View Full Version : Why, oh why.... Speed Record
Very serious question....... Over the last couple of years there have some of the most ridiculous announcements of speed records of various long trails. Who can forget the grand daddy of them all - The Initiative. But there was also the Navy Seal, Matt Huffman who remains MIA, Sam Fox (who may have the horsepower but lacked the experience) and others. There have been a couple recently that I can't really determine if they are a joke to see the reaction or whether they are so delusional that they believe they can get off their couch and break a record held by world class athletes. Normally, I am the first to defend those that want to push the envelop AND are willing to do the preparations to have a fighting chance to deliver on the announcement but few of these fall into the category of serious. (Natureboy, JPD and Scott Williamson were the exceptions.) Now the question...
Are these seeming delusional announcements:
a) A chance to get 30 seconds of fame with no real expectation of success.
b) A complete and innocent misunderstanding of what is involved in a record thru hike.
c) Your opportunity to explain this bizarre behavior.
Are these seeming delusional announcements:
a) A chance to get 30 seconds of fame with no real expectation of success.
b) A complete and innocent misunderstanding of what is involved in a record thru hike.
c) Your opportunity to explain this bizarre behavior.
I'd say a lot of B. Just no idea how difficult the grades and nearly constant ups and downs can be.
I had just gotten out of the Marine Corps, from a pretty high intensity unit, when I began my thru-hike. I averaged about 15 MPD at the start, which most folks thought was pretty crazy. I had expected that mileage to be mellow and easy. It was perfectly doable, but was much tougher than I'd expected after coming from the mostly flat Carolina coast.
I imagine there are folks who can run a marathon comfortably expect that 26 miles of the AT will much the same. Unfortunately, it's not even close.
Captain Blue
11-13-2011, 23:39
My answer is A & B.
stranger
11-14-2011, 02:47
I believe it's a touch of A, in the internet age anyone can get 'press' simply by coming on here and posting. But mainly I believe it's B. The reason I say this is because of how incredibly huge the gap is between what people say they are going to do, and what they actually end up doing. I see these guys saying "I'm going to do this, that, other thing" then it comes out they have no real experience, and have not demonstrated that they can walk continously for hundres of miles, let alone thousands. Take the Initiative...cause it was probably the most significant joke in this category. An unknown and unproven person 'wanted' to hike 12,500 miles in 365 days, if he had done his homework he would have seen that NO ONE has every done that before, not even close. Not Skurka, Williamson, The Onion, Trauma, Robinson... The next closest thing to the Initiative would have to be Trauma's 10,000 mile hike years ago, where he hiked for 356 days and 'only' averaged 28 miles per day. There simply must be a complete lack of understanding of what it's like to hike long-distances, because Sam Gardner said he was going to average 34 miles per day, for 365 days straight...then in practice lasts two months, alot of that in motels, is hiking 7-10 mile days, and never gets out of New York. How does that happen? It's almost unbelievable.
hikerboy57
11-14-2011, 11:06
I cant take anyone who hasnt yet thru hiked the AT(or any othr LD trail) very seriously when it comes to these "attempts"yes, will and determination are probably the two biggest factors in completing any AT attempt. but these guys have no idea what theyre in for until theyre out there doing it.still waiting for mr huffmans first trip report.or last one.whatever.
Probably some very good athletes doing some math at home and saying to themselves, "why not? I can do that!" Then, they get on the trail and realize the math doesn't add up.
Tom Murphy
11-14-2011, 11:59
I am guilty of this most everytime I plan a backpacking trip.
I look at the topos and imagine long days filled with lots of miles and lots of elevation changes. Then I go out for 2-3 days averaging less than 10 miles per day with many more hours spent stopped than actually moving.
I try to accept that I am a really a camper and not a hiker.
But then I look at the topos again and it starts all over again.
Tom Murphy
11-14-2011, 12:08
[thread drift]
I think the fastest known time for a supported hike of the AT will not improve very much going forward. Jenn had a a very smart support team approach that took most of the "slack" out of the aspect of the record. Others may be able to improve the FKT based on their stamina and conditioning but I don't think there is much time to be gained from "better support".
[/thread drift]
jersey joe
11-14-2011, 12:17
I am guilty of this most everytime I plan a backpacking trip.
I look at the topos and imagine long days filled with lots of miles and lots of elevation changes. Then I go out for 2-3 days averaging less than 10 miles per day with many more hours spent stopped than actually moving.
I try to accept that I am a really a camper and not a hiker.
But then I look at the topos again and it starts all over again.
Yeah, I do this a lot too. Plan out a grand trip and realize once I'm out there that I'm in for more than I bargained for. Our eyes are bigger than our legs.
I don't mind seeing people go for a record on the AT. They make our radar because we are on whiteblaze, but for the most part, they go un-noticed by the general public.
Slo-go'en
11-14-2011, 13:22
I don't mind seeing people go for a record on the AT. They make our radar because we are on whiteblaze, but for the most part, they go un-noticed by the general public.
They do give us something to talk about.
I for one was quite surprised that Sam Fox (of run while you can) actually completed his thru-run of the PCT. With his inexperience, I really didn't expect him to get out of Washington. The only trouble with his whole thing was you never heard what was going on from his point of view, only from his silly hyperbolic babysitters who blew it all up into some kind of epic of pain and suffering and taking care of a hopeless, running-addicted man-child. Anyway, I think it's a whole lot of B with A forefront in the person's mind. Heck, half the people doing thru-hikes and not even attempting records these days all seem to be doing it to raise money and try to get sponsors and all that, as if what they are doing is so amazing and newsworthy how can people not rush in with money and support? Sheesh. You're all just ordinary thru-hikers enjoying a long hiatus from boring workaday life like the rest of us. Get a grip on yourselves.
XCskiNYC
11-14-2011, 14:05
I did that running thing too, figured conservatively I'd do 20 miles a day, probably more. Then came the first ascent with a 40lb pack.
One guy who announced his record intentions was Carlos Goldberg (Galilee Man) from Israel. He nearly beat the record, amazing for a hiker on his first AT attempt.
Every once in a while there is a story worth following. Here is his Trailjournal:
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=308189
Odd Man Out
11-14-2011, 15:56
One guy who announced his record intentions was Carlos Goldberg (Galilee Man) from Israel. He nearly beat the record, amazing for a hiker on his first AT attempt.
Yes, and to his credit, he didn't call a press conference in advance, claim he was going to "shatter" the old record, or do something unprecedented. Also, the record didn't seem to be the primary justification for the hike. From his final entries you can see that his failure to break the record had nothing to do with his overall view of success and accomplishment. +1
I think the phenomenon may have something to do with the AT's long-time mythology as a life-changing accomplishment. A lot of tales of successful AT hikes are comin-of-age stories, sort of like Zane Gray novels. City boy conquers the wilderness. Ordinary person does something extraordinary--that is the narrative of most AT stories. Of course enough people have already "conquered" the AT, including old people, blind people, one-legged people, and so on, that diseased minds in search of glory take hold of the idea that they will do it in a way much more special than anyone has before. The less one knows about the AT, and the less experience one has with long-distance hiking, the more feasible such a plan seems. That's the only reason I can think of that people cook up these silly plans, and that gullible reporters give them coverage. If the same person announced that he was going to run a 3-minute mile, I doubt he could get anyone to grant him an interview.
Speer Carrier
11-14-2011, 18:07
One guy who announced his record intentions was Carlos Goldberg (Galilee Man) from Israel. He nearly beat the record, amazing for a hiker on his first AT attempt.
Every once in a while there is a story worth following. Here is his Trailjournal:
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=308189
I was going to mention him as well. A friend of mine hiked with him briefly in New York. Apparently, they were in the same shelter one night, then the next day they both started out at about the same time. Of course Galilee Man leaves my friend in the dust. About noon, my friend sees G.M. coming toward him. He had gotten turned around and hiked several miles in the wrong direction. He also got sick for a few days as I recall. I always thought that if he had been better prepared with a plan he might have done it. Physically, and mentally I think he had the right stuff.
The Walker
11-14-2011, 22:33
One guy who announced his record intentions was Carlos Goldberg (Galilee Man) from Israel. He nearly beat the record, amazing for a hiker on his first AT attempt.
Every once in a while there is a story worth following. Here is his Trailjournal:
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=308189
I took a peek at his journal and it looks like he had some strategic issues in the beginning. That 49 mile day first day on May 7 backfired with the next 9 days being all in the 20's. He looked like he kept right around record pace for the last half of the journey. He might break the record if he ever made another attempt. Of course, good to excellent weather would help.
I think Ward had some wiring issues that gave him some special benefits for long distance hiking.
Slo-go'en
11-14-2011, 23:12
I think Ward had some wiring issues that gave him some special benefits for long distance hiking.
Ward's "wiring issues" had more to do with dealing with people. I suppose that helped in that he didn't get to spend much time in town so he spent it all on the trail. What no doubt helped him in long distance hiking was his long legs. By the time he set the unsupported speed record, he had done the trail a whole bunch of times and for all practical purposes was a professional hiker at that point. That's why his record is so hard to beat - especially by those who haven't yet done the trail once.
Big Dawg
11-15-2011, 03:01
D. They stumble across Andrew Skurka's website, and become delusional.
stranger
11-15-2011, 03:32
I took a peek at his journal and it looks like he had some strategic issues in the beginning. That 49 mile day first day on May 7 backfired with the next 9 days being all in the 20's. He looked like he kept right around record pace for the last half of the journey. He might break the record if he ever made another attempt. Of course, good to excellent weather would help.
I think Ward had some wiring issues that gave him some special benefits for long distance hiking.
I think it's easy to dismiss Ward as people generally fear mental illness. If Ward had an advantage or two from his illness, he was no doubt disadvantaged 10 fold. Make no mistake about it, Ward faced far more difficulties on the trail than someone like Jennifer Pharr Davis will ever have to. His record has stood since 1990, his 3 hikes in one year still stands as well. Ward Leonard holds the unsupported record because he is argubly the greatest natural hikes the AT community has ever seen, and I feel priviledged to have met him. 36 miles a day, in 1990, before silnylon and cuber fiber, before 24 ounce tents, before trail runners...think about it. Also it needs to be mentioned that NO ONE has ever 'averaged' 36 miles per day for longer than 45 days that I know about, Skurka came close on his Great Western Loop, but not quite. Skurka did manage to average 38 per day on the PCT, but for 45 days. Ward Leonard deserves much credit, especially back in 1990.
stranger
11-15-2011, 03:32
I took a peek at his journal and it looks like he had some strategic issues in the beginning. That 49 mile day first day on May 7 backfired with the next 9 days being all in the 20's. He looked like he kept right around record pace for the last half of the journey. He might break the record if he ever made another attempt. Of course, good to excellent weather would help.
I think Ward had some wiring issues that gave him some special benefits for long distance hiking.
I think it's easy to dismiss Ward as people generally fear mental illness. If Ward had an advantage or two from his illness, he was no doubt disadvantaged 10 fold. Make no mistake about it, Ward faced far more difficulties on the trail than someone like Jennifer Pharr Davis will ever have to. His record has stood since 1990, his 3 hikes in one year still stands as well. Ward Leonard holds the unsupported record because he is argubly the greatest natural hikes the AT community has ever seen, and I feel priviledged to have met him. 36 miles a day, in 1990, before silnylon and cuber fiber, before 24 ounce tents, before trail runners...think about it. Also it needs to be mentioned that NO ONE has ever 'averaged' 36 miles per day for longer than 45 days that I know about, Skurka came close on his Great Western Loop, but not quite. Skurka did manage to average 38 per day on the PCT, but for 45 days. Ward Leonard deserves much credit, especially back in 1990.
CrumbSnatcher
11-15-2011, 09:25
i was following g-mans hike,keeping a record of his attempt. he was starting to get way behind, and then up in new england he stopped posting as much and his mileage went way up!
backtracker2
11-15-2011, 09:32
I would have to say B, with a touch of A in there
I think another reason Ward is often dismissed is because he is pre-2000. Before the days of Social networking, instant press releases, an audience that actively follows these treks almost instantly, etc etc.
Basically, it was pre wide spread Internet use. Not as much publicity. The hikers who did these attempts pre-2000 were a different era and not as well known. OTher than Dave Horton and Maine-iac (sp?), I can't think of any other well known pre-2000 record attempts.
Ward hiked, did it efficiently and did it for himself it seems.
Lone Wolf
11-15-2011, 12:22
OTher than Dave Horton and Maine-iac (sp?), I can't think of any other well known pre-2000 record attempts.
Pete Palmer, Andy Thompson
did it for himself it seems.
There are many people who do it for themselves and never gain any publicity. Anyone who breaks some record for long distance hiking actually has no idea if they really broke it because of all the stealth record-breakers out there.
bamboo bob
11-15-2011, 12:49
I never understood the LIFE CHANGING thing at all. Yes it is the biggest thing you have ever done IF YOU ARE 22. And I love that I've accumulated all my miles but really, the biggest thing? Kids, wives, homes, career, and 62 years of various experiences that my AT or PCT thruhikes complement but could never surpass. I may do my third AT thruhike in 2012 but I don't expect much life changing to be going on except maybe to my older body :)
bamboo bob
11-15-2011, 12:52
Also I really do dislike making back packing into a competitive sport. I think it's pushed by retailers and gear people who want to expand the market for "fast packing". There's a marketing term invention. "one more hill before I take a break" is all the competition I want.
Pete Palmer was May 1999...
Wasn't Andrew Thompson was 1998
just barely. :) But yeah...
Original point still stands I think.
The fact we had to scratch our heads and think of some examples vs the current state says something.
There are many people who do it for themselves and never gain any publicity. Anyone who breaks some record for long distance hiking actually has no idea if they really broke it because of all the stealth record-breakers out there.
True...but a LOT more people publicly going for records vs pre-2000 as well.
stranger
11-15-2011, 17:12
I agree Mags, Ward hikes in a time when the only people who would have met him had to be hiking themselves...where as today you can simply hear about everything online and not actually have to go hiking. Also, my earlier post was incorrect...Scott Williamson has averaged over 36 miles per day, for more than 60 days...on the PCT however. I don't know of anyone else who has been able to do that...unsupported (self-supported, whatever)
jersey joe
11-15-2011, 18:57
The only reason you hear about these speed hikes nowadays is because of the internet. Pre 2000, there was no internet and thus, no way to get the word out.
The only reason you hear about these speed hikes nowadays is because of the internet. Pre 2000, there was no internet and thus, no way to get the word out.
Kind of feeds upon itself, too. THe more publicity for a record attempt, the more people want do it for a record..etc.
Other than obscure mailing lists (like the Ultra run mailing list that's still around and the AT,PCT,CDT-L lists also still around) there was no real way of getting the news out widely to the community.
(Think you meant WWW? USENET and mailing lists have been around and used widely for a while. Admittedly not as much as WWW though! :) )
Plus, as Stranger said, back in pre-2000 (+/- Just a nice figure that seems to work) even these mailing lists catered to people actually hiking or trail running.
Today? Much easier to hype up and follow these attempts.
Ward and other attempts were from a different time and place.
I never understood the LIFE CHANGING thing at all. Yes it is the biggest thing you have ever done IF YOU ARE 22
It was for me at 24.
If I had not done the AT, I'd probably have never left RI, moved to Colorado and have had everything else that has happened to me since that time. Hiking the AT lead directly to making the outdoors a large part what is important in my life.
stranger
11-21-2011, 02:39
I was going to mention him as well. A friend of mine hiked with him briefly in New York. Apparently, they were in the same shelter one night, then the next day they both started out at about the same time. Of course Galilee Man leaves my friend in the dust. About noon, my friend sees G.M. coming toward him. He had gotten turned around and hiked several miles in the wrong direction. He also got sick for a few days as I recall. I always thought that if he had been better prepared with a plan he might have done it. Physically, and mentally I think he had the right stuff.
Had the right stuff? You betcha...65 days, amazing!
How many of these speed hikes are sponsored?
As to Sam Fox, I agree that he may have the physical abilities to set a record someday. Unfortunately he was unfamiliar physically and intellectually with what a hike of this magnitude entailed. First problem is that he started too late in the season, although the start date might have worked out if he was on the record pace he hoped for. Early in the hike he pushed way too hard, and his mileage for a long time suffered because of it. Having met him briefly, I know that he's not intimately familiar with the trail. That makes a big difference in ways that only a long distance hiker can understand. At some point he stopped running and started walking. That was smart. The walking pace of the current record holder isn't all that fast, and walking a little faster is a lot easier on the body than running. Hopefully he spends the next few years becoming very acquainted with the trail and gives the record another shot.
I bet Sam's problems are experienced by many record breaking hopefuls. They think that because they're great athletes, that their physical prowess will make up for their lack of experience and knowledge. They think that because they can produce awesome results in infrequent short bursts, that their body will hold up to long term abuse. That's just not the case. It takes the mind and body a long time to prepare for a long fast hike.
Now I know I'm not an elite athlete. I'm nowhere near it. I've learned the hard way that it's going to take me years to attain my goal of being to be able to comfortably hike 20 miles in 6 hours including breaks, and to easily do 30+ miles if I cared to take advantage of all the daylight hours. I don't even want to train long and hard enough to break a record.
Cookerhiker
11-21-2011, 10:36
I think another reason Ward is often dismissed is because he is pre-2000. Before the days of Social networking, instant press releases, an audience that actively follows these treks almost instantly, etc etc.
Basically, it was pre wide spread Internet use. Not as much publicity. The hikers who did these attempts pre-2000 were a different era and not as well known. OTher than Dave Horton and Maine-iac (sp?), I can't think of any other well known pre-2000 record attempts.
Ward hiked, did it efficiently and did it for himself it seems.
Pete Palmer, Andy Thompson
The only reason you hear about these speed hikes nowadays is because of the internet. Pre 2000, there was no internet and thus, no way to get the word out.
Branley Owen - 72 days in 1970. Was it a "record attempt?" I doubt anyone conceived of speed records at that time since heretofor only a handful had thruhiked the trail. Was it a "record?" - I guess it was at the time.
Both A & B. I think the 30 seconds of fame portion of A is a driving motivator behind these proclamations, but the lack of success comes from B.
Aquonehostel
10-21-2012, 14:34
A great read thanks Jeff
I would be more impressed by the record for the slowest thru hike.
A great mountaineer, Alex Lowe (he was often called the "best") once said "the best ----- is the one having the most fun".
The fastest people are too busy grimacing to have fun.
It seems to me that the place to start before announcing you're going to attempt to break a record would be to have a look at what the *current* record is.
If the current record is 90 days the odds of a person doing it in 45 is about 0%. I'd shoot for 89 days if the record was 90 and be happy if I came in below 89.
Anyone can break a long distance speed record, you just gotta take your time and break it up into smaller pieces.
I'm currently working on a 2 hour marathon. Just 420 17 second 100m wind sprints to go. I use a running start.
The only reason you hear about these speed hikes nowadays is because of the internet. Pre 2000, there was no internet and thus, no way to get the word out.
There were magazines before electronic media. Remember those? :)
Actually these pre-2000 folks would write up a story and send it in to a magazine publisher. There was a black and white publication that came out many years ago called Ultrarunning magazine. It had a pretty small circulation, more so in Western States. Today it is still a somewhat specialty magazine but in color and with more stories about ultrarunning events. Previously, the material was mostly individual stories for those that wanted to share what they did. It was more fascinating to read because most people were astonished that these activities could even be done. Another, somewhat later, publication was Marathon and Beyond.
Actually, this trail ultrarunning sport became more prevalent on the West Coast (in the 1970's) than it did in the East. Horton, and a few others who were very familiar with the AT really brought the speed challenges to light in the East.
The Solemates
12-13-2012, 10:44
I am guilty of this most everytime I plan a backpacking trip.
I look at the topos and imagine long days filled with lots of miles and lots of elevation changes. Then I go out for 2-3 days averaging less than 10 miles per day with many more hours spent stopped than actually moving.
I try to accept that I am a really a camper and not a hiker.
But then I look at the topos again and it starts all over again.
It depends on the trip and its intended purpose, but I often suffer from the opposite. I look at topos and say "look I can stop here" or "I can take this side trail to this neat view" or "I can spend a 2 hour lunch in the sun at this vista" etc, but when i get on the trail I tend to plod on for more miles than I should.
When someone with little or no long distance hiking experience claims they are going to break the world record, there are plenty of people who are willing to encourage the effort, no matter how delusional. Someone (or many) will inevitably say "ignore the naysayers." They point out other people who have accomplished great things against the odds. "I will be thrilled to meet you when you breeze past me" someone will say. Newspapers or even magazines will run stories that take the effort seriously. Feels pretty good to get treated like world class athlete for a while. Probably feels pretty bad to fall flat on your face after making outrageous claims.
I think it is doing a disservice to blindly encourage people who have totally unrealistic hopes based on profound ignorance of what they are hoping to do.
MDSection12
12-13-2012, 15:44
If/when I finally make my attempt I'm going to contact all my local newspapers (and make a thread here) declaring that I am going for a record breaking attempt on the AT; first time anyone with my exact genetic make-up has done the trail! :p
Odd Man Out
12-13-2012, 17:14
Whoever has the most fun wins!
I am accepting donations for my 424 x 100m 2 hour marathon attempt.
It might take awhile, so keep them donations coming.
Please, no criticism.
kayak karl
12-13-2012, 19:18
yep D. i think most are just D's
One guy who announced his record intentions was Carlos Goldberg (Galilee Man) from Israel. He nearly beat the record, amazing for a hiker on his first AT attempt.
Every once in a while there is a story worth following. Here is his Trailjournal:
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=308189
The Jewish Week magazine (http://www.thejewishweek.com/features/lens/marathon_meshuganehs) had an hilarious article about Galilee Man that is referenced in his Trail Journal... I can't resist "quoting" it here
Goldberg (aka “Galilee man”), who carried an Israeli flag he waved at the beginning and end of his trek, and a backpack with the Golani emblem sewed on the side, set out to break a 20-year-old record: running the distance in under 60.5 days.
Yes, running the Appalachian Trail.
People who complete the entire distance in a single season are known as “thru-hikers.” Those who do it in a series of separate trips are “section-hikers.”
People who run the whole way are known as meshugena.
“Americans thought mostly that it was admirable,” Goldberg, 56, tells The Jewish Week in an email interview. “Back home,” he says, they think he’s “a fruitcake.”
People who run the whole way are known as meshugena.
Yiddish has got to be one of the best languages for one-off colorful words to throw into English.
Best description yet. :)