View Full Version : The Prejudice Men Face
greenmtnboy
11-07-2011, 16:46
I saw the thread over at the women only site. I thought I would throw this out there for men who feel that political correctness sometimes becomes a bit too active....
Women have fears and don't like to be stereotyped, what about men? We get stereotyped too, hikers are expected to fit a certain profile, exercise jocks, macho, drop-outs, escapists or whatever.
I'll throw out this zinger that I came across the other day. You think that women are the only rape targets or victims, well men can be too. http://www.hopeforhealing.org/male.html
hikerboy57
11-07-2011, 17:19
some women are stronger hikers than men. some men are stronger hikers than women. some women are better prepared to defend themselves than men, some men are better prepared to defend themselves than women.some men still will hold a door open for a womean. some women will still appreciate it without going into a feminist tirade.not all, but some.
quilteresq
11-07-2011, 17:32
I'm a lawyer - the judges in our state hate men. You don't have to convince me they face discrimination.
Discimination exists everywhere and with anyone for all reasons.
For instance, I'm disciminated against based on my:
Sex
Race
Height
Age
Hair Color
Foot size (I knew a friend who wouldn't date a man based on his shoe size)
Political Affiliation
Religion
Experience
The list can continue. I'm just saying it's everything.
Know what? The mice in the shelters don't care if you're male, female, trans-gendered, gay, or lesbian.
stranger
11-07-2011, 17:47
Probably a good topic (probably) for a website on such topics. I thought this one was about hiking. You have a problem with a social condition or societal norm or prejudice, get on the street and organise.
Once in one of my long hikes I found myself lost in the forest for about two hours. When I was struggling to find my way to trail I saw a young female hiker who clearly was afraid of me. I just wanted to ask the direction from her but as I speeded up she did the same, so I stopped going her way even when I knew it should be the right direction just because she was not comfortable at least to say.
Then I found my way to trail almost accidentally and then realized that, wow, she was lost like me. It was almost dark so I made a camp in the forrest and after 2 hours being worried about her safety in forest, she found her way to my camp. Then not having any other option she decided to trust me for the night.
She told me that night that she was scared of me because of my look. I dont call it discrimination but I think things could have gone a lot smoother for us if there was no natural discrimination.If she was a he or I was a she then we could comunicate a lot sooner, right?
She told me that night that she was scared of me because of my look. I dont call it discrimination but I think things could have gone a lot smoother for us if there was no natural discrimination.If she was a he or I was a she then we could comunicate a lot sooner, right?
I would rather be scared of you and find out later that you were ok than to not be scared of you and find out later you weren't.
I would rather be scared of you and find out later that you were ok than to not be scared of you and find out later you weren't.
Fair enough but who suffers from this natural sex related mistrust ,nobody.
Fair enough but who suffers from this natural sex related mistrust ,nobody.
I think it's just common sense really. No harm, no foul.
Wise Old Owl
11-07-2011, 18:55
Crap - here you are talking about mistrust and usually I just get folks who come down the trail - look once, twice, and then run away!
Hey Scratch - you know what they say about Big FEET?
Big Shoes....
Lone Wolf
11-07-2011, 18:57
shouldn't this thread be in the humor forum?
Wise Old Owl
11-07-2011, 19:01
Damn I thought it was in the Humor section..... did it again.....
Now what was I doing.....
MissMagnolia
11-07-2011, 19:52
Once in one of my long hikes I found myself lost in the forest for about two hours. When I was struggling to find my way to trail I saw a young female hiker who clearly was afraid of me. I just wanted to ask the direction from her but as I speeded up she did the same, so I stopped going her way even when I knew it should be the right direction just because she was not comfortable at least to say.
Then I found my way to trail almost accidentally and then realized that, wow, she was lost like me. It was almost dark so I made a camp in the forrest and after 2 hours being worried about her safety in forest, she found her way to my camp. Then not having any other option she decided to trust me for the night.
She told me that night that she was scared of me because of my look. I dont call it discrimination but I think things could have gone a lot smoother for us if there was no natural discrimination.If she was a he or I was a she then we could comunicate a lot sooner, right?
I would just like to thank you for recognizing her fear and being understanding enough to change direction and let her leave. Nice guys understand why a girl might be scared in that situation and you proved you were a nice guy. Probably you doing that allowed her to trust you later when she saw you again.
Pedaling Fool
11-07-2011, 20:00
...some men still will hold a door open for a womean. some women will still appreciate it without going into a feminist tirade.not all, but some.I only hold the door open for hot girls and I never hold a door open for old people. I figure they need the exercise more than me; I guess that qualifies for tough love, but imagine many would prejudge me as an ass hole:D
I only hold the door open for hot girls and I never hold a door open for old people. I figure they need the exercise more than me; I guess that qualifies for tough love, but imagine many would prejudge me as an ass hole:DSo...you discriminate on the basis of age, eh? I hold the door open for anyone who is close enough that otherwise it would slam on them.
hikerboy57
11-07-2011, 20:08
it has been proven that beautiful men and women earn more money than their average looking counterparts. I belong to the 99%.discrimination is indiscriminate.
I only hold the door open for hot girls and I never hold a door open for old people. I figure they need the exercise more than me; I guess that qualifies for tough love, but imagine many would prejudge me as an ass hole:D
It is up to you to keep the door open for anybody you want!!! but what is the gain to talk about your not-so-much-friendly appraoch to elderly here? I think you were joking though
Pedaling Fool
11-07-2011, 20:18
I always open the door for my cat.....and hot chics....:-? thinking, thinking...nope that's it.
I always open the door for my cat.....and hot chics....:-? thinking, thinking...nope that's it.Are the hot chics dumb enough to walk in?
Pedaling Fool
11-07-2011, 20:28
Aren't they all:eek:
Toolshed
11-07-2011, 20:41
Once in one of my long hikes I found myself lost in the forest for about two hours. When I was struggling to find my way to trail I saw a young female hiker who clearly was afraid of me. I just wanted to ask the direction from her but as I speeded up she did the same, so I stopped going her way even when I knew it should be the right direction just because she was not comfortable at least to say.
Then I found my way to trail almost accidentally and then realized that, wow, she was lost like me. It was almost dark so I made a camp in the forrest and after 2 hours being worried about her safety in forest, she found her way to my camp. Then not having any other option she decided to trust me for the night.
She told me that night that she was scared of me because of my look. I dont call it discrimination but I think things could have gone a lot smoother for us if there was no natural discrimination.If she was a he or I was a she then we could comunicate a lot sooner, right?
Well in this vein, too many times people (but let's stick with women in this example) will have that innate pit in the stomach feeling that something isn't right about someone - We all pick up these signals without being aware that we are doing it. Many times, though, women will put this off under the auspices that
A: This is the 2000's and I am a strong woman, no one is going to do something...
B: my mind is playing tricks on me,
C: this is nonsense no one is going to hurt me - stop acting like a baby....
So I applaud her at her evasionary manoeuvre's.
What I don't like is that men have become fodder for advertisers to make us look like dufus's while making women look brilliant (soap commercials, insurance commercials, Beer commercials, chip commercials...) If they reversed table and made women look like idiots and men as shining stars, there would be sheer hell to pay.
hikerboy57
11-07-2011, 20:43
What I don't like is that men have become fodder for advertisers to make us look like dufus's while making women look brilliant (soap commercials, insurance commercials, Beer commercials, chip commercials...) If they reversed table and made women look like idiots and men as shining stars, there would be sheer hell to pay.
everyone loves raymond.
greenmtnboy
11-07-2011, 21:30
"Well in this vein, too many times people (but let's stick with women in this example) will have that innate pit in the stomach feeling that something isn't right about someone - We all pick up these signals without being aware that we are doing it".
I never got those "signals" but maybe I am thick.
There are a lot of "issues" of possible bias here. The woods are about the most vulnerable place people find themselves in.
I try to turn around any given situation and ask if if were the other sex that was acting like that would it be inappropriate.
So we have men being reported for indecent exposure; when was the last time you saw a woman being reported for that? We have men being reported for sexual harassment, when was the last time you saw a woman reported for that? We see men going to jail for years for various inappropriate sexual transgressions, when was the last time you saw a woman going to jail for that? These are biased situations, and as the lawyer said earlier, she sees it every day in the culture she works in.
Cultural shifts take time to settle and get accepted, and we deal with them differently. Some people shove well-intended agendas and wonder why everybody doesn't hop on board, some blindly resist change, and most try their best to adjust (the grownups). They can play out lopsided zigzagging on the road to balance, as in advertising mentioned already that portrays men as clueless sneufs, in reparation mentality (I'm not talking racial) where reason flies out the window, and in other interactions on the job or on the street. Works best to keep an open mind.
hikerboy57
11-07-2011, 21:38
here in NY we've had a few female teachers having inappropriate relationships with students, and its not isolated to NY.men dont get reported for indecent exposure unless theyre exposing themselves. Hey, Im a guy, and I dont get the argument. men make more money, are(generally) physically larger and stronger, and if a couple goes out to dinner, the check, by default , is presented to the male..There is definitely a bias towards women in family court, but outside of that, how many women presidents have we had?I guess if you're at a feminist rally or walk into a lesbian club, you would get looked at as a bit strange, but wouldnt you be?
we need women. otherwise we'd never stop and ask for directions.
Cookerhiker
11-07-2011, 21:44
...What I don't like is that men have become fodder for advertisers to make us look like dufus's while making women look brilliant (soap commercials, insurance commercials, Beer commercials, chip commercials...) If they reversed table and made women look like idiots and men as shining stars, there would be sheer hell to pay.
Not just ads or sitcoms. What really p'd me off was when my kids were young 25 years ago, we had these Berenstein Bears books supposedly aimed at educating young children on things they'd encounter growing up. Invariably, the Momma was portrayed as the wise, organized, in-command parent while the Pappa was the bumbling dufus. I don't know what the h*** motivated the authors/publishers to present the roles that way but after a while, I refused to read them. My wife at the time was indifferent; my kids liked them but I found other books to read to them.
hikerboy57
11-07-2011, 21:49
wheres ward cleaver?didnt father know best?didnt they used to make room for daddy?
or has alice always been smarter than ralph?
Cookerhiker
11-07-2011, 21:57
wheres ward cleaver?didnt father know best?didnt they used to make room for daddy?
or has alice always been smarter than ralph?
You forgot Lucy & Ricky
hikerboy57
11-07-2011, 22:00
You forgot Lucy & Ricky
or lucy and charlie brown-"hey charlie brown, want me to hold the ball for you?"
BobTheBuilder
11-07-2011, 22:05
it has been proven that beautiful men and women earn more money than their average looking counterparts.
Yes, yes we do.
hikerboy57
11-07-2011, 22:06
political correctness is a concept that can deny our history.WWII bugs bunny cartoons no longer air on TV because of the way japanese were portrayed, and when was the last time you saw an epsiode of the little rascals? theres no doubt that there are racist overtones in each, and yet ,it saddens me that we dont want to see where we were , to see how far we've come as a society.IMHO, political correctness is another form of reverse bias.all part of the dumbing down of america.
greenmtnboy
11-07-2011, 22:13
A few other examples come to mind:
Squaw Mountain in Greenville, ME has been renamed Moose Mountain; some people found the name objectionable.
Every time I walk down the snack aisle at the supermarket and see box after box labelled "crackers", I, and many other white people are deeply offended. We need to boycott the "cracker" manufacturers until they change the name to "biscuits" like the English so respectfully did many years ago.
some women are stronger hikers than men.
Jennifer Farr Davis is a good example.
I only hold the door open for hot girls and I never hold a door open for old people. I figure they need the exercise more than me; I guess that qualifies for tough love, but imagine many would prejudge me as an ass hole:DThat's okay, hot girls hold the door open for me (old coot). I don't get offended at all.
Wise Old Owl
11-07-2011, 23:48
Oh Marta - you love to stir things up..... most use a stick .... Yours is a hiking pole.;)
Rain Man
11-08-2011, 10:16
... but imagine many would prejudge me as an ass hole:D
And if what you said were all true, you would be astute!
Rain Man
.
Rain Man
11-08-2011, 10:17
everyone loves raymond.
Why, thank you!
Rain:sunMan
.
Rain Man
11-08-2011, 10:22
"Political correctness" is a term invented by those who wish to mindlessly demonize the concept of walking a mile in someone else's shoes.
Rain Man
.
max patch
11-08-2011, 10:34
Once in one of my long hikes I found myself lost in the forest for about two hours. When I was struggling to find my way to trail I saw a young female hiker who clearly was afraid of me. I just wanted to ask the direction from her but as I speeded up she did the same, so I stopped going her way even when I knew it should be the right direction just because she was not comfortable at least to say.
Maybe I didn't read that correctly. Lets try again....
"so I stopped going her way even when I knew it should be the right direction"
Nope. Read it right. Thats just plain stupid. You. Not her.
Know what? The mice in the shelters don't care if you're male, female, trans-gendered, gay, or lesbian.Hey now. Welcome to the 21st Century. Squeek means squeek.
At my age I am finally realizing I might as well be a gentleman, for all the good it does me. :-)
coach lou
11-08-2011, 10:55
Lately I've noticed being a gentleman is now Politicaly INcorrect.
WingedMonkey
11-08-2011, 11:07
It takes a tread like this to remind me of why I avoid others on the trail.
hikerboy57
11-08-2011, 11:09
I have striven my entire life to be politically incorrect. Im not about to stop now.I mean lets just call a spade a spade, and look at life in its stark reality, not the warm and fuzzy vanilla world of blandness they would like us to accept. Its our differences and our ability to look beyond them that has made america great. Its okay to recognize those differences and accept them.I dont care for this homogenized cultural shift.
greenmtnboy
11-08-2011, 11:57
I feel the same way. Accepting life on life's terms not on the terms I expect or want necessarily, but as they are. I am not expecting to get anything out of others and try to treat others with respect, not in ways that I may be intimidated into. If women may feel uncomfortable in certain situations, and put a "trip" on fellow hikers by looks, words and attitudes, it may be a reaction mechanism; men can feel uncomfortable for different reasons. Life is a two way street.
It takes a tread like this to remind me of why I avoid others on the trail.
yeppers. :)
I have striven my entire life to be politically incorrect. Im not about to stop now.I mean lets just call a spade a spade, and look at life in its stark reality, not the warm and fuzzy vanilla world of blandness they would like us to accept. Its our differences and our ability to look beyond them that has made america great. Its okay to recognize those differences and accept them.I dont care for this homogenized cultural shift.
Mostly agree. However, I also like to avoid drama. Except here. ;)
I thought it was interesting how I was percieved by others on the trail, and how that changed the longer I was on the trail. I never shaved, lost about 20 lbs and by the time I was done, my clothes were looking pretty ragged. Early on, I think people recognized that I was backpacking. I got on the trail in Virginia, so most thru hikers had already found their friends, and being the new guy, a lot of them just thought I was a weekend hiker. The farther north I got, and the more grungy I looked, they all assumed I was a thru hiker. Conversely, non hikers treated me with a lot more respect early on, and the farther I got, I think they thought I was just a transient. I took a wrong turn in NY trying to get to the vending machines at a lake (tiorati I think?). Anyway, I accidentally walked into a kids camp thinking it was the lake. I'm pretty sure that the girl working at the camp thought I was a child predator. When I explained the situation, she gave me directions, but I think it was mostly to get me away from the kids. I respected that she was looking out for the kids safety, but it really made me feel like a piece of crap. She was not very nice to me.
Maybe I didn't read that correctly. Lets try again....
"so I stopped going her way even when I knew it should be the right direction"
Nope. Read it right. Thats just plain stupid. You. Not her.
Plain stupid? What you call plain stupid others called being consideate.
You are a 2000 miller? really? You hiked 2000 mile and still are that ignorant and impolite toward others? the journey did not teach you to be a human being?
or you maye are type of person who Thru-hiked AT and now thinks is elite of elites and has a power of something.
Your posts about others are mostly destructive, braging ......
You bro will not change even if you thru-hike the planet earth.
Hiking just turns you from a plain stupid to a complex one.
max patch
11-08-2011, 17:22
Plain stupid? What you call plain stupid others called being consideate.
Lets recap. You are lost. You think the trail is North. But if you head North you will be following a girl that you think is afraid of you. So you head East or West. But not North even tho you think that is the way.
I take it back. Thats not stupid. Thats real stupid.
Old Hiker
11-08-2011, 17:57
My Scout Troop camped on the top of Cheoah Bald this past summer. About 2 hours from sunset, a family of 4 comes up the trail - stated they took 3 hours to get there. No map, no light, minimal water/food. I gave them directions with our maps and a small flashlight, as I was afraid they would be on the trail after dark. The daughter kept looking around at my Scouts and kept saying, "Let's go dad, let's go" in a scared way, at least it sounded to me. I wanted to tell her she was safer with us than on the trail after dark, but dad made the decision and off they went. Haven't heard of any families missing north of the NOC, so hopefully they made it.
Appearances can be deceiving.
Lets recap. You are lost. You think the trail is North. But if you head North you will be following a girl that you think is afraid of you. So you head East or West. But not North even tho you think that is the way.
I take it back. Thats not stupid. Thats real stupid.
In my original post I stated that" I stopped going her way" does it mean I turned east or west? no just I tried to make a safe distance between us for her convenience. Then as I mentioned accidentally I found the trail that was not the way she was searching.
This is not that complicated to understand but in your case it seems you believe persistance on Ignorance is a virtue.It is not.
doritotex
11-08-2011, 18:08
Everyone and every group faces prejudices, there is no dispute in that! The woman that started her thread in the women's forum was just expressing concerns about what she has faced. For a man to start this thread in retaliation is childish.
max patch
11-08-2011, 18:09
I call Bull$hit on your whole story. Doesn't make sense.
Your take of the whole incident does not change a rat ass of what happened there. you are free to call it whatever you like but do not talk about" Making sense" since It is too much for you.
Gentlemen: Please tone it down. While this is the General Forum, so you don't have to be quite as nice to each other as the Women's Forum requires, WhiteBlaze policies forbid the hurling of insults.
Skidsteer
11-08-2011, 22:54
"Political correctness" is a term invented by those who wish to mindlessly demonize the concept of walking a mile in someone else's shoes.
Rain Man
.
"Political Correctness" is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
You had to know that was coming. :D
Wise Old Owl
11-09-2011, 02:58
Marta you are astute, why hurl insults when we can pick up cow pies by the clean end and hurl them at each other....
Marta you are astute, why hurl insults when we can pick up cow pies by the clean end and hurl them at each other....
While I didn't grow up on a farm, I grew up in farm country (the football field at my middle school was loaded with cow pies, and often, cows). There's a clean end to a cow pie???? Live and learn, I guess...
Pedaling Fool
11-09-2011, 10:10
Political correctness is a boneheaded policy, but I do think some that express their opinion are falsely charged with practicing it. I know I've been charged with political correctness, but that's because people didn't see my point. This same thing is happening with sex crimes, too many people are being tagged as "sexual predators" for actions anything but...
corialice81
11-09-2011, 10:28
discrimination knows no gender... just reading the news this morning, for example, how bout them Nittany Lions...
whether male/female, while hiking a short distance or long distance, overnight or months...
ALWAYS TRUST AND LISTEN TO YOUR INNER VOICE (some refer to it as your instinct)
If you feel uncomfortable...keep walking.
Wise Old Owl
11-09-2011, 22:17
The most important thing Bobp is learning to find your funny bone when on the trail....
how was cleaning chips from the cleats?
Kookork,
I think you did the right thing. You put aside your own immediate needs to reduce this woman's fear and suffering really. Being scared and lost in the woods and followed by a man who sets off more fears, what's that...a form of suffering. Yes it's inconvenient to change your course for awhile to let her get her distance, but you did it for her peace of mind; even a complete stranger you never expect to see again. It probably made you feel better giving her this time rather than doggedly sticking to your schedule and adding to her fears. Look what it allowed later. The story speaks for itself.
And Max Patch, you are right in a very strict sense, as you point out, if one is headed to Maine, you don't just up and start walking to Florida because some woman walking to Maine has mistaken you for a creep. But surely you either would have slowed down, let her get out of eyesight; in that way given her the sense that she was not being followed? Or sped up and just hiked on past her quickly, and been on your way. But I feel certain you wouldn't have just kept on mosying along, adding to her fears?
I guess one thing I'd observe here---when people regard me fearfully, I think it is important to difuse the prejudice I face. Like Kookork did. Yeah, it is inconvient, yes it is a bummer to be misjudged, but that doesn't change the responsibility to alleviate as much suffering my 'otherness' causes, by being kind. This is all when I'm rested, conscious, mindful. When I'm grouchy, unconcious stressed...just saying this is what I aspire to do when I encounter the prejudice we face. My two cents.
hikerboy57
11-10-2011, 19:19
for this same reason, I feel bears and rattlers also suffer from prejudice. Prejudice in general is due to a lack of understanding and fear of what they dont know.There are people who have irrational fears fo other people, and others who have irrational fears of animals. fear can be a good thing, its a self defense mechanism that can help keep you alive.If I were a single woman who was apprehensive of hiking alone, well then......maybe i wouldnt hike alone.and if i did hike alone, I would probably already have enough self confidence to handle an uncomfortable encounter. I would probably be more nrevous if you walked out of sight. I also feel more comfortable knowing exactly where that bear/rattler is, its when I know theyre around and cant see them makes me sometimes a bit skittish.
Sarcasm the elf
11-10-2011, 21:32
The adversity these men (and women) face is nothing compared to the prejudice my dog faces every day on the trail, particularly from internet hikers. :eek:
Seriously, relax, be yourself and don't let other people's stupidity ruin your good day.
Probably a good topic (probably) for a website on such topics. I thought this one was about hiking. You have a problem with a social condition or societal norm or prejudice, get on the street and organise.
Yeah, occupy the AT.:rolleyes: