Strongest AT Record Contender?

[The Walker]

1. Andrew Thompson
2. Jonathan Basham
3. Ted "Cave Dog" Keizer
4. Flyin' Brian Robinson
5. Andrew Skurka
6. Scott Williamson
7. Brett Maune
8. Michael Popov
9. Kilian Jornet
10. Paul Pomeroy
11. Karl Metzger
12. Baltimore Jack
13. Scott "Maineak" Grierson
14. David Horton
15. Lone Wolf

[Tom Murphy]

supported? unsupported? Are any of these people considering it?

If Karl or Andrew were as smart about their support team logitistics and approach [long hours walking vs shorter hours running ]Jenn was I wouldn't be surprised.

[Bearpaw]

I'd be interested in seeing how Karl Metzger does on a future attempt. He knows what he is up against. And I imagine he can put together a powerful crew for support. I'd say he has a reasonable shot at setting a new record if he chooses to go for it.

Doesn't change the fact that Jen combined great planning, tremendous mental and physical endurance, outstanding support, and some good luck to make it happen this year. It will take the same (only moreso) to beat the current record.

[Lone Wolf]

15. Lone Wolf

[Sarcasm the elf]

Dude, none of 'em! I'm totally the best hiker on the A.T. :D

GNAR!:rolleyes:

[ChinMusic]

Baltimore Jack: The dude can bench 315

[The Walker]

I am throwing Matt Kirk into the mix.

[The Walker]

I'm going to narrow the field down to those who I think might conceivably attempt to break the record in 2012:

1. Karl Metzger
2. Andrew Thompson
3. Jonathan Basham
4. Matt Kirk
5. Flyin' Brian Robinson
6. Ted " Cave Dog" Keizer
7. Brett Maune
8. Andrew Skurka

Jonathan Basham seems to me to be a real good candidate since he has the Long Trail record, one of the few to ever finish the Barkley, and was a support team member for Andrew Thompson on all 3 of his speed hikes. Being 34-35 years old, it seems he would be in his prime for such an attempt.

[Mr. Clean]

Who does have the fastest unsupported thru now? Still Ward, or Jenn?

[The Walker]

Who does have the fastest unsupported thru now? Still Ward, or Jenn?

Ward: 60.5 days ( back in the days before watches so guesstimates like half a day )

[Lone Wolf]

Ward...........

[Lion King]

I can do it in like 3 days....

[Del Q]

Nature Boy

[ChinMusic]

Wild Cowboy

[Violent Green]

I think Skurka would have a very good shot at the unsupported record. He has shown the ability to carry significant weight while still throwing down 30+ miles for many days. Has the mental fortitude to do it, plus has experience on the AT. I don't recognize a lot of the names up there so no disrespect meant to any others.

Ryan

[Wolf - 23000]

Baltimore Jack: The dude can bench 315

Yes he can. 1 beer at a time. :)

Wolf

[WingedMonkey]

There is no record.

[Lone Wolf]

There is no record.right :rolleyes:............

[jersey joe]

Karl has a really good chance to break the record if he goes for it this year...any word on if he is or isn't trying for the record again this year?

[Lone Wolf]

Karl has a really good chance to break the record if he goes for it this year...any word on if he is or isn't trying for the record again this year?rumor has it......

[map man]

I believe that if Scott Williamson or Andrew Skurka ever made it a priority they have the ability and experience to have a chance to break Ward Leonard's "self supported" record of 60.5 days. The most remarkable things they are known for involves carrying a pack while doing amazing things, rather than going the "supported" route, so their chances at Leonard's record are easier to gauge than their chances at Pharr Davis's record. I have no idea how likely it is that either will ever decide to try it.

From what I read, there is some chance Karl Meltzer (note the spelling -- it's not "Metzger") will take a shot at the supported record soon. If he does it will be interesting to see if this time around he does less running and instead pursues a strategy more similar to Pharr Davis's.

I think what Scott Williamson has done on the PCT is amazing. To take 64 days to complete it in a high snow year, without support and without getting into a motor vehicle to speed up (and make easier) resupplies, just impresses me no end. Hiking "Scott Williamson style" has an appeal to me. Not the speed -- I could never do anything close to that -- but resupplying without motor vehicle assist. It seeems like on my two week backpacking trips (the most days on trail for me as yet) getting into a vehicle always feels like it's taking me out of the experience. I think it might be fun and challenging to try to work the logistics of a long hike, limiting myself to doing all my resupplies by walking.

Note that these are all arm chair observations. I have no real world experience with speed hikes. And my track record with speed hike predictions -- I estimated before she started that JPD's likely time on the AT this year was going to be a good week more than what she then did it in:rolleyes: -- have not been so hot.

[stranger]

I agree Map Man...however I seriously doubt either of them would want anything to do with the AT these days. I personally think both of them have already done much more impressive hikes than breaking the unsupported AT record. So there would be little motivation for such a trip. Both have average over 36 miles per day in the past for sustained periods of time. As for the no vehicle thing...I don't get it, perhaps it's Williamson trying to keep things interesting, after 13-14 PCT thru-hikes I guess one needs to keep things fresh and new.

[CrumbSnatcher]

IMO the unsupported record of the AT is one of the more impressive records going!

[stranger]

I agree the unsupported record is impressive, and for me...for the AT...it's the record to beat. That wasn't my point. My point is that both Williamson and Skurka have surpased that record in terms of difficulty, time and distance (relatively speaking), meaning if they decided to break it, and that's all it would require (for them to decide to do it, then do it) it wouldn't be as impressive as their current accomplishments. Not because breaking the record isn't impressive, but because of who they are as athletes. If I broke the record, it would be huge...because I am not that accomplished.

[CrumbSnatcher]

i get what your saying,but its not as easy as (decide to do it, then do it), for anyone. the terrain might whoop thier butt :-), won't knows til they try.
i heards 15 miles on the AT is like 30+ on the PCT.

[Mags]

i g
i heards 15 miles on the AT is like 30+ on the PCT.

Bit of an exaggeration. :)

I think most people find the AT to be difficult because it is their first hike. The gear is typically heavier, the hiker is not as in trail shape, and the hiker is not as experienced.

When I did the BMT with its grades supposedly more difficult than the nearby AT, I was doing 25 MPD in late February. I am not exactly a hard core athlete either. :)

[Malto]

i get what your saying,but its not as easy as (decide to do it, then do it), for anyone. the terrain might whoop thier butt :-), won't knows til they try.
i heards 15 miles on the AT is like 30+ on the PCT.

No way!!!! Mile for mile the AT may be more difficult but no way it is twice as bad. Most of my AT hiking has been in NC and GA and I can do equal days on that section of the AT or most of the PCT.

I actually think of the four records, AT, PCT both supported and unsupported that the AT unsupported record would be the highest probability record to beat. I believe the AT supported record would be the hardest. Why? I don't think supported on the PCT gains much over an unsupported attempt since there are long distances that a support operation would get complex and difficult. The unsupported PCT record has too many variables such as snowpack in multiple places, water variation in SoCal etc that it could be difficult in any given year to accomplish the record even if a prepared hiker attempted it. 2011 northbound was out of the question for a record and southbound had a tiny window that Scott hit perfectly. The AT supported record is insane and beyond my ability to even imagine. That leaves the At unsupported. I think in addition to the list at the start of the thread that there are others that could be very competitive at that attempt. Among others would be Krudmeister, The Onion, the mythical Eric D, and actually Sam Fox who in spite of his flawed plan was able to put up some pretty impressive numbers in SoCal.

[CrumbSnatcher]

sounds like all the records have been broken just recently,except for the unsupported AT record. probably because it would be too easy to even bother :-)

[CrumbSnatcher]

i'd bet gg-man and mags are dead on, someday i'll have to check out that PCT
the mileage figures is just a rumor i heard, no big deal! its like getting info on the trail up ahead of you, from someone going the other direction :-)

[Del Q]

Keep in mind that Nature Boy was crushing the unsupported record last year until he got bonked on the head in Waynesboro. Super sad!

[stranger]

i get what your saying,but its not as easy as (decide to do it, then do it), for anyone. the terrain might whoop thier butt :-), won't knows til they try.
i heards 15 miles on the AT is like 30+ on the PCT.

An exaggeration to say the least. I've done easy 30's...they are no where near anything like 15 miles, on any trail. Second, YES...I believe it is that simple for the two hikers I mentioned, they have ALREADY done very similar things. Williamson just hiked the PCT in 64 days, Skurka once averaged 33 miles for day for over 200 days. It appears for whatever reason, that the unsupported record will probably go to someone who is a bit more 'human' than those already listed. The Nature Boy thing (whatever the hell happened) was a disappointment...it would have been great to see him do it.

[takethisbread]

Bit of an exaggeration. :)I When I did the BMT with its grades supposedly more difficult than the nearby AT, I was doing 25 MPD in late February. I am not exactly a hard core athlete either. :)While I'm not going to support any 2/1 hypothesis, I haven't found your claim to be true from my perspective either. TheBMT is IMO easier than the AT in Ga/Nc and a lot easier by a 2/1 virtual margin than the northern new England section . I'm not sure why everyone needs to compare these trails, in such a way. They are all great. Each has it's own challenges. Each has it's own wonders. I applaud the athletes that break these speed barriers, but the person who takes the longest is just as admired in my mind. All due respect of course.

[Iceaxe]

Hey,Hey Hey! My buddy Snorkel, aka Yamagame on WB, just set a new Women's unsupported record on the AT of 80 days.
She did this after hiking the Benton MacKaye trail as a "warm up".

[Mags]

Bread, I think you focused on the fine details of my post and not the overall thrust: The AT being the hardest trail physically is IMO, rubbish.

I think the AT is the first thru-hike for many people and that is why it is perceived as the most difficult for reasons mentioned earlier (inexperience, out-of-shape, heavier gear)

I only mentioned the BMT as that is what other people said. I don't necessarily believe it either. Hence why I said the word "supposedly". :)

[ChinMusic]

The AT being the hardest trail physically is IMO, rubbish.:)

How is it rubbish? Are you talking "per mile harder"? Obviously the AT is harder per mile. The PCT is mostly a pack trail. No horse could walk the AT.

[Mags]

How is it rubbish? Are you talking "per mile harder"? Obviously the AT is harder per mile. The PCT is mostly a pack trail. No horse could walk the AT.

Have you hiked the PCT?

Longer climbs equals out the steep but short climbs of the AT IMO.

As for the AT not being packable to horses. Ever been on the Old BRIDLE Path at Franconia Notch? And, IIRC , the AT in the Smokies is open to horses? :)

I still stand by my contention people perceive the AT (for the most part) to be the most difficult because it of the factors listed before. I won't repeat them a third time.



Notice, not once in this "discussion" did I claim one trail was easier or harder than the other. ;) Take from that what you will.

If you all want to say the AT is the hardest, go for it. I really don't have a dog in this fight. Probably can't say much else on this discussion personally.



That's it from me....

[fiddlehead]

Don't know all the names on the original list but would go out on a limb and say any of them can do it providing they have the right mindset (perhaps Ward had a bit of an advantage because of his abnormal mental state???), a ton of luck with the weather, and a ton of luck with getting resupplied, and a ton of luck , with your body. (which would be a result of conditioning and proper diet)

One thing I was lucky enough to learn a long time ago: You can do anything you want if you make it your only priority.
Scott Williamson (I believe) tried many times before perfecting his speed hikes of the PCT before actually setting a record. (perhaps partly because he loves it enough to keep doing it every year)

[ChinMusic]

Have you hiked the PCT?


My experience pails to yours but yes I have done some small parts of the PCT (Sierras) and found I could do maybe 25% more miles with similar effort compared to the AT. And I have not even seen the harder parts of the AT. My AT experience is mostly between Springer and Damascus.

[max patch]

Longer climbs equals out the steep but short climbs of the AT IMO.



I wonder if this is where personal preference applies.

My wife and I dayhike on a local trail quite often. There is a point where if you turn one way you have a long steady climb to the parking lot. You turn another way and you have a short but steep climb. Total mileage is the same. We separate at this point. She takes the long steady route. I opt for the short but steep climb.

[stranger]

Don't know all the names on the original list but would go out on a limb and say any of them can do it providing they have the right mindset (perhaps Ward had a bit of an advantage because of his abnormal mental state???), a ton of luck with the weather, and a ton of luck with getting resupplied, and a ton of luck , with your body. (which would be a result of conditioning and proper diet)

One thing I was lucky enough to learn a long time ago: You can do anything you want if you make it your only priority.
Scott Williamson (I believe) tried many times before perfecting his speed hikes of the PCT before actually setting a record. (perhaps partly because he loves it enough to keep doing it every year)

Agreed...and Williamson failed at the PCT yo-yo 3 times or more before his first completion (yo-yo), that guy has put alot into his style of hiking. Also, it's my understanding that Ward did his 60 day unsupported thru in 1990, the same year he hiked the AT 3 times in one calendar year, so his conditioning would have been primo.

[Del Q]

I will not be setting any records, definitely take Del Q off the list...........

BUT, I do plan on completing the Triple Crown in time

My father said to me a long time ago that "a good day is when all of my body parts work right", and he was not talking about his, well, you know!

The human endeavor continues, new records continue to be set which is cool................my goal is to get to a 14 mile/day average over my current 12

That is my story and I'm sticking with it!

[One Half]

In an unsupported thru (for a record) is the hiker "allowed" to hitch into town for resupply or must they walk? If they walk can they ditch their pack (don't know why they would)?

[Malto]

In an unsupported thru (for a record) is the hiker "allowed" to hitch into town for resupply or must they walk? If they walk can they ditch their pack (don't know why they would)?

There are no clearly defined rules... However, Scott Williamson may have set the standard with his walk to all resupply points, no vehicles at any time during the hike approach. As far as slack packing, most folks doing a record attempt will be so lightweight that there would be no advantage. And then where do you put your food?

[CrumbSnatcher]

In an unsupported thru (for a record) is the hiker "allowed" to hitch into town for resupply or must they walk? If they walk can they ditch their pack (don't know why they would)?it would be just like a traditional thruhike without the slackpacking and pre-arranged rides to town. IMO

[ChinMusic]

it would be just like a traditional thruhike without the slackpacking and pre-arranged rides to town. IMO

This.

The Williamson-standard is just another level I guess.

[CrumbSnatcher]

--------------------------------------

[stranger]

I disagree...if someone hikes the PCT in less time then Williamson and takes rides, they have still hiked the PCT in less time than Williamson. He chose to walk into towns, what a hiker chooses to do 'off trail' has no relevance to the overall time as far as I'm concerned, I accept people will disagree with this notion...it's all good.

Also...with the unsupported thing. Again there is no clarity on this. How come an unsupported thru-hike of the Long Trail means carrying everything on your back (except water for some reason) for the duration of the hike, yet an unsupported thru-hike of the PCT allows resupply? Argubly because the PCT or any trail over 500 miles is probably not hikeable without resupplying, however there are different rules for different trails - it's seems very silly.

Then take Ward Leonard, his unsupported hike in 1990 still stands, but he took hitches here and there. Do we now call this legendary hike 'self-supported'? If so, let me ask you another question, what hike ISN'T self-supported??

[Del Q]

To me supported is people meeting you at the trailhead and having/providing access to all kinds of things, food being just one of them. Its easy to throw mileage numbers around, but the AT is rugged and very tough, mentally and physically. I tell people that the "romantic notion" wears off on like day 2, add some rain and lots of ups.........sooner than that.

The miles that ALL of these people deliver are truly impressive, no way that anything can or should ever be taken away from them. I would never short someone because they got rides or hitched to/from town to resupply. Of course, at their speed, 4-5 miles is what, 10 minutes each way?

[Karl Meltzer]

I guess I'll let everyone at Whiteblaze know, that I won't be on the AT this year. I was seriously considering it, but I haven't found the perfect support I need to go after it in 2012. I will do it the way Jenn did it, very stealth. Problem is, my personal sponsors....Red Bull, BC.com, Hoka one one, all would rather see a bigger production like last time, (blog,make a movie etc.). I won't do it that way again. It sure was fun, noone can deny that, but even in 2008 when I made the attempt, I wanted to go stealth, but that didn't work out. Will I hike only? Probably not, I would go about the same "pace" as I did last time, pay more attention to tendinitis as well, and I would not stop in certain locations so the RV could have a place to park. I still think the "mule" concept is not necessarily right, where others can carry some stuff, but still, if I were to sleep in the woods, someone would set up the pad and spot to sleep. I would carry my own water and food on each section, it's just my style. Last time, I stopped so many times at 5-6pm, when it was still light. That is not the way to break a record. I must go scumbag it, which I am also very good at. :-) if I choose to do it that way.

In reality, if I had a great run at it, I honestly think the record could fall about 3 days faster. Believe me, I"m no "cowboy", but if all goes well, Jenn's record will go down in the next few years. Will it be me? who knows, but next time, (2013) will be the year I go after it, even on my own without a sponsor if I have to. I have a little unfinished business there. I lost way too much time with in-efficiency taking care of my crew.

Just thought I'd make it clear to all that this is not gonna be the year for the Speedgoat on the AT. I will say it is a bummer.

[Karl Meltzer]

Thanks for correcting the spelling map man, so many people get it wrong, I appreciate it
I believe that if Scott Williamson or Andrew Skurka ever made it a priority they have the ability and experience to have a chance to break Ward Leonard's "self supported" record of 60.5 days. The most remarkable things they are known for involves carrying a pack while doing amazing things, rather than going the "supported" route, so their chances at Leonard's record are easier to gauge than their chances at Pharr Davis's record. I have no idea how likely it is that either will ever decide to try it.

From what I read, there is some chance Karl Meltzer (note the spelling -- it's not "Metzger") will take a shot at the supported record soon. If he does it will be interesting to see if this time around he does less running and instead pursues a strategy more similar to Pharr Davis's.

I think what Scott Williamson has done on the PCT is amazing. To take 64 days to complete it in a high snow year, without support and without getting into a motor vehicle to speed up (and make easier) resupplies, just impresses me no end. Hiking "Scott Williamson style" has an appeal to me. Not the speed -- I could never do anything close to that -- but resupplying without motor vehicle assist. It seeems like on my two week backpacking trips (the most days on trail for me as yet) getting into a vehicle always feels like it's taking me out of the experience. I think it might be fun and challenging to try to work the logistics of a long hike, limiting myself to doing all my resupplies by walking.

Note that these are all arm chair observations. I have no real world experience with speed hikes. And my track record with speed hike predictions -- I estimated before she started that JPD's likely time on the AT this year was going to be a good week more than what she then did it in:rolleyes: -- have not been so hot.

[jersey joe]

I guess I'll let everyone at Whiteblaze know, that I won't be on the AT this year....I will say it is a bummer.
Yeah, bummer Karl, I enjoyed following your 2008 attempt and honestly didn't mind the big production, though I know some here didn't like it much. 2013 will be here before you know it. And 45 straight days of walking is nothing to take lightly. 3 Days faster is a VERY interesting prediction...

[Karl Meltzer]

not necessarily a prediction, dont' take it that way. I"m just saying that if it all clicks perfectly, that I feel it's doable, not just from me, but a few of those folks mentioned at the top of this thread.
Yeah, bummer Karl, I enjoyed following your 2008 attempt and honestly didn't mind the big production, though I know some here didn't like it much. 2013 will be here before you know it. And 45 straight days of walking is nothing to take lightly. 3 Days faster is a VERY interesting prediction...

[jersey joe]

I think it is very possible to take 3 days off the record. I still remember when squeaky was talking about a sub 40 thru hike...

[ChinMusic]

....but next time, (2013) will be the year I go after it, even on my own without a sponsor if I have to. I have a little unfinished business there. I lost way too much time with in-efficiency taking care of my crew.


2013. Awesome. That's my year. I hope I don't blink when you go flying by.......

[Kookork]

If you spend a good chunk of your life trying to set a record ( here AT record) then you need to define The record first. I do not know any of these great speed hikers personally but I might do the same thing Wilimson did. He is trying to define a new concept that is "Unsupported no ride".

I think he is trying to equalize the mileage of all record contenders as close at possible. The boldest and at the same time the best thing that has come to his mind is deleting the hitch hiking mileage for every body.

The problem is that this shift might not be accepted with all the record contenders and so in a few years we might end up with two subcategory in Unsupported category with two different record holders: 1- with ride 2- no ride.

Even with so called Wiliamson_standard it is unlikely that all the record contenders end up hiking the same mileage( due to a forest fire and a temporary rerout for instance) but it is a legitimate way to equalize the mileage or at least the best way he has come with .

I think WB and this thread is a good place to discuss but we need more record contender in this discussion. I wish more listed hikers like Karl start to share their thoughts about this pottential new standard.

[Malto]

The problem is that this shift might not be accepted with all the record contenders and so in a few years we might end up with two subcategory in Unsupported category with two different record holders: 1- with ride 2- no ride.

I don't think the ride vs no ride is an issue. Regardless or whether they take a ride they will be hiking 2653 of the PCT. The bigger issue is what defines the trail. Take last year, is the frog detour or the original route the "OFFICIAL" route? Scott and Adam would likely argue that the original route is the only option. But you are violating the restrictions placed on the route and could be fined for violating. And the PCT was just rerouted in the area around the Suattle River, adding mileage. So any future hiker will have a longer official route. And fire closures are also problematic. Some would argue that you should violate fire closures on a record attempt. Should you?

[Karl Meltzer]

I would consider an "unsupported attempt" one that noone, helps the hiker anywhere "on the trail". If the said hiker hitches a ride to town to get supplies, it's still unsupported (in my opinion), because these rides to town aren't "on the trail". The instant an "unsupported" hiker gets water from anyone, then they've been supported. There are too many arguements in each direction, and way too much to monitor. We all know an unsupported hike is easy to cheat, and although none of these faster guys and gals would be expected to cheat,it's impossible to really know. When I ran it in 2008, I had a SPOT device, but it was essentially useless for tracking because it didn't ping every minute, it only pinged when it felt like it. :-)

Anyway you look at it, it's a tough call, very hard to judge. Honesty is really the best policy, we've all heard that before.

Damn, I'm getting excited to do it again......maybe I need to go run another 100.....

[matthew.d.kirk]

I'll take the bait: I'm interested in attempting to hike the AT in a self-supported style in less than 60 days next year as defined by Buzz Burrell (from Peter Bakwin's FKT site: http://pbakwin.home.comcast.net/~pbakwin/FKT.html )

This would be my 3rd thru-hike of the AT. I would probably attempt it SOBO. I like how Williamson hiked in to resupply during his PCT hike and am interested in hearing what towns/resupply points would be must-stops and would minimize the "bonus" mileage that one would have to hike. Obviously, this would be an important strategy for any self-supported attempt and I appreciate any input/advice on the matter.

I'm leaving the country for a few weeks, but look forward to catching up on this thread when I return. Thanks.

-Matt

[jenpharr]

This is so exciting! I would LOVE for Matt Kirk to try for a trail record - supported or unsupported. He has a great temperament, he respects and loves the trail, and he has lots of trail experience and wisdom. I know that Matt has exposed a lot of other individuals to hiking and trail running in the Appalachian mountains, and I am sure that trend will continue. I have seen him moving through the mountains and he is both graceful and humble - it will be a joy to watch Matt in the future, regardless of whether or not he decides to travel down the AT next summer.
Also, MK has a phenomenal (thru-hiker) wife and awesome (thru-hiker) dog. If those two were waiting at the end of the trail, it would be worth hiking efficiently to see them again ; )
Yay Matt!

[rocketsocks]

what if all contenders raced at the same time(year),say 2015 and then every 5 years after that.has this been posed before?It sure would put alot of these questions to beb,or perhalps raise more.

[jersey joe]

This is so exciting!
Nice to see the current record holder active on whiteblaze and commenting on other record attempts!

Maybe the WB community can help Jenn win the National Geographic Adventurer of the Year award?!?!
http://adventure.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/adventurers-of-the-year/2012/jennifer-pharr-davis/

[Sly]

How is it rubbish? Are you talking "per mile harder"? Obviously the AT is harder per mile. The PCT is mostly a pack trail. No horse could walk the AT.

Horses could walk the AT, but for maybe 1 percent.

Depending on snowpack a horse would not be able to walk many sections of PCT. The reason trails that allow horses are so well graded is to prevent serious damage and erosion from hoofs digging up the trail bed.

No where on the AT during thru-hiker season is it harder than postholing for days at a time on the PCT.

[Sly]

I'm surprised no one mention the obvious person to be able to break the new record.

Jennifer Pharr Davis!

She hasn't even hit her prime.

[ChinMusic]

Horses could walk the AT, but for maybe 1 percent.
Hell of a horse. That has not been my opinion and I've only done the "easy" part of the AT.

[Del Q]

I have to say................these mileage numbers are "stupid"............my current average is 12 miles/day

Will probably move forward in the future..................I think that Nature Boy was NORTH OF 40 before he got "willy"d" near Waynesboro

Maybe 45??

[Malto]

Horses could walk the AT, but for maybe 1 percent.

Come on...... Give horses a bit more credit. There are few if any sections of the southern AT that horses couldn't travel and even the steepest part of trail that I have been on, Jacobs Ladder in NC, you could get a horse up or down that. You should read some of the stories of where the early Sierra travellers took horses, I've walked them and they make the AT look like horse play.

This whole AT vs. PCT argument is sort or silly. Given that no two years are the same on either trail there are huge variations in difficulty from year to year. There is no way for example that the AT was harder than the PCT in 2011. There was over 500 miles of snow and thousands of blowdowns not to mention dozens of raging streams and a few areas so overgrown that you can hardly call it a trail. My feet were wet everyday from June 15th until July 18th. I can remember saying many days that I just want to hike! (Not snowshoe without snowshoes or negotiate an obstacle course. ) There was actually a place that I had to cross a stream, snow and a blowdown all at the same time. But it was a remarkable difficult year, imagine miles of this!
14571

[Sly]

Hell of a horse. That has not been my opinion and I've only done the "easy" part of the AT.

A horse could make it from Springer to Dammascus a lot easier than most hikers. I don't know where a horse couldn't travel except for some sidehill rocky sections or a few notches in NH and ME and Katahdin.

Having four legs makes walking easier! ;)

[Sly]

Come on...... Give horses a bit more credit. There are few if any sections of the southern AT that horses couldn't travel and even the steepest part of trail that I have been on, Jacobs Ladder in NC, you could get a horse up or down that. You should read some of the stories of where the early Sierra travellers took horses, I've walked them and they make the AT look like horse play.



1% is only 21.81 miles a horse couldn't do.

[ChinMusic]

A horse could make it from Springer to Dammascus a lot easier than most hikers. I don't know where a horse couldn't travel except for some sidehill rocky sections or a few notches in NH and ME and Katahdin.

Having four legs makes walking easier! ;)

My hiking partner raises horses for a living. She said differently.

I haven't been on a horse since 5th grade.

[Sly]

My hiking partner raises horses for a living. She said differently.

I haven't been on a horse since 5th grade.

Goes without saying you'd need a good trail horse and a serious rider. If horses were allowed on the AT they'd be all over it, and they'd be able to walk most of it.


If you are new to this site, let me say we only deal in the gaited breeds. Tennessee Walkers, Mountain Horses (Rocky and Kentucky Mountain), Spotted Saddle Horses and Missouri Fox Trotters. We have absolutely no preference in breed as a pleasure/trail horse. It is up to each individual horse! Temperament is the number one most important factor in what we offer as a reliable, safe and enjoyable pleasure/trail horse. Our location of operation is unique! We can ride out of our ranch into thousands of miles of mountain trails. Steep inclines, creeks, and encounters with wildlife are an everyday occurrence. This is our training grounds! If you don't see exactly what you are looking for in one of the mentioned gaited breeds, then please send me an e-mail or call.. We can find you the perfect match!

http://www.trailhorsesofthewest.net/



Here's a thread about horses and steep trail.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=560699





(http://www.trailhorsesofthewest.net/)

[Mags]

All the trails are hard. Arguing over which one is the most difficult is STOOOPID.

BTW, they used to take horses up this nearly 5000' gain trail in New Hampshire. :O

http://www.summitpost.org/crawford-path/163214

Still almost the same trail for nearly 200 yrs and (as with most side trails in NH off the AT) arguably more difficult than the AT through the Whites.

[map man]

Matt Kirk,

Since you've thru-hiked twice already you have way more experience than I have, but working out the logistics of a hike like you proposed proved irresistable to me, so here are some thoughts:

Your first question, which towns/resupply points would be must stops? The towns with a decent number of services that the trail goes right through -- namely (in order for a south-bounder),

Hanover NH
Dalton MA
Delaware Water Gap PA
Duncannon PA
Harpers Ferry WV?
Daleville VA
Damascus VA
Hot Springs NC

A second related question would be, which towns that are normally popular with thru-hikers should I avoid because they are farther away from the trail than is ideal for a walking resupply (again going SOBO)?

Stratton ME
Rangeley ME
Andover ME
Manchester Center VT
Vernon NJ
Front Royal VA
Waynesboro VA
Fontana NC
Franklin NC
Hiawassee GA

So what would a hypothetical itinerary look like for a self-supported-no-motor-assist 60 day thru-hike?

Katahdin
117.8 miles, 3 days, 39.3 miles per day
Monson ME (2.2 miles off trail), Shaw's Lodging (bed, shower, laundry, meals, accepts mail drops)
180.5 miles, 6 days, 30.1 miles per day
Gorham NH (.1 mile off trail), White Mountain Lodge and Hostel (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
100.6 miles, 3 days, 33.5 miles per day
Glencliff NH (.2 miles off trail), Hikers Welcome Hostel (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
43.3 miles, 1.5 days, 28.9 miles per day
Hanover NH, Hanover Food Co-Op (food resupply)
177.9 miles, 4.5 days, 39.5 miles per day
Dalton MA, Cumberland Farms (limited grocery), multiple lodging options (bed, shower at least)
102.9, 2.5 days, 41.0 miles per day
Kent CT, .8 miles off trail to Kent Market (limited grocery), 1.6 miles off trail to IGA (full grocery)
173.6 miles, 4.5 days, 38.6 miles per day
DWG PA, Church of the Mountain Hostel (bed, shower), .6 miles off trail to Amoco (BP?) Mart (limited grocery)
146.7 miles, 4 days, 36.7 miles per day
Duncannon PA, Doyle Hotel (bed, shower, laundry, restaurant, accepts mail drops)
144.2 miles, 4 days, 36.1 miles per day
Bears Den Hostel VA, (.2 miles off trail) (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
113 miles, 3 days, 37.7 miles per day
Loft Mtn. Campground and Store (SNP) (.2 miles off trail) (shower, laundry, limited grocery)
161.2 miles, 4 days, 40.3 miles per day
Daleville VA, (.2 miles off trail) Econolodge or Howard Johnsons (bed, shower, laundry, accept mail drops)
103.1 miles, 3 days, 34.4 miles per day
Woods Hole Hostel VA, (.5 miles off trail) (bed, shower, laundry, meals, accepts mail drops)
152.5 miles, 4 days, 38.1 miles per day
Damascus VA, Mt. Rogers Outfitters accepts mail drops, lodging, other services except grocery on trail
50.6 miles, 1 day, 50.6 miles per day
Kincora Hostel TN, (.2 miles off trail) (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
74.3 miles, 2 days, 37.2 miles per day
Uncle Johnny's Hostel TN (Erwin) (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
68.1 miles, 2 days, 34.1 miles per day
Hot Springs NC, multiple services including lodging and full grocery on trail
32.7 miles, 1 day, 32.7 miles per day
Standing Bear Farm Hostel NC, (.1 mile off trail) (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
103.9 miles, 3 days, 34.6 miles per day
Nantahala Outdoor Center NC (bed, shower, laundry, restaurant, accepts mail drops)
105.4 miles, 3 days, 35.1 miles per day
Mountain Crossings Hostel GA (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
31.7 miles, 1 day, 31.7 miles per day
Springer

All trips off trail are under a mile except for Monson, and that seems unavoidable (Katahdin to Gorham is an awful long carry between resupplies). A principle I use throughout is that it's better to get lots of services under one roof (like at a hostel or some motels), than to traipse all over a trail town for separate stops for food resupply, laundry, shower, etc.

The itinerary assumes that mail drops are in the spirit of a "self-supported" hike whether it is you or someone else at home that prepares and sends them. Reading through the FKT web site (that you linked to) distinctions between supported and self-supported hikes, mail drops seem to fall in the self-supported category. If you wanted to be a purist you could prepare and send all of them yourself before the hike (using foods with long shelf lives). Since all of the mail drops would be at businesses instead of post offices there would be no limit on how long they could be held for you.

You would want to consult a new 2012 guidebook like the AT Companion to make sure of addresses and that all the info here is still correct.

[jersey joe]

Nice job Map Man! If I ever find myself going for any sort of record I'll be sure to recruit you for my logistics team! :)


Also, just another reminder to the Whiteblaze community to vote for our own Jenn Pharr as Nat. Geo. adventurer of the year! http://adventure.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/adventurers-of-the-year/2012/vote/

[CrumbSnatcher]

abol bridge campstore
williams town/north adams
6,000 deli's in N.Y./N.J. within 2 miles of the trail :-)
pearisburg VA.
theres more
at neels gap, with 1 day to go,theres plenty of grub at the store to get you by.

[nitewalker]

My hiking partner raises horses for a living. She said differently.

I haven't been on a horse since 5th grade.

ya ever watch mantracker and what he puts his horse thru. sure it may not be a climb up mt albert but he does put the horse in some ruff spots..1% is an uderstatement to say the least..i guarantee the horse will find it easier to ford the kennebec than any of us humans...lol....

[nitewalker]

Matt Kirk,

Since you've thru-hiked twice already you have way more experience than I have, but working out the logistics of a hike like you proposed proved irresistable to me, so here are some thoughts:

Your first question, which towns/resupply points would be must stops? The towns with a decent number of services that the trail goes right through -- namely (in order for a south-bounder),

Hanover NH
Dalton MA
Delaware Water Gap PA
Duncannon PA
Harpers Ferry WV?
Daleville VA
Damascus VA
Hot Springs NC

A second related question would be, which towns that are normally popular with thru-hikers should I avoid because they are farther away from the trail than is ideal for a walking resupply (again going SOBO)?

Stratton ME
Rangeley ME
Andover ME
Manchester Center VT
Vernon NJ
Front Royal VA
Waynesboro VA
Fontana NC
Franklin NC
Hiawassee GA

So what would a hypothetical itinerary look like for a self-supported-no-motor-assist 60 day thru-hike?

Katahdin
117.8 miles, 3 days, 39.3 miles per day
Monson ME (2.2 miles off trail), Shaw's Lodging (bed, shower, laundry, meals, accepts mail drops)
180.5 miles, 6 days, 30.1 miles per day
Gorham NH (.1 mile off trail), White Mountain Lodge and Hostel (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
100.6 miles, 3 days, 33.5 miles per day
Glencliff NH (.2 miles off trail), Hikers Welcome Hostel (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
43.3 miles, 1.5 days, 28.9 miles per day
Hanover NH, Hanover Food Co-Op (food resupply)
177.9 miles, 4.5 days, 39.5 miles per day
Dalton MA, Cumberland Farms (limited grocery), multiple lodging options (bed, shower at least)
102.9, 2.5 days, 41.0 miles per day
Kent CT, .8 miles off trail to Kent Market (limited grocery), 1.6 miles off trail to IGA (full grocery)
173.6 miles, 4.5 days, 38.6 miles per day
DWG PA, Church of the Mountain Hostel (bed, shower), .6 miles off trail to Amoco (BP?) Mart (limited grocery)
146.7 miles, 4 days, 36.7 miles per day
Duncannon PA, Doyle Hotel (bed, shower, laundry, restaurant, accepts mail drops)
144.2 miles, 4 days, 36.1 miles per day
Bears Den Hostel VA, (.2 miles off trail) (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
113 miles, 3 days, 37.7 miles per day
Loft Mtn. Campground and Store (SNP) (.2 miles off trail) (shower, laundry, limited grocery)
161.2 miles, 4 days, 40.3 miles per day
Daleville VA, (.2 miles off trail) Econolodge or Howard Johnsons (bed, shower, laundry, accept mail drops)
103.1 miles, 3 days, 34.4 miles per day
Woods Hole Hostel VA, (.5 miles off trail) (bed, shower, laundry, meals, accepts mail drops)
152.5 miles, 4 days, 38.1 miles per day
Damascus VA, Mt. Rogers Outfitters accepts mail drops, lodging, other services except grocery on trail
50.6 miles, 1 day, 50.6 miles per day
Kincora Hostel TN, (.2 miles off trail) (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
74.3 miles, 2 days, 37.2 miles per day
Uncle Johnny's Hostel TN (Erwin) (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
68.1 miles, 2 days, 34.1 miles per day
Hot Springs NC, multiple services including lodging and full grocery on trail
32.7 miles, 1 day, 32.7 miles per day
Standing Bear Farm Hostel NC, (.1 mile off trail) (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
103.9 miles, 3 days, 34.6 miles per day
Nantahala Outdoor Center NC (bed, shower, laundry, restaurant, accepts mail drops)
105.4 miles, 3 days, 35.1 miles per day
Mountain Crossings Hostel GA (bed, shower, laundry, accepts mail drops)
31.7 miles, 1 day, 31.7 miles per day
Springer

All trips off trail are under a mile except for Monson, and that seems unavoidable (Katahdin to Gorham is an awful long carry between resupplies). A principle I use throughout is that it's better to get lots of services under one roof (like at a hostel or some motels), than to traipse all over a trail town for separate stops for food resupply, laundry, shower, etc.

The itinerary assumes that mail drops are in the spirit of a "self-supported" hike whether it is you or someone else at home that prepares and sends them. Reading through the FKT web site (that you linked to) distinctions between supported and self-supported hikes, mail drops seem to fall in the self-supported category. If you wanted to be a purist you could prepare and send all of them yourself before the hike (using foods with long shelf lives). Since all of the mail drops would be at businesses instead of post offices there would be no limit on how long they could be held for you.

You would want to consult a new 2012 guidebook like the AT Companion to make sure of addresses and that all the info here is still correct.


insanity.......................................... .................................................b ut a very breakdown...

[nitewalker]

insanity.......................................... ......but a very good breakdown.....

[CrumbSnatcher]

trying to avoid motor vehicle support(rides to town)
but will except maildrops from the post office, who used a motor vehicle to get you the package?
seems a little silly :-) but HYOH is good enough for me, go for it!

[matthew.d.kirk]

Map Man, I want to commend you on your logistics for a self-supported hike. Awesome!

Jen, thanks for your comments!

Crumbsnatcher, interesting point on the legitimacy of maildrops. Any other thoughts out there? Did Scott Williamson use maildrops on his most recent PCT feat? Thanks.

-Matt

[Seatbelt]

My hiking partner raises horses for a living. She said differently.

I haven't been on a horse since 5th grade.

I have a hard time believing that a horse could hike parts of the rocky trail in PA.

[Sly]

I have a hard time believing that a horse could hike parts of the rocky trail in PA.

Maybe, but you could always boot them...

14677