Valandre. Even the Hilleberg four season tents are a couple lbs lighter than other four season tents with the same square footage. In other words, the best stuff is the lightest stuff. I use a Mystery Ranch G6000 internal pack to carry all this stuff and it's the first pack I've found which can haul heavy weight with no sagging and with some amount of comfort.