January Start

[michelle_wingerter]

I want to do a northbound thru hike starting in the middle of January. Has anyone here done this? Does anyone have advice for winter hiking? I don't have much backpacking experience, so any advice at all would be appreciated.

Right now I have an REI Quarter Dome T1 for a shelter and a Marmot Trestles 0 for a bag (Yes, I know it's huge and heavy. But it should keep me warm, and it was one of the few bags I could afford). I also have an Exped Downmat 7 for a mat and a Montbell Thermawrap jacket for my insulating layer. I'll probably bring the thermawrap and a fleece and a capilene baselayer and a rain jacket and some other shirt--I'm thinking that should be enough to keep me warm (at least on top) even on cold days...maybe?

I'm starting in January because I graduate from college in December and because I would love to experience the trail in winter. I know it'll be cold and snowy. I know there won't be many people hiking. I know it'll be a lot more complicated than hiking in the spring/summer. But I really want to do this, and I would really appreciate your help.

[campingfever]

Chapstick, sunglasses and a pull over toboggan that completely covers your head, face and neck. The kind that only exposes your eyes is great for sleeping in at night. Keep your head warm and dry at night and you will greatly increase your warmth, comfort and safety.

[HiKen2011]

Trek started January 1 2011, it can be done, stay warm!

[FatMan]

Since you have little backpacking experience I would strongly suggest you start at the more traditional time. Winter backpacking is for the experienced only, and without experience is frankly dangerous. During the traditional start time you will have plenty of support along the way.

[Creek Dancer]

Get a good pair of waterproof mittens. Mittens are warmer than gloves.

Always be sure to keep warm dry clothes for camp, even if that means putting on cold wet things in the morning before you start hiking for the day.

[kayak karl]

i did jan and feb. just keep the calories up :)

[wornoutboots]

i did jan and feb. just keep the calories up :)

Check out KK trail Journal & many others that have started 1/1/ & you'll be much better prepared trailjournals.com

[Feral Bill]

For a person with little experience, this is a bad idea, especially solo. Either start later next spring or spend this winter gaining winter experience and go the next year. Please, reread Fatman's post and take it very seriously. Not trying to be a wet blanket, just concerned.

[bamboo bob]

The thing about the AT is that its a long skinny trail and your are never far from a road or a town. It is NOT the wilderness. So go for it. There will be others out there who can help if you get in real trouble and you can get off the trail at many places. I've snowshoed on the AT and it can be very difficult to see blazes in a storm or right after a storm. So hole up in a shelter during storms. Don't let anyone talk you out of it , you'll have a blast. Bring money.

[michelle_wingerter]

Let me just say that I know this is a terrible, dangerous, very bad idea. I appreciate the concern of those who have and will tell me to start later, etc. But I'm doing it anyway. I started this thread because even though I don't have experience, I know some of you do. So please, if you want to help me, tell me what I need to know to keep from killing myself when I'm on the AT come January.

[Marta]

It can definitely be done, though very, very few succeed. Dealing with the cold takes more experience than you might think. Lots of people think they will enjoy the solitude, but few actually do. Then there are the financial issues. A start that early means that you must either hike very slowly--and more days on the trail makes a hike much more expensive--or means you will reaching NH and Maine while there is still snow in the mountains. That's not an insurmountable problem--as someone pointed out, Trek manges to do it every year--but it does present serious complications.

A plan that is more likely to be successful, and fun, would be to work for a few months and save up some extra money, then start in April when the weather will be more pleasant and the AT social scene will be in full swing. Please look on Trailjournals for the stories of people who have started in January. It should be sobering.

[Papa D]

Your experience level worries me. I backpack quite a lot in the winter and enjoy it but will tell you that there is a certain skill set necessary for regular backpacking and an enhanced skill-set for winter backpacking. Since apparently you have little (or no) skills, it's sort of like a non swimmer learning to water ski or a non rock climber taking up ice climbing - it can be done, but the deck is stacked somewhat against you. Bamboo Bob is right that it's not too hard to get off the trail - but the trail can also be a big lonely place when things go wrong and "wilderness" is a great magnifier of small problems. I'm not going to post a bunch of "how to" stuff like - stay warm, dry hydrated, sheltered, etc. - you can figure out all these details but here is a list of things that might tip the scales (in a general sense) in your favor.

1) Youth - this can be bad or good, but we'll go with good for now
2) Excellent physical conditioning - backpacking is physical endurance exercise - you need to know this now - you can't fake it.
3) Whiteblaze - read the posts of experienced backpackers - especially winter ones - Tipi Walter, Garlic, MAGS, 10-K, Wise old Owl, and others - get a feel for what to carry (and, more importantly, what not to carry)
4) PRACTICE - if you want to start a Thru in January, you've got about 10 weekends - get out backpacking somewhere now - test your skills and your gear - see if you like it.
5) Find an experienced friend to join you for the first week or so to get you going - P/M me even, I can always do a few days.

Now here are a few big pit-falls

1) You don't really know if you want to do this -- your own mind will pull you off the trail at the first road - you will have to have a lot of determination (and in winter, a whole heckava lot)
2) Fatman made a good point - winter backpacking is serious stuff (at times) only you know if your head is good enough to work out problems - temper this against Bamboo Bob's post and decide yourself
3) A really cold snowy winter - this would just be impossible for anyone but the most experienced person to overcome - Esp. Franklin, NC through the smokies to Erwin -- forget it -- wait it out at best.
4) Running out of money - in the winter, even the most experienced hiker will do 1-2 hostels a week - the other 3 seasons, I might only get a bunk and a shower every 10-14 days or so.
5) Loneliness - there won't be many hikers out until March - you'll have a great head start on most NOBOS which means you'll avoid the crowds but I'd bring a book and an I-pod.

Be safe and have fun - if you want to, you can do it.

[Slo-go'en]

Winter hiking/camping isn't too bad for a week or two. Which on average is about how long people who try to start in Jan end up staying on the trail. Being in the cold, dealing with frozen water, food, boots and anything else which can get damp or wet 24/7 gets pretty old, pretty quick.

Actually, the first two weeks while your still in GA probably won't be too bad, but once you climb into NC and your now up at 5 and 6 thousand feet all the time, during the coldest and often the snowist month of the year (Feb), you will start to question the wisdom of being out there. If we have another winter like last year (and we might), your not going anywhere.

Winter hiking/camping isn't something you can learn from a book or from advice given on an internet forum, though that will point you in the right direction to start. One really has to learn by experiance and that is best done slowly doing short trips in order to start getting the hang of things and learn what works for you and what doesn't. Jumping into it and learning it sink or swim kind of fashion really isn't a great idea.

The other problem is, if you do somehow stick with it and make slow but steady progress up the trail, your following the worst of the spring weather up the trail. You'll be cold and wet more often than not probably all the way to New England and maybe beyond.

If your serious about completing a thru, want until at least mid March to start. Use the dead time between graduation and then to either make some money or doing short trips to get that winter camping experiance and some backpacking skills. Doing that will pay big dividens and greatly increase your chances of a succesfull thru-hike.

[mountain squid]

tell me what I need to know to keep from killing myself when I'm on the AT come January.Cold weather aside, you need to have skills at following a footpath that, at times, might be non-existent. If there is substantial snow you will not see the actual trail. You also won't see many of the white blazes on the trees. If you follow someone else's foot prints and they aren't going the correct way . . . well, next thing you know, you are lost (if you've lost the blazes, always look behind you for a SOBO blaze, you might get lucky and see one).

Carry maps.
Carry a compass.
Have the knowledge on how to use the previous two items.

Yes, Trek has done this numerous times (maybe 10?), so Trek knows where to go even if there is snow. A couple yrs ago Trek missed the snow in the Smoky's (that everyone else had to post-hole through) but got slowed down in the Roan Highlands. As I recall, he missed the relo that we had done on Little Hump because the snow was so deep that it covered the posts with the blazes on them. It wasn't too big a problem for him, because he knew the general direction of the trail.

When there is that much snow, you daily mileage will drop drastically. Post holing is VERY difficult. If you make only 6 miles on a day you had planned to do 15, that likely means that you will spend an extra night on the trail. Which means you'll need more food. Normally it is pretty easy to figure out your resupply points and carry the appropriate amount of food to the next resupply . . . if there is 2, 3, or 6 feet of snow on the ground . . . . be prepared to carry extra food.

If you are dead set on doing this, you might contact the Hiker Hostel (http://hikerhostel.com/slackpack.php). They may be able to slack you through GA.

Good Luck and Have Fun!! Dress Warmly.

See you on the trail,
mt squid

how to hike
(http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?73587-how-to-hike)observations (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?14493-observations-from-fs42-(advice-for-first-week-on-trail))

[Slo-go'en]

So please, if you want to help me, tell me what I need to know to keep from killing myself when I'm on the AT come January.

Ahh, the arrogance of youth. Seems we have been seeing a lot of this lately. The best thing you can do to keep from killing yourself is to get some serious experiance first. Then decide if you can handle it 24/7 for a couple of months. If that is not possible, wait a couple of months before going.

We can give you pages and pages of advice, but none of it will sink in or do any good until you experiance it first hand and as I said earlier, this is best done in short dosages with quick and easy bale out options.

Good luck.

[DapperD]

Let me just say that I know this is a terrible, dangerous, very bad idea. I appreciate the concern of those who have and will tell me to start later, etc. But I'm doing it anyway. I started this thread because even though I don't have experience, I know some of you do. So please, if you want to help me, tell me what I need to know to keep from killing myself when I'm on the AT come January.Make sure to carry a charged working cell phone with you at all times.

[Tipi Walter]

Everyone has made good points. Postholing should be the main word in your vocabulary and will become an eventual curse word if you stick with your plan.

Here's the best advice I can give: Start sleeping outside every night right now. Throw out a bedroll or set up a tent/shelter on your deck or porch or in your backyard and test your sleeping bag and pad. Start getting your winter bag nights now before the actual trip.

[peakseeker]

I did it once.... and never will again. Cold snowy hikes are not fun - for me anyway. Fun and Sightseeing are minimal during these times. But if you must...just be prepared for a lot of down time. You will do the same distance - almost as if you had left in February.

[kayak karl]

seriously if u decide to do this, check to see if posters ever did it before. i got a TON of bad advice on WB. the best advice i got was on the trail (12/31/08 was my FIRST time on the trail and first time long distance) Rock, Marta, Hog on Ice, Darkman and Trek were great helps. Take-a-knee helped with gear list.
had a great time and would not trade it for the world. LOL took a year to get back the 4 lost toenails back.

[Lone Wolf]

I want to do a northbound thru hike starting in the middle of January. Has anyone here done this? Does anyone have advice for winter hiking? I don't have much backpacking experience, so any advice at all would be appreciated.

Right now I have an REI Quarter Dome T1 for a shelter and a Marmot Trestles 0 for a bag (Yes, I know it's huge and heavy. But it should keep me warm, and it was one of the few bags I could afford). I also have an Exped Downmat 7 for a mat and a Montbell Thermawrap jacket for my insulating layer. I'll probably bring the thermawrap and a fleece and a capilene baselayer and a rain jacket and some other shirt--I'm thinking that should be enough to keep me warm (at least on top) even on cold days...maybe?

I'm starting in January because I graduate from college in December and because I would love to experience the trail in winter. I know it'll be cold and snowy. I know there won't be many people hiking. I know it'll be a lot more complicated than hiking in the spring/summer. But I really want to do this, and I would really appreciate your help.better have a lot of cash. you'll be spending a lot on motels, hostels and restaurants

[Kookork]

Your experience level worries me. I backpack quite a lot in the winter and enjoy it but will tell you that there is a certain skill set necessary for regular backpacking and an enhanced skill-set for winter backpacking. Since apparently you have little (or no) skills, it's sort of like a non swimmer learning to water ski or a non rock climber taking up ice climbing - it can be done, but the deck is stacked somewhat against you. Bamboo Bob is right that it's not too hard to get off the trail - but the trail can also be a big lonely place when things go wrong and "wilderness" is a great magnifier of small problems. I'm not going to post a bunch of "how to" stuff like - stay warm, dry hydrated, sheltered, etc. - you can figure out all these details but here is a list of things that might tip the scales (in a general sense) in your favor.

1) Youth - this can be bad or good, but we'll go with good for now
2) Excellent physical conditioning - backpacking is physical endurance exercise - you need to know this now - you can't fake it.
3) Whiteblaze - read the posts of experienced backpackers - especially winter ones - Tipi Walter, Garlic, MAGS, 10-K, Wise old Owl, and others - get a feel for what to carry (and, more importantly, what not to carry)
4) PRACTICE - if you want to start a Thru in January, you've got about 10 weekends - get out backpacking somewhere now - test your skills and your gear - see if you like it.
5) Find an experienced friend to join you for the first week or so to get you going - P/M me even, I can always do a few days.

Now here are a few big pit-falls

1) You don't really know if you want to do this -- your own mind will pull you off the trail at the first road - you will have to have a lot of determination (and in winter, a whole heckava lot)
2) Fatman made a good point - winter backpacking is serious stuff (at times) only you know if your head is good enough to work out problems - temper this against Bamboo Bob's post and decide yourself
3) A really cold snowy winter - this would just be impossible for anyone but the most experienced person to overcome - Esp. Franklin, NC through the smokies to Erwin -- forget it -- wait it out at best.
4) Running out of money - in the winter, even the most experienced hiker will do 1-2 hostels a week - the other 3 seasons, I might only get a bunk and a shower every 10-14 days or so.
5) Loneliness - there won't be many hikers out until March - you'll have a great head start on most NOBOS which means you'll avoid the crowds but I'd bring a book and an I-pod.

Be safe and have fun - if you want to, you can do it.

I absolutely admire you who took time to give our friend a beautifull sets of advice.

[Kookork]

The thing about the AT is that its a long skinny trail and your are never far from a road or a town. It is NOT the wilderness. So go for it. There will be others out there who can help if you get in real trouble and you can get off the trail at many places. I've snowshoed on the AT and it can be very difficult to see blazes in a storm or right after a storm. So hole up in a shelter during storms. Don't let anyone talk you out of it , you'll have a blast. Bring money.

Dear Bamboo Bob

Keeping your age in account, it is possible to assume you could have a son in his age (just assume,ok) .Do you give the same advice to yours? Go for it? Where is older hikers resonsibility here to be safe?

[Papa D]

I did the State of CT - 54 miles in an average of a foot of snow in 4 days this past winter -it was fun as all get out for me but each 12 mile day or so took me 10 hours of hard work - I saw no hikers - bear footprints and some people taking pictures at the Falls on the Housatonic R. - post-holeing. yak-traxing and mud slogging - The longest winter section I've done (on the AT) in full snow was from Hot Springs to Elk Park including all of the Roans - this took me almost 2 weeks (I think) and it is just over 110 miles - I think there was snow all the way. (this is a fun, almost casual week for me in most conditions) if you are in good physical shape (and I mean really, really good) you could do this. The hardest section would be from Franklin, NC through the Smokies to about Damascus, VA - if you could make Damascus by March, you'd be partying like its 1999 - see my earlier cautionary post. I also like Tipi's idea of starting to sleep outside now -- fyi, I'm leaving tomorrow at 5 am to hike the GSMNP - might be a little chilly!

[Papa D]

um - thanks Kookork, I guess - FYI, I hiked the Long Trail alongside Bamboo Bob in 2010 and we shared a couple of hundred miles of trail - he's a pretty responsible guy - I know he's done an AT Thru, and LT thru, and a JMT thru (I think) --- anyway, I don't think his post advocated being "unsafe" or less than "cautions" -- we all know that the OP is a little out of their comfort level here (certainly the OP does too) -- I think his post makes sense - people bail off of the trail all the time - the OP isn't (probably) going to die on a winter attempt - they might hike hotel to hotel and pretty much make the same time they would by starting a month or two later but there is nothing irresponsible about Bob's post in my opinion. FYI - last time I saw Bamboo Bob, I was leaving a shelter in VT in a rainstorm at 5 PM for a little 10 mile evening hike - I KNOW he thought I was nuts (and I am).

[The Cleaner]

Ok say you're out on the trail and have made several miles with little or no snow.Then a big storm is forecast,you are carrying a small radio w/NOAA weather bands I hope,and you decide to get off the trail at the next gap.Here's what can happen.If it has already started snowing your cell phone won't get a signal.If you can call someone it's possible the road will be impassable due to snow and or ice.What now?You're at the gap but no one can get there.Unless you know the local area very well you won't know what services are which way.If the snow is bad no one will be out to pick you up.You are carrying extra food I hope.One thing about the weather here is that it can be in the 50's& sunny one day then turn cold&snow many inches to several feet a few days later.Weather trends in the winter are hard to predict and can change fast.Usually other hikers can keep you informed but you probably won't see too many.If it does'nt snow it may just rain,a very cold rain with temps well above freezing.I just packed out a trail register and people were complaining about the cold in MAY.Winter camping has it's own problems and requires one to carry more gear and know how to use it.Also there comes a time to get off a mountian and you must know when&where to go.At this early in the year many services just won't be up&running yet.You may want to call several of them just to see what's open in Jan.Cash&credit cards don't do you any good wet&cold at a road with little or no traffic.Prepare&plan then prepare to bail at any time if weather gets really bad....

[Tipi Walter]

I also like Tipi's idea of starting to sleep outside now -- fyi, I'm leaving tomorrow at 5 am to hike the GSMNP - might be a little chilly!

Have a good time on your trip and I hope you post a trip report here on Whiteblaze when you get back.

The backyard tent/tarp shelter is where we go between trips, whether to test out new gear or just to be in the wide open outdoors---more so when it turns cold. Personally, I think everyone should sleep outside every night or as much as possible, barring crying newborns or living in the concrete jungle. A bedroll can be thrown down nearly anywhere to get the all important bag nights---and to acclimate to the cold and to get very used to sleeping on a small foam or inflatable pad. Once sleeping out under the open sky gets in your blood, well, you'll find it very difficult (or boring or stifling or suffocating) to sleep indoors. Is this a good thing? It is if you're a backpacker.

[Papa D]

Agreed Tipi - I'm sleeping on my porch in a hammock with my laptop now - not sure that counts since I'm under a tin roof - sort of like my own trail shelter -- the Cleaner just made a good cautionary post but with all due respect, you get to the road, hook or crook, you know the weather is bad and you slog out to a town - yeah, it sucks and your feet get cold and you slip on the ice and so forth but you don't die --- I did this stuff for years without a cell phone too - it's nice but just not required -- you get to a gas station, warm up, borrow their phone, call the hostel number in the guidebook, wake them up, they come get your sorry cold wet butt, etc. been there, done that ....worst case scenario, you dry out in some truck stop bathroom and keep on going -- been there done that too ...

[Tipi Walter]

Ok say you're out on the trail and have made several miles with little or no snow.Then a big storm is forecast,you are carrying a small radio w/NOAA weather bands I hope,and you decide to get off the trail at the next gap.Here's what can happen.If it has already started snowing your cell phone won't get a signal.If you can call someone it's possible the road will be impassable due to snow and or ice.What now?You're at the gap but no one can get there.Unless you know the local area very well you won't know what services are which way.If the snow is bad no one will be out to pick you up.You are carrying extra food I hope.One thing about the weather here is that it can be in the 50's& sunny one day then turn cold&snow many inches to several feet a few days later.Weather trends in the winter are hard to predict and can change fast.Usually other hikers can keep you informed but you probably won't see too many.If it does'nt snow it may just rain,a very cold rain with temps well above freezing.I just packed out a trail register and people were complaining about the cold in MAY.Winter camping has it's own problems and requires one to carry more gear and know how to use it.Also there comes a time to get off a mountian and you must know when&where to go.At this early in the year many services just won't be up&running yet.You may want to call several of them just to see what's open in Jan.Cash&credit cards don't do you any good wet&cold at a road with little or no traffic.Prepare&plan then prepare to bail at any time if weather gets really bad....

In your scenario a person has a couple choices. Or several choices.

** I always carry an overabundance of food on my winter trips just so I can zero out a blizzard or winter storm in my tent. So, I'm prepared to spend up to a week in basecamp mode waiting for the storm to pass thru and the snow to melt. What does this mean in reality? Carrying more food weight. Sometimes a lot more food weight. But heck, it's why we go out, right? To winter camp and hike?? And not to bail to the closest town?

** When conditions turn south and a person wants or needs to bail, the best option is to get to the closest snowy road and start hiking and/or hitching. Roads are much easier to walk in snow, even in deep snow (2+ feet) as compared to the green tunnel trail. Plus, the big bonus is that when the snow falls there's always a hardy group of truck or jeep or SUV drivers who love exploring the mountains in their vehicles, and so rides are easy to catch. My best hitchhiking rides out of an area always occur during snowstorms. People just are plumb giddy. To prep for such an event, always carry a good map of the area you're in. And if there's absolutely no traffic, well, when it gets dark camp near the side of the road and start hiking again in the morning. In a couple days you'll be off the high ground and closer to houses and other people.

** Finally, there's a pitiful tendency for winter backpackers (and the 'fast and light' crowd) to carry woefully inadequate gear---as in insubstantial clothing, footwear, and shelters---along with too little food and fuel. Why? Two reasons: They've been brainwashed by the ultralight crowd, and two---they just don't want to carry the weight. Staying out for two weeks at a time without resupply during a tough winter storm will require around 30 pounds of just food and fuel (and we all like to eat around 2 lbs of food per day), and this doesn't include the beefier winter clothing system required for comfortable living at 10F or below on the high ridges the AT follows. Ergo:

** Most winter AT backpackers don't have warm enough bags or warm enough (overkill) parkas (or downpants). Why? Too expensive and too heavy.

[Papa D]

Question for Tipi (and I'm about asleep) - what does your 5 winter nights in Joyce Kilmer weigh (starting out) - not picking - just curious.

[Tipi Walter]

Question for Tipi (and I'm about asleep) - what does your 5 winter nights in Joyce Kilmer weigh (starting out) - not picking - just curious.

Probably too much. I'd be carrying my usual standard winter load but with a drastically lighter food supply---maybe ten pounds. Fuel will be minimal, too, for my white gas Simmerlite. There will be a couple books, some small 3 hour candles for in-tent hand warming, and the usual four season 8+ lb tent and the Mystery Ranch 8 lb pack. All told, around 40 lbs. Much much lighter than my 85 lb kit for 20 days. Food load is what kills me. (20 days=around 45 lbs of food---I like to eat).

[Slo-go'en]

o. Get a "Union suit", preferably a wool/synthetic blend. The nice thing about a union suit is there is no seam between top and bottom, which eliminates the annoying cold ring around the middle sperate tops and bottoms have. When I was winter caretaker at Gray Knob on Mt Adams, I didn't take my union suit off for 4 months, except to wash it a couple of times.

o. Always have a dry set of clothes. This often means putting on cold and wet stuff in the morning - which gets you moving quick enough. To keep your damp clothes from freezing, put them at the foot of your sleeping bag. Most of the time you'll want to keep the damp clothes in a waterproof stuff sack so the sleeping bag doesn't get wet, but if the humidity is real low, you can dry them out if not in a bag. Never leave wet or damp stuff out over night, it will freeze.

o. Get a good pair of insulated, waterproof boots. You can loose toes with trail runners out there in the winter and there is nothing worse then putting on a pair of boots which are frozen solid in the morning.

o. You need to have sturdy traction aids with you at all times. You'll never know when you'll need them. If it turns into a snowy winter, you'll probably need to have snowshoes with you most of the time too. Post holeing is not fun and burns way too much enegry.

o. Have a good breathable wind shell, top and bottom. Nothing less then Gortex cuts it in the winter.

o. Knee high gaiters, heavy duty with velcro "zipper".

o. Have at least 3 pairs of heavy wool socks. A pair of fleece socks are nice to sleep in.

o. Warm hat and gloves, of course. Wool mittens, fleece gloves and fingerless gloves. Light hat for during the day hiking, heavy hat for night.

o. Cross country ski poles or hiking poles with regular baskets replaced with snow baskets.

o. Really good headlamp and a back up. Your going to be in the dark a lot and hiking in it too. A couple of candles are nice to have too, but don't use them in a tent!

o. Get a white gas stove. Your going to be either melting snow or heating water from near freezing and that takes a lot of BTU's.

o. Get a couple of closed cell foam pads to sleep on. Don't use an air mattress until it stays consistantly above freezing.

Helpful tips:

o. First thing you do when you get up in the morning: Stuff your sleeping bag. You want to push all the warm, moist air out of it before it has a chance to cool down and freeze. Also roll up your sleeping pads while they are still flexable and not frozen to the bottom of your tent. If your tenting, pack the tent right away too, or it could freeze to the ground or snow too.

o. Never, ever hike in your "camp" clothes. No matter what the tempation to start out in your nice warm, dry clothes in the morning - don't do it. It's the only set of dry stuff you have and you MUST keep it that way.

o. Don't over dress while hiking. Your going to warm right up and start sweating pretty soon and you want to keep that to a minimum. Of course, you'll need a warm jacket to put on when you stop to rest for more than a few minutes.

o. Have an insulated sitting pad. You need something to keep your butt warm when sitting. A piece of closed cell foam does the trick, though some use mouse pads.

o. You might need something to chip through ice to get to water.

o. A small folding saw might be nice. Your going to want a camp fire a lot of times and that will make getting wood a lot easier. Having a 3-4 foot strap to buddle wood together with makes it a lot easier to drag a bunch back to camp.

o. Always have at least two sources of making fire. You might loose one or one goes empty with no warning.

Okay, that's the tip of the iceburg as it were. About all I can think of off the top of my head. There is a whole lot to be said about the kind of food to eat (lots of it mostly) and other pieces of clothes to have, how to find your way when every direction looks the same, etc., etc., which is too much to discuss here.

[Papa D]

lighter than I thought for you Tipi - I've seen you with at least 70 pounds - ugg. My winter backpacking trips do add an extra day of food and some bomb-proof clothes - still keep it under 40 though ...... wow, Slo-go-'en - what a post - good night yall - got to get up and hike!!!!

[Slo-go'en]

Once sleeping out under the open sky gets in your blood, well, you'll find it very difficult (or boring or stifling or suffocating) to sleep indoors. Is this a good thing? It is if you're a backpacker.

I don't know. I'm getting pretty fond of my electric blanket in my old age. But then, I keep the bedroom closed off and unheated, so it runs between the mid 50's to mid 40's most of the winter in there.

[Kookork]

um - thanks Kookork, I guess - FYI, I hiked the Long Trail alongside Bamboo Bob in 2010 and we shared a couple of hundred miles of trail - he's a pretty responsible guy - I know he's done an AT Thru, and LT thru, and a JMT thru (I think) --- anyway, I don't think his post advocated being "unsafe" or less than "cautions" -- we all know that the OP is a little out of their comfort level here (certainly the OP does too) -- I think his post makes sense - people bail off of the trail all the time - the OP isn't (probably) going to die on a winter attempt - they might hike hotel to hotel and pretty much make the same time they would by starting a month or two later but there is nothing irresponsible about Bob's post in my opinion. FYI - last time I saw Bamboo Bob, I was leaving a shelter in VT in a rainstorm at 5 PM for a little 10 mile evening hike - I KNOW he thought I was nuts (and I am).

Hopefully it is just my understanding about Bamboo Bob's post that is very encourging. if that is the case Here I say I am sorry Bamboo Bob for fast judgement of you.

The differene is between a hiker who bails out soon and never goes back to a trail and a successful story.I found younger hikers almost always overstimate their willpower. leaving too many things to sheer power of will seems a routine in recent weeks here. We all have done our crazy things when we were younger and some of them are very memorable to remember but I personally never leave too many thing to chance or luck or my willpower.

Anyway, Sorry Bob and thank you Papa D

[Tipi Walter]

o. Get a "Union suit", preferably a wool/synthetic blend. The nice thing about a union suit is there is no seam between top and bottom, which eliminates the annoying cold ring around the middle sperate tops and bottoms have. When I was winter caretaker at Gray Knob on Mt Adams, I didn't take my union suit off for 4 months, except to wash it a couple of times.

You're bringing back memories of living out thru the 1980's in the mountains of NC. I too lived out of my red union suit, along with a crotch-to-neck zippered insulated "suit" used by water department and road workers. That baby was warm. Here are some negatories: Both were a real hassle to use for toilet duty when squatting over a cathole in the middle of a cold snap. But the biggest negatory was in Sweat Management. There's nothing much worse than humping up a mountain in these things and breaking a sweat and having to unzip and remove PART of the thing and let it dangle or get tied around the waist. I'm breaking a sweat just thinking about it.

o. Always have a dry set of clothes. This often means putting on cold and wet stuff in the morning - which gets you moving quick enough. To keep your damp clothes from freezing, put them at the foot of your sleeping bag. Most of the time you'll want to keep the damp clothes in a waterproof stuff sack so the sleeping bag doesn't get wet, but if the humidity is real low, you can dry them out if not in a bag. Never leave wet or damp stuff out over night, it will freeze.

Totally agree with this one: always have a dry set of clothes. This is a lesson newbs learn the hard way, along with deep sixing their blue jeans. In a winter kit, there are only a few clothing items which should get wet---the boots and socks, the t-shirt or baselayer, the rain jacket and rain pants, a pair of gloves---and that's it. If it's raining a cold rain it's too warm to backpack up a mountain with much more than a t-shirt under a good rain jacket, and shorts or rain pants. If it's real cold you can wear more layers under your rain jacket and only have to worry about sweat.

o. Get a good pair of insulated, waterproof boots. You can loose toes with trail runners out there in the winter and there is nothing worse then putting on a pair of boots which are frozen solid in the morning.

Even a good pair of leather boots can get soaked and frozen in the winter, just remember to unlace them the night before so you can get your feet in. Forget trail runners for winter backpacking---they offer little support, little lug traction, and little insulation.

o. You need to have sturdy traction aids with you at all times. You'll never know when you'll need them. If it turns into a snowy winter, you'll probably need to have snowshoes with you most of the time too. Post holeing is not fun and burns way too much enegry.

On the AT in the Southern Apps, a person may or may not need crampons or snowshoes. Up north, probably. Down here we get by with long bouts of postholing and "bung abseils", whereby we scoot down a frozen trail on our butts.

o. Have a good breathable wind shell, top and bottom. Nothing less then Gortex cuts it in the winter.

Agree big time on this one, even to the point of recommending Arcteryx gtx rain gear.

o. Knee high gaiters, heavy duty with velcro "zipper".

I never use gaiters, but then I end up with wet and frozen boots and snow all thru my socks. Used to it by now.

o. Have at least 3 pairs of heavy wool socks. A pair of fleece socks are nice to sleep in.

Even on my long winter trips I only carry two pairs of socks, Smartwool Mountaineers, the thickest they make. One pair is strictly for hiking and one pair is ALWAYS kept dry and is for sleeping only.

o. Warm hat and gloves, of course. Wool mittens, fleece gloves and fingerless gloves. Light hat for during the day hiking, heavy hat for night.

Very important items. Always carry two pairs of gloves as one pair WILL get wet and the other must stay dry, like with the socks. I also recommend taking a merino or capilene balaclava along with a beefy "tuque".

o. Cross country ski poles or hiking poles with regular baskets replaced with snow baskets.

Hiking poles are very handy when postholing or when crossing frozen creeks.

o. Really good headlamp and a back up. Your going to be in the dark a lot and hiking in it too. A couple of candles are nice to have too, but don't use them in a tent!

Extra batts for the headlamp and also a backup flashlight---minimal. Some cellphones even have flashlights on them, too. When it's real cold and I'm sitting in my tent for 10 or 12 hours, I like to have a small 3 hour open flame candle nearby to warm my fingers. Inside the tent. You just have to be careful with the thing.

o. Get a white gas stove. Your going to be either melting snow or heating water from near freezing and that takes a lot of BTU's.

I love my MSR Simmerlite. It becomes my best friend on long winter trips.

o. Get a couple of closed cell foam pads to sleep on. Don't use an air mattress until it stays consistantly above freezing.

All I ever use are inflatable air pads, whether it's the NeoAir All Season at 5R or the warm and comfy Exped Downmat pad at 8R. Love it. But then, I'm fanatical about keeping my pads hole-free---and always carry a pad repair kit.

Helpful tips:

o. First thing you do when you get up in the morning: Stuff your sleeping bag. You want to push all the warm, moist air out of it before it has a chance to cool down and freeze. Also roll up your sleeping pads while they are still flexable and not frozen to the bottom of your tent. If your tenting, pack the tent right away too, or it could freeze to the ground or snow too.

o. Never, ever hike in your "camp" clothes. No matter what the tempation to start out in your nice warm, dry clothes in the morning - don't do it. It's the only set of dry stuff you have and you MUST keep it that way.

This should be read as gospel. Dry clothing is survival. Wet clothing is bail.

o. Don't over dress while hiking. Your going to warm right up and start sweating pretty soon and you want to keep that to a minimum. Of course, you'll need a warm jacket to put on when you stop to rest for more than a few minutes.

This is called Sweat Management. It's a discipline most backpackers don't have or want to have. They must learn it the hard way.

o. Have an insulated sitting pad. You need something to keep your butt warm when sitting. A piece of closed cell foam does the trick, though some use mouse pads.

I use my Crocs camp shoes, unhooked from my pack and thrown down to sit on during reststops.

o. You might need something to chip through ice to get to water.

o. A small folding saw might be nice. Your going to want a camp fire a lot of times and that will make getting wood a lot easier. Having a 3-4 foot strap to buddle wood together with makes it a lot easier to drag a bunch back to camp.

I'm not a fan of campfires in the winter---too much work and I'm lazy. Anyway, it's always warmer inside my tent on my pad wrapped in my bag than it is sitting around a fire.

o. Always have at least two sources of making fire. You might loose one or one goes empty with no warning.

Sounds simple, right? But oh so true. I always carry two Bics, and I always put one in a protective container so the depress button doesn't get turned on accidentlly. Weird, but once I had a Bic in my ditty bag and something pushed the button down and it lost all of its fuel. Always have a backup.

Okay, that's the tip of the iceburg as it were. About all I can think of off the top of my head. There is a whole lot to be said about the kind of food to eat (lots of it mostly) and other pieces of clothes to have, how to find your way when every direction looks the same, etc., etc., which is too much to discuss here.



There it is, my take on an excellent post.

[Jim Adams]

Best advice on here is from Tipi Walter...start sleeping outside now...if you stay warm and don't quickly burn out on the cold then you will be fine on the hike. Yes it will be cold, yes you will probably go slower and spend a few more nights in town, yes it will be less crowded and probably lonelier...but you may like all of that. The main thing is to have a little extra food, cash and know that if the ***** hits the fan, set up your tent, put on dry clothing and get into your sleeping bag...shelter, warmth and food are what will keep you alive and common sense will tell you when to walk and not walk...it may be difficult but rely on that common sense and you should stay alive w/o problems.
BTW, it won't be crowded so if you do get a stretch of cold or bad weather, I would set up the tent in a shelter and make that your base camp...reason?....usually water near by, lower snow loads on your tent and easier to find if you do indeed need rescued.
I rarely backpack any more if the temps are above freezing...to me it is the best time to go. Have fun but be safe.

geek

[10-K]

Winter hiking is great until a big snowfall and then things can get very interesting, very fast. Mountain Squids point about losing the trail in the snow is a big deal.

Yes, you might eventually find it but.... you use up a lot of energy looking for it, especially if you're postholing around on the side of a mountain because postholing up a steep hill with a full winter pack can be a herculean effort - and if it was a waste of time because you didn't find the trail I can almost guarantee you that you'll feel like sitting down and crying. :)

And, it's not always easy to backtrack because as you look for the trail you're making tracks in the snow and before long you won't recognize which tracks are the ones you can follow back to
where you last knew for sure where the trail was.

Also, there are lots of mountain tops that are basically bare rock where blazes are painted onto the actual top of the mountain (cairns help up north). When there's 1-2' of snow covering up the blazes - now what?

Do not underestimate just this one thing.

[10-K]

BTW, one thing I started doing last year when I got tired of bumbling around in the snow looking for the trail was I carabined a roll of surveyor's flagging tape to my hipbelt and when I'd lose the trail I'd tie a small piece to a tree marking the last known spot I was 100% sure I was on the trail.

It made it a lot easier to a grid search looking for the trail because I could always return exactly to my starting point.

Even better though is a GPS with the AT on it. I've got the entire AT and connecting trails for GA/NC/TN loaded on my Garmin courtesy of the free "My Trails" map from gpsfiledepot. As long as the GPS works is pretty near impossible to get lost.

[Nutbrown]

There are a lot of people telling you to get experience first. I'm not sure what that means. You are going to get experience...when you get on the trail in Ga. There are plenty of places to get off if there is trouble. I don't see the difference between a week long winter section hike for experience, or the first week of your attempted thru. You are doing the right thing by planning. Kudos. Listen to Tipi and the like, and have a good treck. Responsibility and planning will make the difference. Experience will make you better even after a few days.

[10-K]

There are a lot of people telling you to get experience first. I'm not sure what that means. You are going to get experience...when you get on the trail in Ga. There are plenty of places to get off if there is trouble. I don't see the difference between a week long winter section hike for experience, or the first week of your attempted thru. You are doing the right thing by planning. Kudos. Listen to Tipi and the like, and have a good treck. Responsibility and planning will make the difference. Experience will make you better even after a few days.

I kinda take issue with the "there are plenty of places to get off" and "the AT isn't the wilderness".

Both of those statements are 100% accurate, but they're more accurate in good weather.

You can definitely get jammed up in foul winter weather and be far enough away from a bail out point for it to matter.

You would have to be a pretty cool cucumber to get lost looking for the trail and just stop, pitch your tent and hole up for a few days. Your mind (or at least *my* mind) would start working on me after a bit.

It's one thing to be sitting here in my Lazy-Boy in a thermostatically controlled 72* temp theorizing about winter hiking. It's a whole nother ballgame to be out in 10* temps with the wind blowing so hard you can't see squat and you're wondering where in the hell the trail is.

[FatMan]

I honestly believe this young women should not take on this journey. Although the information being provided for the most part is excellent for a winter hike, encouragement is not responsible IMO.

I've been backpacking, canoeing, spelunking since I was a kid. And I have a 25 year old daughter who has only limited backpacking experience (for the most part she always had other things to do when Dad wanted her to come along).

If she came to me wanting to hike the AT and asking advice I would be ecstatic. I would help her in anyway I could. But if she came to me with the idea of a solo January start I would strongly advise against it. She is an athlete, was captain of her College Swim Team and in excellent shape. She now competes in Triathlons. It still doesn't matter. She does not have the experience to succeed in a solo winter hike. And my daughter is 25 and at 25 most would agree she has a better set of life skills than she would have had at age 20 like the OP.

Might I feel different if it was my 22 year old son who has some decent experience on the trail? Sure. First he has some experience and secondly, and I suppose this will be construed by many to be sexist, but he is a male. He does not have to deal with the woman issues that are inherent to the trail. A young female hiking alone where she does not have the protections of a group is simply asking for trouble IMO.

[Tipi Walter]

Winter hiking is great until a big snowfall and then things can get very interesting, very fast. Mountain Squids point about losing the trail in the snow is a big deal.

Yes, you might eventually find it but.... you use up a lot of energy looking for it, especially if you're postholing around on the side of a mountain because postholing up a steep hill with a full winter pack can be a herculean effort - and if it was a waste of time because you didn't find the trail I can almost guarantee you that you'll feel like sitting down and crying. :)

And, it's not always easy to backtrack because as you look for the trail you're making tracks in the snow and before long you won't recognize which tracks are the ones you can follow back to
where you last knew for sure where the trail was.


You're right about losing the trail, and you're very right about postholing up a steep hill can be a herculean effort. Although "losing the trail" is a somewhat different subject---a person can lose a trail or "get lost" in the other three seasons too, and then have to backtrack to get on course---in the winter on the AT along high ridgetops it's often easy to lose the trail due to the deep snow. To forge on ahead is a common newb blunder, whereas a more experienced backpacker would either set up camp by the nearest white blaze or eyeball the ridgeline and scoot over to where he or she judges the trail to be.

In these conditions---deep snow and no trail on a ridgeline, it's possible to dig out a tentsite and sit put for 5 or 7 days until the snow melts enough to find the path. This is my standard procedure. What's the dang hurry, anyway? And you're not really lost if you have the last white blaze in sight. Plus, after camp is set up you can do ranging recon dayhikes in ever-widening circles to try and locate the trail.


BTW, one thing I started doing last year when I got tired of bumbling around in the snow looking for the trail was I carabined a roll of surveyor's flagging tape to my hipbelt and when I'd lose the trail I'd tie a small piece to a tree marking the last known spot I was 100% sure I was on the trail.

It made it a lot easier to a grid search looking for the trail because I could always return exactly to my starting point.


This is good advice and I always carry survey ribbon whenever I go backpacking into a new place, summer or winter. Many trails often peter out and so the ribbon is tied just for insurance.


I honestly believe this young women should not take on this journey. Although the information being provided for the most part is excellent for a winter hike, encouragement is not responsible IMO.

A young female hiking alone where she does not have the protections of a group is simply asking for trouble IMO.

A lot of hot button topics here. Winter backpackers chime in and share information amongst themselves and like to bounce ideas off of other experienced winter hikers. If Michelle learns something in the process then this forum works. If it paints a picture of tiptoeing thru the tulips with no concerns then I would tend to agree with you. But there are a lot of warnings here expressed, and she has the good opportunity to read and listen and even copy and print this thread and study it at her leisure. Hopefully inside a cold weather tent set up in her backyard.:sun

And really, the reality of a winter thruhike is less death-defying adventure and more simple bail outs and motel stays. Just read thru the January attempts on Trail Journals and watch what happens---most if not all of them start out with good intentions and then get hit by the first snowstorm and bail out to the closest town. No problem. And most of them are newbs too who want to pull a winter thruhike. Beyond this, not all January days on the trail are at 10F with two feet of snow---often the temps are moderate or even 50F or 60F and there is no snow.

Finally, your last comment will get some heated responses. "Simply asking for trouble" is code words for living in fear, the great American pastime. A young female driving on the Interstate while texting is REALLY asking for trouble, to put it in perspective. So, in your opinion, a young female (even an old female?) should never do anything alone out in the woods?? Post this in the Female Hiking Forum and I'd like to see the response.

[Tipi Walter]

Wow---somebody already did! See:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?78283-The-prejudice-we-face.

[Slo-go'en]

There are a lot of people telling you to get experience first. I'm not sure what that means. You are going to get experience...when you get on the trail in Ga.

You gain experiance by doing short trips - overnight or weekends to places which are easy to get in and out of and in weather which isn't too bad. You need to learn how to use your gear, set up the tent in the cold and figure out a routine. Once you get the basics down, the gear worked out and knowlage of how to use it effectively, then you can start going farther and in more extrem weather.

Sure you can learn this on the trail, but it's a lot better to already have at least some experiance before hand. This is true for starting a thru-hike at any time of year. My informal study of thru-hikers over the years shows that those who have at least some prior backpacking and camping experinace last much longer on the trail than those who don't. This could be just the fact that those who have done at least a little hiking/camping before have a better idea of what thier getting into.

[10-K]

You gain experiance by doing short trips - overnight or weekends to places which are easy to get in and out of and in weather which isn't too bad. You need to learn how to use your gear, set up the tent in the cold and figure out a routine. Once you get the basics down, the gear worked out and knowlage of how to use it effectively, then you can start going farther and in more extrem weather.

Sure you can learn this on the trail, but it's a lot better to already have at least some experiance before hand. This is true for starting a thru-hike at any time of year. My informal study of thru-hikers over the years shows that those who have at least some prior backpacking and camping experinace last much longer on the trail than those who don't. This could be just the fact that those who have done at least a little hiking/camping before have a better idea of what thier getting into.

It's the same theory as "Don't worry about getting in shape, you'll get in shape on the trail."

True enough, but it's just downright silly not to try to be in as good a shape as possible before you start.

[Buffalo Skipper]

I glanced through all the posts, but did not see anyone else reference this. It is a blog for Flyin' Brian, who in 2001 hiked the AT, PCT and CDT, all from January thru mid October (Calendar Triple Crown). He started up the approach trail on Springer on December 31, 2000, and began his hike on January 1.

http://royrobinson.homestead.com/Triple_Crown.html

That was 10 years ago. I believe his early/winter pack weight was about 25 lbs, including snowshoes, which he used only a few times in the south (Smokies) and again when up north, later in the winter. Remember, though, that he was all about speed, making easily 20+ miles most days, even in winter. Read this and you will at the very least get a sense of what is involved. He talks more of the experience and focuses less on gear.

FWIW, he bailed on the AT at the Bennington, VT in late March, because the snow was so deep that he was walking in the tree branches and the blazes were buried in the snow. Of course after completing the PCT and CDT, he made it back to Vermont in September and finished that season. Quite a story, to be honest.

Edit: It is my opinion, that he succeeded because he was moving so fast that by the end of January, he was already into centeral Virginia, where the elevations were lower and there was less snow than in the high points of TN/NC. Had he gone slower, he could easily have gotten bogged down in the high areas had he waited until the end of January, beginning of February, when these areas usually receive their heaviest snows of the season.

[Tipi Walter]

I glanced through all the posts, but did not see anyone else reference this. It is a blog for Flyin' Brian, who in 2001 hiked the AT, PCT and CDT, all from January thru mid October (Calendar Triple Crown). He started up the approach trail on Springer on December 31, 2000, and began his hike on January 1.

http://royrobinson.homestead.com/Triple_Crown.html

That was 10 years ago. I believe his early/winter pack weight was about 25 lbs, including snowshoes, which he used only a few times in the south (Smokies) and again when up north, later in the winter. Remember, though, that he was all about speed, making easily 20+ miles most days, even in winter. Read this and you will at the very least get a sense of what is involved. He talks more of the experience and focuses less on gear.

FWIW, he bailed on the AT at the Bennington, VT in late March, because the snow was so deep that he was walking in the tree branches and the blazes were buried in the snow. Of course after completing the PCT and CDT, he made it back to Vermont in September and finished that season. Quite a story, to be honest.

Edit: It is my opinion, that he succeeded because he was moving so fast that by the end of January, he was already into centeral Virginia, where the elevations were lower and there was less snow than in the high points of TN/NC. Had he gone slower, he could easily have gotten bogged down in the high areas had he waited until the end of January, beginning of February, when these areas usually receive their heaviest snows of the season.

Thanks for reminding me of this link. I always think of Flyin' Brian when people want to know what's it like to backpack the AT in the winter. I remember a picture he took of the trail blocked by "snowdowns"---when the Green Tunnel is collapsed on itself with leaning heath and evergreens and other brush loaded with heavy snow. Postholing is bad enough, now throw in a snowscape obstacle course where miles of backpacking have to be done on your belly and chest, crawling under snowdowns. There's nothing much worse, especially with a 50 lb pack. Here is where snowshoes would be useless.

[WingedMonkey]

o. Get a "Union suit", preferably a wool/synthetic blend. The nice thing about a union suit is there is no seam between top and bottom, which eliminates the annoying cold ring around the middle sperate tops and bottoms have. When I was winter caretaker at Gray Knob on Mt Adams, I didn't take my union suit off for 4 months, except to wash it a couple of times. My upgrade on union suit to this 10 oz poly-fleese job fits the ticket for me. The front zips all the way down for access and heat control, the backside has a required flap that allows "dropping butt" and the sleeveless feature allows me to adjust comfort with other layers. It's not for mini weight hikers at 12.5 oz, but they shouldn't be out in the cold anyway.


Of course I have to get out of Florida in the winter once in a while to test it.
:sun
http://image.bargainoutfitters.com/dimage/54760_ts.JPG?cell=320,320&cvt=jpeg

[Tipi Walter]

My upgrade on union suit to this 10 oz poly-fleese job fits the ticket for me. The front zips all the way down for access and heat control, the backside has a required flap that allows "dropping butt" and the sleeveless feature allows me to adjust comfort with other layers. It's not for mini weight hikers at 12.5 oz, but they shouldn't be out in the cold anyway.


Of course I have to get out of Florida in the winter once in a while to test it.
:sun
http://image.bargainoutfitters.com/dimage/54760_ts.JPG?cell=320,320&cvt=jpeg

Wonderful for basecamping, too hot for backpacking. Or at least it's impossible to remove the long john bottoms and keep on the top, etc.

[Snowleopard]

It'll be an adventure.
Slogo'en and TipiWalter have lots of experience and you should pay close attention to what they say. Read some of TipiWalter's winter trip reports. What he does is tougher because he's out for 2 weeks at a time and you can get to town every 4 or 5 days. When in doubt, bail out!
Your chances are improved greatly if you go to school someplace cold, or where you can get to cold snowy places on the weekends. If you don't get some experience first, I'd say take a couple of weeks in a cold climate practicing before you start the AT. 0F is very different from 32F, and you need to know how to operate in both.
Getting cold weather experience before you start is very important. If you go to school in the north, as Tipiwalter says, sleep outside. Do some backyard camping trips, anyplace where you can easily bail out to a house or car if things aren't working. You need to learn how to manage your tent, stove, and clothing in the cold.
You need to learn thermal management -- how to manage your layers so you don't overheat while you're hiking. This is the most important single thing that you can't learn by reading. Most beginning xc skiers and winter hikers wear too much warm clothes while moving; this is not safe because you get your clothes wet from sweat then get cold from the wet clothes.
Carry a really warm hat and a slightly warm hat. Carry really warm wool mittens and somewhat warm wool mittens/gloves. Carry a goretex shell mitten to wear over your mittens, like this: http://www.rei.com/product/787289/rei-taped-mittens. Wear thin liner gloves under your mittens so you don't freeze your fingers for doing stuff you can't manage with mittens (but set up as much of your clothing and gear so that you can manage with mittens on). I like Dachstein boiled wool mittens for a backup; they're very warm, pretty windproof, they work OK even without an overmitt, but too warm for hiking at 30F. Carry more than one warm hat.
Read this article on hypothermia. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?8209-Hypothermia&p=96956#post96956.
STUDY the old fhart's post as if your life depends on it, because it does!
.http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?8209-Hypothermia&p=96956&viewfull=1#post96956.

Here are a couple of good links for winter camping. They're aimed at hiking in the north in winter (Adirondacks, etc.), but have a lot of good info; just adjust it a bit for the somewhat warmer conditions in the south.
http://www.winterschool.org/WMS%20Student%20Handbook.pdf.
http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/winter/wintcamp.shtml.
The winter school is a course run by people from the AMC and ADK and would be a good intro to winter camping.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Something I forgot to add about Brian. His greatest strength is his mental toughness. When he sets his mind to a task in bad circumstances (cold, wet, snow, injury or just whatever), he has the mental fortitude to work through it in both the short and long term. He did most of his hike alone (for 10 months). For the first 3 months, he slept in a shelter with another hiker on on a handful of occasions, and he never really hiked with anyone who could keep up with him.

The lone mental component is not to be underestimated. Willpower is a necessity in winter hiking.

This is what he faced in Vermont at the end of March:

14319


14320

[Tipi Walter]

Oh yes, this is the picture I remember:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14320&d=1320431444

There's a trail in there, boys and girls.

[Marta]

My feeling is that the bottom few miles of the AT are one of the safest places to experiment with winter backpacking. There are quite a few shelters and campsites. There are lots of road crossings. The mountains aren't very high. Section hikers can be numerous, especially on weekends. There's cell service in a lot of places. A likely outcome is that the OP would have an epic adventure just going from Springer to Neels Gap, with lots of misadventures and discomfort, but probably nothing seriously bad. Having Pinpointed some of the gaps in her knowledge and experience, she will re-gear at Mountain Crossings, and struggle on for a another few days, or even a week, before calling it quits. This is the tale of most January starters. Then she will either decide to reorganize and start again later on, or give up on the AT dreams for now, and go on to something else.

[Marta]

What I'm trying to say is that one needs to decide what one's goals are. If the goal is to have an adventure, starting in January is not a bad plan. If the goal is to hike the whole AT, a later start is much more sensible. For kibutzers to predict almost-certain death from exposure or attacks by maniacs is, in my opinion, melodramatic in the extreme.

[Cookerhiker]

I wonder if the OP has thought through the back end. Starting January 1 probably means shorter days & mileage because of darkness, deep snow, more frequent and longer stops etc. but let's say she perseveres and makes it to NH by mid-May. The Whites can still be wintery & icy - back to winter! And the reward for hiking Maine in late May through late June is bugs e.g. black flies, mud, higher water levels, cold fords. Certainly if she's toughed it out at the South's high elevations in January-February, she can handle it but does she want to?

[Doc Mike]

Sometimes the lessons we learn the best are the ones most painful to learn. Go for it have a great learning experience.

[q-tip]

Practice, Practice, Practice. Winter BP does have its own set of skills. If you go out without some bascic skills, you can get in a lot of trouble.

[flemdawg1]

Actually, it doesn't even take alot of snow to lose the trail. I was attempting hiking from Dickie Gap to Damascus last week. Friday was wet and cold going over Mt Rogers and after a mere miserable 6 miles, my friend and I called it a day at the thomas Knob shelter. Later that day the rain turned to freezing fog then snow. We awoken Saturday to about 2 inches on the ground and more still coming down. We eat, pack up and hike on south. When we arrive at Elk Garden the snow, sleet and wind picked up significantly. I was walking in pure whiteout conditions and completely unable to see the trail around me. Finally a couple with a dog walked up behind me and the dog led us down to the gap/parking lot. Without knowing when/if the storm will finally let up and with more open areas ahead, we decided to hitch into town. I've done 3 previous winter month hikes but had never had one with weather this extreme. When they say the mountains are wild, they're not just talking about the lack of civiliztion nearby.

My advice, wait till Spring.

[Buffalo Skipper]

I hope my references to Flyin' Brian's experience were not misconstrued. My intent was to point the OP to some useful information, not to discourage the attempt. Brian did this 11 years ago with a (roughly) 25 lb load. This is doable, it just takes some knowledge of what you are getting into, the right gear and preperation. The more experience getting ready the better. But I don't think Brian had too much experience with this. He often mentions his fear of the conditions, and then how he was able to get through it.

Good Luck! (intended sincerely, not sarcastically)

[Snowleopard]

If you start in mid to late Feb. you'll still get some winter, but less of it.
Here's a couple links from people that went through the smokies in March 2010 and were basically the first ones to make it through. It was a high snow year and kind of tough, but doable for the prepared:
.http://www.benbenvieblog.com (http://www.benbenvieblog.com). Photo blog by a professional photographer.
.http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=b162fabd955d99604cf34a94339738 22&entry_id=13143.
Brianle's trail journal; he's on WB with screen name Brianle or Gadget. He had previously done the PCT (Pacific Crest Trail) and had lots of experience.

Still, where we've been walking isn't just something "not for the faint of heart", it's also not for those without some snow experience and the proper and sufficient gear and clothing.
His whole trailjournal is interesting.

I'd say worry about the north when and if you get there. If you're fast and get there too soon, Vermont, NH and Maine may be almost impossible.

[Tipi Walter]

Actually, it doesn't even take alot of snow to lose the trail. I was attempting hiking from Dickie Gap to Damascus last week. Friday was wet and cold going over Mt Rogers and after a mere miserable 6 miles, my friend and I called it a day at the thomas Knob shelter. Later that day the rain turned to freezing fog then snow. We awoken Saturday to about 2 inches on the ground and more still coming down. We eat, pack up and hike on south. When we arrive at Elk Garden the snow, sleet and wind picked up significantly. I was walking in pure whiteout conditions and completely unable to see the trail around me. Finally a couple with a dog walked up behind me and the dog led us down to the gap/parking lot. Without knowing when/if the storm will finally let up and with more open areas ahead, we decided to hitch into town. I've done 3 previous winter month hikes but had never had one with weather this extreme. When they say the mountains are wild, they're not just talking about the lack of civiliztion nearby.

My advice, wait till Spring.

This is a fine example of the stuff winter backpackers seek out---whiteout conditions, a high meadow pass (Elk Garden), and the opportunity to set up in the meadow and hunker down for a couple days. The fact is, a Southern Appalachian winter storm WILL let up eventually, though it may take 4 to 7 days. What's wrong with getting the shelter squared away (I mean a tent) and going to basecamp mode for a while?

Which brings me to another important point: Winter AT backpackers must be prepared to alter their schedules, sometimes drastically. Such changes often causes them to quit the trip and bail as the 2,000 mile monster eggs them on and on in impossible conditions. Forget the beast and forget the schedule and just be glad to be out during a fine snowstorm. What if mvt stops for a day or two? So what? So what if you can only do two miles a day in deep snow or severe cold? It's called Winter Backpacking. The big old 15 to 20 mile days you've scheduled beforehand mean little when Miss Nature decides to open up a can of winter whop lash and wallops you with a high ridge winter storm. You'll be lucky to pull four miles a day. Which is totally all right.

[Tipi Walter]

If you start in mid to late Feb. you'll still get some winter, but less of it.
Here's a couple links from people that went through the smokies in March 2010 and were basically the first ones to make it through. It was a high snow year and kind of tough, but doable for the prepared:
.http://www.benbenvieblog.com (http://www.benbenvieblog.com). Photo blog by a professional photographer.
.http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=b162fabd955d99604cf34a94339738 22&entry_id=13143.
Brianle's trail journal; he's on WB with screen name Brianle or Gadget. He had previously done the PCT (Pacific Crest Trail) and had lots of experience.

His whole trailjournal is interesting.

I'd say worry about the north when and if you get there. If you're fast and get there too soon, Vermont, NH and Maine may be almost impossible.

Thanks for the postholer link. Now I've got more to read on my next winter trip!

[Buffalo Skipper]

.http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=b162fabd955d99604cf34a94339738 22&entry_id=13143.
Brianle's trail journal; he's on WB with screen name Brianle or Gadget. He had previously done the PCT (Pacific Crest Trail) and had lots of experience.
His whole trailjournal is interesting.


Brian (Gadget) is a week away from completing his SOBO CDT, finishing his Triple Crown! It has been fun to read on him every day the past two years.

[michelle_wingerter]

Thank you all for your extremely helpful responses. I don't want to be an arrogant idiot here. I've looked at a lot of the journals of people who have tried January starts, and yeah...it's not encouraging.

The two things that probably worry me most are the difficulty of seeing blazes in snow and the fact that it would be serious winter in the mountains when I got there. I don't have experience navigating in the woods and I don't have the time right now to train rigorously so that I could carry all the gear/food that is really necessary for winter backpacking.

I want to say that I would be able to deal with persistent cold and loneliness...but I also recognize that it's a very different thing for me to sit in a warm room and type that than it is to actually do it.

Here's the thing: I graduate from college in December and I hopefully start grad school in August. In between I'm free to do whatever I want. I love the outdoors and I love challenges. The harder the better. I would love to hike the AT. That being said, I want to hike the whole AT, not the first 30 miles. If the majority here genuinely think I would not make it starting in January, is there a different trail I could start in January that might be more doable?

[Cookerhiker]

I wish you the best in whatever option you choose. It sounds like you're approaching this pretty level-headed and are under no illusions regarding the challenges.


.... That being said, I want to hike the whole AT, not the first 30 miles. If the majority here genuinely think I would not make it starting in January, is there a different trail I could start in January that might be more doable?

OK I'll throw out this idea: how about an AT flipflop starting January in Duncannon, hiking south to Springer, then flipping back and hiking north to Katahdin?

It may seem counterintuitive to start further north in the winter. But 2 things to keep in mind: (1) the elevations are much lower in the mid-Atlantic; you wouldn't hit 3,000' until Shenandoah NP so you'd likely have less inches of snow to deal with (2) in the event of too much snow or freezing rain, Duncannon to Front Royal offers sufficient bail-out points and more likelihood of cell phone service. And yet, you'll still gain the winter hiking/camping experience that you're craving in what I believe is a less risky locale. There are enough shelters along this route to hole up in if the weather's really bad. You won't find a lot of people on the Trail - just weekend day and section hikers - but you wouldn't find that many in GA/NC either.

Duncannon to Front Royal is about 180 miles during which you'll cross a road for bailout at least once per day. After crossing Rt. 522 outside Front Royal. you're in Shenandoah NP where the facilities are shut down during the winter. Skyline Drive is only guaranteed open from Thornton Gap to Big Meadows so Shenandoah is a bit riskier. But the trail sticks to the ridge and is fairly visible even in deep snow (I've winter hiked there) plus the Park Service does patrols on Skyline Drive. Once finishing the 100 miles of SNP, you walk parallel to the Blue Ridge Parkway 134 miles - again, not risk free but not in the middle of nowhere either. Resupplying will be more of a challenge here and you'll hit 4,000' for the first time but you're never far from the Parkway. After descending the ridge and crossing I-81, you're in a more remote area on to Pearisburg and eventually Atkins. Despite its remoteness, even this stretch has bailout points although hitches will be longer to reach civilization. Resupply is also an issue here - Pearisburg is your best bet.

All of the advice and caveats given above re winter backpacking are still appropriate if you go this route.

Whatever way you choose, have fun!

[mountain squid]

The two things that probably worry me most are the difficulty of seeing blazes in snow and the fact that it would be serious winter in the mountains when I got there. I don't have experience navigating in the woods and I don't have the time right now to train rigorously so that I could carry all the gear/food that is really necessary for winter backpacking. Glad that you got that point.


I want to hike the whole AT, not the first 30 miles.If time and weather do not permit this, why does it matter to hike the 'whole' trail? Seriously, why does it matter? I would think having FUN would be high on the list.

Wait until Mar when the weather is likely to be more favorable. Instead of being alone in miserable conditions, you'll have other hikers with you to share the misery. Which might make it enjoyable or at least bearable. The social aspect of the AT is often overlooked. Once you get out there, you'll realize just how many other hikers are out there enjoying and enduring the same thing you are.

You'll have 4-5 months of hiking if you do start in Mar which should allow you to get most of the trail done . . . if you don't finish it, you'll have something to look forward to after Grad school and, at that point, you'll be much more experienced . . .

Anyway, my suggestion is to Have Fun!, in whatever you decide to do.

See you on the trail,
mt squid

how to hike (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?73587-how-to-hike)

[Blissful]

You could easily start the AT late Feb (at least a little better weather-wise) and finish by August for grad school at your age. I know plenty who have done that.

[Slo-go'en]

I can't think of any long distance trail in the US which you could start in Jan which doesn't put you into serious winter conditions real quick.

Except for having to find something to do with yourself for a couple of months, starting the AT in March is the most sane option. You will still get a taste of winter conditions, but not as bad or long lasting as a Jan start would be. It still gives you pleanty of time to finish the trail if you keep up a decent pace and don't slack off.

Spend Jan and Feb getting into shape for the hike. Walk, cross country ski, snowshoe - what ever. Exactly what you can do for outdoor activities will depend on where you can spend those two months, but don't spend them sitting on your butt!

[The Old Boot]

Here's the thing: I graduate from college in December and I hopefully start grad school in August. In between I'm free to do whatever I want. I love the outdoors and I love challenges. The harder the better. I would love to hike the AT. That being said, I want to hike the whole AT, not the first 30 miles. If the majority here genuinely think I would not make it starting in January, is there a different trail I could start in January that might be more doable?

Have you looked at the Florida Trail. The recommended start time is January.

[LDog]

Make sure need thoroughly understand hypothermia - How to avoid it, how to recognize it, and what to do if it rears its ugly head. This is the sneaky killer because one of the first things to go is one's mental acuity and judgement. Folks don't recognize the early warning symptoms in themselves. Bad decisions are made, and then worst ones are made. Dropping a heavy pack to scout for a blaze, making poor navigation decisions, or pressing on when they should be getting warm.

In your case, when you're out there alone, without a buddy to monitor your condition, make sure that you know what you are going to do at the first sign of shivering or loss of delicate motor skills.

I'm re-posting this in case you missed it the first two times it was posted:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?8209-Hypothermia&p=96956&viewfull=1#post96956

[Marta]

Actually there are quite a few hikers every year who have August school start deadlines. They normally start mid-Feb. or March. At your age, you should probably be able to hike the whole trail in about five months. Working backwards...July, June, May, April, March. If you start March 1 you'll have more daylight, better weather, and some very enjoyable fellow travelers. And two months off before the trip to get yourself into shape, refine your gear choices, build skills, and maybe even work and earn a few extra bucks.

[LDog]

Would a pulk be a good choice on the trail? I've pulled one while winter camping and found it made life easier. But I wasn't negotiating mountain switchbacks ...

[budforester]

Welcome to Whiteblaze, Michelle!
Long- distance backpacking in "real" winter is out of my league, but I would try to get some practice lugging a winter- weight pack... build those muscles that I would need. That might also help with figuring distances for resupply. And the days will be short. I wonder whether there might be a better starting point than Springer... possible to cover some easier January- miles somewhere in the middle, then skip down south a little later and hike north to your start?

[DapperD]

I wonder whether there might be a better starting point than Springer... possible to cover some easier January- miles somewhere in the middle, then skip down south a little later and hike north to your start?This is what Cookerhiker just suggested in post #65 above:D:http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?78264-January-Start&p=1215540&viewfull=1#post1215540

[kayak karl]

a little note: it was a wet day about noon and who yells out to me on a road crossing, Mountain Squid LOL he gave me a Hug (the little juice drink kind) and some treats. it was fun hiking in the winter and ill do it again. will i finish? i doubt it, but how many can say they did the smokies in january with a stray dog and a broken rib LOL