clothing - ad nauseum

[orions_knight]

Okay Ive made my gear list and Im tweeking it as of now. The only thing Im stuck on is the clothing part. I just dont understand it. I went to REi last night to get a hands on feel for wha things are about but theres alot of stuff out there. I get that I need a baselayer(capilene, polyester, etc), a mid-layer(fleece) and a top layer(down or synthetic fill coat).
Where I have a problem is all the fancy marketing names and options!!!
Im leaving April 22 and my research tells me that it hasnt gotten below 30 in the last 3 years. So knowing that Ill be at elevation and the mountain ranges are unpredictable with weather, I think I should plan to buy clothes for 25 degree protection. To me this seems like a good compromise. I think this should be safe without being overkill.
My questions:
What does the down fill mean and how do I know what temp rating its good for?
How do I know whether to get a "microweight, lightweight, midweight, or heavyweight" baselayer/pajamas?
Can i go without the bulky top layer of down or synthetic since Im starting so late? Im a stickler for weight, but I dont want to die.:rolleyes:
When do you typically send these items home and start phasing into summer clothing?

This is all cold weather based. Hot weather is easy to dress for. Im gonna go running shorts and some kind of "underarmour" type shirt or shirtless (hey ladies!! haha).

[orions_knight]

Oh Im going NOBO btw

[Moose2001]

When you're talking cold weather clothes, you're really talking about staying warm at night. You're idea of a good base layer, IMHO, is a good start. You need to think about a couple of things. What kind of sleeping bag do you have and what's it's temp rating. Are you a cold or a warm sleeper. Most thrus use a 20 degree bag. I would suggest at least mid to heavyweight base layer to start and then switch to something lighter someplace in VA.

Don't kid yourself about the temp will never go below 30 degrees in the Smokey's! Even in late April, it's not uncommon to get a VERY cold snap.

[swjohnsey]

First off, you ain't gonna die. If it gets really cold just get in your bag. When you are walking you don't need many clothes. The time you need warm clothes is when you are stopped.

I'm planning on leaving about April 1st. I have a long sleeve poly T-shirt, poly running shorts, 100 wt fleece pants, 100 wt 1/2 zip fleece top, fleece hat and gloves. I have Driducks tops and bottoms for rain/wind protection.

It made it down into the 20s on Mt Rogers last year in early May.

[One Half]

It's always going to come down to how much heat you typically generate and how cold you can stand it and/or how much discomfort you are willing to put up with.

Personally I do not generate a lot of my own heat when not movng(typical for females I think). I have discovered for me that I like to have extra layers for my torso. If I keep my torso/core warm my body can pump the blood to my extremities and keep them warm. So for lower body layers I only carry my base layer, convertible pants, and rain pants (in cold times I carry insulated, water proof pants/ snow pants instead). Upper body I carry/wear base layer, long sleeve, short sleeve, a long sleeve thin insulating layer x 2, fleece and rain gear/insulated outside layer(for cold weather). If I need to wear them all I know the rest of my body will remain warm. I haven't ever needed to wear all of them at once and usually sleep in my base layer as I usually dont wear it while hiking. I also typically dont need to wear gloves or a hat while moving but keep a hat handy for when I stop. If temps dropped into the 20's or maybe slightly lower I know I could stay comfortable enough for sleeping in my bag and tent. Oh. That's another thing, you will gain some insulation obviously from your tent, bag and sleep pad. So it really is not an easy question to answer.

I would suggest you go out in the fall/beginning of winter for a night or so where you can easily bail and spend the day hiking and then camp with your gear for your thru. If you are lucky temps will drop to what you will likely experience in the spring and you will be able to adjust accordingly.

Good luck!

[bigcranky]

The three layers are (1) base layer, (2) insulation layer, and (3) shell layer.

(1) Base Layer - synthetic or wool, light weight. You'll hike and sleep in this. I usually bring one short sleeve and one long sleeve in the lightest merino wool, top and bottom. Keep one set dry for sleeping.

(2) Insulation. Can be fleece, down, or synthetic. Fleece is cheap, but bulkier. Down is light and compressible, more expensive, and you'll want to keep it dry. I often carry a light fleece sweater (a "microfleece zip tee") and a light down jacket.

(3) Shell. This is a waterproof layer than can also be "breathable," though none of them breathe very well. You'll want to start your hike with both a shell jacket and rain pants. This should be a "hard shell" rather than a "soft shell." This layer is not just for bad weather -- it's very useful as part of the three-layer system for warmth, too.

Many hikers add a (4) Wind Shirt layer, a very light ~3 ounce single layer pullover or jacket that is worn over the base layer in cool or windy conditions when the base layer by itself is not enough, and the rain shell layer is too much. I won't hike without one.

Note that this 3 or 4 layer system works all year long under any weather conditions -- one simply chooses different garments for winter versus summer, for example. So I would bring a very warm down jacket as my #2 layer in winter, and a very light fleece pullover as my #2 layer in early summer.

Also, not sure where you got your weather data, but some parts of the southern AT see much colder temperatures than 30-F even into May. Depends on the year, and of course by late April the weather will be all over the place -- 70 one day, then 25 the following night.

[q-tip]

Don't leave out the plastic garbage bag rain shirt and kilt. These work great.....

[Creek Dancer]

I second BigCranky's recommendation on a wind shirt. I carry with me, year round, a 3oz. Outdoor Research wind shirt. Next to my down jacket, this is my most favorite piece of clothing.

I wear this over a base layer when hiking if the base layer is not enough to keep the cold away. I have often hiked in 30 degree weather with a base layer and the wind shirt and I was comfortable. That is, until I stopped!

The wind shirt is somewhat water resistant, but you do need to retreat the the garment with some type of tech wash to add back the water resistant properties.

The wind shirt dries very quickly, which I like. Once the weather warms up, I use this around camp after the sun goes down if it gets chilly.

This is by far the most versitile piece of backpacking clothing I own.

[pyroman53]

For possible 20 degree nightime temps here's what I carry:
- Very light synthetic short sleeve base layer (4 oz) and long sleeve base layer (5 oz) (one is worn, the other stays in pack, dry for sleeping). Daytime temps determines which I wear when hiking.
- If its raining I add a poncho (7oz)(or rain jacket) over the base layer. If no rain, but very cold wind, I add a wind shirt (5oz) that goes on and off as exposure and exertion change. I like this cause I can take it off w/o stopping, and just shove into my pants pocket. Normal day's its just the base layer while hiking.
- In camp, and maybe longer breaks I add a light (10 oz) synthetic insulating jacket (puffy) with the windshirt (or rain coat) over it if its windy. You could use a mid-weight fleece or down jacket. Whatever you think will keep you warm while standing around at 20 degrees. This will be important if you slowly build up your daily miles because you'll probably be hanging around for a number of hours in the evening. Later, you may just hike all day and not need much in-camp insulation, but you'll be an expert by then.
- Really cold nights, I might use the sleeping bag as a shawl, or just go to bed early.
- I carry convertable pants, and usually wear them long during the shoulder season and I also carry Capilene 1 very light base layer bottoms (5oz) to use for evenings in camp, and usually as sleep wear. I have rain chaps (2oz) I have yet to use. Rain pants are fine and add another factor of warmth.

Thus I always have dry top and bottom to sleep in when I get to camp.

How do you know how warm a down jacket will be?...that's a whole nother topic, but for 20 degree weather, I really don't need all that much from the jacket.
When do you send them home?...again, another thread. I'll leave that to the experts here who know that stuff.

[orions_knight]

awesome info, thanks guys. rly helps to wrap my mind around realistic shopping list.

to answer a couple of those questions:
im a cold sleeper, hell im cold all the time.
and im going hammock with UQ and TQ (warbonnetoutdoors gear)
oh and im definitely taking the early winter in middle georgia(thats home), to test my gear. its just all so expensive, i want to buy right the first time.

The wind shirt idea sounds real useful. Ill look at those.

[JAK]

I've developed my own sort of empirical formula that works for me. I find out what the minimum temperature is for my trip. I usually base it on the historical extreme low for the month I am hiking in. If it is around the end or beginning of a month I might average it with the other month. I am not so worried about night-time lows for clothing, so I might add a few degrees to get an extreme daytime low I might have to be prepared for.

Once I have that, I dress for that using 2 or 3 or 3.5 layers depending on whether it is summer, spring/fall, or winter, not counting shells. By 3.5 layers I mean sometimes I can sneak a silk layer in under my wool underwear on the coldest days in winter when I need to wear it all, rather than one or the other. So I choose layers that fit well together, and also provide good options for delayering, since chances are I will not have to wear everything I bring, because chances are I will not get the extreme low I am prepared for. The items I choose I choose so they will layer me evenly when I wear it all, and the weight of all of my clothing, in ounces, not counting shoes, rain shells, or wind shells, adds up to the number of degrees below 85F I am prepared for. So for 0F, I would have 85oz in clothing, or 5.3 pounds. For 40F I would need 45 oz or about 2.8 pounds. I don't bring down, because I prefer a combination of wool and synthetics for my style of hiking. I generally use wool for the layers I can keep on, and synthetics for the layers layer and delayer with. I generally don't bring spares, in the sense that I can wear it all if it ever got to the extreme I am prepared for.

When you consider each item of clothing as part of a system, for the extreme, rather than stand alone, I don't find much difference in terms of performance per ounce, as long as it is a good piece of clothing, of good quality and without deadweight, like excessive nylon or other dense materials, and as long as it is a good system, in terms of all the layers fitting well, for even coverage, without anything compressing anything. Shell weight isn't counted, but of course I always bring wind and/or rain shells. You can't really compare the performance of a wool sweater of a fleece top to a down sweater, for example, unless you consider how warm it will be when worn with a rain or wind shell, which of course you are going to wear anyway.

Hope that helps.

[Blissful]

Leaving that late you'll get some cool nights but shouldn't be too bad at all. You'll just get hot hot later on and the humidity can get you. I wouldn't take down for a clothing layer. One synthetic jacket will do early on (mail home by mid may) and in New England. If you are cold all the time though youmight need midweight merino wool underwear (until mid May). Carry a hat and light fleece top the whole trip.

I would not go shirtless from Shenandoah to MA. unless you are looking for ticks and lyme disease...

[orions_knight]

[QUOTE=I would not go shirtless from Shenandoah to MA. unless you are looking for ticks and lyme disease...[/QUOTE]

growing up on acreage in middle georgia...i should know this! i wouldve figured it out the hard way regardless. but thanks. haha

[Meadow Creek]

When you consider each item of clothing as part of a system, for the extreme, rather than stand alone, I don't find much difference in terms of performance per ounce, as long as it is a good piece of clothing, of good quality and without deadweight, like excessive nylon or other dense materials, and as long as it is a good system, in terms of all the layers fitting well, for even coverage, without anything compressing anything.

Ditto. Don't wreck yourself trying to pick out the "perfect" specimen for each item of clothing... no such thing.

Also, your practice outings will help you learn how to use your system--shed a layer *before* you get too hot, so you're not soaked in sweat when you stop, etc. If you're already warm when you start walking, you're overdressed. It's (mostly) all about moisture management and wind protection--take care of those, and you'll stay reasonably comfortable. The rest is mental--you may have to adjust your idea about what's tolerable and what's not, but that's part of what makes this whole thing fun, IMO.