Sleeping Bag Help

[Lady Grey]

I plan on doing a long stretch of the AT starting in March 2013. I'll start in Georgia and go north for 4 months - just approved for a leave from my job at a high school so am very excited.

I'm in the early gear planning stages and have the luxury of time, so am looking for sales. I'm looking for a lightweight down bag and have read many good reviews of the Marmot Helium 15, but when I look at the women's bag specs it looks as though it's only 66 inches long. I'm 5'8" so that would be too short. Can't seem to find the same bag in a long women's version. Ideas? Recommendations for other bags?

Thanks in advance!

[Mountain Mike]

Find a decent outfitter, go there & tell them about your plans. Then try display models out in the store. Get in them & see how they feel. Many outfitters such as EMS rent bags. So ake one out & take it on a test hike. Your bag is probably the most important piece of equipment on your hike.

[J. Foolery]

I've also been looking at Marmot's bags. I'm not sure if you're left or right handed, but here are some links to a large Helium:

http://www.sunnysports.com/Prod/MRMBHEL.html?&&

http://www.sunnysports.com/Catalog.aspx?op=ItemDisplay&ProductID=MRMBHEML&Page=1&Term=marmot%20helium%20women's%20sleeping%20bag&Hit=1

Al[/URL]so, I've been looking into Big Agnes bags. They have both full and half size sleeping pad sleeves to prevent slipping off your pad. Their women's bags all seem to have amazing reviews. Their Peggy bag is probably what I'll end up with:

[URL]http://www.amazon.com/Big-Agnes-15-Degree-Sleeping-Zipper/dp/B004MQSWLM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3GXP9PQ8ITE7Q&colid=2FYZSB7CSG2P7 (http://www.sunnysports.com/Catalog.aspx?op=ItemDisplay&ProductID=MRMBHEL&Page=1&Term=marmot%20helium%20women's%20sleeping%20bag&Hit=1)

Other 15 degree bags I've looked into that have pretty good reviews are Mountain Hardwear's Phantom and Marmot's Pinnacle (both available in women's). One final bag that I'm considering is Montbell's U.L. Super Spiral Down Hugger #3 (This is a 30 degree bag- but Montbell has a 15 degree super spiral as well). This bag is not available in women's, but I know a couple of people who have used it and it comes VERY highly recommended.

Hope this helps!

[J. Foolery]

Sorry Vtdeb, I think I sent you links to a man's Helium. (I've been looking into both men's and women's bags) When I went back and searched, I couldn't find the Helium in a large women's either (bummer b/c I'm too tall for a regular, too!) :( I hope some of the other bags I mentioned will help you in your search.

[bigcranky]

Not sure about long women's sizes in Marmot bags. You might check the Montbell #1 super spiral UL down bag, which is comparable in quality and has the stretch feature that many hikers (including my wife) appreciate.

Sounds like a great trip.

[J. Foolery]

You might check the Montbell #1 super spiral UL down bag, which is comparable in quality and has the stretch feature that many hikers (including my wife) appreciate.

Good to know that women appreciate super spirals, too! I wasn't sure, because I only know men who have had them, but those guys were in love with their bags. Thanks!

[Moose2001]

Western Mountaineering bags are the best you'll find.

[Lady Grey]

Thanks, everyone. J. Foolery, thanks for confirming what I'd found... no luck with a woman's Helium bag. It's strange that Marmot hasn't accounted for the fact that many women are over 5'6"! I've read a lot of positive comments about the Montbell Super Spiral series so will look into those as well, and I'll check out the Western Mountaineering bags too.

[redheadedhiker674]

I'm 6ft and am having trouble finding a women's sleeping bag that is a good length. I might just go ahead and get a men's bag although I heard that wasn't a good idea due to warmth. What's a girl to do..

[leaftye]

redheadedhiker674, look at the EN temperature ratings for any bag you look at. One easy way to look at it is that the "comfort level" (for men). The will be the lower level for women.

[Hoop]

The OP mentioned looking at the Marmot Helium. Yesterday F-Stop bumped his thread, has that same bag for a good price.

[Creek Dancer]

I'm 6ft and am having trouble finding a women's sleeping bag that is a good length. I might just go ahead and get a men's bag although I heard that wasn't a good idea due to warmth. What's a girl to do..

Don't worry too much about using a "womens" sleeping bag. Sure, the bag might be designed to fit the female shape, but I honestly don't think it's that big of a deal. I use a men's Marmot Helium (15 degree down) bag and I am plenty warm down to about 20 degrees. I think that the size and fit of the bag is more important than the "gender" of the bag. If you find a mens bag that fits you, i.e., not too big, not too short, not too long, etc., then the bag should work for you.

[eatapeach]

Your post reminded me of a review of sierra designs pyro on amazon. It's a 15 degree bag, and a woman reviewed it and apparently liked it. I'm a man and got one for myself. The prices on amazon can fluctuate wildly. I paid 150 for the regular.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I'm 6ft and am having trouble finding a women's sleeping bag that is a good length. I might just go ahead and get a men's bag although I heard that wasn't a good idea due to warmth. What's a girl to do..Well, you'll notice that Western Mountaineering doesn't make gender specific bags, yet they are pretty much the bag against which all others are judged. The big difference is that many companies cut bags a little bigger in the hip area for women's models, but larger in the shoulder area for men's models. If you are a wider person to any degree, you would be advised to look at the girth measurements of any bag as well. Some company's mummy bags can be a tight fit. Women tend on average to "sleep colder" than men as well, but this is by a few degrees - not a lot. There is a wider range of comfort difference within the same gender (one guy may be comfortable in a bag at 20, while another will be cold in the same bag at 30) than there is between the genders. Different people just sleep colder or warmer than others.

[leaftye]

I thought the difference between male and female bags was 13°F or 17°F. That's a pretty big difference.

[Creek Dancer]

A big difference in what? I guess I don't understand your post.

[Blissful]

The fill is placed differently in the bags for gender specific and the zipper is sometimes the opposite side (not always, though, esp if there's a choice) - not the overall temp rating.

[leaftye]

A big difference in what? I guess I don't understand your post.

The exact same bag would be rated at 20°F for men, and 33°F or 37°F for women. That's the big difference I'm talking about.


The fill is placed differently in the bags for gender specific and the zipper is sometimes the opposite side (not always, though, esp if there's a choice) - not the overall temp rating.

I've heard that the fill might be placed differently, but I haven't seen proof of this yet...not that I've looked. Some bags just change the rating and offer a shorter bag for women.

[Tinker]

It would be nice if all of this useful information was posted in the "general" forum, even though it applies directly to women.

How many guys know the difference between a male specific bag and a female specific bag? I only know because I used to sell them. This thread is informative, and, though not actually hidden from male forum users, seems, at least to me, to imply that only women can have answers to the OP's question.
Having only 3 posts, the OP logically decided to post here.
I wonder if the moderators have the freedom or authority to create a "duplicate post", in other words, leave the post here and also copy it into the "general" category.
This information would benefit the "general" audience of this forum, imo.

[leaftye]

Tinker, I agree. I didn't know the difference until a few weeks ago when someone pointed out a sale on a womans bag at REI. It was rated at 20°F, but had a note in the specs that said it was rated for 3°F for men. As a 20°F bag for women, the price was okay, but was a steal as a 0°F bag for men. I wish I could find that bag again, but it was in their outlet and seems to have sold out.

[Lady Grey]

The more I read, the more there is to think about. When I get a moment I'll visit our EMS and Outdoor Gear Exchange (unfortunately no REI in Vermont) to check out some options. I'd love to be able to simply watch for specials and order online, but want to make sure I get the bag(s) that will work best for me. Should I move my original post over to the "general" forum? Thanks to everyone again for your ideas...

[4eyedbuzzard]

The ratings stuff is confusing as hell even with EN13537. Some of the problems with 13537 are that the spec for comfort and limit is based upon maniken testing (maniken with heater unit, multiple thermocouples on "skin", controlled environment, etc) and reads as follows:

Comfort Temp: The comfort range down to which a sleeping bag user with a relaxed posture such as lying on the back is globally in thermal equilibrium and not feeling cold (related to standard woman and in standard conditions of use).
Limit temperature: Lower limit at which a sleeping bag user with a rolled-up bodyposture is globally in thermal equilibrium and not feeling cold (related to standard man and in standard conditions of use).

A "standard man" is assumed to be 25 years old, with a height of 1.73 m and a weight of 73 kg; a "standard woman" is assumed to be 25 years old, with a height of 1.60 m and a weight of 60 kg.

The standard assumes that men and women sleep without motion in different positions/postures. Well, they just don't necessarily. And both men and women tend to change their posture many times over the course of a nights sleep. The rolled up posture, which the standard assumes only for men in the rating, will be a warmer posture for women as well. And vice-versa - a man sleeping lying flat on his back would likely sleep colder than a woman sleeping in a rolled up posture. And, amazingly, we all tend to curl up when cold. Add that now, in the same bag, the test assumes a 5' 8", 160 lb man vs a 5' 3", 130 lb woman.

Another issue is that base metabolic rates vary greatly (up to 25% or so) between individuals who are otherwise very similar (age, weight, gender, fat to lean muscle ratio, skin surface area, etc). Some people simply have higher metabolic rates than others, a variable the rating system simply cannot account for.

Women do on average (the entire popuation) have lower base metabolic rates than men, but this difference is largely negated when calculations are compensated for body fat, i.e. women of the same height, weight, fitness level, etc as men, and with the same percentage of body fat will on average (take a big enough sample) have very similar base metabolic rates, as it is the mass of lean muscle that is most responsible in determining the base metabolic rate regardless of gender. Add that women who hike likely are in better physical condition than the average woman and have lower fat to lean muscle ratios.

There are other issues with EN 13537, especially when comparing across manufacturer's lines, as the standard calls for an insulating pad - but without any standard, and the wearing of a base layer and hat, but again these garments aren't standardized. There are other issues, and a bunch of critiques out there that really go into depth on testing methodology, etc

[4eyedbuzzard]

It would be nice if all of this useful information was posted in the "general" forum, even though it applies directly to women.

How many guys know the difference between a male specific bag and a female specific bag? I only know because I used to sell them. This thread is informative, and, though not actually hidden from male forum users, seems, at least to me, to imply that only women can have answers to the OP's question.
Having only 3 posts, the OP logically decided to post here.
I wonder if the moderators have the freedom or authority to create a "duplicate post", in other words, leave the post here and also copy it into the "general" category.
This information would benefit the "general" audience of this forum, imo.
To my knowledge, and I'm not in the industry, the differences are:
The standard sizing for any given size, (reg, tall, etc) is shorter, i.e. a woman's regular bag typically fits 5' 4 to 5' 6" vs a man's regular fitting 5' 10" to 6' 0".
A woman's bag is cut (proportionately) wider in the hips and narrower in the shoulders, overall a more squarely cut bag once beyond the footbox area.
The woman's bag may have a little extra fill in the footbox and mid torso area, or may have a slightly different distribution, but the difference really isn't all that great.
On average, they often use lower fill power down (at the sacrifice of higher weight - but in a shorter bag which will be lighter anyway) to keep costs and prices down, as women consumers are more frugal than men when it comes to outdoor gear. Guys will spend big dollars for the absolute best, newest, latest, and greatest - women SHOP.

AND, they come in pretty pastel colors that are more appealing to women consumers.

[leaftye]

I don't think it's confusing, at least after your read it a bit, which it seems that you have. What they're saying is...

With this less than ideal body type, you'll still be warm at XX temperature: You're a woman, a certain age, short, 130 lbs, lying flat.

Under these optimal body type, you'll be warm at XX-YY temperature: You're a man, same age as the woman, 160 lbs, curled up.

It's just a spread. I suppose they could have been less PC and said if you're a man, you'll be warm in this bag at 20°F, but if you're a woman, you'll be warm as long as the temperature doesn't drop below 35°F. Instead the EN ratings still aren't put out right out there in front of us. Manufacturers are allowed to explain the ratings in their own ways, which is why there are still men's and women's bags instead of throwing the EN rating at us and making us figure it all out for ourselves. Fortunately the EN rating is still there if you want to see it and pick the bag that's most optimal for your body type and desired sleeping comfort.

The standard specifies the pad too. There's wiggle room for the pad for a lab to cheat the test, but it's definitely not nothing.

[Del Q]

My experience, more space inside = more areas to warm = cold spots. I move around a lot at night, have wound up with my Big Agnes bags with the pad on TOP of me............am really pleased with the Mont Bell Spiral Bags, roomy, tight fit, warmer, lightweight, quality gear............friend has the 15 degree super spiral, awesome light bag.

[Sassafras Lass]

The OP mentioned looking at the Marmot Helium. Yesterday F-Stop bumped his thread, has that same bag for a good price.

Sorry, it's sold pending payment. I'm the wife and it's actually my husband's bag. :D

FWIW, I used the GoLite Venture 20 (disc.) on our thru attempt this past spring. It worked very well for me - my husband has thyroid issues and the 15 wasn't enough for him, and after our hike I sold my bag (had considered a quilt) and he wanted a lower temp bag, so we both ended up buying the Mt. Hardwear UltraLamina 0 degree synthetic - because we're doing more winter camping lately and we may be attempting a SOBO this year, so we'll hit more winter weather than on a NOBO. The weight's not horrendous - 3 lbs, 5 oz., the lightest sub-15 synth bag I could find - and it's stupid toasty. Plus I've lightened up in other areas (ULA Circuit, anyone? :) ) so any weight penalty has been offset, at least for me.

I never used to care much that I was an American citizen, but that's a dangerous line of thinking. If we don't support American businesses, we're going to end up in big, big trouble. Western Mountaineering (http://westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&ContentId=5) bags are absolutely wonderful (and I WILL own one someday, I promise you), you'd be hard-pressed to find a bad or even lukewarm review; they're worth every penny. Feathered Friends (http://www.featheredfriends.com/picasso/bags/Bags3Season.html) is another American company (in Seattle?) that makes quality gear, as is Nunatak (http://www.nunatakusa.com/). Here's a page of Made in USA camping/hiking gear (http://www.madeinusa.org/nav.cgi?data/camp), if you're so inclined.

Best of luck to you!

[hikerbee]

Although I didn't read everyone's posts before posting this, I don't think anyone has mentioned the REI Joule yet. It's a new women's down bag that REI just released. I'll be using it for the beginning of my thru hike this year. I was thinking about the Marmot Helium 15* and the Mountain Hardwear 15*, but after some research, I learned the REI Joule has a EN comfort rating of 22*. The Helium's is just 28*, and Mountain Hardwear is 26*. And, the REI bag is cheaper to boot! I'm pretty short and will get the regular, but you can get a long version, which is 72 inches. My only concern would be quality, since I'm assuming both Marmot and MH would last longer... I haven't found any reviews on it yet, because it's so new.

And here's another tip: If you are a REI member and you sign up for REI Gearmail (sends you e-mails periodically of REI sales), then you'll get a 15% off coupon for any REI brand item! Although it may sound like it, no, I don't work for REI. Just something else for you to think about!

[skinewmexico]

Western Mountaineering / Feathered Friends - the gold standard in lifetime bags. Just make it fit your shoulders.

[Demeter]

I really like my Big Agnes down Roxy Ann. 15 degrees, picked it up on geartrade.com for $130. They cut their women's bags extra big. I'm 5'9" and can roll around, lay on my side. I paired it with the insulated air core mattress cos I need a very comfy nest to sleep in!

[Rozz]

I have my eye on the Roxy Ann as well. I'm 5'8 so glad to hear its suiting you well. Patiently waiting for a 20% REI member coupon as its $210 there. Your price was awesome! I need to scour for a better price now. Thx!

[SassyWindsor]

Just save up and spring for a top shelf Western Mountaineering down sleeping bag. Expensive, but well worth it.

[PinkRaven]

I'm 5'8" and I always get the men's bags. I like the extra room. Before bed, I fill up a nalgene with hot water and put it near my feet.
I have a lightweight 1kg back and a heavier synthetic -25F bag and a mega huge synthetic -40F bag. I sleep cold. I don't have much meat on me (5'8"/105 pounds).
I will be using my 1kg lightweight bag in the warmer sections and my -25F bag when the temperatures drop below 30F. I invested in a one-piece fleece suit that I'll be wearing at night in order to be able to use a lighter sleeping bag.
Pink Raven

[Lady Grey]

Since I'm on vacation this week I've had a chance to do some online research. I also visited our local EMS today, but they didn't have a great selection of bags. EMS does carry a couple of Western Mountaineering bags, but no Mont Bell, and the more I read I'm now thinking that Mont Bell's U.L. Super Spiral bags might be the way to go. I've read lots of positive comments about them and like the idea of a mummy with stretch. I'm thinking I might look for a sale and order one, since I can't find one locally. Would love to hear any pros or cons about the U.L. Super Spiral series!

[Blissful]

I love my Montbell but WM is also a good bag from what I've heard and seen. I like the roominess of the Montbell, it gives with you, esp if you tend to be s restless sleeper, and nice water repellent finish. I can compress it pretty good also.

[Saprogenic]

I would only recommend Wiggy's. The continous Lamilite filimant is like no other. I've had the 2-bag setup for some time now, put through rigorous use, and couldn't be happier. It can be permantly compressed, and instead of 'wicking' moisture/persperation, it evaporates through the fibers, always remaining dry and warm. Read more about it on the site, it's impressive stuff. Plus, all the bags are 30% off. http://www.Wiggys.com

[lillybruce]

I am going traveling in a VW from the UK to NZ. I have been looking for a good all seasons sleeping bag for a while now but havnt been able to find exactly what I am looking for. Remembering that money is fairly tight does anyone have any suggestions for where i can source these?