Help me plan - mostly food and water questions

[chad9949]

I will be starting at Fontana Dam, NC and hiking to Davenport Gap TN. This is my first hike so I have a lot of question. I don't know anybody who hikes so please forgive me if my questions are amateurish. I have only '”marched” a lot in the military but never hiked for a week on the AT.



I have parking and shuttle figured out: http://www.standingbearfarm.com/)

I will be using this as a water and camp site guide: http://www.sherpaguides.com/tennessee/appalachian_trail/trail_descriptions.html



Qustions:

1. Does the water need to be purified or boiled in general in the Smokies, or can I drink it straight from the spring? (unless of course where it says “must be purified” in the above guide)

2. How much food should I start with? I can fit 4 military style MRE's (after breaking them down) in my pack.
3. Where can I resupply myself with food? Or should I try to pack 7 days worth of food in my pack?
4. Are MRE's a bad idea? I imagine finding myself on the trail wondering what to do with the trash.
5. Is there a website or reference for average temperatures in the March – July time frame. I haven't decided when to hike. Any suggestions in that time frame? I would prefer a hike before it is too warm outside, but must be between March and July. I suppose it doesn't get too hot on the AT but I'm not sure.

Thank you for any suggestions.

Chad

[Amanita]

1. I treat anything that doesn't come out of a tap, using aqua mira. This is a personal choice.

4. I've never eaten MREs, but I have heard that they are not very efficient calories/weight. Divide the calories by the weight of the MRE (including packaging). 100 cal/oz is the MINIMUM number of calories/oz you should find in order for them to even be plausible. If you are bringing a stove Knorr's pasta and/or rice sides are very easy to make, and meet the cal/oz guideline. If you are not carrying a stove, there are a lot of good stoveless options, look in the food area of this forum for some ideas.


I don't have any experience in that area of the AT, so I'll let someone else answer the res of your questions.

[Ladytrekker]

http://www.mountain-forecast.com/ for weather
I use a bota bottle easy and light. http://www.botaofboulder.com/water-filtration/14-outback-water-filtration-system-32oz

[JAK]

MREs are not neccessarily a bad idea. Figure out how many calories they have per pound, after you strip them of any superflous packaging. You want hiking food to have at least 1500 kcal per pound. Food per day varies. Depends mostly on your lean body mass, fitness, and how many hours you want to hike each day. In this context fitness is not so much how many calories you can burn in an hour, but how many calories you can burn per day, and how much your body can recover from one day to the next. A good test takes at least a 3-5 day hike, but you probably have a good idea already. Just find a way to reduce packaging weight and moisture weight as much as possible, but otherwise carry the foods you want to eat.

[Slo-go'en]

1. Personally, I find no need to treat water in the Smokies (or anywhere in NC for that matter). I will drink directly out of springs and most small streams. The "treat or boil water before drinking" signs are there for liability reasons, on the off chance you do get sick from the water (but it probably wasn't the water).

3. You can resupply at Gatlinburg, but you will loose a whole day doing so. The only real supper market is several miles out side of town. The good news is you can get there by a 50 cent trolly ride. The bad news is it takes about an hour each way. For a simple Smokies traverse, going to Gatlinburg probably isn't worth the time and effort.

2. MRE's do then to be heavy, bulky and produce a lot of trash. You'll be better off with supermarket food and a few Mountian house or Colman freeze dried meals. You probably won't be too hungry the first day or two, so you can skimp on dinner those first few days. (unless you have no fat reserves to tap).

If your in half decent shape, doing the park in 5 nights, 6 days isn't unreasonable. 5 days of food will run about 8-10 pounds. About the most I'm willing to carry at any one time. Of course, every day the load gets a little lighter. But always seems it doesn't really get light until the food bag is pretty much empty! The first day, climbing up to Mollies ridge will be the hardest. The second hardest is Derrick Knob to Mt Collins. Everything else isn't too bad.

5. When to go? Definately in early May. The wild flowers are out, the temps aren't too bad (but it can still be chilly), still a few thru-hikers getting there. If you can be flexable, watch the weather and pick a week with good weather. Took me 4 tries to get a week where I had good weather through the park and got to see all the views.

Good luck and have fun!

[JAK]

MREs contain 1200 kcal and weight 510g to 740g.
So they have a density of 1.6 kcal/g to 2.4 kcal/g.
Not great. Maybe it could be trimmed down some.

3 MREs per day would weigh in at about 4 pounds per day, for what could weigh 2 to 3 pounds.

[chad9949]

Thank you for the info thus far. It's been very helpful.

I broke down four MRE's and got rid of all the packaging except for the pouches that the actual food is in. It came down to 5,335 cal and 5.2lbs. That's 64cal/oz. Which is not very good. I will be checking out what I can get at the supermarket. Maybe take the high calorie items from the MRE and use those. Might be four or five items worth taking.

[chad9949]

http://www.mountain-forecast.com/ for weather
I use a bota bottle easy and light. http://www.botaofboulder.com/water-filtration/14-outback-water-filtration-system-32oz

I'll be getting one of those bottles :)

[chad9949]

5. When to go? Definately in early May.

Good luck and have fun!

I'm shooting for early May then.

[gollwoods]

energy bars are pretty good calories to wieght, trail mix. bagels or flat bread. tuna pouches and mayonaise/ relish packets instant oatmeal you can just put real hot water in the pouch to eat.
instant soup, potatoes and minute rice or lipton sides type things add beef jerky etc..
you need a stove right?

[leaftye]

Chad, use olive oil. Lots of olive oil. It tastes pretty good at home, and on the trail your body will be craving calories so much that olive oil will be delicious...you might even be tempted to drink it straight from the bottle.

[swjohnsey]

Take a look at the calorie density thread in the cooking section.

[10-K]

When you're buying food make sure you get stuff you actually like to eat - when choosing between something I really like that weighs a few more oz's and something lighter but I don't enjoy as much I tend to go with what I like.

I don't take a lot of breaks or long lunches but when I eat, I like to enjoy my food.

[Odd Man Out]

... I imagine finding myself on the trail wondering what to do with the trash...

This concerns me. It should be a no brainer. You carry the trash with you. If you don't want to carry the MRE detritus, then don't bring MRE.

[chad9949]

This concerns me. It should be a no brainer. You carry the trash with you. If you don't want to carry the MRE detritus, then don't bring MRE.
Of course. Tossing it to the side would not be an option. I'm going to trash the MRE idea after reading this thread. Maybe take a couple of the pouches of peanut butter.

In the past couple hours I went to the store. Got some peanuts, dried pineapple, M&M's, and raisins. I made a trail mix that came out to 5 bags at 2046 cal/bag. All five bags weigh 5lbs. Same weight as four MRE's but twice the calories! I think if I use the above suggestions of adding Jerky, olive oil, tuna pouches, and energy bars, I think I'll be golden.

I would like to avoid cooking with a heater if possible, and I think I can pull it off.

Thanks everyone for the excellent info and suggestions.

[leaftye]

How much of that trail mix can you actually force yourself to eat while hiking? I used to pack 3000 calories of gorp to eat every day, but found that I couldn't eat more than half of it, so of course I started carrying half as much.

Creating a meal plan on paper is a good place to start, but is worthless if you can't eat all those meals. Go on a hike and give it a shot. You might be surprised.

[rmitchell]

Those peanuts might be a little stale by May.:confused:

Are you aware that you have to stay at the shelters on the AT in the park? You can get reservations by phone 30 days before you start. In the early spring half of the slots are held back for thru hikers. By May most the the northbound thru hikers will have moved on. Your plans may have to change according to which shelters that you can book. Also bear activity can close shelters.

1. I personally filter all water mostly for the taste.

2.To me a hot supper is well worth the added weight of a stove and small cook pot. Lipton rice or noodle dinners are good. Ramen noodles weight next to nothing. Add a tuna or salmon pouch or small can of chicken or vienna sasuages for protein.

3. Gatlinburg would be a waste of time. Carry food for the entire trip unless you can have someone meet you at Newfound Gap with a care package.

4. Pack out all your trash and any that you find. There is a trash can at Newfound Gap.

5. Google Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Their website will have information on weather, as well as shelter information.


I would vote for May also, but there is really no bad time to go.

Do not under estimate the weather. It can be cool or cold and rainy or even snow in spring at altitude. It will be 10 to 15 degrees cooler on the AT than down in Gatlinburg.

There can be cold nights even in August at 6,000 feet.

Take you time and enjoy the hike.

And thanks for your service in the military.

[Wise Old Owl]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/mre.jpg

Enugh Said - that's a real MILITARY MRE. Last years production.

[chad9949]

Those peanuts might be a little stale by May.:confused:

And thanks for your service in the military.

That was just a test to see what I can make at home. I'll take it to work for lunch for the next couple of weeks. Thanks for your other suggestions and info! And you're welcome :)

[chad9949]

How much of that trail mix can you actually force yourself to eat while hiking? ....Go on a hike and give it a shot. You might be surprised.

I don't know. I figured I would eat one bag per day. It doesn't look like that much. I eat a lot anyway. I think the only way to really find out is do what you said and go on a hike. I'll be hiking a lot of one day trips around where I live in preparation.

[ParkRat09]

I don't know anything about MRE meals but I do know quite a bit about that section of the AT as I live in Knoxville, TN (about 1.5hrs from the Davenport Gap trailhead). There are some difficult sections especially toward the middle of the section (Rocky Top, Clingman's, Thunderhead, etc), so plan for some extra calories when hiking that section. If you have any specific questions about the section let me know and I will do my best to answer them.

One note about the water...over the past 6 years I have hiked nearly all of the GSMNP and I ALWAYS treat ANY water that I take from any source there. Aqua-Mira drops weigh 2.9 ounces so there is no reason not to bring them and treat all your water.

[Papa D]

I drink straight out of bona fide springs (high on mountain - coming from rock or pipe) and use aqua mira for other sources - if you are cooking, since you are boiling water, I would suggest that you don't need any additional purification - just bringing it to a rolling boil is fine - you don't have to boil it for a certain amount of time (I think this a woodsman's legend - sort of like cutting snakebites with a razor)

For food, you can clearly do MUCH better than MREs - any search of this site (or a google search) will yield plenty of backpacking menus - I buy almost all of my food straight from the grocery store - anything you can make with boiling water - instant rice, pasta, sauces (like KNORR) - pasta sides, bags of dehydrated potatoes, foil bags of tuna (or meat), dehydrated tofu or setian, Cliff Bars, trail mix, Ramen, peanut butter .... etc.

I would work on staying away from almost everything "military" -- work on well proven light backpacking techniques and you will be a "happy camper" -- the military makes stuff for wars and fighting -- you are going out to be one with nature and enjoy yourself -- do that

[bamboo bob]

People who eat MRE's usually have them carried by a hummer if not a helicopter. They really are not a good choice for backpacking.

[Wise Old Owl]

Chadd - there is no simple answer to your problem - Your question alludes to inexperience in backpacking. You have come to the right source - WB, but you need to read more in the food & cooking section... perhaps ask for one of the many cookbooks on line or dig into Freezer Bag Cooking for the holiday - the most important - practice practice - do some things in the kitchen - set up a tent on a cold wet night in the backyard. The woods is no place to discover frustration.

I really hope you put the MRE thing to bed. It has little value on the trail.

[shelterbuilder]

So many opinions...just like life! And we can't really tell you what will work best for you - only what seems to work best FOR US. That being said, here's my $0.02's worth:

1.) I can live on a bag of gorp for a week...but why would I want to? By the time you've hiked a whole day, you should treat yourself to something hot, tasty, and filling. It may seem like "fussing", but it can be a BIG psychological boost. For me, MRE's are an occasional treat, not a staple, because I can usually do better in terms of calories/pound AND taste. Pop-Tarts or oatmeal and sugar (or HONEY) get me going, but gorp throughout the day keeps me fueled (small, frequent amounts, often consumed during 1 to 2 minute stops). Thank God that I like PB 'n' J - that's a lunch that, while boring, will keep me moving. But dinner has to be "an event" - a reward for a good day's trek - even if it's just a one-pot meal with some "special" ingredients that I really love. At the very least, I'll carry an alcohol stove and extra fuel, but I prefer a canister stove (or even my old Optimus 99)...oh, yeah, did I mention hot coffee???

2.) Water (again, this is what I do - YMMV) is treated if it's surface water, but usually not if it's a spring. "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" - you will get sick faster from poor hygene than from "bad" water, so remember to clean your pots...and WASH YOUR HANDS before eating and after the toilet. 'Nuff said.

3.) Can't help with the area - not familar with it yet.

4.) When you have a system that you think might work for you - take it on the trail for some shorter trips and see what works and what doesn't...and adjust accordingly. It's not about being "right" - it's about what works for YOU. HYOH. And have fun!

[sbhikes]

A good thing to do is to set up your stove in the backyard and cook some of the meals you plan to take. Make sure that you can operate your stove and that your meal choices are edible. Nothing is worse than having food that tastes terrible.

You can cook a lot of things that are considered "normal" food. You don't always need special "backpacking" versions of food. I have cooked regular pasta on my alcohol stove without having to simmer or waste fuel. There's a trick to it. That's why it's good to read up in the cooking section and then practice in your back yard.

Also, when it comes to gorp, make sure you really do like it. I could only ever eat about 1/2 of a snack-sized ziploc per day of the stuff myself, if that. Other things are so much tastier. Gummy bears, candy bars, pepperidge farm cookies, cheeze-its, oreos.

[chad9949]

Good stuff everybody. Thanks for all the different opinions. They will come in handy.

[Blissful]

Resupply at Gatlinburg. No reason to carry 7 days of food.

I blogged (http://blissfulhiking.blogspot.com/2011/02/hiker-food-kinds-of-stuff.html) on food I brought on my hikes.

[Don H]

I don't think we should be suggesting to someone new that it's OK to not treat water.
For food search here for "Freezer Bag" cooking.

[chad9949]

For water I'm going with this as previously suggested http://www.botaofboulder.com/water-filtration/14-outback-water-filtration-system-32oz, and Aquamira. No reason not to go with both.

[Old Hiker]

A thru named Bison did MRE's for the most part on his hike, but he used commercially available ones. If you have access to a base commissary, they have a type of MRE that is half the price, but includes most of the food as the "real" ones. Comes in a clear plastic pouch instead of the ultra thick plastic.

The MH pro-paks were a total meal for me on my section hikes. Wally-World has Coleman (?) brand freeze dried food that is really great! At about 5$ per, it's fairly cheap. I was surprised that the ones I tried (LOVE the Max Patch mac-n-cheese) really tasted good and not like the typical freeze-dried food. Rounded out with a can of chicken or a Spam single, I felt fed.