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Wise Old Owl
11-27-2011, 15:25
Well a couple of things happened on the last batch... When you dry foods such as meats some of the flavor disappears. Possibly because the the vapor from hot foods carry particles that help identify what you are eating... once its in the mouth chewing rehydrates a little and the flavor is released.

So I have learned to add a little heat - which means I keep a couple of things handy at all times

Malt Vinegar (Heintz)
Apple Cider Vinegar
Wrights Liquid Smoke- Its just smoke - nothing else.
Kikkoman Light Soy - hands down best flavor soy on the shelf

Texas Hot Sauce... go easy on it.. a teaspoon.

Chilli Powder
Cayenne Powder
Paprika
Mesquite (McCormick) - love this stuff - yea there's the salt.
Fresh Crack Pepper from a pepper mill (aroma)

Soy and Vinegar are there to acidify or cure the meat and prevent molding. - today I found that you should use one or the other - but not both....

I dropped using salt - because its frequently hidden in the BBQ sauces and other spice combinations - in large quantity - add it and it will come up too salty after drying.

When choosing to make a sauce vs buying a bottle - avoid ones that have karo syrup or corn syrup - it turns the coat sticky.

if you are making a sauce small quantity of light molasses or honey will add the sweet.

So when you are soaking the meat in the bowl the sauce is already close to the flavor.... if its bland, it will turn out bland. This is a big hint to add a cup of Apple Cider Vinegar and mix it in. You should soak in the sauce for several hours....

Add the Pepper to the coat after tray placement - visual appeal

do not throw away left over sauce... after drying you can baste brush more of it on and dry for another hour and that adds a "gloss" to the coat.

today I added a cup of olive oil to the sauce and went with a thicker cut. - to see if it will make it more flexable and less dry - a soft chew.

I have a theory - that a lot of taste testing goes into top quality BBQ sauce to for wide mass appeal on the market.. Then they screw it up by mass production and "watering it down" with Corn Syrup to make lots of money and cheapening the product. Perhaps to sell it more like a flavor than a BBQ sauce. Emeril Lagasse is a good example - never do you see him use corn syrup - but his name brand sauces are the worst. Last year you all raved about Sweet Baby Rays - Well the Sweet is Kero, but if you like it - that's fine.

Guy Fieri - REVIEW (http://www.patiodaddiobbq.com/2011/07/review-guy-fieri-bbq-sauces.html)gave a new line of sauce that is very bold and surprising. - I can't wait to make up a batch with the burbon sauce.


Well most of this is just a neat experience of making Jerky for a couple of years...
I hope you all like making Jerky this year... Just got fired up again for Christmas - thinking about making it for the relatives if I can soften it up and have it not look like road kill.

Wise Old Owl
10-07-2013, 02:22
I went to a butcher two days ago and found he could make a marbled shoulder of London Broil at a very good price... it took me a long time to slice it up on the slicer and I went thin... This reduces the dry time to four hours. Reasonably soft and good chew far from road kill. The marbling shrinks and doesn't show. Never soak more than 8 hours.

Cheap vinegars do make a difference.

Found 1 winner.
If one pound of meat - 1 cup Good Apple Cider Vinegar and 1/2 cup Red Wine Vinegar - McCormick's Carolina Rub (entire packet). 8 hour soak, Tray it fresh crack pepper on top. 5 hour dry at 160

Never saw a Jerky disappear so fast.

Traffic Jam
10-07-2013, 10:12
Thanks for the info WOW. How thin did you slice the meat?

Just Bill
10-07-2013, 23:33
You try a smoker yet WOO?, been a dozen years since I used one, but always the best homemade jerky IMO. The electric one makes a nice combination dehydrator/smoker. Little Chief was the brand if I remember right. I found you didn't have to babysit it, just fill the chip tray once to get a good "bark", then let the heating element finish the drying. I want to say I used to wedge a quarter in the door to let in a little air because it ran a little hot. Once I stopped futzing with refilling the tray I found it much more pleasant to use. For acid, I used to use Orange Juice, and for heat and extra smoke flavor- chipotle peppers with adobo sauce. I added a little here and there, but that was my basic marinade. The sugars in the OJ helped it "bark" up a bit quicker in the smoker too. Pineapple juice is a good one too, if either juice leaves it tasting a bit sweet, add in some lime juice. Chipotle Lime with Cilantro and Garlic is good too- but hold the soak to 4 hours as the lime juice base seemed to break it down pretty quick.

Wise Old Owl
10-10-2013, 08:26
244002440124402

This was June of this year, here is a recent test-natural hardwood charcoal and hickory chip with 2 gallons of hot water - low and slow 200degrees for 5 hours brisket and 20 minute mops and Lamb Ribs with a Rosemary and Ginger rub.

I remember I used a Memphis Mop
Prep Time: 10 minute

Yield: Makes 3 1/4 cups

Ingredients:



2 cups apply cider vinegar
1 cup water
1/4 cup Memphis Rub (http://bbq.about.com/od/rubrecipes/r/Memphis-Rub.htm)



Brush on every 1/2 hour to 20 minutes provided the temp doesn drop too low.

You have to renew the charcoal and chip after three hours.

Traffic Jam
11-24-2013, 14:55
I went to a butcher two days ago and found he could make a marbled shoulder of London Broil at a very good price... it took me a long time to slice it up on the slicer and I went thin... This reduces the dry time to four hours. Reasonably soft and good chew far from road kill. The marbling shrinks and doesn't show. Never soak more than 8 hours.

Cheap vinegars do make a difference.

Found 1 winner.
If one pound of meat - 1 cup Good Apple Cider Vinegar and 1/2 cup Red Wine Vinegar - McCormick's Carolina Rub (entire packet). 8 hour soak, Tray it fresh crack pepper on top. 5 hour dry at 160

Never saw a Jerky disappear so fast.

Thanks for the recipe, I'm trying this today. I couldn't find Carolina Rub so I'm using Smokin' Texas BBQ for one lb. and Brown Sugar Bourbon for the other. I read a recommendation for a post dehydration oven treatment. Do you do this?

Wise Old Owl
11-24-2013, 15:23
If you have base spices - here is one way to do it... or buy a packet


(http://allrecipes.com/recipe/memphis-rub/)http://www.food.com/recipe/carolina-bbq-rub-191035

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/memphis-rub/

Wise Old Owl
11-24-2013, 15:28
I went to a butcher two days ago and found he could make a marbled shoulder of London Broil at a very good price... it took me a long time to slice it up on the slicer and I went thin... This reduces the dry time to four hours. Reasonably soft and good chew far from road kill. The marbling shrinks and doesn't show. Never soak more than 8 hours.

Cheap vinegars do make a difference.

Found 1 winner.
If one pound of meat - 1 cup Good Apple Cider Vinegar and 1/2 cup Red Wine Vinegar - McCormick's Carolina Rub (entire packet). 8 hour soak, Tray it fresh crack pepper on top. 5 hour dry at 160

Never saw a Jerky disappear so fast.

I dumped the red wine idea... add a teaspoon of Red Hot Sauce. I run the Carolina Rub and Vinegar with a wisk then put the thin sliced meat in

Nyte
11-24-2013, 21:21
You can just dry the beef, without adding anything. Bring your temp down under 120 for best results, and get it as lean as possible.

Save that fat though, for rendering to tallow (very useful if you want to make Pemmicann, or use it in a pan to fry eggs, yum).

I am extremely sensitive to sodium, and did a bunch of searching and trying for jerky without sodium added at all. Meaning no salt, no soy, no Worchestersire, nothing with added sodium. Fun stuff, but I learned a lot.

The salt is added to both aid the drying process, by drawing moisture out, and as it is a mild anti-bacterial (good to know if you get a cut on the trail and have salt but nothing else, sugar can also work, honey is better than both). Sugar can be used for the same purpose, though I avoid all processed sugar as well, so while I tried it and it works (very sweet) no go for me. Honey is amazing for the same anti-bacterial, and lasts literally forever.

Some other spices and herbs help preserve or prevent bacteria and such from growing; pepper, garlic and ginger come to mind right off.

Smoke (fresh or liquid, and you can make your own liquid smoke, it's not terribly hard) inhibits bacterial growth as well, by coating the meat with a layer of nitrates. Tastes wonderful, but can play hell if you have blood pressure issues.

Many Native American tribes were known to dry red (and other) meat both by hanging it in smoke (smoking), and by hanging it in the sun to dry. Both were done alone and in conjunction with added herbs and spices.

I have found (for me, YMMV) that either drying plain, or with a dry rub of garlic powder, onion powder, black pepper, and sometimes a bit of dried ginger, both work very well, and taste amazing.

A note on keeping the temp to dry under 120; below a temp of 120, far more of the nutrients in the meat (and some say flavor as well) are retained. Meat dried fully in this way, kept out of the sun and moisture, should stay stable without refrigeration at least a year, though in hot, moist climates, without sealing it from the air, I wouldn't guess more than 3-6 months.

For Pemmicann, I prefer plain dried meat, and you get a lot of that "lost" flavor back from the tallow.

Wise Old Owl
11-25-2013, 02:55
"I am extremely sensitive to sodium?" what happens when you consume too much? I choose a low sodium diet that I have stuck with for the most part some 15 years. Part of the reason why I got interested in making Jerky. Low sodium Kikkoman is what I generally use as an acid to prevent molding or Apple Cider vinegar and a good 8 hour soak. IF any salt is added I have Morton Sea, Morton Lite, and if it is burger or ground meat - Morton Sugar Cure (Saltpeter) for its killing of pathogens...

I am having an issue with the last paragraph or statement its counter to what I have learned from science and repeated on Nova about food. I use 160 degrees for several hours for a couple of issues. Improperly preserved food is the most common form of food born botulism. Most of what I make I use in less than 6 months.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/422348-what-do-high-sodium-levels-mean/

Traffic Jam
11-25-2013, 08:38
My first attempt at jerky was moderately successful, meaning it's edible. Both batches are too vinegary. I added a few drops of habanero sauce to one batch and that one is VERY vinegary. If nothing else, I can dice it all up and add it to dehydrated meals. I'm excited about the endless possibilities of spices and flavors.

Nyte
11-25-2013, 10:59
"I am extremely sensitive to sodium?" what happens when you consume too much? I choose a low sodium diet that I have stuck with for the most part some 15 years. Part of the reason why I got interested in making Jerky. Low sodium Kikkoman is what I generally use as an acid to prevent molding or Apple Cider vinegar and a good 8 hour soak. IF any salt is added I have Morton Sea, Morton Lite, and if it is burger or ground meat - Morton Sugar Cure (Saltpeter) for its killing of pathogens...

I am having an issue with the last paragraph or statement its counter to what I have learned from science and repeated on Nova about food. I use 160 degrees for several hours for a couple of issues. Improperly preserved food is the most common form of food born botulism. Most of what I make I use in less than 6 months.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/422348-what-do-high-sodium-levels-mean/





If I consume too much sodium (generally more than is naturally found in the food I eat), my blood pressure spikes quite a lot, and I retain a lot of water, and much of it around the pericardial sack, which puts pressure on the heart and is the main lead up to congestive heart failure. This effect for me may not be normal for everyone, but is my experience through testing via numerous elimination diet processes.

Mold also does not grow where there is no moisture. I agree, Low sodium soy or salt is good for many to use, I simply cannot, not without physical distress.

As for the latter, much of those guidelines are devised first for people who do not practice careful sanitary measures, and as well due to the potentially contaminated nature of most meat that is grocery store purchased. The contamination comes from the meat packing plants, putting through so much meat per day, from varied sources.

Sanitation at these plants has improved drastically since those guidelines were written, though I wouldn't say they are perfect.

Notice I said that dehydrating at those temps retains the most nutrients and flavor, but did not make assertions concerning the temp's involvement in sanitation. It is the drying that makes the meat unsuitable to the pathogens, not the heat killing them, though when cooking, that is true.

You can dehydrate at higher temps, but really, anything over 150 starts to cook the meat, which changes a lot of things in the process. I have seen some methods where you dehydrate at the lower temps ( I have seen everything from 90-135), and then at the end, for the last few hours slowly raise the temp to 50-160, for that supposed benefit.

Also, most micro-organisms aren't killed till at least 225, so the 150-160 number is seemingly off, though it's origin has to do with center temp for roasts. The findings that led to it being, that if the center reaches 160, the outside (since the bacteria and other micro-organisms generally only can penetrate very shallowly into the meat surface) will have exceeded 225 for a sufficient time to kill them.

As well, if you are using salt (or sugar, even honey) the correct ways, it will kill the pathogens, regardless of heat. I present salted, "country", or "Virginia" ham. No where in the process is there actual cooking involved, just a lot of salt, which draws out the moisture, and while the moisture is still present, penetrates the meat. It is perfectly safe to eat such ham without cooking, and is shelf stable for years and years.

I am not saying everyone should do jerky this way, just that it can be done, for those who need or desire it. I needed to assess the viability, pre-made food, especially for trail food, can be deadly (maybe not immediately) for me, so I have to prepare almost all my own food, on and off trail.

Nyte
11-25-2013, 11:06
My first attempt at jerky was moderately successful, meaning it's edible. Both batches are too vinegary. I added a few drops of habanero sauce to one batch and that one is VERY vinegary. If nothing else, I can dice it all up and add it to dehydrated meals. I'm excited about the endless possibilities of spices and flavors.

Most hot sauces use vinegar as a base. If you want to make some that is spicy without overdoing the vinegar, dry a cup of vinegar, 2 tablespoons honey or 1/4 cup brown sugar, 1/2 teaspon garlic powder, 1/2 teaspoon onion powder, 1/4 teaspoon ginger powder, 1/4-1 tablespoon of dried ground or flaked pepper (habenero, jalapeno, cayenne, etc...), and 1/2 tablespoon black pepper (optional). That is as a base, increase or decrease as needed for the size of the batch you are making. Slice your meat to 1/4 inch strips, and let marinate for 6-12 hours (I have done longer with no problem). Dehydrate and enjoy.

Namtrag
11-25-2013, 11:20
Our batch tastes great, except we set it on 160 per the dehydrator instructions. It way overcooked the jerky, not just drying it out. Is 120-130 a better temp range so that we just dry the beef instead of incinerating it?

Nyte
11-25-2013, 12:33
Our batch tastes great, except we set it on 160 per the dehydrator instructions. It way overcooked the jerky, not just drying it out. Is 120-130 a better temp range so that we just dry the beef instead of incinerating it?


As I said above, I go lower than that, 90-110, and mine comes out great. It may take longer, but I usually set it up in the morning, after breakfast, and it is ready by the same time next day. YMMV

Farr Away
11-25-2013, 23:39
Our batch tastes great, except we set it on 160 per the dehydrator instructions. It way overcooked the jerky, not just drying it out. Is 120-130 a better temp range so that we just dry the beef instead of incinerating it?

If you can, try checking your dehydrator's actual temperature. It's probably not holding the temperature it says it is.

-FA

Pedaling Fool
11-26-2013, 08:45
Our batch tastes great, except we set it on 160 per the dehydrator instructions. It way overcooked the jerky, not just drying it out. Is 120-130 a better temp range so that we just dry the beef instead of incinerating it?Dehydrating instructions are really only guidelines. You should always just experiment using the "instructions" as a starting point.

One important factor is thickness of slices maybe they were a little thin and quantity is also a factor; the more you have the longer it will take. But that doesn't necessarily mean you need to adjust temp, maybe you should have just did less time. How long was you're jerky in for?

I would look at all that before lowering temp.

Nyte
11-26-2013, 11:23
Dehydrating instructions are really only guidelines. You should always just experiment using the "instructions" as a starting point.

One important factor is thickness of slices maybe they were a little thin and quantity is also a factor; the more you have the longer it will take. But that doesn't necessarily mean you need to adjust temp, maybe you should have just did less time. How long was you're jerky in for?

I would look at all that before lowering temp.

Time in won't cause it to cook, temp does that. More time in will just dry it more, to the point it is completely brittle and hard. For jerky you don't want that, but you can break it up or pulverize it, use it for Pemmican, or re-hydrating in stews or the like.

Temp over 150 will start to cook meat, and at that point, time in will cook it more or less, in addition to the drying. I have never seen instructions recommend a 160 temp for a dehydrator for jerky. Doesn't mean they aren't out there, I just haven't seen em.

I have seen a lot of oven dehydration directions that have to use those temps, as very few ovens go below 170 (if that low), though it is offset by needing to leave the door open a bit to vent moisture.

Low (temp) and slow (more time) seems to be the best practice, in my experience, with making jerky. To a point, too low a temp and it does nothing. All things being variable with the weather where I am (Maryland), I usually work around 105-110.

Namtrag
11-26-2013, 12:51
The temperature dial on our Nesco square dehydrator has the temperatures on it, and also what each temperature is used for...the 165 setting says Jerky.

As everyone has said, that did nothing but cook the beef. it still tastes good, but is brittle and overcooked. I think they have the setting that high for some kind of liability issues so people won't have any chance of getting ill. lol

Pedaling Fool
11-26-2013, 14:28
I agree, 165 is a little high, higher than what I like, which is around 145-155. However, I don't think you're getting into the "cooking" range until at least 200, but that's just a guess.

P.S. 165 is definitely too high for fruits/veggies, they say it kills many of the good enzymes. And on a somewhat related subject over-dehydration (regardless of temp setting) results in less nutritious food in general, regardless if it's meats/veggies/fruits.

Nyte
11-26-2013, 17:38
The temperature dial on our Nesco square dehydrator has the temperatures on it, and also what each temperature is used for...the 165 setting says Jerky.

As everyone has said, that did nothing but cook the beef. it still tastes good, but is brittle and overcooked. I think they have the setting that high for some kind of liability issues so people won't have any chance of getting ill. lol

It probably is listed that way for a liability issue.

When I started researching it, I started with reading and comparing every recipe, how to, and article I could find on making jerky. From there, I branched out to technical and scientific journals, as well as anthropology reports of how it was done before modern devices. Interesting stuff.

Also, researching meat preservation in general helped too; topics like the why and science behind smoking, bacon, salt curing, sugar curing, vinegar curing, and the like.

I did a bunch of experimenting, and I tried to keep one piece from any new change aside for long term storage testing. Usually in a ziplock or the like, sometimes two pieces, both in different ziplocks, on in the freezer, one in a dark pantry.

Wise Old Owl
11-26-2013, 22:26
The temperature dial on our Nesco square dehydrator has the temperatures on it, and also what each temperature is used for...the 165 setting says Jerky.

As everyone has said, that did nothing but cook the beef. it still tastes good, but is brittle and overcooked. I think they have the setting that high for some kind of liability issues so people won't have any chance of getting ill. lol

With a digital its 165 on the dial and 160 output on top with all the included trays its about 140 at the bottom... you still should rotate trays every hour... and folks I use a 1/2 hour mechanical timer... Salmon is 2 hours and so is some beef for softer dry. 5+ is the brittle crap. Don't be afraid to adjust the times and temps but try to stick to the included instructions.

Wise Old Owl
11-26-2013, 22:28
Nyte allow me to do some reading and catch up with you....I am clearly not on the playing field. -yet.

Nyte
11-26-2013, 23:10
Nyte allow me to do some reading and catch up with you....I am clearly not on the playing field. -yet.

By all means, to quote from George R. R. Martin in one of the Song of Ice and Fire books; "A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone."

I am just one of those ones that is too curious, I have to research something I get into until I am satiated, which usually takes a lot. That and with this one having to do with my health and not dying, nor being stuck in an expensive lifestyle requiring staying close to towns and cities to survive... It was a bit near and dear so to speak.

I am always open for new information if you find something that points differently (or even re-enforces) what I have found. Learning, and the culinary arts, are always loves of mine.

Wise Old Owl
11-26-2013, 23:21
me 2....................................

Traffic Jam
12-05-2013, 23:30
Most hot sauces use vinegar as a base. If you want to make some that is spicy without overdoing the vinegar, dry a cup of vinegar, 2 tablespoons honey or 1/4 cup brown sugar, 1/2 teaspon garlic powder, 1/2 teaspoon onion powder, 1/4 teaspoon ginger powder, 1/4-1 tablespoon of dried ground or flaked pepper (habenero, jalapeno, cayenne, etc...), and 1/2 tablespoon black pepper (optional). That is as a base, increase or decrease as needed for the size of the batch you are making. Slice your meat to 1/4 inch strips, and let marinate for 6-12 hours (I have done longer with no problem). Dehydrate and enjoy.

I used this recipe for my latest batch. It was better but still a bit vinegary. The texture is good. Dried it on 110 for 10 hrs. Can I substitute something for the vinegar? What about 1/2 cup vinegar and 1/2 soy sauce?

Nyte
12-05-2013, 23:46
I used this recipe for my latest batch. It was better but still a bit vinegary. The texture is good. Dried it on 110 for 10 hrs. Can I substitute something for the vinegar? What about 1/2 cup vinegar and 1/2 soy sauce?

I am not a fan of mixing vinegar and soy, though admitedly, I don't use either anymore, for various personal reasons (soy is a salt and I don't tolorate soy well, and I am not big on vinegar for the taste). You could try 1/4 cup soy instead, or try halving the vinegar. Play around with ratios to find what works for you. Like it more peppery, add pepper, spicier add cayenne, and so on.

Everyone's taste is different. Also, just a thought, instead of vinegar altogether, I have used whiskey to good effect in it's place.

Traffic Jam
12-06-2013, 07:20
I am not a fan of mixing vinegar and soy, though admitedly, I don't use either anymore, for various personal reasons (soy is a salt and I don't tolorate soy well, and I am not big on vinegar for the taste). You could try 1/4 cup soy instead, or try halving the vinegar. Play around with ratios to find what works for you. Like it more peppery, add pepper, spicier add cayenne, and so on.

Everyone's taste is different. Also, just a thought, instead of vinegar altogether, I have used whiskey to good effect in it's place.

Id like to avoid the soy too. I don't want to make it if I can't make it healthier than store bought.

Wise Old Owl
03-15-2014, 15:51
I went to a butcher two days ago and found he could make a marbled shoulder of London Broil at a very good price... it took me a long time to slice it up on the slicer and I went thin... This reduces the dry time to four hours. Reasonably soft and good chew far from road kill. The marbling shrinks and doesn't show. Never soak more than 8 hours.

Cheap vinegars do make a difference.

Found 1 winner.
If one pound of meat - 1 cup Good Apple Cider Vinegar and 1/2 cup Red Wine Vinegar - McCormick's Carolina Rub (entire packet). 8 hour soak, Tray it fresh crack pepper on top. 5 hour dry at 160

Never saw a Jerky disappear so fast.


Went back today got a $14 dollar piece just shy of two pounds of a premium marbled London Broil.

1 cup Apple Cider Vinegar
1/2 cup of Red Wine... (got to use it up)
Grill Mates Tennessee Smokehouse BBQ Rub. Whole Packet
1 teaspoon Wrights Hickory liquid smoke
1 teaspoon Carolina Hot Sauce.

8 hour soak
4-5 hour in the dryer...Fresh crack pepper on trays.

myakka_
03-15-2014, 16:15
I read this thread, and thought I would add some stuff for those who have never made their own BBQ sauces.

You can adjust the strength of the vinegar's flavor by changing which type of vinegar you are using, apple cider, red wine, etc. (there are tons of choices), BUT if it is still too strong, try your normal recipe, and cut the vinegar by 1/3 and add that volume back with water. (You need the water volume to keep the consistency of your baste the same.

I don't like to use anything pre-manufactured anything since that is where you get a chemist in the kitchen with ingredients I can't pronounce.

The classic BBQ sauce for anyone who has never tried this is: 1/3 ketchup 1/3 vinegar 1/3 honey/ brown sugar Spices to taste (to stay organic and fresh, mince onion, jalepeno and garlic. Add these along with some salt and pepper

Cook your bbq sauce for a bit to make blend the flavors. *to keep the jalepeno from killing you, cut out the white "meat" on the inside. This and the seeds is where the heat is from. You can add the outer "shell" of jalepeno without adding a lot of heat.

You can experiment with amounts to change the flavor and thickness. But if you mix it right, then the "wateriness" of the vinegar cuts the honey, and you end up with a thickness equal to the ketchup you started with.

I was glad to see this thread. I just ate some cajun turkey jerky that I made this morning, and when I get home, I should have some beef jerky timing out.

Spinning Nock
04-13-2014, 23:12
One thing I do to any kind of jerky preparation process, regardless of what kind of meat it is, salmon, deer, beef, whatever, is freeze it for a week. Red meat, like wild deer or moose or caribou, i freeze and thaw twice, then, when it is half-thawed I slice it really thin, as it is easier to slice thin this way, and then I marinade it for 24 hours or so, then smoke dry it. The freezing/thawing process kills just about everything, I have ate raw caribou after two freeze/thaw cycles with no ill effects.