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Teatime
03-03-2005, 03:20
My 5-year old son has done numerous day hikes with my wife and I and he really seems to enjoy it. He also loves camping. So, I was thinking it's about time to put the two together and take him on his 1st overnighter on the AT to see how he does. We live near Raleigh, NC so anything in Western NC or Virginia would be okay. Any suggestions or comments from you Dads or Kids out there?

neo
03-03-2005, 03:30
go for it mr ed,when my boys were 5 and 7 they did a section hike from waterville road near I-40 to hotsprings nc,we did it in 3 days averaging 11 to 12 miles a day,they carried their on gear,logan started kindergarten the next day after we finished,good luck and happy trail to you and your family:sun neo

Teatime
03-03-2005, 07:11
Thanks for the encouraging words, neo. If he does well on the overnighter I will take him on my next section hike. Can you recommend any kid size gear? I went to REI and looked at the Kelty Long Trail Jr. pack. It seemed to fit him okay. He has a North Face Tigger sleeping bag already, so that should do. Any other gear recommendations?

SGT Rock
03-03-2005, 07:48
MY youngest was 4 on his first overnight because he wanted to go so bad. He is now 7 has done some overnight hikes as long as 5 miles and could probably go longer. Currently he doesn't want to go overnight because to him it is too cold, he wants to wait until it warms up in spring :sun

I figure if he is 7 and already knows his hiking style, I must be doing something right :D

totally Boagus
03-03-2005, 07:56
we first took our two kids out for a weekend when they were 5&7. We started at Reeds gap, Va. and went up and over Three ridges down to Harpers creek, and down to rt. 56 the next day. We found that a section of trail with lots of views and creeks to play in helped keep them interested. I sometimes would push out ahead and place little candy bars on rocks in the middle of the trail. With mom following up with them, the chance finding of "junk fuel" also kept them motivated. My son, now 14 has several hundred miles of the AT under his belt and can knock out 15 mile days whith out a problem. My little girl will only go when she thinks her brothers friends are "hot"!

Groucho
03-03-2005, 08:52
My 5-year old son has done numerous day hikes with my wife and I and he really seems to enjoy it. He also loves camping. So, I was thinking it's about time to put the two together and take him on his 1st overnighter on the AT to see how he does. We live near Raleigh, NC so anything in Western NC or Virginia would be okay. Any suggestions or comments from you Dads or Kids out there?

Grayson Highlands at Massie Gap. About 1/2 mile from AT. Camp at Wilburn Ridge or many other places. Only about 2.5 miles from lot to Rhododendron Gap on AT. 1.6 more to Mount Rogers. Could do loop of about 12 miles using AT and Pine Mt. Great for first trip. Ponies, scenery, easy. Less crowded on weekdays. Took our daughter on her first overnighter here. She really enjoyed it. About 3 1/4 or so hours from Triangle area. email or pm if you need info.

tlbj6142
03-03-2005, 11:26
When your children are that young (less than 7/8) you need to be prepared to carry all of the gear if something goes wrong as they tend not to have the internal drive to push/work through the pain. One slip on a rock and a banged up knee can mean you are carrying all the gear for the day/trip.

So, before you leave put everything on your back. Can you lash your child's pack onto yours? Can you stuff some, or all, of their gear into your pack? etc.

Go slow. Take lots of breaks. Setup up camp early. Go on a firewood collection "day hike", make a fire. Eat fun food. Play in the creeks. Maybe take a small "fish/butterfly" net to scoop up crayfish, small fish, newts, etc. Give each child their own lanyard with a whistle and a small LED flashlight. Teach them your signal for if they get lost.

I tell mine to sit down and blow the whistle 3 long times. count to 20 repeat. If they 'hear' another whistle, echo back often. We have run a practice drill in the woods in our backyard. Makes the kids and Mom:D feel better.

Good luck.

Bumpman
03-03-2005, 12:04
Go slow. Take lots of breaks. Setup up camp early. Go on a firewood collection "day hike", make a fire. Eat fun food. Play in the creeks. Maybe take a small "fish/butterfly" net to scoop up crayfish, small fish, newts, etc. Give each child their own lanyard with a whistle and a small LED flashlight. Teach them your signal for if they get lost.Great advise! Keep it very light, go slow and make sure they have a whistle. While you are out teach them things like first aid, map reading and fire starting. You may have to carry most of their gear but I always made sure they had a sleeping bag in their pack just in case.

I've always let the kids set the pace and control when we break. This can be frustrating at first, seems like to many breaks to slow etc. but will pay off in the long run. Now that they are older (17&13) I'm the one frustrating them by hiking to slow, they now carry more weight then me and have camp all setup when I finally get there.

shaunashatto
03-03-2005, 14:57
My son started backpacking with us when he was three. We would do around 20 miles most every weekend. We don't in the winter, except in cases when there is a warm front. Anyway last year, when he was 5 we walked all of the AT in Georgia including the approach trail and ended at Deep Gap, NC. He carried a Kelty daypack and inside he had his water bottle, some clothes, some snacks, and a couple toys. Now he is 6 BTW, and wanting a bigger backpack.
Yes, he's the one who actually wants one :-) So we are going to get him a Kelty Lynx Junior backpack and this adjusts as he grows.
There is no reason whatsoever your 5 year old, especially since he has hiked good before, couldn't do overnighters.

We have hiked all of the AT in VA from Damascus up to the Blue Ridge Parkway area. Obviously, since we live in SWVA we have done the same sections more than once. Our favorite areas are Mount Rogers, Laurel Creek area, White Rock area, and Catawba area, and.....Well, we love most all of it <VBG>

I think it is absolutely fabulous that you want to expose him to this great addiction :-) Good for you!

Shauna (who's a part of the Shatto Express)

The Cheat
03-03-2005, 15:13
Any good rules of thumb as to how much food and water to plan per day for a 7 or 8 year old?

The Solemates
03-03-2005, 15:13
i'll never forget my first backpacking experience along the Foothills Trail, SC. We did a 2.1 mile hike-in-and-out overnight and I thought we had walked the length of America.

tlbj6142
03-03-2005, 16:31
Any good rules of thumb as to how much food and water to plan per day for a 7 or 8 year old?I find I need to force water on my kids. Food isn't much of an issue as long as I bring something they like. If I bring some neat-o pasta thing which they think is yucky they won't eat it. So, I stick to lots of snacks. A gorp mix they like, chex mix, and krave "bars". They won't touch the good Cliff bars. I don't like candy bars, so I never bring them along for the kids.

Oatmeal, eggs or breakfast bars (or 'bites') seem to work for breakfast. Tortiallas with peanut butter for lunch, mac 'n cheese or soup for dinner.

The one thing I have learned is that they never finish their "meals", so I under estimate my food and eat the leftovers. If for some reason they do eat their meals, I can come up short and get by. I hate ending a trip with extra food. Might as well carry a rock in your pack.

mbroadhe
03-24-2005, 02:08
I had the same question and am enjoying reading everyone's experiences here. As I was building and lighting my alcohol stove my 9 y/o step daughter came up to me and asked what I was doing. I showed her the stove, why it worked and how. Then she asked why? Well, I told her it was for hiking. Her reply, "I wanna go". Now, we have done some car camping and she absolutely loves being out there. I told her their would be lotsa walking and she was still up for it. So, I'm going to test her this year with an overnighter and see how she holds up on the AT. My question comes on some gear, what she should carry, how much, etc. I'm not sure if she's going to like it and want to do it again, so I don't want to go overboard buying stuff that will only be used once. So, would a simple "school backpack" be OK on her? What do your children usually carry on their own?

C-Stepper
03-24-2005, 08:58
My 12 yo daughter recently invited herself to one of my trips (I'd been on short solos, so this was quite an adjustment for me). I was checking out my new Squall Tarptent in the backyard, and playing around with my new can stove, too...she crawled into my tent and began discussing how much fun we were going to have on the next trip!:eek:

I rented a pack and sleeping bag from REI, where I'm a member, and it's pretty cheap...for the whole weekend, I think I dropped 50 bucks or so on the rentals. Jessica wore her regular sneakers and socks. Her pack was around 18 pounds for a two nighter, my pack was 22 pounds, and we hiked 21 miles. This was in October (so no winter gear, temps down to 40F), and the trip wasn't in the "real" mountains (highest elevation 900 feet, so the hiking wasn't too tough).

I'd shy away from the school backpack unless you're going to keep your trip REALLY short, like just a couple of miles for a night. My reason is that I just wonder how you'll carry everything yourself (can't put much in that school backpack!). And I know that my daughter liked carrying a real backpack and toting her own bag, food, water, clothes, emergency kit, and map & guide.

Hyway
03-24-2005, 09:16
I agree with taking him to Grayson Highlands for your first trip. Its has more view per step taken than just about any other place. Plus the hiking isn't that hard since its mostly ridge hiking. Water is abundent, but none to swim in. Deer are everywhere, they may walk right through your camp. If you are gentle you can walk right up to the wild ponies and pet them. Plus, and this could be important for some people, there are several pit toilets along the trail.

But if you aren't ready for that, you could take him to Raven Rock State Park near Lillington (which is just a few miles from you). Its only 1 1/2 miles to the canoe campsites. From there its less than a mile to the cliff, a 150' high rock wall that lines the river. My 2 daughters and I stayed there for 2 nights and dayhiked all over the park.

Of course, its not the AT so I don't know if I should be mentioning it on this site.

SGT Rock
03-24-2005, 14:24
I had the same question and am enjoying reading everyone's experiences here. As I was building and lighting my alcohol stove my 9 y/o step daughter came up to me and asked what I was doing. I showed her the stove, why it worked and how. Then she asked why? Well, I told her it was for hiking. Her reply, "I wanna go". Now, we have done some car camping and she absolutely loves being out there. I told her their would be lotsa walking and she was still up for it. So, I'm going to test her this year with an overnighter and see how she holds up on the AT. My question comes on some gear, what she should carry, how much, etc. I'm not sure if she's going to like it and want to do it again, so I don't want to go overboard buying stuff that will only be used once. So, would a simple "school backpack" be OK on her? What do your children usually carry on their own?
Just my experience. Let her take some of her own stuff in a school backpack and you carry the rest. My kids usually don't go totally self supported in their packs until about 12.

Doctari
03-24-2005, 15:46
First overnighter with my eldest, (I'm not going to admit he was 15 :) ) He carried only: sleeping bag, his 2 lunches, water, rain gear. I carried everything else. Even had to carry his pack AND mine, for over a mile.
We had a GREAT time.

Just Jeff
03-25-2005, 11:15
Any suggestions or comments from you Dads or Kids out there?
My kids are 5 and 9 and love to backpack. They carry their sleeping bag, raingear and a bit of food and water in a small school backpack, and I carry the rest. They clip an emergency whistle onto their shirts.

My 5yr old usually sleeps with me in the HH; my 9yr old sleeps in a homemade hammock.

They think drinking out of the Platypus tube is fun, so I don't have to push water on them.

Here's a <a href=http://www.trailforums.com/index2.cfm?action=detail&PostNum=3039&Thread=8&roomID=9&entryID=25905>long post</a> from Trailforums about hiking with kids:


I hike/camp with 4 and 8 year old boys, and the biggest trick I came up with was to slow down and take more rest stops. I wanted to "get there", but they wanted to explore and touch everything along the way. Once I learned to hike like they do, I was less frustrated - and my lack of frustration resulted in less tension between them. That and the fact that I started looking for things along the way for them to do. Here's my list...


1 - Planned and unplanned snack breaks. Bring a big snack or lunch for about the midway point, but bring a few smaller snacks for random stops along the way. If they see a fallen tree they want to climb on, stop for 10 minutes and let them play while you snack. My kids still like to pretend so this works great for them...even if I have to give them a few ideas to fuel their imaginations. Last night, their hammock was a ship and they were battling pirates in a sea storm.

2 - Scavenger hunts are da bomb. They pay attention to what you put on the list, which gives you a chance to teach them about different plants, animals, tracks, whatever, when they find it. And you can make different lists for each child. First advantage, they're age-appropriate. Secondly, they both want to see what's on the other's list. Then you offer a prize when BOTH lists are completed - instant teamwork. Bonus - since you make the list, you have time to make sure you know interesting facts about several things on there. They think you're smarter than you really are that way!

3 - I spy. You can keep it interesting by naming facts instead of visible traits. Instead of "I spy something green," you could say, "I spy something that causes rashes." Poison Ivy leaves. Then teach them to identify it. Or, "I spy something that nests in trees," instead of, "I spy something fuzzy" for squirrels. Then teach them the difference between squirrels and chipmunks.

4 - Senses with verbs. Everyone sits and takes turns talking about senses, but make sure each observation has a verb in it. For example, you can't say, "I see something green." You have to say, "I see something swaying in the breeze." Or, "I smell something decaying" if you're in a swamp. It's too easy to fall back on listing visible traits, so encourage them to use their other senses. "I feel the temperature change of an approaching rainstorm." The coolest is when they begin to notice subtle details and say things like, "I smell the forest growing."

5 - Outside the box. Pick something in the forest during a break, or something in the distance that you'll be able to see for some time, and have each one list a few things it reminds them of. For example, my grandmother went on a hike with my aunt when she was younger. They found a rock, and my grandmother asked, "What do you see?" "A rock," she answered. "I see a piece of bread." And the rock did look like a piece of bread. So my grandmother took it home and painted it, and printed "Our daily bread" on it. My aunt just brought it to my grandmother's funeral last January and said she'd used that as inspiration for solving problems throughout her life. Learning to think outside the box during simple things like a hike will equip them to use those same skills when it really matters.

6 - Happy lists. Make them list 4 things they're grateful for. Five things they like about themselves. Or for a bigger challenge...five things they like about each other! Or three reasons they're glad you brought them on a hike. Top three things they like doing with you or with the family. The list goes on and on...but sometimes it's hard to keep them focused on happy things when they're grumpy. I often get, "I like it when my brother shuts up."

7 - Play trivia. It helps if you keep useless information in your noggin.

8 - Um...sometimes we make up diarrhea songs because they're at that age. Hey...it keeps them talking and let's them know I can communicate on their level instead of trying to bring them to mine. That's more fun, anyway. Bonus - they look up to me like a genius because I can make almost anything rhyme with some word for poop. http://www.trailforums.com/images/smilies/smokin.gif

9 - Have a class. Without the lecturing, but teach them something. If it starts to rain, teach them gravity, the water cycle, pollution and acid raid, how to collect rainwater if you're surviving, etc. Kids like to touch and do, so bring along a poncho and teach them to build a shelter with it. Bring along a stove (pepsi cans rock!) and have them boil their drinking water, or make a warm lunch, or just hot chocolate on a cold day. Or pick three edible plants, teach them, then collect them along the way and have a buffet during your lunch break. You can work wonders with dandelions...search the web for recipes!

10 - Trick them. Here's one I did this morning on the way back from our camping trip. I "found" a pile of poop next to Amicalola Creek while they were playing in it. I called them over and explained how the animals come to drink, how you can find water by following game trails, etc. Then I asked what kind of poop they thought it was. Deer, rabbit...just guesses. So I said that you can tell what an animal has been eating by how the poop smells and tastes, then I picked up a piece and ate it...confirming that it was deer poop. My 8yr old screamed and ran away! Then I gave him his own pack of Raisinettes and he knew I just tricked him. The scary thing? My 4yr old actually tasted it before I showed him it was candy. Now THAT'S trust! If you know of other tricks, maybe we should start a new thread about how to trick kids in the woods.

11 - Just listen to them. Ask questions and don't offer your own answers...just listen to theirs. In "real life" it's easy to get too busy to really listen to your kids. Sometimes when we hike, I just let my 8 year old talk and talk. At times I'm listening and actively engaged...you rarely get a chance to have a conversation with your kids where there are almost no distractions and you can really communicate. That's where the deeper questions of life, like the birds and the bees, are asked and answered. Sometimes I'm all-but-ignoring him and watching the wilderness, but asking a few questions now and then so he knows I'm still there. But at least he appreciates the fact that he gets all the time in the world to just talk about whatever he wants, and most importantly, that I'm not trying to teach him something or lecture him or show him "the right way." And sometimes it's hard NOT to tell him what I'm thinking, but it boosts his self-esteem and makes him more open to me, and therefore more likely to come to me when he has a problem, and more likely to look on his walks in the woods as fond memories. Bonus - when they run out of things to talk about and you get that comfortable silence when you just enjoy being together without a purpose. These moments are few and far between at younger ages, so they're all the more special. But then, at those ages pretty much ANY silence is special. Ok...closing the novel now. One of my favorite parts of hiking is what I can do with my kids and remembering when my dad took me camping, so I like to share it with everybody!

Teatime
03-25-2005, 13:17
Well, we did it! :) Daniel (my 5 year old son) and I completed his 1st overnighter and he did great. Since I already had maps for SNP I decided that we would hike from Rockfish Gap to the Calf Mtn. Shelter, spend the night, and then hike back to Rockfish the next day. We had lots of fun and he thought staying at the shelter was really cool. We shot a whole role of pictures (he's an excellent photographer for 5 years old). I ended up carrying most of our gear, about 40 lbs. worth (including a 6 lbs. tent!) and he just carried some food, his fleece jacket and Telly (his little stuffed Kitty Cat). We had beautiful weather and the views were awesome from Bear Den Mtn.
Before we started, however, we had to figure out a few things. I told him about trail names and without hesitation he pronounced his was going to be "Skyblue". I told him that was a great trail name (and it is) and then wondered why it had taken me so long to come up with one. So, Skyblue and I set to work on my trail name. We first came up with "Teatime", due to my recent conversion from being a coffee drinker to a hardcore tea drinker. Then, I thought I might try Teapot. I am rather short and stout, you know. However, since I don't really want to be reminded that I am short and stout, I think I will stick with Teatime. Anyway, I plan to do something about the stout part.
He was really funny at times. During out first hard climb I told him I needed to stop and "catch my breath", which of course, he didn't. So, whenever I stopped he asked me, "Daddy, your breath is catching?". Sometimes he also let me know he needed a break by telling me, "Daddy, my breath is catching".
There were only 2 minor downers during the trip. On day 1, as we reached the first set of radio towers on Bear Den Mtn., he had an accident in his pants. I think it was one of those things when you expect gas but get a solid instead. Anyway, he got upset about it and so did I at first. However, I realized I could screw his trip up if I made a big deal about it so I hugged him and told him it was no big deal. I told him that has happened to all of us at some time and before long we were cutting up and laughing about it. I cleaned him up and we were on our way. On day 2, when we got back to McCormick Gap, I decided it might be easier on him to road walk Skyline Drive. It turned out that this was a bad idea. Although the grade was easier, the asphalt was much harder than the trail and hurt our feet. In hindsight, I wish we would have stuck to the AT. All-in-all it was a great little trip, which I think has wet his appetite for more. Thanks to all on this thread for their suggestions, recommendations and moral support. I will try to get some of our pictures posted in the near future. :sun

weary
03-26-2005, 08:03
My 5-year old son has done numerous day hikes with my wife and I and he really seems to enjoy it. He also loves camping. So, I was thinking it's about time to put the two together and take him on his 1st overnighter on the AT to see how he does. We live near Raleigh, NC so anything in Western NC or Virginia would be okay. Any suggestions or comments from you Dads or Kids out there?
My youngest carried his first pack at age 3 years, 4 months, a three-day, 7-mile, round trip to Chimney Pond, half way to the summit of Katahdin. He walked the whole way, along with his brother, 4, and his sister 6. I don't know what my pack weight was. But as we were packing to leave Baxter I pushed against the tail gate of my Plymouth Wagon and fluid oozed out of someplace in my knee and it swelled to double its normal size.

The youngest -- and the rest -- climbed Katahdin two years later, much to the consternation of the Chimney Pond rangers. By age seven and up we did all of the 283 mile AT in Maine in weekend and longer expeditions.

The key to such hiking is to allow the kids to set the pace -- well until they approach their teens and then you have to slow them to your pace.

Our first family trip to Chimney Pond took us 6 hours in and five out. We got faster as the years progressed, but basically we went mostly from shelter to shelter. I kept the kid pack weights low during the early years. But I think it essential that they carry packs of their own. It makes them part of the adventure, not just another kid tagging along after a parent.

Weary www.matlt.org

Teatime
03-29-2005, 05:35
I carried about 40 lbs and Skyblue carried less than 7 lbs. Since he weighs 61 lbs, carrying the daypack was easy for him, as I wanted it to be. His daypack, which is the same bag he uses for Kindergarten, is a REI Teton Jr. I tied a bandana between the shoulder straps for use as a Sternum Strap, which he really liked. I plan on getting him a real kid size backpack before our next trip, which I think will be 5 days. Any suggestions on kid's packs? I measured his Torso and it is between 13 and 14 inches. He is very tall for his age. If you go to the Photos and look in Faces/Section Hikers you will see the pictures I posted. Again, his trailname is Skyblue.

Just Jeff
03-29-2005, 08:40
Any suggestions on kid's packs?
www.kidssource.com (http://www.kidssource.com) has a few decent packs if you want to spend some money.

Most kids packs are really made just to pack up so they "feel" like they're going somewhere. They look outdoorsy and are sized right, but weigh way too much for a kid to carry. We don't even use the one my son got for Xmas (external 4 lbs)...he uses a 1.5lbs frameless school pack instead.

If you want to keep his pack weight to 7-10 lbs, a school pack will work fine and you can get them really light for a reasonable price. Call it his "hiking pack" and he'll be just as excited about it, especially when you hype up the lightweight hiking stuff!

Just my opinion...it's worth what you paid for it!

MOWGLI
03-29-2005, 08:41
I carried about 40 lbs and Skyblue carried less than 7 lbs.

Teatime, I enjoyed your photos of your recent rip. Thanks for posting them.

MOWGLI
03-29-2005, 08:47
I'm planning a 70 mile trip with my 15 y.o. daughter this summer. We did a short dayhike at Whitewater Falls in the Nantahala NF on Friday, and she was a bit sore. SHe wasn't carrying a pack, so we have a good bit of work to do bewteen now and August.

The good part is... her attitude was good, and she enjoyed the beauty of the gorge and the Whitwater River. She was somewhat traumatized by my thru-hike 5 years ago. Exactly 5 years ago today I called her from Fontana Village to wish her a happy birthday. Momets ago I woke her up to wish her a happy birthday. Sometimes it's good to be home. Even for folks with wanderlust like me.

tlbj6142
03-29-2005, 09:22
Any suggestions on kid's packs? I measured his Torso and it is between 13 and 14 inches.I highly recomend the Deuter Fox 30 (http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/packdetail.cfm/DEU136)(only $63 at backcountrygear). My 7yo can fit in it (though the hipbelt was a bit too small when she was 6) and the torso is fully adjustable. I can almost wear it (18.5"). In fact, I do wear it on short day-trips from base camp when I hike with my kids.

I'd say the useable range is 12"-17". It weighs 2#. It has a few stupid pockets on it that I wish were not there (two side bellows pockets, and a mock-sleeping bag compartment). But otherwise its a great pack.

And, at 30L (~1800ci) there is no reason you couldn't fit all of "their" gear in the pack.

Hotfoot_1
03-30-2005, 09:12
My son saw photos of a section hike I did with a buddy of mine and began asking questions....at which point I knew he and I would be doing a hike soon. So we built some soda can stoves and experimented with some new designs, which got him really into the concept of "on your own, doing your own thing" and we set out for Amicalola Falls. He was 11 at the time.

Weather was awesome so we needed minimal gear - no sleeping bags, just sleeping pads and bed sheets inside his 5x5 dome tent (yeah, I was cramped). I carried all the "gear" (tent, first aid, water filter, stove, pot, fuel, etc) and he carried water, clothing, and some food in an oversize LL Bean backpack like you'd use for school.

He set the pace. He determined when we'd stop for breaks, where we'd camp, and when we would eat (with prudent guidance, at times). In a sense, then, this became his hike, which made it all the more enjoyable for him.

We ended our hike at Woody Gap after two and a half days of hiking. He really enjoyed it since we took time to take in views, had ample breaks, plenty of water to drink and lots of food to eat.

I believe one of the key items for success with kids is to have a lot of patience. Be flexible. Let them determine the pace and break regimen as much as possible. A long forced march is a sure-fire way to turn a kid off from hiking. You may not think of your hike as such, but try and position yourself in your kids' perspective - because perception is the editor of reality. And if they perceive they're on a long forced march, well, then that's what it is.

Mr. Clean
04-01-2005, 00:09
My 14 month old loves day hikes (he was 8 months old in the Whites last Fall) and I am planning on doing some car camping this summer when he'll be 1 and a half. I'll pick campgrounds with good, short trails nearby. I can't wait. What's the earliest you'd try an overnight? Rattle River shelter is only about a mile from the road in Gorham, NH with a nice river below the shelter - thought this would be a good first overnight for the boy. I'll be dayhiking with him in the pack this year...

StarLyte
04-01-2005, 08:43
My 5-year old son has done numerous day hikes with my wife and I and he really seems to enjoy it. He also loves camping. So, I was thinking it's about time to put the two together and take him on his 1st overnighter on the AT to see how he does. We live near Raleigh, NC so anything in Western NC or Virginia would be okay. Any suggestions or comments from you Dads or Kids out there?

EXCELLENT THREAD HERE -
I'm a grandmother - 4-1/2 & 7 yr. old. I'm breaking those kids in too. I urge you to take them with you as often as possible, ON any trail. Keep this in mind: They will want to play, collect misc. stuff and p/up walking sticks. LET THEM. Children are curious. Kids that young aren't focused on hiking long periods of time, so you might have to stop occasionally--let them!!! My grandaughter's first hike was 4 miles - HER preference too. But along the way, it was necessary to stop once in a while to find that perfect hiking stick, smell flowers, look at creatures. This is part of wildlife education. ENJOY ! :sun

Teatime
04-28-2005, 11:36
I have actually done this loop twice myself and it is one of my favorites. I thought the elevation might be too cold in March though. Skyblue and I are heading out again this weekend and I'm seriously looking at the A.T/Pine Mtn. Tr. loop. I'm watching the weather closely because of possible rain/high winds on Saturday. I thought we might camp on Pine Mtn. not too far away from the Spring. Any comments?
I got Skyblue a Deuter Fox 30 pack and his own Thermarest Ridgerest, Short, sleeping pad (lightweight and kids don't need as much padding as us old folks).

Grayson Highlands at Massie Gap. About 1/2 mile from AT. Camp at Wilburn Ridge or many other places. Only about 2.5 miles from lot to Rhododendron Gap on AT. 1.6 more to Mount Rogers. Could do loop of about 12 miles using AT and Pine Mt. Great for first trip. Ponies, scenery, easy. Less crowded on weekdays. Took our daughter on her first overnighter here. She really enjoyed it. About 3 1/4 or so hours from Triangle area. email or pm if you need info.

tlbj6142
05-01-2005, 16:30
Just arrived back from the Smokies with my two girls (4.5yo and 7.5yo). Planned to do a 3-nighter but had to bail when the youngest started limping (still is and I have no idea why??). Plus the weather just sucked.

Started at Abrams CG hiked to #17 Thursday night. We were the only ones there and didn't see anyone else on the trail. It is a beautiful site, which surprised me as "The Book" makes it seem like it gets quite a bit of use. Guess the pine needles keep it lookin' fresh. Don't under estimate the difficulty of Little Bottoms Trail, its more of a challenge than I expected. Especially for the youngest.

Friday we hiked down Hatcher Mountain Trail and Beard Cane Trail to site #11 (very small site, barely room for 3-4 tents). Again we were the only ones there and didn't see anyone on the trail. The girls played in the Creek for a couple of hours. Those two hours made up for the rainy weather.

It rained quite hard early Saturday morning. It was then that I noticed the limp. So, I told the other folks in our party (my brother and father) that we'll need to make it all the way back to Abrams CG rather than stopping at site #2. When we reached the Cooper Road Trail and Cane Creek Trail junction the yougest was just plane out of gas. No way she'd make it back to the Ranger station.

So, I took the girls up Goldmine Trail, while my brother and father huried back to the car and drove around. About 2.5 hours later we were on our way home. Could have been sooner, but none of the maps we have showed that you can get from Abrams CG up to "Top-O-World" development without going all the way back down to 129.

The girls did have a great time, and I learned a few more things about hiking with them.





I need to make a couple of minor changes to my new home-made 3-person tarp-tent with floor. Its only 25oz before seam sealing. Add in 31g for guylines, couple of ounces for stakes, probably an ounce for sealing and another for the stuff sack and I have nice 3-person tent that weighs less than 2#!:clap
They are just too damn picky when it comes to food. I'll need to be a bit more specific when I plan meals for the next outing. And I don't have to bring as much.
They need larger pads than the ones I brought along. I just order two TorsoLite pads for the girls as I want to keep the bulk to an absolute minimum in case I have to carry everything.
Bring extra socks. What a bad Daddy!:datz I only brought one pair of socks for each of them. They were a bit damp after the second day of rain. They never complained though.
Find some means to cut back on the extra cloths I bring from them. Doubt I can do much, but I need to keep an eye out for good deals at Once Upon a Child, Wal-Mart, Target, etc. to replace a couple of heavy bulky items for the next trip.
Double wrap the Uno cards! Our favorite night time game was ruined when we needed them the second night!:mad:
After switching to the TorsoLites for the girls and a Prolite 3 S for myself, I'll have no problem getting everything for all three of us inside (:)) my Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone for a 3-4 day trip. So, I'll have room-to-spare on weekend trips and when they carry their own stuff.

They usually carry small book bags that hold their toys/paper/crayons/cards, rain jackets, hat, gloves, bowl and cup. But I can, and have, attached their packs to mine when they no longer want to carry their own.

SGT Rock
05-01-2005, 17:12
From my experience:

Food: Just ask them what they would like to have from some choices you would prefer they eat. Luckily my boys LOVE mac-n-cheese, ramen, jerky, breakfast bars, and hot chocolate. Knowing that, I keep a box of food (like a hiker box) in the garage and let them pick their own meals. This eliminates complaints about dinner on the trail.

Clothing: I make a list of what they can carry and then help them pack the stuff up. Put socks on the list. This also eliminates them packing extra stuff. It has gotten pretty good for me since after a few trips they know what to look for in their dressers before I tell them. BUT, it often takes them 2 or 3 looks to find it since they aren't that organized when they put thier clothing away after the hike.

I would have them eliminate the toys, crayons, etc. they are used to having. It has been my experience that they will play with sticks, rocks, trash, creeks, pine cones, or anything that is available once their imaginations take over in the back country.

tlbj6142
05-01-2005, 21:39
Clothing: I make a list of what they can carry and then help them pack the stuff up. The biggest problem for me is finding clothing in the stores for my children. They have nothing in their regular wardrobe that can be used in the backcountry except for fleece hat/gloves, and sometimes an old pair of tights to use a sleepwear/thermals. As such, I spend quite a bit of time before each trip looking for pants, shirts, boots, sandals, insulation layers, etc. And to make maters worst, it is virtually impossible to find stuff for girls. So, I end up having to buy boy stuff for them. This isn't much of an issue for the oldest, but the younger daughter is quite a bit more girly.

I typically have to buy 3-6 new items before each trip. On this trip I needed to buy new pants, boots and a fleece for the 7yo. For the 4yo I needed to buy new sandals, fleece, SS shirt and rain gear.

I found $4 zip-off pants (I thought these would be an easy find, but they were the hardest item to locate) at Once Upon a Child (2nd hand store where I get 60% of their backpacking clothing), and $6 boots from Marshall's (close-out store).

After 3-5 trips to 2 different OUaC stores the week before the trip, I finally found a good long rain jacket ($6) for the 4yo, found $4 sandals (I wanted them with full straps so they wouldn't fall off in the water) at Wal-Mart, and bought a new SS shirt ($7) from another Wal-Mart (the local one didn't stock this item) in the Danskin section.

I got lucky and found $6 fleeces on clearance at Gander Mountain for both girls. Of course the 7yo left her's in the bathroom in a Wendy's in KY on the drive down. So, we had to spend more than an hour looking for one in Maryville. This just isn't the time of the year to find a fleece. No one has them in stock. When I asked the folks at Wal-Mart if they knew of a second hand store (they always have fleeces!) near-by they looked at me like I was an idiot. An hour later we drove by a Goodwill that was less than 0.5 from the Wal-Mart! Of course that was after I bought a $12 fleece line jacket from K-Mart.

Here is what I bring for each kid:





Fleece hat/gloves
Synthetic SS shirt (you can usally find these for cheap at Wal-Mart). They rarely show up at close-out or second hand stores.
Synthetic LS shirt. As a thermal layer and/or for bedtime. For girls, dance leotards are a perfect match. And can be found for $1-$3 at second hand stores. For boys, maybe PJs tops???
2 pair of Nylon pants (maybe zip-offs). These are almost impossible to find for young children. And, if you do, they are usually lined with cotton! Since they don't have rain pants, I bring another pair in case they get the first pair completely soaked, or fall into a stream, etc. Once they are a bit older, I'll probably bring one pair and make them tough it out if they get them soaked.:D
Thermal pants. Again, for girls, tights and/or dance leggings work fine. And you can find them for $1-$2 a pair at second hand stores. Not sure what I'll do when my son is old enough. As most children size long-johns are 50/50. Sometimes PJ bottoms are synthetic?!!?!
Rain Jacket. I like to get them long, unlined parka length version. I have been lucky with these. I've been able to find these at second hand stores. I know many folks go with ponchos, but I can't find one small enough for young children. Once they get a bit older, or bigger, I'll do the poncho thing.
Fleece top. These can be found at most second had stores. And occasionally in girl colors.
Boots. I've always been able to find barely used, if not new, boots for less than $7/pair at second hand or close-out stores. I put a few coatings of water resistent spray on them to help. Though I'm not sure it does. But it makes me feel better.
Sandals. My kids like to play in creeks, etc. So, I always bring full strap sandals. I always think the "water shoe" style would fall off too easily.
Underwear. 2 pair. Cotton. Can't find synthetic for young children.
Socks. I have a pair of SmartWools for each of them, but I guess I need to get another pair.:)

I would have them eliminate the toys, crayons, etc. they are used to having. It has been my experience that they will play with sticks, rocks, trash, creeks, pine cones, or anything that is available once their imaginations take over in the back country.This is really more of an age issue. My girls are still quite young, so I let them bring one security item (plushy, blacket). They both brought about 8 crayons and a 3"x5" notepad and a small book. I read the books to them every night and during several breaks. They both used their crayons/paper when we were trapped inside our tents in the early evening rain. And, I have found they need something to do in the tent to help them settle down before bedtime. Reading a book, drawing pictures (both girls like to do this) of stuff they did during the day, etc. helps quite a bit.

Now if the qirls were 14yo and 11yo, I doubt I'd need bring these "toys" along.

Scrunchy
05-01-2005, 22:12
I too was on the Gold Mine Trail yesterday afternoon, doing some scouting, but only ran into one person. I was really surprised I met anyone at all on that trail, especially this time of year. I had the same problem as you...trying to connect Top of the World to Abrams Ranger Station. I think it can be done on the Happy Valley Road, but I wasn't successful finding the link :-( although I drove around awhile trying. Sorry your little one is limping, hopefully she'll recover soon. Kids are usually so resilient! Oh, I agree with you on the Little Bottoms Trail! That thing is a bear.

SGT Rock
05-01-2005, 22:20
I haven't looked for that link to the Top of the World yet. Since you have done it from the back side, where did you come out?

tlbj6142
05-02-2005, 09:28
I haven't looked for that link to the Top of the World yet. Since you have done it from the back side, where did you come out?Flats Rd (the main road through Top-O-World) connects to Happy Valley just east of the Foothill Parkway underpass. Take Flats a couple of miles 'till you reach Joroulman Dr on your right. Park behind the "Park Line Estates(??)" sign. Walk the 0.25 miles up Joroulman Dr and down Steffner Cir. To reach the park boundry and the "beginning" of the Goldmine Trail, you need to walk 200 yds down a forest road/path that starts on the right side of the road at the first hard bend at the bottom of the little hill on Steffner Cir. On this access path, you'll hike past a semi-abandoned metal roofed barn. The sign for the Goldmine Trail is just past the barn. There isn't any other way to know you've just cross into the park besides the sign.

North side of this (http://maps.msn.com/%28ve2t4qunfuphd055l1etsw55%29/map.aspx?&lats1=35.64553&lons1=-83.90965&alts1=7&regn1=0&name=Trailhead%20Parking) intersection is the trailhead parking.
Trailhead (http://maps.msn.com/%28ve2t4qunfuphd055l1etsw55%29/map.aspx?&lats1=35.64476&lons1=-83.90840&alts1=7&regn1=0&name=Goldmine%20Trailhead)
Turn-off to Top-O-World (http://maps.msn.com/%28ve2t4qunfuphd055l1etsw55%29/map.aspx?&lats1=35.62921&lons1=-83.94163&alts1=7&regn1=0&name=Turn-off%20To%20Top-O-World)

SGT Rock
05-02-2005, 09:43
I'll check it out when I get back to Tennessee. I have driven in that part of Top of the World a few times and didn't know which side road up there to go down. Maybe I should post a strip map in the pictures section. There is also a VERY cool trail head that gets you into the Scott Mountain area of Cades Cove through Townsend that isn't shown on a map that I could find. I found it hiking the trails up there. A two car parking area with picnic table across the street from someone's small cabin. I talked to the guy that lived there and he said it rarely gets used.

tlbj6142
05-02-2005, 10:28
Sorry your little one is limping, hopefully she'll recover soon. Kids are usually so resilient!After talking to a co-worker whose son had a similar condition (nothing external appears to be wrong, but they limp) said his doctor told him it was a bone spur? Ankle spur? Heel spur? Took about 6 months to heal.

She has a dance recital in 2 weeks, so I hope she works through it a bit faster.

SGT Rock
05-02-2005, 10:33
It probably isn't that with your child. Kids are pretty flexible and I doubt someone that young got one that quickly. Probably just a strained tendon or muscle. I would just recommend that you keep your kids packs as light as possible, their foot-ware as cushioned and flexible as possible (heavy boots are probably a bad idea), and plan short, slow trips until they get used to walking like that.

tlbj6142
05-02-2005, 13:23
It probably isn't that with your child. Kids are pretty flexible and I doubt someone that young got one that quickly.I did a bit more research using Dr. Google and realized that it isn't a Heel Spur (http://heelspurs.com/index.html) (aka plantar fasciitis) as they don't typically occur in young childern. However, there is a similar condition called Sever's Disease (http://www.scoi.com/sevier.htm). Though more of a heel than an arch thing that occurs to due overuse. That seems to be more likely.

Either way it seems like stretching is the answer.