Think I am back to the drawing board on solo shelter.....

[nawlunz]

I went with a Tarptent rainbow last year on the JMT.....absolutely loved the space, easy set up and weight. However, this was my first trek with single wall tent. I found the condensation every morning was a hassle. I had a tent sponge, and glad I did. Lots of water removed. Granted, in many of the places I camped was near water, but that is the JNT. So, do I just live with it? Or, is there a comparable, lightweight double walled tent that would fair better with condensation. G\

[Tinker]

A double-walled tent will fare better, but it will be somewhat heavier. I think that Six Moon Designs has some very light double walled tents now.

[Tinker]

A double-walled tent will fare better, but it will be somewhat heavier. I think that Six Moon Designs has some very light double walled tents now.

Here's a start: http://sixmoondesigns.com/nettents/HavenNetTent.html

You'll need one of these, too: http://sixmoondesigns.com/tarps/HavenTarp.html

The net mesh "ceiling" of the inner tent won't prevent condensation, but at least you won't touch it (without really trying). Unfortunately, if you get massive condensation under the fly and it starts raining, the rain drops will knock the condensation off the tarp as mist. The only thing that will stop misting is a tight fabric ceiling on the inner tent, rarely found on tents, especially ultralight ones.

[Del Q]

Check out Hyperlite Mountain Gear, cool new company from Maine.............love my new cuben fiber pack!!

[Wise Old Owl]

No rethinking required - its a great tent and keep in mind the smaller things are the condensation will always be an issue! It won't happen every night - and your wiping it down is just fine...

We are 66% water - we exhale it and loose a little each night - you are also condensing water from your warm 98 degree bod and lungs and it hits the cold air at night.... Therefore - the smaller the tent - bivy... etc.

Cooler nights leave a door open - even if it light rains or drizzle - you will wake up and you can close it

Stick with the tent and wear it out - then rethink.

The Owl has spoke.

[Franco]

Double wall tents at best reduce condensation but usually just mask it, in other words you don't see it , don't come into contact with it , but it is still there.
In fact in some situations people that have fabric inners and a low fly will have more condensation because of lack of air flow.
That was very obvious the morning after my last night on the trail , last week, when after inspecting my and my mate's tent (the StratoSpire2 and the Moment) 3 out of another 8 tents owners placed an order for one of them after beign cold and wet all night...(it had been raining almost non stop and hard since the early afternoon the day before)
With the Rainbow you can add a liner; that is in fact the top part of a fabric inner. It will catch the possible mist but again will not "dissolve" condensation.
Also keep in mind that after you wipe down the tent , it will weigh almost the same as dry, if you pack up a wet fly with an inner you will get that inner wet and carry the weight till it dries.
(I packed up my SS2 in heavy rain so the fly was wet . It was about 14oz heavier than when dry about 8 hours later at home)
Franco

[Wise Old Owl]

Great answer Franco!

[BreakWind]

Hammocks work well as single person shelters. They are light. The tarp doesn't collect condensation. And they are much more comfortable than the ground.

[Rain Man]

(I packed up my SS2 in heavy rain so the fly was wet . It was about 14oz heavier than when dry about 8 hours later at home)
Franco

I have to ask ... did you have a scale when you packed it? 14oz seems ... almost unbelievable.

Rain:sunMan

.

[HeartFire]

Did you look at the LightHeart Solo? it's on sale right now, double wall tent - www.lightheartgear.com
Judy of LightHeart Gear

[FamilyGuy]

I would want to be able to separate the inner tent from the fly in high condensation conditions and the SS1 or SS2 fits the bill. You can then pack the fly away separately if it is wet.

Re: the lightheart, you can't separate the inner from the fly, correct?

[Wise Old Owl]

I think you are overthinking it FG. - just leave a door open.

[10-K]

The #1 way I deal with condensation is paying attention to where I'm pitching my tent. Never not once have I thought I needed to buy a double wall tent to deal with condensation.

A piece of sponge or bandana works well to wipe up whatever condensation does appear.

[nawlunz]

The #1 way I deal with condensation is paying attention to where I'm pitching my tent. Never not once have I thought I needed to buy a double wall tent to deal with condensation.

A piece of sponge or bandana works well to wipe up whatever condensation does appear.


10-K...What kind of tent do you have?

[10-K]

I have a Lunar Solo, Lunar Duo, Rainbow, and LH Solo Cuben. The first 3 are single wall, the last is double.

I didn't buy the LH Solo because it was double walled - I bought it because it's very light with a lot of room.

One thing I picked up pretty quick is under normal circumstances to pitch the tent with the door/vestibule into the wind for maximum ventilation. This is not a good idea if a storm is expected.

Also, avoid low spots, grassy areas, and near water/wet areas. Under a tree helps too.

[nawlunz]

I have a Lunar Solo, Lunar Duo, Rainbow, and LH Solo Cuben. The first 3 are single wall, the last is double.

I didn't buy the LH Solo because it was double walled - I bought it because it's very light with a lot of room.

One thing I picked up pretty quick is under normal circumstances to pitch the tent with the door/vestibule into the wind for maximum ventilation. This is not a good idea if a storm is expected.

Also, avoid low spots, grassy areas, and near water/wet areas. Under a tree helps too.



Yes, I really liked the room and weight of the LH cuben tent, just grimacing about the cost....but, maybe someday.

[Franco]

Rain Man :
I have to ask ... did you have a scale when you packed it? 14oz seems ... almost unbelievable.

It would have been a bit easier to understand if I had worded my sentence this way :
"Measuring the weight at home, 8 hours later, it was still 14oz heavier than when dry. "

From previous experiments if I pack a silnylon tent wet but after a good shake down(that is, it isn't raining when I am doing it) it gains around 20-25% of its weight.
Polyester and taffeta nylon tents gain much more than that (once saturated...)
Franco

[stranger]

As others have said, you will still have condesation on any double-wall tent, you are just more protected from it. Don't camp out in the open and don't camp near water if you can help it. I remember one day in New Zealand we were paddling the Whanganui River and I was camped under a tree outside the 'official' camping area, my buddy was out in the open grassy area. The next day my tent was 95% dry and his was dripping in morning dew and condensation.

It's not the tent, it's not the tent, it's not the tent, it's not the tent

[10-K]

It's not the tent, it's not the tent, it's not the tent, it's not the tent

You said it much better than I did.

[FamilyGuy]

I think you are overthinking it FG. - just leave a door open.

Works great in the rain.:banana

[10-K]

.
(I packed up my SS2 in heavy rain so the fly was wet . It was about 14oz heavier than when dry about 8 hours later at home)
Franco

I can believe it. When my Lunar Duo is good and wet it feels like a cinder block.

[rp1790]

Lightheart solo, as light as you can possibly get for a double wall tent, about 27oz. I used a Lunar Duo for two months and really got sick of condensation and misting on the AT.

[stranger]

- Big Agnes Fly Creek
- Big Agnes Copper Spur
- MSR Hubba
- Tarptent Notch
- Lightheart Solo
- Terra Nova Laser Competition
- Aarn Pacer
- Sierra Designs Light Year (argubly the most accomplished long distance tent ever)

[Marta]

As 10-K said, watch where you pitch it. Under trees is good. In open meadow, not so good. Basically any place where the air will be still and damp, and where cool air will pool during the night, not so good. Places where the air will be moving, and where there is something between you and the open sky will be good.

That said, if you are addicted to pitching in damp places, getting a double walled tent will help you avoid rubbing your sleeping bag up against the wet walls.

[George]

I reason I prefer a bivy breathing/condensation is usually outside the system

[sbhikes]

Can't you just pitch it in better places and/or leave a door open? The condensation is the trade-off for the weight, you know. And to trade it back you have to pitch it in better places and/or leave a door open.

[grateful 2]

Have the Big Agnes, MSR, and the sierra designs. Just went to the NEMO obi- lightest and biggest of the group

[grateful 2]

Have the Big Agnes, MSR, and the sierra designs. Just went to the NEMO obi- lightest and biggest of the group I meant 2nd lightest and biggest

[Wise Old Owl]

nawlunz - well what did you decide? (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?27151-nawlunz)

[Tinker]

I reason I prefer a bivy breathing/condensation is usually outside the system

In rain I fold the bottom back inside and try to breathe out the end. Rain splash gets me once in a while. Using a tarp helps, but bugs and heat are a problem, so I switched to the hammock/bug net for summer. My bivy is now for emergency winter use only.

[Tinker]

I would want to be able to separate the inner tent from the fly in high condensation conditions and the SS1 or SS2 fits the bill. You can then pack the fly away separately if it is wet.

Re: the lightheart, you can't separate the inner from the fly, correct?

You are correct.

[Tinker]

Another way to minimize condensation in your tent is to cover the floor of your vestibule with plastic sheeting or something else that's non-breathable. That way moisture from the damp ground won't rise to condense on the underside of your vestibule. This has been a problem for me in just above freezing temperatures while camping on snow. Snow, of course, is mostly water with a couple of particles of dust thrown in, so when it's melting the humidity is nearly 100%. If you have a heavy fog (common under such conditions) you will absolutely have condensation, no matter what you do. In such cases it's practically a necessity to wipe down the inside of your vestibule with a bandanna or you will certainly wipe it off with your back!

[TyTy]

Tell me again why silnylon is a good tent material? It can mist, it absorbs 20-25% of it's original weight in water, and kneeling on it can cause water to come through it. Seems to me that it's only two advantages are that it is cheap it light, everything else is a compromise.

[nawlunz]

nawlunz - well what did you decide? (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?27151-nawlunz)

Well, I LOVE the Rainbow!! To me, the ease of setup, weight, and space are all keepers...I am going to try to do a better job of selecting my spots to set up...but, again, the condensation was a hassle, but perhaps may be worth the hassle given all the other positives of this tent.

[Franco]

From TyTy
"Tell me again why silnylon is a good tent material? It can mist, it absorbs 20-25% of its original weight in water, and kneeling on it can cause water to come through it. Seems to me that it's only two advantages are that it is cheap it light, everything else is a compromise. "

All of the above have been debated for years but for the benefit of the new ones I will attempt to explain.
First, where did you get the idea that silnylon absorbs water?
As far as I can see, for me at least, the weight of the water I reported was ON not IN the fabric. It was simply impossible for me to wipe the water off because it was raining hard as I took the tent down. On the other hand there are tent fabrics that absorb water, 40% weight increase is not all that unusual...
(I have done several "water tests" in my backyard comparing tent materials)

Silnylon is neither cheap nor inexpensive. If you compare the price of a tent made with polyester or PU coated taffeta nylon and the same in silnylon the latter one will be up to twice the cost.
(that would leave only "light" from your list as a plus for silnylon)
So why is it been used since the late 70's as tent material?
Because it has great tensile strength for the weight, it does not delaminate nor does it get mould if badly stored. So to some the benefits outweigh the disadvantages (sagging, DIY seam sealing...)
(keep in mind that most cottage manufacturers are “a gay/girl that hikes and started making a shelter for themselves using the material they think works better for them…)
As I mentioned at BPL, there isn't and there will not be at least in the near future a tent fabric that works best for most in most/all situations.
This is exactly the same for clothing fabric, and that is the reason why there are so many varieties.
BTW, not all silnylon is the same anyway…just like not all wool is the same.

Franco

[skinewmexico]

Another way to minimize condensation in your tent is to cover the floor of your vestibule with plastic sheeting or something else that's non-breathable. That way moisture from the damp ground won't rise to condense on the underside of your vestibule.

My Moment was bad about condensation when I picked a bad spot to pitch it. Extending my ground sheet (mostly) over the vestibules solved a lot of that.

[Franco]

Since I am at it...

Misting
You can get, on rare occasions, misting from penetration.
You need big raindrops for that; often they come from blobs dropped by a tree branch above the shelter. (Basically it’s kinetic energy)
This is not a silnylon exclusive, it can and does happen with many types of fabric, however, because silnylon has been a very popular single wall tent material it gets more comments than others.
You need to remember that we don’t get many comments in the forums from the thousands of people that buy Eureka! (no offence…) and the like tents so what you read are comments from a very small group of people, typically gear freaks not representing the “average” hiker.
(for example I can supply tent/mat/sleeping bag/pack/stove/pots to another 4 walkers from my arsenal, however I have not had less than 10 tents for over a decade)

The most common form of misting is in fact condensation dislodged from the underside of the fabric. That can and does happen with any fabric, however (again) if you have a double wall tent particularly with a full fabric inner, you may not be aware of that.

You need to remember that all too often it is simply the case of location and aptitude.
So “I always get cold wearing shorts” and “I never get cold wearing shorts” can be both true depending of where you are just as “I always get condensation” and “I never do” can be true describing exactly the same shelter…

BTW, last night I had two Moments drying out (post seam sealing) in my backyard.
For some reason I had one taut the other was not.
It rained in the evening and at around 3AM the wind woke me up.
So I went down to have a look at the shelters.
One was steady as a rock, the other was wobbling all over the place.
So next time we read about bad experiences with tents, let’s think about possible “user error”.


Skinewmexico
What you describe is a common situation with that type of design (single hoop) but does also affect other shelters with a large/ish vestibule.
(check comments on the British forum (OM) about the numerous shelters there that employ that design, mind you the Brits seem to favor condensation over air flow…)
A mate of mine almost always sleeps with the door of his Moment fully open, when it rains on that side then he lifts up the other side and leaves the ends open.
But yes, ground evaporation is great for condensation .
Franco

[TyTy]

From TyTy
"Tell me again why silnylon is a good tent material? It can mist, it absorbs 20-25% of its original weight in water, and kneeling on it can cause water to come through it. Seems to me that it's only two advantages are that it is cheap it light, everything else is a compromise. "

All of the above have been debated for years but for the benefit of the new ones I will attempt to explain.
First, where did you get the idea that silnylon absorbs water?
As far as I can see, for me at least, the weight of the water I reported was ON not IN the fabric. It was simply impossible for me to wipe the water off because it was raining hard as I took the tent down. On the other hand there are tent fabrics that absorb water, 40% weight increase is not all that unusual...
(I have done several "water tests" in my backyard comparing tent materials)

Silnylon is neither cheap nor inexpensive. If you compare the price of a tent made with polyester or PU coated taffeta nylon and the same in silnylon the latter one will be up to twice the cost.
(that would leave only "light" from your list as a plus for silnylon)
So why is it been used since the late 70's as tent material?
Because it has great tensile strength for the weight, it does not delaminate nor does it get mould if badly stored. So to some the benefits outweigh the disadvantages (sagging, DIY seam sealing...)
(keep in mind that most cottage manufacturers are “a gay/girl that hikes and started making a shelter for themselves using the material they think works better for them…)
As I mentioned at BPL, there isn't and there will not be at least in the near future a tent fabric that works best for most in most/all situations.
This is exactly the same for clothing fabric, and that is the reason why there are so many varieties.
BTW, not all silnylon is the same anyway…just like not all wool is the same.

Franco




I understand your points but from reading about it I am convinced at a minimum the silnylon used in TT's absorbs some water, it may allow misting, kneeling on the ground cloth can cause water to come up through it, and pads slip on it. The solution (again all this from reading, no personal experience) is to possibly spray silicone spray on the fly, paint diluted silicone on the floor in stripes or possibly the whole thing, both sides (accepting that this will probably hold dirt and wear off over time), and/or use a ground cloth or not kneel directly on the floor. I love TT designs, price points, everything about them really EXCEPT these things. It just irks me that I have to compromise on so many points to get a lighter, more affordable tent. I don't like the idea of buying something then going to town on it with sprays, diluted silicone and seam sealer. It just irks me. I wish I could have a TT design in a material that did not absorb water, and was not slipery for pads. I know I would still have to deal with condensation.

Maybe I am just to picky. Probably so.

[Tinker]

Franco: “a gay/girl that hikes"................:confused:

I don't miss much :D

We know what you mean. :)

[skinewmexico]

Skinewmexico
What you describe is a common situation with that type of design (single hoop) but does also affect other shelters with a large/ish vestibule.
(check comments on the British forum (OM) about the numerous shelters there that employ that design, mind you the Brits seem to favor condensation over air flow…)
A mate of mine almost always sleeps with the door of his Moment fully open, when it rains on that side then he lifts up the other side and leaves the ends open.
But yes, ground evaporation is great for condensation .
Franco

I will admit user error played a big part. I camped on damp ground (canoe trip), next to a river, still night 32-33 degrees.

[Franco]

gay or jolly ?
14532
Funny thing is that my mate and I have the same pants, same pack, same boots, same runners, same snow shoes and same coloured shirt as well as tent.
So we could look like a couple but since I use different packs and tents as well as tops that same-same scenario never happens...

Anyway , if seam sealing or stuff like that is a bother , I would definitely not recommend a Tarptent, there are plenty of other choices...
14533

This was the view , in the afternoon, from my SS2 last week. It rained all night too.
(we were on a bit of a ridge at 1800m)
The next morning a couple of guys had a look at the Moment my mate was using (they had evacuated their shelter , a tent and a tarp, and spent the night in the nearby
refuge) and a couple eyed my SS2.
The two guys have since purchased a Moment each and the couple have ordered the SS2.


Franco

[Franco]

Location

Sometimes you have to take what you get.
However...
14534
This was our camp spot the first night. We are about 6' up from a small river. The other side of the river is nice and flat and there is a refuge to the right of the picture.
Looks really lovely having the river next to your tent, another small stream joining that and the refuge next to you.
(particularly after the steep descent to it)
But the flat part is a bog... so the two tents that were set up there were absolutely wet in the morning as was the ground all around them. (I had a look...)
So I am pretty sure that we had a better night sleep..
Franco

[Franco]

Location

Sometimes you have to take what you get.
However...

This was our camp spot the first night. We are about 6' up from a small river. The other side of the river is nice and flat and there is a refuge to the right of the picture.
Looks really lovely having the river next to your tent, another small stream joining that and the refuge next to you.
(particularly after the steep descent to it)
But the flat part is a bog... so the two tents that were set up there were absolutely wet in the morning as was the ground all around them. (I had a look...)
So I am pretty sure that we had a better night sleep..
Franco

[Franco]

This may give a better idea.
14535
The bridge is not clearly visible from the refuge situated close to were the trail hits the flat spot.
Where we are is a bit hilly and hard to tell from the other side that there are flat spots. In fact there are plenty just a bit further up but I can see why most would be tempted to camp by the refuge
(the toilet is there also...)
So the point here is that it helps to have a bit of a look around and chose the best location.
Typically for me, I look around and I will point at a spot that looks right to me but I tend to favor a good view over weather protection.
Franco

[Nitrojoe]

In the last couple of weeks there has been several questions about light weight tents. Ive been looking for a light weight tent myself and I have found a tent maker who makes great tents and his company is not mentioned as much as Tarptent, Six Moon Designs and Light Heart and that is Mountain Laurel Designs. His company has been around for several years and is well known in the small company tent industry. His tents are used by the Backpacking Light people and Andrew Skurka who is a world renown thru hiker. Go on line and ckeck out his tents.

[Big Dawg]

Maybe I am just to picky. Probably so.

Yes, probably so. I believe you're really overthinking the silnylon negatives. Overall, for the price, it's a very good tent material option

[hikingshoes]

Checkout the MSR carbon reflex 2 tent.I just got one and love it.HS

[Hoofit]

The Hubba Hubba is also a great tent, did me fine for 1200 miles last year, I think you save about a pound though with the carbon reflex, hope the poles are strong enough, someone told me that they are not as strong as the original, heavier ones.
Great tent though.

[Tipi Walter]

As others have said, you will still have condesation on any double-wall tent, you are just more protected from it. Don't camp out in the open and don't camp near water if you can help it. I remember one day in New Zealand we were paddling the Whanganui River and I was camped under a tree outside the 'official' camping area, my buddy was out in the open grassy area. The next day my tent was 95% dry and his was dripping in morning dew and condensation.

It's not the tent, it's not the tent, it's not the tent, it's not the tent

Part of backpacking and camping is having and using a shelter that can be put up anywhere with little or no consideration to "site selection". Your comment "don't camp out in the open and don't camp near water" is dubious as if applied we would never pull a backpacking trip. No shelter should dictate where we want or need to set up. Atop an open high elevation bald in a blizzard? Do it. Next to a river during a 60 hour rainstorm? Do it. In a peg pulling windstorm with 60mph gusts? Do it.


As 10-K said, watch where you pitch it. Under trees is good. In open meadow, not so good. Basically any place where the air will be still and damp, and where cool air will pool during the night, not so good. Places where the air will be moving, and where there is something between you and the open sky will be good.

That said, if you are addicted to pitching in damp places, getting a double walled tent will help you avoid rubbing your sleeping bag up against the wet walls.


In the last couple of weeks there has been several questions about light weight tents. Ive been looking for a light weight tent myself and I have found a tent maker who makes great tents and his company is not mentioned as much as Tarptent, Six Moon Designs and Light Heart and that is Mountain Laurel Designs. His company has been around for several years and is well known in the small company tent industry. His tents are used by the Backpacking Light people and Andrew Skurka who is a world renown thru hiker. Go on line and ckeck out his tents.

On a September trip during tropical storm Lee I counted 84 hours of nearly nonstop rain. On my most recent November trip I had 63 hours of pretty much nonstop rain (pretty much means it may stop for five hours and then start up again for two days). This recent trip really was just a series of long cold rainstorms with periods of in-tent condensation. You just get into the occasional habit of swabbing down your inner tent with a rag and wringing out the water. No big deal.


TENT RULE---Here's a pet peeve and my current Tent Rule: No part of the tent should touch the sleeping bag. Period. This is the most important rule when it comes to tents (or tarps). No part of the tent should touch your bag, whether the tent is dry or wet. If your tent rubs up against your bag, especially the foot of your bag, then that tent is worthless.


This applies to all the small tents so popular nowadays, the Akto, the Seedhouses, the TarpTents, the Eureka Solitaires, etc. Here's the problem: The cant of the side and end walls vs the height of your 12 inch lofted down bag atop a three inch pad, ergo you have 15 inches of elevation at the end of your tent but the end wall is angled right onto the top of this 15 inch height. Not good. Alot of inner tent moisture is transferred to a sleeping bag this way.


So, most tents are "useless" and just too small to prevent wet draping due to in-tent condensation. People love super light shelters but if any of these shelters touch your bag they are not worth having. Get in a 40 hour winter deluge and you'll know what I'm talking about.


HILLEBERGS---My tent of choice is a Hilleberg but Hillebergs are not perfect. They have a design flaw with their hanging interiors held up by stretchable elastic. And these interiors tend to shrink and drape over or onto the foot of a sleeping bag. This is routine with the Akto and noticeable with the Staika and the Nallo and the Nammatj and the Allak and Soulo. I call it The Incredible Shrinking Tent. The reason I like the Keron tunnel so much is because it has vertical head and foot ends.

ANOTHER FACT: Tents can get copious amounts of condensation even without human occupancy. I recently had a tent set up in the back yard during a cold snap but didn't use it one night and in the morning I came out and found it heavily condensated inside.

[hikingshoes]

I had read that but i think that has been taken care of.HS

[Strategic]

This sound perilously like Robin Hood: Men in Tights:

Robin: I am Robin Hood and these are my merry men.

Friar Tuckman: Fagelas?

Robin: No, just merry.

[TyTy]

Anyway , if seam sealing or stuff like that is a bother , I would definitely not recommend a Tarptent, there are plenty of other choices...
Franco

I think that is minimizing my concerns. Seam sealing is one thing because a lot of tents require seam sealing but what I am talking about is a lot more. We are talking about the idea that without customer treatment, water can go through the material. Then on the floor, without customer treatment your sleeping pad will slip. So you have to get your tent, seam seal it, paint or spray the fly so it doesn't mist, and paint/cover the floor with silnylon so it doesn't leak and your pad doesn't slip. To me this is more like buying a car and the dealer tells me I just have to paint on clear-coat, undercoat the chassis, and scotchgard the seats before I can use it reliably.

I guess the bottom line from a ton of reading (both here and on BPL) is that TT uses silnylon with a 1200mm static head, SMD uses 2000mm static head, and Lightheart uses 3500mm static head. TT has the most complaints of misting, SMD has little if any complaints of misting, and Lightheart basically has no complaints of misting. This tells me that somewhere between 1200 and 2000 you almost alleviate misting, 3500 all but eliminates misting.

I guess I just wish TT would just use or offer their awesome designs (my personal favorites) in 3500mm silnylon so that misting was not a concern (also I assume this would greatly help or alleviate the kneeling on the floor and getting seepage effect).

However...I just had another thought...what is the difference in 1200mm, 2000mm, and 3500mm silnylon? Does it all weight the same? If it does (I assume it does) then what makes 1200, 1200 and what makes 3500, 3500? Is it just the coating? If it was thread density wouldn't that change the weight? My point being, maybe spraying some extra silicone on 1200mm essentially makes it 3500mm silnylon?

[Franco]

The bottom line is that a good percentage of TT buyers are repeat buyers.
Not unusual to see a TT for sale because the customer is buying another, just as I had many Nikon/Canon owners coming in every year to buy the latest version.
The reason why many don't buy Hillebergs and the like is simply because even if they could afford it why would they use a 6 pound tent when a 2-3 pound one does the job ?
In fact many think a 2 pound job is too heavy and use a 1 pound tarp...
(Tipi Walter, the fabric of the Scarp 1/2 does not come into contact with the fly and you do have 84" of usable space (15" high at the end) )
Not a coincidence that Hilleberg are releasing "3 season" shelters next year. If everybody needed "bombproof" shelters, why would they bother ?
BTW the SS1/2 and the new shelters are all made with what you call the 2000 mm fabric.

Also, , there is no 3500 silnylon available in the US and Henry is not all that interested in having his shelters made in China.
Franco

[TyTy]

BTW the SS1/2 and the new shelters are all made with what you call the 2000 mm fabric.
Franco

Interesting. I think you just made up my mind between Notch and Moment.

[Colter]

Part of backpacking and camping is having and using a shelter that can be put up anywhere with little or no consideration to "site selection".

How about in a swamp? A depression in hard packed soil in a pounding rain? An exposed ridge in a lightning storm? A boulder field? In a stand of dead trees in a wind storm?

Personally, I always try to think about my site selection. There are many important factors to consider. Some can be partially mitigated by a "bombproof tent," some can't.

I prefer to spend more time on site selection which allows me to carry a lighter shelter. Some choose to carry a heavier shelter which can be set up in a wider spectrum of sites. It's another personal choice.

Dealing with condensation is primarily about attitude for me. Usually there's little or none. It doesn't "soak" my bag, and in worst case situations I just mop it up with a bandana.

[10-K]

To me this is more like buying a car and the dealer tells me I just have to paint on clear-coat, undercoat the chassis, and scotchgard the seats before I can use it reliably.



Just for some comic relief, I bought a 2010 Jeep Wrangler last month and I took it back to the dealership because even when you pull the parking brake all the way up the Jeep will creep backwards on a hill if it's not in 1st or reverse.

The tech took it back to the service department and came back about 45 minutes later and said it was not out of adjustment - that I should consider a wheel chock. (talk about a w t f moment....).

I've since found out that this is pretty common and just one of the many quirks of owning a Wrangler.

[TyTy]

Just for some comic relief, I bought a 2010 Jeep Wrangler last month and I took it back to the dealership because even when you pull the parking brake all the way up the Jeep will creep backwards on a hill if it's not in 1st or reverse.The tech took it back to the service department and came back about 45 minutes later and said it was not out of adjustment - that I should consider a wheel chock. (talk about a w t f moment....).I've since found out that this is pretty common and just one of the many quirks of owning a Wrangler.That's nuts. Gotta be an aftermarket solution for that. Jeeps have such a huge following for aftermarket solutions and accessories.I went ahead and ordered the notch. I like that it apparently uses 2000mm static head sil, I love the design, and I like thaylt I can use just the fly to experimentation with tarping. Can't wait to get it now.

[Big Dawg]

I went ahead and ordered the notch. I like that it apparently uses 2000mm static head sil, I love the design, and I like thaylt I can use just the fly to experimentation with tarping. Can't wait to get it now.

Ordered the Notch too!! Trying to think of the best excuse to tell my wife why I need ANOTHER tent,,, haha. She starts to get glassy eyed when I start talking ounces and grams and new fangled features!! I guess I'll just point to her handbag collection, lol.

[Singletrack]

So the new TT Notch has a 2000 HH. Correct? How much seam sealing is required?
The bottom line is that a good percentage of TT buyers are repeat buyers.
Not unusual to see a TT for sale because the customer is buying another, just as I had many Nikon/Canon owners coming in every year to buy the latest version.
The reason why many don't buy Hillebergs and the like is simply because even if they could afford it why would they use a 6 pound tent when a 2-3 pound one does the job ?
In fact many think a 2 pound job is too heavy and use a 1 pound tarp...
(Tipi Walter, the fabric of the Scarp 1/2 does not come into contact with the fly and you do have 84" of usable space (15" high at the end) )
Not a coincidence that Hilleberg are releasing "3 season" shelters next year. If everybody needed "bombproof" shelters, why would they bother ?
BTW the SS1/2 and the new shelters are all made with what you call the 2000 mm fabric.

Also, , there is no 3500 silnylon available in the US and Henry is not all that interested in having his shelters made in China.
Franco

[Franco]

"So the new TT Notch has a 2000 HH. Correct?
Actually I never said that. What I did say is that it is the same silnylon that TyTy called "2000mm" .

The real rating is unknown to me ...

How much seam sealing is required?

I have not had a Notch so far, so not too sure about how long it takes.
The most seams I think are in the Strato Spire 2, or maybe that is just my impression having done only two of them.
(ever notice that when you do the same trail after a few times it seems to get shorter ?)
Knowing the size of the Notch and where the seams are , I would estimate it will take me about 40min or so to do.
pretty easy because all the seams are straight. (I use a syringe to do the sleeves...)
Franco

[Big Dawg]

My Notch is en route, per UPS tracking... and I'm pretty stoked!!!

[TyTy]

Mine too. Also they just put the setup video on the site.

[Singletrack]

Franco said, he did not know what the Hydostatic Head of the Notch was. Do either of you know?

[TyTy]

Franco said, he did not know what the Hydostatic Head of the Notch was. Do either of you know?

I am not sure but Franco said it uses what I call 2000mm static head. What I was calling 2000mm static head is what I read Six Moon Designs uses. From reading previous threads SMD and TT buy their sil nylon from the same manufacturer but SMD buys one type and TT buys another. In other threads I saw where the owner of SMD was saying his stuff had a different coating that had a higher static head rating (2000mm versus 1200mm that TT was using) and the reason why TT didnt use the same stuff SMD used was because the stuff SMD uses was slightly less flexible or something.

So I think what I asked and Franco is saying is that he will not say what exactly the static head is, but that the three new TT designs (Notch, Stratospire 1, Stratospire 2) are using the same silnylon that SMD uses. Therefore I am reasoning that this silnylon is the 2000mm static head that SMD uses.

Really I don't care what exactly the static head number is but I have read that SMD has less or no complaints of misting.

To add a little more knowledge, I have read that Lightheart tents use sil that has a 3500mm static head and basically does not mist at all but I think theirs is much more expensive.

[bamboo bob]

I used the Rainbow on the PCT until Washington. I agree with everyone about the condensation issue but in real stormy weather it's not all that good. That pathetic little "bath tub floor" can be a problem and I think like a lot of "lite" gear it gives up a lot in strength. I switched to the fairly lite MSR Hubba1 it's pretty bomb proof and condensation free.

[FamilyGuy]

The Rainbow that I have used can be set up with trekking poles vertically at each long side (i.e. one by the door). The ends fit into grommets designed for this purpose. What you get then is a LOT of stability. Essentially a 3 pole design.

[hshires]

I used the Rainbow on the PCT until Washington. I agree with everyone about the condensation issue but in real stormy weather it's not all that good. That pathetic little "bath tub floor" can be a problem and I think like a lot of "lite" gear it gives up a lot in strength. I switched to the fairly lite MSR Hubba1 it's pretty bomb proof and condensation free.

Not that it's any consolation to your 2009 PCT thruhike but the Rainbow underwent a subsequent major revision and the bathtub floor is deeper/better tensioned now along with a host of over improvements including the availability of a 4-ounce breathable liner which you would have found really useful for condensation in cooler/wetter climates. Properly staked, especially with trekking poles, the current generation Rainbow is pretty solid.

-H

[Big Dawg]

I received my TT Notch recently, and I have to say I'm really impressed. The new design features, TT quality, and all at 26 ozs,, WOW!!!

Hey Will, your PM storage was maxed, couldn't send you a new PM regarding the Notch.

[TyTy]

I got my Notch last week and sadly I feel it is too small for me. Granted I am 6' tall, 260 lbs and I wear a size 50 jacket. The tent is AWESOME in every way just too small for me in the shoulder area specifically. I mean I fit in there but it just felt tight in the arms/shoulder area. The inner net at the shoulder area angles inwards so when I raised my arms up they touch the screen and felt claustrophobic.

So I emailed and told Henry and he suggested, and I agreed, to order a StratoSprire I for more room. After I did that I decided I wanted to try a Moment so I ordered one of those too. Henry was nice enough to offer to take my Notch in return but I had it setup outside for a day and it rained while it was setup. I don't want to stick him with a 'used' tent so I plan to sell it for a slight discount then decide between the SS1 and Moment from there.

[nawlunz]

Big Dawg....thanks....have now made room. Would love to know the details

[Franco]

TyTy
If the Notch is too small for you , the Moment could be too.
The StratoSpire 1 has a 32" x86" rectangular floor, not tapered like the other two.
In fact you can drop the floor down to fit two 20" mats inside it.
Franco

[TyTy]

TyTy
If the Notch is too small for you , the Moment could be too.
The StratoSpire 1 has a 32" x86" rectangular floor, not tapered like the other two.
In fact you can drop the floor down to fit two 20" mats inside it.
Franco

You are probably right about the Moment being too small I just figured I might as well order one and give it a try. Henry said the same thing. I just love the simplicity of setup on the Moment and ability to go freestanding. I was dead set on ordering a Moment until the three new designs came out so I figured I might as well give it a try if nothing else to put my mind at ease.

[Papa D]

my MSR Carbon Reflex is light, bombproof, and comforable - I wish it was free standing like the regular Hubba but I can rig it quasi-free standing - it's nice to hike in the rain and light to medium snow and KNOW that you will sleep DRY, period, without much hassle

[FamilyGuy]

my MSR Carbon Reflex is light, bombproof, and comforable - I wish it was free standing like the regular Hubba but I can rig it quasi-free standing - it's nice to hike in the rain and light to medium snow and KNOW that you will sleep DRY, period, without much hassle

Having used a Hubba which has the same foot print as the Carbon Reflex 1 but more headroom and now the Notch, I can confidently say that the Notch has noticeably more volume of space. I am 6'1" and 215lbs for reference. The more I read about failure of the carbon pole gives me some concern as well. MSR will replace it but if it shatters in the field, then what. Not to mention it has an MSRP of.....$450.

[Big Dawg]

Big Dawg....thanks....have now made room. Would love to know the details

Details... well, for me the Notch is perfect for what I want in a solo shelter. I love the combination of a relatively small footprint, separate fly/netting enclosure (creating 2 wall design, and the ability to set up independantly from each other), ability to set up w/ hiking poles, 2 vestibules/doors, no wasted space, airflow options, lightweight (26ozs), and TT quality. To me,,, a complete package!! Also, I'm a big guy,, 6'5" and 275#'s. I don't have the elbow room of a 2 man tent, but that's ok w/ me. When I car camp, or am on a leisure backpacking trip, then a heavier 2 man tent is ok. But for my section hikes, I try to go as light as possible, and the room and protection of a tent like the Notch is plenty big enough. After all, I'm just sleeping in it,, not lounging in it for an afternoon. Overall, I can't be more pleased. I haven't taken it on a trip yet, but feel it will hold up great due to my success w/ other TT tents. Bravo Henry!!

PS. Even though I haven't taken it on a trip, I did set it up during a very windy day. It only took me a little over a minute to set up, and the tent was very stable and didn't flap, even though the gusts were pretty strong. The stitching and overall craftsmanship was top notch as always (pun intended :-).

[nawlunz]

Details... well, for me the Notch is perfect for what I want in a solo shelter. I love the combination of a relatively small footprint, separate fly/netting enclosure (creating 2 wall design, and the ability to set up independantly from each other), ability to set up w/ hiking poles, 2 vestibules/doors, no wasted space, airflow options, lightweight (26ozs), and TT quality. To me,,, a complete package!! Also, I'm a big guy,, 6'5" and 275#'s. I don't have the elbow room of a 2 man tent, but that's ok w/ me. When I car camp, or am on a leisure backpacking trip, then a heavier 2 man tent is ok. But for my section hikes, I try to go as light as possible, and the room and protection of a tent like the Notch is plenty big enough. After all, I'm just sleeping in it,, not lounging in it for an afternoon. Overall, I can't be more pleased. I haven't taken it on a trip yet, but feel it will hold up great due to my success w/ other TT tents. Bravo Henry!!

PS. Even though I haven't taken it on a trip, I did set it up during a very windy day. It only took me a little over a minute to set up, and the tent was very stable and didn't flap, even though the gusts were pretty strong. The stitching and overall craftsmanship was top notch as always (pun intended :-).



On some nights, I had to put my pack in the tent...either weather, and not interested in the marmots chewing on the pack...are the vestibules such that you have adequate space, or is there space at the end of the tent near the feet.....I am only 5'6" and weigh 158....so, not your size..Just curious!

[TyTy]

On some nights, I had to put my pack in the tent...either weather, and not interested in the marmots chewing on the pack...are the vestibules such that you have adequate space, or is there space at the end of the tent near the feet.....I am only 5'6" and weigh 158....so, not your size..Just curious!

The vestibles on the Notch are very large. I would say most people could fit their pack, shoes, and all their gear in one of the two equally sized vestibules.

[TyTy]

Details... well, for me the Notch is perfect for what I want in a solo shelter. I love the combination of a relatively small footprint, separate fly/netting enclosure (creating 2 wall design, and the ability to set up independantly from each other), ability to set up w/ hiking poles, 2 vestibules/doors, no wasted space, airflow options, lightweight (26ozs), and TT quality. To me,,, a complete package!! Also, I'm a big guy,, 6'5" and 275#'s. I don't have the elbow room of a 2 man tent, but that's ok w/ me. When I car camp, or am on a leisure backpacking trip, then a heavier 2 man tent is ok. But for my section hikes, I try to go as light as possible, and the room and protection of a tent like the Notch is plenty big enough. After all, I'm just sleeping in it,, not lounging in it for an afternoon. Overall, I can't be more pleased. I haven't taken it on a trip yet, but feel it will hold up great due to my success w/ other TT tents. Bravo Henry!!

PS. Even though I haven't taken it on a trip, I did set it up during a very windy day. It only took me a little over a minute to set up, and the tent was very stable and didn't flap, even though the gusts were pretty strong. The stitching and overall craftsmanship was top notch as always (pun intended :-).

That is interesting, you are a bigger guy than me (6', 260lbs, size 50 jacket) and I felt cramped in the Notch, mainly in the shoulder/arm area. I could lay down on my back and not be touching the screen but if I wanted to say, scratch my head I would touch the screen a good bit bringing my hand/arm up to my head. It just goes to show a lot of it is preference.

I got the Stratospire I last night and WOW! Tons of space. I mean there is a lot of space. It is truly a 1.5 man tent. The inner net walls are vertical too so there is really no touching the walls. I could probably sit up and turn around in there without touching the inner net tent walls.

One thing I like better about the Notch though is the symetry and 4 stake setup versus 6 on the SS1. They are both easy to setup but the Notch was easier. I would say they are both easier to setup than a traditional tent though because you are putting up the inner and outer and staking it all down all at the same time.

The other thing the SS1 gives you in comparison to the Notch is the rain protected entry with the doors rolled open. There is an overhang on the SS1 to where in a light drizzle or with condensation you can sleep with the doors open and the inner tent is protected by an overhang of the outer. On the Notch when the doors are rolled all the way open the net is exposed. I think that will be an advantage of the SS1 on warm nights with a chance of a little drizzle and with a little condensation I can sleep well knowing its not gonna get in.

I have a Moment on the way just to put my mind at ease but I am pretty sure I will end up using this TT SS1. I wish I could fit into the Notch comfortably but the extra 7 ounces aren't worth being uncomfortable.

[Big Dawg]

On some nights, I had to put my pack in the tent...either weather, and not interested in the marmots chewing on the pack...are the vestibules such that you have adequate space, or is there space at the end of the tent near the feet.....I am only 5'6" and weigh 158....so, not your size..Just curious!

Yes, Plenty of space.


The vestibles on the Notch are very large. I would say most people could fit their pack, shoes, and all their gear in one of the two equally sized vestibules.

agree


That is interesting, you are a bigger guy than me (6', 260lbs, size 50 jacket) and I felt cramped in the Notch, mainly in the shoulder/arm area. I could lay down on my back and not be touching the screen but if I wanted to say, scratch my head I would touch the screen a good bit bringing my hand/arm up to my head. It just goes to show a lot of it is preference.

I got the Stratospire I last night and WOW! Tons of space. I mean there is a lot of space. It is truly a 1.5 man tent. The inner net walls are vertical too so there is really no touching the walls. I could probably sit up and turn around in there without touching the inner net tent walls.

One thing I like better about the Notch though is the symetry and 4 stake setup versus 6 on the SS1. They are both easy to setup but the Notch was easier. I would say they are both easier to setup than a traditional tent though because you are putting up the inner and outer and staking it all down all at the same time.

The other thing the SS1 gives you in comparison to the Notch is the rain protected entry with the doors rolled open. There is an overhang on the SS1 to where in a light drizzle or with condensation you can sleep with the doors open and the inner tent is protected by an overhang of the outer. On the Notch when the doors are rolled all the way open the net is exposed. I think that will be an advantage of the SS1 on warm nights with a chance of a little drizzle and with a little condensation I can sleep well knowing its not gonna get in.

I have a Moment on the way just to put my mind at ease but I am pretty sure I will end up using this TT SS1. I wish I could fit into the Notch comfortably but the extra 7 ounces aren't worth being uncomfortable.

I guess feeling cramped is relative,, yes, I brush up against netting, but it "gives", and doesn't restrict me, so I ignore it. The trade-off of a lighter tent, less stakes, and smaller footprint overrides any minor cramped feeling I have. Also, comparing the Notch to the SS1, I like the fact that the foot/head ends of the interior align with the triangular strut section of the exterior, allowing my sleeping bag overhang to stay away from exterior tent walls. That's always been an issue w/ me,, one that is resolved w/ the Moment/Notch.

[TyTy]

I like the fact that the foot/head ends of the interior align with the triangular strut section of the exterior, allowing my sleeping bag overhang to stay away from exterior tent walls. That's always been an issue w/ me,, one that is resolved w/ the Moment/Notch.

I didn't think about that. Good point.

I should get my Moment today so I will have a Notch, SS1, and Moment all at my house. I think I'm gonna set them all three up and take a picture of them, look at each one and think about all the different points then make my decision. I will say I am leaning pretty heavy towards the SS1 though at this point.

[Big Dawg]

I didn't think about that. Good point.

I should get my Moment today so I will have a Notch, SS1, and Moment all at my house. I think I'm gonna set them all three up and take a picture of them, look at each one and think about all the different points then make my decision. I will say I am leaning pretty heavy towards the SS1 though at this point.

I'd love to see a pic of that. Let us know what you decide.

[Tinker]

Not that most folks are thinking about it this time of year, but I've sat in a few solo tents where it would be very easy to accidentally put your back or other tasty body parts against the mosquito netting while sleeping nearly naked (or maybe not so nearly) in the heat of summer. Just a thought I figured would be worth bringing up.

[Wil]

I've sat in a few solo tents where it would be very easy to accidentally put your back or other tasty body parts against the mosquito netting while sleeping nearly naked in the heat of summer.I used to routinely use a bug dome that covered my head, shoulders and upper body (and then draped over the midsection of the sleeping bag. One night, asleep, I stretched out my arm so the forearm lay touching against the netting. Woke up with dozens of mosquito bites. Only needed to happen once.

[TyTy]

Not that most folks are thinking about it this time of year, but I've sat in a few solo tents where it would be very easy to accidentally put your back or other tasty body parts against the mosquito netting while sleeping nearly naked (or maybe not so nearly) in the heat of summer. Just a thought I figured would be worth bringing up.

I thought about that when trying out the Notch. With the SS1 it wouldn't happen.

[TyTy]

BTW my Moment comes on the 5th, not the 3rd like I thought. I will put them all up this weekend and take a pic.

[TyTy]

Got the Moment. First impression...WOW it sets up fast and easy! It took longer to roll it up and put it back in the stuff sack then it did to setup.

As far as size, it felt less constricting than the Notch. The floors are about the same width in the shoulder area but the walls on the Moment don't narrow like they do on the Notch so I could reach up and scratch my face or adjust my pillow without touching the walls. The Notch almost immediately felt too small to me, the Moment did not. When I got in the Notch my first thought was 'oh, I don't think I could do this' and my first thought in the Moment was 'oh this isn't bad, I could deal with this'.

So this weekend I am going to set all three up and try them one more time but I am pretty sure the Notch isn't going to work for me and I am deciding between the smaller, slightly lighter, super fast setup Moment, or the larger, more ventilation, double wall SS1.

It really boils down to are you willing to give up the plush space, maximum ventilation, double wall of the SS1 for the extreme fast setup, freestanding ability and simplicity of the Moment.

[nawlunz]

Got the Moment. First impression...WOW it sets up fast and easy! It took longer to roll it up and put it back in the stuff sack then it did to setup.

As far as size, it felt less constricting than the Notch. The floors are about the same width in the shoulder area but the walls on the Moment don't narrow like they do on the Notch so I could reach up and scratch my face or adjust my pillow without touching the walls. The Notch almost immediately felt too small to me, the Moment did not. When I got in the Notch my first thought was 'oh, I don't think I could do this' and my first thought in the Moment was 'oh this isn't bad, I could deal with this'.

So this weekend I am going to set all three up and try them one more time but I am pretty sure the Notch isn't going to work for me and I am deciding between the smaller, slightly lighter, super fast setup Moment, or the larger, more ventilation, double wall SS1.

It really boils down to are you willing to give up the plush space, maximum ventilation, double wall of the SS1 for the extreme fast setup, freestanding ability and simplicity of the Moment.


A question that has dogged mankind for some time now....actually, one that I would like answered :)))

[TyTy]

I set them all up together today and blew up my mat and it helped make up my mind to keep the SS1 because of the space and ventilation, mainly the space. It just fits me better, the other two I think I would be slightly uncomfortable for me. Sorry I didn't get a picture, rain cloud was coming over and I wanted to.get the two I am now going to sell put up before it rained.Just to restate it so anyone reading this thread is sure to see I am 260 lbs, size 50-52 jacket, 6' tall so not small. I think even big guys might be fine in the notch or moment, a lot of it is preference and I get a little closterphobic feeling sometimes.

[Tinker]

I wonder if you could hang a Lightheart Solo tent upside down and thread a hammock through it. Hmmmmmmmmm. Wouldn't need the fly since the floor would become one.

HEY JUDYYYYYYYYYYYYYY........... :)

[The Mighty Tiberious]

Been following this thread with interest. Been looking for a light tent and thought I wanted the TT Notch.

After reading the two of you discuss how tight the Notch is, I am having second thoughts! I am 6'2" 290LB.

The TT Moment looks time consuming to set up and dial in?

StratoSpire 1: why not just go with Squall 2 for the same weight?

Just when I thought I had choose a Tent! Not sure what I should do now?

[Del Q]

Tarptent Squall 2 34 ounces

I have been out in some pretty nasty storms and this tent has been pretty weatherproof. Misting has been a LITTLE bit of an issue but nothing too concerning. Would like to go to a cuben fiber tent. Lighter, more waterproof, expensive.

Would like save some more weight............trying to justify spending $500 on new gear, at or below 20 ounces for a more waterproof shelter is tempting.

[Franco]

The Mighty Tiberious
The Moment is the easiest/fastest shelter I have set up .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWZQKivY2SA&list=UU0PuLUKvG7Fxxex5BMVK4vw&index=42&feature=plcp
I can (on a speed test...) do the Contrail in the same time but on avarage the Moment is faster.
The Notch is somewhat similar .
here is a size comparison between the Notch, the SS12 and the Contrail .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIt1Oezq2GQ&list=UU0PuLUKvG7Fxxex5BMVK4vw&index=2&feature=plcp
The Squall is a two person version of the Contrail
Franco

[The Mighty Tiberious]

Thanks Franco.

Nice job on the videos.

You have been in all 3? Do you think the Notch is too small for a guy my size? I roll around a lot. Side sleep. With out trying them out I do not think touching the net while moving around would bother me. But if I get shut in due to bad weather I do not know how I will feel about extend non sleep hours in a small tent? Would hope I would be in a shelter?

Priority is light weight. Shelter is full back up tent. Fast set up. Bug protection in hot summer.

Starting Thru Feb 15.

[Franco]

Because of our difference in size TyTy may have a better perspective .
The Notch apex is at 43" so for a start I you should compare that with the tents you have used possibly if they had a similar apex shape (IE pointed not flat)
The SS1 has another 5" more .
The sides if you don't mind touching the net should be OK, there is room at either side between that and the fly .
However if you have a lot of biting insect resting against the net may not be ideal and one of the reasons why I don't like the non shaped bugnets.
You could do what TyTy did, get the two with the understanding you will send one back. It will just cost you the return postage.
Franco

[TyTy]

Because of our difference in size TyTy may have a better perspective .
The Notch apex is at 43" so for a start I you should compare that with the tents you have used possibly if they had a similar apex shape (IE pointed not flat)
The SS1 has another 5" more .
The sides if you don't mind touching the net should be OK, there is room at either side between that and the fly .
However if you have a lot of biting insect resting against the net may not be ideal and one of the reasons why I don't like the non shaped bugnets.
You could do what TyTy did, get the two with the understanding you will send one back. It will just cost you the return postage.
Franco

The only place I felt constricted in the Notch was in the shoulder arm area. Not particularly when I laid still or in any sleeping position so much, mainly when I went to raise my arms, say to scratch my face, adjust my pillow etc. When I did those things my arms had to touch the netting to get to my face and that kind of freaked me out, made me feel claustrophobic. The netting on the Notch kind of narrows a little as it goes up. With the SS1 the walls of the netting are straight up so you get the full 32" or more side to side and all the way up to the roof. I probably could have dealt with the Notch but being a little claustrophobic of a person I leaned towards taking on a little more weight and setup for the luxury of the extra room. The other luxury that I obtained that I am pumped about is the ability in the SS1 to sleep with both doors completly open yet still be covered from a little rain drizzle or dew.

[The Mighty Tiberious]

Good post TyTy, DelQ

Maybe I should try both and see if I can return the one I am not going to use?

Still looking for a Pack that will fit my larger frame. Created a new thread under packs

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=80427


I appreciate everyone's help.
-TJ (Mighty)

[Big Dawg]

Good post TyTy, DelQ

Maybe I should try both and see if I can return the one I am not going to use?

Still looking for a Pack that will fit my larger frame. Created a new thread under packs

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=80427


I appreciate everyone's help.
-TJ (Mighty)

so which is it, 290 lbs or 385 lbs :confused:;):) just messin!!!

[English Stu]

I have the Moment and used it my section hike in the 100 mile Wilderness and extensively in the UK. I had the Contrail before which I used on the AT and the JMT. I have also had a Golite Tarp on the AT. I find the Moment the better set up, the floor space is certainly adequate and the headroom beats the other set ups. A major plus is that shape and lack of guylines make it easier to find camping spots.i.e no long lines to get mixed up in undergrowth.

[The Mighty Tiberious]

Was 290 now 285. Miss typed a 3 out of habbit. Use to be 305+.
6'2". Carry my weight like thick guy with a belly.
Never been above 315 LB.
Shoulders are 59" around.
Walking 2.5-4 miles everyday for prep. I know the first month is going to be slow and sore.

I hope to drop enough to squeeze into XL sizes. Before leaving. No clue how much weight I may drop on a Thru Hike? 30-45 LB?

Hope to set out for GA Feb 20 plus or minus 5 days?

Still have not choose my bag, pack, tent or stove.

Want: Western Mountaineering, ULA? Or Jam, Notch (too small for my shoulders) rethinking, JetBoil.
Have posts in those subjects.

Not a Ultralight but hope to use the techniques to get base under 24#

Everyone has been a lot of help on WB. Avoided some costly mistakes.

Was going to use a 12 year old heavy synthetic bag. 4.5 LB
Big Mistake.

Was going to Choose a pack from a local shop that would have been 4 LB heaver then needed. Mistake!

Was looking at a 4 Lb tent think it was light. Mistake!

Was NOT going to take Walking Poles.
?Mistake from what I read I may have just saved my knees?

Regular Tarp. Mistake. Going to use Tyvex.

Big Hiking Books. Mistake! Too long to dry out. Blisters?
Going to take light Trail Runners as back up and use my Chaco's (sandals as main foot wear) with a water proof sock for cold rain most of the trip. Nothing I have ever wore is as comfortable and boot like.

Other Data books. Mistake! Hands down everyone seems to prefer The AT guide by AWOL. I thought AWOL was just the name of a Travel Essay about the AT.

Regular compression sack for sleeping bag. Mistake!
Might have had a few wet nights?

I could go on. Thanks White Blaze users. Keep the great info coming.

-TJ. Mighty Tiberious

[Franco]

If you feel that the Notch is too small, as discussed, I would think that most solo shelters will be , so maybe for the extra 7 oz the SS1 might still be one to consider.
Franco

[Big Dawg]

Was 290 now 285. Miss typed a 3 out of habbit. Use to be 305+.
6'2". Carry my weight like thick guy with a belly.
Never been above 315 LB.

-TJ. Mighty Tiberious

Ahhhh,, ok! I'm close to your weight, but a bit taller. All your other detail sounds good. I tried trail runners, but they just didn't hold up under the weight of Big James,, lol. A 50 mile hike put a serious hurtin on a pair I thought were rock sold. Went back to leather boots, and glad I did. This big frame needs some sturdy footing to tromp thru the mountains! Rarely have blisters while wearing my boots.

Anyway,, sounds like your on your way to "ready". Have a blast!!!

[The Mighty Tiberious]

I am now looking at the SS1. I am still tempted to go with the Notch as this is a back up to a full shelter.

If I can make do in the Notch once a week for the lighter weight it might be worth it? I am getting more worried about Condensation in any tarp tent.

The threads on WB all say I will be damp in a tarp tent.

If I go over 30 oz maybe I should go to a double wall.

It's my first Thru and I do not know how I will like using the Shelters?

I roll around a lot. Do not think a Hammock would work for this reason.

Just want to be dry. Should be able to deal with narrow walls?

Shoulders are 31-32" wide (not around the body).

[Del Q]

In the end, you might wind up spending a LOT of nights in shelters.

The "difference between men & boys is the price of their toys", as of now cuben fiber seems to be the (current) state of the art on the gear front. Expensive, yup. Not sure of your budget or financial situation but if I were going on a thru hike that is what I would be carrying.

Light, waterproof.

[nawlunz]

If you feel that the Notch is too small, as discussed, I would think that most solo shelters will be , so maybe for the extra 7 oz the SS1 might still be one to consider.
Franco

OK, I am 5 feet, 6 in. ....160lbs...Do you think I will feel comfortable with the Notch? Also, can anyone nail down the real differences between the NOTCH and MOMENT?

[Franco]

I am about 2" taller than you about the same weight (at the moment...) and a year younger, so I think that you will fit in there really nicely.
(You should be able to tell by the way I move inside it in my video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIt1Oezq2GQ&list=UU0PuLUKvG7Fxxex5BMVK4vw&index=2&feature=plcp)
The Notch is a Moment designed to be used with trekking poles. Because of that it is larger but lighter.
Another advantage is the double vestibule/ double entry.
Great if the weather changes, if you want to ignore another tent on one side of you or to watch the sunset from one side and the sunrise from the other as I have in a few occasions.
(with the Scarp)
Some will like the two walls so that you can either use the inner as a bug net by itself or the fly by itself , for example to get more room under if you have a mate in there playing cards or eating...

The Moment on the other hand is faster to set up, easy to do (for me) on snow and you can add the extra pole for a freestanding mode.
BTW, I have not tried the Notch on snow but I set up tents in my head too, so I can "see" how to do it.
That helps with snow loading too (not a winter tent but good enough for me...)
Franco
My fav Moment...
15026

[Singletrack]

I am now looking at the SS1. I am still tempted to go with the Notch as this is a back up to a full shelter.

If I can make do in the Notch once a week for the lighter weight it might be worth it? I am getting more worried about Condensation in any tarp tent.

The threads on WB all say I will be damp in a tarp tent.

If I go over 30 oz maybe I should go to a double wall.

It's my first Thru and I do not know how I will like using the Shelters?

I roll around a lot. Do not think a Hammock would work for this reason.

Just want to be dry. Should be able to deal with narrow walls?

Shoulders are 31-32" wide (not around the body).
Take a look at the Lightheart Solo, double wall shelter, with 3500 HH. With stakes, and seam sealing, will be 30 ounces.

[nawlunz]

I am about 2" taller than you about the same weight (at the moment...) and a year younger, so I think that you will fit in there really nicely.
(You should be able to tell by the way I move inside it in my video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIt1Oezq2GQ&list=UU0PuLUKvG7Fxxex5BMVK4vw&index=2&feature=plcp)
The Notch is a Moment designed to be used with trekking poles. Because of that it is larger but lighter.
Another advantage is the double vestibule/ double entry.
Great if the weather changes, if you want to ignore another tent on one side of you or to watch the sunset from one side and the sunrise from the other as I have in a few occasions.
(with the Scarp)
Some will like the two walls so that you can either use the inner as a bug net by itself or the fly by itself , for example to get more room under if you have a mate in there playing cards or eating...

The Moment on the other hand is faster to set up, easy to do (for me) on snow and you can add the extra pole for a freestanding mode.
BTW, I have not tried the Notch on snow but I set up tents in my head too, so I can "see" how to do it.
That helps with snow loading too (not a winter tent but good enough for me...)
Franco
My fav Moment...
15026



Franco,
VERY HELPFUL!! THanks!